I just beat B/W and I am dumfounded as to how ANYONE could say this is the best game. I haven't played the sequel, I will one day, but this is the most linear Pokemon game by far. Without even talking about whether the designs were good or bad, why in the fuck was this allowed? Its super uninteresting.
>>25737726
>muh freeroaming
>>25737736
Its not even about freeroaming, its about getting some sense of satisfaction about figuring out where to go next.
I agree with you, the journey is shit. Gym in every single town after the first two, Cheren and Bianca come bother you right before/after you enter/leave town, gym is closed because the gym leader is off investigating Team Plasma, find Team Plasma, fight them off, go to gym, rinse and repeat.
But BW2 is a lot better, you should play it still.
BW had a few cool moments and some good pokemon.
BW2 is a much better experience but it is not the best set of games in the series.
Every generation goes through ebbs and flows of abject hatred and unadulterated praise. It's currently in a high praise period.
>>25737726
I feel you. BW2 is much better.
>>25737726
Gen V was a social commentary on the illusion of choice, and linearity in an individual's life in America.
Sorry you didn't understand it.
Cus if you weren't aware, many parents complained to GameFreak how their kids got lost in Sinnoh and how horrible of a region it was. Thus creating the "somewhat" linearity of Unova. Even then, Unova is 100x more interesting than the shit like Johto.
>>25737775
>social commentary
>Pokemon
KEKANADURA
You are a retard. Don't get mad, though. It wasn't my choice to say that.
>>25737726
>he fell for the "gen5 has the best games" meme
>>25737753
Are you kidding? Every game is linear, this one just happens to be in a circle. It has EXACTLY the same amount of exploration as other gens. Sick of this meme
>>25737822
>It has EXACTLY the same amount of exploration as other gens
Not him but that's untrue. You can't even tackle gyms in a different order
>>25738030
You haven't been able to do the gyms in a different order in any regions other than Kanto and Johto
>>25737822
Every game is linear, but past games had a respect for location. Look a Sinnoh, which logically divides its environmental features and hazards based on the geographical positioning in relation to Mt. Coronet.
Unova has a city, a random fucking desert, and lush forest literally right next to each other. It just screams laziness.
>>25738046
Actually you can skip Ramos and fight him after iirc
>>25738070
The desert is Poké-ground zero. :^)
>>25737822
See this wouldn't bother me if Unova didn't have FORCED linearity.
It didn't have to be linear. HMs didn't require badges in Gen 5 so you can theoretically just trade over an HM slave and go wherever you want, allowing for massive amounts of sequence of breaking. But that isn't allowed because every point that would allow for this, has NPCs blocking off progression so that you have to deal with the plot first.
>>25738030
Now, show where the gyms and the "big events" on the lines are.
Also bonus points if you know the post elite 4 content and the extras.
>>25737726
I know right. And the routes were short as fuck and as linear as the map.
>>25737822
Sinnoh, Hoenn, and Kanto weren't this linear
>>25738215
Kalos isn't either. The mere fact that you have Lumiose as a central town the whole region branches off from where you end up multiple times gives it at least some variation.
You weren't playing it right (;
>>25737753
>>25737822
I just recently finished Volt White 1 and am currently playing Emerald (vanilla) for the first time.
Non-linearity is a bad thing is it results into fighting underleveled trainers.
Then again, I'm near the end and everyone's still only level 30~
I do agree that I prefer a more non-linear region, but not if the only way to get it is by forcing you to use HMs everywhere, because that's essentially what's happening. People hate the 'people dance for no reason' but it's really just a better solution than having a HM slave.
I'm probably nitpicking, but to me the way things are connected in BW is what makes it feel linear. Everything is connected by gates. Moving from one area to the next feels pretty artificial in the sense of a sudden-change in environment.
But as a game, Gen V is still the best. Even if I prefer a Gen 3/4-esque region.
Maybe it's also the artsyle that turns me away from gen V, but I feel like it's just too plain. I just feel like I'm going through normal places, instead of adventuring through mysterious areas.
Then again, it's still the best game because of the battle-system. it's not an excuse by any means, but priorities.
>>25738274
Which you can't all enter unless you progress through the story.
>>25738274
>>25738307
speaking of Lumiose. What a mess to navigate through, I got lost about everytime trying to look for Looker. Every building looks the same. The camera wasn't helping either.
>>25738191
>post elite 4 content
I don't know why this is brought up in every discussion. The very concept of postgame content didn't even exist in the series until Emerald, unless you count Kanto which I don't because imo the game doesn't "end" until you beat Red, not when you beat a lvl 50 Dragonite.
These games are not about the single-player, they never have been. It's fluff, it's window dressing to keep you playing long enough to obtain the pokemon you and your friends want you trade/battle with. I know not everyone here started at gen 1, but really the majority of games have show that my statement is the drive of these games.
>>25738299
>Dancing people is better than HM slaves
No. This is not, and never will be true.
>>25738514
Tell me how forcing your pokemon a shit move is better when the end result is literally the same?
Do you like less variety in your games?
>>25738299
>People hate the 'people dance for no reason' but it's really just a better solution than having a HM slave.
No it's not, because this is the gen where having the HM moves on a pokemon early has no gym restrictions.
>>25738541
>Surf/Waterfall/Fly
>shit moves
strength and cut, I'll give you. Not that Fly is even necesary in ORAS with the Eon Flute.
>>25738551
>No it's not, because this is the gen where having the HM moves on a pokemon early has no gym restrictions.
I fail to see how that is relevant. It reeks of non-sequitur but feel free to explain yourself
>>25738561
>Do you like less variety in your games?
>>25738500
>ecause imo the game doesn't "end" until you beat Red
>beat Lance
>credits roll
Kanto is postgame and without that GSC gets significantly more shit.
>>25738562
You can use Surf/Waterfall/Strength/Cut/Fly whenever you want, the game doesn't require you to beat gyms first. That means as long as you have pokemon brought over from another game with those moves, you can in theory go anywhere you want and circumvent the roadblocks that are there because "you didn't beat the gym and get the hm for that yet". Except you can't because those dancing guys or "the road is being worked on" is in the way. If those characters weren't in the game, there wouldn't be anything stopping you from going 6 towns ahead of where you're supposed to.
>>25737726
>ohhh look at my post
you need to realize this.
>>25738591
Case in point, right outside Nimbasa City is Veteran Murphy with his lvl 51 team. You can fight him as soon as you get to the town if you traded over a pokemon with Surf and Waterfall.
The game should have more things like that.
But muh terrible anime story
>>25738046
>>25738079
There's also a way you can skip Brawly in RSE (they got rid of it in ORAS though)
Can someone explain what exactly is wrong with the games being linear?
>>25738746
Nothing really.
>>25738746
It means that every time you play the game it's going to be exactly the same. You can't even do things differently when playing the other version.
>implying gen 5 wasn't just shat out as a last hoorah before the 3DS
>implying the games were anything more than shitty attempts at edgyness
>>25737775
Still the best roadblock ever.
Beats the hell out of trying to go east of Opelucid before BW1 ends. "There's something up ahead. Go away."
>>25737726
Yeah, Gen 5 made me fall out of love with Pokemon in general.
The first games were so disappointing that I didn't even bother buying the second.
Doesn't matter how good the game is when you make it a direct sequel to a shitty one.
>>25738746
In my opinion it is boring, and unlike the idea of the first couple of games where the worlds was yours to explore within a general storyline vs Unova where you feel like you are guided down a hallway to go through the story.
>>25738079
>>25738706
Literally nobody did this.
>>25738591
>>25738639
So you want less variety with the same end-result.
Your argument is
>fly, surf and waterfall exist therefore roadblocks don't need to exist is really not making any sense. Like, I'm baffled at how inept you can be. It's not that hard of a concept. Roadblocks will exist either fucking way. Only one type of roadblock forces you to waste a moveslot from a pokemon. And existing HMs are irrelevant, they can make an infinite amount of roadblocks.
>>25738788
>>implying gen 5 wasn't just shat out as a last hoorah before the 3DS
See the problem behind that is that the game was actually fantastic in terms of quality.
If anything HGSS was shat out just as a quick game before Gen 5 and it shows seeing as they used the Entralink sprites as a tacked on feature.
>>25738746
Nothing but the way Unova just transforms from desert into ice world feels less adventurous than gen 3 and 4 did it.
That's really the complaint here, at least for me, I have nothing against linearity. You play the game with a different team and all is gucci.
>>25738827
Actually I'm saying that a player with the tools should be able to circumvent anything the game throws at him. I want pokemon to have the equivalent where if you can survive running through a cave of lvl 80 monsters at lvl 10, you reach a town that has the best equipment for sale in it. I want things that let you break open the game.
I love how some people bitch about gen 5 having dancing guys as a roadblock just because they keep you from going down that route yet they forget the Psysuck group in gen 4 that just stood there. But i suppose it's fine because it was gen 4 and not the gen that's fun to hate.
>>25738866
I forget Sinnoh because I played gen 4 once then never touched it again.
>>25738746
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. People just have a massive boner for the idea and concept of it.
Because of various open world games, they are incapable of appreciating both linear and non-linear. If a game so much as has the GALL to be linear, then to them it's an automatic 'this is shit'.
>>25738776
>It means that every time you play the game it's going to be exactly the same. You can't even do things differently when playing the other version.
Completely and utterly overrated, especially in a game like Pokemon. You're only fooling yourself here
>>25738811
but every game has dumb roadblocks, they just had you backtracking through areas instead of sending you in a straight line
>>25738863
>I want to break open the game that's why I think an unbreakable game is bad game-design
You can still break any game. Just tweak.
>>25738878
>Completely and utterly overrated
You've never played a game with actual choice in it. Or a tabletop rpg.
>>25738851
>Nothing but the way Unova just transforms from desert into ice world feels less adventurous than gen 3 and 4 did it.
That's Kalos anon, Ice didn't appear in 5 unless it was Winter or unless you were in that one cavern.
>>25738835
>If anything HGSS was shat out just as a quick game before Gen 5 and it shows seeing as they used the Entralink sprites as a tacked on feature.
I think that's quite the leap. If anything it makes me wonder what HGSS could've been if they limited the following-sprites to starters only. It seems like such a resource-hog (which is fine for a game with that type of budget) but HGSS becomes extremely barebones without that one feature
>>25738866
It's not that, it's that Sinnoh was forgettable as fuck and no one cares for it except for Sinnohbabbies.
>>25738776
How about training a different team? There are a lot more possibilities for that than "I fought the gyms in a slightly different order than the last time I played". I can't even understand why you'd want something like that anyway, it just makes the gyms even easier than they normally would be. Take Kanto for an example. Being able to fight Koga and Sabrina in whichever order you like makes them ridiculously easy since both their teams are around the same level and fighting one will overlevel you for the other.
>>25738811
Maybe its just me but the Kanto games, which are probably the most open, are by far the most boring to me. It was my first region too, albeit in FRLG rather than RBY.
>>25738851
Didn't Hoenn have a desert out of nowhere too? Also I much prefer some variety in the environment compared to Kanto and Johto which are just plains, forests, and and caves.
Personally, I prefer the plot of BW1 to BW2. BW2 is a superior game in terms of the Pokémon, music, and graphics, but most of the story of 2 only makes sense/has value if you played 1
Bw was mediocre. Bw2 was the best. I felt the same way you did. Go play the sequel you'll love it
>>25738835
>See the problem behind that is that the game was actually fantastic in terms of quality.
Exactly. All this boils down to is people bitching about their precious non-linearity. They can't enjoy something beyond that. They can't appreciate many things to a game.
Basically, nobody seems to know how to actually have FUN.
>>25738896
I'm just using an (extreme) example. The transitions are (probably not) all quite abrupt and really not sensible geological. I'd like to forget about Kalos but I'm honestly quite tempted to play a romhack of it.
>>25738910
>I think that's quite the leap.
Tie it into the fact that the game was riddled with simple gimmicks, didn't fix anything from GSC and just placed legendaries in random locations.
Oh and the entire Arceus event using stock footage.
>>25737726
You're a stupid tasteless faggot.
And you're going to die a stupid tasteless faggot.Sooner than you think
>>25738930
OP Here, I've heard a lot of good things, and the World Tournament thing sounds really hype. I'm going to do XY, then Platinum again (I haven't played it in years, and when I did I took over my brother's file who was already 5 gyms into it) first.
>>25738933
I was bothered far more by the fact that I can count using just my fingers how many trainers in the main game of B2W2 have 4 or more pokemon.
>>25738937
Extreme or not the example is being applied to a game where it doesn't make sense.
>>25738974
The number of Pokemon doesn't matter anon.
It's the movesets and AI, needless to say that goes to Black and White 2's challenge mode and despite the fact it was only a fraction harder than the main game it was still the hardest main game we've had.
Too bad it had an obtuse unlock method.
>>25738933
>Awesome game with non linearity
>Awesome game that is linear
I will go for the non linear one.
>>25738919
>Didn't Hoenn have a desert out of nowhere too?
Well, it's next to a volcano. So it makes sense.
>Also I much prefer some variety in the environment compared to Kanto and Johto which are just plains, forests, and and caves.
I do too, but Kanto and Jotho where the first of their kind, on limited hardware, it's really difficult to complain about it. And I still think those games were quite varied. (but I do agree)
>>25738940
I am well aware of the flaws present in HGSS but I do like most of the added features.
>>25738880
With how handheld technology has progressed, there was an opportunity to make these games mimic realistic geography and make the variety in locale matter. Gen IV is a perfect example of this. So when Gen V rolled around and said "we're going to give you a lot of variety but you're just going to progress down a straight line", that came across as lazy and uninspired.
The idea of doubling back on a locale is much more interesting and rewarding than having the literal endgame be the furthest point from where you started. It's why the Elite Four of RBY and GSC is such an exciting place to go to- it was there the entire time, you just didn't have the ability to get there.
>>25738880
I am not talking about roadblocks specifically, I guess this more so applies to a variety of factors in Unova that made it feel more structured than other games. The general story with N as well as the layout of the map in addition to roadblocks made it seem very linear and as if everything was planned for the player. I don't know, I just felt like the story was better in gens 1-4 where you were just a guy/gal going through the motions who happened to get involved in a big mess vs in Unova where it was basically your destiny.
>>25738878
I don't think you are wrong at all in terms of linearity in games, but it seems like for Pokemon at least there is a fine line between the aspects where you get to explore and the game guiding you where you need to go. There is no exact definition or parameter of how much is too open and when it is not open enough. I think Unova just had too much guiding for my taste, I preferred the way it was structured in Gen 1 where to a certain extent you were guided through the first 2-3 gyms to get a grip on the concepts and to get you established, and then after S.S. Anne you are just sort of let loose, then once you beat Blaine you get back into a more structured storyline. That does not mean that Unova is not a great region but rather the structure of the game could have done with less restrictions, in my opinion.
>>25738990
I never said it would make the game harder. Pokemon single player will never ACTUALLY be hard, because a good player can just outplay any AI unless it outright cheats.
I just want them to carry more pokemon. Hell like a third of trainers only carry one.
>>25738996
>Well, it's next to a volcano. So it makes sense.
Not really, volcanic land is often extremely fertile. If anything it should be a jungle.
>>25738977
Look at this picture again.
Compare it to for example >>>25738996
>>25737726
buh-buh-but there are black peopul in it muh dick
>>25737726
>he fell for the "gen 5 is best meme"
>>25738892
Not that anon (i'm >>25738746) but I enjoy open world and games with actual choices plenty, Planescape Torment is one of my favourite games, even - I just don't think every game needs to be non-linear. There's nothing wrong with a game being linear if that fits better for the plot or gameplay style or whatever.
>>25738996
>Well, it's next to a volcano. So it makes sense.
That's not how climate works anon. If anything, it makes less sense to have a desert next to a volcano since active volcanoes often induce a lot of rain (due to all the shit they spew into the atmosphere) and their ash helps to make soil more fertile.
BW1 is shit, the only people who like it just cream themselves over N or Ghetis, or enjoy only using "new" Pokemon yet don't have the self-control to do it without the game literally forcing them to.
BW2 won't hit with everyone, but in general it's a much better game with much more variety, little details and nooks and crannies, and things to explore; though a lot of it can't be done til post-game. You're honestly better off playing it alone and just ignoring BW1 because then the reused assets won't bug you at all.
>>25739020
If you're referring to the mountains they aren't actually icy mountains within the game unless you're playing during the winter season.
Changing from desert to grassland isn't exactly a strange thing by the way.
>>25739015
>it should be fertile
I just Google and deserts next to volcanoes exist in real life so it makes sense. It just depends. But the rest of the region is already extremely fertile and tropical so I don't see how they'd have been able to sneak-in a desert on any other place of the map. So I do think it's intentionally placed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_desert
>>25739053
>or enjoy only using "new" Pokemon yet don't have the self-control to do it without the game literally forcing them to.
I always use only new pokemon my first time playing through a gen regardless of whether the game forces me to or not - I just liked BW because it was at least an interesting change of pace to run through a Woobat infested cave rather than a Zubat infested one for the 300th time.
>Kanto, Johto, Hoen, and Sinnoh are Japan
>Unova is New York
I hate when people say its based on New York. Like what? One city maybe.
>>25739035
>That's not how climate works anon. If anything, it makes less sense to have a desert next to a volcano since active volcanoes often induce a lot of rain (due to all the shit they spew into the atmosphere) and their ash helps to make soil more fertile.
While I'm not claiming it's impossible. We're talking about the (non scientific) birthplace of Groudon here, polar-opposite of Kyroge (the rainmaker pokemon) (Groudon is a part of the weather trio.)
I think that both non-scientifically and scientifically wise the placement of the desert in Hoenn is intentional thus not out of place.
>>25739058
If you can't tell the difference between the examples I provided then I feel like no amount of explaining will convince you otherwise. That's not due to my lack of teacher-skills.
>>25739035
>>25739125
>>25739015
Also its abilities
>>25739094
Not only does it look very similar to the New York City metro area but Masuda literally confirmed its based on New York.
http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/blog/dir_english/?p=242
>>25739125
>If you can't tell the difference between the examples I provided then I feel like no amount of explaining will convince you otherwise.
There's no sense to your complaint though, the changes in terrain aren't too different from what you can see in America in reality.
>>25739193
Oh ok, where are there forests and Desserts in New York City?
>>25739202
>your complaint holds no ground because the terrain isn't too different from America
Humoring you here, how is any of this relevant? You completely missed the point. I don't even care for your reasoning behind thinking this at this point. It's complete and utter non-sequitur. You're setting the conditions and therefore think you're right despite completely missing the point.
>>25739208
Forced justification for regional variety.
Another key issue with the design of Unova.
>>25739208
>where are there forests
There were forests there once
>and Desserts
Where is the desert in Kyushu? Where is the desert in France?
>>25739053
>don't have the self-control to do it without the game literally forcing them to.
That's not it, anon. It makes the whole region feel unique. How many species can you find living on opposite ends of the earth?
>>25739241
>>25739208
If they weren't so obvious about it it'd be fine. But the changes are too abrupt. It's essentially FF13-2. Just make it about teleportation and time-travel already.
>>25739268
Don't respond to people resorting to ad hominem.
Don't respond to people just answering their own strawman argument.
Nothing to be gained there
>>25738963
The general story and progression of BW2 is better also. XY is good the 1st time, but has little value in terms of being replayable. It's definitely fun the first time though.
As for platinum it's a pretty good game. It's actually the last game I completed. I tried to play diamond when it first came out, but thought it sucked and skipped the gen 4 main games entirely. Went back to platinum about 2 years ago and had a lot of fun. It starts out pretty slow but picks up around the middle.
>>25739229
>how is any of this relevant?
Your original complaint was about the terrain suddenly changing.
I pointed out that it doesn't.
You posted the image like it meant something.
I said that it's fairly common in reality.
What's hard to understand about this?
Of course you're trying to act as if you still have a point in the matter without adequately explaining the issue you still have.
>>25739094
>>25739208
>>25739241
Kanto is based on the southern part of the real-world Kanto region, which in real life is like 50% comprised of the Tokyo metro area, yet half of Pokemon Kanto isn't one giant city.
Johto is based on the Kansai region, which does not border the Kanto region despite Johto bordering Kanto in game.
Hoenn is based on Kyushu island which does not feature a desert or an ice cave or a massive caldera that people live in.
Sinnoh is based on Hokkaido which does not feature 3 giant lakes or a huge marsh.
Kalos is based on northern France which does not feature a desert or a snowy tunda.
Not to mention all of these regions are roughly the same size in the Pokemon world despite Hokkaido and France easily dwarfing all of the others in the real world.
Pokemon regions are not based 100% on their real-world inspiration.
>>25739301
I see, I implore you to reread the post you replied to and maybe one day you'll come to the actual conclusion and see your own errors.
>>25739394
Your post literally has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.
>>25738923
If I already played 2 is it worth getting the originals for story's sake?
>>25739430
No reason not to.
>>25739430
What >>>25739435 said.
Don't expect an overwhelming story though. It's still pokemon. If you've read books in your life you won't feel any real emotional feedback from Pokemon's story.
Then again, it's not that bad.
>>25738933
>t-the game has no flaws!
>you just don't know how to have fun like I do!
SUMMON THE DEFENSE FORCE
>>25739435
>>25739450
I mean worst case is that I have an extra cart for gen 5 nuzlockes and stuff anyway
>>25739368
That doesn't excuse the fact that Unova has regional inconsistencies that are far more glaring than any other Generation.
>>25739478
Such as?
>>25739501
Learn to read the thread. I'm not repeating myself.
>>25739368
Hokkaido actually have the lakes and the marshes tho. One of the lakes, the one of Snowpoint, is not actually as big as the other two, but they exist. And the marshland exists as well.
And about Kanto and Kansai bordering, both Kanto and Johto have parts that represent the province in between them. If you put their maps over the parts their represent in Japan, it will close normally.
>>25739551
Well you haven't listed any.
>>25739472
it's definitely an experience you miss out on when skipping. Unlike Sapphire/Ruby which can be experienced in Emerald.
The story was BAD in gen5, cause it was distractingly bad, whearas normally pokemon stories are just bad (I think gen 1 had the best "story" with the silph co takeover, but whatever). Literally %40 of the NPCs say something along the lines of "I love my pokemon we do stuff together" to drive home the point that it would be stupid to seperate humans and pokemon. Its obviously child's first imagery, which is fine for a child's game, but that doesn't make it exempt from criticism when adults are making points as to what the best or worst games are in the series. There is no reason to play Pokemon for story.
>>25739794
Tell the truth, you didn't play a Gen 5 games did you.
>>25739815
>reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee people are criticizing gen V they must be trolls
>>25739832
>crux of the argument is based on snippets found within the first five minutes of the game and doesn't address the later parts of the story
Well, at least you can say you tried.
>>25739794
>Literally %40 of the NPCs say something along the lines of "I love my pokemon we do stuff together"
The second time you run into Plasma people begin to question if what they're doing is right. By the end people have already started releasing their pokemon.
At least play the games anon.
>>25739859
>>25739815
I did play gen 5, what I said is the truth. Fine %40 of the NPCs say "But I love my pokemon, we do stuff together" or "Are Team Plasma right? Are we making our pokemon suffer?" Thats it.
>>25739973
>Fine %40 of the NPCs say "But I love my pokemon, we do stuff together" or "Are Team Plasma right? Are we making our pokemon suffer?"
That's still not an adequate description anon.
>>25739009
Really have to echo that last sentiment. The fact that the pokemon league is right in front of you but you can't go makes coming back so much more fun in concept. Not to mention the fact that the gym orders can be done however you want.
I personally love the concept of coming back to Pallet with 6 badges and surf and finally traveling the ocean that you see at the start of your journey. Contrast to one of my bros who goes to Cinnabar 3rd to last instead of 2nd. Just the fact that you can do that is more fun that linearity
>Complaining about linear Pokemon games
It's fucking Pokemon, what did you expect? It's a handheld kid's game.
I mean seriously, every time I see these threads I'm just at a loss. It's like watching Dora the Explorer and complaining about the lack of plot development. No fucking shit.
You're going to get the same shit every gen until the formula stops churning out $$$.
>>25738824
I did, made life super difficult when I didn't have flash.
>>25740133
>but it's for kids argument
I'm just baffled that people will respond to your argument as if it isn't a dead-beat topic. Why not be more original?
>>25739692
Yeah I'm kinda bummed out I didn't get to play it first since I couldn't find it cheap, but either way I'm sure it'll still be fun
I just started playing Black 1 recently and my only complaint is the fucking encounter rate. That shit is way too goddamn high.
>>25740797
Yeah and it doesn't even do that thing where you can't get an encounter 2 steps after one
>>25737753
>about figuring out where to go next.
pretty much every game tells you exactly where to go next.
>beat brock/misty
>i wonder if that fagget who was telling me to beat brock/misty is still there
>beat morty
>i wonder if those faggets are stil blocking the area?
>beat wattson
>i wonder....
>beat Maylene
>i wonder....
>>25737726
That's true. I definitely think this is a flaw of the BW games. BW2 is mostly the same but they take you on a more windy path.
>>25740859
That's a flaw with every game but the gen 1 games anon.
Especially in Gen 4.
>>25740855
>beat Maylene
>Can beat Crasher Wake before her
Either way, there is a difference. The other games have you access new areas from areas you've already visited so you aren't following a strict path. Unova is a strict path.
>>25738776
>You can't even do things differently when playing the other version
you know, besides the fact that there's other pokemon you can use for another playthrough.
plus non-linearity is overrated anyways
>waw I can skip surge and go straight to Koga, but I still have to fight every trainer because I'll be severly underleveled if I just beeline to Koga and get my shit slapped so really I'm just normally playing through the game except I sip gym leaders I have to fight anyway and they become a roflstomp because I'm so overleved for them anyway!!!!!
>>25740886
Gen 4 has like 3 gyms you can do in any order
>>25740897
That doesn't mean it's not linear anon.
>>25740886
>Gen 4
Is this the new deflection? It's not even true. Gen 4 is the same linearity as 2 and 3. Besides, every other region has a route structure more complex than a noose. Unova is on a whole other level of linear.
>>25739208
>forests
guess you never heard of Central Park.
>>25740920
>You can do these things in any order
>No haha that's linear
Are you retarded? That is the opposite of linearity.
>>25740926
>Is this the new deflection?
Nah, Gen 4 is just that shit.
>>25740993
>Gen 5 is bad
>B-but Gen 1 is bad
>Gen 5 is bad
>B-but Gen 6 is bad
>Gen 5 is bad
>B-but Gen 4 is bad
Can't wait for the next region. I wonder once you run out of regions to blame you'll find a reason to call Unova good?
>>25738940
>didn't fix anything from GSC
You're completely full of shit
Nobody can possibly deny that Unova is a straight line from the first gym to the last. The world feels almost claustrophobic. And despite this linearity, they're always telling you where to go next, like literally spelling it out for you every time.
It's not like in the previous games, like >>25740855 says. In this game it's literally "GO THERE NEXT".
Like if the guy outside Pewter city walking you to Brock's gym was in every city, and then waited for you outside the gyms. I found it kind of funny how something is ALWAYS happening at the other side of each gate that makes is so you can't pass yet until you fulfill all objectives in the previous city.
That's not my main gripe with these games though. After all, the world was pretty and had some nice and creative camerawork.
What I hate is how fucking slow scrolling through items in your bag is. I hate how the bottom screen does nothing, unless you turn on the dowsing machine. I hate how you have to turn off the dowsing machine to access the start menu. The pokedex is also shitty. I hate how you can't plant berries anywhere because muh dream world. There are more things I hate about these games that I can't remember right now but I really hope BW2 fixed all this stuff.
The visuals in battle are the absolute best though. I wish gen 4 had them.
Just let it slide OP, Gen 5 fags can't be reasoned with, they'll just drag every other gen down with them in a feeble attempt to make their waste of a gen not look as shitty
OP here, I'm kind of impressed. We've gone 140 posts without a single mention of gear and ice cream pokemon etc. I think the Pokemon of Gen 5 were the least of the problems (I like them for the most part)
>>25739368
>Hoenn
>Desert is in a canyon next to a volcano
>Could conceivably be a dry area
>Kalos
>Desert is a badlands area caused by dry soil and Power Plant shenanigans. And I think because the ancient weapon hit there when it was fired 3000 years ago? I forget if that was said, I haven't played X since it came out.
>Less believable but still conceivable. Made less conceivable by the shit official art for the Kalos map. If it wasn't portrayed as a circle there I would be inclined to accept it.
>Unova
>Desert is in the middle of grass and forest on all sides, flanked by 2 huge rivers
>No reason for it to be there at all
You can't deny that the Unovan desert is the most blatantly lazy design choice they've made in any region. It was done because they needed an excuse for why there was only a single route between Nimabas and Castelia on the wide central peninsula of Unova. An inhospitable desert is the obvious choice for something like that, but it was sown into the map like a piece of patchwork. Based solely on how the rest of Unova is, that desert should have been an ancient impenetrable forest with Mayan temples and shit. As it is, it only sticks out like a sore thumb.
>>25741101
Well, they were just more pokemon, weren't they? They fulfilled their purpose and whether their designs were bad or not is a matter of opinions.
The linearity and other stuff are objectively bullshit however. I can only imagine whoever thinks these games are the best is because they haven't played enough videogames and are still impressionable by videogame plots.
I liked the sprites. Especially Archeops's
Damn that was a good sprite
Damn.
>>25741013
>I wonder once you run out of regions to blame you'll find a reason to call Unova good?
Well the fact that it introduced infinite TMs is more than enough to call it good on it's own.
Then there was the ability to connect locally anywhere without the restriction of a Pokemon Center.
The Battle Box so you could always keep a team ready.
O-Powers which at the time were called Pass Powers.
Combining the Pokecenter and Marts
The Global link, which is still used now to track online play.
Speaking of online, trading directly from your box.
Being able to swap items between pokemon from the party menu.
Weather being a constant presence on the screen.
Oh yeah and the Ability headers.
Then there were little exclusive things like:
The EXP scaling
HMs aren't necessary during the story and they can be used any time.
Time being displayed during battle
Seasons
I could go on but you get the picture. Maybe you should stop being so attached to such a shitty gen anon.
>>25741172
Seriously. The amount of people who harp on about how good the story was in these games is nauseating. The points people seem to make when they up Gen 5 are
Older Protags
Good Story
N
>>25741234
Please, people only bring those up if people shit on them for no reason like so many do.
Most of the time it's shit like this >>25741219
>>25741234
Dont act like every generation doesnt have an aspect that people harp on as well.
>MUH KANTO
>MUH FRONTIER
>MUH FOLLOWING POKEMON
>MUH AMIE!
that's just how /vp/ is.
It was mostly likely due to the shit-ton of rumor mongering I heard back during B/W's initial release period, but I had always thought the desert was suppose to evoke a suspicious sense of being artificial due to the massive cityscape it was shared with.
As a result of that and the Murrica comparison, my first reaction on seeing the map artwork was "this entire place looks terraformed to hell and back
I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but I do admit it was an interesting experience to go through when the previous games focused on more naturally integrated habitation spots.
>>25741234
The story wasn't even good for Pokemon standards. The more story of Team Rocket reforming, and the actual subtle hints at your GSC rival being Giovanni's son is probably better than anything else in the series.
>>25741219
THIS.
I mean, the region itself seemed kinda gray and really limited. But there was a ton of improvements to the gameplay itself. Only thing I absolutely hate is having to beat the game or trade in order to get a pokemon from a previous gen.
>>25741219
All those stuff seems pretty minor compared to all the things that were removed or made worse from previous games. And most of them are limited to online or multiplayer anyways.
>HMs aren't necessary during the story and they can be used any time.
Now this is exactly what made the game lose the sense of adventure and instead was about simply walking from city to city.
>>25737726
Don't bother, the Unovabortions here are immune to logic and good taste in general. They're literally muh feels - the generation.
>>25738706
I skipped Brawly when I first played Ruby because he defeated me the first time I played so I never tried to fight him again because I thought I lost my occasion to beat him.
>>25741344
>that were removed or made worse from previous games.
And this is where you begin to list off a ton of gimmicks that didn't actually do anything for the game at all like following Pokemon and seals, right?
>And most of them are limited to online or multiplayer anyways.
Only two things there are strictly multiplayer features anon. The rest are fairly big improvements to the game, especially Pass Powers, infinite TMs and being able to connect with another player at any point in time on the overworld.
>Now this is exactly what made the game lose the sense of adventure and instead was about simply walking from city to city.
Except for the fact that you could explore the side areas at your own leisure at any point in time.
That's what made it an adventure but of course you wouldn't know because you didn't play the game.
>>25738030
Funny how many year's it's been and this picture still applies.
>>25741438
>And this is where you begin to list off a ton of gimmicks that didn't actually do anything for the game at all like following Pokemon and seals, right?
Not him but are you saying that after crap like seasons, time being displayed during battle, ability headers, HMs not being used in story and combining mart and centers were listed?
>>25741438
>you could explore the side areas at your own leisure
Except there were literally none.
>>25740855
IIRC no one tells you to beat Misty, but you're just going to be sitting on your ass until you do because you need to beat her to use cut.
>>25741448
Ugh as a "genwunner" and gen 2 fanboy this picture really makes me mad not going to lie. Especially the soundtrack bit. Everyone knows Gen2's soundtrack is far and away the best. FR/LG's is also better than RSE. The rest is whatever.
>>25741453
>time being displayed during battle, ability headers, HMs not being used in story and combining mart and centers were listed?
Elaborate as to how these are gimmicks anon and not improvements to the game?
Hell, a clock on the screen should be a thing to begin with.
Seasons however is a gimmick which is why I put it under neat little exclusives.
>>25741463
So what you're saying is you didn't play the game. I bet you didn't even explore the Moor of Icirrus, Mistralton Cave or even route 17 and 18.
This is just further proof that people complain about games they know nothing of.
>>25738070
They make a point of showing that the cities were built around the desert and development is slowly overtaking it
Sinnoh has a tropical island and volcano located ABOVE it's town that is snowing due to how north it is.
>>25741448
Someone should update this with "best selling remake".
>>25741512
>Elaborate as to how these are gimmicks anon and not improvements to the game?
The clock is a gimmick. It isn't needed. It doesn't add to the game. When aren't you going to have a clock of some kind on your person? Time doesn't really effect anything in Gen 5 unlike other gens anyway.
HMs not being needed is a gimmick as it does nothing. In fact it takes away from the game and makes the world more bland. I'm not saying I want every HM needed all the time so I need to carry around a slave but needing to surf in the story every once in a while would be nice as it makes the world more believable.
Mart and Centers being combined again, do nothing. They were almost always right next to each other. It's nice that they are integrated but it's not a necessity.
Everyone says B2/W2 were the best, not the first ones. And I liked the region personally. Some really nice locations and I love the music.
>>25741531
But that's wrong.
>>25741549
>The clock is a gimmick. It isn't needed. It doesn't add to the game.
You're playing a game with time based events that work in real time, a clock should be present at all times.
>HMs not being needed is a gimmick as it does nothing.
Except for removing the part of the game fans have been complaining about for years.
>In fact it takes away from the game and makes the world more bland.
Wrong, see the exploration part of my last post, also the fact that it wasn't tied to gym badges and such gave the player much more freedom to traverse the region however they wanted rather than wait on a certain late game leader and return to it.
>but needing to surf in the story every once in a while would be nice as it makes the world more believable.
That seems like an arbitrary thing to make a world belivable, after all in reality there are regions that can link up with bridges or are just one large land mass.
>Mart and Centers being combined again, do nothing.
Two words, player convenience.
Having them separated served no purpose and only took the player out of the way.
>>25741448
>tetris
This is the same people that count wii sports as the best selling game of all time.
>>25741561
Not counting digital sales they've long since passed HG/SS
>>25741219
So how is Sinnoh shit? Apart from reusable TMs, which I am thankful for, those are mostly small things. Sinnoh and Gen 4 gave us:
>Physical/Special Split
>Wi-Fi play
>The GTS
>The VS Recorder
>Hidden Power Checker
>IV Checker
>Super Contests, ribbons included
>Underground Secret Bases with local play
>Possibly the best postgame in a single region in Platinum with the Battle Frontier, Gym Rematches, a Customisable Villa and a whopping 6 postgame routes (also present in DP along with the Battle Tower)
>Possibly the best postgame period in HGSS with the Battle Frontier, Gym Rematches and a whole new region
>Tightly designed and cohesive region
>Good lore
>Good level scaling
>From Platinum, very good Pokemon availability
>Morning/Day/Night variable Pokemon availablity
>Poketch
>Running indoors
>Bike gears
I get not being that crash hot about DP, but they still introduced the huge physical/special split, Wi-Fi play and the GTS along with a couple of smaller things from my list. Those alone were bigger changes than anything from Gen 5, which in the first place was mostly based around upgraded Gen 4 assets - such as the engine, all pre-Unova sprites and the 3D building/tiled ground overworld system (that one which was done better in DPPtHGSS anyway). Add the improvements from Platinum, and consider HGSS for good measure, and I don't know how anyone could call Gen 4 "shit". And, thanks to the DS boom and TV being more prevalent than nowadays so it could get more advertising from the anime, it sold the most pokemon games since Gen 1 as well. From almost any standpoint, I think most would say it was a great generation of Pokemon. No argument.
>>25738030
You can battle Wake before Maylene in Diamond and Pearl.
>>25741600
>game with time based events
Like what?
>Except for removing the part of the game fans have been complaining about for years.
But not in a good or believable way. Fans wanted you to have alternatives to HMs so they didn't have to teach the moves to their Pokemon or carry around a slave.
>Wrong, see the exploration part of my last post, also the fact that it wasn't tied to gym badges and such gave the player much more freedom to traverse the region however they wanted rather than wait on a certain late game leader and return to it.
Except you still have to wait until you get the HM to use them. The world is still bland with very little exploration even with HMs.
>That seems like an arbitrary thing to make a world belivable, after all in reality there are regions that can link up with bridges or are just one large land mass.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't I surf OR take the bridge?
>Two words, player convenience.
Having them separated served no purpose and only took the player out of the way.
It's literally like 10 steps. If they want to convenience the player, have Pokemon Centers instant heal my mons instead of going through the animations.
>>25738940
Oh shit, HGSS is becoming the cool game to hate now.
>>25738919
To be fair, Johto had plains, forests and caves, but also an ice cave, a snowy peak and a few rain routes. Varied, but in a different way.
>>25739021
Are you retarded
>>25739208
Are YOU retarded?
>>25741600>>25741600
>>but needing to surf in the story every once in a while would be nice as it makes the world more believable.
>That seems like an arbitrary thing to make a world belivable, after all in reality there are regions that can link up with bridges or are just one large land mass.
I'm coming in super late to your guys argument, but I think the reason HMs are good is like the same reason metroid is so fun to play. Obviously it's to a lesser extent in Pokemon, but there is a small joy to seeing an obstacle that you can't traverse, only to get an HM later and knowing exactly what to do with it. This is still present in Black and White, but mainly as secret bonus areas, but I think having story progress halted by these obstacles really helps the game feel less like a straight line like the reason this entire thread was made, especially when said obstacle was in a previous town.
BW just kind of moved forward at all times. It never felt like you were going back, or sideways if you know what I mean? The way HMs are handled might be a bit annoying. Why can't they be forgotten? If I were to design it, I wouldn't make them moves, but more just abilities granted to your Pokemon that you can select on the Pokemon menu
>>25741600
>Clock
Literally a useless gimmick, at least no more useful that, I don't know, maybe being able to toggle autorunning
>HMs
They were still needed outside the story. What are you gonna do, just play through the story and then drop the game because you didn't want to use HMs? What people want is for HMs to be replaced with something else that doesn't require you to waste move slots or carry slaves around, not to have a bland world that has not a single puddle of water or cave maze between your hometown and the league.
>Mart and centers
One word, gimmick. Again no more useful than, I don't know, maybe being able to plant berries or having something useful on the touchscreen.
Honestly the only actually useful thing it added was unlimited HMs.
>Inb4 Seasons
Seasons meant I had to mess around with the system's date to see certain things because I sure as hell ain't going to play this game more than 3 months.
>>25738046
You could only do 3 gym leaders in Johto. You can do 2 in Sinnoh. You can skip Brawly and Ramos in Hoenn and Kalos, though they are massively inconvenient.
>>25741658
>>25741634
Just do away with Marts as a whole. Let me order what I want through the phone or something.
Lets not even get into how easy Gen 5 is. With trainers waiting to heal your Pokemon in every dungeon and gift Pokemon out the ass.
>>25741634
>Like what?
http://www.serebii.net/blackwhite/dailyevent.shtml
Especially the Royal Unova, Sports arena and Weather Stones
>But not in a good or believable way.
Define "good and believable".
>Fans wanted you to have alternatives to HMs so they didn't have to teach the moves to their Pokemon or carry around a slave.
Lets be honest here, the move and slave factor hasn't been an issue in the game for years now. The only thing that was stopping it from being "believable" is that a chunk of metal stopped you from somehow performing these things.
>Except you still have to wait until you get the HM to use them.
Trading.
>The world is still bland with very little exploration even with HMs.
Objectively wrong, the game has several explorable side areas within the game.
>Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't I surf OR take the bridge?
I think the real question would be why would you surf rather than take the bridge. Also I don't think even trainers in the Pokemon world can survive a drop like that in any case have the village bridge you can do both.
>It's literally like 10 steps.
Irrelevant.
It's still much more convent to the player, if you were arguing the scale of the improvement you would have a point however but that's now what the argument is about is it?
>>25738561
>Cut
Cut is the worst TM. Even strength at least has 80 BP. I hate that BW2 started putting in more trees to cut as well after they had been moving away from the move since GSC.
>>25741674
You forgot about Winona for Hoenn.
>>25741692
*HM
>>25741696
Oh yeah. Her too.
>>25741690
>the game has several explorable side areas within the game.
That's great and all senpai but it's still very little compared to previous regions.
>>25739394
"maybe one day you'll come to the actual conclusion and see your own errors" is so obviously "I have no argument" that this might as well be bait.
>>25741163
>the game doesnt tell me why it can exist so it cant exist
>>25741448
Hoennbabbies are honestly the worst fanbase
>>25741710
Eh, that's debatable.
I'd say it's tied with Johto in that regard.
>>25741618
You forgot a big one
>Touch Screen
God, 4 was good. Success breeds jealousy. But all others were still good except Unova.
>>25741690
>Only the weather stones. Everything else is once a day. Unless you don't know when tomorrow is you'll be fine.
>Define "good and believable".
I already did as did another poster
>Lets be honest here, the move and slave factor hasn't been an issue in the game for years now
Sure it has. OR/AS just had us use like 8 HM in a game.
>Trading.
Congrats. You broke the game.
>Objectively wrong, the game has several explorable side areas within the game.
They're all bland like White City and Black Forest. Only Chargestone Cave has any interesting aesthetics and it sucks.
>I think the real question would be why would you surf rather than take the bridge. Also I don't think even trainers in the Pokemon world can survive a drop like that in any case have the village bridge you can do both.
Sight seeing. Exploring the world in Pokemon games can be fun when it's allowed. Why would I want to walk across a bland long bridge when I could take a route that can be pleasing to the eyes?
>>25741610
Nope
>>25741163
And if it was just the desert in Unova being out of place it would just be a single exception. But most things feel secluded. It definitely feels like it's just trope after trope. I wish there was a more natural progress.
>>25741721
(You)
>>25741448
>Hoenn is the best region
Christ, I loved OR/AS, but Hoenn is still a shit region.
>>25741750
I'm guessing this is for insulting hoenbabbies? I can tell because you are literally the worst.
>>25741773
>>25741618
>GTS was glitched as fuck
>VS recorder is a GEN 3 addition
>IV checker is GEN 3
>Super contests had the fun elements removed such as jamming and combos as well as lowering the overall difficulty
>Secret bases had the best element removed, saving your friend's bases and battling their trainer
>Battle Frontier had the total facilities reduced from 7 to 5 removed the unique facilities and turned them into tower clones
> a Customisable Villa
>customisable
Okay stop, the thing wasn't customizable at all you bought the furniture and that was it, they were stuck there and you couldn't move it at all if you think that's customization you're an idiot.
>HG/SS repeated Platinum's post game which was an inferior version of Emerald's post game
>Kanto was still devoid of things to do outside of a legendary hunt where unlike gen 6 the legendaries had nothing special (3 perfect IVs) to them making capture essentially meaningless
>Tightly designed and cohesive region
You do know that the entire reason we have linear games is because Japs found 4 confusing right? That doesn't exactly fit your description if the main audience finds it confusing.
>Lore was way over the top and the story was a rehash of RSE in terms of progression
>morning and day pokemon availability only served to hinder the player forcing them to either wait or change the system time
>Poketch was filled with Junk apps that were nigh useless
>Bike gears were entirely pointless
The only decent additions made in gen 4 were
>Physical/Special Split
>Wi-fi Play
>Hidden Power Checker
>Running indoors
Level scaling is a given too bad they didn't fix the scaling in HG/SS
>>25737726
Too much plasma shit it got fucking annoying when Team Plasma was involved in everything including the gym leaders, they continued that stupid shit in BW2 as well and its worse there because Plasma are le terrorist ninja pirates hurr.
>>25741721
The geography of it makes no sense. You don't need to be given a reason for something that makes geographic sense - such as Hoenn's desert. You do need a reason for something that blatantly doesn't - as Kalos' desert had and Unova's desert did not.
>>25741740
I don't think it was that bad (desert excluded) until BW2 put Mexico and a lava cave next to a temperate beach resort and tropical Hawaii on the same latitude as the ice city. Hoenn did a variety of environments the best and Sinnoh did cohesiveness the best.
>>25738996
Deserts dont go next to volcanos anon.
Volcanoes have the richest soil.
>>25741805
Ever been to the drier side of Oregon?
Volcanic dust deserts do exist. Sometimes, even with volcanic soils, you can have a dry area.
>>25741803
You know the real world's geography is a lot less rigid than you think right? You yourself (I'm assuming) had to defend a desert being in Hoenn where a tropical jungle should have been instead, including >>25741837
Either way, the desert in Unova had several ruins, and so it was easy to guess they dong build over it due to being unable to dig up the area underneath.
Unova was a temperate region where the temperature changes with the seasons. There were no ice cities outside Winter and during the winter the Tropical places just got a little darker trees.
>>25741849
*dont instead of dong lol
>>25741734
>I already did as did another poster
And you didn't bother to link the post?
>Sure it has. OR/AS just had us use like 8 HM in a game.
In that regard I mean that they can be deleted once you're done with them, along with the infinite TMs that means that you don't have to worry about an empty slot.
>Congrats. You broke the game.
Which according to many is a good thing because it promotes exploration at the risk of punishment, the punishment being high leveled enemies.
>They're all bland like White City and Black Forest. Only Chargestone Cave has any interesting aesthetics and it sucks.
You've got the first two mixed up, It's White Forest and Black City, also postgame.
Chargestone cave is also main game.
I'm talking about Route 17 and 18.
The surf necessary part of Wellspring cave and Pinwheel Forest.
Moor of Icirrus
And so on and so forth.
Admittedly there isn't much in the original game until you reach the post game however Black and White 2 rectifies that issue by giving several optional and fairly large caves.
>Why would I want to walk across a bland long bridge when I could take a route that can be pleasing to the eyes?
I don't think below a bridge is as pleasing as you think it would be.
>>25741800
>GTS
It hasn't been good until Gen 6, but it was there.
>IV
>Recorder
You're right, my mistake. Did forget those ones. Haven't touched Gen 3 since it came out.
>Secret bases
Irrelevant since the point of the underground was to encourage local play.
>Postgame
Platinum's frontier is good but worse than Emerald's, but the additional stuff makes it a better postgame. 6 routes+Stark Mountain, all of which were quite long. The Rematches were better. You added to the Villa over time, it was a thing to do.
>Region
I don't consider kiddy linearity as a positive
>Lore
Subjective but 'over-the-top' is what appeals to the core audience. Was also not in your face and felt like a genuine part of the region's culture.
>Time based events
The same applies to seasons, which you praised, but tenfold.
>Positives
If you just consider the 4 things you personally think are positives, it is better than the 1 thing from Unova.
>>25737726
Other than one instance in the first generation when you could tackle one gym out of sequence, due to bad planning on game freak's part rather than a desire for a nonlinear game, can you name one instance where Pokemon hasn't been pretty much on the rails until you beet the e4? The locations you visit has always been controlled by road blocks, gym badges and HM abilities. Anybody that goes on about one game being more or less linear than another is either mis-remembering, trolling or has never played another Pokemon game.
Most of the time the games follow the exact same structure; gyms in order, evil team appears around gym 2, evil team defeated around gym 6/7 you beat your rival around the 8th gym or they are the champion if there has not been someone older than you who everyone seems to know and occasionally gives you advice/items. BW changed this formula slightly with the twist in the endgame and had more fleshed out gym leaders than most of the other games and that is why it gets praised so much, they didn't reinvent the wheel but put some new hubcaps on it at least. The new Pokemon were welcome too because it stopped players from feeling on the same Pokemon they had been every time for the past few gens.
>>25737726
B2W2 >>>>>>>>>> BW
>>25741935
>Irrelevant since the point of the underground was to encourage local play.
Then why remove the part of secret bases that encouraged local play?
On top of that the underground had unbearable input lag and in a place with traps and a capture the flag minigame it feels incredibly clunky.
>6 routes+Stark Mountain, all of which were quite long.
The routes weren't particularly long and due to Stark's zoomed out perspective extremely easy to navigate. At the most I would say it lasts about 45 minutes for a new player? Of course that's not counting the Frontier.
As for the Villa it was just a money sink where you could talk to a handful of NPCs. There was nothing particularly special to it.
>I don't consider kiddy linearity as a positive
Nor do I but you can't go too far in the other direction to the point where the audience with the most influence find it difficult. In all honesty I would say Hoenn or Johto were the better regions in that regard.
>Subjective but 'over-the-top' is what appeals to the core audience.
Wrong kind of over the top, if it were of the Gurren Lagann variety then it would be a bit more understandable considering who they're appealing to but they bumped Pokemon up to literal god status without that additional oomph to put emphasis their power, it was all talked about by Cyrus for the most part so it didn't have that same effect.
>The same applies to seasons, which you praised, but tenfold.
One, I mentioned it under little things and didn't bring it up again, which is why I neglected to highlight it in one of the other posts here.
Two while seasons changed the encounter rate and I think the availability of one or two pokemon, they didn't hinder the player as much as day and night availability because you could capture it at any point within the season.
>If you just consider the 4 things you personally think are positives, it is better than the 1 thing from Unova.
There's more than enough to match that anon but character limit.
>>25741849
I'm aware that the real world's geography is very complex, but it follows rules. It's not wild wacky and crazy which is why Europe getting hot water via the Atlantic jetstream makes the region warmer instead of colder.
Hoenn's Volcano blew the ash north, which is why the air in Verdanturf was clean and route 113 was ashy. The desert in Hoenn is in a canyon and so it is reasonable to assume it blocks rain. When I look at it I can see it as a small scale version of how the Taklamakan Desert in China works. The best real world comparison to Unova's I can think of is Baja California but that's far from a perfect comparison. It's not a Sahara style desert and is not surrounded on all sides by forest. So it doesn't really work. It's an extension of the larger desert in Mexico so it isn't really its own thing.
I question Unova's desert because it is surrounded to the south by a grassy strip where Castelia is, and to every other direction either by forests or water and then forests. Region's aren't continent sized, so I can't see a reason that rain would avoid such a specific area on a small scale. Even then, the transition from the desert almost immediately into the Entralink Forest with only Nimbasa and 2 routes in between simply doesn't happen without mountains. It's why I say it's patchwork. It's placed in the map with very jarring transitions to the surrounding area.
I think they would have been better off with a thick forest as an excuse for 1 route across such a large peninsula, and overgrown Mayan-style temples for the former Desert Resort. As you said, Unova is a temperate region, and temperate regions typically don't have hot sahara-style sandy deserts for no good reason. It would fit better with the BB2/WW2 contrast between encroaching or not encroaching on the environment along Route 4.
Quoted post wasn't me.
playing black 2 right now, trying to get a heracross via hidden grottos and want to die
surely theres a faster way of doing this
I really want to play challenge mode but I don't know anyone who has Black 2. I have a DSi and a 3DS, so I figure the easiest way would be to buy and beat Black 2 as fast as possible, then Buy White 2/Black 2 again and transfer Challenge mode over as soon as possible. What's the fastest Team to beat Black 2 with? I'm assuming Magnemite, Riolu, and Huge Power Azurill? Do you think Black 2 or White 2 is better? Is there something I'm missing?
>>25737726
This is why you play BW solely for the story and then play everything BW2 has to offer.
>>25742011
I think your points are fair but the main one that speaks to me is
>character limit
We could trade 1500 word long posts all we want, but we've got to the point that we'd just be arguing about semantics. Like seasons weren't more convenient since you'd have to wait 1-3 months for a Bearctic if you were not in Winter and stuff. I've said what I want about Sinnoh, and I think the point that Sinnoh was far from shit was conveyed. You may not like it, personally I do. Same as how I don't like Unova and presumably you do. But objectively it was heavily meritable for the wide array of changes it introduced and for early-mid DS tech it did what it wanted to do as well as could be expected. I think that's fair to say, yeah?
>>25742055
Ok, while dont see it as being as jarring as you do, I actually do understand where you come from now as to why you have that opinion. Also, I never noticed the Entralink thing. It's so disconnected from everything else that I barely remember it when thinking about Unova geography.
However, looking at the map (not the in game map) It seems like that entire landmass was likely a lot drier, and that the lower forests next to Castelia (which arent that big) managed to grow after the area developed. Maybe an oasis type thing that grew into a large city
So it makes more sense looking at it as something that popped up in the desert, than a desert popping up in something
Good catch on the ash blowing north, I completely forgot.
Hope this thread is here when I wake up, I really started to enjoy this and you have good points. A thick forest would have arguably been better.
>>25738923
>BW2 is a superior game in terms of the Pokémon, music, and graphics
>graphics
What? Are BW2 fags really so desperate that they need to make up BS like that? The graphics are literally the same.
>>25741948
BW>>>>>>>>>BW2
Suck it.
The people itt who complain about linearity always remind me of my cat. If you pick it up and place it on the couch or something it will complain and jump off only to return on its own 5 minutes later. Even though it wanted to sit on that couch, it wants to have to option to do so instead of being forced to.
>>25742400
dubs wasted on shit opinion
>>25743230
More like dubs confirm :^)
>>25738030
BW2 is very misleading because you take a plane so you do take a straight line east
>>25743291
>dubs confirm greatness
>BW2 is dubs BW
Actually, now that I think about it, that makes perfect sense
>>25743318
Whatever you say, BW2 babby
>>25743363
Thanks, it's good to know you agree with me
>>25737791
What, no, this didn't happen. People's parents don't complain to video game companies on behalf of their children having a bad time in a video game, right? If this is true, this is the lamest thing I've read today
Kanto's map is still the best, right?
>can choose to fight Misty or Surge, Erika or Koga, Sabrina or Blaine first
>can get to Fuchsia by either the west or east
>same for Cinnabar
>>25743414
Nope, Kanto's map is objectively the worst
>grasslands
>forest
>glasslands
>a cave
>grasslands
>grasslands
>grasslands
>a cave
>grasslands
>grasslands
>grasslands
>grasslands, bike edition
>water
>ice cave
>water
>return to the grasslands
>one last cave
>all this shit occsionally broken up by urban segments which are generally a mixture between frustrating and hideous to look at.
absolutely no variety.
>>25741448
I'm glad Hoennfags got the worse remake.
>>25743414
As far as linearity it's best. As far as route design I think it's the worst. The stretch from Lavender Town to Fuchsia City is probably my least favourite part of any Pokemon Game. Also Cut is much more of a requirement than in the other games, forcing you to keep the worst HM around. Designers of Fuschia City should be shot.
>>25743440
The ice cave and desert canyon in the seveii islands were amazing though. Not to mention the bug maze
>>25742569
Personally I'm sick of open world shit, just grab my hand and drag me to the next gym leader, I will explore when I feel like it.
>>25741805
Literally explained here. It's both intentional from a scientific and a lore-related standpoint
read >>>25739125
>>25741803
>I don't think it was that bad
It definitely still was an issue in BW1. Which (ignoring the first 2 games since hardware limitations) from gen 3 and onwards it really felt like Unova just didn't bother with it. Having a variety of locations is nice at first, it makes sense having tons of different pokemon in varied locations, but the way they're tacked together feels lazy. Really lazy. Which is only an issue starting with gen V.
>>25744010
Sevii islands are a different region
The whole point of a Pokemon game is to get the sense of adventure and exploration, it's the whole reason the Pokemon world has been so well built this far and it separates Pokemon games from other RPGs out there. You play as yourself with your own journey, it doesn't make sense to make it linear.
That said, OP - BW2 was much better than B/W. It's less linear, has a greater variety of Pokemon, better replay value and feels much more like a Pokemon game than B/W did with its overloaded anime tropes.
