![M9GAV8C[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/4izUG2s.png "M9GAV8C[1].png")
So we all agree that Sun/Moon should be considered gen 6 if it still uses the pentagon, right? Because the whole point of the pentagon is to determine if a Pokemon is from gen 6.
>gen 6
>pentagon
Gen 6 is gen 5
New Pokemon + new region = new gen
I don't give a shit if it uses the pentagon, if it takes place in southern Kalos, or if it can battle and trade with gen 6. It has new Pokémon and an official source called it a new gen, it's a new gen. Get the fuck over it.
Pretty sure serebii confirmed it to be 7 gen
Get used to it
>>25582762
Same pentagon = same gen
>>25582792
>Get the fuck over it.
I think you're the one who needs to get the fuck over it pal.
![2z9cGuX[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/eYWjBSS.png "2z9cGuX[1].png")
>>25582796
Quite the opposite.
>>25582792
Kyurem Black and Kyurem White were called new Pokemon by Masuda. Masuda is an official source, and you're saying we should listen to official sources. And also by your logic, new Pokemon means a new gen. So to you BW2 is gen 6 and XY is gen 7?
>>25582803
>Same pentagon = same gen
That's retarded. New Pokemon has always meant the ushering of a new gen. SM are definitely going to have new mons (not just Megas/form changes) and presumably take place in a different region, there's no reason not to call it gen 7.
>>25582954
ORAS has megas, new moves, new abilities, and takes place in a different region.
>b-but megas are forme changes
The consequence of megas in ORAS that aren't in XY's data is literally no different from making new Pokemon that isn't in XY's data.
Just as new Pokemon have always been at the start of a new gen (until possibly now) there has always been different mechanics/compatibility changes. So they're just as valid. Pentagon is a better factor to judge it by because it's reason for even being there is to decide if a Pokemon is from gen 6.
>gen 1 had pokemon
>gen 6 has pokemon too
WE ARE STILL ON GEN 1
>>25582834
Never heard something THIS retarded.
Adding a fusion of old pokémon is not like adding 100 new pokémons.
>>25582810
Nigga Joe has been wrong numerous times in the past. He and everyone knows its Gen VII. He just doesn't want to be caught in the 6.5/7th Gen war going on. Game Freak can completely decide to not use the fucking pentagon. Just because that shit was datamined, doesn't mean they have to use it. Same goes with unused moves, though that shit is probably going to be distributed, or most likely in a post game.
>>25583005
So now it doesn't count because reasons? What is the exact number then? 3? 10? 30? 50? Sometimes when they say something official it should count, sometimes it shouldn't? Which is it?
Gotta give it to gen 6/6.5fags, at least they can keep their definitions fucking straight instead of flip flopping around.
>>25583038
>Nigga Joe has been wrong numerous times in the past
Then nobody should be using him as a source on whether or not it's gen 7. It's not confirmed either way.
>Game Freak can completely decide to not use the fucking pentagon
But IF it still uses the pentagon, do you agree that it should still be gen 6?
>>25583079
>Then nobody should be using him as a source on whether or not it's gen 7. It's not confirmed either way.
Fair enough
http://pokemon.gamespress.com/releases/1942/new-pokmon-games-announced-via-pokmon-direct
>But IF it still uses the pentagon, do you agree that it should still be gen 6?
Im conflicted on this. I honestly never understood the whole "pentagon" thing besides the fact of it having to do with compatibility. If the story, region, or anything remotely releated to Kalos isn't in these games, its Gen VII. If new Pokemon, and I mean NEW Pokemon, and not Mega evolutions or forms bullshit, are in the games that can't be traded or compatible with previous gens, then its Gen VII. You might make the argument that ORAS had new Megas and it was still Gen VI. While true, it had several mechanics/features such as mega evolution, amie, etc in it carried over from XY, basically the same engine, and you can trade trade between the games. Thats why so many people call ORAS 6.5. Im sure Sun and Moon will have plenty of new features, a new art style, and much more to define it as a new Gen
>>25582792
are the generations we've been pinning to each set of new games for so long even official?
i feel like the way they say "new generation" has a different connotation than the way we talk about gens.
>>25583597
I agree. The same way they called ORAS a "new world" or some bullshit like that when most fans would never call it that since it's a remake.
>>25583597
Not at first. It's been adapted though to define new mainline games with new regions and new Pokemon. No one really knows what to call them besides generations. It's mostly just autism and OCD. I myself have both
can someone explain this pentagon shit?
also why there suddenly seems to be confusion as to what a generation is?
before this whole no z, now s&m thing i never saw anyone discuss it.
new starters, new region, new gen.
from kanto to johto, hoenn, sinnoh, unova, and kalos. 6 gens.
>>25583079
Black and White Kyurem don't have their own pokedex entry, they are still Kyurem. They are not unique Pokemon.
>>25583689
like, for all we know BW/BW2 may be considered "gen 4" to gamefreak and xy/oras is 5. they dont have to stick to what we call their games.
from what we've learned from them for the past 5 years they dont really follow patterns anymore. thats why i hate seeing everyone fight about what the next games are going to be.
its stupid desu. instead of having expectations for mainline pokemon games, which ruin the fun later on when we actually find out what they are, we should be just taking in the info piece by piece.
im honestly open to anything they do at this point. its cool to think that they're going to do something completely different than what they've done before.
>>25583776
>desu
did not know this was a thing when u type t b h fucking shit
>>25582729
Penta=5
SM confirmed for Unova region
Personally
I'm gonna say it's a New Gen if there are also new starters, with the new area and such. However, if this is South Kalos and no new starters, it'll be like BW2. Just another part of the first story, except this time it'll have new mons in addition.
The blue pentagon has nothing to do with generation. The pentagon is actually a symbol to determine if a Pokemon is real (caught or bred in-game) as to opposed to being a hacked Pokemon. Some hacked Pokemon will not have the blue pentagon. This is how championship judges can tell if your using a fixed team.
>>25583816
where have you been senpai? desu that filter has been in place for months, imo its pretty retarded though.
>>25582729
Pentagon just means that it hasn't been transferred for previous gens. X/Y created a new timeline where Mega Evolution exists and it's likely that Sun and Moon will exist somewhere in this timeline. The pentagon just means that a Pokemon is from the current timeline.
What if sun and moon pull a black and white?
>>25583816
Halloween added a few filters, I think only 2 or 3 are still active though. Let me test:
imo desu baka cuck SJW cuckold
>>25582729
>So we all agree
I love this meme
>>25583916
Looks like only baka desu senpai are active.
>>25583916
i wish that they had kept sjw. that shit was great
>>25583858
no you fucking asshole
the pentagon is for pokemon generated in the gen 6 games
transfered mons have no pentagon becaue they were not generated on a gen 6 game
>>25583916
Funnily enough they removed filters for the only word that was actually problematic.
>>25582810
what about this then?
>>25582729
Pokémon Sun and Moon is Generation VII Pokémon games.
>>25583953
Lol how did that make him an asshole? Isn't it almost your bedtime kiddo
New starter pokemon means new gen. Case closed /thread.
>>25583816
>>25583867
>>25583916
I keked too hard at these. Thank you anons
>>25584247
>>25584237
what about >>25582810 then?
>>25584364
What about wait for a official confirmation later??
The final part of the trailer mentioning the first games from gen 1 to 6 makes me think Sun & Moon are gen 7
>>25584397
The trailer also said "it all comes together." Sun/Moon is celebration of all generations as a 20th anniversary special game. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's gen 7.
>>25582792
>It has new Pokémon and an official source called it a new gen, it's a new gen
With that logic you have several of the side games a gen ahead.
>>25584364
>2 gen 7 confirmed, 1 gen 7 maybe
>>25584425
i hope you are not one of those fag who thinks there will be an "all regions" game.
>>25582979
>Pentagon is a better factor to judge it by because it's reason for even being there is to decide if a Pokemon is from gen 6.
Or, as Gen 7 may prove, it could simply denote that it's NOT from Gens 3-5.
>>25584425
>le all regions ebic gaem
People like this still exist in 2016.
6.5 fags are fucking morons.
>>25584364
Serebii forgot to update that.
>>25584364
http://www.serebii.net/sunmoon/
>>25583711
The blue pentagon marker, which symbolizes if a Pokemon originated in Gen 6, has placeholders in the code of XY/ORAS to appear on Pokemon when traded with two more unknown games. There's a good chance that SM will be those two games, or the remaining placeholders may go unused.
Regardless, there shouldn't be any debate whether or not SM is Gen VII. GSC was also trade compatible with RBY, yet it isn't Gen 1.5.
New Gen = New Region + New Pokemon
While form reveals are normally advertised as "new Pokemon", they aren't saying it is a totally new species. It's not a new dex entry. It has an already existing base form. I hope that's not that hard to understand.
>>25584425
>The trailer also said "it all comes together."
Dear, sweet Anon, it is likely that they weren't saying that in a literal sense.
>>25584707
>I hope that's not that hard to understand.
Where do you think you are, Anon?
>>25584467
As long as there's 1 maybe then it's maybe period. The fact that Serebii isn't even sure is hilarious.
>>25584474
>>25584523
Nobody said anything about every region you retards.
>>25584516
No, because the pentagon is built for only 2 more games. They wouldn't have designed it that way if that were the case.
>>25584641
No he didn't. He's left it like since the games were announced and after the press release bullshit on purpose.
>>25584648
http://www.serebii.net
>>25584738
If it didn't mean it in a literal sense then they wouldn't have made 90% of the trailer about the history of the franchise.
>>25584707
obviuosly, the new megas didnt make oras a different generation from xy.
people dont think that, do they? that would really shake my faith in the intelligence of this board.
as for the pentagon placeholder data, basing a generation gap off of code that may not even be implemented is outrageously dumb.
>>25584866
>obviuosly, the new megas didnt make oras a different generation from xy.
And new Pokemon won't make sun/moon a different generation from xy.
>as for the pentagon placeholder data, basing a generation gap off of code that may not even be implemented is outrageously dumb.
Why? It works. The pentagon is clearly meant for recognizing gen 6 Pokemon. And it's the least arbitrary way to measure things because they already started adding shit mid-gen in ORAS that they normally didn't before.
>>25584796
Game Freak designs shit and then abandons it all the time. Besides, there's nothing in the code that says those two games "are definitely gen six." It's just code for the four games we have plus two more. For all we know, they were reserving those pentagons for a planned/presumed XZ /YZ sequels that, surprise, were abandoned.
>>25584882
a new pokemon is very different from a form change. fr/lg arent a different gen from r/s/e just because there was a different deoxys form.
>>25584882
Form changes have been in the series since gen 3.
>>25584761
Yeah, this is the place where a flame war about what new pokemon version is better before it was even officially confirmed.
IM LOOKING AT YOU, MOONMAN POSTER!
>>25584933
It isn't about whether or not they'll abandon it. It's about S/M should count as gen 6 if it uses the pentagon.
>Besides, there's nothing in the code that says those two games "are definitely gen six."
The pentagon was designed for recognizing gen 6 Pokemon. I don't need to look in the code to see this. That's flat out what they use it for.
>>25584940
>>25584984
FRLG didn't introduce compatibility breaking form changes. You can still battle Deoxys-A/D with Ruby/Sapphire. But you can't battle with any of the new ORAS megas with XY. FRLG didn't introduce new abilities or moves either.
http://www.serebii.net/omegarubyalphasapphire/compatibility.shtml
>In previous Pokémon games, games across the generation had full compatibility for battles and trades but, with Pokémon Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire introducing brand new moves, abilities, items and Mega Evolutions, things have changed and compatibility between games in the same generation has become a lot more complicated
NEW POKEMON
+
NEW REGION
+
NEW STORY
+
NEW CHARACTERS
+
NEW STARTERS
=
NEW
FUCKING
GENERATION
>>25582803
So which official source told you that the pentagons woukd be exclusive inside a single gen?
Thats right, it wasn't an official source, it was dataminers and vague theories.
>>/trash/
>>25585013
>So which official source told you that the pentagons woukd be exclusive inside a single gen?
Last I checked, the game is an official source.
>>25585001
whats the word on volt tackle then? it was introduced in emerald right? can r/s use it?
>>25585001
>That's flat out what they use it for.
Unless they use it in Gen 7 games, too. Then that argument is moot.
>>25585026
Volt Tackle is only available in Emerald, but the data for the move is still in RS/FRLG. ORAS is the first time they introduced moves that flat out don't exist in the previous game of the same generation.
>>25585047
If they wanted to use it for gen 7 games they wouldn't have designed it to work with only two more games. Unless you think there are only going to be two gen 7 games AND for some reason they'll just stop using the pentagon after that for no real reason.
>>25585018
last time i checked the next gen hasnt happened yet so saying the pentagon determines the gen is dumb. for all you know they could modify the code so that all future games have it, then there would never be a gen VII according to your definition of generation, even if we hit 20 regions and 2000 pokemon.
it would just be gen 6.5.1 then 6.5.2 and 6.5.9 6.6.1 forever and ever.
the pentagon will be featured in all future games.
anyone that thinks it's just a gen 6 thing is stupid desu
>>25583953
You obviously don't know your shit.
>>25585079
>for all you know they could modify the code so that all future games have it
They can't. They don't patch the games for things like this and they explicitly designed it to work with only 2 games.
>>25585092
A feature LIKE the pentagon might be in all future games, but the same pentagon? No. Like I've said multiple times already, they wouldn't have made it work with only two more games if that were the case.
What if they have the pentagon but Pokemon transferred from XY/ORAS don't anymore?
>>25585098
Everything he said is correct. I think the one who doesn't know his shit is you
>>25585078
>Unless you think there are only going to be two gen 7 games
You never know. TGF breaks tradition all the time. And if not, hey, Crystal was GBC-only; the third 7th gen game could be next-gen handheld only, and the pentagon was only intended for 3DS-platform games.
I'd say the most likely scenario is that they simply won't use the pentagon. If they do, though, that's not going to make it "not gen 7." It's just going to be "GF being inconsistent and/or fucking up," which is also a likely scenario."
>>25585006
No.
>>25585113
>They don't patch the games for things like this
they also dont introduce new incompatible moves and forms in the middle of a generation...until they did.
>>25585244
Then what is a new gen?
What if the pentagon represents Pokemon originating from the 3DS era of games instead of specifically Gen 6?
>>25585126
You obviously don't know your shit either. asswipe.
>>25585251
And they also won't make new Pokemon in the middle of a generation...until they do with Sun/Moon.
So we're on the same page then?
>>25585298
The page being "GF breaks tradition and defies prediction all the time and will continue to do so?" Sure!
>>25585018
As I said, the only thing you have to work with is datamining and half-assed assumptions, neither of which are proof.
Datamined stuff is highly unreliable, as B2/W2 have proven, so the entire idea is shaky at best, and a complete joke at worst.
>>25585113
You do realise that if they don't trade backwards, they can add anything at all to new games without needing to patch shit, right?
>>25585298
if they only added magearna/perfect zygarde and the games are still in kalos then i will say its gen 6.5
until they announce anything i refuse to predict.
but if theres a new regional dex with new starters and a bunch of new mons then its a new generation. that the definition of gen that i and everyone ive spoken to has used for the entire history of the games since gen 2
>>25585352
Yup. So all those gen 7 fags will get btfo
>>25585375
Datamines aren't unreliable. I have no idea what you're talking about with BW2.
>>25585412
Bank is still a factor. And Bank goes two ways.
>>25585483
First of all, dataminers found a metric shitton of unused assets in B2/W2, including but not limited to movie props and key items. And they haven't been the only games with leftover data, D/P had plenty as well.
As for Bank, it is already confirmed to be getting an update, and is likewise confirmed NOT to work with Gen 1 to Gen 6 transferral, which heavily implies that bank will be segregated based on generation and you can only move Pokes one way. Of course the segregation part is an educated guess more than something confirmed, but it is a hell of a lot more likely than the 6.5 delusions.
>>25585483
>So all those gen 7 fags will get btfo
This seals it--you're less about discussing speculation, and more about insisting that your speculation is indeed fact, and you're unwilling to entertain equally (or greater) plausible speculation. Further, you feel the need to separate yourself from those who don't buy your speculation wholesale on an intellectual (and/or "fag") level. We've got your number, bud. You're not worth "discussing" with any longer.
>>25585520
>First of all, dataminers found a metric shitton of unused assets in B2/W2, including but not limited to movie props and key items. And they haven't been the only games with leftover data, D/P had plenty as well.
>It isn't about whether or not they'll abandon it. It's about S/M should count as gen 6 if it uses the pentagon.
>As for Bank, it is already confirmed to be getting an update, and is likewise confirmed NOT to work with Gen 1 to Gen 6 transferral
This isn't confirmed as S/M might be gen 6.
>which heavily implies that bank will be segregated based on generation
Nothing is implied. You're just reading what you want to see. If I wanted to I could interpret as S/M mons being transferable to XY because they didn't specify that they couldn't, but they DID specify than gen 1 mons couldn't be "directly" moved to XY.
>>25585569
You were the one that was on the same page as me! Blame yourself! ;)
>>25585617
Ever hear of occams razor? Its basically the idea of not having to do dumbfuck mental gymnastics to prove yourself right.
Or in short, the most likely option is usually the correct one. Now with that in mind, let me ask you, what is more likely?
A) Gen 1 can't transfer to X/Y/OR/AS because they will go to Sun/Moon and then trade backwards, being the most incredibly convoluted method of transferral to date, or
B) Gen 1 can transfer to Gen 7, and they can't be sent to Gen 6.
Heres your litmus test, fail and be a confirmed retard.
>>25585706
A. It's not convoluted because shit like the Dream Radar has to do the same fucking thing if you want the Pokemon to end up in BW. And the website says you can't "DIRECTLY" send to XYORAS. Occam's razor tell's me they wouldn't used the word "directly" if there was an indirect method of transferal.
>>25585006
>NEW STARTERS
LOLNO FAG, THERES NOT GOING TO BE ANY.
>>25582979
>ORAS... takes place in a different region
Different region != new region.
>The consequence of megas in ORAS that aren't in XY's data is literally no different from making new Pokemon that isn't in XY's data.
This is true, and if we only got one or two Pokemon (like Magearna) then SM would be gen 6.
But given there is what looks like a new regional bird, there will almost certainly be new starters. Which in turn suggests a full roster of new Pokemon. Which means gen7.
>>25585762
The dream radar wasn't used for transferring pokes though, and as far as I remember had pokemon that were already available in B/W, barring legendaries. The comparison is wrong on all levels.
As for the word "directly" - while there is a slim chance they meant it that way, it is far more likely that it is merely a poor choice of words. Lord knows they use plenty of ambiguous langauge for all sorts of things, which is where a bunch of the fights here originate from. Remember how they called new megas new pokemon, despite having no dex entries? And forms before that? Ambiguous language is their mother tongue.
>>25583931
baka
>>25585884
>Different region != new region.
Original post said different region.
>But given there is what looks like a new regional bird, there will almost certainly be new starters. Which in turn suggests a full roster of new Pokemon. Which means gen7.
Not necessarily.
>>25585932
>The dream radar wasn't used for transferring pokes though
Yes it is. You can transfer legendaries and stuff through it. The comparison isn't wrong at all. What we know about bank is that it's two way. The website doesn't say we can't send gen 1 Pokemon indirectly to XY. You're forcing this Occam's razor bullshit yet you're the one making more assumptions. Funny.
>>25585078
It may be the last main games on the 3DS, and a new Gen on a new console will have a new symbol with no direct compatibility with XY/ORAS or SM
>>25585991
No, transferring means (in this context) from gen to gen, like gen 5 to gen 6. Radar gave us the equivalent of event pokes, a 1-off that we could send to our games, much like most other spinoff tie-ins (manaphy for example.) There is no using dream radar to take data out of one game and put it in another. Thats what bank and the pal park etc were for.
As for your assertion that "directly" means X/Y are included indirectly, how about you explain why X/Y aren't included directly? Because that would make the most sense. And it isn't as though they can't use bank to update the stats etc to be compatible, because they clearly have to before the migration to Sun/Moon anyway.
So support your assertion - why would they use such a convoluted method when they could quite literally do it easier and sooner? Pretty sure occams razor doesn't support those mental gymnastics buddy.
>>25585098
I can make the most obvious bad hack for Gen 6 and it'll have the pentagon. A totally legit Pokemon from Gen 3/4/5 will never have the pentagon. The pentagon is determined by game origin. Don't be retarded.
>>25586198
>implying Gamefreak intended for people to hack the pentagons onto pokes
>implying they weren't trying to clean up all the hacked shit from the previous gens
The existence of the pentagons has been crystal clear to us since we first found out they were excluded from older pokes. This isn't rocket science.
>>25585706
The Bank update is likely to simply only to get it to recognize RBY and SM, just like it was with ORAS. It doesn't seem likely they will add the actual conversion code in the Bank update. Gen I mons will likely be sent to the transfer box(just like with Gen 5) and can only be retrieved by SM. When sent to SM, they will get the data converted. Once converted, they can be put back in Bank and then to XY/ORAS.
>>25586236
You dot just "hack" on the pentagon. If you set the game origin to XY/ORAS/other two to ANY existing Pokemon from any Gen, hacked or not, it'll have the pentagon. If you set the game origin of an XY/ORAS/other two to an old game, it won't have the pentagon.
I'm not quite sure how you think the pentagon is purely a legitimacy test. True official tournaments an stuff requires the pentagon assuming Gen 6 would get hacked, but it doesn't change the fact that previous Generation mons were never intended to the the pentagon. It doesn't mean they're saying our legit previous gen mons are hacks.
Let's just say we're both right, in all honesty. While it was originally intended to be a hack test before Gen 6 hacks were a thing , it is also a Gen 6/3DS game marker.
>>25582729
Related question:
How do I change said values? I've tried figuring it out with a .pk6 in a hex editor, but no avail.
