>Game Freak creates two Pokémon as counterparts to one another
>doesn't treat them equally
Jynx, Electabuzz, and Magmar.
Smoochum, Elekid, Magby.
????????, Electivire, Magmortar.
Mega Beedril. No Mega Butterfree.
Whimsicott gets fairy. Lilligant stays grass.
>>25861230
how the fuck is jynx a counterpart for electabuzz and magmar?
>not a version exclusive
>not catchable in the wild in debut game
>two types compared to electabuzz and magmar's one type
>different gender ratio
if you thought they were counterparts, it's your own retarded fault
>>25861230
Jynx not getting an Evo was likely due to them not wanting to touch it again after the skin colour issue.
>>25860935
Butterfree / Beedrill
Gyarados / Milotic
Dusclops / Banette
>>25861273
>next to eachother in the dex
>same primary typings as the legendary birds
>learns Ice Punch to match Electabuzz's Thunderpunch and Magmar's Fire Punch
>only available in the wild in Japanese Blue, just like Electabuzz in Red and Magmar in Green/US Blue
>>25860935
I KNOW, RIGHT? DURANT IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN HEATMOR.
Why are you fucks so impatient?
People were saying the same things about sableye/mawile and gallade/gardevoir before oras
>>25861273
But Jynx was catchable in Japanese Blue, anon. Electabuzz and Magmar were not, only in Red and Green Japanese.
Also, besides Hitmonchan, Jynx, Electabuzz and Magmar were the only pokemon to get Ice Punch, Thunderpunch, and Fire punch respectively. And why would Jynx get a pre-evo in Gen 2 along with Electabuzz and Magmar?
>>25861303
>2 water sneks
>they must be counterparts!
Kill yourself famitsu
>>25861341
Jynx also got a pre-evo along with Hitmons, Pikachu and Jigglypuff desu
>>25861360
>both sneks that evolve from weak fish
>both have literally the exact same stats, just reshuffled
>>25861370
The 3 in pic related got pre-evos, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan and the newly added Hitmontop got pre-evos, it wasn't just a coincidence Jynx got one with Electabuzz and Magmar
>>25860935
>Xerneas gets a useless extra form
>Yveltal didn't
>Yveltal is dual-typed
>Xerneas isn't
>Primal Groudon becomes dual-typed
>Primal Kyogre is still pure Water-type
>>25861230
I think of Magmar and Electabuzz being counterparts and Jynx and Mr. Mime being counterparts.
![d200712cf2b1ad1b698de6dc4f7e9eb1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nTDmCF2.jpg "d200712cf2b1ad1b698de6dc4f7e9eb1[1].jpg")
Not totally the case, but:
Not second type, not exclusive male evolution, not Mega,.....not fanarts, being Gothfan is suffer.
Jynx went with Magmar and Electabuzz.
Mr. Mime and Sudowoodo are more counterparts now.
>>25861230
Why would Lilligant get a Fairy typing? At least Whimsicott getting retype makes sense.
>>25861412
Good. If it became Water?Ice it gets shitty AF weaknesses. What else would it become?
>>25861429
>Gothorita
>no fanarts
>Gen 3 - Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir
>Gen 4 - Gallade
>Gen 5 - Gothita, Gothorita, Gothitelle
>Gen 6 - Mega Gardevoir, Mega Gallade
>>25861360
>pathetic fish pokemon, one weak, one ugly
>become powerful, respected and iconic aquatic serpents, one very strong and associated with ideas of destruction (lake of rage), one with beauty and elegance (statues in Kalos chateau)
>both appear in times of conflict, one to destroy further, one to put a stop to it
>same BST and stats but different distro
>not counterparts
>>25861477
Gothitelle
>>25861328
>so impatient
>magmortar/electivire was 6 years ago
>still no jynx-evo
>>25861516
>tfw they add Mega Jynx in SuMo
The forgotten mouse
>>25861230
>Lilligant stays grass.
What did you want her to become exactly? Just throw some arbitrary typing because you're autistic.
Also Jynx isn't a counterpart to Electabuzz and Magmar.
>>25861360
Gyarados and Milotic is one of the most obvious cases of counterparts in the franchise, you buffoon.
>>25861516
You're an idiot.
>>25861479
Not counterparts. Do you also think that Lucario and Zoroark are counterparts? Retard.
Everybody forgot Banette/Dusclops
Really got mad about this.
>>25861360
As if the weakest fish evolving into one of the most intimidating strong pokemon and the ugliest fish evolving into one of the most beautiful pokemon wasn't enough.
>>25861449
Because dryads.
The Fairy addition is probably being saved for Mega Lilligant.
>>25861493
Plus Magikarp is found in almost all water while Feebas is only in a few changing squares.
>>25861782
Why does Smogon have some Pokemon listed with their secondary types first?
>Skarmory and Mantine
>Skarmory can't be toxic'd and has no x4 Weaknesses
>Mantine gets a shitty baby that does nothing
It's been remedied by Gen 6 a lot, but
>Scyther gets an evo
>Pinsir doesn't
At least they got Megas at the same time and they're both pretty viable.
>>25861632
Sandshrew was Ekans' counterpart, ya goob
>>25861829
Oh, shit I'm blind.
I'm sorry.
>>25861476
Water/Water
dual STAB on Origin Pulse, 4x damage from grass and electric but 4x resistance to fire, ice, water and steel
>>25861859
Luckily they made Heracross as a new counterpart to Pinsir, and they both got megas
>>25861859
Pinsir is more a counterpart to Heracross, what with the whole rhino beetle/stag beetle thing. It's the Rokusho to Heracross's Metabee, the Beetler to its Rhinoggin.
>>25861479
Gothita's counterpart is Solosis and your image does not accurately express any emotion so i don't know what you're getting at
>>25861782
>Atk 125
>SpDef 125
>>25861893
It's too highlight aggression vs becalming (stall?)
>>25861864
Silly anon, Sandshrews counterpart is Diglett
>Digletts fast as fuck but dies to a single poke
>Sandshrew is physically tanky and stronger but slow as shit
>>25861893
Yes. One is the offensive pokemon, the other is the defensive.
>>25861429
>>25861479
Gothitelle is closer to an Alakazam counterpart (humanoid egg group, flipped gender ratio, same height, bulky vs frail sweeper, same BST before the Gen VI buff, Alakazam's Pokedex talks about never forgetting while Gothitelle's is about learning the future, Golem/Machamp received obvious counterparts in the same gen).
>>25861839
It just lists them in alphabetical order, I think.
>>25861857
I found it weird that Skarmory wasn't the one that got a prevo considering that it would have fit in nicely with its dex entry,
>>25861914
Well that makes sense.
>>25861782
>Gyarados is now UU
Kek, when did this happen? So much for being intimidating and strong
>>25861920
So if you propose
Gothitelle = Alakazam
Conkeldurr = Machamp
Gigalith = Golem
Chandelure = Gengar?
What about Reuniclus?
>>25861950
>UU is weak
Call me when it's NU, or even RU.
>>25861950
It is intimidating and strong. Counterparts rely on lore, not autistic lists by manchildren on the internet.
>>25861914
But in terms of counterparts, Diglett appears in all the games in Gen 1, while Sandshrew is exclusive to Green and Jap Blue, while Ekans is exclusive to Red.
Plus a shrew is the closest thing in Gen 1 to a mongoose, so it's kind of similar to Zangoose/Seviper.
>>25861917
yeah but it just sucks as a defensive pokemon, Recover and the occasional marvel scale are the only things that its got for it, Gyara gets DD so it should be reasonable for Milotic to get at least Calm Mind
>>25861978
Reuniclus is green, amorphous, and with a 50/50 gender ratio. Obviously that's the true Gardevoir counterpart.
>>25861950
>gyarados stayed in OU longer than Slaamence did
why was this allowed
>>25862007
>yeah but it just sucks as a defensive pokemon
>Milotic
>sucks as a defensive pokemon
>one of the most annoying tanks in the game
Whatever you say.
>>25861516
>Magmortar and Electivire
>6 years ago
Nope. Close to 10, friendo.
>>25861412
That Xerneas thing makes me mad everytime
>>25862072
It doesn't even have any animation outside of sticking it's leg out if you tap on it in the team menu.
>>25862024
>one of the most annoying tanks in the game
yeah not counting all the other better bulky water types out there
>Dusclops gets an evolution with Dusknoir
>Banette gets a Mega that could have easily passed as an evolution
>>25861883
It feels like it should be
Pinsir:Scyther::Heracross:Scizor
Now poor Scyther will never get a mega.
>>25861978
reuniclus isnt a trade evolution like conkeldurr and gigalith though
>>25862157
Neither is Gothitelle or Chandelure.
>>25862123
>It feels like it should be
>Pinsir:Scyther::Heracross:Scizor
No, it doesn't, and if you knew anything about the relation between rhino beetles and stag beetles in Japanese media, you'd understand.
>>25862216
I'm not saying Pinsir should evolve into Heracross.
>>25861859
To be fair though Scizor is the least "evolution" of the franchise. It's basically the prototipe of a form change.
>>25860935
Miltank and Tauros
Can only get Miltank by breeding them
>>25862093
There is no better bulkier water type with recovery options. The only similar pokemon to Milotic is Suicune which has to run Rest if you want recovery. And also Milotic is the best anti-meta tank if you run competitive instead of Marvel Scale.
>>25861875
>He thinks this is how typing works in the games.
The game's coding would still consider it a single type, jackass.
>Scyther gets a Metal Coat evo
>Pinsir doesn't
>>25861875
That's impossible. The only way a concept like that would work would be if you make it an ability.
>>25863220
Pinsir is counterparts with herracross. Maybe in gen 1 it was with scyther, but they literally have nothing in common besides being safari bug pokemon since 16 years ago.
>>25863240
Says who? You?
>>25863261
No. Logic, idiot. Are you 12? What kind of a reply is that?
Both Herracross and Pinsir are rhino and stag beetles respectively. Both also got megas together and have very similar stat distribution.
>>25861273
>Blue - Jynx
>Red - Electabuzz
>Green - Magmar
>Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch exclusive to these Pokemon and Hitmonchan only in their debut
>Baby Forms introduced together in Gen 2
If you think they're not counterparts, you are a fucking retard
>>25860935
>Blaziken got a mega before Swampert and Sceptile for no reason other than to distribute a Torchic
>Only Gen 1 and Gen 3 starters have mega evolutions
GF better give all starters mega evolutions in Sun and Moon.
>>25861341
Jynx not being catchable outside Japan is more fuel for the fire.
>mobileposters are allowed
>Pokemon-related threads are deleted
>>25863340
GF should just pretend that megas never happened in the first place
>>25863340
Gf better give all the starters an x and y mega. Gonna be picking favorites with starters when they are supposed to be an evenly enticing and respected choice. Fuck you game freak. Give me my Water/Steel Blastiose and M Venusaur that actually does something interesting when it evolves.
>>25861311
>next to eachother in the dex
Just like how Cloyster evolves into Gastly right?
>>25861801
Fairy =/= mythological you dolt, it's the cute type.
Not to mention it wouldn't make sense for an ALRAUNE to be Fairy type in the first place. Because Lilligant isn't a Dryad.
>>25863357
Oh my God you fat sack of shit shut the fuck up about mobile posters you poor third world faggot.
Jesus
>>25863357
>>25863362
That's impossible. Stay butthurt.
>>25863116
Quagsire you buffoon
>Can't set up on
>Gets recover
>Can tank physical hits from Kyurem B (trust me, I know from experience)
>Only one weakness
>Learns toxic, haze, EQ, and waterfall
>It's hidden ability makes it broken
>>25863292
To be fair, those two traits are shared with Scyther/Scizor as well.
Better points might be there abundance of Fighting type moves, Moxie as an HA, and availability in RS's safari zone. However, Scyther has just as much in common with Pinsir, such as their availability RBY's safari zone, the bug catching contest, and the fact they're from the same gen.
>>25863462
Quagsire can also do no damage to anything, has shittier defenses(except 6 extra bst in defense woohoo!), worse HP, non existent speed and gets 1HKO'd by any attack that it's weak to because that 1 weakness is 4x. It also cannot turn into a tank of death if you switch it into an intimidate like competitive milotic can.
>>25863504
Scyther is a mantis, not a beetle.
![generation-3[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/JpCjDVt.png "generation-3[1].png")
Gen 3's theme was pretty much all duality
>Seviper/Zangoose
>Banette/Dusclops
>Solrock/Lunatone
>Volbeat/Illumise
>Medicham/Hariyama
>Salamence/Metagross
>Lati@s
>Shiftry/Ludicolo
>Swellow/Pelipper
>Ninjask/Shedinja
>Beautifly/Dustox
>Sableye/Mawile
>Plusle/Minun
>Crawdaunt/Sharpedo
>Huntail/Gorebyss
Not to mention it's the only generation with 2 psuedo legendaries, introduced Milotic and Swalot as counterparts to previous Pokemon, and some of the Pokemon got more duality counterparts with the evolutions in Gen 4.
>>25863516
Actually they have the same HP bst, so you can cross that one out. I thought it was weaker. My bad on that one. I still think that Quagsire isn't nearly as good of a tank as milotic. Sure in some teams it would be, but Milotic is much more flexible and fits much more easily in a team than Quagsire.
>>25863431
are we doin this, nigger?
>>25863193
then they can change the coding, jackassor hire competent programmers as outside contractors
>>25863534
>>Salamence/Metagross
They have nothing in common besides being pseudos. Agree with the rest.
>>25863326
>Electabuzz and Magmar get evos
>Jynx doesn't
>people still think Jynx creates a trio with these three
you're a fucking retard
>>25863340
they explicitly stated that megas were given to pokemon who needed the boost, like manectric and altaria, and to pokemon who were already popular, like lucario and stingulor.
Blaziken is obviously a member of the latter group
>>25863516
>>25863554
>Quagsire deals no damage
More damage than Milotic. STAB EQ hurts like hell, even if coming off of a weaker attack stat
>Has shittier defenses
Better in some cases. You don't need that much defenses when very little can OHKO you, and no set ups will work because you ignore all stat changes.
The only real way to kill a Quagsire is to poison it or use Grass type attacks. Milotic is set up fodder.
>>25860935
Skarmory/Mantine
Gyarados/Milotic
Kyogre/Groudon
Eeveelutions in general
These are the only cases I can think of where one or more are getting shit treatment compared to their counterparts (some other cases like Pinsir/Heracross were recently leveled out).
>>25863561
You're retarded holy shit. You're suggesting changing how the engine in order for your retarded idea about a pokemon having the same type twice. Not to mention how that makes literally no sense lore-wise.
>>25863425
fairy is absolutely not the cute type
it is absolutely mythological
like there's no way around it
unless you think xerneas is super cute and can explain why pikachu isn't a fairy while jigglypuff is
>>25863575
They're both psuedos in the only generation with 2 psuedos. One has intimidate, the other cannot have its attack lowered. One has really defensive pre-evos and becomes less defensive over time, the other starts off as an all-or-nothing Staraptor and becomes tanky over time. One's steel, the other is dragon.
>>25863590
>Milotic is set up fodder.
With Haze and Dragon Tail? Are you high?
>>25863601
This post lol
>it is absolutely mythological
Okay, then explain to me how
>Jigglypuff
>Clefairy
>Granbull
>Mr Mime
>Azumarill
>Slurpuff
>Aromatisse
have anything to do with mythology. Dragon/Ghost are the mythological types. Fairy is a retarded cute type that didn't need to exist because we already had something for every aspect of the type. There is no Fairy type that wouldn't be equally as reasonable as another type, or, hell, make even more sense as another type.
>>25863599
>You're retarded holy shit.
no i'm not
>You're suggesting changing how the engine in order for your retarded idea about a pokemon having the same type twice.
that is correct
>Not to mention how that makes literally no sense lore-wise.
yes it does
Your move, fuckface
>>25863614
>Haze only works after they've set up
>Dragon tail has low priority and doesn't work on Fairies
Milotic would only be better in the case of Clefable setting up, but even then, Clefable will most likely just kill Milotic outright.
>>25863639
Oh yeah, I also forgot to throw
>Togekiss
>Mawile
>Carbink
>Dedenne
>Florges
on that list. The only slightly "mythological" fairies are
>Xerneas
>Klefki
>Gardevoir
>Whimsicott
Which is less than 1/4th of the type. It's the cute type, deal with it.
>>25863639
Clefairy is literally a space fairy
Jigglypuff shares a lot of design similarities
Snubbull/Granbull have always been described as a fairy pokemon. The type didn't exist until now.
Mr Mime is pretty obvious I think
Azumarill is a bit of an exception but it seems like a magical water rabbit
And Slurpuff and Aromatisse are just straight up a living dessert and makeup
All of these seem like "fairies" to me just beyond some of them being "cute". They are fae and unnatural creatures
Perhaps we just have different opinions on the matter, but you seem pretty upset about fairies for some reason
>>25863706
>Mawile makes no sense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futakuchi-onna
>>25863719
>All of these seem like "fairies" to me just beyond some of them being "cute"
Only because you're retarded. Not a single one of them is a Fairy other than a tangential tie.
And yes I'm upset at Fairy. I gave up playing any new Pokemon game until the type is heavily nerfed or removed. It makes no sense being in the game. None whatsoever. The type is more hilariously OP than Dragon ever was, so what even was the point of implementing the type in the first place if it's just going to become what it tried to kill.
>>25863743
>And yes I'm upset at Fairy. I gave up playing any new Pokemon game until the type is heavily nerfed or removed.
I guess you're never coming back then. RIP
>>25862103
I was waiting for banette evo so badly and then fucking mega evolutions ruined everything.
Just wait for next gen when Dusknoir gets a mega...
>>25860935
ITT:
Autists looking for patterns
>>25863743
Fairy makes just as much sense as dragon. There is no hard and fast definition of a dragon either. For the most part, fairies are just magical and fae creatures.
The type is pretty fine. It's good and helped balance the type matchups a little. Unless you really just hate poison and steel types.
>>25863534
Who is swalot a counterpart of? Doesnt share base stats with anyone.
>>25863819
Except some are well-established and canon
>>25863819
There are patterns. Everywhere in nature.
>>25863829
No, Fairy completely DESTROYED type balance. Gen 6 is even more IMBA than Gen 5 or 3.
Magnemite and Digglet are counterparts right? I don't know why but I always saw them as that even as a kid.
>>25863865
>barely anyone on this board will get this because underaged
>>25863863
false
>>25863588
>stingulor
Wh-what
>>25863534
all you're fucking doing is listing version exclusives you goddamn retard
>>25863906
No it didn't, it just changed it. How is it destroyed?
>>25863946
>being this new
>Zangoose
Needs 600,000 experience to reach 100lv.
Gets Hidden Ability which gives huge power boost while poisoned.
Knock Off becomes viable for it.
>Seviper
Needs 1,640,000 experience to reach 100lv.
Gets Hidden Ability which is situational and overall average at best.
Loses Sucker Punch (on cartridge).
>>25863534
You have very loose rules when it comes to duality. I don't agree with one third of your list but whatever floats your boat.
>>25863958
>Dragon is now one of the worst types in the game
>This nerfs several Pokemon that existed entirely because they countered Dragons
>Fairy is even more dominant than Water or Dragon ever was
>Water gets substantially buffed because so few people use Dragon anymore, and the only Dragon in OU with a resisted switch in is Dragonite or the legendaries
>Fairy is 10x as strong as Dragon ever was
>Clefable is currently the most powerful Pokemon in OU purely because it got the Fairy type, with no other significant buffs
>There's not a single Pokemon out there that wouldn't rather be dual typed Fairy
>Poison is still shit
>Dark is even shittier than it was before
>Psychic is completely outclassed
>Steel is better than ever, despite being the best type in the game in Gen 5
>Meta is run entirely by a group of Flying/Fairy/Steel/Water types
>Fairy was so OP that it pushed SALAMENCE, a previously Ubers Pokemon, into UU
Fairy completely destroyed the meta. The only 2 Pokemon that could counter them (Greninja and Aegislash) were OP in every other way and thus has to be banned.
>>25863952
>Implying
Look closer dumbass.
>>25863560
Let's do it.
>>25864050
half the shit in the list is just version exclusives and branch evolutions, some of the examples don't even make sense like hariyama and medicham
get rid of those and your list is just obvious shit like solrock/lunatone
>>25864057
we cloving
>>25864032
If you think Clefable is scary wait until you see Azumarill
>>25864032
Dragons are still fucking fine. Maybe you forgot about Garchomp, Zard X, M-Salamence? Dragon only has two bad matchups offensively, amazing neutral coverage, and a great defensive typing.
Dark is great defensively right now, especially with steel losing ghost/dark resist. Resisting both is valuable and now only dark can do it.
Clefable is strong because of its amazing movepool and ability. Fairy is just a better typing than its previous normal.
The rest is just you blown things out of proportion. Fairy is pretty much in line with the other types. It's a good defensive type, no doubt.
>>25864084
Are you retarded or what? There's very obvious links between Hariyama and Medicham, not to mention:
>Lati@s
>Salamence/Metagross
>Shiftry/Ludicolo
>Swellow/Pelipper
>Beautifly/Dustox
>Ninjask/Shedinja
>Crawdaunt/Sharpedo
>Huntail/Gorebyss
Not even half the list is version exclusives, which obviously are counterparts to one another. Everything else is "obvious" to you because you're just a retard begging the question to cover your own ass. Fuck off back to Ribbit and never return.
>>25864138
Clefable is literally S rank OU, higher than Azumarill.
>>>25864141
>Dragons are still fine
No, no they are not. Garchomp is only OU because it was horrendously broken before hand, and Fairy wouldn't even hurt it because it's a fucking psuedo-legendary with perfectly min/maxed stats, a great movepool, and 2 useful abilities. Zard X is a fucking mega evolution, which doesn't count.
>Dragon only has two bad matchups
Steel
Ice
Fairy
I count 3. Not to mention it's only SE against it self. Of course it has to have good neutral coverage, because it isn't SE against anything other than itself.
>Great defensive typing
>Weak to Fairy, Ice, and Dragon, with only 4 resistances
No, it's a really mediocre defensive typing, especially considering one of the 4 types it resists will always have an Ice type move unless you're using fucking Feebas or Magikarp.
>Dark is great right now
No it isn't. One immunity to a completely outclassed type, weakness to Fairy, Fighting, and Bug, and some pointless resistances to itself and Ghost. Whoopde fucking doo. It's a shit defensive typing. Resisting Knock-off is alright, but Fairy already does that, and better. Not to mention its strengths are mimicked by the superior Ghost typing.
>Fairy is just a better typing than Normal
No shit, it completely outclasses Normal and Psychic. Clefairy went from middling RU to the creme de la creme of OU with literally only 1 change.
In conclusion, you're a fucking retard and the cancer that caused GF to put in Fairy in the first place. I hope you die a painful death.
>>25864032
Salamence hasn't been uber since DPP; dropping from OU to UU is just a symptom of the power creep. Clefable is neither the most powerful nor most popular Pokemon in OU, and there are a mere 3 fairies in the top 40 by usage (there are 6 dragons).
>>25864241
An ice type getting hit with a dragon move isn't going to be happy about it. I was talking purely offensively.
Resisting fire, grass, water, and electric is very nice defensively. They are far more common than fairy, ice, and dragon moves.
If you can't see the value of dark defensively I don't even know why you're arguing the type balance to be honest.
Psychic has its advantages over fairy, but really doesn't compare defensively, which is fine.
Why are you so upset that somebody has another opinion on the type and its effect in the game?
>>25864241
>dark is bad
>what are Tyranitar and Bisharp
not every mon is trying to be defensive
>>25863706
>Togekiss
Togekiss family is one probably the most straight up fairy shit there is.
>>25864241
Clefable had a few changes. New moves and better special stab, new typing (obviously), and increased special attack
>>25864032
>Dragon is now one of the worst types in the game
>Dark is even shittier than it was before
>so few people use Dragon anymore
>Fairy completely destroyed the meta. The only 2 Pokemon that could counter them (Greninja and Aegislash) [...]
>>25864241
>Steel is a bad matchup for Dragon
>"Only" 4 resistances
Some things you write are true but the other shit is plain retarded. Chill the fuck out, mate.
>>25864336
That's the biggest argument against Fairy type in general. Dragon wasn't OP because it had some really strong outliers, so why nerf it? It wasn't the type, it was the Pokemon themselves.
>>25864311
Yeah, because it was balanced in Gen 5. Hell, it was a little bit under powered because the only weather where it was ever even decently useful was Sunny Day. Why nerf the type even more?
Top 40 doesn't even matter, because of the top 40, several are Megas, and several are legendaries. Nothing will change the fact that Clefairy is S rank OU. Usage rate does not determine how good a Pokemon is.
>>25863829
Dark shouldn't be weak to fairy.
>>25864102
>>25864373
>Usage rate does not determine how good a Pokemon is.
True, but it sure as hell is a lot more useful as a stat than a letter the council of autists appointed to it.
>>25863588
>Stingular gets a Mega
>not Pomboss
>>25864357
Because Dragon is now one of the worst types in the game. Granted, it isn't Ice, but it definitely isn't any better than Poison, Rock, or Grass.
And yes, Steel is a bad match up for Dragons. Not every Dragon gets a Fire type attack, meanwhile every Water type gets an Ice type attack. It effectively only has 3 resistances - Grass, Electric, and Fire, because the 4th "resistance" is doesn't help it at all due to them having something for Dragons.
You probably don't even competitively battle, so you wouldn't know what I'm talking about when I talk about tiers and the meta.
>>25864141
>Zard X, M-Salamence
It takes your mega slot to have a competitive dragon. Shit like Clefable and Azumarill is endlessly more versatile.
>>25864395
No it fucking isn't. Their strength in OU is entirely determined by how good they are in the tier, not how used they are. Usage rates mean fucking nothing. Autists using them is entirely the reason why Dragon got unjustifiably guttered.
All they had to do was make Ice, and maybe Rock, resist Dragon, and it would've been absolutely perfect. No need to introduce a new type to nerf Dragon extremely hard and then more than completely replace it in the meta. It didn't even do anything to Garchomp and Dragonite, since they will always be OP in spite of their type, not because of it. Garchomp could be Ice/Poison type, all else equal, and still be ridiculously strong.
>>25864373
Charizard X is also S rank. If you don't want to compare Megas to non-megas, then compare Charizard X to Mega Altaria or Mega Gardevoir. They both get Pixilate, one of the best abilities out there for a fairy type, and they stay in A rank.
>Because Dragon is now one of the worst types in the game.
>it definitely isn't any better than Poison, Rock, or Grass.
Do people even need more proof that this is bait or the guy is so retarded that he's not even worth talking to?
>>25864422
...I don't know if you understand how Garchomp is currently being used. Its typing, and the resistances that come with it, are central to its most popular sets.
>>25864422
>Usage rates mean fucking nothing.
No, they mean that a lot of people are using those pokemon. What really means absolutely buttfuck nothing is "S rank"
>>25864425
Charizard X is S rank because it's ridiculously good in a post-Greninja, post-M-Mawile meta. Almost all of its checks got banned, and it has a fantastic movepool, especially for setting up.
>>25864450
Yes, and it's also a dragon type. I'm trying to argue that Fairy is not "crazy super OP" and "better than dragon ever was", and the fact that the top Mega in OU is a Dragon supports that.
>counterparts thread
>it devolves into a smogon turd whining and shitting everything around him
Why are you so fucking cancerous? And you wonder why people hate smogon and you!
![184b94f179[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/rzDO3kS.png "184b94f179[1].png")
>>25864445
Trash has been overused in the past, you absolute retard. Do you not remember Gen 4 when Electivire and Ninjask were in the top 40 in OU?
Their ranking means everything, because it is judged by a bunch of competitive battlers who have proven their worth and (usually) know what they're talking about.
>>25864443
Oh please, tell me how his type affects how useful his moveset is. All Garchomps use a pool of about 7 moves, never varying from that ever. Sure, EQ STAB is nice, but it doesn't need it to absolutely destroy everything with its monstrous 130 base attack.
>>25863863
[Citation Needed]
>>25863865
Oh
>>25864492
>because it is judged by a bunch of competitive battlers who have proven their worth and (usually) know what they're talking about.
>because it is judged by a bunch of competitive battlers who have proven their worth and (usually) know what they're talking about.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
>>25864492
EQ and Outrage Stab were incredibly important to his success. High base power moves are actually very good to have, surprisingly.
>>25864475
It's also a Mega, which are inherently imba. Considering that Zard X hasn't managed to be banned to Ubers, despite M-Blaziken, M-Khan, M-Gengar, M-Mawile, M-Lucario, and M-Mence having been, I'd say it's pretty balanced.
The only banned Mega Dragon has a stat total of 20 less than Arceus, meanwhile the banned Mega Fairy has a stat total of 220 less. Not to mention Xerneas was S-rank Ubers, dethroning Kyogre and Mega-Mewtwo, before Primal Groudon came along.
>>25864422
Ice/Poisonisn't that bad in some circumstances
Also Garchomp's success is nearly entirely thanks to its supreme typing letting it gain access to high powered attacks, both STAB and non.
>>25864507
They know more than some scrub on /vp/ who thinks Fairy is balanced :^)
>>25861420
Mr. Mime is Sudowoodo's counterpart as of gen4
>Bonsly and Mime Jr.
>James got Mime Jr., Brock got Bonsly
>evolve learning mimic
>both learn mimic at the same level
>>25861859
Scizor is onix's counterpart
>>25864535
Again, all else equal, Garchomp would still be roughly as good, if not better (especially if it were Ground/Fairy instead of Ground/Dragon,)
Yeah, its STAB makes it pretty strong, but Outrage is risky to use, especially back in Gen 5 when everyone had a Scizor. Pure Ground would've been just as phenomenal because Ground is its most important STAB thanks to EQ.
>>25864536
Then go suck on their cock and choke on their cum. What are you here for since we're all so god damn terrible? Go back to your smogon forums, sperg.
>>25864528
The banned mega fairy also had Huge Power, giving a truly stupid effective attack stat. Also, I actually thought that ban was stupid. It was pretty simple to check/counter any given mawile set, people just persuaded themselves that it could somehow run every set at once.
![67fb454a09[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/0AHCQnr.png "67fb454a09[1].png")
>>25864507
In Gen 4, the most popular lead was this on Azelf. Just tell me that usage rate means anything. Just try to say it was a straight face while looking at this Azelf
And then just remember that Dusknoir was in the top 30 of usage.
![e504868d4d[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/ZW0tHlT.png "e504868d4d[1].png")
>>25864571
And the one banned Mega-Dragon has AERILATE, one of the few abilities even stronger than Huge Power.
I'm sure you're going to argue that Huge Power is better than 156 power STAB Double Edges on a Pokemon with Roost.
>>25864586
I literally told you that usage rate means BARELY anything. It just shows what is popular. All I'm saying is that this simple and useless stat to determine what is good(it only determines what you're most likely to face against which is extremely useful in building a team, so yes the stat is useful) is still worth a lot more than what rank a bunch of retards classified a pokemon as. That stat is completely and utterly useless.
>>25864404
>Not every Dragon gets a Fire type attack
Count them. Tell me how many dragon type Pokemon can't learn reliable fire attacks nor ground attacks to deal with steel types. One? Two?
>You probably don't even competitively battle, so you wouldn't know what I'm talking about when I talk about tiers and the meta
It's rich coming from someone who spouts bullshit like "dragon is worse than rock".
You derailed the thread so fucking well I feel bad for OP.
>>25864610
Again, the competitive players who consistently do amazing and win "tournaments" know way better than you do.
I bet you're one of those retards who thinks Little Mac should be God tier in Smash 4, despite every competitive player saying otherwise.
>>25864586
I used to piss on that set with lead Aerodactyl. Look how far we've come
>>25864563
In the case of Ground Vs Dragon/Ground, you have to weigh the extra resistances and access to a strong Dragon Tail/Claw (or Draco Meteor if you're into that sort of stuff) against the harsh Ice weakness and Dragon/Fairy vulnerability. It would be fairly close.
>>25864620
>Kingdra
>Lati@s get EQ but it falls on their weaker attack stat
>Dragalge iirc
I think thats it
>>25864609
>AERILATE, one of the few abilities even stronger than Huge Power.
Yeah im not so sure about that
>>25864620
Not counting Hidden Power Fire or any move that the Pokemon would never use because it only works with one of its low stats:
>Dragalge
>Flygon
>Haxorus
>Kingdra
>Kyurem
>Kyurem-Black
>Latios
>Latias
>Zygarde
Some learn EQ, yes, but, again, Scizor.
Obligatory thanks to the smogon cancerous cum guzzling faggots for ruining yet another thread that had absolutely nothing to do with their garbage. BRAVO! Go die.
>>25864661
1.3x power normal type moves when it learns Return and Double Edge (both over 100 power).
It basically has a no-recharge STAB Giga Impact in the form of Aerilate Double Edge. Hell, the only drawback is that it damages Salamence, a physically bulky Pokemon with Roost, for an extra 6 power.
156 power on a STAB boost is fucking insane, especially off of legendary-tier 145 attack. That's how strong a Dragon Mega has to be to be banned from OU.
OP here, thanks for derailing the thread everybody.
>>25864675
Only because Fairy type ruined the game competitively. If you get triggered about Smogon, think about everyone else who doesn't like Fairy types and how shitty it is for them. Maybe then you'd understand why that type was pure cancer, and is killing Pokemon from the inside.
>>25862103
>they're both trash
>>25864700
>If you get triggered about Smogon
I don't get "triggered" by Smogon. I get fucking annoyed because this thread had nothing to do with smogon. You're free to talk about whatever the fuck you want when it's on topic. This clearly isn't.
>>25864690
Thats true, but 145 attack on Huge Power gives a maximum of 854, which is higher than every choice bandable Pokemon in the entire game. The lack of Flying attacks would have been a mere annoyance at that level of power.
>>25863931
You're so cool.
You saw the movie Pi.
Wow. I wish we could all be as cool as you and understand that reference to a not obscure movie.
>>25861978
Well, gen5 had a bunch of pokemons that were basically gen1 remakes. Sawk & Throh compared to Hitomchan & Hitmonlee is the first that comes to mind.
>>25862649
>never thought about this
>same BST
Thanks for the insight anon
>>25863639
Not him but Azumarill is fairy because it's a reference to the rabbits on the moon.
>>25861864
Nah
>both mice
>both only have two evos
>both have a single type
>right next to each other in the Dex
>>25863934
>>25864505
If you think that Nidoran-M and Nidoran-F being counterparts are not canon, I don't know what to tell you.
Delphox, Greninja, and Chestnaught are RPG class tropes. and they are also the 6gen counterparts of Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur, as they are the starter pokemons of the 6gen.
Patterns exist, some are so specific that is barely a pattern at all, but some are so remarkable that you need to be blind to not see it.
>>25861864
Sandslash counterpart is Excadrill.
All the counterparts that I can think of without counting obvious patterns like regional bugs and rats and birds. Tell me if I missed any
Nidorans
Alakazam - Machamp
Hitmonlee - Hitmonchan
Magmar - Electabuzz - Jynx
Tauros - Miltank
Pinsir - Heracross
Fossils
Marril - Pikachu
Sudowoodo - Keckleon
Medicham - Hairyama
Throh - Sawk
Spinda - Smeargle
Zangoose - Seviper
Whiscash - Milotic
T
>>25865807
excadrill's counterpart is tyranitar
>>25865940
>spinda and smeargle
>whiscash and milotic
how fucking stupid are you? Any answer other than "incredibly", "very" or "completely", it is wrong
>>25865940
>Marril - Pikachu
Eh.
>Sudowoodo - Keckleon
wat.
>Spinda - Smeargle
Wat.
>Whiscash - Milotic
WAT.
>>25865940
You missed a few
>Sandslash - Hippowdon
>Onix - Geodude
>Venomoth - Lucario
>Stingulor - Albersnatch
>Salamence - Swellow
>Abomasnow - Pangoro
>>25865996
>tyranitar
>excadrill counterpart
Excadrill is literally the gen6 version of gen1 sandslash.
>>25865940
You never played a single game on your life don't you?
Guess children like you will become a common sight with reddit atracting poseurs here.
>>25865996
Whiscash is an ugly bottom feeder while Milotic is beautiful. I think the comparison is sound
>>25866003
Before the release of Gold/Silver, rumors of a Pokemon called "Pikablu" were floating around, that. It later turned out to be Marril
Both Sudowoodo and Kecleon are gimmicks that block the path. Unlike Snorlax, both are mimic Pokemon, so it's fitting
Sounda and Smeargle are both Normal typed gimmick Pokemon with unique move sets. It's fitting
>>25866047
then why does it work much better on teams with tyranitar than on teams with sandslash?
christians: 1
athiests: 0
>>25865940
>muh headcanon
>>25866089
Keckleon doesn't mimic shit, unless you mean it mimics invisibilty. If that's the argument you're making, they all mimic roadblocks so your comparison doesn't hold any water, and you are gay
there are a metric fuckton of gimmick pokemon with gimmick movesets, like delibird and semperfi and chatot
>>25866121
It's based on a chameleon. You really don't see how a chameleon is somewhat related to a rock camouflaged as a tree?
>>25866089
But that's like saying that Ariados and Galvantula are counterparts because they're both two-stage arachnid Pokemon.
They aren't counterparts, they just happen to be thematically similar.
When I talk about counterparts, I think of Pokemon like Arcanine and Ninetails, both two-stage, Fire-type, Fire Stone-evolving, version exclusive Pokemon.
>>25866165
Eh...I see what you mean, but I don't think of version exclusives as automatically counterparts. I think Gamefreak just wanted to put some special ones in different games, not necessarily related to each other (except through being unique to certain games)
I was debating to include Arcanine/Ninetails, since there is obviously a connection. Both are fire and quadrupeds that evolve with fire stones. But theres not really any other solid enough connections as to why they would be counter parts. Some like Zangoose/Seviper have a solid reason
>>25860935
>Phantump/Trevenant and Pumpkaboo/Gourgeist
>both Ghost/Grass-type Pokemon
>introduced in the same generation
>both evolve through trade
>right next to each other in the dex
>"Oh, but this one comes in four sizes and has different stats for each."
>"And look! The biggest one even has a different cry!'
>>25866289
you forgot that they were both mistakes and repugnant shitmons
>>25866209
Yes, and the Whiscash/Milotic connection makes total sense.
"This one is pretty and this one isn't" is based on absolute nonsense and opinions on appearance. There is literally nothing connecting the two.
>>25866209
ninetales and arcanine are counterparts because they are both built for sex
>>25866155
Sudowoodo looks like a tree, where Keckleon can turn into any color he wants, there is no deep connection here. They both happen to have the same gimmick of road blocking, like Snorlax.
>>25866313
>trevenant is a shitmon
It used to be one of the only possible means of controlling mega moms. Can't trump the stump.
>>25866155
>>25866155
We are talking about game relations here, newfag, not the ones you made up on your head. Go play one of the games instead of talking about something you never did.
Reminder that Tyranitar and Aggron are officially counterparts.
Dusclops/Banette is a weird scenario, because Dusclops actually got an evolution earlier on, but got totally shafted when it came to giving out megas.
>>25864755
>implying teenagers, which is what this board mainly consists of, watch Pi
Come on nigger. No one implied it's super obscure or whatever. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
>>25863418
Retard alert
>>25861429
I have some art
>>25862007
It gets coil now. It's something.
>>25861476
Water/Electric
A) It summons storms
B) Dank Thunder
C) It's got yellow lines and looks like its exuding energy.
>>25861412
>Primal Groudon gets an immunity to a x4 weakness
>Primal Kyogre gets an immunity to a x1/4 resist after factoring in rain
Fair fair.
>>25864389
Another phonefag here
>>25867778
Key words there are "used to be" it got trumped so quickly it was completely stumped.
>>25867778
>"It used to be"
Being the key phrases here
>>25861230
No Mega Slowking.
>>25861230
Pinsir and Scyther...
>>25861341
So Corsola and Qwilfish are counterparts or Octillery and Remoraid?
>>25861412
Reshiram gets a x4 ice weakness...
>>25861429
Gothitelle counterpart is Solosis...
>>25861632
What was Mankey's counterpart?
>>25861883
>medarot
what the hell is with all this autism?
>200+ replies
>not one mention of Froslass
Seriously, anons?
>>25865940
You forgot Starmie and Cloyster.
>>25869736
Meowth
>>25861978
Reuniclus is Gengar counterpart
Gastly and Solosis are both balls
Haunter and Duosion are heads
Gengar and Reuniclus are both blobs with limbs
>>25864373
There is a reason they called Outrage the button anon
>>25861412
...Xerneas has an extra form?
>>25863931
Not underage but don't get it, care to explain?
Scyther/Pinsir
My headcannon is convinced that Heracross was supposed to be Pinsir's evolution, but GF changed their minds for some reason
>>25864488
But Smogon loves the fairy type and this autist clearly doesn't understand current OU.
Good bait tho family
>>25864586
>"I did not play Gen IV OU: The Post "
Azelf and Aerodactyl were absolutely metagame-defining suicide leads in the last meta where that was a viable strategy. I bet you think Explosion Heatran was dumb too.
>>25864609
>stronger than Huge Power
Why do I keep coming into these threads
You're all fourteen and none of you know shit about Pokemon
>>25863946
>not accepting the stingulor metagame
>>25861230
>>25861273
>>25861654
I've always felt that Jynx, Electabuzz and Magmar were originally going to be a legendary trio, but the idea was dropped.
1) They have the same primary typing as the Birds
2) Aside from Hitmonchan, they were the only Pokemon to learn Ice Punch, Thunder Punch and Fire Punch for the first 2 gens
3) both got prevos
4) this was before gender was added for everything
Just speculation, but I think it's plausible.
>>25869723
That was definitely a case of Pokémon having their counterparts changed. Pinsir counterpart was rightfully changed to Heracross, as pretty much all Japanese media has stag beetle (kuwagatamushi) and rhinoceros beetle (kabutomushi) counterparts. Scyther is kind of on its own now, but it's cool enough to manage.
>>25869775
Don't worry anon, Froslass Mega is going to come, and it will have a permanent destiny bond as ability.
>>25871275
because /vp can't break 1100 on the ladder right?
>>25871397
>>25864373
>dragon
>underpowered in Gen V
Is this bait? Gen V OU was defined almost entirely by dragmagfags and weather wars.
>>25865940
>Alakazam - Machamp
????
Pic related was posted by the official site of Machamp, explicitly mentioning that Conkeldurr and Machamp lines are rivals, affirming that they are counterparts with the same evolutionary progression, BSTs, gender ratio, egg group, primary ability, etc
>>25863595
Just saying kyogre was better before primal forms so it's kind of fair that groudon got better treatment later
>>25873503
It's more a gen 1 thing, with Alakazam and Machamp are mirror images of each other anon. Their similarities are their being the same number of stages, same evolution method, same gender ratio and similar base stats, while at the time, Machamp had very high Attack while Alakazam had very high special. It's not as solid as modern counterparts.
>>25861890
>accurately express any emotion
Are you autistic? 'Cause, and I'm not even meme-ing here, you may actually have it.
>>25869652
Someone call a phonefag?
I always thought they did Pinsir dirty for the longest time, until they kinda made Heracross it's new counterpart. Why did Scyther get an evo in gen 2 but Pinsir didn't?
