Have we found the new "too much water" meme?
No, they're right for once. Do the devs seriously expect me to be able to memorize input sequences longer than 2 buttons?
>>25593188
I'd be overwhelmed by Machamp's hugemechanicstoo
>>25593207
Perhaps this game is more suited for you.
>>25593207
Seriously? I thought 7 or so button sequences was a staple of fighting games.
>>25593188
One of the most basic fighting games ever, and they have the balls to say it's overwhelming
>>25593207
>this post
>>25593188
The "too much water" complaint was actually valid if people had read the review. 16/34 Routes had only some variation of the Wingull and Tentacool family as regular encounters.
>>25593227
Is Smash 4 too hard for the babby?
>>25593188
>>25593227
well, I believe it's going to be better and more balanced than Smash
now all I need is a Wii U, to get this game
>>25593292
That's an issue with random encounters not route configuration.
>>25593344
Nope. As soon as it's released and there is a large community for it, it's going to be Smogonned to death and you'll be saying that everyone should realize that the game was never balanced to begin with.
>>25593227
Oh I love that game
>>25593188
>Overwhelming mechanics for a game that isn't even out yet
>Reviews have probably only been able to play it for a week
>-2 points for some shit like that
Overwhelming mechanics is a good thing, it's going to separate the retards from the people who can actually utilize the best practices in the game and increase the lifespan of the game.
>>25593344
>>25593375
I'm still baffled by the sheer stupidity of tourneyfags.
Every Smash game has been so fucking broken, what possessed them to start that autistic tiers shit?
>>25593375
Do you know how hard it is to balance a fighting game? And are you deriding people who try to get better at games?
>>25593188
>gaming journalism
>>25593375
What? You do know that at high level, there aren't any balanced fighting games?
>>25593375
Oh, so Smogon only deals with specifically Pokemon games? They don't want to try and fix Smash, a totally flawed game in so many aspects
A normal human being can look at the mechanics, and say, "that's fucking stupid"
But them Smash elitists think it's a perfect fucking game
>>25593458
Well the tiers are in place to group characters together in terms of their competitive viability, so, for example, people know who the characters that are actually worthwhile to use. And when people want to use characters that aren't as viable, they can both use the tier list as a guide to picking similarily-strengthed characters so it's not just a faceroll fest for one player. Just like smogon, there's no point in using shitters unless it's against other shitters so it's fair.
>>25593458
You answered your own question by saying that every smash game is so fucking broken.
>>25593375
>>25593486
Smogon will have nothing to do with Pokken Tournament because it's not a pokemon game; it's a fighting game and even if they try to, tournament organizers will actually just not follow Smogon rules if they're actually retarded.
Daggit, I meant people like Smogon, not Smogon themselves.
>>25593458
Because it's a list of viable characters at high levels of play. There's literally nothing wrong with that. Arguing this is like using LC pokemon in OU, you can do it but don't be surprised when you lose.
>>25593493
this is completely wrong
competitive tiers, are the character's that are literally better than everyone else, that take no skill to even play as
Meanwhile actual good characters that could possibly destroy them, are left in the dust, because no one even cares to try them
>>25593458
You just contradicted yourself.
Why would a Smash game be broken? Because some characters are stronger than others. And thus, people make tier lists in order to separate them by how strong they are.
>>25593486
every smash 4 player ive ever talked to agrees that the game is unbalanced as fuck
>>25593534
Do you honestly think that people make tier lists to be completely arbitrary just to false-flag the characters that are actually bad?
By your logic, a new player can start playing Fox in Melee and just get free wins against every other character when top players can use the worst characters in the game and beat them every time because the players are actually good.
>>25593557
everyone I've talked to will say, "you only died because you are bad at the game, there was nothing broken in that, it was all your fault in every way, learn the fucking mechanics and grab spam more"
I may be paraphrasing though
>>25593534
Yeah alright tell me it takes no skill to play best melee fox. He's shit for casuals. Meanwhile an amateur playing ganon can do well with little talent but get his poop swooped in the upper tiers
>>25593534
>Tier placement has literally anything at all to do with potential for skilled play
>Tier placement in a game like Pokémon means the same thing as tier placement in a fighting game
>>25593462
>>25593493
Pokemon is a fucking game for kids where a dragon can be pitted against a rat, a monkey, a robot, or a ghost.
Smash has abysmal gimmicky characters fighting along autism-monsters like Fox and Meta-Knight.
>>25593527
>only losers dislike smogon
Japs don't care about tiers and most of them shit on the average western player.
>>25593540
It's broken because it needs tiers.
Normal tournament-viable fighting games have characters that are easier to use but are mediocre hitters/bad range or characters that hit really hard or are really good at something but never a character that completely outclasses others.
Brawl's Pikachu and Meta-Knight are pretty much impossible to counter at moments. Melee's Bowser had such garbage recovery moves that it made no sense to use it most of the time. Smash1's Fox was so stupid fast that it completely breaks the game.
>>25593573
>>25593591
>>25593596
>Smash 4 Shiek
>>25593584
well you can maximize your skills and results in any game, even unbalanced ones, by utilizing what have been found to be the best playstyles. its similar to how pokemon can be played to a pretty competitive level despite it being so unbalanced and reliant on RNG
also the people you play with sound like huge assholes, try getting your friends into it
>>25593584
Well yeah, this is true. If you're bad at the game, how do you expect to win against someone who knows what they're doing? Being actually bad at something doesn't mean it's broken.
>>25593372
Which was the case the review was making, I'm sure 90% of the people spouting the "too much water" meme hadn't even read the whole thing.
But I guess it's a lost cause, most people that care about reviews only care abut the score and bullet points and not the actual review anyway. Just look at how popular metascore is.
>>25593188
Nintendoworldreport rated it
TOO MUCH FIRE
>>25593486
The equivalent people to Smogon in the Smash community has ProjectM.
>>25593616
>>25593623
except, I am actually good, obviously not these super high tiered players, but I can win against tough opponents
but if I see something wrong, everyone else brushes it off as me just being bad at the game not matter how suspicious it is
One of these days, I'm going to have to look up why real athletes don't act like this.
>>25593609
I don't understand what you're saying. Are you complaining that Sheik takes no skill and thus, is the only reason why Sheik is top tier? Did it never occur to you that the player could actually be really good? It doesn't sound like you can accept that some people are just better than you.
>>25593679
If you're actually good then why the fuck are you complaining? I highly doubt that you're a tournament player because you're blaming the game instead of blaming yourself for fucking up and that's one of the first things you see from scrubs.
You sound like the guy who whines when they lose to higher tier characters, claims to be good and then shits on the other person for playing a better character.
>>25593623
>>25593679
If the person who beat you are telling you why you lost. You should listen to them you retard.
>>25593686
It's generally because real athletes tend to compete against other real athletes that know their shit, and not against random faggots that just show up and act like tough shit.
>>25593720
>>25593735
If there are some characters that are inherently better then the game is not balanced. Why would you deny this?
>>25593534
Well I won't argue that there may be a few diamonds in the rough that end up going undiscovered in fighting games, but competitive scenes that have been around for a very long time (example Melee) have clearly shown there is a group of characters that are clearly better than the rest, and if you think it takes no skill to play the currently ranked #1 character, Fox, at a high level you're a complete idiot.
>>25593773
If every character has an identical playstyle, yes
bunch of lowtiergods in this thread
>>25593292
Well to much land
>>25593769
Really? I thought it was because there is some kind of standard AGAINST being a stuck up dickwad, but okay.
>>25593375
>>25593344
As a Tournament Organizer, I can say a few things about Pokken.
It's going to be very expensive to host since we'll need 2 Wii U's, 2 Monitors and 2 copies of the game just to play one match.
Rulesets are put into place so that the tournament runs smoothly, minimizes the amount of RNG and avoids potentially game breaking things. I don't know what these potentially game breaking things are but we'll see.
Fighting games are never balanced at a high level and the only thing that changes tier lists are results and evidence that supports the listings. Example, if Blaziken can deal 200 damage to Lucario for very little risk, it is assumed to be a bad match for Lucario, if Lucario has more bad matchups than Blaziken then Lucario cannot be better than Blaziken until evidence appears supporting that.
I don't understand why people complain about competitive games. Don't play if you can't handle losing or hate the fact that some characters are better than others.
>>25593686
An athlete needs to spend thousands of hours training for your sport, and that's for a chance to compete in it. At that point you not only know the sport inside and out but the others you play with do as well; if they comment on something you did, chances are they're right
Someone playing smash, conversely, need only pay a few hundred for the console and game
>>25593188
Sounds like the review doesn't understand that they were playing a fighting game and that they have complex and overwhelming mechanics
>>25593773
I'm not denying it. I'm saying that if you want to play a lower tier character, don't complain when you lose to a higher tier character because you (as the low tier player) have to work twice as hard. Not only do you have to be the better player, you have to understand how to play the match considering that there probably aren't a lot of players who also know what to do.
Like, if I play Zelda, I'm not going to have the same amount of people to get feedback from as a Sheik player because Zelda is worse and less popular because of it. It is possible that maybe you are the person who will figure out that "This bottom tier character actually beats this top tier character!" but you have to understand that it's going to be much harder.
>>25593780
I'm not a great Smash player by any means because I don't give a shit about winning at Smash, but just picking Link, Fox, Meta-Knight, Sheik or anything that is on a higher tier than my mains really gives me better results.
>>25593785
It's not about playstyle. Play a real fighting game for once.
>>25593805
There's more dickwads in video games than in sports because there are a lot more scrubs playing skilled people there.
Professional handegg teams usually don't play games against teams of random douches that only sort of picked up the rules from watching games on TV while half drunk.
>>25593852
How is this converse? I don't understand your thinking at all.
>An athlete trains to compete
>Someone competing in anything else doesn't have to know the sport inside and out to place well
If you're going to compete at anything, you need to practice. There's no way around it.
>>25593884
>Link
>high tier
link is only good on wifi where the lag lets you cheese in attacks that otherwise wouldve been blocked
by "results" its from tournament play, not from the retard roulette of FG
>>25593188
>Too much fighting
>>25593852
I don't think that's a good excuse for not being able to respect anyone. They still put in the same effort, and they're still just as skilled as you.
>>25593884
If you're not a great smash player then it doesn't matter as much. Tier lists become less relevant as people have less understanding of why "X character beats Y". This is why better players just typically, beat worse players.
>>25593907
This >>25593584 guy was not competing in an organized event, he was just playing against someone that I assume did compete in such events.
>>25593922
idunno, Link used to be good.
I've been completely disconnected from tourneyshit since Sm4sh.
>>25593905
Nah it's because nerdlords never get socialized in school for competitive and team based environments so there's poor sportsmanship, salt, bad manners, etc. galore while a jock who played football in high school is way less likely to have these problems because they'll have been better prepared emotionally and professionally for those kinds of situations.
>>25593188
>no points taken off for needing two consoles to play the game locally at 60fps
>>25593907
>>25593925
I think there's a misunderstanding. The original topic was why there's not as many athlete's blaming the game, instead of themselves, like we see in a lot of competitive gamers
>>25593832
I would assume that a tournament organizer would already have more than one monitor and more than one console
>>25593925
No, that's the thing. The people complaining against "e-athletes" acting like this towards them aren't "e-athletes" themselves, they just play against people that are.
"Real athletes" don't act this way towards scrubs because they never play against scrubs in the first place.
>>25593952
>You're all winners!
>Here's your trophy for playing instead of actually winning!
>>25593925
its because these video game communities' roots are in the internet, where its much easier to be an asshole and the real consequences are nonexistant. by this point its just not shocking or particularly offending to see a player be disrespectful
>>25593970
No, I assure you, I was talking about why gamers have bad manners and athletes don't. I don't know what everyone else was doing.
>>25593976
>he quit football in elementary school
laughing-undetermined-egg-group.sdr
>>25593971
This is true but I still need twice as much equipment to host compared to anything else out right now. Those 6 Wii U's and monitors I have now stop being 6 stations and drop to 3.
I really hope SM has like a flooded town or something, and all the NPCs just say "8/10 too much water"
>>25593976
That's more a little league thing than high school thing. Kids aren't getting pity drafted by colleges with illegal hookers and drugs, y'know.
>>25593994
Oh, looks like it's my bad then. Guess I'd go with the more common match ups with high skill disparity and it being a mostly solitary thing, like some others have said
>>25593375
>it's going to be Smogonned to death
The only thing you can realistically ban in fighting games are characters
and if one character is way better than the other characters the communty as a whole will decide to ban it
>>25593994
Gamers have bad manners because it's just not as hard as playing an actual sport at times. Thinking about all of the pro gamers who just played for a very long time isn't necessarily the same. If you notice, the top tier players have that athlete level mentality because they worked hard to be there.
>>25594053
Project M says hi.
>>25594053
this reminds me something
It reminds me of how stupid Smogon is
Smogon bans Blaziken because of speed boost
now Blaziken can't be used at all, even without speed boost
then they ban baton pass from multiple pokemon, so that you can only use one baton passer using if/then
"but we can't make complex bans"
>>25594053
There's a lot of things you could ban in Pokken.
>Characters
>Stages since they have different distances from the walls and the other player
>Assists
But the characters and assists have to be stupidly overpowered and I don't think the company that made Tekken would have something so ridiculously strong. Stage bans are the only things I could possibly see but even then, the community is not going to ban stages that start really close or ones that start really far away. Instead, there will almost definitely be a stage of neutral stages and then the winner will ban stages much like Smash Bros.
>>25594083
Dead game that should stay dead.
So competitive gaming that is not a sport is just fucked no matter what, huh?
>>25594142
Competitive gaming is a sport. Why would it be fucked? It just gatekeeps people harder because video games are so easy to get into but just as hard to be really good at.
>>25594126
you know, I want to make a Project M character for Wii U
except he won't be a cookie cutter weirdo
how? I don't fuckin know
>>25594170
The issue is that it's impossible to separate video or card game players because it's entirely possible to just come in with everything you need to know to devastate everyone. That's why it's fucked. Everyone that didn't bother with this is immediately going to be squashed at random. It makes even getting into it at all a next to impossible task. No game should have standards like that.
>>25594126
USF4 managed to be somewhat balanced, even with all of its characters. Why is that? Is it because of the very basic mechanics of Smash favoring some characters over others?
>>25594367
What is wrong with people with knowledge beating people without knowledge? That's not a standard for a game; it's a standard for competition. If you're going to compete and you don't know how to win, you're going to lose. It's not random. Everyone that doesn't want to bother to learn or "get good" is going to be squashed because they're not the better player.
The bottom line is "If you want to win, you need to know how to win. If you don't want to win then you aren't willing to compete"
>>25594381
Somewhat balanced is not balanced. The core mechanics of a game don't change the balance for the game within itself. Basically, it doesn't make sense to compare USF4 balance to Smash balance because they are completely different games and you should compare things that exist inside of the game you're talking about. It doesn't matter how you look at it, lower tier characters have more bad matchups than higher tier characters.
>>25594381
I played that.... when I tried to punch someone twice, they punched me before the second punch even started
like.... I'm pretty sure if I punch someone, they suffer what's called, hitstun, so then they can't do anything to defend themselves if they fail to block the first punch
but they didn't, and they took damage, but they still hit back
>>25594539
m8 there's a lot more to it than "I tried to punch someone twice and it didn't work" in street fighter
sounds like you tried to do something like a jab and then a fierce punch and they jabbed you out of it
>>25594539
You don't understand frame data or hitstun enough.
>>25594587
nope, two jabs, first one connects, second one doesn't because now I've been hit
>>25594606
well then you fucked up the timing
that is literally the only explanation based on the information you have given me
>>25594606
That means they understand the game better than you. Git gud.
>>25594478
Well, the problem is that doesn't matter to card or video games. Apparently, there's no such thing as just playing casually, and anyone that just wants to play to be playing is going to be squashed just for not "getting gud". Then no one wants to play your game unless they WANT to be a fucking douchebag. CAN YOU EVEN COMPREHEND WHAT I AM SAYING? There is no safety and you can't play without having expert knowledge to start with. You are expecting a child to survive Army Rangers/Navy Seals/any other special ops, and they have no choice in the matter.
>>25594649
If you just want to play tennis casually, do so with a random buddy that's on your level, not a professional player you know will destroy you.
>>25594478
>>25594478
What I mean to say is that slower and heavier characters tend to be fucked over, since the entire system is based on knockback and such. Since they're so much heavier, they're more prone to getting comboed. Not to mention how all the light and fast characters have better recoveries. There aren't any corners to take advantage of, and there's less options in general.
>>25594649
Find a better circle of people to play with m8.
My local fighting game scene is more than happy to teach new or less experienced players, the problem is they usually have a bad attitude towards losing.
It's usually goes something like this - Some dude casually plays Street Fighter/Tekken/Whatever with his mates through the years growing up, never really getting beyond the level of "I can do a basic combo". Never bothers looking up anything more involved because he's always been top of his pack.
Guy finds our group online, decides to come down one evening, is lucky to win one match the entire evening. We've seen it plenty of times. Sometimes they stay and improve as players after massive losing streaks or they get mad at losing and leave.
Anyone still with us is the former, obviously. A decent community won't care if you're new to a game or genre, they only care if you're willing to stick to it and learn.
>>25594649
What are you talking about? We just established that the argument was about "Competitive Gaming"
>>25594142
>>25594170
>>25594367
This does also matter in card and video games when you're competing. That's the entire argument. I don't understand why you think people can't just play casually, if you want to play casually then do it. That still doesn't change the fact that someone with more knowledge than you is going to perform better even in a casual environment.
When you play a game, you're forced to learn how to play the game are you not? There are tons of ways to avoid these people who put effort into the game like only playing with your casual friends and avoid online play; basically just any way that controls the skill level of players.
>>25593227
Nope Ryu exists now. Too many inputs.
>>25593188
>>25593632
They wrote the damned bullet point in the first place, so they deserved whatever came coming from it.
The entire point of the bullet point is to summarize an issue succinctly, not to make some 'witty' quip.
>>25594694
Oh, are you arguing that the core mechanics of Smash promote lighter, faster characters compared to the core mechanics of Street Fighter not typically promoting a certain type of character? Depending on which one you're arguing will change whether I think you're right or wrong.
I don't understand the overall statement though. Depending on when smash game you're talking about, some heavy characters are actually pretty good.
>>25594801
Isn't Charizard pretty decent in Smash 4?
>>25594649
>How dare good players be good even in casual play! They should forget everything and play like me so I can win.
>>25594815
She's almost at the bottom.
>>25594815
No, She's pretty bad. Bowser is the best heavy character in Smash 4.
>>25594801
Certain heavy characters in the later smashes are pretty good and several of the classic good characters in SF are known for being fast. SF2 Claw, Blanka. SF3 Yun, Chun, Ken, Dudley. SF4 Akuma, Seth, C.Viper, Yun, E.Ryu. In SF5 Chun and Claw are both pretty high up in the tiers right now and are fairly speedy.
>>25594801
Yeah, the heavies tend to get screwed over with a few exceptions, but whenever it comes to tournaments, they don't stand a chance.
Most heavies in fighting games at least have some sort of anti-projectile tools, as well as enough health to handle tons of damage, but most heavies in Smash don't have any of that.
>It's a "This is my first foray into a new genre and I don't understand why I keep losing, fucking tryhards!" thread
What's the point of this game if I only care about, I don't know, the fucking Pokémon themselves?
>>25594835
Even then, you rarely see him or DK placing highly, mainly because they're basically combo fodder.
>>25593632
Which is hilarious, because thats LITERALLY what people on /vp/ would bitch about in Hoenn. In fact, they still do. IGN's retarded, but /vp/'s just so pointlessly anti-establishment that even when IGN agrees with them, they cant help but scratch that contrarian itch and meme about it.
>>25593188
I know it's probably been said a million times, for for fucks sake. This game's actually been (rightfully so) made simpler and less needlessly complex than nearly every standard fighting game. Ill say it again, IGN's retarded.
>>25594842
I'll go through it for you.
In SF2: Claw didn't win because he was fast, it was because he really only needed one button on the ground and could just diveclaw crossup more than half of the cast to death and Blanka is not even close to top tier in that game.
In 3rd Strike: Yun was good because of his insane damage output with his super art 3 immediately after which he could get half of the meter back again, Chun had insane buttons with a super that did a huge amount of damage from said buttons, Ken had 4 ways of landing a super with decent health, stun and damage. Dudley wasn't really fast, you needed good footsies to play him well.
In SF4: Rushdown and vortex characters win and in SF5, characters that win on the ground are ridiculously good; none of these characters are potentially fast but just effective in the meta.
When you compare it to Melee, faster characters have the ability to bait out attacks and control more of the stage because they are fast.
>>25594937
all of those characters are fast you dumbass, maybe not in the melee sense of being able to roll around forever and punish the opponent when they try to commit to something but in the terms of their own games they are fast
>>25593188
Be grateful your shitty spinoff at least got good reviews
That's all it's getting
TOO MUCH WATER IS A
VALID
A
L
I
D
FUCKING CRITICISM
>>25594919
>>25594855
>>25594842
Right so if Smash promotes faster characters, what's the argument? I'm not disagreeing with that.
>>25594965
It's not though.
That's like saying too much grass is a criticism.
>>25594961
It's confirmed for evo and is still pretty popular in Japan.
>>25594680
I thought the point was that you won't end up in a situation where a professional will play you because that just won't happen, or at least they'll have the sense not to bother.
>>25594736
Well, then apparently, there's something about collectibles that makes you into a flipping douchebag.
>>25594739
Both YGO AND Pokemon are an environment that doesn't care if you're casual. They will fuck you up regardless of who you are. Avoid it? Yes, that is the idea, but it's not very inviting, now, is it? Like I said, you're pretty much asking for douchebags. It's why I have no taste for competitive whatsoever. Granted, I've never been a sports person, so it probably wasn't going to happen. You are right in that sense. So if I don't want to be competitive, I should just not play those games against anyone at all? A warning would've been nice. Well, okay, I came into YGO under false pretenses, that was my own fault, but even though I'm not competitive, I feel those that want to get into for pokemon have to hit a wall that is way too steep.
>>25594953
I just pointed out that it isn't speed alone. Did you even read all of that? Blanka is fast but he's near bottom tier, Evil Ryu isn't fast, Akuma isn't fast or at least, they aren't the fastest characters in the game.
I guess I'm arguing that speed isn't instantly top tier in Street Fighter. I don't know what everyone else is arguing.
>>25594992
does the grass impede your forward progression or require some special means to traverse?
If so, too much grass is a valid criticism
>>25594966
Im not gonna bother reading through the huge chain of arguments to figure out who is arguing what and for what reason, but it's worth pointing out that, yes, Smash has a tendency towards faster characters, but the characters are so diverse that there are plenty that inevitably break this chain.
DK is a recent notable example for essentially tanking his way into the meta. He's relatively slow, with only a few moves that are "quick" in his neutral, but uses his huge weight to outlast the opponents and fish for his grab confirm.
>>25594966
Smash has more notable balance issues because of its mechanics, I guess. It's harder to make a diverse, balanced roster because of that, while other fighting games have an easier time due to concepts like command grabs, super armor, and corner pressure working in their favor.
>>25595018
>does the grass impede your forward progression or require some special means to traverse?
Nor does the water anon.
In fact now you have the option to move faster in the water.
>>25595028
>Smash has more notable balance issues because of its mechanics
As a smash fag, I half agree. You're right, it does have more balance issues, I won't argue with that, but I don't think it's due to the nature of the game, but to Sakurai's asinine development style.
I love the man, but he is one stubborn fuck. They don't truly dedicate themselves to making it balanced, they have this mish mash of "its gotta be balanced for casual AND competitive!", which ends up failing in both regards. Project M is a pretty good case of how the game can be much better balanced if that balance is focused. Nearly every character in that game was viable, with the biggest issue being the frequency of major balance updates more than anything.
>command grabs, super armor, and corner pressure working in their favor.
These DO exist in Smash, they're just sort of strewn about and placed in seemingly haphazard ways.
Well, except for Corner pressure, the closest equivalent of that would be SoS aerial approaches.
Point being is, I don't believe the formula of Smash is to blame, but the foolish decision to fruitlessly try and make a game balanced at both a casual and competitive level.
>>25595028
smash's nontraditional KO system and general lack of corners means speedy characters basically get to do whatever the fuck they want whereas in street fighter or tekken they'd get fucked up for getting pushed into a corner
>>25595041
>Nor does the water anon.
Yes it does, but I personally don't mind HMs that much.
>In fact now you have the option to move faster in the water.
Which is an incredibly odd approach, instead of actually making the wild encounters interesting they decreased the encounter rate and increased the surfing speed, it's like GF knows that the routes are boring.
>>25595006
This is your problem at this point and I think you're lying somewhere.
Is it inviting when tournaments are dominated by dominant players? Not for people playing casually and if you don't have a taste for competition, why are you arguing? If you don't want to be competitive then you shouldn't enter tournaments where people are there, literally, to compete. You play these games with people around your level or friends either way, you still have to play to find people to play with. Eventually, you'll find people you'll want to play with.
Why are you automatically calling players who know how to compete "douchebags"? People who go to tournaments don't care about casual players coming into the tournament because they aren't threatening when it comes to them winning the tournament.
Are you arguing that people who play at this level are douchebags because they don't care about the casual players? If you are, did you ask yourself, "Why would they?" I don't think you did.
>>25595132
>Yes it does
Not him but doesn't.
A large amount of pokemon learn surf and it's impossible to miss getting the HM.
is somebody bitching about tournaments not being inviting to new players? lmao
at tournaments there is usually money or some other prize on the line, people are going to be playing to win, not to teach newbies how to play
>>25595028
I'll agree with that. There are cases where the slower, heavy character can win but I think it goes without saying that lighter, faster characters or campy ones do better as of right now.
That's all subject to change as players get better and the meta goes, Look at Mew2, beating one of the best players in history with a character a lot of people thought was C tier.
I just wanna know why it took us 20 years to get a pokemon fighting game
>>25595087
That, and no patch notes.
There's still issues with PM, and part of it stems from Melee. If a new game was made with actual tournament viability in mind, it'd be far more entertaining. On the other hand, there's also the fanservice aspect, which can also be emphasized for more enjoyability. Unfortunately, the series is trying to be both, and not quite excelling at either.
If there were a world where Smash was like those Dragon Ball or Naruto games, where they just put in as much fanservice as possible, nobody would mind.
>>25595176
This. And even after that, I know a lot of really good players who are willing to teach newer players after the tournament, myself included, I love teaching new players so tournaments are more exciting. Pokken is even making it a big thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObnAhGMlVlk
>>25593219
That's a Machoke, silly.
PREP
>>25595248
yeah, I've been on both sides of the "hey man, nice match. I really struggled against that thing you kept doing, mind showing me how to avoid it for next time?" conversation after a match
people are usually really friendly and happy to help others improve, it's just that expecting people to go easy on you in an actual tournament match is the place where it's least likely to happen
>>25595248
Yeah, I find this funny.
I got to a weekly in Southeast MI every once in awhile, and most of the best Smash players in MI go there, with other big names showing up occasionally.
Most of them are cool dudes. There are some that are pretty neckbeardy and not socially aware, but its rare to see straight up dicks. The dicks are usually the new people who walk in, big fish in a small pond type who get their ass handed to them by people who know what theyre doing.
>>25594992
It is when hm's exist.
Fuck surf.
>>25595169
>getting kicked in the balls 800 times is fine if you get some morphine first
>you'll barely even feel it!
>>25595257
The difference between machoke and machamp is onlya few inches;^)
>>25595290
Yep, the only person that has ever been a dick to me at tournament was after I beat him. I've never ran into someone who beat me and then kneed me in the nose.
>>25595388
Elaborate as to how it hinders the player.
>>25595388
I agree with your overall point that the current setup is outdated and acts as an inconvenient barrier, but that's a really dumb way to present your argument.
>>25594992
"Too much water" or "Too much grass" alone wouldnt be, but relative to the game mechanics, it can be.
If you're walking around and you're riddled with wild encounter rates constantly, it gets fucking annoying. It's disruptive, and it doesn't help that GF feels this need to have the absolute most uninteresting pokemon be the only encounters. There's a reason eveyrone and their grandma has a shiny Tentacool, it's because Tentacool as a whole is probably the single most encountered pokemon in history.
They took a step in the right direction by having the encounter rate lowered and the speed at which you travel higher, but its not enough. They have the luxury of having an actual camera, yet refuse to use it beyond "ooh, look at how cool Route 1 is in Kalos :)"-- why not pull that shit back more in the sea so you can see further and actually get a non-frustrating sense for the vastness of the water routes? Lower the encounter rate a tad more, and add some actual variety in the encounter types.
Furthermore, the HM system is a very cool idea that's very outdated. It's nice in the sense that they thought "hey, wouldnt it be cool if Pokemon interacted with you outside of batle, and acted as a way to traverse otherwise impassable obstacles?". Cool idea.
Needing to take up a valuable moveslot for a move is a bad idea. The Eon Flute is a perfect, elegant solution to this. Another potential solution (perhaps, on top of that) is having any pokemon that can innately swim just be able to ferry you without the use of a move dedicated to it (and perhaps requiring a badge or special Key item to simply be held to "unlock" that ability to restrict you from using it too early).
The game's are meant to promote exploration, but that instantly gets bland when general movement becomes even a slight chore
I'm just hopping my favorite characters are good really.
>>25595494
Fuck, why did you have to post a text wall. They're the most annoying thing to reply to on a phone.
>about a third of this thread
>>25594937
I was wondering who was stand-out good in SFV since it's difficult to actually get a read on who stands out as good or bad.
>>25595624
Zangief is actually very good. Chun is suspect to be top tier with no bad matchups, Karin is suspected to be high tier with an insane ground game. SFV is going to be a high-risk, high-reward game, this is definitely the most read heavy Street Fighter since it's so hard to get people off of you. The best characters will rather be the ones there are the best at keeping people away and the characters that are the hardest to get away from.
>>25595644
>zangief is good
Says who
>>25595673
Snakeeyez has been getting some pretty good results.
Birdie and Bison also defy the expectations people have of heavies by having so many options.
>>25594083
Forget PM, vanilla Smash says hi.
It took fucking years to ban Meta Knight and they still fucking went back on it. And even if someone from Smash 4 needed to be banned, they wouldn't do it.
This would probably apply to Melee too if not for the fact that there are so many broken or semi-broken characters that they effectively form their own 2-3 tiers far above everyone else.
>>25595673
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fehj9ncfrSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGYvnZYNJ4
Of course this alone isn't enough to understand why Gief is good. Because of the nature of SFV, if Gief gets in, he can kill you faster than any character and it's more risky than ever to try and guess with a reversal since you'll get Crush Countered and/or Stunned. He can combo into Super from his V-reversal and with crouching LKs, he can meaty and nullify projectiles with headbutt. There's more but I would have to explain his dynamic against other characters. He only has two horrible matchups, Nash and Dhalsim.
>>25593207
If you think this game is too complex, don't ever play Street Fighter.
>>25594001
If the region is based on Hawaii like most fans are speculating, I could very well see that happening.
>>25595742
Snakeyes is the best gief player in the world and it could still just be a case of early game grappler syndrome - I don't know who's the best and worst in sf5, and it's still too early to say, but chun is probably who I'd nominate for best right now.
I'll be interested to see zangief play at evo
>>25594083
Fanfic isn't relevant when discussing video games.
>>25594965
Spotted the noob who never bought Max Repels.
>>25595826
>Buying max repels
>when super repels are more cost effective
Do the math, man, come on
>>25593188
Is the game Tekken levels of complicated combos? Lower or Higher?
>>25595852
>more cost effective
It's not like it matters when getting a lot of money in Pokémon is easy anyways.
>>25596084
Certainly not as complicated, but at the very least, there's combos.
>>25593207
People have been playing string instruments for hundreds of years with no problem, and that's way more complicated than any fighting game command.
You're incompetent.
>>25596224
You should play a fighting game by rote memorization of a specific set of commands that you use every time you play.
See how far that gets you.
>these oranges don't taste like apples at all!
>>25596333
That's just as stupid of a way to "learn" music.
>>25596193
>>25596375
Paying 75 Pokedollars extra for a max repel in comparison to super repel is literally nothing in Pokemon, especially in the newer games where you can easily get more money than you'll ever use.
>>25596203
Alright, so about as much of a time sink as any other fighting game to learn.
Anybody got an opinion on how good or bad Gardevoir is in the game? It's my favorite pokemon, so I'll main it either way. I like zoners alright, so that's a plus for me too, but just wondering.
>>25596909
Isn't it one of the best mons?
>>25596983
In general, at least in my opinion, it's the best. I have no idea for Pokken though.
Another batch of review scores:
>Gaming-Age: A-
>Hobby Consolas (Spanish): 80/100
>Gamereactor España: 7/10
>Revogamers (Spanish): 8/10
>Nintenderos (Spanish): 7.5/10
>WiiUX (German): 8/10
>Nintendo Inquirer: 8/10
>We Got This Covered: 4/5
>Kidzworld: 4/5
>Shinigaming: 8/10
>SA Gamer: 7.8/10
>Geek Node: 7/10
>Nintendo Feed: 8/10
>Marooner's Rock: 9/10
>N1ntendo (Dutch): 7.8/10
>Trusted Reviews: 3.5/5
>Gaming Respawn: 85/100
>NintendOn (Italian): 7.9/10
>Kingdomgame.it: 8/10
>BadGames.it: 8/10
>VGNetwork.it: 8/10
>GameSoul.it: 7/10
>I Love Videogames (Italian): 8.5/10
>Akiba Gamers (Italian): 4.2/5
>Nintendo-Town.fr: 84/100
>S2PMag (French): 3.7/5
>Eclypsia (French): 14/20
>Player-Zone (French): 6/10
>GamerGen (French): 17/20
>LightninGamer (French): 7.5/10
>Gamer-Network (French): 7.7/10
>Puissance Nintendo (French): 15/20
>Le Journal du Gamer (French): 8/10
>GIGA GAMES (German): 9/10
>Gamona (German): 6/10
>Gameswelt (German): 9/10
>NETZWELT (German): 7/10
>Beyond Pixels (Austrian): 8.5/10
>SHOCK2 (German): 8/10
>FZ.se: 3/5
>Spelnyheterna (Swedish): 8/10
>GameMAG (Russian): 7/10
>>Metacritic: 76
>>25596224
String instruments are pretty easy to learn anon so I'd making a song because you can make it as fast or slow as you want.
Fighting game inputs require speed especially against another person.
>>25593832
You can buy used WiiU's for $60-$150 easily
You can buy a 19 inch tv for $100-$150
Two copies cost $96 @Best Buy.
you can buy two controllers for $30
not expensive, especially back in the day where some games needed arcade cabinets, sometimes two, which arcade cabinets cost thousands of dollars.
>>25593344
Too many imputs to a smash babie like you. Go pretend you can feel nostalgia for the gamecube while being younger than it.
>>25593982
>phase shift
>Pros
This shit is disgusting.
>>25593292
What are repels
>oh nice, Pokken got good reviews
>maybe there's positive discussion going on here now regarding this game I'm excited for, oh boy oh boy
>it's literally a smash tourneyfag thread
oh
nevermind
>>25593227
this
"competitive" smash players are just rejects who can't get good at a real fighting game
can you use gamecube controllers for this game?
pls respond
>>25599135
You cannot.
>>25599135
Why would you be able to.
Smash is the only game that's really compatible.
>>25593292
It's literally the only mainline game whose main focus is on land and sea, of course there's going to be more water terrain than any other game.
>>25593720
all that blonde hair
Been reading impressions about this game and this caught my eye
>One of my favorite Pikachu Libre moves is her Double Team. Part dodge move and part mind game, Pikachu Libre will make three clones of itself laid out in a row. The direction you hold (left, right, or nothing) will change which image is the real Pikachu Libre, meaning you can dodge attacks while making it unclear which direction you went.
Somehow I feel this going to be really broken in the hands of a good player, but we'll see.
>>25599540
I play arcade and most Libre players don't use it, I didn't play him a lot but from what I did play of him it didn't work very often because people who know what they're doing can stuff you out of it.
You can't cancel into it and most pokemon have attacks that are wide enough to hit you no matter what side you choose, you need to really make them scared to hit buttons first which is hard on Field Phase.
>>25599246
Did you not understand what that anon said at all? That's like saying it's fine if more than half the grass on land contained only pidgeys.
>>25593457
>increase the lifespan of the game.
you mean like Skullgirls?
>>25599571
In your opinion what are the best and worst of the roster?
>>25593188
>trying to force memes
>>25593720
>USD$41.63 grand prize
damn holy shit
>>25593457
You don't subtract points for every negative aspect of a game, dude. You choose a score based on the quality of the overall product.
Even if the mechanics had the appropriate amount of whelm it still wouldn't have gotten 10/10.
>>25593458
Couldn't you say the same about Pokémon?
Pokemon tourneyfags are autism incarnate
Should I even bother with this if I'm not a competitive player?
>>25603310
It looks easy enough to pick up
I'd say go for it
>>25603364
I have a classic controller pro for the Wii. I think I'll stick with that instead of getting a Wii u pro controller or hori pad for now. The dpad seems good enough for it
I like how people seem to think they were the first one's to complain about too much water, shit was a meme for years before ORAS was a thing.
>>25593188
>"Pokken Tournament is sadly a disappointement.
>When it could have been an all-round and fun game, giving a nice homage to the Pokémon franchise, it ends up being an overly simplistic and content-lacking fightan game.
>With a roster strong of a whopping 14 pokémons when they had 700+ to choose from, Bandai-Namco's teams did the bare minimum. It also shows on the graphics from another gen and the very small number of game modes, which you will get over with pretty quickly.
>For 200 yens a play in an arcade room, you could overlook all of this. But this is a full price console release.
>A pity, because the game has a couple of good ideas that aren't fully exploited. The game is nevertheless pretty responsive and easy to get into, with a solid online and easy to learn gameplay, thus more suited for a young audience."
11/20
Fresh from JeuxVideo.com, which is the main vidya website in France for better and worse.
>>25593188
Overwhelming mechanics?
Fuck, the thing is easier to mash I mean play than KI, MKX or SFV.
Who is doing this shit reviews in IGN?
>>25603600
>>25603576
>Polygon: nice graphics, too complicated
>France: shit graphics, easy to handle
>>25603576
These are some good points. I guess if you're interested in it, you may as well get a used copy if you're unsure.
>>25603617
>American "gaymen Journalism"
>Not filled to the brim with casuals
>>25593207
Why can /vp/ not recognise sarcastic posts
>>25598537
string instruments are easy after you learn to make a nice note
>>25603645
JVC is far from being a bastion of competence and integrity itself.
For reference, SFV was 17 and so was Naruto UNS4.
Triple AAA games with a nice marketing budget always get at least 16 to 18 out of twenty (Fallout 4, Watch Dog, CoD etc.)
>>25603621
Those are terrible points made by someone that doesn't even know what a fighting game IS.
