What happened to his personality?
He became naruto
>>25690474
Which is, quite sadly, an improvement.
>>25689939
how did his personality change? he is still a stupid faggot
I think he is a bit more mature now. Still naive but more down to earth. It would make sense if he was Kanto ash 2ish years later. Too bad the anime is terrified of making him older
![Pokémon SE2 EP101 - The Mandarin Island Miss Match.avi_snapshot_05.26_[2016.03.02_16.47.35].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/C6PoxxN.jpg "Pokémon SE2 EP101 - The Mandarin Island Miss Match.avi_snapshot_05.26_[2016.03.02_16.47.35].jpg")
>>25690496
They toned down his cocky attitude and made him a little nicer
Fuck off.
He's the best version of himself because he's got the best company he's had in ages.
It kinda makes sense how the ape girl and the green faggot made him utter shit under their awful influence.
So now, he's quite confident, still adventurous, and also a capable trainer that actually trains (it's been seen in several episodes) and uses strategy instead of winging it like before. There's nothing out of character, just what he's supposed to be after all these years.
XYZ Ash is best Ash.
>>25689939
Ash's personality is still there when there's actual focus on it. He's still the energetic trainer who is dedicated to his Pokemon and helping others, and is still prone to occasionally acting rashly during certain situations and jumping to the call.
What changed was his blatant immaturity and ignorance in regards to Pokemon battling that he had in the beginning. He went from an immature child who couldn't really handle situations on his own, to being a person that is capable of providing some knowledge and support to his friends.
If anything, the problem simply lies in the anime just not putting emphasis onto it as much.
>>25689939
It got bettter? He's more mature now and acts like the big brother of the group. Much better trainer now too.
>>25690533
He's a Marty Stu traveling with a Mary Sue and LOL SCIENCE XDDD. The one single saving grace of the XY garbage is Bonnie, and she still has the KEEPU crap she spews every few episodes.
>>25690523
This too. He started out cocky with the mentality that he could do anything. However, his adventures and experiences have tempered him into what he is now. He can still have shades of cockiness, but he's more mature.
>>25690586
>Marty Stu traveling with a Mary Sue
And once again, we have someone who doesn't understand what they are saying at all, and simply likes to toss out these words out of sheer ignorance.
My favorite Ash episode is the one where he gets Hawlucha. He reminds me a lot of Bruno from late Kanto in that one, except younger and more energetic. He's very laid back and carefree, but he has a lot of wisdom from his travels. He's also willing to get hit with a Flying Press as part of Hawlucha's training and laugh it off afterward.
Really, I never thought much of Ash as a character before XY, but he's really entertaining to watch now.
>>25690615
Ash
>Wins 99% of the time
>makes friends with fucking everyone that isn't part of an evil team, including Gym Leaders, Elite Four and Champions
>was literally an OC shonen inserted into the existing Pokemon world from the beginning of the anime
>goes up against criminal organizations and defeats them
>uses a special power that no one else can (Ash-Greninja)
>oh by the way he's also had aura since the Lucario movie because ????
Serena
>has only lost once
>established as knowing Ash from a summer camp years ago even though that was never established previously
>also makes friends with literally everyone
>DURR THEY'RE NOT MARY SUES CUZ I SAID SO BUZZWORD BUZZWORD REEEEEEEE DON'T INSULT MY PRECIOUS ANIME!!!!!
>>25690474
I can see it
>Naruto was cocky, arrogant, idiot that never listened to anyone in part I, his fighting strategies sucked
>Over the course of part I he tones it down a bit but still has that goofball cockiness to him still, his strategies are a bit better
>In part he is still cocky but most of that is gone, still an idiot his fighting is much more improved and he actually puts a bit of thought into his fights
>In the end, he's more mature and has a better understanding of being a ninja
>>25690586
He loses too often to be considered a Marty Sue.
>>25690690
He loses like once per season. That's not enough to override winning every other time. He's also got several other Marty Stu qualities.
![[PM]Pocket_Monsters_XY_028_Enter_Champion_Carne!_Mega_Sirknight_in_Mist!![H264_720P][F43A9BAD].mkv_snapshot_13.41_[2016.02.27_20.16.05].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n2LHagQ.jpg "[PM]Pocket_Monsters_XY_028_Enter_Champion_Carne!_Mega_Sirknight_in_Mist!![H264_720P][F43A9BAD].mkv_snapshot_13.41_[2016.02.27_20.16.05].jpg")
>>25690600
The last time I saw him cocky was when he challenged Diantha, but I think he was just being stupid.
>>25689939
>his
>>25690683
>he watched it
>>25690713
Even then, I don't think he intended to win that match. He just wanted the thrill of the battle.
>>25690487
>Implying Naruto's characterizaion wasnt pretty good
actually reading the manga!= reading /a/
I do agree it would be an improvement since anyhting that's not Ash is automatically better.
>>25690520
>I think he is a bit more mature now.
Sure thing anon
>>25690586
So, from now on, every time a character grows or shows a bit of development, it's automatically a Mary Sue?
Just because you know a meme doesn't mean you have to use it in every conversation, son.
By the way, Clemont is a nice way to have comic relief without having the same retarded joke over and over (Brock, ahem) but whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Same applies for Serena which happens to be the first to actually show interest in Ash (and again either like it or not, it's fine) and the Keepu shit is only because you watch retarded dub. She doesn't do annoying crap in the original one.
If Ash loses too much, everyone hates him for being incompetent. If he wins all the time he's called a marty stu.
They made him into a cardboard cutout.
>>25690690
Dont you fags always say he hasnt lost in like 80 episodes or so?
>>25690681
>DURR THEY'RE NOT MARY SUES CUZ I SAID SO BUZZWORD BUZZWORD REEEEEEEE DON'T INSULT MY PRECIOUS ANIME!!!!!
Having fun?
>>25690713
That's not even cockiness. That's his dream. If your lifelong goal is to be the best Smash player in the world and you bump into ZeRo at the supermarket, you're gonna challenge him right then and there, even though you know it's inconveniencing him and you're being kind of a shit.
If you want to be a Pokemon Master and you bump into a Champion, you battle them. Plain and simple.
>>25690749
Ash apologists always say people should see each season as a COMPLETELY NEW CHARACTER, so his previous loses shouldnt count.
It's their fault.
![[PM]Pocket_Monsters_XY_028_Enter_Champion_Carne!_Mega_Sirknight_in_Mist!![H264_720P][F43A9BAD].mkv_snapshot_13.55_[2016.02.27_20.18.24].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FL5LrkL.jpg "[PM]Pocket_Monsters_XY_028_Enter_Champion_Carne!_Mega_Sirknight_in_Mist!![H264_720P][F43A9BAD].mkv_snapshot_13.55_[2016.02.27_20.18.24].jpg")
>>25690737
I couldn't tell either, I just remember him rambling on about pokemon master this pokemon master that and Diantha just staring at him like there was something wrong with him
>>25690775
People actually say that? How do you honestly tell someone that they should see the main character of each series as a completely new one when it isn't and is the same character?
>>25690681
They're still not Mary Sues, by definition.
>>25690761
He was always a damn cardboard cutout.
I don't get this whole thread. The anime has never been good, and never will be. The only thing it's gotta do is get kids interested in Pokemon and it succeeds at that, so it'll never change.
>>25690775
The storytelling changes when the director changes. Some directors write Ash as a chucklefuck. Some write him as a competent action bastard.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say you didn't watch the show and have no clue what you're talking about.
>>25690734
I've been reading it since I was younger. I've seen when it became a train wreck and everything but honestly couldn't drop it because I've been reading it for so long. I guess?
>>25690794
>He was always a damn cardboard cutout
No, before XY he actually had a personality.
Imagine if people actually watched the show they're so determined to have strong opinions about.
>>25690804
>he can read
>>25690734
Sometimes you start reading a series around the time it first begins, and then keep going even if it ends up questionable under the idea that you might as well finish it.
But then sometimes you finally go 'screw this shit' and stop.Bleach was the latter
>>25690791
No, they say he develops each season (except BW, but that was a disaster overall that no one defends).
>>25690815
How does he not have a personality in XY?
>>25690821
Careful with that logic there, Anon.
>>25690835
This is me.
I followed Naruto from the beginning and hated part II but still kept reading it.
I dropped Bleach so hard I don't even remember any of it.
>>25690791
>People actually say that?
Yes, just to explain how inconsistent he is.
>How do you honestly tell someone that they should see the main character of each series as a completely new one when it isn't and is the same character?
>ashfags
>being anything remotely close to rational
>>25690798
>The storytelling changes when the director changes. Some directors write Ash as a chucklefuck. Some write him as a competent action bastard.
So he's inconsistent, yeah.
>If I didn't know any better, I'd say you didn't watch the show and have no clue what you're talking about.
I was talking about what ash apologists said, not how the show actually is.
>>25690821
I love it when people bring the "U have not watched it" card yet they never point out something wrong in the other anon's post.
>>25690773What if Armada bumped into ZeRo?
>>25690734
>on the same board where people watched pokemon
>complains about people watching Naruto
I don't blame Ash, I blame the writers and directors
Ash was supposed to grow from cocky to humble, ignorant to enlightened, rookie to master
It seems like the anime is a zero sum game, they can't write Ash out or develop him because he is ingrained into fans as something eternal but if they keep him the same he will become unpopular
>>25690835pokemon edgeventures is definitely reaching this point
>>25690881
He literally cannot go to being a master without them be willing to dump his ass afterwards.
It'd be boring as fuck to watch him just win everything without question. It's a hard line to walk, to make him just imperfect enough to be interesting, without him seeming outright idiotic or cruel to his pokemon.
I'd say the directors did the best they could with what they were given, some better than others.
>>25690901
He doesn't have to win all the time just more than he does now.
>>25690881
Ash's not a real person, he doesnt exist outside what the writers and directors do with him.
>>25690897
-tips fedora-
>>25690901
>It'd be boring as fuck to watch him just win everything without question. It's a hard line to walk, to make him just imperfect enough to be interesting, without him seeming outright idiotic or cruel to his pokemon.
Similar franchises pulled this well.
>I'd say the directors did the best they could with what they were given, some better than others.
No, this is a common bullshit ashfags say. There's no external conditions forcing them to keep Ash from progressing or to even keep him in the show. Stop saying this.
Didn't the Yu-Gi-Oh series eventually replace Yugi? Surely it's not impossible to replace Ash, right? The real issue would be Pikachu and Team Rocket. I can't see them ever not having a protagonist that uses a Pikachu for mascot points, and I also doubt Team Rocket would be replaced either, so they'd just latch on to some other trainer with a powerful Pikachu once Ash becomes a champion or whatever.
Honestly, thinking of all the ways they would half-ass "moving on" from Ash, I almost don't think the attempt would even be worth it.
>>25690940
>There's no external conditions forcing them to keep Ash from progressing or to even keep him in the show.
Shareholders, producers, the people that write their paychecks?
>>25690773
Not after 1.1.5. Sheikbabies got BTFO. Fair trades waaaayyy more and they can't just needle camp anymore. At least the Sheik meta won't be as stale now.
I'm curious to see who ZeRo will pick up to compliment Diddy. RosaLuma or Pikachu most likely desu.
>>25690858
>Yes, just to explain how inconsistent he is.
>ashfags
>being anything remotely close to rational
m8, they don't. They say he's developed over the course of the series.
>So he's inconsistent, yeah.
He's been pretty consistent except from DP to BW and that was done by the same director.
>>25690943
>Didn't the Yu-Gi-Oh series eventually replace Yugi?
Yes. The current YGO series is far better than the current Pokemon series too.
![[a-s]_dragon_ball_movie_02_-_sleeping_princess_in_devils_castle__rs2_[45E1A6A1].mkv_snapshot_03.58_[2015.07.04_17.00.33].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JUwiWIq.jpg "[a-s]_dragon_ball_movie_02_-_sleeping_princess_in_devils_castle__rs2_[45E1A6A1].mkv_snapshot_03.58_[2015.07.04_17.00.33].jpg")
>>25690943
Yes, so did Digimon, and Gundam, so did the Pokemon games, the pokemon manga, and every other anime in existence
BUT
There are some anime where characters who are invaluable like Goku
Maybe they are trying to make Ash like Goku in a way
>>25690952
What holds them?
>>25690965
You already said he's inconsistent though. See? That's why its impossible to argue with you, you fags change the argument everytime.
>>25690968
>Yes. Any YGO series is far better than any Pokemon series too.
ftfy
>>25691007
The Pokemon anime is like if DBZ set Goku back to his first episode power level at the beginning of every season instead of escalating things as the story went on.
>>25691018
>What holds them?
The fear of losing money when they can't be 100% certain that changing things would make them more money.
>>25691018
Inconsistent with a general upward trend, you pedantic fagblaster
>>25691007
>There are some anime where characters who are invaluable like Goku
Goku had a development and a storyline that ended. Even if there are new installments, his journey had a closure(not to mention that Super will end eventually).
Ash is nothin like him and there's no intention in doing so.
>>25691018
I like that the old english dub voices for Pokemon did Yu-Gi-Oh too
>>25691018
Have you considered with multiple posters that the multiple viewpoints are coming from different people?
>>25690943
Did Yugi even have real development in the series? Besides not relying on the pharoah?
I don't think any Yu-Gi-Oh protagonist developed over the course of their series now that I think about it.
>>25691007
at least Goku visibly gets stronger and older each saga. Ash and his Pikachu don't.
>>25691038
>The Pokemon anime is like if DBZ set Goku back to his first episode power level at the beginning of every season instead of escalating things as the story went on.
Every new enemy bitch slaps Goku until he powers up to some new level. Bad analogy.
>>25691038
I agree, Goku is much more memorable because we see him from birth to when he becomes a grandfather. Ash is well... still 10
>>25691007
Goku started off at 12 years old. Now he's in in 40s and much stronger. Ash cannot be like him.
>>25690968
And you wanna know why? Because it is constantly referencing the previous sagas
The final fight for the main protagonist of the current arc is against the rival from 5D's.
>>25690968
>Didn't the Yu-Gi-Oh series eventually replace Yugi?
If you could even call it replacing, since again, it's more viable to keep bringing up the old stuff than new. Even after DM ended, Yugi was a central character in GX, and was featured in the 5D's movie Bond Beyond Time which was literally a time travel movie. Now we are getting ANOTHER movie starring Yugi in April.
Replacing Ash would do nothing good for the anime, and people need to realize that. If they bring a new character, which they have already done with Alain and Jimmy, Ash is still going to be around whether we like it or not because of the sole fact that people like Ash and Pikachu and they produce money.
>>25691057
jaden got fucked hard in season 3 of GX, so he got all edgy and serious, but that was more of a trauma thing than positive emotional development.
>>25691038
>The fear of losing money when they can't be 100% certain that changing things would make them more money.
How will not having Ash stop the games from being sold?
>>25691041
>upward
>his last feat, as usually cited by his fans has been like 10 years ago
>>25691048
They usually say the same few "arguments" that they change on the fly. It's not the first time this has been argued.
>>25691057
>>25691087
You guys should actually watch the show then.
>>25691057
I've watched the OS,5Ds and Arc-v and at least Yugi, Atem and Yuya develop.
Maybe Yusei too, but I dont remember it too well.
>>25691064
Just take the power up away and you pretty much have it.
>>25691064
There's still an escalation of force. Each new opponent is stronger than his old power threshold, forcing him to surpass his own limitations in order to defeat them. Ash does not have that escalation from season to season. Pikachu has essentially hit its peak as a glass cannon that can be easily captured when the plot demands it, and Ash will never take fully evolved Pokemon with him to a new region. Even his tactics don't really evolve between seasons, as he generally has to come up with new ones to suit his new team.
It fits perfectly.
>>25691086
>Yugi was a central character in GX
Nigga appeared like once, he didn't even have a face or voice.
![[T-N]Yu-Gi-Oh_Movie(Toei1999)[3538A60A]LD.avi_snapshot_28.11_[2015.10.02_21.56.59].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BnfTzft.jpg "[T-N]Yu-Gi-Oh_Movie(Toei1999)[3538A60A]LD.avi_snapshot_28.11_[2015.10.02_21.56.59].jpg")
>>25691057
No, but he did slap the shit out of ever stronger opponents with each arc. Yugi won a lot and was a great character
>>25691088
The anime itself brings in money on advertising. Kids don't like change, and this is 100% a children's show. If kids tune out because they miss Ash, they lose money.
Introducing a new character is risky.
>>25691098
I've watched from DM to Arc-V.
Admittedly, I'm only in the 50s when it comes to Arc-V since I haven't been keeping up lately.
I do remember Yuma getting better though.
>>25691108
What are you talking about? Yugi even dueled Jaden in the final two episodes.
>>25691098
tell me what i said wrong in >>25691087
yes, he got fixed in the end, but his personality was significantly effected for a good part of his arc.
>>25691086
>
If you could even call it replacing, since again, it's more viable to keep bringing up the old stuff than new. Even after DM ended, Yugi was a central character in GX, and was featured in the 5D's movie Bond Beyond Time which was literally a time travel movie. Now we are getting ANOTHER movie starring Yugi in April.
>A cameo is remotely similar to being the MC
Nigga, at this point Jack has been more relevant in Arc-V than Yugi in GX and 5D's combined.
>Replacing Ash would do nothing good for the anime, and people need to realize that
The main problem is the lack of development and closure. If you change MC, you're pretty much forced to add those. It's automatically better, even if badly executed.
> If they bring a new character, which they have already done with Alain and Jimmy
On special episodes, never to replace Ash. Yo may be actually retarded.
>Ash is still going to be around
There's literally no reason to think that way.
>because of the sole fact that people like Ash and Pikachu and they produce money.
Because the amount of merch made of Ash is stunning right?
Because there's only one Pikachu ever right?
>>25689939
>What happened to his personality?
Different writers change Ash Ketchum personality
>>25691132
>but that was more of a trauma thing than positive emotional development
Season 3-4 was all about Jaden going through emotional development.
>>25691018
>You already said he's inconsistent though. See? That's why its impossible to argue with you, you fags change the argument everytime.
I just literally said it happened one time and the people doing the anime know it was bullshit that they tried. Everything else has been consistent and the only inconsistency has been when it was the same director working.
>>25691116
>The anime itself brings in money on advertising.
Which Ash has nothing to do with.
> Kids don't like change, and this is 100% a children's show.
Kids who start to watch the show havent watched any previous season, they wont give a shit about things they dont know about.
Kids who outgrow the show will never get any sort of closure to stop watching, you're forced to abandon it when you realize it's going nowhere.
Lots of other franchises know this and exploit it. There's no reason for pokemon not to do so.
Switching protagonist in say Digimon probably wasn't for the best. The series has been dropping lower and lower in popularity with Xros Wars and Hunters being the worst of the entire anime series.
>>25691153
They've had the same writers for a long time bar Shudo.
>>25691172
>>The storytelling changes when the director changes. Some directors write Ash as a chucklefuck. Some write him as a competent action bastard.
>I just literally said it happened one time
You said the first thing in present tense, not in past tense. You also said "some" implying there's more than one that changes the direction of the character.
>>25691179
>This show who changed MCs dropped in popularity
>therefore it's inherently bad to change MCs
I might as well say the Simpsons dropped in popularity while keeping the same MCs and beat you on your own logic.
It's called Mickey Mouse Syndrome, it's what happens when a franchise becomes extremely popular. All their flaws get scrubbed away to make them squeaky clean family friendly and most importantly, marketable.
A real shame. I liked Ash WAY more when he was a cocky screw up that was capable of being rude. He's SOOOOOOO Boring and stiff now.
>>25690681
Ash lost more than any anime protagonist ever.
>>25691144
>Nigga, at this point Jack has been more relevant in Arc-V than Yugi in GX and 5D's combined.
For almost the entire arc, Jack was sitting on his chair being mad at everything. He didn't start doing anything until like four episodes ago.
>It's automatically better, even if badly executed.
That doesn't even make any sense.
>On special episodes, never to replace Ash. Yo may be actually retarded.
That wasn't the point. The point was that they actually introduced new main characters, for their own series, and yet Ash still ended up being brought up. Alain had four Mega specials and Ash was brought up in the very first one after like 5 minutes. Now Alain is in Ash's series.
>There's literally no reason to think that way
Except for you know, the fact that they are literally marketing mad machines. They aren't going to get rid of Ash and Pikachu when from a business perspective it'd lose them more money than the money they would make from introducing some new MC from the games that you guys constantly continue to think would automatically make the show better. Which is why Konami keeps bringing up Yugi and other past characters from Yu-Gi-Oh. They print money.
>Because the amount of merch made of Ash is stunning right?
Yes?
>Because there's only one Pikachu ever right?
There's only one Ash's Pikachu. You know, the only one people care about. The one that got it's own game.
>>25691193
That wasn't me.
Either way they wrote Ash as a chucklefuck in the beginning of OS but then stopped doing that during OS. Everyone else had been consistent except the same guy that did DP and BW. That's literally the only inconsistency.
>>25691007
Ash himself is not the most valuable character in the anime, it's Ash's Pikachu the one that's keeping him aboard. I think they don't want to risk people getting out by changing the relationship between them.
>>25690746
>grows or shows a bit of development
Except he doesn't.
>without having the same joke over and over
Are you fucking serious? He shows of the POWER OF SCIENCE and CITRONIC GEAR ON every fucking episode.
>Same applies for Serena
What applies to her? Comic relief? She may as well be because her character is so bad it's hilarious.
>the first to actually shod interest in Ash
And that is one of the only two things that define her character.
>and the Keepu shit is only because you watch retarded dub. She doesn't do annoying crap in the original one.
Again, are you retarded? I even called it by what she says in the original Japanese version. And she does it in the original Japanese version. Constantly.
Animefags are so incredibly braindead it almost feels like I'm being baited.
>>25691216
>Cherry picking detected
He is trying to use XY battles only as an example.
What happened to Pikachu's personality?
>>25691179
Which is why they brought back the original Digimon protagonists in Tri.
This is what some of you retards don't get. Bringing in new protagonists does nothing but be a risk of whether or not the company is going to make money. Nostalgia is the ultimate marketing device in this kind of industry. Digimon sagas got so bad in popularity that they brought back the original Digimon crew with Digimon Tri which has brought back a boost in popularity for the series.
>>25691285
Dead, just like all personality in anything anime since Sinnoh.
>>25691285
shot down once Togepi came around
>>25691285
I've been thinking the same thing myself. Watching the new episodes, Pikachu is just there.
>>25691285
He is a full fledged male now. He copies Ash's facial expressions. He talks shit to Serena's Eevee
>>25691216
good, at least he is not a gary stu
>>25691285
Not sure if joking but Pikachu too has a different character nowadays than what was in the OS.
>>25691244
>For almost the entire arc, Jack was sitting on his chair being mad at everything. He didn't start doing anything until like four episodes ago.
>He thinks being relevant is the same as being active
>AFTER implying Yugi was anything close to relevant in GX in 5ds
>That doesn't even make any sense.
It's pretty obvious if you had basic reading comprehension.
>The point was that they actually introduced new main characters, for their own series
For a series of specials, they never attempted to replace Ash with those. I can't believe you dont get this.
>Except for you know, the fact that they are literally marketing mad machines.
Ash is barely marketed. And Pikachu is marketed as it being cute, not because of the show's character. The only thing that one brought in was the Pikachu cry.
> it'd lose them more money than the money they would make from introducing some new MC
Prove how.
>that you guys constantly continue to think would automatically make the show better.
I already explained why. Explain why not.
>Which is why Konami keeps bringing up Yugi and other past characters from Yu-Gi-Oh. They print money.
Yugi returned for the sequel, the 10th anniversary and the 20th anniversary. Sort of similar to Red, and I dont see you saying that Red prints money.
Jaden returned for the 10th anniversary, and they didnt even return for the show.
Yusei hasnt returned, neither Yuma.
And Yuya is the current one.
The biggest return so far were the Arc-V ones and they arent even a constant thing, we dont know if the next season will feature a return.
>Yes?
Not really, no. You're very delusional
>There's only one Ash's Pikachu. You know, the only one people care about. The one that got it's own game.
Well, Smash, Pokken, the plushies, the thanksgiving day parade baloon, detective pikachu,cosplay Pikachu and tons of other exposures Pikachu had arent Ash's Pikachu. But sure, they can only market Ash's Pikachu because a delusional retard said so.
>>25690681
>>25690767
>>25690793
Ash:
>Pokémon first movie: turned to stone and brought back through tears with literally no other explanation given ever as to how
>entire Pokémon 2000 movie: "Ash is the chosen one, the world will turn to Ash!"
>Lucario and the Mystery of Mew: let's establish a human at extremely high levels of spiritual awareness in the past. Pretty cool right? Well Ash is just like him and we're not going to explain that just like we won't explain why he can't die
please don't be in denial k thanks
>>25691179
That situation isn't really comparable here.
Digimon switched protags every season, sure, but they did way more than that. They disregarded the old canon, changed the backstory of what a digimon is and their relationship to humans, and always introduced some dumb gimmick to the season.
>Tamers = Last two seasons were just an anime, digimon are game characters come to life and apparantly some kids fan character. Also now we can modify them with cards.
>Frontier = The digital world is just a weird wonderland the kids wander into by mistake. Also the kids turn into digimon instead of having a partner themselves. Also none of the old canons are a thing anymore.
>Savers = Digimon are invaders from another world, and the Men in Black have to keep them from interacting with humans, with their own partner digimon. Also one guy punches digimon for his partner to evolve.
>Fusion: Going to be honest I didn't finish this, but I do know the kid is building an ARMY of Digimon, and fusion from season 2 is brought to a ridiculous level, and apparantly all the past protagonists really did exist and they all meet up or something.
Pokemon would be okay switching protagonists as long as old canon didn't get retconned out of existence every season, and they didn't rewrite the fundamentals of what a pokemon is, and how humans and pokemon live together.
>T-they're not Mary Sues I swear!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits
Count the number of traits that match Ash and Serena.
>>25691294
For the billionth time, it's the brand that makes money, not Ash. If digimon characters still had adventures and didnt progress to this day, people would feel the same about them.
>>25691351
THIS
H
I
S
I completely forgot to bring up the movies, Christ are they awful.
>>25691302
>OS Pikachu:
Pikatsuu!
>Neo Pikachu:
PIGAAA PIGGA PEE PIGAATSAA!
>>25691351
He saved Arceus so he's like god's favorite or something
>>25690881
>Ash was supposed to grow from cocky to humble, ignorant to enlightened, rookie to master
And that's more or less what happened. Compare his Gym battles in Kanto to the ones in XY and you'll see a huge difference
>>25691401
Except he lost to the first Gym which throws that out the fucking window.
![[PM]Pocket_Monsters_XY_005_Hakudan_Gym_Match!_The_Elegant_Vivillon's_Dance_Battling!![H264_720P][C3A66E8B].mkv_snapshot_06.53_[2016.02.27_18.25.25].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FBJftmO.jpg "[PM]Pocket_Monsters_XY_005_Hakudan_Gym_Match!_The_Elegant_Vivillon's_Dance_Battling!![H264_720P][C3A66E8B].mkv_snapshot_06.53_[2016.02.27_18.25.25].jpg")
>>25691410
And he was running his mouth during that battle too
>>25691442
I didn't even remember that
Wow that just makes it worse
>>25691351
That's still not a Mary Sue, it's just poor writing.
>>25691410
>>25691449
>cherrypicking
How many gym battles has he lost since?
>>25691410
The first fucking gym literally starts off at Sinnoh levels and even Ash got rused. Compare that to Unova and you know they brought the strongest stuff.
No, the ice field wasn't something he dealt with because each ice gym had places the Pokemon could stand on and and it wasn't the same situation as with Regice because Regice was stationary compared to a Surskit who's skating on ice like if it were skating on water.
>>25691342
>He thinks being relevant is the same as being active
You aren't relevant if you aren't doing anything. Not to mention it's as if after Yuya beat DC227, he completely forgot about Jack until Jack and Sergei's duel.
>It's pretty obvious if you had basic reading comprehension.
Whatever you say anon.
>For a series of specials, they never attempted to replace Ash with those. I can't believe you dont get this.
And again, you're missing the point. EVEN IN THEIR OWN SIDE STORIES ASH WAS STILL BROUGHT UP EVEN THOUGH HE HAD LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR STORIES. I put it in all caps so maybe you could understand it better.
>Ash is barely marketed.
Where did you get that from?
>Prove how.
I have already used Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh as an example, learn to read.
>I already explained why
Where?
>The biggest return so far were the Arc-V ones and they arent even a constant thing, we dont know if the next season will feature a return.
Yes we do, Kite, Alexis, and Aster Phoenix are all confirmed to be returning in Arc-V.
>Not really, no.
Explain how.
>Well, Smash, Pokken, the plushies, the thanksgiving day parade baloon, detective pikachu,cosplay Pikachu and tons of other exposures Pikachu had arent Ash's Pikachu.
All that extending from the anime's Pikachu. Pikachu became so popular because of the anime's exposure. Why does Smash, Pokken, the Pikachu in Detective Pikachu that don't speak human language, the games, and other Pikachu in media ALL share the same voice actor from the anime?
>But sure, they can only market Ash's Pikachu
I never said that. I said there is only one Ash's Pikachu. The one that people care about. The one that if you ask a random person on the street, they'll talk about.
>>25691360
Which is why the Adventures protagonists were brought back for a whole nother series, right?
>>25691462
Being a master would mean he would have been able to adapt to that and exploit it.
He did it with Olympia's gym, why not Alexa's?
>>25691351
It actually is explained in the original Japanese version that Pokemon tears contain healing powers. It was cut from the US release for some reason, along with the scenes with Amber.
>>25691122
That was the end of the series, nearly 200 episodes after he appeared in the first episode.
>>25691558
>Being a master would mean he would have been able to adapt to that and exploit it.
He did. Which is how he ended up winning.
Your logic is flawed, anyway. If Se Jun Park lost a tournament, he'd still be better than your bitch ass could ever hope to dream to be.
>>25691502
>You aren't relevant if you aren't doing anything.
You know I'd normally say that you need to be more media savvy(usual issue with pokemon fans and speciall ashfags) but even you pointed out a case of a character being suposedly relevant while not being active so you're not only wrong here but inconsistent.
>Whatever you say anon.
Yeah, it's better to be condescending than actually admiting a flaw isnt it?
>EVEN IN THEIR OWN SIDE STORIES ASH WAS STILL BROUGHT UP EVEN THOUGH HE HAD LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR STORIES
Oh, I got that one wrong. Still, I'm pretty sure there's possible to write a pokemon story, even in the anime universe that doesnt feature Ash. Wasnt that sorto f the premise of chronicles?(aside from the fact they're characters that Ash met)
>Where did you get that from?
Actual knowledge of the franchise's marketing strategies and menchardising products.
>I have already used Digimon and Yu-Gi-Oh as an example, learn to read.
Those are cases of a franchise that changed MCs. Those are also very popular franchises. You've sort of proven me right.
Unless you're retarded enough to include the west, where pokemon also had a drop in popularity. And even now that is resurfacing, even 9fags dont give much of a shit about Ash, less so after OS.
>Where?
>>25691144
>Yes we do, Kite, Alexis, and Aster Phoenix are all confirmed to be returning in Arc-V.
>in Arc-V
I'm pretty sure Arc-V isnt the season after Arc-V
>Explain how.
>https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=pokemon+ash+merchandise&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjWzvWi09jLAhVJG5AKHSQ8BmcQ_AUIBygB&biw=1366&bih=608
>generic magazines
>some moncolle figures
>the 20 anniversary statue
>https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=pikachu+merchandise&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV5tyw09jLAhUKGJAKHeXfA6IQ_AUIBygB&biw=1366&bih=608
You see lots of different Pikachu merch(mainly plushies) here
cont.
>>25691558
You mean Viola's.
And the reason is obvious: other than Pikachu he was using Pokemon that he had not really trained with yet.
>>25691502
>All that extending from the anime's Pikachu.
Only the voice is taken. Everything else about Ash's Pikachu, like his personality isnt important.
>I never said that.
> I said there is only one Ash's Pikachu.
That would only make sense if your point wasnt that changing Ash's Pikachu would hurt the franchise'sales.
>The one that people care about. The one that if you ask a random person on the street, they'll talk about.
If I ask a random person on the street they'll barely say anything more about Pikachu aside from the fact it says Pikachu and its electric. Of course, Ash's is the most popular since it's the MC of the show people know pokemon for, but it's nothing inherent to Ash's Pikachu that makes it popular.
>>25691511
They were brought back to cash in with nostalgia. It's a different thing. You can't cash in with nostalgia with Ash since he's still around.
What kind of character would you replace Ash with if you had the choice, and what would his partner Pokemon be? Who would be his traveling companions?
>>25690793
>>25691216
Maybe but he has a point.
>>25691978
Donald Trump and Braviary. Companions would be sleepy doctor who would act as the Brock of the group and Chris Christie who would be the loud kiddo.
In all seriousness, I have no idea. I'd just like a spinoff, the main anime doesn't have to change. I really enjoyed Origin until it shoehorned the mega evolution into the final part. As for partner pokémon, not a starter and something with a nice design and without a shitty personality or any tropes associated with it (No Munchlax, it'd just become a running gag of "Oh Munchlax, you've eaten our entire food supply AGAIN) and nothing with any useleless middle stages, though a butterfree would be cool. A few ideas would be Sandslash and Vulpix(maybe not though since it'd probably be better in the long run if the partner doesn't become a huge pokémon like ninetails is). As for travelling companions, something to break the mold of main character, wise character and character who's either a rookie(Dawn, May, Serena) or who can be the source of drama (Misty, Iris). Perhaps a group of kids setting off on their pokémon journey and learning the ropes as they go. It'd be nice to see how other people go about their journeys, so far all we've really seen is Ash with his "NEVER GIVE UP, KEEP TRYING!" and whoever his rival may be at the time who expects perfection from their pokémon and/or is a real dick like Paul.
autism
>>25690523
>nicer
I didn't think about it till just now, but he was a mean little shit originally.
Rude to people he just met, mocking people for their interests, talking down other trainers abilities then acting like a sore loser.
I get it, he's ten. It was fine for him to be a little bratty, but they went way overboard the first few seasons.
>>25689939
I still don't see why people idolize xy ash, yeah he doesn't suck like on bw, but he still feels so lifeless
>>25692352
There's a reason Misty slapped his shit in a couple of episodes. ( though it was usually cut out for the dub )
>>25692378
Yeah, she slapped him on the first episode, back then when writers didn't give a crap about other countries cultures
>>25692377
when you're in the negatives, even zero is an improvement.
D&P was when I felt he was at his best. Still not amazing but I could actually care and sympathize with him some.
>there are people who thinks XY is better than DP
>>25691569
Nope, there is no such explanation in the Japanese version. The dub actually added that silly Pokémon tears story at the beginning to try and foreshadow what was a massive asspull. The backstory with Ai/Amber has nothing to do with the events at the end.
>>25692517
Games? Than yes.
Anime? XYZ is only doing what DP did but better.Unless Tobitchas makes a wondrous return with his 7 Pkmn team of Shiny Acreses. Than it's the same exact shit. It'll happen, mark my words.
>>25692378
>>25692408
That wasn't cut out although that was him more along the lines of Pikachu and shit.
