is there a single mechanic in Pokémon that needs to be removed more than HMs? Seriously, I really hope they get replaced with key items, the eon flute was a step in the right direction.
>This is a katana, you know can cut small trees!
>>25619770
>know
now, i mean
>We still don't have hedge trimmers
Do scissors just not exist in the Pokemon world because Cut? This really makes no sense
I don't see any way on how to replace Surf, but Fly would be amazing if you could use any Pokemon and not just Mega Free Legendary and worked like soaring, except giving you the option between instantaneous fly or soaring
But Game Freak doesn't know what fun is
>>25619756
Eh they haven't been an issue since gen 1 since you can delete them now and you can breed your mons.
Oh and the advent of HM slaves.
>>25619756
>is there a single mechanic in Pokémon that needs to be removed more than HMs?
IVs
at least I don't really have to deal with HMs anymore once I'm done the story, but IVs are always there fuck that shit
>>25619756
At the very least, soaring should stay as the new replacement for Fly, and there should be a surf equivalent too. They don't always have to be a legendary, maybe just some bro pokemon, like Ash's charizard and how it just came and helped out even though it technically wasn't in Ash's party.
Also, things like cut, strength, and rock smash should be one and done situations. They sort of already fixed Strength as of Gen V. But cut is still a problem since they always grow back.
Either way, all the HMs should just become TMs. There is literally no point in keeping as being unable to be deleted without a move deleter in the age of infinite usage TMs.
>hedge trimmers
>surf board
>strength gloves
>scuba gear
>eon flute
>super surfboard (for water fall)
This is all they have to do. Or they could at least make HMs not required or make HMs useful to use in battle
>>25619786
>i dont see any way on how to replace surf
Maybe a boat company? Paid by the league itself so trainers can transport themselves around. And depending on the size of the route, you can use a regular boat, a sailboat or ayacht in which you can battle rich boy/girl.
I don't like the idea of removing the concept of actually using your Pokemon to travel around or to circumvent environmental obstacles, but there has to be a better way to do it than through HMs. Maybe it would be better to just have Pokemon that could learn each HM automatically be capable of performing its function once you have enough badges. So long as you have at least one Pokemon capable of learning Cut, you would be able to cut down bushes without actually having to waste a moveslot on it or carry around some poor unloved HM Slave.
HMs aren't the problem.
The number of HMs and the fact that so many do similar things are the problems.
Cut
Strength
Fly
Surf
Those should be the only HMs. Every other one can be reclassified as a TM. I wouldn't want them removed outright. There are water pokemon I prefer to teach Waterfall over Surf, etc.
When you find the corresponding TM and depending on how many badges you gave surf can now get you up waterfalls, dive to the ocean floor, and stop whirlpools.
Fly can be used to soar after a certain number of badges are obtained.
Strength can move rocks and later break them.
Cut remains unchanged.
Now that TMs have infinite use there is no need to have the others be HMs. If I need Flash, I will teach it to something and then replace the move with a different TM when I leave the cave.
>>25619756
Except it wasn't
It was cool but it's main purpose was to encounter the Legendary Pokemon and just using Fly is way faster than soaring all the way to the place you wanna go
If anything they should make it so you can fly without the Pokemon needing to learn Fly, and surf without a Pokemon needing to learn Surf and stuff like that
It's not like a literal bird Pokemon needs to learn Fly to know how o flap it's wings or a literal shark needs to learn surf to know how to swim
Or they could on the very least buff or switch the moves, Surf and Waterfall are okay, but they could really swap Cut for Slash and Rock Smash for Brick Break
Have a random Clair just for the sake of it
>>25619917
>but they could really swap Cut for Slash and Rock Smash for Brick Break
THIS.
They need to just classify certain moves as "cutting moves" or "rock-smashing moves".
>>25619786
A small inflatable raft.
>>25619917
>HM moves can now be learned over without move deleter
problem solved
>>25619853
>>25620000
You guys say raft or boat, but when I think of boats in Pokemon I think of Mr. Briney's and how realistic that one was in comparison to some other aspects of the series
That's why it feels more believable to have a Pokemon be your boat than a surf board or a small boat. The best way to make it work really is just to have Water types naturally have the ability to Surf or whatever new Water HMs they feel like introducing
>>25620039
didnt mean to reply oop
>>25620039
No, you idiot. There's a reason you can't delete an HM. The same reason a KO'd mon can still use an HM.
There are innumerable instances where the player could stand themselves if it weren't for HMs being irremovable.
The only way to replace them is with key items or in-game event flagging them to move. Or scrapping the mechanic. It's been dead since Gen 5, after all.
>>25620069
>sweet scent and dig can be used outside of battle by a fainted mon
autism begone
>>25620124
Issue: If you delete Surf off your Pokemon while Surfing, you end up with the possibility of trapping yourself if you land on an island with no way off
The only exception to such a rule is possibly modern Strength and Fly because Fly is optional in every Gen
>>25620069
>Before obtaining old rod
>Player surfs to tiny remote island somewhere.
>Releases surf-knowing pokemon.
>Player can now absolutely never escape.
>>25620069
I'm pretty sure HMs were unforgettable because of limited storage in the Gen I bag and have the option to put it in the PC (not sure if you could throw then away)
Now that HMs stay with you at all times, there should be no reason to have them unforgettable
>>25620143
>Oops! Can't replace that move while surfing!
try again
>is there a single mechanic in Pokémon that needs to be removed more than HMs?
Battles
Why cant you just have a separate move slot for hms...
really its not that hard.
>>25620069
>surf to island
>delete surf
oh no. I am standed on this island. What ever will I do. Oh. I know.
>boot up TM103 Surf
>teaches surf to pokemon
Thank you infinite use TMs!
>>25619859
I really like your idea anon.
Okay, how's about this:
As it stands the current load out of HMs are, selectively, Great (Surf, Waterfall) okay (Strength, Fly, Rock Climb), and awful (rock smash, cut). If we can raise the Awful up to "okay", it might be worthwhile.
>Give Cut a crit rate boost, or make it always crit.
>Give Rock Smash a higher defense reduction chance, or just have it always lower def.
>>25620172
>Trade a Pokemon that knows Surf
>Go onto an island where there's no way off but Surf or Fly
>Forget Surf
>Can't get off
That said, I still think these abilities should be innate to Pokemon and not require HMs in the first place
>>25620069
have you ever made a game?
>>25620169
That literally makes no sense. By your logic, they would be forgettable.
>>25620124
Right, it's always autism.
Field moves were programmed to work all in the same fashion. The initial purpose of allowing field moves while KO'd is to allow the player to progress without getting stuck. It's a really basic of game design.
>>25620172
Release that pokemon after you land on any of the 2x2 islands with no grass on them.
>>25619770
>katana is exclusive to Moon version
>>25620197
Sure, that would work, but I'm not talking about woulds, I'm explaining why it was the way it was initially. In case you haven't noticed, Game Freak is kind of shit, and seems to disregard true progress made in favour of clinging to legacy bullshit, besides aesthetic flourish like cries and other sfx.
Mind you, you can strand yourself with the PC's release function, so it's not entirely foolproof, but if you're that dumb you deserve to be stuck.
>>25620217
Something like that.
>>25620143
Just teach it Surf again. It's that simple.
Using some sort of device to push boulders, cutting bushes and breaking rocks.
Getting an inflatable lapras or something for surf and waterfall.
Scuba Gear for dive.
Changing all HMs into TMs.
>>25619976
>They need to just classify certain moves as "cutting moves" or "rock-smashing moves".
This, a million times this. I don't see anything keeping them from doing this.
>>25620277
Oh and flying/soaring with a flying type having a specific minimum height and weght
>>25620233
>sun version equivalent is to give up when a tree is on the way and go home and rant online about how people who cut down trees are edgelords and how glad you are to not be one of them
Gen 7 is going to be fun.
>>25620209
>Wonder Trade
>>25620329
>Coming up with this much of an autistic rant over an edge joke
>>25620209
What if you just taught your Pokemon Surf again
>>25620368
>one line
>this much
>>25620356
>Relying on online for a better game
No wonder Pokemon games are getting worse. The design's gonna take a huge nosedive in later gens
>>25620371
The hypothetical scenario was prior to getting the Surf HM but having the ability to Surf akin to something like Gen I. Said scenario wouldn't work if the game gives you Surf after getting the badge to like in Gen III or if Badges were unrelated to HMs like Gen V
Some smart design choices though would invalidate my hypothetical scenario, which is a good thing
>>25619853
Here to back this up with a reminder that in the Pokemon Advanced opening implies that Ash and crew built a raft and sailed on it at one point.
>>25620177
This
Battles are making our kids too aggressive
>>25620382
It's much more than the original post. I still can't believe people are on ends about two games we know nothing aboutother than they're Gen VII
>>25620408
Pokemon should just stand face to face while the trainers list their IVs and movesets and then a judge decides who would have won based on statistics.
>>25620410
It's still just a line, bro. Did you get tired reading it? Plus, why take the competition so seriously? It's funny. I doubt anyone actually believes that moonfags are edgelords or that sunfags are insecure children.
>>25620124
how do these bonus TMs relate to a conversation about necessary HMs?
I like how in BW and XY, Strength had a permanent effect. Maybe they could do the same with Cut and Rock Smash. Once you destroy a tree or rock, they're gone forever.
>>25620430
Because on an image board about a children's video game franchise means that any arguments or joking around are hilariously easy to make fun of
We could keep Surf and fly, and just turn everything else in to TM. Bury cut, rock climb, strength and whirlpool forever.
>>25620233
I kekked.
>>25620203
seems like a logical way to go about it.
>each pokemon is assigned a small list of hm moves they can naturally use, viewable through the menu
>each hm is assigned a level threshold
>once the pokemon reaches that level, it learned the move like a normal move, and that hm is usable outside of battle regardless of whether the move is learned
>>25620590
How if
>the pokemon is allowed to use that move after winning a certain badge/if trainer has a certain badge
That way you can cut or surf like always until you advance enough in the game.
Seeing how there is a heavy emphasis on trucks, I can see this replacing the fast travel system. That or planes. HMs were a fucking mistake
>>25619786
>>25619853
>Pic related
>Captcha: Select all images with Palm Trees
>>25620395
>Relying on online
well that's pretty much a given since you're relying on online to get stuck, imbecil
>>25619756
How to fix HMs:
>they can still be taught to Pokemon
>in order to use their effect, you only need to posses the HM and a pokemon that could use it
example: Blastoise knows 4 non-Surf moves, but having a Blastoise and HM03 in your inventory brings up the Surf prompt when you interact with water
Boom.
Cut the check.
>>25619853
just have another eon flute that summons a water pokemon or allows any water type to carry you without knowing surf
Honestly, I'm a little conflicted about this.
>On one hand, I wouldn't have to worry HM's anymore if we just had key items
>On the other hand, traversing with Pokemon, looking at your little buddy like "okay cut down that tree!" is really fun for immersion and stuff
>key items
Just have it so certain pokemon can do certain things for you (assuming you've cleared certain prerequisites, like a gym battle).
If a pokemon that flies on it's own is large enough, it can fly for you. If a pokemon that's large enough can swim, you can ride it in the ocean. If it has claws it can cut things for you. As is, the mechanic is smart in how it gives an element of progression and optional exploration to the game, while correlating pokemon and collecting. But there's no reason it should butt into battle move sets.
We don't even need replacements for HMs
How many fucking games have fast travel without justifying it with jumping on a giant black bird? You can easily make obstacles that are plot based instead of a giant boulder blocking the road.
>>25620666
Best idea.
Devil's trips confirm.
They could let pokemon have a 5th move slot that can't be used in battle, only for HMs and other overworld moves.
Or they could let you carry an extra pokemon or two that can't be used in battle unless you swap them to the first 6 slots beforehand. That'd be nice for a lot of things, not only for HM slaves.
Or also this >>25623653
>>25619831
>implying Surf and Fly aren't useful moves.
>>25620666
I've had a similar idea for years. Give pokemon a fifth move slot for HMs that can't be used in battle.
You could still use an HM in a normal slot, say, if you wanted to use surf in battle, but if you wanted that same 'mon to know surf, it wouldn't waste an attack
>>25626527
To know dive*
So many babbies on /vp/ it is ridiculous. HMs are no longer an issue now that we have move deleters and infinite tms. All you fucking casuals sicken me.
>>25619756
I'd rather they become special abilities instead of attacks. Or have some NPC teach you how to unlock those abilities.
>>25619859
This could work too, especially since badges dictate Pokemon's obedience.
I liked the pokemon mounting idea they sort of explored.
Rather than have HM moves, give every second/final evolution pokemon their own unique (or fairly varied) field ability. So if you need to get accross the water, there are varying ways to do so, but it depends on what pokemon you have.
Like you can ride a rapidash a bit faster than the bike, surf on lava with Magmortar, normal surf on lapras, push shit with machamp, jump up fences with Grumpg or whatever.
