Would the games be too hard if every gym leader or champion had 6 Pokemon?
Ive always thought it was odd that they only get like two to three in recent times; hell, even in the BW2 World tournament I thought that at least the Champions would get 6. But they got three.
Why don't they do it? I understand the early game would be kind of hard, but i'm sure there could be some tweaking done.
Gym leaders exist to test trainers, they only challenge you with suitable teams to your level. Every gym leader has a bunch of different teams, for different strength challengers and they later them depending on how many badges you have.
Everyone knows that.
>>25625554
Makes sense, I forgot that was actually what they did. I guess I'm mostly talking E4 and challenges like the BW2 WT then.
They should have the same amount as you or force you to use the same amount as the gym leader.
>>25625540
>Would the games be hard-
The answer is no. The answer is always no. Due to the very fundamental nature of Pokemon, the single player experience can never, ever be hard.
>>25625678
B-but muh sense of self acomplishmen!
>>25625678
The Cups in Stadium were pretty rough, especially with rentals desu.
Gym Leaders should have better progression in teams
Gyms 1 and 2: 2 Pokemon each
Gyms 3-5: 3-4
Gyms 6-8: 4-5, maybe 6
Elite 4 Members tend to be cucked out of the best types in the generation. What stands out to me are Lorelei, Bruno, Agatha, Lance, Karen, Phoebe, Glacia and Flint. Recently with the 4 Pokemon per Elite 4 Memberwhich is a bad idea honestlythey manage to have varied teams at the very least. When your team has repeats there's honestly a problem
Champions never tend to disappoint except Diantha
>>25625540
Every Champion does have 6 Pokémon. Even in the PWT.
I wouldn't expect an early game Gym to have six Pokémon, but there's really no excuse for shit like Kalos where the final leader only has three.
Every Gym Leader and Champion in the PWT has a full team of six, but the PWT follows official VGC rules and you cannot use all 6 Pokemon in a battle exscept for in Triple battles iirc
>>25625540
Yes. It would make a great difficulty mode option in the game. Play the VW/BB romhacks and you'll find that a lot of the gyms are legitimately hard.
>>25625554
Stupid headcanon
>>25625540
There's no excuse, and they should all have full teams. Theyre fully fledged strong trainers, there's no reason to gimp them other than literally appealing to seven year olds who want to play candy crush or clash of clans, which is a meme that masuda and co thinks is real
>>25627197
>Stupid headcanon
>Repeatedly implied or made clear in both the games and other media
>Directly stated by Cheren in BW2
Obviously Brock should be challenging new trainers fresh from Pallet Town with a Mega Aerodactyl
More Pokemon makes it tedious, not harder. I agree that Badges 6+ should probably get more than just three Pokemon, but full teams of 6 does not sound appealing.
>>25627269
I would ask where Cheren says this in BW2, but I'm probably not going to get a direct answer, so fuck it.
The point is that gym leaders are supposed to be strong trainers, meaning they should have full, strong teams. I don't really care if there's some canon that says they swap out different teams, just that they are considerably stronger than the fucking gym trainers.
>>25625540
Gym 1-3 pokemon
Gym 2-4 pokemon
Gym 3-5 pokemon
Gym 4-8-6 pokemon.
>>25625540
>Would the games be too hard if every gym leader or champion had 6 Pokemon?
Having played Blaze Black / Volt White: no. Most of the challenge came from the fact that the hack gave Pokemon far more powerful moves across the board, so some gym leaders were stacked with powerhouses. Even then it wasn't really that bad. In an actual official game, giving each gym leader six Pokemon wouldn't be nearly so difficult.
>>25632352
Cheren implies it towards the beginning when he talks about using his "usual partners" in a gym battle.
>>25625691
This had a lot to do with the AI straight up cheating and picking Pokemon that had a type advantage over the ones you chose.
>>25625554
That is the dumb bullshit they made up for origins. If that were true then when you challenge gym leaders in different orders their teams should be different, but they aren't
>>25632401
I think he's actually referring to his team from black and white. Since as a sequel the events of your previous gen 5 game are canon to your second gen 5 game.
>>25632427
It'd be cool if they built a game around the concept of challenging gyms in any order, but it'd probably be so difficult to balance out the levels of wild Pokemon / trainers as to not be worth the effort.
>>25632441
That's what I assumed, but it does mean that gym leaders have to use less powerful Pokemon than they might otherwise have available to them.
>>25627197
>Stupid headcanon
>Stated by in game characters
>Demonstrated in the first episode of Pokemon origins
>>25632479
But then why are the trainers in the gym at the level they are at? Does the gym leader tell them ahead of time that you are coming and they all also have a bunch of different teams?
>>25632479
I can believe they have other Pokémon besides the one they fight you with, the PWT pretty much makes this apparent. But the idea that they have full teams of pokemon at every possible level to match whatever trainer comes in is a little too headcanony.
Don't understand why people want Pokemon to be hard. Cynthia was a nightmare.
>>25632545
They wouldn't be every level probably. I can imagine they have general ranges for trainers.
>>25632479
Yeah, but they don't have 8 different teams they swap around. It just meant cheren missed using his old team to crush trainers.
>>25632487
Dunno which characters have directly said it ingame, if cherens ruled out now, and Pokemon origins is not fucking canon.
Due to the nature of gyms being monotype it would matter so very little.
Dragon Gym? Play Rough six times.
Fairy Gym? Iron Head six times
Fire Gym? Even surf six times.
The only times multiple pokemon matter is champion or rival battles where they get random types and shit.
Shit the opposite would be a better solution. One pokemon that is clearly over leveled and requires having at least more than one fucking pokemon on your team at all times.
>>25632545
I think they would swap out teams based on how many badges their challenger has (which the guy at the beginning of every gym probably checks). Also they probably don't have teams for every iteration. Maybe Viola, for example, only has teams for trainers with 1 or 4 badges. Grant and Korrina might have teams for people with 2, 5 and 6 (Grant) or 3, 5 and 7 (Korrina). Gym leaders in remote locations might only have teams available for late-game trainers because unless the trainer had Pokemon strong enough to get there in the first place, they wouldn't be able to challenge the gym leader anyway (Snowpoint city, and Sootopolis, for example). Maybe 8th gym leaders only have teams for trainers who have all 8 badges, so they can afford to do other things and not worry about their position too much (Giovanni, Volkner), while gym leaders in central towns and major cities would have 1st gym teams for all the budding trainers that would inevitably want to challenge them (Wattson, Clemont, Fantina, and so on).
At least, that's my explanation for it. I would assume gym leaders also have Pokemon that's not of their type that they simply don't use, like Brycen, who only became trained in the cold after he retired from being a movie star. As Brycenman, he used exclusively dark types.
>>25625678
They wouldn't be hard, but they would be less insultingly easy.
>>25632641
Wouldn't that be solved by having Pokemon that cover each other's weaknesses so they wouldn't be able to only target one weakness? Elesa's team of Emolgas and motor drive Zebstraika was a good example, or Crasher Wake's Gyarados and Quagsire
>>25632525
>>25632545
Or, you know, they simply base things on how many badges the trainer has. Not a thing for 'every possible level'.
>But then why are the trainers in the gym at the level they are at?
Oh I don't know. Maybe a little thing called Gameplay and Story segregation? I think you might have heard about it before? The levels themselves are purely for the game mechanics, and in a story setting, wouldn't matter at all.
I bet you think that all of those young pre-school trainers that have level 60+ unevolved Pokemon in the later half of the game are weird for not having them evolved?
Or I bet you are thinking this: Gee wiz, it's so weird that all of these wild Pokemon around this town are so much more higher leveled and powerful. How could any other trainer possibly start out in a place like this? They'd get destroyed.
Thing is? That's an aspect of the game mechanics done in order to give you a challenge for your level. In story, those pre-schoolers most likely DON'T have Pokemon high enough to have already possibly leveled, the wild Pokemon around some of those towns likely AREN'T balls to the wall highly capable, and so forth.
It all boils down to game mechanics, and realizing when to actually draw the line and realize the simple notion that levels themselves are merely a thing of the game.
Long story short: It makes perfect sense that Gym Leaders would have various Pokemon to test people based upon their experience via how many badges they have. They are meant to test trainers and their growth, and having one set in a story setting seems counterproductive to their job.
>>25632659
>Maybe 8th gym leaders only have teams for people with all 8th badges
I meant 7, whoops
>>25632689
Dual types that result in neutral hits or better are usually the exception and even then it doesn't change the fact you literally need a single pokemon for any given gym.
You could take something like, I don't know uh, Mawile and completely destroy every gym/E4/Steven in ORAS and the absolute hardest thing you would do would be maybe changing a TM once. The odd instances where you get a pokemon from a gym that isn't suffering 2X/4X hits from the same thing as everyone else doesn't really matter because A) unless it's resistant STAB still kills and and B) you're always over leveled for every area in the game.
NPCs don't have enough good pokemon with good stats and good moves and good strategy to make up for their shitty monotype themed rosters in the first place. You'd basically have to dig up every single pokemon of that type to see if you can find any dual types that would give decent resistances and even then all you end up with is a scenario in which you go "oh no I have to ice beam instead of thunder bolt".
Everything about the standard pokemon main game is set up to give the player every advantage and even going so far as to give trainers a variety of pokemon of complimentary types wouldn't change that.
Which hey there's nothing wrong with that it's a fun little adventure where you go throw the FIRE GYM and then fight the FIRE GUY with a fun little themed roster.
>>25632806
Don't you think that overlevelling one mon is obviously going to make the entire thing easier anyway? Yes, you could very easily just make your main, OU-tier Pokemon 10+ levels higher than the E4 but then complaining about how easy it is seems less a fault on their teams and more on the fact that you're just over-levelled. Granted, XY made it really easy to be over-levelled so I can understand the complaints for it, especially when most gym leader teams barely did anything to offset the easiness of it.
>>25632697
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Yeah, gym trainers and higher levelled Pokemon might be mechanics. So too is the level of the gym leader team, then.
>>25632806
You'd be surprised how a varied, versatile team can be difficult to deal with, despite 'giving the player every advantage' - Cynthia's an obvious example of this.
>>25632860
It doesn't have to be OU or even going out of your way to level the thing.
You can take anything and stomp your way to the end and by the simple act of keeping with one poke just for the sake of it you'll always end up over leveled which usually negates even the worst stat spread.
Even if you go into a gym under leveled you'll come out at the leader usually equal to if not better at which point you gib all their pokemon with a single move.
Oh sure it's gotten worse over time with how quick you level up in relation to the average NPC level but even then you've never really needed a full roster yourself for a long time now.
>>25632867
This only happens because champions (and fights like this) ARE allowed to be varied in the first place. You couple all the advantage the player has in a fight WITH knowing that your opponent is forced into a typing theme and them having 1 to 6 pokemon doesn't even matter at that point.
>>25632934
Have you ever tried steamrolling every gym with one Pokemon in gen 5? It's actually very difficult, or at the very least, really impractical. Not just because of the level scaling, but because most of the best Pokemon available don't evolve until very late into the game and are terrible otherwise, and they also don't have a lot of variety in moves to choose from.
