I think I finally figured out why Gen2 always felt so empty and different to me, and it occurred when I went back and replayed HG.
Even though I've been playing since Gen 1, Gen 2 never really stood out to me in a way that Gen 3 did. I don't know why Gen 3 ended up being my favorite even though I put plenty of time into the original Gold. After replaying HG, though, I think it's because nothing is really connected. You can go for several towns without seeing any signs of Team Rocket, you don't really have any friends that reappear throughout the game (Even Lyra/Ethan in the remake are scarce), and your whole journey in general is basically "Hey, you have a Pokemon! Go collect badges."
This is in comparison to the later Gens, or at least Gen 3, where you're basically constantly on Team Aqua/Magma's tail, and where your adventure is also connected by your building reputation. You save some scientists and meet their leader who asks you to deliver goods to another town, continuing your journey, and you have allies who ask you favors that lead across the world. There isn't really much like that in Johto, each town is pretty self-contained.
Of course, that doesn't mean it's a good or bad thing. Some would probably argue that the way Gen3 does it was the beginning of making Pokemon too linear. I think it's just a noticeable difference in the way the games progress. Gen 3 onward gives you allies and goals that constantly intersect and move your journey along. In Gen2 you're just out and about as a trainer, and in each town you find some people who need your help in unrelated ways. You do your thing, then move on. It's a more lonesome experience, and it's kind of sad. I guess that's why people always say Johto feels melancholy.
ok
>>25738793
Sounds about right. You don't feel tied to many places or groups, you're just kind of around.
That's actually the reason why gen 2 is my favourite
It lets you train pokemon and win badges with shoving some god awful story down your throat
>>25738793
Johto is the best region.
>>25738793
hoennbabies making a comeback I see
nice blog post, m80 p't80
For real though, I can get behind this assessment. I think Gen 2 was a more solitary experience. I don't think melancholy or lonesome is the right word, because while it was a solitary journey, everywhere you went was rich and vibrant. I can't think of any towns that didn't have something to do, some people to meet, or what have you.
By the contrast, I love Gen 3. In fact, 2 and 3 are my favorites in the series, because they're the two I got most into. I think 3 was more focused on you and the story, in that you interacted with a cast of characters frequently and handled some real world shaking things. I think it was handled well, even though I think the plots that Magma and Aqua had were pants-on-head retarded to an astounding degree. You had guidance from Wallace and Steven, you had support from your rival, and it made it feel like the people you met mattered beyond their side quest.
Both are good. Enjoy them both.
>>25738793
Gen 1 and 2 definitely feel more detached from the plot but that's a positive. You don't have to save the world from a couple of crazies who want to flood the earth. Gen 2 feels like an adventure and not like a you're on a tour like gen 3 does.
>>25738926
>Gen 1 and 2 definitely feel more detached from the plot but that's a positive.
In most cases this is a negative, Pokemon isn't the exception this time.
The lack of attachment to the plot removes some of the adventuring and RPG aspects of the game.
It just feels like you're walking from one area to the next for no reason with no purpose, detached from the environment and people around you.
>>25738793
>It's a more lonesome experience
>Johto feels melancholy
Agreed
GS is like the majora's mask from pokemon games
>>25739034
>In most cases this is a negative
it's just a point of view
> with no purpose
the purpose is to discover a new world
for many people, it's fun to just discovery things and meet new places, not trying to stop the bad guys all the time
>>25739034
You aren't walking around for no reason.The purpose of the games is to get gym badges and beat the elite four, not to stop some """""evil""""" team.
Some anon wrote that a while ago.
He understood the meaning of gen2.
This is why that added guy in the Burnt Tower feels out of place. Before you just found the dogs and they run away without explanation until you find them again.
In the remakes it has that Gen IV+ fabrication where Legendaries are super critical and need to be explained. It removes the mystery.
>>25739114
>>25739082
So no particular reason then.
This isn't 1996 anymore, pokemon isn't a new game and discovery only works hand in hand with an entirely new game.
After that you need a purpose and something to connect the player to the game.
Generations 1 and 2 are adventures. While there's a little guidance, and some obstacles that block your path at times, you're left to do what you want to do. Things feel more like discoveries when you're not lead straight to them.
Generations 3 through 6 are stories. You're there to experience the story they've laid out for you.
Which one is better is subjective, but I really think it's time for another adventure. We've had five stories, but only two adventures.
As a side note, this is why a lot of people (myself included) want another Kanto remake. Since GameFreak have abandoned the style the games used to be, it feels like the only way to get another game of that style is with a remake.
It's prototype name in Japan was simply Pokemon 2 for a reason. Everything in GSC is about picking up the pieces from RBY
>>25738793
>>25739037
Also agreed. I still love the gen/region, but I never understood how some anons saw Johto as comfy. It always felt a little creepy to me.
>>25739171
You're judging a game made back then by the standards imposed today. That's like saying Dragon Quest 1 is a shit rpg because it doesn't have a big sweeping plot like 8 does.
>>25739133
I kinda like this idea and want to write up some documentation for a fangame that will never be finished.
>>25739175
desu if they got rid of the whole "evil team" device I'd be pleased. Rocket was cool but simple, Aqua/Magma were idiotic but classic, Galactic was actually kind of creepy, Plasma was interesting, but Flare just felt forced to me. X and Y could have easily been just as, if not more, strong of games without them entirely.Not to mention the stupid-ass ending where you and your "rivals" all get medals, when you did literally all the work stopping the bad guys.
>>25739248
I agree, except Team Plasma was the one where I thought it got unnecessary and boring.
>>25739171
Again, it's just a point of view.
>purpose
anyone can easily say: fuck it, I don't wanna to save the world, I just wanna explore it.
It's like saying pokemon Snap is boring. Some people like it and some people don't. Your opinion is not the same than everyone else opinion.
>pokemon isn't a new game
it's always a new game to someone
This is why Gen 2 is my favorite. You feel like you are on a journey to train Pokemon and collect Gym Badges and you get caught in this huge ordeal about Team Rocket. Just think that if Team Rocket didn't block the Gym in Azalea Town you probably would not have even fought them. The only reason you started fighting against Team Rocket was because they were in your way, and not because you thought it was your duty to cleanse Johto of evil or something.
>>25739343
And when you think about it, if you did nothing then Silver probably would've beaten them himself.
>>25738793
>you don't really have any friends that reappear throughout the game
What the fuck? You like that stupid shit? I'm just playing Platinum for the first time today and that's most annoying thing about this game. Every 10 steps I'm talking to the male version of me or the yellow haired guy. Been played HGSS though which was great.
>>25739213
They probably feel like it's comfy because it reminds them of being a kid.
For me, GSC isn't comfy, but the old games really did fill me with a sense of mystery. The overworld graphics were worse than RSE and left me filling out a lot more with my imagination, and I was usually playing at night time, something that didn't exist in RSE. It also had a lot more "pointless" side areas and directions to go, and places to surf on routes or little nooks to discover. And, of course, Union Cave/Ruins of Alph, Mt. Mortar, and Dark Cave all had secret depths and reaches to find. RSE was prettier and had more variety with biomes, and usually felt more like an adventure, but there was a magic to GSC for me that was lost in the remakes. HGSS are still excellent, but now even at night everything feels more safe and defined.
I'm hoping a new game will feel mysterious again like GSC, though I doubt something that isn't a fan game can pull it off.
>>25738793
The reasons you listed are why so many people dislike Gen 3 in comparison though.
And fuck you for trying to start a genwar thread, mods please delete this.
>>25739161
Nah fuckface Eusine was in Crystal. Complain about that game not Gen IV.
Not even defending gen IV but do we really need to bring gen wars into everything?
>>25739213
Comfy music and atmosphere, all the town feel old and lived in, but very friendly. Places like Goldenrod were vibrant and welcoming, there was a park you could chill in, ect. Was also the first games with night time (guess you could say this was creepy though)
But places like the Ruins of Alph crank the creepy up 500%. And that's a good thing.
If you was a kid and you turned on your radio in those ruins, you shit yourself and left. There is no denying that.
I fucking WISH games gave you more freedom like Gen 1 and 2, with less reliance on a supervillain plot. They can focus more on the atmosphere and impact from the locations.
>>25739161
What, no?
Ho-oh and Lugia are no more explained than they were in the originals.
They did keep Eusine, but I don't see the problem with him really. 2/3 of the beasts are still found via random encounters, and are going to shock and mystify kids. Who cares if one of them appears to you?
>>25738793
You're the reason Pokémon games have gonre from adventure to generic "muh chosen one" plots.
>>25739161
The thing that bothered me was the kimono girls and their mysterious "YOU ARE AT THE CENTRE OF IMPORTANT EVENTS AND WE WILL NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING ELSE" bullshit.
Why did I have to climb that fucking tower and kill/catch Ho-Oh? What was the point?
They should have let you be an absolute asshole to the kimono girls and have them decide you're not the chosen whatever.
>>25739489
Do you just mash A or something? Throughout the games, you showed up at the right time to save each of them. They believe this is fate or whatever, and deem you worthy of meeting Ho-oh, so they let you into the tower. That's it.
There was no big chosen one plot, or world destruction, or any of that stuff. They just guide you to Ho-oh because it's a franchise staple to face a legendary before the E4 now.
That's not a problem, there are far worse trends in modern Pokémon games to complain about. Having to meet a legendary (that isn't even tied to the villains plot for once) shouldn't be a problem for you. Just sayin.
>>25739541
There's no real reason for it and it breaks the pacing of the game. Getting the eighth badge is hyped up as the last thing you need to do before the Pokemon League. Team Rocket is gone for good this time, and you've got nothing left to do but cruise on over to Kanto and begin the final leg of your journey.
But no. You've got busywork to do for no good reason. You've got to deal with the Kimono Sues and their super-amazing legendary Pokemon.
And not to mention if you try to leave, Lyra says the absolute most infuriating line she could have said: "Where do you think you're going, Gold?"
They could have had her say "yo Gold you've got to go see the kimono girls" or something, but they had to give her the high and mighty line instead. The line mothers say when you've got a chore to do instead of hanging out with your friends, like GameFreak knew it was a chore.
This whole sequence legit drives me up the wall every time I play the game.
>>25739618
>Gold
>not Ethan
But nah, I never had a problem with it.
Maybe, to help pacing, they could have had you go do it after you beat Team Rocket, so you wouldn't have to stray from your path or whatever, but ehh, it's no big deal, at least for me.
Might be more frustrating for people playing SoulSilver though, what with the Whirl Islands. Just seems like that place is better suited for the very end of the game, not before the E4. That's why I still maintain Gold/HG to be the superior versions.
But I digress.
>>25739175
I'd say you're right about 5 and 6, but 3 and 4 feel more like bridges between the two concepts. In fact, I'd argue that the jump between 4 and 5 was bigger than the one between 2 and 3.
And, while I don't think GF would go straight from Kalos to a region as open as Kanto, I could see them going back over that bridge to more adventurous games.
I honestly like that. The evil teams and "climatic stories" are consistently the worst parts of the games, I don't like HGSS as much because it shoves that in a bit more that the originals with the whole Kimono Girls plot and basically setting you up as some sort of chosen one, pure of heart and all that.
I wish the games would focus more on worldbuilding and the adventure. At least XY/ORAS had a bit more of the former, though I think some of it in ORAS was pants on head retarded.
>you're basically constantly on Team Aqua/Magma's tail
And that's why I fucking hate what Gen 3 did to the series. There's always a big bad team that you have to go out of your way to stop and it always ends with you catching the god mon of the Gen.
Gen 1 and 2 had you running into Team Rocket by coincidence and you only stopped them as they were an obstacle in your way. Gen 3 and everything after makes you go out of your way to stop Team Bullshit.
I think SS and HG have the give the best sense of adventure than any other games. You run into Silver frequently enough so he keeps a strong presence as a rival. You don't really confront team rocket until they've been built up as you, both the player and you're team, have been built up and trained, on top of being assisted by Lance. The cities are pretty close, but the early routes and the ice cave/lake of rage situation split up the early and last
badges decently.
I never really felt alone because your leading Pokemon is always with you, and i feel in the world of Pokemon the bond between trainer and team has a lot more of an impact that any other if the games show, even the remakes. The remakes do a pretty good job though, since you can take pictures with your team in a few places and that there's like one or two "cutscenes" involving your lead Pokemon.
If I could add one thing though, I would add a May/Dawn type character or make Lyra more present.
Plus, you get Kanto which effectively doubled the game. Obviously that a positive if you like the lonesome feel of Gen I and II
>>25738793
I'm not reading your memories OP
>>25738793
I don't have anything to contribute to this thread but I like analytical posts like these
>>25738793
Where can I subscribe?
>>25739171
>No particular reason
>Helping the professor complete the pokedex
>Get to travel the world at your own leisure to help complete the pokedex
>Also get to start your own pokemon journey
>Aim to become the champion
Those are some pretty good reasons.
The "saving the world" bit is just another one for the list and mostly comes as a result of the journey.
>>25738793
cool stool brool. i like it for those exact reasons you dont and i dont like gen 3 for those exact reasons you do.
The problem was that it was a glorified expansion pack. All the gen 2 Pokemon were rare and there was rarely more than one per area. Four of the gym leaders exclusively use gen 1 Pokemon.
>>25738886
Old /vp/ spelled it with two 'b's
I personally prefer a disconnected experience to an overly connected experience. XY, parts of BW2 (it mellowed out) and parts of ORAS felt like slogs because you were never left alone or given room to breathe. I greatly prefer disconnection, though you can have a middle ground, like Pt and BW1 where you have threads moving the whole way through but not to the point of feeling bogged down. RSE was fine too, ORAS just tipped it over with all the extended cutscenes, free warps, and free shit that you sometimes HAVE to take like Lati@s.
>>25738793
I don't care about the shitty save the world plot the later games have
I don't care about the having a bunch of retarded friends stopping me every time I enter a new town to say something I already know(hand holding) or something completely pointless.
I just want to catch Pokemon and fight gym leaders. No Pokemon game has a good plot. They need to stop trying.
It was hard to level up my team in Crystal. Grinding in dark cave, and later on Gravelers really sucked. Not to mention I couldn't waste any precious trainer exp. points. And soul silver just seemed even more slow. I still haven't beat lance, and I'm waiting to find a working AR just to use 4-5 rare candies to get my team to decent shape.
>>25740559
This.
>>25741118
There was a time, it might still be in but I'm not going to attempt, where saying hoennbaby with two b's got you a fifteen minute lock, that's when it fell out of style.
>>25741243
Why aren't you rematching trainers? You can rematch them an infinite number of times on their day.
>>25741243
>not being able to beat Lance underlevelled without grinding
>literally needing to cheat at Pokémon to beat the single-player game
Why is /vp/ so awful at children's games?
