What happened to videogames?
X/Y was made for children, dont act surprised its dumbed down to the point where its unplayable.
>>25929248
I hope you're not trying to suggest that caves in Gen 1 were complex or fun. They were the worst part of the game.
>>25929273
Gen 1 was also for children
Did children become dumb?
>>25929248
in gen 2 the cave wasn't even there.
>>25929284
>Did children become dumb?
Speaking as a former teacher, yes.
>>25929248
Gen 1 is told from the perspective of a child, so it plays up how confusing the world can be for such. Gen 6 is told from the perspective of a teenager, so it plays up how arrogant teenagers are by making everything look easier than it probably really is.
>>25929284
> Did children become dumb?
Yes
Yeah man, what gives?
>>25929301
That means it's not about "hurr it's for children"
It means they are lazy fucks
When things are too hard and it's easy to get lost, Japanese children start to feel bad ): so devs are streamlining the experience into something that everyone can enjoy c:
>>25929290
Apparently Nintendo ran a test by having young kids play the first Super Mario Bros and almost all of them died at the first Goomba.
So yeah.
>>25929248
Reminds me of the cave in Gen 5 that really only houses Stone Edge's TM.
>That's Gen 5 for you
>Gen 6 challenges you to walk in a doorway to find Mewtwo, a Pokémon with a mega more powerful than God
>>25929289
>gen 10 is a simple but neverending slog
>gen 30 switches rooms and routes and shit so you keep forgetting where you are
I just want to say fuck caves. Not in gen 1 specifically, in all the games. No one likes them, they're zubat-fested, strength boulder-puzzle, maze bullshit. No one would complain if all the caves were replaced with contained forests and had the same pokemon.
>>25929352
repellent, dumbass
The problem is Game Freak decided to do what Walt Disney said not to do which is patronize kids and think of them as inferior and stupid. Why shouldn't you do this? Because kids aren't that dumb and when kids see that a game has be designed to be too easy they won't play it or buy it. Why? Because they'll give the typical response that "its for babies".
>>25929333
I should say it's an actual post-game legit dungeon btw for Stone Edge.
>>25929352
They could probably keep caves if they just gave it a special floor tile where encounters happen like the tall grass from outside so that you don't end up getting into random battles every 4 steps.
Caves have never been good in any way. Anyone who says that they were challenging in Gen 1 and easy now are retards. You might as well become a professional reviewer for Barney games and rank them by difficulty. The problem isn't if they've become easier or not. It's the fact that they were never good.
>>25929378
Yeah, turning them into a walking simulator and removing the gameplay makes them good. You should make indie horror games.
>>25929287
You don't get a free Mewtwo though.
>>25929290
How do I raise a kid to not be a retard?
>>25929350
Gen 30 actually becomes like the Dark Souls series where you have absolutely no idea where to go half the time.
>>25929352
>waahh, why can't everything just be a straight line?!
The game has repels. It's not exactly like they're a big financial investment seeing as repels are cheap and the game throws money at you.
>>25929352
>>25929430
You know, caves and forests generally fill the same role in Pokémon as the RPG style "dungeon." Problem is caves are more annoying because whereas forests have grass, the entirety of caves is one big encounter-fest.
>>25929248
Graphics got better
>>25929466
How was New Londo and visiting the Graveyard pleb?
>>25929445
>How do I raise a kid to not be a retard?
Teach them that hardwork and performance go hand in hand. Don't simply praise them for being intelligent or just for trying. If they're naturally smart, then they have to be pushed to their limits, if their of average intelligence, dedication and experience can be on par with natural talent.
Now a days people go for the extremes. So kids are either pampered for being smart, so when they reach their first wall in education, the crumble and become apathetic and shitty. If their never pushed to give 110% and are told just trying is enough, then they never push themselves to develop further.
>>25929486
Classic Gen IV+ white knight jumping to conclusions without fully understanding what's being discussed.
>>25929352
they're supposed to be tedious. thing is, these days, developers should be able to elicit trepidation in a more fun way.
>>25929248
You have to go through all of this to get to Mewtwo, you dumbfuck.
>>25929248
Color
>>25929486
>>25929523
Same, clueless, fag.
>>25929248
Cerulean Cave was the ENTIRE post game in RBY. Beating the Elite 4 didn't unlock anything else, just one dungeon with one legendary encounter.
XY post game had Terminus Cave with Zygarde, Mewtwo, Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres roaming encounter, the Looker quest, and the Battle Maison. But you wanna stomp your feet and complain that you didn't get another, BIGGER dungeon just for Mewtwo.
>>25929472
I never said a straight line. Forests don't have to be that either.
>>25929301
Why do the caves in XY look so much better than ORAS
>>25929472
Nlobody's saying caves are too hard. They just aren't fun. Nobody walks into Rusturf Tunnel and goes "Oh boy! This is my favorite part!"
>>25929565
The only difference between caves and forests are that Pokemon can appear anywhere in caves. The annoying encounters can be completely avoided with repels, or they can be reduced slightly with the Cleanse Tag or O-powers. Also gen 5 and 6 had dust clouds and ambushes to make some encounters more interesting.
>>25929287
>Speaking as a former teacher, yes.
Tell us more.
>>25929517
No, they're not. Games aren't supposed to be tedious. Caves, like the dungeons in JRPGs, are supposed to add tension by making it so that you don't know when you'll be able to resupply or when you'll encounter a boss while giving you risk-vs-reward choices of exploring to try to find treasure at the expense of wearing down your party with random battles. They could be fun. They just aren't.
I'm not even sure I could point out exactly what doesn't work with caves in Pokemon compared to other JRPG dungeons. Maybe it's the exp scaling or the fact that team members level individually, so that you don't feel like your'e constantly getting stronger while in them. I don't know. But they'd definitely be more fun if the whole floor wasn't an encounter are and if they had better puzzles than "push rock into hole".
>>25929582
Rusturf Tunnel is literally a straight line, it's only purpose is being an optional shortcut. If you're going to talk about caves, talk about Victory Road, Ice Path, Mt. Silver, Seafloor Cavern, Mt. Coronet, etc.
>>25929622
>But they'd definitely be more fun if the whole floor wasn't an encounter are and if they had better puzzles than "push rock into hole".
Older Pokemon caves actually did this. The "push rock into hole" stuff started with gen 5.
>>25929647
No, it didn't. That's the only kind of puzzle there was in Gen 1. The only variant was "push rock onto button" and there were like 3 of those in the entire game.
>>25929655
Seafoam Islands involved you pushing rocks into holes to stop the fast currents so you can surf to Articuno. Seafloor Cavern had more complex strength puzzles that required you to enter a room from a particular entrance.
>>25929466
I kinda would like that.
More focus on the adventure aspect of Pokemon.
>>25929711
Also, Ice Path in GSC involved you pushing rocks to into holes to make it possible to get to the other end of an icy floor.
>>25929711
The Seafoam island puzzle is just another "push rock into hole" puzzle. Even if the two rocks you do that with block the water flow, you're just pushing them into holes. You don't even have to decide what hole to push them in. You can only push them into one hole and it's always a few feet away from the rock.
And that thing from Seafloor Cavern where you have to enter a room from a particular entrance is in every pokemon game. Even in Gen 1. That's not a puzzle. That's just a mechanic that limits when you can solve the same rock-pushing puzzle from before.
I kind of like the sliding puzzles from the ice caves (which Gen 1 didn't have). But other than that, there have never been good puzzles in Pokemon caves. It's not a new thing. It's mostly just pushing rocks and it's always been just pushing rocks. And that's after you get Strength. Early caves don't even have puzzles. You just walk while getting pestered by bats every few steps.
>>25929536
you're retarded mate
>>25929767
Even if the puzzles are simplistic, it's still more interesting than a regular forest or water route. The Pokemon encounters are a non-issue because the game gives you a cheap and easy way to completely avoid them.
>>25929806
They really aren't interesting at all. And removing the battles entirely should never be a solution. If you're going to do that, all you end up with is the puzzles, which are way to simplistic to carry the cave by themselves. In that case, why have a cave in the first place? At least in forests, you can try to sneak by avoiding spending too much time in the grass instead of just removing random encounters entirely. That's much better. Water routes aren't that great either, but there's usually a lot less of those.
>>25929284
This generations children are so much more stupid than the kids in the past.
>>25929518
What was the point of Pokemon Village? When I saw it on the map I thought it was going to be some Mystery Dungeon shit like a hidden Pokemon society, but it was just a fucking field of flowers with a few Pokemon standing around and goofy-ass music. What a disappointment.
>>25929847
>removing the battles entirely should never be a solution
they aren't removed entirely, you don't even know how repellent works, shut up
>>25929622
>Games aren't supposed to be tedious
yes they are
>>25929536
If you wanted a (you) just ask.
>>25929248
It's all part of the illuminati's plan to dumb down society. They're making us think that the minimal use of ours brains is a huge chore when we spent our time leisurely, so they use that as an excuse to suction out any effort needed by the player. It's going to not only affect our time of relaxation, but how we interact with jobs, our friends, everything. It's going to make it all the more easier to control a society that doesn't use their brains.
>>25929445
>How do I raise a kid to not be a retard?
Breed with a Jewish woman.
>>25929891
Yes it does. Do you know how it works? It removes all battles against wild pokemon of a lower level than your leading pokemon. Unless your leading pokemon is in the middle of that cave's specific level range, it will either remove them all and make it a pointless walking simulator, or remove none of them and be useless.
>>25929287
Cerulean Cave wasn't in GSC because they were quickly shoving Kanto into the game. Kanto isn't the focus of GSC. And when Morimoto lovingly remade the games he did include Cerulean Cave among other formerly cut Kanto locations.
>>25929993
You can use the level of your leading Pokemon to regulate how many battles you want from 0 to all
>>25929320
Uhh yeah. That's why it's the first enemy. You learn the rules as the game progresses.
>>25929993
>pointless walking simulator
Do you use the same excuse to forego Repels on Hoenn's water routes and then shout "TOO MUCH WATER 7.8/10" ?
Besides, caves have lower encounter rates than grass.
>>25929926
>>25929248
The cave layout is almost the same but in 3D tho
>>25929445
Step 1: take a psych course
Step 2: figure out what you want to instill in them with your understanding of psychology.
>>25930120
It isn't, though, it's a single room in XY.
>>25929430
>They could probably keep caves if they just gave it a special floor tile where encounters happen
IF ONLY THERE WERE SOME WAY TO TURN OFF RANDOM BATTLES RIGHT?
Oh hey are we bitching about downward trends in Pokémon games? I'll just leave this here.
>>25929284
Yes, they can't have any difficulty in games or they leave the series
Holy shit, X/Y sucks
>>25930145
Oh, you are right, I'm confusing with the first route
>>25929352
Zubat evolves into Golbat who evolves itno Crobat so it's worth it
>>25929395
And yet you add any difficulty at all and they give up
>>25930173
Ugh, the gym leaders in XY never go beyond 3. Why? It's like them using one single time wasn't easy enough, we have them outnumbered 2 to 1, and megas to boot. Instead of getting more challenging as the game proceeds, it actually gets easier. I despise XY.
>>25929352
>No one likes them
I like them I just wish they had better puzzles and were more appealing visually.
>>25930227
>we will never have five Pokémon by the sixth Gym like Emerald again
>>25930315
The number of the Elite 4 carries also poses a problem. That one extra Pokemon seemed to make it all the more challenging, especially if your team struggled against the certain type you were battling against. I'm surprised the champion had a full set team in XY unlike anyone else in the game.
>>25930173
>GSC's leaders and E4 use a total of 12 new Pokemon
>Lance uses 0
>DP's Fire-type distribution
>XY in general
>>25930180
>leave the series
ah ah good joke
>>25930397
Wasn't a joke. Tons of kids now a days leave series just because of a mild difficulty. In fact kids like easy games, look at how popular COD is
>>25930397
Is that the Twitch Plays Pokémon team?
>>25930433
COD isn't popular because it's easy, it's popular because kids think they're playing "mature games for mature people such as themselves"
>kids leaving Pokemon
again [citation needed], unless they're at that teenager phase "too cool for pokemon gonna play some Colladuti" this never happens, Pokemon is one of the most popular game franchises in the world
>>25930541
It's popular with kids because it's easy. If they made it hard kids would leave
>>25930643
no, also if they're bad they'll probably gring levels until they can progress the story
>>25929248
Honestly I think the poor level design in X and Y is not really indicative of the series recently overall. B/W and B2/W2 had pretty good level design, I think they just fucked up in X and Y for whatever reason. (Maybe it was rushed, maybe they focused too much on other areas of the game who knows?)
If X and Y had better level design it would have been an absolute masterpiece in my opinion. I am really optimistic for S/M because if the level design returns to where it was before X and Y, they have the potential to be god-tier games.
>>25930678
My then-13-year-old brother played ORAS, and was underleveled by the time he got to Steven (because I told him to turn the Exp. Share off at the start of the game) and he just powered through with his awful in-game team at ten levels below with Revives instead of grinding. I imagine a kid who can't do that would quit before grinding.
>>25930227
>Ugh, the gym leaders in XY never go beyond 3.
Neither did Gen 5. What, did you think the NEVER GO PAST 3 POKEMON EVER joke about Gen 5 was a lie?
>>25930700
>my anecdotal evidence proves my theory
>>25930727
Well then what "real" evidence do you have?
>>25929582
>>25929582
>not plowing through the slog of early game until Risturf Tunnel where you find a Whismur to fug its giant asshole as soon as possible
>>25930541
>>25930643
It's neither, they play COD because their friends are playing it and they play online together.
>>25930699
XY's isn't even that bad, it just has some real duds.
People often overlook the dungeons and routes in kalos that were good.
>Reflection Cave
>Glittering Cave and it's unique perspective and mechanics.
>Terminus Cave
>Frost Cavern
>All the autumn routes
>route 8 (cliff by the shore)
>route 9 and 17 (Riding pokemon routes)
>>25930700
> I imagine a kid who can't do that would quit before grinding
no because a kid or a casual would grind at least 10 levels anyway wheter it's hard or not
see for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH1HDGzgjjA&nohtml5=False
>>25930734
none, in fact I honestly agree with you, but people using anecdotal evidence as real evidence really grinds my gears
>>25929558
I never thought I'd see the size of X and Y's post game in an argument defending it
>>25929847
>simple puzzles are less interesting than no puzzles
>>25929870
Agreed. But that's Xand Y's specialty
>>25929517
Very well put.
>>25930757
I agree with this, but the riding pokemon routes were slow, tedious and shit. Doesnt deserve to be on that list of "not duds"
>>25929899
>opinion
Standard for games have come pretty low, where "difficulty" is now only for veterans or games that announce themselves as difficult
>>25929518
/thread
This is why /vp/ is a containment board. Nothing but man children fighting over what version of a kids (a game intended with children in mind) game is better.
>>25929518
That's its own dungeon, though. You have to go through it as part of the main game. It'd be like saying Moltres has a big dungeon in RBY because they threw it toward the end of Victory Road.
