How do we buff poison and bug?
How do we nerf fairy and steel?
Steel has been nerfed enough faggot
wood type?
Remove Fairy's Bug resistance helps two of those already.
Make Poison SE vs Water. This further nerfs Fairy by making Poison offense more prevalent.
>>25530412
>Make Poison SE vs Water
That's retarded.
>>25530380
poison is already on the strong half of the types
The more important question is how do we buff ice types defensively
>>25530423
t. Masuda
>>25530566
What is this t. Meme
>>25530380
Bug is already good. Scissor, mega scissor, heracross, mega heracross, megs pinsir, garantula
>>25530401
>12 resistances and an immunity
>loses two resistances
>gains advantage over the new type, which it resist
>Steelfags often bitch about it losing those two resistancesI'm not saying you are but a lot of Steel fans do
>STEEL DOESN'T NEED NERFED IT NEEDS BUFFED
>>25530566
No it seriously is retarded, do you realise how many water types there are and how they're relied/built around their for bulk
I'd be up for giving poison types a move thats super effective against water - like freeze-dry - provided it was physical and not very common
what if we delete all the types
>>25530644
well thats what I'm saying steel is fine as it is, perhaps remove its super effectiveness over ice?
>>25530644
Why does every idiot not see that steel resisting like fucking everything is OP?
Steel takes 50% damage from more types than any other typing, how the fuck is that fair
>>25530380
make bug super-effective against fairy
>>25530652
What if ice is super effective against water but only if the ice move is used by an ice type. That way, ice is buffed as a type but the wide spread of ice beam won't be affected by it much
>>25530619
sticky web
quiver dance
yeah, bug is fine
>>25530380
Fairy needs to loose some of it's resistances.
Poison should be super effective against water (I know it's sort of a meme, but whatever), and bug just needs more types not to resist it.
I think steel should be nerfed by making dragon super effective against it.
>>25530695
Nah, if ice is to be buffed offensively it should be against fire - and it should be done with a move, not an actual type change
>>25530380
Poison is good as is since its main focus is as a defensive type. Immunity to Toxic is a great tradeoff for a Ground and Psychic weakness when Air Balloon and Levitate exists and Psychic isn't a very relevant offensive type anymore. If anything it's more suffering to be a Grass or slow defensive Ice mon.
Bug needs to lose the offensive resistance to Fairy and needs Stealth Rock to be nerfed or at least less prevalent to really be decent. Defensively Talonflame pretty much fucks the whole type over unfortunately so there's not much that can be done about that.
Fairy just needs more Steel and Poison offensive presence to be nerfed enough, and Steel already got a big nerf losing the Ghost and Dark resistance.
>>25530703
>dragon super effective against steel
get the fuck out dragonfag
>>25530703
>>25530412
Poison disperses in water idiots. If anything, water should be SE against poison
>>25530723
ice types should get a water type move that changes them to water type or adds water to their typing for one turn
>>25530380
Why buff poison? It's a good enough type, it's just that it only gets really shit Pokemon.
Just give them better pokemon. No need to actually change how the typing works.
Fairy has good typing but it has medicore pokemon. Just do the opposite with bug and poison.
>>25530380
We don't. Not all types need to be equal.
>>25530703
There would be almost nothing to stop dragons once they set up a dragon dance
poison type move that cancels out the opponent's resistances, like gastro acid
I can tell you're a Poison type for posting Pepe
Poison and Bug are far from needing to be buffed, especially after Gen V introduced so many tools and new Bugs to abuse them tools while Poison is good against one of the most OP types
No, you know what needs fucking buffed? Grass and Ice for being the literal laughingstocks of Pokemon
#MakeIceGreatAgain
>>25530703
>I think steel should be nerfed by buffing dragon
>>25530804
why does normal have one weakness but nothing is weak against it? everything should be hit neutrally by normal types except maybe steel. and ghost of course
>>25530703
>buffing dragon
Have you lost your fucking mind? The type so broken they had make NEW FUCKING TYPE TO BALANCE IT.
>>25530652
>water have only two weakness
>four resistances, two of them are against common offensive type
>super effective against three of the most common offensive type
>is resisted only by dragon,itself and grass
>most of them can learn ice type move negating two of those resistance
It's one of the best type in the game, gaining one weakness wouldn't change a lot of thing.
>>25530815
Lose weakness to fighting, gain resistance to flying, water and ground
>>25530836
Why do most fairies have such low bst compared to dragons?
>>25530845
Yh it would as water is fine with just two weaknesses.
>>25530741
It's not that I'm a dragonfag, I just think . Plus, it makes sense for dragon to be able to destroy metal structures.
>>25530748
True, but I still think it makes sense (poisoning water supplies, drinks, etc.). Plus, I think water needs a nerf.
Ice needs to be buffed by having resistances against Normal, Flying, and Water.
>>25530905
For some reason I forgot to type the rest of that first part. Man, I'm not coming off great. Basically, with the fact that dragon type is not very offensive and with fairies existing, dragon could use a buff.
>>25530905
Water doesnt need a nerf its perfectly fine the way it is. Ice doesnt need a buff its supposed to be shit because Ice IRL is fragile.
>>25530701
Yeah should definitely nerf those moves
>>25530695
That's retarded, water melts ice, ice doesn't freeze water.
>>25530945
>ice doesn't freeze water
Steel should be weak to water since there are metals that rust from contact with water.
>>25530781
t. Dragonbabby
>>25530961
Have you ever put an ice cube in a cup of water anon?
The water doesn't freeze you know.
>>25530863
>>25530937
>>25530945
Masuda please go, water is one of the best type in the game and nerfing it wouldn't be a bad thing.
Just fairy's resistance to bug should be the only change in that mess. What makes fairy OP is the how little prevalence steel and poison attacks are. When I do random battles fairy type is usually the biggest problem because there aren't that many poison or steel attacks used for coverage.
>>25530937
>>25530945
>These uneducated stupid as shit opinions are reasons why ice shouldn't be buffed
Sometimes I don't know if gamefreak or the fans are worse.
>>25530835
Normal is kind of a non-elemental, non-super powered type. It's simple and all-around neutral in most circumstances except for those with 'rock hard defense' or shit that phases through it
>>25530855
Most were retconned into being Fairies. Shit like Aromatisse I have no answer for you
It's funny that even with those low BST people continue to tout them as being broken, and they kind of are. Clefable has never been better, Azumarill and Mawile are powerhouses, Gardevoir packs a punch too
>>25530961
Freezing is when kinetic energy moves from an area of high concentration to low contration that is why if the air is cold you will eventually start to get cold because the air is conducting the heat of the surface of your skin away. Now water has more kinetic energy than ice but ice simply cannot conduct all the energy away resulting in it becoming the area of high concentration and thus water.
That feeling you call cold is the heat from your fingers being absorbed into the cold object. Where as hotness is when you absorb too much kinetic energy that is starts to shut down your body functions, our skin is equipped with censors to let our retarded asses know not to stick in our hands in fire or wander into a desert and dehydrate.
>>25530961
>he thinks ice freezes water
Look at this retard.
>>25530923
>fact that dragon type is not very offensive and with fairies existing, dragon could use a buff.
Dragons were very offensive. They've been knownamed to sweep through teams single handedly. For generations. Like maybe since gen 1 or gen 2. All the way til now.
The entire reason fairy was introduced, not with just dragon resistance but full on immunity, was because dragons were too powerful.
>>25530961
Go put ice in water and see what happens
>>25530989
Have you ever put a cup of water in a freezer anon?
The ice doesn't melt you know.
>>25530989
Ice doesn't just encompass the element of ice, it also encompasses snowy weather and the cold in general. If it's below freezing, which ice types can easily generate with their own abilities, then the water freezes.
>>25531018
You retard, the freezer isn't a block of ice.
>>25531018
Thats due to the cold air you fucking retard.
Make a Poison move that makes Steel weak to Poison for 2-5 turns.
>>25531034
Neither are ice type pokemon
>>25531035
And icy wind is an ice move
Guys, I don't think giving Ice another thing to be Super Effective against is going to help it. Water really should be neutral to Ice and not resist it, yes, but let's give Ice some resistances instead so we don't get our heads caught up our own asses
I vote Flying
>>25531030
No its based on literally ice solid water and not cold otherwise it could rape fire types by conducting the heat away from their attacks.
>>25530945
>>25530989
Ice type stands for cold, faggot
Not just pieces of ice
>>25531004
>Clefable has never been better, Azumarill and Mawile
Why is clefable so good? I can understand the other two because they have ridiculously high stats after their abilities cone into play
>>25531061
That's not how it works, monkey
A fire chase cold away, cold do not extinguish a fire
>>25531058
Flying and water, and lose it's weakness to fighting.
>>25531070
No Ice is just solid water, cold is the absence of heat.
>>25531081
>Magic Guard and Oblivious
>Dat Movepool
>Good, well-rounded stats
>Good typing
Clefable got just the right amount of tools to work with compared to prior Gens
>>25531003
Sometimes I swear people only want certain things in pokemon to stay shit, just to spite people who like playing competitively. I dont even play much online, I just want to see Ice types kind of usable, but everyone is so ass blasted by the idea.
>>25531009
The cold will make water freeze and while yes there is a lot of science behind it, I dont think GF goes to any extremes with science to explain their type charts.
Ice types can create blizzards and shoot ice beams, im pretty sure it would be easy enough to say they could probably freeze water with ease.
Besides as it was said by most anons, Water has 2 weakness and is pretty much the best type. Im sure it could afford to get knocked down a peg or two.
>>25531058
That being said this guy has the right idea with ice. Ice doesn't need anything else to be super against, it needs resistances. it needs to be able to switch into attacks and take them for not very effective, or scare opponents out due to their typing. Making Ice Super effect more pokemon would still make water types better, since they all get Ice moves. Plus Freeze-Dry would become kinda pointless as a special move.
>>25531058
Agreed. Ice is already very nice offensively speaking, but when every water type can learn ice beam there's no point using an ice type. It's needs resistance to normal, flying, and water. Hell, I think it's weakness to steel should be gotten rid of.
>>25531092
It depends on how cold it is anon, any flame you make in Antartica is gonna go out after a couple of hours. Not to mention most ice type pokemon have temperatures that could LIQUIFY THE AIR ITSELF. If we applied some logic an ice type just has to touch you then watch as all the heat in you body conducts into it but because the ice type is so fucking cold this doesnt jackshit to it all meanwhile your body completely freezes solid effectively killing you.
>>25531010
>>25531009
So you're telling me that water freezes ice and not the other way around?
>>25530652
>So many water types are built for bulk, giving them a weakness would be stupid!
Well gee fucking wee, it's a good thing that's never happened before and pokemon that are supposed to be bulky are never given a shit typing right?
Ice doesn't need to be buffed defensively. It is an offensive type and great at it. The problem is that GF insists on making ice types slow and bulky when that clearly doesn't work for them
>>25531118
Water weaknesses are based on the chemical retard not the lifeforms
Grass-Plants absorb water
Electric-Water conducts electricity better than air.
So Poison is a stupid weakness.
>>25531138
No water melts ice.
>>25530525
Resist Ground and Dragon, which it already resists anyway. Even if it doesn't make that much sense lore-wise or whatever, it makes a lot more sense balance-wise.
Resisting EQ and Dragons ought to give it a great buff.
>>25531197
Kind of like fire?
So then that means that water should be SE vs ice just like fire is SE vs ice since they both melt it
>>25530685
steel was designed from the ground up to be a 10/10 defensive type you mongoloid, the trade-off is that it doesn't have a lot of strong offensive presence, as in there aren't a lot of strong Steel-type moves. iirc Iron Tail is the most powerful attack that isn't a signature move or has variable power (like Gyro Ball or Heavy Slam) and it has just 100 BP for its 75 Acc.
>>25531172
I think its more general thing though bud. Besides water being a good conducter really doesn't do much to the water, but the things that live in it. And yeah everything on earth drinks water in some form or shape, but you could technically drown plants with too much so by that logic, grass should be weak to water as well.
Not saying i dont understand what ya mean buddy, but Poison being super effective against water, isint really the craziest thing i've ever heard.
>>25531172
>Electric-Water conducts electricity better than air
Water by itself is a very poor conductor of electricity.
>>25531306
Yeah but that's only pure water and you don't see that too often
>>25531274
>wasn't designed initially
He and everyone else knows this.
Now we have an assload of great steel offensive mons and a bunch of treats given to most of them by GF. Scizor, Metagross, Bisharp, Jirachi, Lucario, Heatran, etc. Steel needs to be nerfed, it's gotten more gains than any other type over the past few years and the dark/ghost shit won't cut it.
Grass should have immunity or resistance to fairy.
Poison and dark should mutually resist each other. Poison should be super effective against water, but not resist it.
Bug should be super effective against bug. Fairy loses the bug resist. Bug and fighting are super effective against each other.
Ice gains an ground resist and loses the steel weakness.
>>25531282
Toxins dont do shit to the CHEMICAL COMPOUND WATER.
Grass is the type that needs to be buffed.
A billion weaknesses and everything and their mother resists grass.
Like hell, 90% of the pokemon in PU and NU are goddamn grass types.
>>25531093
I weakness to fighting is fine. Martial artists smash ice for practice, that's fine. Resistance to water and flying makes sense
>>25531446
>Bug and fighting are super effective against each other
No, fighting has too many things it's super effective against and bug being good against fighting makes no sense
>>25531050
fuck off with the 2-5 turns shit
Get bug types on battles like they did with Azumarill that was a useless Pokémon until Gen VI
>>25530412
This desu
>>25531216
Good thinking, quality post, keep up the good work.
>>25531467
I dont think your getting what im saying buddy. Its the general idea, not the science that GF would probably use.
Poison contaminates the water. Thats what you base the weakness off of.
If we really wanted to, any type would be weak to any other type.
Water is weak to grass? Well what kind of water? Is it still room temprature water? Is it boiling water, freezing water? Is the water high pressure? Considering we can bump waters pressure up high enough to cut steel, I can guarantee you water should always beat grass, by simply cutting them in half.
Water beats fire? How big a fire are we talking about? You need a certain volume of water to put out a certain amount of burning fire? Hell you need a decent amount of heat to melt ice, so we gotta debate Fire being strong against Ice now.
Fact is you never think of this kind of stuff, cause GF doesnt really care for overcomplicating it. Its just sort of "hey, plants absorb water, that makes sense."
The only time you need to really dive deep into the concept is on types like Dark, whose meaning is a touch more shaky. Why is fighting good against dark? Lot of people give the analogy of fighters or heros always beat injustice or dirty players. But that sort of implies fighting types are always good guys? Would make more sense to make Hero type, or Light type if you were going by that logic.
Thats what I mean by type choices being a general thing. Water type isint about the compound water or what lives in water...its kinda both. Its not really written in stone anywhere, just a broad concept of everything that often revolves around water, which is why so many water starters are aquatic animal themed.
>>25530703
Electric can be SE on steel, fuck off with your dragon
It makes perfect sense for water types to be weak to poison because water types are fishe and fishe are well-known to have permissive skin. Toxins can just float right the fuck into their bodies since living in water REQUIRES being osmotic as heck.
>but water itself isn't hurt by poison
Great. Give Ditto an immunity.
>>25531636
But toxins again do nothing to disturb the molecules of water itself so the weakness is absurd.
>>25530380
There needs to be better bug Pokemon.
Bugs also need better type matchups, they are weak to many things, and don't hurt enough things.
As a huge poison lover, I actually think it's fine as is. It's more of a defensive / status type. There are tons of great (not necessarily OU material) Pokemon. And the poison attack moves are good. Fairy helped make it better.
To nerf fairy? Well moonblast or whatever should be nerfed. Fairy also absolutely needs to be weak to 1 more type, probably fire, or maybe bug.
Steel needs more weakness', or less resistances. It's literally a better version of rock type, rock is better offensive, but all rock types are slow as shit and rock moves all have bad accuracy. Do that, and it would help to not be grossly overpowered as arguably the best type out there.
AND WHAT THE FUCK ABOUT ICE? Ice type pokemon suck. Water type Pokemon are to Ice types, and Steel is to Rock. Water types are basically just better versions of Ice Pokemon. Water should be weak to Poison and Ice. Ice should resist more then just itself.
>poison gets a freeze dry derivative super effective against water "Pollution Wave" or some shit
>Ice now resists flying, water and ground, loses a weakness to rock or steel. Gets a freeze dry derivative thats super effective against fire
Bug is fine, sticky web is the new stealth rocks bitch
Steel is fine, although could lose super effective against ice
Fairy is fine, although could lose bug resist
Also better pokemons
>>25531710
>living in water REQUIRES being osmotic as heck.
No it doesn't. Animals living in salt water have to prevent water leaving their bodies, and animals living in fresh water have to prevent too much water getting into their cells. What ass are you pulling your knowledge from.
>>25531892
Did you just take a post that spelled fish with an e as a serious post? Are you autistic?
>>25531172
Water is easy to pollute and contaminant, anon. You guys seem to think the Poison-type is only about venom and toxins, but its also about pollution( Sludge Bomb, Gunk Shot, Smog, etc)
>>25530380
>Fairy is now weak against dark but still hits dark SE
>If a poison pokemon use toxic they acelerate the badly poison efect
>Steel is now weak against Electric
>>25532024
>Fairy is now weak against dark but still hits dark SE
we really need 2 types that interact like this. i was thinking more along the lines of water and electric
>>25531997
Pollution doesnt do a single bad thing to the chemical compound retard.
>>25530380
Why the hell do all these poison fags want to deal SE damage against bulky water types? Are there even any bulky water types around anymore? Just stick to killing grass and fairy types
>>25531386
And none of them ever use their Steel typing offensively unless they have to check Fairies.
Most of them also have to deal with Fire and Ground moves, which are extremely fucking common.
No one that wants a Steel nerf has ever played competitively.
>>25532265
>Are there even any bulky water types around anymore
if you play showdown:
OU only has Rotom-W and Slowbro (and its mega)
UU has suicune, vaporeon, tentacruel, and milotic
>>25530380
> buff poison and bug
Yes
> Nerf Fairy
Yes
> and Steel
HELL NO
>>25532265
>Blasoise, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Cloyster, Dewgong, Vaporeon, Lapras, Lanturn, Azumarill, Quagsire, Slowking, Politoed, Swampert, Ludicolo, Whiscash, Wailord, Milotic, Walrein, Gorebyss, Kyogre, Alomamola, Carracosta
I picked most of the relatively good ones
>>25532406
Is Milotic even any good these days? Haven't seen her much since lok gen 3.
>>25532459
How many of those are actually seen? I don't think anyone sees most of those pokemon
>>25532539
Quite a bit of those have Megas, of course they're seen. Especially Blastoise, Slowbro, Azumarill, Politoed, Swampert and Kyogre
>>25532751
Why use mega blastoise, when you could use mega Venus auto or mega charizard? Also kypgre is uber I thought
>>25532851
Because they achieve different goals.
>>25532539
Milotic is GREAT son. I run confuse ray, scald, ice beam, recover. shit can tank a leaf storm from a goddamn serperior.
>>25530380
Make poison super effective against Bug, Water, and Flying.
>Pesticides.
>Water and air pollution.
Make Poison hit grass for neutral damage.
>Again Pesticides are poisons which help plants grow by killing bugs.
Make Bug super effective against fairy.
>Fairy is pretty girly and girls usually are afraid of bugs
You could make a case for Ice being super effective against Bug and Bug being super effective against ground.
>Bugs get btfo by the cold
>A wide variety of bugs burrow underground
>Also alot of bugs live underneath rocks
>>25530905
>Nerfing Normal
Get the fuck outta here.
Normal needs a buff, though admittedly less than some other types.
>>25532928
What about against physical threats like mega Mawile and Azumarill, and bisharp?
>>25531003
>"Crawling?
>In /my/ skin?"
kek
All Types needs an equal number of resists and weaknesses both defensively and offensively and STAB and SE need to be made less powerful.
Boom, now all Pokemon have a shot regardless of Type.
>>25533279
>Boom, now every pokemon is almost equal
>Now to fix the movesets and stats for our Harrison Bergeron utopia
>>25531274
Which is why all mono-steels are ass. However, all Steels with a secondary tyoe and a decent stat spread are great.
Having great defensive properties for a type is a lot more important than great offensive properties when dual types exist.
>>25533053
I don't mind Fairy thematically, but had they not introduced it, Normal should've been made to be super effective to Dragon.
>the 2 "non-elemental" types
>everyman hero slays the dragon
>irony of the type associated with endgame bosses being weak to the type associated with early route HM slaves
Alternatively (or additionally), they could've made Dragon weak to Steel (slaying dragons with swords/polearms) if Fairy wasn't around to buff Steel's offense.
>>25530380
Make Ice resist Bug
Bug is a lost cause and should just let it burn
>>25533384
Yes, that's the next step. Do you want to hear how I'd do it?
>>25533437
Forgot
>dragon being weak to normal could reference mammals becoming dominant animals after reptile mass extinctions
>>25533470
>Bug is a lost cause and should just let it burn
Go kill yourself. Anyway, if no one uses Bug, the resist will be no good.
>>25533482
It's not like we killed the dinosaurs.
