What went wrong?
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
What went wrong?
>>26187853
Overpresence of a story disallowing for heavily nonlinear gameplay.
Exactly the same shit that happened to the Fallout series.
>>26187853
You fogot Kalos exist?
>>26187853
not enough Pokémon.
>Skipping all those areas in Unova
Maybe that's why you're such a faggot. Unlike the other regions, Unova didn't force you to fucking walk through every avenue enjoying the force fed roses.
>>26187881
Tbh I'd much rather have a compelling story with linear gameplay than an open world with a weak-ass story.
>>26187853
Linear region aside, the Unova games are still my favorites. There's no such thing as a perfect Pokemon game. I accept the linearity of Unova is offputting to some, but the post game and the region's size more than make up for the straightforward main progression.
>>26187933
WHY.
NOT.
FUCKING.
BOTH.
>>26187933
And I'd rather have less of a story. Good thing there are gens that satisfy both of our interests.
>>26187916
Kalos isn't much better than Unova, but it's a bit better. You go through Lumiose several times, and back to Geosenge. These maps only illustrate the backtracking you have to do over the course of the game. Unova had basically zero.
>>26187938
I remember when that edit was posted. Many laughs were had.
>>26187932
The image accounts only for the path from your home to the Elite 4. The only area in Unova that's skipped is the Desert Resort.
>>26187938
top kek
>tfw it's true
GF thinks kids nowadays are retard.
They even said that, that's why Gen VI games are fucking eath.
>>26187933
I liked what Black and White did, it was different, but I'd like to have non-linear region again like Kanto.
>>26187953
This. In BW1 once you exit a city you're not gonna see it ever again, because there is no point.
>>26187957
But you have to go to the Desert Resort in B/W. Why isn't that on the map?
>>26187947
Because it wasn't the point of the comment I replied to. If I could chose to make the next games have both a compelling story and a non-linear gameplay, of-fucking-course I would.
>>26187951
It's almost like GameFreak actually knew people had different tastes!
>>26187953
IMO I hate how game designers use backtracking as a substitute for an open world, its a chore and isn't fun and actually feel MORE linear to me than actually having a straight point a to b.
>>26187978
Do you really have to? I don't remember BW1 that well.
>>26187953
I was pointing out the uploader outdated image.
>>26187976
You go back to certain cities for story-related reasons.
There's also special buildings and sometimes I just wanted to listen to the music.
>>26187953
>You go through Lumiose several times
Witch is blocked for half the game. Why do you want to to backtrack anyways? I though the point of non-linearity was the freedom to explore, not just going back to were you came from.
Why always going to the north?
Hope sun and moon E4 Is in the south, and the first town in the north
Sinnoh was such a god tier region.
The comfiest too. Sinnoh >Hoenn > Kanto = Johto > Unova > Kalos
>>26188068
Because of the perspective/camera. You see and enter buildings (including the League) from the south side, so the Victory Road must go from south to north.
>>26188088
>Kanto = Johto > Unova
>>26188007
BW haters confirmed to know jack shit about the Gen they hate so much.
>>26188068
Kalos League is at the east of Santalune City (aka Kalos' first gym)
>>26188106
If you disagree you are literally and objectivelly a pleb.
>>26188127
>>26188139
But wasn't he pretty much saying that?
>>26188093
Not true. The Victory Road simply has to have its exit not facing south. That's all.
>>26187953
>Unova had basically zero
You didn't play BW1 right? After N awakens Zekrom/Reshiram then you must get the other orb on Relic Castle, which it's located on Desert Resort. When you go the first time it only has two floors, but after N gets Zekrom/Reshiram more floors are available, making that a backtracking.
Unova 2 was great, though.
why can't they just make a game where you go to every region
even the shitty side-game regions
god just thinking about its potential gets me excited
>>26188158
You also had to go back to Lenora's gym to prevent Team Plasma from stealing the Dragonite fossil and the Orb that's located there. And later go to Dragonspiral Tower again after having been through Icirrus City once before.
>>26188174
>that retarded desert out of nowhere
I'll admit Unova was pretty fun. Victiny island and the bridge where I tried hatching a shiny Axew brings back good memories
>>26188181
Because it would take years to make. Because it would have to take place after every other game to that date. Because the story would probably make zero sense if all the problems regarding the Legendaries have already been resolved by the protags that came before you. Because it would be too much for any handheld to handle. Because... you get the point.
>>26188158
And since you love backtracking so much, after you beat the game for the first time you can go back yet again to get a Volcarona.
>>26188205
>playing pokemon for its story
lmao you faggot, you're the reason why postgame content is nonexistent
>>26188174
Unova would have been 1000% better had it not been for that disgusting Entralink area that took up the entirety of the central region. Maybe it would actually have made the desert's placement bearable. Seriously, nobody fucking used that shit.
>>26188200
And then out of nowhere Kalos Route 13 is a wasteland. Even worse is that you enter here from Counarine City, a city full of grass.
>>26188068
I like this idea a lot. Very obvious desu but still good
>>26188212
Shut up, the games have great stories (bar Kalos) that are definitely worth playing for. You're a fucking moron if you think story has anything to do with the lack of post-game. Isn't it a coincidence that the game with the most story also had the most post-game content? Or that the game with the weakest story also had the least amount of post-game content? Fuck off pleb.
>>26188238
oh god i don't care for a slavery allegory in a cockfighting game that the intended audience (preteens) will most likely miss, i just want cockfighting
(i'm cognizant of the dissonance i should be feeling for arguing over a children's game)
>>26188264
So fucking what? Still doesn't the fact that your half-assed "argument" is fucking shit.
>>26187938
kanto isn't really correct here though
the paths branch but they also all connect to each other
>>26188212
Then why did Gen 5 have a shit ton of post game? Specially compared to Kalos and Kanto's non-existent one.
>>26188224
Coumarine sits on a plateau so it blocks the moisture from rt 13, turning it into a desert
>>26187853
Well, you drew your maps wrong, friend.
>useless return to lilycove from mossdeep
>no return to relic castle after seventh gym
>no journey to celestial tower and back to mistralton
Additionally, there were a lot of places you could optionally explore in unova, like mistralton cave, the sea route west of nuvema, and all of eastern Unova.
Unova removed a lot of backtracking. This isn't Metroid: shit doesn't really change when you backtrack.
>>26188218
>he never entered his friend's game as a machop
>>26187953
>You go through Lumiose several times
This is not a positive.
>>26188200
>desert out of nowhere
>He hasn't read The Great Gatspy
>>26188218
Much as I love Gen 5, entralink was the worst gimmick of the series.
>>26188618
I did, once or twice, and that was it.
>>26188280
No-one wants to hear
>MUH SLAVERY
playing a fucking pogeymon game. We get enough of that type of shit in everyday life
>>26187853
>Unava
>linear
It's a fucking octagon dumbass
>>26188181
Because the leveling curve would be garbage
>>26188722
hexagon
>>26188308
Instead the main storyline was laughable short with only 11 towns and 10 routes and most of the routes are very shor, which is even less than Kanto. Also the post game isn't near as full as Sinnoh or G/S/C/HG/SS.
Kalos alone is bigger and more valiable than Unova, but have a not so good post game instead. But saying that Kalos post game is as bad as Kanto is really retarded.
Like the extra town, the more legends and the whole LeBelle story arc was worse than Gen 1 with Mewtu cave or Gen 3 with nothing besides the tower.
>>26187853
those lines lie though in a sense that gives a false impression
also if you actually play the games, they're actually pretty linear, with the only time being "non-linear" is being able to pick around up to 3 gyms on when to fight them at one point
simply "not following the road map" doesn't make the game non-linear, and I think only the pokemon fanbase thinks like this
>>26187993
Wait what
>>26187853
Funny to know that some people are really believing that the pokemon stories we got are "good". Especially since some are praising the unova story, even if it also have some flaws.
Why did Clay free the plasma grunts so easily. they did a crime so what was the reason for him to free them? What was the purpose of many teams first appearance. What had the dream dust(Plasma) or stealing pokedex data/taking over a power plant have to do with the actual storyline or why N suddenly left without any suprisement out of the league?
>>26189072
Linearity doesn't have anything to do with the gym quest, but more of how the region is build up to block routes or other areas or visiting optional areas. You walk outside of a city, see a roadblock and you know, that you need to come back later for that or suddenly walking through a completly optional route is making the region more believable than a simple walk from A to B.
In that case, unova (Bw1) is the most linear with only 3 areas outside the main route and these are the route right from Nimbasa, Mistralton cave and he route left from route 1.
And since some are putting Kalos on Unova level of linearity. Yes Kalos is still linear, but not ás much as Unova. Route 4 was optional , as well as Azure Bay, ther lost hotel, Terminus Cave, the route right of Lumiosea and a couple more of the routes you need to revisit again later to 100% them (Water part of route 8 an example).
>>26187853
Do this for the BW2 Unova and see the difference.
>>26187947
You can't have an open world and a compelling story without forcing the player into the next story-relevant area, unless you're playing some super dynamic RPG with a procedurally generated story.
>>26187853
So I was playing Yellow yesterday.
Having multiple paths to take seems nice until you meet 80-100 trainers with Pokemon within the same level range (25-35 to be precise). After clearing Saffron City and Routes 13-18, this is my team before Route 19 (place where there are even more ~30 level Pokemon).
What I'm trying to say is that open world in Kanto leads to mess. Shitton of routes are suited for lower levels so player would not be easily wiped, however when you clear most of these routes, the few remaining are just "mash A to win".On a side note, I was losing patience in Silph Co. Fuck this place and its 30 trainers with 10 different Pokemon.
Linear path gives less variety in multiple playthroughs but at least it has better level scaling so I'm not complaining.
>>26189062
>Instead the main storyline was laughable short with only 11 towns and 10 routes
The main storyline is 35 hours long, same as XY.
>Also the post game isn't near as full as Sinnoh or G/S/C/HG/SS.
Yes it is, GSC is just lazy as shit, Kanto is a boring hellhole with no remarkable land marks, only there because Iwata saved GF's incompetent ass.
Kalos was also pretty lazy, one shitty town with a mansion, not even a proper Battle Frontier, not even a visually interesting place, you fight on the goddamn staircase.
Sinnoh only had Battle Frontier as far as I remember.
>LeBelle story arc
Is that the Looker mission? I never finished because I didn't want to bother navigating through Lumiose.
>Kalos alone is bigger
Then why does it feel so much more smaller? The first route has literally nothing in it.
They have proper fucking 3D and every town in Unova still feels bigger, more alive, and more unique. I can't believe game freak is this fucking lazy.
>valiable
That's not even a word.
>>26188664
Honestly, it was a great idea in theory; but it didnt need a whole island to itself.
And what ultimately killed it for me was that it was tied to some shitty browser app.
Who in god's name thought that was a good idea?
I didn't even have internet when I first got black, but I've never met someone who actually used it I just bought an action replay to get all the exclusives because the browser bullshit was confusing, tedious, and broken.
>>26189373
Sinnoh had a whole new Island with three small towns, routes in between and a volcano with Heatran along with Giratina's hangout opening up.
>>26189341
The more I play and replay the games the more I feel Game Freak expects you to be constantly switching up your team with whatever you found on the nearby route you just got access to, instead of sticking with just six relatively-early-game mons (or, god forbid, just one, like your starter). The level curves start making a bit more sense that way (but not in the games that feature Johto, fuck that shit). My recent Red playthrough ended with none of my Pokemon reaching lv40 when I was already at the League gates, meaning my levels were roughly equal to the wild monsters in Victory Road.
>>26189258
that just means even as far as Kanto it is linear then
MUH HOT COFFEE
>>26187853
>Not flying to Pallet Town before surfing to Cinnabar Island
>>26189507
I've also come to this conclusion when I was reading about Bug types in Kanto. Caterpie and Weedle are available early, evolve quickly and have pretty bad stats (relatively to other evolved Pokemon). Perfect for early game and destined to be swapped later.
It's apparent when you compare Butterfree's stats to Blastoise's stats or even Rhyhorn's stats.
>Below 40 level at League
Jesus Christ. I expect to be within 45-50 level range at League.
>>26188264
>Kanto
>Good story
HAHAHA DUDE WHAT
>>26189736
There's a bit of a reward in store for sticking with Beedrill, though. Twineedle is an absolute monster of a move for gen 1 ingame, considering Bug was super effective on Poison in gen 1. Despite the bugs' low stats, Butterfree can also stay relevant with Sleep Powder and access to Psychic moves.
It's interesting to think about what design choices were made with the ingame experience in mind (pretty much everything in gen 1) and what was done more for the competitive crowd (occurs more and more in later gens)
>>26187853
Unova should've been a choose your own adventure style witha forked map like that
>>26188035
>Witch
>>26188218
I liked the feature, but I do agree that it made no fucking sense to put that shit in the middle of the map. A couple more routes, a city, a cave, a forest, whatever would've been better.
Still, Unova 2 was pretty good to me.
>>26187853
>Not including Gen 6 map
Exploration is fun
The Universe is complex
No chosen one crap
>all these people who can't accept eachother's opinions
It's down to personal taste at the end of the day, kids. I talk a good deal of shit about X and Y every once in a while but they still have plenty of fun to offer, and I have no problem with people who like them.
TL;DR stop being autistic, is just game
>>26192156
>stop being autistic
where do you think we are?
>>26188068
It's because it's the players natural inclination to go up/forward. To go south would feel like you're going back.
Two reasons
>jap kids got lost in Sinnoh and complained a ton
>they wanted to shove their shitty story they were so proud of down our throats
>>26188088
>Sinnoh
>Comfy
DUDE FORCED BACKTRACKING LMAO!!!
Mt.Coronet was stupid.
And fuck that bitch Fantina.
>>26187938
Kalos has you go back to Lumiose after a while, if anything it should be like this.
>>26192456
When the fuck do you ever backtrack in Sinnoh, you get Fly after the 4th gym.
>>26187938
>this 3d arrow on kalos
every fucking time
>>26192543
>Flying back to battle a bitch that didn't want to battle you the first time you were in her stupid city isn't baktracking? Ok got it.
>>26188238
>Isn't it a coincidence that the game with the most story also had the most post-game content?
Platinum and Emerald don't have the most story.
>>26188238
>Or that the game with the weakest story also had the least amount of post-game content?
RS and RBY, I would argue, don't have the weakest story by virtue of GSC existing.
>>26187938
And not that Hoenn and Sinnoh are still linear.
Only Kanto and Johto were not 100% linear, and even that was minor non-linearity except in the Gen 2 postgame.
>>26192645
*and note that
>>26189265
Not OP, but here's BW2 from memory.
OK, how is Hoenn not linear?
If I remember right, there is only one path to Wattson. From him, even though you can go back to older towns, you have to go to Flannery to progress. After that, you loop back to Norman to get Surf. With that, you can dick around a bit or go fight Winona, and then it's pretty much a straight shot to the Elite 4.
Hoenn might be a loopy line, but it is still a line. There are no forks like in Kanto and Johto.
>but you can go to optional places and explore
Unova has those as well.
So how is Hoenn fine when Unova is not?
>>26192693
You're right. People are just making a mistake between loops on the map equaling non-linear. Only Kanto and Johto actually let you do things in different orders. After that, despite Hoenn and Sinnoh being more interconnected than Unova and Kalos, all four have really only one order to do things in. Making all four of them equally linear. Hoenn and Sinnoh just have more backtracking.
>Caring about linearity in a level up based RPG that doesn't scale.
