It makes your moves less likely to hit meaning my mons live longer allowing me to set up more strategies without them dying.
>BUT BUT MUH RNG
GF made counters for it like any move that never misses for example, any move that phases(forces a switch on foe) and any move that screws with stat changes like Haze and Mist. Not to mention Psych Up is a serious counter for double team spam because now both mons will be hard as fuck to hit allowing you set up subs like crazy and get up attack and defense boost.
Because it's fucking stupid. The entire point is to battle and who can do that if you can't actually hit you opponent. No one is going to waste a slot on always-hit moves just so people like you can be faggots with Double Team and Minimize.
>>25563362
It's not a fun mechanic, and you defending it shows just how unintelligent you are.
>>25563376
But the easiest way to win is to never get hit at all while making sure if your mons do get hit it wont do jackshit to them at all. You smogonfags are just stupid apes that want your hyper offense metagame with zero strategy at all.
It's not fun to play against and causes entire matches to become coinflips. Luck is ok if it can be managed, played against, or are generally just fun (Scald burns, critical hits, paralysis) but with Double Team being almost impossible to stop once it gets set up just results in sacky unfun luck overall.
>>25563410
>Double Team is strategy
>>25563578
Just use never miss moves or a move that nerfs the evasion spam cmon man be adapatable, you smogonfags are just lazy retards that dont want your metagame to be unpredictable.
>>25563410
>Wanting games to literally turn into Struggle-fests because no one can hit anyone else
>>25563362
Is this the thread for 4chan cup?
>>25563602
>just waste a move slot and ALWAYS pack these highly sub-optimal low BST always hit moves on the off chance someone decides to be a faggot with evasion
You are retarded.
>>25563632
low BP*
>>25563362
>>25563410
>winning actually means this much to this guy
I can only imagine you must be one hell of a loser irl
>>25563728
>smogonfag
>talking shit about being all about winning
Your entire spergbase is made of elitist faggots using teams made for winning.
>>25563743
When did I say I was from Smogon?
I hate Smogon too I just think you are equally cancerous.
Both of you would turn battling into a chore just for the sake of a win.
So why arent the top players in the world spamming minimize and double team in a format where it's allowed?
>>25563743
>using teams made for winning
No fucking shit. Who's going run something that causes them to lose?
>>25563829
Not that guy but holy fuck man. There are over 700 of these bastards and you're just going to pick from a pool of 20?
>>25563911
>and you're just going to pick from a pool of 20?
I'm going to pick from a pool that increases my chance of winning the most.
>>25563911
You only pick from the smaller pool if your playing OU. You can play any tier and enjoy pretty much every pokemon, which is what I prefer. Its nice to use a pokemon and know its not gonna get its shit stomped immediately cause its playing in a tier of mons like it.
>>25563931
Again, who would use something that's just going to die immediately? Why waste your time with it just because you don't want to use something good/competitve/top tier?
>>25563944
Well what if I want to choose my favorite pokemon because I actually want to enjoy the game how it was intended and they are all UU except for one that happens to be OU.
That's not exactly fair.
>>25563376
But if double team became the meta those attacks would become the meta as well.
While I agree it silly, its just about as silly as what we have now.
>>25563829
Exactly my point so stop crying about double team spam.
How to win any battle.
Use DT two times
Use a sub
Set up boost moves
After 4 turns if your opponent has yet to hit you they are fucked for the rest of the game.
>>25563953
UU is smogonfag talk for POKEMON IM TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT TO USE.
>>25563978
>doesn't realise I'm complaining about Smogon's bullshit tier system
>insulting people who agree with him
You really need to go to bed kid.
>>25563972
And that's absolutely moronic. What fun is a one-sided battle like that?
>>25563953
No, but then again that only applies if your playing on smogon. You can play however you want anywhere else buddy. I use smogon to help every so often but for the most part the mons I use are all over the place. I usually get destroyed by my friend who has a mega gallade, but I still have my fun.
Besides there really isint a "right way" to play the game. The only right way would be as long as your having fun playing it.
>>25563953
Pokemonshowdown is mainly a COMPETITIVE battle simulator. Since it's competitive, people are going to play to win. That's just how it is.
That being said, there is a tier that allows you to pick any and everything, but just like on cart, don't expect to win much if you use weak-ish pokemon.
>>25563978
They give strategies for every pokemon in UU, are you retarded?
To the people in this thread rallying against evasion, why is evasion not okay yet forcing someone to have rapid spin or defog for entry hazards is? All of the arguments I'm seeing against evasion work against hazards as well. There are also much more ways to counter evasion then there are entry hazards, which only has two. Nobody would ever use rapid spin for any reason at all outside of that shit.
>>25563944
This
I gave up on OU already, UU and below it are enjoyable
>>25565217
Stealth rock doesn't make you miss
>>25563376
I'm for full offense in battle
That being said, you're probably a stallfag/paralysisfag/sleepfag, so know that your faggottery is in no way better than evasion spamming
>>25563578
Paralysis is literally the exact same as evasion, you huge faggot
Explain how getting 50% chances to fail your move is "more fun" than evasion?
>>25565294
>set up my lilligant with quiver dance
>sleep the entire team
I am a bad boy
>>25563362
keep crying bro
>>25565315
My team has two high attack Extreme Speed mon, so I fear you not
>>25563362
God I hate brave birds
>>25565313
Paralysis can be more globakky stopped you huge baby.
>>25563602
>Smogon
>be adaptable
Good look breaking someone's subs with a nevermiss move.
>>25565931
Nice meme, mind if I upvote?
I think you'd like Citizen snips, op c:
>>25563362
because always-hit moves are so fucking weak that they don't even do much against a mon that double teamed and then oneshots you
Haze Quagsire would become the new Landorus-T. Every single team would run it.
>>25565276
But it is fairly overcentralizing.
Mons that are doubly weak to it have to have a ridiculously good niche such as Talonflame or Charizard Y.
Double weakness to common types such as ice, ground, fire, and fighting aren't really important, even to a lot of bulky walls. A double weakness to rock is basically a death sentence.
>>25563362
Smogon hates double team because it shows something they don't want to admit. Pokemon isn't fair or competitive. The better player doesn't always win. Whether it's a scald burn, stone edge miss or the constant 6.25% chance to critical, the game is a roll of the dice every fucking turn. The game is fun as fuck but trying to make it into an e-sport is retarded.
>>25564993
>They give strategies for every pokemon in UU, are you retarded?
You're on /vp/. Don't expect much from pokefuckers.
>>25566554
>Smogon hates double team because it shows something they don't want to admit. Pokemon isn't fair or competitive.
They know this, you dipshit. That's why they make so many efforts to balance it to make it--and this is important and in their terms--as player skill based as possible without going overboard. They know that random elements are always present, but when the game turns into relying on those random elements to win instead of relying on skill, it isn't fun anymore.
By the way, Nintendo turns this into an e-sport moreso with VGC.
>>25563376
Yes, you only need to waste a slot on rapid spin or defog because some faggot put out webs and sneaky pebbles.
There are plenty of counters for evasion.
>opponent uses double team/minimize
>use roar/whirlwind/no guard/lock-on/ditto
W O W
>>25566637
>webs and rocks
2 moves counter them competely
>Evasion
always hit moves: not viable, possibly wrong typing
OHKO moves: >30%
phazing: >Ingrain, free hit
clear Smog: >Steel typesc
No guard: 3 fully evolved Mons (includes M-Pidgeot) and Doublade, easily counterable with right teambuilding
Haze: only good answer
Is there anything I forgot?
If they made more 100% hit moves with different types it would be ok
>>25566627
They know it, the don't accept it. Attempting to balance pokemon is asinine. They can reduce random effects all they like, meanwhile GameFreak adds a move like Scald to the next gen. 70 Base Power Fairy move, 30% chance to sleep.
>>25566637
Sticky webs/Stealth rocks don't automatically win games, especially in the case of the former. Sticky webs only affect grounded pokemon, and the pokemon that actually care about their speed stat in OU that are grounded are few.
Evasion, however, is a different story. Though there are certain counters for evasion, they are terrible. Swift is a bad move with low power. There aren't strong users of aura sphere. Stomp only works on minimize.
Even then, you're saying to keep these terrible moves on pokemon, wasting a moveslot. This automatically puts more power in the hands of the players that don't use evasion tactics, since they have less to worry about. But your opponent HAS to worry about evasion, just in case somebody decides to use it.
>>25566657
>roar/whirlwind
Though there are some strong phasers, (Heatran and Skarmory), not every team composition is the same. Hyper offense is a thing.
>no guard
Terrible distribution.
>Lock-on
lol
Read above.
>Ditto
Incredibly niche pokemon with only 5 pp per move.
>>25566733
Base power and viability matters as well.
>>25566737
>Attempting to balance pokemon is asinine.
It's something they've been doing for a while, and quite extensively.
>They can reduce random effects all they like, meanwhile GameFreak adds a move like Scald to the next gen. 70 Base Power Fairy move, 30% chance to sleep.
Scald is a move with mixed reception, but is overall fine in the community. They only care about random chance when it becomes over-centralizing.
Also, sleep clause.
>>25563362
Moves that counter evasion either usually have pitifully low power and are a waste of a moveslot again any team that doesn't rely on evasion.
If you build your team around countering evasion, then you automatically lose to any team that doesn't use evasion.
>>25566757
>It's something they've been doing for a while, and quite extensively.
Yes, I've been playing their format since 4th gen. It's a joke how salty they get when one of their tournaments is decided by hax.
>They only care about random chance when it becomes over-centralizing. Also, sleep clause.
Yes, scald isn't going away and more moves like it will be released. Moves that aren't game-breaking but introduce more luck into the game. As for sleep clause, how does Relic Song work on PS then? Been awhile.
>>25566925
>It's a joke how salty they get when one of their tournaments is decided by hax.
Then that's a userbase problem more than anything. Also, that rarely happens.
>Yes, scald isn't going away and more moves like it will be released. Moves that aren't game-breaking but introduce more luck into the game.
I know. I'm saying they're fine with this.
Relic Song still follows sleep clause rules.
>>25566955
>I know. I'm saying they're fine with this.
I haven't been to their forums for a while and don't plan to return, so I'll take your word for it. The people on their ladder however take pokes very seriously and are saltier than Dead Sea because of it.
>Be me
>Be on anything goes
>Have team of mega rayquazaa
>Spam double team
>then swords dance
>then spam aerial ace
>win everytime.
>>25563578
Matches are already a coinflip. How often have you lost a whole battle because of Stone Edge missing? Scald burning you? Critical hit? Being fully Paralyzed? Oftentimes the whole battle can change because of one thing. For instance, if you score a critical hit on my Blissey, now I don't have an answer to your Manectric anymore, and Manectric proceeds to rips holes in my team. See? Despite what smogon wants to believe, it really is a luck based game. Sure there's some skill, but luck will always be a deciding factor at least 1/3 of the time.
I consider this a good thing, though. If it were all skill and no luck it might as well be chess but with Japanese battle monsters, and chess is boring as hell to me. I like being able to randomly win against someone much better, or randomly lose against a newbie. Adds a layer of thrill to battling, adds an element of the unexpected that stuff like chess doesn't easily replicate.
>>25568622
Evasion or Double Team spam would be fine if they made this one simple change: No-miss moves' damage get multiplied by the opponent's evasion boost. So if they Minimized, Aura Sphere BP gets doubled. hope this makes sense. If they get to +6 evasion, then Shock Wave gets to 360 BP.
This way, you only need 1 or 2 slots devoted to No-miss moves. Same as countering entry hazards
>>25568747
Multiplying BP is too much but gaining a small bonus is a good idea
>>25563362
Verlis please go
