Why is it that HGSS were so much better than all other Pokemon games
>>25512215
Because they're not. They're high tier but not the best
Best game content with comfy graphics.
I don't know if it's better than Newnova from BW2 considering the better engine and region design, but
>Took the best parts of Gen IV and put them into the most well-rounded region
There's no real issues with Johto other than the level curve isn't the best. It's not unfun to get around in like Hoenn and Sinnoh can be at times, and includes Kanto as a bonus
It just has the least wrong in terms of design
>>25512215
>Good designs.
>Good new types.
>Introduced fun mechanics.
>Decent story that upped the stakes from the previous game without going overboard.
>Culture drenched region was actually fun to explore.
Say what you will about Johto, you loved it anyway. So what would happen if they made it even better?
BW2 > HGSS > Pt > BW > the rest
Gen IV and V were god tier
>>25512250
All gen 5 was on the same engine anon.
>>25512235
Those games were the last official games and most likely the best so far. Even had better graphics than the gens that followed them.
>>25512250
When will the "Gen 5 is good" meme ever stop?
It's a cancer ruining this board
Playing SS right now. Still love the hell out of it.
though the one real gripe I have as I did with gen 2 is the Pokedex.
WAY too many gen 1 mons when trying to do a run using only gen 2s. I feel pretty limited in my team options.
>>25512283
Same engine, but BW2 Unova had a much more interesting region with the only drawback being no breeding until postgame
There were also some changes between games, like the Boxes having more options in BW2
The only thing BW2 didn't do better was the rival. Hugh is a shit stain
>>25512301
Because it is good.
>>25512301
Because it was good silly.
>>25512250
>It's not unfun to get around in like Hoenn and Sinnoh
Yep, that's an Unova baby.
He hates the two regions that had exploration and worship Unova, the blandest most linear region...
>>25512324
I like Sinnoh though. And BW2's Unova is eons better than BW's
Also I started with Kanto
>>25512263
Make trainer levels make sense.
>>25512302
People always fail to understand that GSC/HGSS were meant to be sequels to RGBY/FRLG in the same way BW2 were sequels to BW
It wasn't meant to be an entire new thing standing on it's own. It just added new things.
Actually playing HG right now. The thing I'm liking the best is the quality sprite work. I cannot abide the horrid backsprites in BW/2, it's just disgusting.
>>25512262
>Good designs.
Loved them, they had their own unique flair that made that entire generation distinct, both being odd and wrapped in a shroud of mystery.
>Culture drenched region was actually fun to explore.
Best thing about Johto, but in the end it was still Pokémon so they didn't focus on it as much as they should've. Still did well though.
>>25512302
Gen II was like a genuine sequel. You aren't supposed to play it in isolation. It adds to the roster of Gen I rather than trying to replace it. That's why there are way fewer direct counterparts.
Nostalgia goggles on me. I'm super biased. But fuck it, it is an opinion.
To me it made more sense than a region which somehow has no Pokemon of another region despite being in the same country and being a similar ecosystem.
Like, I liked Ratattas and Pidgeys being everywhere. Pidgeons and rats are everywhere. I don't want new Pokemon for them every time.
>>25512301
This.
>>25512301
After Gen VI, my love for Gen V grows even stronger
>>25512215
Why is it that HGSS fixed none of GS problems?
>>25512294
>the last official games
Whatever gets you through the night, honey
>>25512250
Too bad the leveling curve is terrible.They even changed up some trainers, but usually it was for the worse. It was a problem when GSC came out, and they didn't even bother. At least GSC had some shiny new features. Walking pokémon and pokéathlon isn't going to cut it.
I would also say that not taking advantage of the full Johto dex is a design flaw. It makes battles stale as there is less variety. They should have changed more up in that regard, seeing how they did change at least some trainers around (notably Claire).
The Pokewalker was cool as fuck too
Being able to get an early game Kangaskhan was neat
>>25512215
It isn't, it's only the best in atmosphere and music; arguably at that.
The variety of pokemon you had was incredibly strained and didn't really open up until you hit Olivine, and even then you pool is still small. Shit, for some reason certain pokemon are exclusive to Kanto.
The leveling curve was jank ass fuck and there is no sense of pacing.
Johto is a straight line, and granted to are Unova and Kalos, but Johto is a small and full of plains.
If you're to make an entire region post-game don't make the entirety of it easier the E4, come the fuck on. It's bad enough they neutered it. (Props for restoring Viridian Forest though)
It does these things worse than any pokemon game, and the most damning thing is that they didn't bother to fix the issues for HGSS.
>inb4 gen[xxx]fag
Silver was my first game and still love it but I can't understand how it's anyone's favorite, especially now.Totodile was the only good starterPlatinum is objectively the best game.
>>25512542
>Platinum is objectively the best game.
This and BW2 second. And before any shitposter replies, I've been playing pokemon for 17 years. I still have my Super Game Boy. Fuck your nostalgia and memes.
>>25512333
They let you choose which way you go after the fourth gym so they had to make sure you wouldn't get completely overwhelmed.
>>25512600
Sure, but like, Karate King's Pokemon are about the same level as Jasmine's. You can't fight him until you defeat Claire.
Why? What the fuck?
I am in Blackthorn and all my Pokemon are level 34. How does this shit happen? They were supposed to be that level ages ago.
I'm exploring and doing side quests as best as I can to farm XP without grinding, but like I can't get Ho-Oh yet. I can't get Lugia yet. Dark Cave has fuck all in it.
I get that if you want exploration you have to be reasonable about trainers, but like, they can do better than this.
>>25512708
>You can't fight him until you defeat Claire.
Yes you can.
Anon you took the bait.
>>25512739
>In order to find him, the player must use the center entrance which offers access to water, then Surf ahead and climb a Waterfall.
I am pretty sure you need to beat Claire to use Waterfall outside of battle. Both in HGSS and GSC. Otherwise, you could just go to the Pokemon league before beating Claire (not that they'd let you in).
>>25512800
Why are you talking about fighting the Kanto Gym leader who you fight in Mt Mortar?
He's not a apart of the Johto Gym leaders
Chuck is...but you fight him before you fight Jasmine
They're the best for me for a huge nostalgia factor and for the fact that I love Johto, BW2 had shitty sprites, some shitty pokémon and was too futuristic for my tastes, I prefer an old traditional Johto.
>>25512855
Chuck isn't the karate king, dummy. Also, his Pokemon are obviously weaker than Jasmine's.
Karate King's are both 34. But you can't fight him until you beat Claire, whose Pokemon are 37 and 40.
Why? Like, for what purpose?
I said the issue was with trainer levels, not just gym leader levels. There's lots of trainers other than gym leaders.
>>25512542
>Platinum is best
How is it that D/P were so shit but Platinum is so god-tier? Is it that all the small fixes add up to one big improvement?
>>25512921
A ton of feathers is still a ton.
It probably had to do with them having nowhere to go but up, but then forgot that there was a limit.
>>25512915
Yes, it was me not that anon that first replied that you could, thinking you were talking about Chuck(didn't even remember who the Karate King was). Yeah, Johto has the worst progression in the franchise.
>>25512921
Pretty comfy, better storyline and good features.
>>25512215
Because you're a Sinnohfetus with nostalgia.
Objectively speaking, they're probably the worst.
>>25513017
I have fucktons of nostalgia for that gen and I am willing to do a complete 180 as I catch up, but I really don't think absolute worst is being fair. It did a lot of things wrong, but so did a lot of the early gens. Sure, abilities and the Phys/Spec split were huge as well, but things like Special becoming Sp. Def and Sp. At is on a whole other level to me.
>>25513189
>Sure, abilities and the Phys/Spec split were huge as well, but things like Special becoming Sp. Def and Sp. At is on a whole other level to me.
No, it was actually the Phys/Spec split from move types to individual attacks that was the mos huge by a landslide. It literally added the most diversity with movesets and pokemon roles in a team than anything else in the franchise.
You actually had a reason to consider different attack moves of the same type other than their base attack! A shit ton of pokemons' stats suddenly made sense instead of simply being awkward due to their typing in previous games rendering the pokemon useless.
>>25513276
But would it have worked had they not split special into two stats?
I wonder. I can't imagine Pokemon ending up where it is now without Gen 2. Gen 2 added things like multiple colors rather than shades, breeding, two new types, fixing the mechanics of psychic.
You are probably right though. I love the idea and it has made so many Pokemon so much more useful. I guess in the early gens, they didn't care much about STAB, which is why there were Pokemon who basically only learned normal moves.
And at a competitive level, it must've been a phenomenal change. I dunno.
>>25512215
>lag gold and slow silver
They're not even better than the gen 2 games they're attempting to surpass, let alone such games as B2W2, Crystal and Emerald. They're overrated as fuck that's for sure.
>>25513394
As helpful as Special Defense was, Hitmonchan can use the elemental punches now instead of looking like a child that doesn't know why its boxer can't punch
>>25512294
is this bait
>>25512250
Sinnoh is fun to get around, but Unova and Hoenn can get so tedious at times. I never felt bored with Johto, I really liked the Japanese-y feel it had, from the buildings to the Kimono girls. It felt more authentic. Like that feel you get when watching Rurouni Kenshin. Its just nice and fun to explore. I got a similar fun vibe out of the sevii Islands. I just wish that part of the remakes had been longer.
>>25512215
What these games did wrong:
>Level curve
>Speed
>Several remixes
>Pokemon distribution (mostly GSC's problem)
What they did right:
>Following pokemon
>dungeon preview
>several godlike remixes that are definitely improvements like most battle themes
>Legendaries getting own OST
>Legendaries getting own role
>Ecruteak
>C features
>Actually fixing many of the johto-mon-availability issues through the Safari
>Safari and its route
>>25512215
The level curve is god awful. There is no excuse for why the trainers to the east of Mahogany Town have such shit levels.
What makes HGSS one of my favourites is definitely the sprite work. I did a lot of mapping back in the day so it really pleases me seeing nicely made tilesets. Pretty much all the ground tilework was excellent. Sure, some of the 3D models looked a little awkward, but it was a big step up from DP. The colours used were crisp and clean, and were nice and easy on the eyes. It was just straight up comfortable. Its pretty obvious they worked hard to make sure the colour schemes used worked together. DPPt was far too bright and crude, and BW/2 were too washed out. The tall grass tiles and trees looked awful in these and the 3D models were really awkward-looking as well. But of course, the DS wasn't exactly made for perfect 3D models so that doesn't really help out.
When you pair that up with nicely remixed music, updated game and battle mechanics, the whole Pokemon following you thing, and the fact that GSC continued to carry the Pokemon hype back in the day (so a good portion of people are going to feel nostalgic for it), it's no surprise that many people place it so highly in their personal main line game rankings.
I just wish that Gamefreak would go back to putting the same amount of effort into their ground tile/model work in the newer games that they did in HGSS. Maybe they got new artists in who don't understand colour theory as well or something, but I feel as if a lot of improvements could have been made to XY/ORAS to make them more visually pleasing.
>>25513612
What about the fact that you can go east without going west first?
>>25513658
>>25513591
>New Bark Town
The same
>Cherrygrove
Improved
>Violet
Ruined
>Azalea
Not ruined, but it was unfixable
>Goldenrod
Ruined
>Ecruteak
Improved to infinity
>Cianwood
The same, probably a bit inferior now
>>25513716
Doesn't change a thing. They're all the same level
How hard would it be for them to program so the game scales the levels of certain areas accordingly by checking how many badges you have obtained? Wouldn't that solve the problem in the midgame of Johto.
Wouldn't fix the Kanto issues. Those just need an overhaul altogether.
>>25513716
You can't though. It doesn't let you go to the east of Mahogany Town until you've beaten Team Rocket at the Radio Tower. You can't even access Mahogany Town without coming from the west.
>>25512301
Haha good one anon
Anime fags hate BW but love BW2 even though BW is better and deserves more credit for having the balls to be unique.
The only fucking thing BW2 fags mention is "muh post game" which is only the Mary Sue tournament.
These same people discredit HGSS for the level curve, which isn't great, but it's not the end all worst thing ever in the series.
Game freak peaked with HGSS/Platinum and I don't get why people have trouble accepting this.
>>25514161
I like BW and prefer the characters and story in that one to BW2, but BW2 has a better region design and expanded Pokedex. More options never hurt, look what it did for Platinum
Cheren and Bianca >>> Hugh any day
Also I can't honestly say the series peaked with what was essentially an unstable engine since BW massively retooled everything to be quicker and to the point. But anything's better than X and Y
>>25514161
>Anime fags hate BW but love BW2 even though BW is better and deserves more credit for having the balls to be unique.
>having a unique story deserves more credit than better gameplay
Maybe for you and pokemon is the wrong series if you're looking for that. They certainly doesn't deserve more credit than they get.
>"muh post game"
>the game having content isn't a big thing!!!1
>the Mary Sue tournament.
Get cancer and die.
>These same people discredit HGSS for the level curve, which isn't great, but it's not the end all worst thing ever in the series.
It's amusing how you word your sentences to support your own bias.
>>25512273
>5
>god tier
Gen 5 was complete dog shit. Worst gen by far. Don't even get me started on that shitty 2.5d art style they did plus all Pokémon looked fucking disgusting on the DS screen when blown up.
>>25514324
>>25514324
So that's what a wrong opinion looks like.
>>25514379
DUDE UNDERTALE LAMO XDDDDDD
>>25512301
this man speaks the truth
>>25514496
You seem upset
No. HGSS and everything after is non canon.
Platinum was the end of Pokemon, senpai.
Seriously, what can go last God in the PokeDex?
>>25513935
Right. Forgot the city's names.
>>25513854
Hm?
>>25514237
>get cancer and die
Jeez buddy. I hope nobody in your family ever has to experience having cancer.
>>25512215
All pokemon games are equally awful in the eyes of Objective Reasoning
>>25515521
They already have. Fuck off, retard.
Level curve fags are some of the most objectively wrong people I've ever seen in my life.
They take ignorance is a bliss to a whole nother level.
Research a bit before making this opinion ya? Especially about HGSS
>>25515647
My condolences anon.
>>25515661
Hgss making the issue worse mind you.
>>25515661
>Research a bit before making this opinion ya? Especially about HGSS
We've played the games, twice.
No, the extra route did not help. It could've but they fucked it up.
>>25515661
>this legitimate criticism is wrong but I'm not going to explain why and will only give you the vague option to "do research"
Exactly what results am I going to get for googling "why is the level curve in hgss not garbage?"
>>25513658
Patrician taste
>>25512250
>unfun to get around in like Hoenn
What is this meme?
I won't hide my bias because I'm Gen3er, but how is Hoenn at all tedious or unfun? Even as a kid I had no problem with the surfing areas, which are the only place I can see people complaining about - and you can use repels. The land itself is fine. No more caves or such places than any of the other regions.
>>25512273
put emerald above BW and this is correct
Because Pokemon peaked with gen 4
IT HAD THAT SHIT WHERE UR POKEMON WALK BEHIND U IN THE OVERWORLD THAT WAS FUCKING FIRE
>ANY AND ALL Pokemon could follow you
>All that sweet Gen2 Lore & scenery
>Very Japanese
>Team Rocket trying to function w/out their boss which is kinda funny to watch
>You can take a train back to Kanto
>Like G/S/C but prettier
>Pokeathlon
