Why do some fags act like 1000 pokemon is too many?
Is it gamefreak shills trying to lower peoples standards so they can be lazier?
I mean we don't even really have 721 if you count lines as a single pokemon, maybe like 250-300 or so lines.
Dragon Quest Monsters/SMT has a bigger Fully evolved roster than Pokemon currently even.
Only 70 new mons was a fucking joke with X/Y
>>25947506
A thousand is not "too many", it's "perfectly enough" if anything
>>25947553
If all 721 were single stage I might understand, but the presence of lines really makes the true number smaller than it is.
And honestly I hope it goes over 1000
>Only 70 new mons was a fucking joke with X/Y
>>25947579
We got LESS THAN HALF of what the previous gen gave us.
Fucking disappointment.
>>25947593
And in turn the designs of Gen 6 were more than twice as good as the ones of Gen 5.
>>25947593
And I thought Gen 4 was shit because they didn't include more new pokemon lines and instead added to many legendary pokemon. I couldn't imagine they could do worse,
>>25947619
There's only one good design from Gen 6, and it's Greninja.
72 new Pokémon was deeply disappointing.
>>25947619
Oh shit I woke up in another dimension and I didn't even realize it.
>>25947619
That's definitely fucking wrong.
>the gen 5 had bad designs meme
>>25947619
LOL NO, most were shit,
Gen 5 had A LOT of gems, it had a few stinkers like ice cream and trash but that's it really.
Goodra is the worst psuedo to date for example both in design AND utility.
>>25947619
This
Quality > Quantity
>>25947640
Literally my mom's dog is in the game
>>25947619
Qualityfags make me laugh.
Go do a Kalos-only run in X/Y sometime. There's literally only 1-3 new mons per route teeming with 10 other old mons in the mix. By the time you reach mountain Kalos that number drops significantly
And you are suffering massive delusion if you thought the condensed number brought only perfect mons.
>Chespin line
>Bunnelby line
>Skiddo line
>Furfrou
>Meowstic line
>Honedge line
>Aromatisse and Slurpuff
>Dedenne
>Goomy line
>the fucking KEY POKEMON KLEFKI
Hot diggity that's already a huge chunk of them.
>>25947773
>Chespin line
Literally the worst starter line in the history of mankind. There is a reason why the Chespin line (and especially Shitnaught) are some of the most reviled pokemon in the entire world.
>>25947773
>>Honedge line
stopped reading right there.
>>25947773
Don't remind me of these nightmares.
It is as if Nintendo and GameFreak can't manage to put quality and quantity in one game like they did with Gen1 and Gen3.
>>25947773
>All these turds
>People try to say G5 was worse when it not only had better designs but more than double the roster
X/Y really shit the bed in every form outside of graphics.
>>25947629
Of all the good designs you pick a bad one
>>25949457
There's only one kind of scum who would consider based Greninja "bad", and they're Chesnaughtfags. Leave, for your kin is unwelcome here.
>>25947654
>less automatically means better
I love this meme.
>>25947773
>not liking Meowstic
>not liking Honedge
>not liking Aromatisse
>not liking Goomy
>not liking Boo Boo Keys
Wow you have shit taste anon-kun
>>25947553
No 200,000 is perfectly enough.
>>25947654
In case of pokemon fuck no the more the more diverse the region is.
>>25949554
Yh we like them BUT WE WANTED MORE NEW POKEMON anon.
>>25947506
>Only 70 new mons was a fucking joke with X/Y
At least better than all the shit we got in gen V.
Also why the fuck would you count a line as a single pokémon?
>>25949554
they fucked goomy way too hard.
We could have gotten a Slug Bug/Dragon but nope they went with furbait the dinosaur
>>25947619
Gen 5 literally had pokemon for EVERYONE.
No matter what kind of trainer you were, you at least had 6 new pokemon that were perfect for you and the kind of team you like.
You can barely even make a full gen 6 team.
>>25949643
Hes another retarded Unovahater.
>>25949617
THIS! Holy shit. I don't hate Goodra because of an autistic poster on an anonymous imageboard. I don't hate Goodra because of how it looks or because it's a dragon or a pseudo. I hate Goodra with all of my being because it took away the opportunity to have an awesome slug dragon. I like Goomy, I love Sliggoo, FUCK GOODRA
Gens 1 and 2 were perfect for me as far as designs go, despite how useless a lot of gen 2 pokemon are aesthetically they were perfect. Every gen afterwards has had a few gems for sure but I'd love to see gamefreak try to go back to the more simplistic, inspired designs of the early gens.
>>25949643
>You can barely even make a full gen 6 team.
There are enough to make 5 full teams of fully evolved pokémon.
>>25947619
I like both really.
Shit like Clawitzer, Malamar, Aegislash, Tyrantrum, Pyroar, Diggersby, and Noivern are fucking based, but Unova had Excadrill, Bisharp, Gothitelle, Haxorus, Heidreigon, Excavaleir, and my personal favorite; Archeops.
It really just depends on how much they pay attention with designs.
>>25947506
>Dragon Quest and SMT has a bigger roster
And they are also much more forgettable
It's not that 1000 is too many per say, it's just a nice even base 10 number that is large. Once you go past 1000, where does it stop? Does it ever become too much for you?
Is 2000 pokemon not too much? 20000? 2 million?
>>25947506
Some probably are, but some are idiots who dont get the point of a Pokemon game, much less a NEW Pokemon game, while some are balancefags who think introducing new mons is low priority over fixing their old shitmon bro.
>Only 70 new mons was a fucking joke
Agreed. The ratio of new:old was fucking bad, too. The new mons weren't even 25% of the regional dex and so a lot of them weren't given a chance to shine.
Furthermore, it took away the flavor and identity of Kalos because its biomes were nothing noteworthy due to oversaturation of old pokemon. The distribution was also shit because while it sucked seeing species several times, it added to world building if their habitat range was believable--i.e., bird pokemon are expected to be capable of having a large range of feeding and breeding grounds but in Kalos, it's different species almost every route.
>>25947619
Not with abominations like Quiladin, Chesnaught, Delphox, Goodra and bland designs like Furfrou, Gogoat, Helioptile, disappointing performers like Pangoro. Fuck I can't even remember to list the other Gen 6 due to them being rarer and thus harder to use and avoid being forgettable than Gen2mons in Johto
>>25947654
Hasty generalization + false assumption. Johto only had 100 and yet had more shitmons than Unova. A lot of people also hated Gen 4's crossgens, which made up a big chunk of new Pokemon. See above for Kalos.
>>25947773
This, thank you. Except for the Honedge line.
>>25947506
>72 new pokemon
Plus what like 40 something megas. I think that counts for something.
>>25950080
Megas don't objectively count
>no dex entries
>no species
>can't sit in party as is
>can't sit in pc
>can't be traded over
>can't be used in contests
>can't be accessed in other ways like the amie, super training
>>25950063
>balancefags who think introducing new mons is low priority over fixing their old shitmon bro.
Why is balancing a game out such a bad thing? More than half of the entire roster is trash and there's no point of even using them in battle, why would you want to make this number bigger?
They should at least fucking balance fairy out before adding more shitmons and instant OU-tier shit.
>>25950178
They count for the purposes of having new pokemon to experience which is what everyone is bitching about. If they don't count, then all those shitty cross gen evos in Gen 4 don't countI wish it was that easy to pretend they don't exist
>>25950179
It's not a bad thing inherently. But face it, GF doesn't give a shit. Some pokemon were inherently made to be gimmick shitmons. It's their whole point and flavor. Why you chose to have Farfetch'd or Ledian as your bros, I don't know. But I honestly think Dunsparce and Spinda are cute but I'm not dying for them to be buffed to OU, nor would I give up the chance for a new pokemon game to actually feel new with a good sized dex and good ratio of new to old pokemon.
>>25950210
They still aren't objectively new pokemon. They're essentially formes. And this still means you go through using old pokemon mainly to access a temporary "new" pokemon
>>25950248
You go through old pokemon to experience cross gen evolutions but we generally consider those new pokemon. These forms are new things. Theres a distinct difference between a mega and it's original in terms of design, ability and stats. Those are new experiences. If they aren't worth a full new pokemon in terms of hype, then they should at least count as 3/5th.
>>25950229
I'm not really saying everything should be amazing competitively, but there are pokmon that need to learn moves just by a common sense perpective.
>Growlithe can't learn fucking Growl
Hell, I'd be fine with more cross-gen Evos than Megas because that would help buff Pokemon more then a Mega.
It's too many for one game I think. Kalos was already on the verge of overpopulation.
It was nice getting a wide range of mons for every new route, but I can see it becoming a problem at one point.
I think the bigger problem is squeezing all of the mega stones and other such shit into the games like the genie mirrors, the Dragon orbs and the dna splicer.
Cramming in all that crap to make sure gimmicks from past gens are still obtainable must be a psin.
>>25950291
>yay, Gen 6 has 80.6 new pokemon!!!!
You're worse then Gen 6.5 fags
>>25950210
Most of the cross gen evos are good, it's just that the bad ones are really fucking bad.
>>25950356
Well if it makes you feel better, I think 70 would have been fine. They should put more time into gameplay at this point than new pokemon.
>>25950367
Anon, pokemon is a monster collecting game. The entire point of a new pokemon mainline is to see, catch and use new pokemon. If we're getting 30 new pokemon diluted with ~500 old pokemon, I'll just play the damn old games or not at all
Gen 7 is gonna take us to 999.
Then hard reboot with Gen 8. Back to 001. New National Dex. New handheld.
>>25950365
We'd probably disagree on which ones are good and bad too.
I think Electivire and Magmortar are better than Electabuzz and Magmar.
Weavile was better than Sneasle.
Togewhatever was good. So was Leafeon. Gligar evo. Mamoswine. Porygoon Z.
I hate Magnezone, Rhyperior, Yanmega, Gallade, Jewpass, Dusknoir, Glalie evo, glaceon. Lickylicky is dumb but lickitung aint that great itself. Tangrowth is the same thing.
>>25950393
It's more than a monster collecting game. It's also a competitive turn based rpg. An adventure (though that sucks lately).
I would be happy with no new pokemon if they dramatically changed key elements of the game and did something different. And I know there are a lot of anon who feel the same way.
I could give two shits about whatever contrived regional dog, cat, bird, rodent, and bug they shoe horn next gen. I feel the same way about the forced legendary quotas.
>>25950463
>competitive turn based rpg
I fail to see how this is mutually exclusive from catching and using new pokemon
>dramatically changed key elements
They do. They're called spin-off games.
>whatever contrived regional dog (...)
Do you hate dogs having several breeds, as well? Did you hate having to identify different poisonous plants for camp? How about parallel and convergent evolution? Do you hate nature for giving us several birds?
Nature has actual niches and those are filled by different but similar creatures for every region/biome. New regions with those pokemon have good identities as they tend to become unique and not just another Kanto.
>>25950411
Pokémon don't do reboots.
Rebooting Pokémon is very stupid ideas.
>>25950582
>i fail to see how this is mutually exclusive
It's not and my post wasn't implying this. It was actually implying the opposite.
>They're called spin off games
You're being smug and ridiculous because we disagree on one thing. You think it's fine the direction of the games lately? Don't you get tired off the same 8 gyms, pokemon league, fight evil team trying to use legendary to take over the world thing?
>do you hate dogs having...
No I hate contrived design and quotas like having to have a regional dog, bird, cat, rodent, bug etc force design. Design should be inspired by better than contrivance imo. You know that was my argument but you chose to construct a straw man.
>nature has actual niches
I can't believe you took the time to type this bullshit out as an extended straw man. What a waste of effort. You're better than that, come on.
>>25949930
We hate your kind.
>>25950634
If you don't like familiarity and conservatism in your games you might as well drop the core games right now. They clearly aren't meant for you.
>>25950666
If you don't like the prospect of 70 or less new pokemon for the next generation, you may as well drop the core games now.
See we can both be pedantic.
>>25950623
>Pokémon don't do reboots.
>What is Hoenn?
They tried a hard reboot with Gen 3 but received immense backlash by doing everything the wrong way, they had to do damage control and backtrack to keep them from losing their Gen 1 and 2 audience. And now that we've seen Gen 5 knows how to soft reboot, they can find a good balance between both: Hard rebooting while staying extremely safe.
They'll just do a remake of Red and Blue but redesign everything while also plagiarizing themselves for a new generation.
Can we go back to 151?
>>25950681
I don't mind it honestly.
But even then it's not the same. I don't mind 70 new pokémon, but we have never gotten that few before so I can see why some are salty.
Being disappointed that pokémon don't do drastic changes is a whole different thing, if that was a big concern for you you might as well have stopped after gen III when it was clear it wasn't going to change.
>>25950705
No, but you can.
>>25950634
I had hopes and dreams we could choose trainer classes and have sidequests that unlock certain pokemon like a beautiful species given access to you only if you win contests, or if you successfully bred a number of pokemon, or if you worked as a ranger for a number of days, etc. I was twelve. Now I'm 24 ans honestly gave up overhyping myself and having high expectations from gamefreak.
At this point, I'm happy to have them stick to the tried and tested formula and actually do it well.
>>25950776
There was much more content, postgame, and exploring. Gen 6 axed a lot of features and lacked postgame and exploration. It'd be nice if they at least had those things. This started over disagreement over there needing to be more than 70 new mons. Since we both don't mind, why are we arguing?
>>25950809
If Gen 6 has been any indicator, the formula will be the same but it won't be done well.
>>25947506
And of those DQM roster hundreds are fucking recolors. Don't be greedy
>>25947773
TAKE IT BACK! Meowstic is way better than lots of gen 1,2,3, or what ever gen's pokemon. I agree that more pokemon should have been made and that the quality wasn't worth having half the pokemon of the past gen but meowstic is an +A design and I'll autostically defend them to the end
>>25950818
>Since we both don't mind, why are we arguing?
I just saw somebody making a claim that they were dissatisfied with how new generations always have some pokémon fill certain roles, as well as the bones of the game plot being similar. Which is something I think it is dumb to be mad about.
>Quantityfags
>>25950869
Not mad. I just don't like it. This site is like 90% opinions.
I'm assuming you're the anon who went at lengths to explain that there are different animal species and some shit about identifying plant species when camping...which is such a ridiculous stretch from someone saying "I'm not a fan of regional dogs, birds, or bugs".
I've been seeing a lot of this kind of argument lately which amounts to: "I don't like your opinion so I'm going to mention that it's a reality that things are the way they are." Yeah of course they are, that's why we're having a conversation about it in the first place.
>>25950947
Nope. That was me.
Even then you also posted at length about me posting strawman when in fact you did hate "regional niche designs" and proceeded to call me about calling you hating diversification of species so whatever
>>25950943
Watch me BTFO every Qualityfag in one swish.
While you argue Quality > Quantity, you don't realize that quality is subjective.
More Pokemon means overall more widespread appeal, because everyone has different tastes. If there's more options, then more people are happy.Keep in mind a lot of people hate the Kalos designs.
>>25950943
>stagnationfag
>just a fag in general
>>25950975
That's a strawman again. Do you not understand this or just don't want to concede any point?
Me saying I don't like regional quota mons, doesn't mean I hate diversity of pokemon. I think you know that.
>>25950947
>I'm assuming you're the anon who went at lengths to explain that there are different animal species and some shit about identifying plant species when camping...which is such a ridiculous stretch from someone saying "I'm not a fan of regional dogs, birds, or bugs"
I'm not him. But I agree that I find it interesting seeing different pokémon fill the same niches.
>I've been seeing a lot of this kind of argument lately which amounts to
Literally always been like that. If you can't handle people attacking your opinion there are better places for you to visit.
>>25951014
Okay we clearly are working with different "diversity" here.
You hate regional birds because you want an entirely different pokemon altogether.
I like diversity among certain regional niches like having Pidgeot, Staraptor, Unfezant, Talonflame -OR- Crobat, Swoobat, Noivern so we have options and not just using the same mon over and over for a certain role, whether competitively or worldbuilding-wise
>>25951031
>Literally always been like that. If you can't handle people attacking your opinion there are better places for you to visit.
That's dumb man. Grow up. If you can't handle me pointing out how inconsequential stating the obvious is, then maybe you should leave. Just kidding. That's stupid. I like having my opinion attacked, that's why I visit this site. But it's much more interesting when there's a counterpoint to be made besides, "well that's the way it is"...because again, that's just pointing out the obvious.
>>25950979
Double edged sword; while it's true the more widespread the selection is the likelier it is there's something for everyone, there's also the fact that most of the other designs will not appeal to your particular tastes. For every Gen 5 Pokemon I like, I can think of two or three I dislike or don't care about.
>>25947619
>>25947773
>shitting on pokemon designs
A reminder to get a load of this and be grateful for what you have
>>25951069
Noivern is not filling the same niche as crobat or swoobat.
It's exactly that I want different pokemon altogether, or at least that's not the only reason. I think filling these kind of quotas or check off the box "similar niches" leads to contrived uninspired design. A lot of these regional early route bird, dog, or bug have been really boring redundantly designed pokemon imo. I'm ok with you disagreeing.
Competitively, most of these similar niche mons function entirely differently. They only fill an ecologically similar niche but often have different typing and some go on to be competitive (talonflame) while others end up only being useful for early game story.
I think you can have ecological and competitive diversity without having to have things like pikaclones.
>>25951092
Because a lot of people like familiarity? And I'm not trying to be facetious now but checking out spin-offs is not a bad idea if you don't like how the core titles are made.
As for regional niches both me and the other guy has posted why we like them.
>>25951146
I dig ghost cat, crocodile dundee, and Rudolph San Diego
>>25951157
Well the other guy mentioned diversity. Familiarity and diversity are opposite.
A lot of people like the familiarity, sure. A lot of people criticizes these same things.
I was actually thinking about trying a Mystery Dungeon game. The thing is Pokemon core games are probably my favorite games but I think that makes me even more critical of them. I want the core game to retain features from past titles that were great while also changing things for the better.
>>25951230
>Well the other guy mentioned diversity. Familiarity and diversity are opposite.
Not necessary. Regional bids are a familiar niche, but they can still be diverse.
Same shit with having to beat 8 gyms and a league as you complained about earlier, that's only the bare bones and you can still put in a lot of different content.
>>25950005
>Once you go past 1000, where does it stop? Does it ever become too much for you?
Why does this matter?
Who cares WHEN DOES IT STOP?
>>25951280
>you can put a lot of different content.
Which would be great. I'd be fine with the formulaic pokemon league if they added something else to do. I favor larger wilderness sections and quests that open up the deeper sections in the wilderness where different pokemon can be found. GF has the resources to do this. Because I'm saying this, does that mean I'm going to throw a tantrum because GF doesn't and stop playing the games? No. I'm just saying I'd like it better.
>>25951154
Like I said
>competitively
OR
>worldbuilding-wise
And you throw "contrived" a lot. At least provide examples of concepts you think aren't.
Besides, while they may have revisited a concept, it's not exactly technically the same. Gyarados and Milotic share themes but one is about strength and the other is about ability. Noctowl is the night to Pidgeot's day. Staraptor is physical, Talonflame is priority and with Fire.
Beautifly and Dustox feature branching evo, something not found in Butterfree and Beedrill of Gen 1; while Mothim features sexual dimorphism and doesnt even have pupal stage. Gen 2 had nothing altogether similar and Gen 5's does not share the body structure/metamorphic development. Gen 6 had several patterns.
Even the pikaclones you bash all featured the highlights of each gen
>Pikachu and Raichu
Template; also the only one that evolves
>Pichu
Breeding/baby Pokemon
>Plusle and Minun
Double battles and abilities
>Pachirisu
Sexual dimorphism iirc
>Emolga
I give you this one. It's a bit iffy but hey, /flying type
>Dedenne
fairy type
>>25950179
>They should at least fucking balance fairy out
Fairy is fine outside of of it fucking Bug over once again.
>>25950411
>Then hard reboot with Gen 8. Back to 001*. New National Dex. New handheld.
*Pokemon from previous games exist as paid DLC, for $2.99 you get a pack of 6 random old gen pokemon that cannot be traded
>>25950836
No it doesn't?
It has some slime recolors, that's fucking it.
Have you even played the Monster games?
Only the main series does recolors.
>>25950943
Gen 5 had more quality designs then gen 6.
I'd rather have BOTH quality and quantity, I know not to expect every pokemon to be a gem.
Although I will say Ice Cream and Garbage are truly shit tier
>>25951230
>Familiarity and diversity are opposite
Not necessarily. You can have a basic concept that's easy to grasp and still have differences in them, though.
Dragons as a type are diverse but we are pretty much familiar with their characteristics. We all know what birds are and yet we have different ones based on different birds performing different functions competitively but having similar ecological niches
>>25951352
Meant to say beauty for Milotic
>>25951352
Some examples of what I mean.
contrived:
Swellow. It's a pretty boring design probably brought about by the need to have a regional early route bird.
Unfezant. Pretty boring again. Could have been a 2 stage mon or perhaps even benefited from being a later route mon. Because it was Unova's early route bird, it followed the 3 stage pattern.
Plusle and minun. Doubles battles and abilities didn't necessitate the most egrarious pikaclones.
I don't consider Pichu a pikaclone. It's a part of Pikachu's evolutionary line so of course it looks like pikachu.
Pachirisu is squirrel. It would be great IMO if it was it's own unique squirrel species instead of piggy backing it's design and typing from pikachu.
Same with Emolga. It's a flying squirrel. That alone should be enough inspiration to make it's own pokemon. Not every rodent needs to become a regional pikaclone. It'd be great if they were their own unique design.
Dedenne a shit. Looks like a fat chinese pikachu. Completely uninspired.
>>25951438
Well clearly we'll have to agree to disagree as this is very polarizing. Especially since I would personally praise gen7 to the high heavens if it pulls a BWdex.
Counterparts, rivals, patterns, parallelisms and themes really get me up so yeah.
Also you have put your point of "contrived" well but you still havent given ideas that aren't
>>25951338
I'm all for more elaborate dungeons. But I don't see how that's a dramatic change like you spoke of.
>>25951438
Swellow is pretty, and your point against Unfezant doesn't make any sense. Regional birds have never had a set amount of evolutions.
It was a 3 stage line because they wanted it to be one.
I do agree that pikaclones are quite shit though.
>>25951542
>But I don't see how that's a dramatic change like you spoke of.
That'd be a topic of a later thread.
>Regional birds have never had a set amount of evolutions
True. They have gone the route of 3 stages lately and I tend to think this is because they want the regional bird to be special and 2 stages is boring. The problem is that they don't really know what to do with 3 stages. To be fair, Pidgeot definitely doesn't need 3 stages.
>>25951574
>True. They have gone the route of 3 stages lately and I tend to think this is because they want the regional bird to be special and 2 stages is boring. The problem is that they don't really know what to do with 3 stages. To be fair, Pidgeot definitely doesn't need 3 stages.
I think it just shows that the niches aren't as rigid as you might think. Like Talonflame being Fire instead of Normal. Having regional niches doesn't mean that they can't be flexible and diverse.
>>25951645
Talonflame was good. Yes having those patterns doesn't mean it will always lead to poor designs but if the designers don't particularly have a great idea it does force them to make uninspired designs like Unfezant and the Lilipup line (3 stages of the same pokemon?!). I know we disagree and I'm fine with that but I contend that Pokemon like Talonflame are well designed in spite of these patterns and not because of them.
>>25951706
Lilipup doesn't even fill a regional niche. Again, it's a 3 stage mon because they wanted it to be one.
