Can he ever be fixed? Mega evolution wouldn't help him since it doesn't raise HP, his defenses are already too high to add a lot more too and his attacking stats and speed stat are too low to be salvaged.
Honestly the only way it could possibly work is if they min-max, cut his defenses to about half and turn him into some sort of enraged monster with high attack and speed (but that would completely go against his original design and concept).
>>25585940
Break the mold and upgrade its HP with the mega.
maybe, but what if it lost its shell when it mega evolved and underneath that shell was a bunch of crazy shit
Here's two ways you can "fix" him.
First: Give him an actual evolution, gen 4 style. Doesn't have to put much thought into it. Raise his HP by five points. Raise his attacking stats by 10. The important part is that this would qualify Shuckle for Eviolite, making him even harder to kill.
The second: Mega Evolution. Give Mega Shuckle an equivalent of Desolate Land for Trick Room. Turn one: Power Trick. Turn two: Mega Evolve. As the slowest pokemon, you are now god-king shitwrecker of the universe. Up until someone goes and uses a priority move anyway.
>>25585981
>Raise his HP by five points
Dusknoir weeps
Shuckle is fine. Being almost ensured to set up Sticky Webs is a huge boost to teams relying on it and gives Shuckle enough of a purpose. Worry about buffing total shitmon like Dusknoir and Fearow instead.
How is he broken?? He can kill whole teams. Contrary Shell smash.
>>25585981
>trying to save it with eviolite
Doesn't have any reliable recovery desu
Just remove it's Bug typing
rock-type recovery would be enough to save a lot of mons
>>25586788
>just give it two more weaknesses
what needs to be fixed about shuckle? its a silly,fun gimmick pokemon. not every pokemon has to be competitively viable, or be able to sweep, like you seem to want it to. shuckle works as stall or rocks/web.
>>25585940
Just change its typing to Normal/Ghost with Wonderguard.
>>25586827
It's not very good at stall since it has poor HP and pretty much no recovery. And it can even have trouble setting up rocks/web since Taunt shuts it down completely (and a lot of leads run Taunt).
>>25586243
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how you know someone is a shitter. God, I miss pre-XY hype /vp/.
Shuckle's problem is that it has no HP. While this isn't too much of a problem for some walls - look at Rotom-W - it has no reliable recovery and only Encore to make it not le free setup fodder.
Megas don't change the HP stat, so that's out of the question. Because of Eviolite continuity and lack of demand for new evolutions we're not getting any of those. So the best way to give Shuckle a little boost is to give it an exclusive recovery move. Call it Fermentation or something, and have it only work if the user is holding a Berry (it doesn't use the Berry when it uses the move). That way, it can still be Taunted, if the Berry is used it won't work meaning you'd have to hold a "useless" Berry like one that cures Confusion to take full advantage of it, it has to forgo Leftovers recovery, and it's at risk of things like Knock Off and Trick. It even fits with the theme of Shuckle.
Still, Shuckle is actually pretty decent thanks to dual hazards, making it not a complete waste of a team slot like it was prior to gen VI. And like >>25586827 said, it's a gimmick Pokemon, it doesn't necessarily have to be viable. There's plenty of gimmick mons like Plusle/Minun, Unown, Chatot, things like that.
If you want a real wall, anyway, you don't want it to be a Bug or a Rock type. There's too many weaknesses.
It's still my favorite Pokemon and I'll always love it no matter what.
>>25585981
>qualify Shuckle for Eviolite
Since I'm bored I ran some calcs to see how much would eviolite benefit shuckle, and apparently it only would only let it live 1 or 2 extra turns when hit by a STAB move.
I don't think there's much shuckle can do with that other than stall for a bit longer with toxic maybe, as it can already pretty much set sticky web and/or pebbles every time unless it gets taunted.
Giving it reliable recovery would help it more, I think
Game freak has raised some pokemon stats by 10 without telling us. If they raise shuckles hp by 10 we would see 50% more hp.
You could make him evolve with a metal coat to be metal shuckle With better stats.
Another option would be to give him prankster and recover.
>>25587093
>metal shuckle
>fermentation jar is now a keg of toilet hooch
>learns flame wheel
>>25586940
m-my nigga
>>25585940
isn't shuckle like the strongest pokemon or something to that degree?
>>25585959
Mega gains the ability mold breaker. Suddenly super agile goop ninja with no shell. Really unique looking glass cannon
>>25587960
You're a retard.
Shuckle is able to do the most damage possible, but it requires tons of setup.
>>25585959
>Break the mold
You're funny
>>25585940
BULLSHIT! Let's have an magic bounce(ability) defender, toxic, spider web, thunder wave etc. goes automatically back to the user, plus higher defense, higher spec defense, changing type from stone/bug to steel/bug. No attack rising random shit, hang yourself with "fag smash"
Just give it good moves. I can sense it would do well with offensive moves that don't care about his horrible attack stats, like foul play or night shade. or give him a paralyzing attack and laugh at those twerps who put - no wait, even than it would be slower. use trick room.
also,
>he
An idea:
Mega Shuckle
Solid Rock
20
70 (+60)
230
10
230
45 (+40)
>megas
Pls no. I already hate them. We don't need more.
Shuckle needs an evolution or a hp boost
>>25586817
>Weak to Grass, Ground, and Fighting
>Neutral to Rock
>Resist Fire and Flying
Hm.
>>25586788
No, Bug is important conceptually for hi- spdef. pure steel would suit it, but not pure rock.
Mega Shuckle
Simple
20
10
130 (-100)
180 (+170)
130 (-100)
135 (+130)
Give it Bug Buzz and Power Gem with Shell Smash.
No one would ever expect it.
Whats wrong with it being the stall master it is now?
>>25590406
>it got no hp
thats what evs are for
>it got no recovery moves
rest
>>25586751
rest/sleep talk/infestation/shell smash
contrary
>>25590510
How about
Remove sleep talk
add wrap or toxic
or remove shell smash as well and add both wrap and toxic, with sturdy this time
Give it a unique mega ability that makes its HP calculations unique or something to effectively add HP without actually adding HP.
>>25590803
how about
Sage - whenever this pokemon deals damage, it's max hp raise the amount of damage dealt and is healed half that amount?
>>25585959
Wouldn't help anon.
The HP would increase but it would stay at whatever it was before Mega evolution so it would have to have a good recovery move too.
>>25585940
I'm just happy best shitmon is as good as it is already. Any more buffs would be welcome, but completely unnecessary.
>>25586940
It'd be great if fermentation worked like aqua ring but instead increased by a set hp amount depending on the berry shuckle is holding. However it would use it up so it wouldn't be unlmited hp.
>>25586831
Dark-types say hello.
>>25585940
>Give it an Evo that simply gets a 100+ HP base stat boost
>Now Shuckle can run eviolite for those that still just want a decent Shuckle but its Evo has the "gimmick" of actually having decent HP for those fuckhuge defences
>Finally a Mega that adds 50 to Attack and 50 to Speed, with Regenerator
>Shuckle now gets Slack off and Trick Room
>>25586788
And suffer Fighting and Ground moves at double strength?
>>25590499
You're a fucking idiot.
Please don't discuss competitive balance ever again.
This is what I meant when I said I missed pre-XY hype /vp/.
>>25591607
It was still pretty shitty with everyone flocking here due to the magnemite trading but it has certainly gotten worse.
>>25590803
>Iron Spirit
>This pokemon takes half damage from every attack (not including Poison/Burn, Confusion, and Weather/Hazards)
In a way, its doubling its HP, but not making it too broken or even an obvious patch like, say, Huge Power is
>>25585940
>mega gains speed boost
>its defences are switched for offenses
>its 100 mega stats are set into speed
there
Shuckle now gets Recover. It also gets a Mega evolution that adds 100 to its HP, but it's ability changes toTruant
>>25591607
>name calling
Sure, whatever. grow some balls for the next discussion you are in to not get offended when your opinion is shown as wrong; free advice.
>>25591628
>Mega gains Speed Boost
>80 into Attack, 20 into Speed
>Protect/Stone Edge/Rest/Sleep Talk
Just wait out a few turns and bam.
You could do a mega, but more like a form swap ala Agislash or if you know a move ala MegaFug.
The move would be Shell Smash, and after using it Shuckle actually smashes it's shell and swaps its defense stats with attack and speed.
Then if you use Withdraw, it basically Haze effects the Shuckle, recovers 1/3 HP and reverts it to normal Shuckle.
It's ability could change to Moxie too.
>>25591700
>>25591717
...
>>25591717
You mean like this?
>>25591772
Yeah that kinda concept.
>>25591772
That's fucking hilarious and it shouldn't be
I need sleep badly
>>25591650
Put something with more accuracy than stone edge, forget rest and Sleep Talk.
You'd have 230 in attack and Special attack and extremely frail defenses and HP after all. Might as well go all out.
Something like Protect/Knock off/Sludge Wave/Rock Slide
>>25591607
>>25591648
Also, next time ttry coming up with a reason for your name calling. for example, try explaining why maxing evs for hp won't solve the problem of low hp, or why relying on rest to heal isn't good when you rely on infestion to do damage.
>>25591772
Give it a vest like a SMW Koopa.
>>25591648
Alright, faggot, here's how wrong your opinions are.
>That's what EVs are for.
EVs can only do so much and do not change the fact that Shuckle has TWENTY base HP. Yes, Shuckle has the highest possible Defense and Special Defense stats, but without HP he just can't sponge hits. The maximum amount of HP Shuckle can have is fucking 244. That's pathetic for a Pokemon that's supposed to be "tanky". To show you just how little that is, most common OU Pokemon have a higher HP stat with ZERO EV investment.
Here's a calc of Shuckle taking a hit versus a common powerhouse, Talonflame:
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shuckle: 112-133 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
And here's Eviolite Chansey taking the same hit:
>252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 312-367 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
If Shuckle was truly tanky, he would be able tot take that hit a LOT better than a Pokemon with base fucking five Defense. You can see that it's HP, NOT Defense, that actually makes a Pokemon tanky.
>Rest
Literally every Pokemon can learn Rest barring pic related of course. That's not RELIABLE recovery. RELIABLE recovery is: Recover, Wish, Synthesis, Slack Off, Roost, moves like that. Rest leaves you as a sitting duck for two turns, and for a Pokemon like Shuckle with so little bulk it just can't make use of it.
And for the record, Shuckle already has the highest Defense stat possible, so Eviolite wouldn't help him. What he NEEDS is HP.
>>25591844
No. Grow a spine if you're going to spout retarded opinions.
>>25591619
Yeah, at least we didn't have the anti-Smogon sentiment and cancerous Karenfags trying to act like they knew how competitive worked. If you try to make a competitive discussion thread today I can guarantee that it's mostly going to be crybabies shitposting about Smogon's tiering system and people who don't know what the difference is between checks and counters.
>+104 attack -4 speed
>Early Worm for two-turn Rest
>>25591978
>only 4 def
>not 128
>not reliable
the question is not 'reliable' but 'sufficient'. it heals, and shuckle is bulky enough to count on it.
anyway, just out of general curiosity, how would 4 hp/252 def suckle fare against a talonflame?
Shuckle's best set:
Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
- Accupressure
- Rest
- Power Split
- Rollout
It only works like 1 in 20 times but when you get lucky enough it's really satisfying.
>>25592039
You'l usually want to max your Special Defense since Shuckle's weaknesses are usually special-based attacks.
>>25592046
You robbed shuckle out of it's shuckleness tough.
>>25592064
You're still tanking hits until you get a chance to retaliate.
>>25592062
>weak to rock, steel and water
rock and steel are physical tough?
>>25592039
>only 4 hp
Not well.
>>25590803
who are these people n the picturedad-san could raw me
>>25592039
you take more damage
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 91-108 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Shuckle needs HP investment. In fact most walls need HP investment - Chansey and Blissey are the exception due to how huge their HP stats are.
>>25592201
what about
252 hp
128 def
128 spdef
?
>>25585940
recovery is the only thing it really needs
Shuckle is going to run into a lot of issues if it decides to go offensive for a Mega Evolution, most of it relating to its relative vulnerability to any pokemon it cannot immediately KO. I still believe it can be done, though.
That said, it would be pretty funny to beat someone into submission with Shuckle.
>>25592420
>most of it relating to its relative vulnerability to any pokemon it cannot immediately KO
If they swap the attack and defense stats like that anon suggested there won't be much it can't OHKO, the thing to look out for would be priority due to having the defenses of a paraplegic baby.
>>25590838
Couldnt it work like level ups?
Dont know how else to explain it, but when you level up if your HP is at 50% then you will gain HP to have it stay at 50%
>>25591978
>Still didn't answer about 252hp/128def shuckle
pfft
Next time do your homework before talking shit about others.
You own me an apology. I'll never get it, but you own me; Let it weight down on your karma so you will continue to make a fool of yourself in the future.
>>25592446
>If they swap the attack and defense stats like that anon suggested
Yes, it would have to be something like that.
Maybe 20/230/10/230/10/105?
As far as abilities go, Sturdy would alleviate a moveslot dedicated to Protect, but Mold Breaker would be both hilarious and useful.
>>25592657
That's not a very good spread - you're better off just investing all into physical defense.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Shuckle: 100-118 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
however
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Shuckle: 100-118 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
the best part is that you lose to any other Talonflame set - Swords Dance and SpDef Wisp + Taunt beat Shuckle ez. The only way you beat SD Talon is it it switches into you using Stone Edge while Stealth Rock is up - a very unlikely situation, since you're suppose to switch into it, not the other way around
