Would you have IVs removed from Generation VII onward? Why or why not?
>>25388210
I have yet to see a single good argument defending IVs.
They want to force this "pokemon are our friends" moral down our throat, yet IVs are exactly the opposite of that. They force you to bike sim for hours on end until you get a specific thing that you want and throw away the rest. IVs are just arbitrary values that handicap your Pokemon because there's no advantage to not min/maxing them. And getting good IVs isn't even rewarding because at the end of the day, it still comes down to RNG rather than directly off the player's effort.
>b-but muh species variety!
Natures, gender, abilities, moves, and EVs already do this and to a way better degree since they're actually easily controllable and there's strategic merit to using a different set.
>>25388210
yeah, they only serve to make your ingame mons dedicated shitmons
no we just a need a system to increase them than isn't bike simulator, like a different variant of super training or special items like Calcium, Zinc etc.
>>25388256
Then they're just redundant with EVs, they just shouldn't exist.
>>25388237
>b-but muh 0 speed IV and 0 physical attack for foul play
Also add a better thing for Hidden Power, we can't even make it fairy because the formula for it is dependent on IVs.
>>25388256
So you're saying to make IVs just into EVs.
We already have that.
It's called EVs.
Removing them would make getting pokemon unsatisfying. Getting the correct IVs is like getting a rare item to drop in a normal RPG. Grinding IVs up afterwards wouldn't be the same thing, it'd be like grinding money to buy that item instead of getting chances for it to drop. The random chance makes it exciting and makes the pokemon feel more valuable.
>>25388241
>tfw play through platinum
>check ivs of team postgame
>they are all total garbage
The rustling is real. These days I breed pentaperfects then trade them over to new characters.
>>25388237
Usually I see
>but muh hidden power
>but muh trick room
>but muh gyro ball
I like the competitive scene but you shouldn't need to breed for hours (not including hacked Ditto) for just a few Pokémon. Since everybody is breeding or hacking for 31 in at least 5 stats if they're not some Trick Room gimmick Pokémon will be the same. EVs, Ability, and Nature are enough to make the Pokémon "unique". IVs are just an unnecessary complicated RNG feature.
>>25388261
>>25388265
go enjoy your bike sim then, GF will never get rid off IVs
>>25388210
There is literally no reason for IVs to exist when EVs are a thing. They only serve to force you to grind for the perfect pokemon for hours on end based on pure RNG, rather than any form of real effort. It completely abandons the "All pokemon are valuable!" moral that the whole series has pushed from the beginning, and nobody on the planet could honestly say it's an enjoyable mechanic. Sure, it adds variety to pokemon, but, again, EVs, natures, abilities, etc. already do this job perfectly fine.
IVs and EVs should be removed AT ALL.
Things need to return to their rightful state when you just hyperbeamed everything
>>25388262
they should also just get rid of hidden power. it gives good coverage to a lot of things that shouldn't really have it.
>>25388270
Getting the right egg moves, nature, (hidden) ability, and gender, are all already coinflips. What makes another arbitrary roulette any more satisfying than saving that time to actually battle?
By that same logic, things like Destiny Knot shouldn't be in the game, nobody should breed in any game but Gen 3 so you can't pass anything like IVs via Power Items down.
IVs, flinching, confusion, paralysis, attract and missing should all be removed
>>25388304
>>25388294
>not wanting to spend an unreasonable amount of time mindlessly farming eggs = not wanting any skill or strategy involved in the game
>mindlessly farming eggs takes skill
Take your strawman and get the fuck out.
>>25388270
Not really. After the first few legitimately bred Pokémon it starts to get boring and loses the value. It gets boring quickly. At least a minigame like Super Training would be interactive.
>>25388311
You have no idea what a strawman is.
>>25388296
That's already a thing rooted into the series though. Hidden Value systems have been reworked before and are likely to be reworked again if the series doesn't end. Removing things from the series like entire moves is a bit more difficult if you keep compatibility unless you just make it clunky and have it so you can't transfer specific Pokemon with these specific moves up.
>>25388237
>Natures, gender, abilities, moves, and EVs already do this and to a way better degree
possible IV combinations: millions
possible nature/gender/ability combinations: hundreds
IVs ensure every Pokemon caught in casual play is unique and it makes the world feel more realistic
what they need to do is just trivialize competitive breeding and make it as distant as possible from casual play
>>25388304
>IVs, flinching, confusion, paralysis, attract and missing should all be removed
>I'm salty because I can't git gud and have lost to fucking attract
I wont buy the new games if they still have IVs
>>25388311
>flinching, confusion, paralysis, attract, missing
>skill or strategy
lol
>>25388316
And neither do you, apparently.
>>25388237
This.
/thread
>>25388336
>he seriously thinks that status effects/accuracy are random and that there's no way to work around them
>>25388327
Flannerys torkoal. I was stuck in that SINGULAR BATTLE for so long
Did you know attract doesn't wear off? I didn't.
>>25388296
Just nerf it a little
>>25388323
>IVs ensure every Pokemon caught in casual play is unique and it makes the world feel more realistic
Except nobody gives a fuck about IVs in casual play and all the attributes I mentioned along with level makes the Pokemon's stats seem unique anyway. And the second it starts getting EVs it's filtered even more. This retarded tedious mechanic isn't worth the small number of players who actually find joy in catching multiple of the same pokemon, looking at numbers on the screen, going "hyuk, these numbers are different!" and then it having no impact on the rest of the game. Realism doesn't make it an enjoyable GAME mechanic.
>>25388323
Casual Play makes IVs 100% irrelevant when there's absolutely no way to actually check them for yourself.
Natures and gender already give you a 2% chance that any individual Pokemon you capture is going to be the exact same as someone catching the exact same Pokemon with the exact same moveset, level, and ability. It's a less than 1% chance if something like Dexnav comes into the next games and alternate/hidden abilities and egg moves are going to be available from wild Pokemon. This is all still assuming the same level and that you're not gonna teach it a bunch of TMs or give it an item or anything right away, which would already make it unique on its own, considering two Salamence with the same moves and same stats can be holding two different items and one will make you a top tier threat while the other bans you from ubers.
>>25388237
>They want to force this "pokemon are our friends" moral down our throat, yet IVs are exactly the opposite of that
I see this argument a lot (in fact its already cropped up twice in this thread) and it makes no sense to me.
Whether or not your friend was born with disadvantages (in this case IVs) should have nothing to do with whether or not they're your friend. Or I guess a closer comparison would be something like, just because your old dog had a bad leg doesn't mean you automatically stop loving them because you have a new, healthier dog.
If anything, this supposed moral is more like "friendship/hard work can overcome adversity", like in the cartoon when Pikachu beats Raichu or whatever. Objectively speaking your friend is inferior in every way, but that doesn't mean you should give up trying.
For the record, I don't like IVs much either, but only because it's an objectively unpleasant game mechanic. The better option would be to make breeding an actually enjoyable experience, but I know GF will never bother doing that.
Alternatively, one idea I've always thrown around is that they could keep the current system of how IVs are obtained, but give everything the same total amount of IVs, just spread around differently. That way you'll still have this "random variation" shit people insist is so important, but ingame teams won't be completely useless.
>>25388341
I didn't say that. You can work around them if you want to waste slots on fucking hone claws and shitberries, sure. 50% chances to not move, 5% chances to not hit, they're bullshit. It's undeniable.
>>25388351
60 Base Power Hidden Power without any ability to cover Fairy really doesn't do much in the meta right now at all. You mostly only see it on things that otherwise wouldn't have slots to fill those moves, like half the Unova dex.
They could just make it so that you can increase/decrease IVs somehow
Its an easier solution
>>25388360
cant read
>>25388360
That's different in a game where the numbers actually matter though. Your bro the Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon will lose 100% of the time to the opponent's Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon just because yours has a 30 Speed IV and theirs has a 31 and literally nothing will ever change that no matter how close you are as friends. So the idealogy of the series itself is telling you "You will lose, 100% of the time, if you keep using that one you like instead of a proper one"
>>25388386
No because the way to alter the values would be different
>>25388390
>two systems for the same thing
>good design
>game freak
IV ALTERING CONFIRMED IN SUMO
>>25388390
And why would it be a better idea to make it so you can change IVs, the one thing that made IVs and EVs different, instead of just adding this new way to alter values into EVs, like Super Training did?
>>25388323
>possible IV combinations: millions
And how many of those combinations are used in competitive autism? Hexaperfect, pentaperfect, whatever you need to get the desired element for hidden power?
>>25388414
Most of the hidden powers don't even get used.
>>25388323
>possible IV combinations: millions
32^6=1,073,741,824
IVs should stay but with an option to improve them with the types of moves you use the actions of the pokemon can improve their natural IVs to an extenet, maybe 10-15 or something.
Like use a physical move and gain individual proficency in attack
unless they overhaul evs too.
I said this in another thread, but I would very much like to see a grading system from D (lowest stat) to S (only possible with a helpful nature.)
The part I am debating is should it be like current IV's (any stat can be any value), or if you should have 1 of each rank (one stat is D, one is C, etc.)
The latter would increase variation, and kill off the desire for pentaperfect, but on the other hand it could kill some pokes competitively.
>>25388385
Speed should be reworked to the same as a range like the damage formula perhaps?
An individual pokemon with a natural talent for speed should exist, and so should the possibility for a pokemon that is slightly slower usually to be able to take the initiative in a moment of critical focus.
>>25388270
>Getting the correct IVs is like getting a rare item to drop in a normal RPG
No, it's really not.
>>25388338
The people you replied to did not make strawman arguments. Retards on 4chan need to stop calling any argument they disagree with a strawman.
>>25388355
>>25388358
Why are you going on about things like EVs and movesets? this isn't about battling, those things are also in control of the player and thus don't serve the same purpose as IVs. for example if it wasn't for IVs, the Bold natured Mudkip or whatever I caught in gen 3 would be genetically identical to a Bold Mudkip I catch in gen 6, and for collection purposes that would be really lame
I mean, you're going to need to play breeding simulator for competitive battling anyway in order to get egg moves, easy natures and to start from scratch, so why not just refine that process instead of ruining another part of the game? they're a core part of the game and aren't going anywhere
>>25388468
>Saying "If he doesn't like X thing he must also want to get rid of Y thing even though he never actually said that." isn't a strawman argument.
wew lads
>>25388448
>Speed should be reworked to the same as a range like the damage formula perhaps?
Or speed can stay the same and IVs can be removed so your favorite Pokemon that's been with you since 2003 isn't just 100% genetically inferior and always 100% going to lose to the opponent having an optimized version of that exact Pokemon.
That would be a lot easier than adding a speed calculation formula and adding even more random chance to critically move faster for no reason.
IVs are an interesting mechanic in terms of the fact they don't actual exist to make the games more fun, but instead add a bit of colour to the world by making every Pokémon unique to the average player
A system that serves the same purpose of individualising stats without a frustrating element of randomness for competitive players would be better in my opinion, but I can't think of anything to replace it that wouldn't fundamentally change the way the battle system works
>>25388477
The people accused of using strawman arguments never did this though. The people quoted just said they think luck based mechanics should be removed.
>>25388385
So continuing on my previous comparison, do you think if you had a dog with a bad leg, they would win in a race against a perfectly healthy dog if both of them trained just as hard as the other?
You will lose, 100% of the time, assuming your opponent is as good a battler as you and they are using an objectively better monster than yours, yeah. At the same time, I'm sure lots of you have wiped the floor with kids using full teams of legendaries with your shitmon teams on battle spot before. That's because you're a better battler, and you might've even won those battles with your bros.
Really, I think part of the problem is just metagaming in general, people mining games for data the instant they come out and pulling them apart to analyze them. If we didn't know how breeding worked and instead just went "hey look my Venasaur was born with a bit more speed than yours, but yours has more attack" it'd probably have the effect GF originally intended with it. Metagamers can ruin the immersion for everyone else, but that's no different than any multiplayer game with interesting story/lore, really.
Anyway I'm just saying that the concept behind IVs doesn't really directly contradict the supposed "moral" of Pokemon, that's all. If you want to argue that IVs are an unpleasant game mechanic that should go away, I don't have an issue with that.
>>25388477
Right, but neither of the people were arguing anything like that.
>>25388476
Because going on about EVs and IVs are practically the exact same thing. The level 100 Swampert with Surf/Earthquake I raised in Gen 3 was raised in every stat because it was my storymode Pokemon. The Level 100 Swampert with Surf/Earthquake I raised in Gen 6 got raised with Super Training to be maxed in Attack. Even if their IV combinations, gender and natures are the exact same, I get to look at their stat screen and see how different they are and probably how much better the Gen 6 Swampert is compared to the Gen 3 one. That speaks volumes more about individuality than 6 random arbitrary values in the game that are there completely out of random chance that just blatantly decide if a Pokemon is usable or not.
EV's are already the system to customize your pokemon stats. Remove IVs. Use the pokeradar system of "3 stars". A 3-star pokemon has higher overall stats than a 0,1 and 2 stars.
>>25388483
Now that they no longer use sprites, they could just do what they did in the Pokemon Stadium games and slightly adjust the hues of the pokemon by random amounts.
That, plus natures, evs, moves, abilities, etc. would provide for a wide range of pokemon without making one unusable due to shit IVs.
>>25388546
forgot to add: make the 3-star pokemon very rare. Can't breed 3-star pokes, at max you can breed 2-star ones.
>>25388483
>A system that serves the same purpose of individualising stats without a frustrating element of randomness for competitive players would be better in my opinion, but I can't think of anything to replace it
Instead of a 1-one million chance of a random Pokemon in the wild having the random stat values you want, we could change it to a 1-in-25 and make that number even more manipulatable. These values could be something simple like -10% to one stat and +10% in another stat. And they could even detail the Pokemon's personality to add more life into the world, rather than being completely arbitrary values inserted to stats.
Wait
>>25388522
Exactly. Anybody can quote the definition but if you don't know it in practice then you really don't know what it is (imo anyway).
>>25388210
I'd love for that to happen, but it probably wouldn't be flat out removed.
I'd like for a way to modify IVs ingame as a compromise.
>>25388546
But if there's no IVs, there's no difference between the Pokemon, which means you don't need the star system, which is entirely based on IVs.
>>25388594
i don't see the problem in other game sin which you recruit monsters, they are all the same.
In competitive all pokes are the same, so it doesn't change anything, it just rmeoves the endless hours of breeding.
For the sake of things, Pokemon from Red and Blue being transferrable to Sun and Moon, but not transferrable to XY is likely due to the different structure of the EV/IV system between Gen 1 and Gen 6.
But at the same time if XY are compatible with S/M, I doubt they'd convert the EV/IV system upward, otherwise they would let R/B/Y be compatible with XY. And I doubt they would just have both the RBY and the XY stat systems in S/M.
I can't be the only one who thinks this means Sun/Moon could also have a differently structured IV/stat system.
>>25388594
Consider Pumpkaboo/Gourgeist.
>>25388577
It would be cool if there were a minigame that were fun and allowed you to increase IVs, but if it's really that easy to do then we really don't need IVs outside of gimmicks like Trick Room. It will be healthier for the community too because people won't be bitched at for not wanting to spend hours for very little reward. Hidden Power should be changeable using BP or money.
In the unlikely even they actually removed IVs, we'd get a million threads a weak about how Gamefreak is further casualizing Pokemon.
>>25388265
It's so you don't have to spend countless hours soft resetting for perfect IV Legendaries and so you could improve the shit-tier Event Pokemon you stupid retard.
>>25388424
Yes 1,000 millions.
>>25388613
That's not my point. If you remove IVs, you don't NEED a star-based system, unless you specifically make a new system, that again, has some kind of unspecified stat changes.
>>25388624
I could get behind that, but the size-changing aspect is specifically their gimmick. I get what you mean though.
>>25388618
I also think that only VC pokes will be transfered to Sun&Moon due to some changes to the system that makes all IV/EV pokes not compatible.
VC games pokemon don't have that system, so they can be properly adapted and generated in new games.
>>25388636
Yeah, that same thing would apply if we got rid of IVs alltogether, wouldn't it?
What would be the difference between removing IVs and making it so you could edit IVs like EVs?
>>25388618
I think you might be. What you're suggesting is that they change four gemerations worth of stat system rather than two. Which sounds more likely, really? The one that's more work or less?
>>25388644
>That's not my point. If you remove IVs, you don't NEED a star-based system, unless you specifically make a new system, that again, has some kind of unspecified stat changes.
The star system would be in place just to incentivize players into going to capture pokemon using the radar and things like that.
>>25388647
>What would be the difference between removing IVs and making it so you could edit IVs like EVs?So the pro-IV autists wouldn't throw a bitchfit
>>25388618
Well DVs are basically just IVs since 1 DV is 2 stat points at level 100. You can basically just double what the Pokémon has. But it is going to be a little weird since HP DVs in RBY are based on the other stats' DVs. The EVs are weird since you need like 65000 or something to max a stat and you can do it in every stat. I'm hoping the EVs get blanked though just so we can't make OP af Pokémon.
>>25388645
>VC games pokemon don't have that system
VC Pokemon games had DVs and IVs.
>>25388652
I was actually suggesting they change 6 generations worth of stat system, and then convert a 20 year old stat system and a 2 year old one into this new one to make everything fluid.
Age doesn't really actually change how much work is put into it. Conversions would be. Changing two systems into one is less work than changing one system into a different system into a third system.
>>25388660
>Pro-IV autists
I'm pretty sure it's more either purists who don't want anything except what daddy gamefreak has given them, or some weird equivilent of buyer's remorse where they don't want to regret the hours they've put into already breeding.
>>25388684
>or some weird equivilent of buyer's remorse where they don't want to regret the hours they've put into already breeding.
Reminds me of how people had a bitch fit when they lowered the level requirement for mounts in WoW.Even though only newfags take a long time to level up.
>>25388647
See >>25388629
>>25388632
Stop casualizing my children's game. Before anybody tells me Pokémon is for everyone, the target audience is children. So instead of bitching about the addition/removal of things, realize this game is aimed at children and not the hardcore adult fanbase.
>>25388684
I have boxes full of perfect IV breed pokemon. I would love it if IVS were removed so that I can stop playing bike simulator and go straight to battling with any pokemon I think is cool.
>>25388702
>what's the difference between removing IVs and changing IVs to be editable?
>it would be cool if there's a minigame
>we really don't need IVs outside of gimmicks
How did that even slightly answer my question?
>>25388702
>realize this game is aimed at children and not the hardcore adult fanbase.
Then why are IVs needed?
>>25388673
What you're suggesting IS more work, though. And it doesn't come with much actual benefit.
If they are using some new system for 7, then they have to build a way to convert 1&2, and 3-6 to this new system. That's a lot of changes. Alternatively, they could just change 1&2 to match 3-6 and keep things the same. It's less work.
Changing the IV system doesn't help the people Game Freak markets to. Their primary demographic is kids, and we are a secondary demographic. Most kids who play don't understand (or if they're like my cousin, understand but don't really care or play competitive) the IV system, or even the EV system. For them it's battle Pokémon, get stronger. It's no deeper for them. GF throws us a bone by making Legendaries have a few perfect set IVs, but that's it. They don't really care about the competitive scene, not enough to overhaul more than a decade of work for a quality of life change. It's not smart.
>>25388693
Something similar happens with pretty much every MMO, really (and even the occasional single player game). Whenever older content is made easier so newer players can catch up, there's always a section of player talking about how gamers these days are lazy because they won't grind for a virtual shiny or some dumb shit. It doesn't surprise me many of the dedicated competitive autists in Pokemon would have the same attitude.
Don't mind me, just adding another IP count to the thread that is in favor of removing IVs because they are a fucking retarded concept.
Go on.
>>25388721
It's how the game interprets stats and breeding and the like. The ability to breed Pokémon is mentioned in game, so even kids are likely to find it, even if it's by accident. IVs are a subsystem meant to manage things like this in game, behind the scenes. The fact that we as competitive players manipulate them isn't necessarily part of GF's intention. They give us a hand with the IV interpreter, but in the end it and its sister system of Effort Values are meant to be largely behind the scenes, not calculated rigorously for maximum efficiency.
>>25388715
Re-read it. It explains that while an option to edit IVs would be cool, there's not much of a reason to keep IVs because it would be so easy to edit.
>>25388721
Because Game Freak wanted to add something to make each Pokémon "unique"
>>25388210
Dont remove IVs but remove the gen 3 and onward EV system. Also remove the split, abilities, and natures.
>>25388730
> then they have to build a way to convert 1&2, and 3-6 to this new system. That's a lot of changes.
Not necessarily if the new system is just straight "No IVs". Instead of converting Gen 1&2 into 3-6, you just remove everything from Gen 1-6 when importing to Gen 7.
>Changing the IV system doesn't help the people Game Freak markets to. Their primary demographic is kids
Who would likely be the most benefitted by IVs no longer being a thing because they're absolutely autistic hidden values that have no place in the system.
If they remove IVs why not just convert pokemon with 5 or more perfect IVs to shinys if they get traded over to the new gen.
At least then all those people who grinded for high IVs would have something to show for
Or possibly something else about them to to signify their high IVs
>>25388731
>It doesn't surprise me many of the dedicated competitive autists in Pokemon would have the same attitude.
What the fuck are you on about?
It's mostly competitive players that don't want IVs.
>>25388757
>Also remove the split
>Fire Punch being physical makes perfect sense, guys!
>>25388774
Fuck, meant special.
>>25388759
I agree simply removing them would be simpler, but I still think it's a nonissue.
Kids largely don't even know that IVs and EVs exist, they wouldn't notice a change and therefore wouldn't care. It's an unnecessary removal.
>>25388782
Nah, you meant physical.
>>25388785
EVs are clearly visible to anyone with working eyesight in Gen 6.
IVs affect battling though, and if kids know natures and EVs affect stats, they'll look at their level 100 with maxed out speed, +speed nature, and it'll be gamefreak's own nonsense that their Pokemon is just arbitrarily slower than their friend's.
>>25388772
Yeah, that's why I used an ambiguous term like "many" instead of "all". Read slower bro.
>new system
>all pokemon start with 0IVs across the board
>only way to get IVs is with "gems"
>which cost 12$ for a batch of 5 at the eshop
>1 gem = 6 IVs added to a random stat
>they never cap
>>25388210
Removing IVs/EV is unnecessary.
>>25388785
It's also kind of unnecessary since everybody is breeding or hacking to have perfect IVs. When everbody who the IV system really affects has Pokémon with 31 IVs in 5 or 6 stats then the Pokémon are the same. Natures, EVs, and Abilities do a much better job of making Pokémon unique.
>>25388803
Please don't give anyone any ideas.
We're at the point in vidya where this isn't an impossible idea.
>>25388237
This. I couldn't have voiced my opinion on it better.
>>25388210
I'd keep the IVs but completely change how they work.
Instead of 32 possible values(0-31), I'd use only 4(0-3), this way is easier for both catched and breeded pokemon to be competitive.
I'd also make Hidden Power no longer related to IVs and possible to change its type at any time talking with a NPC
>>25388785
Not necessarily.
One major reason for why you couldn't move your Pokemon from Gen 2 to Gen 3 was the entirely reworked stat system.
Now, they made the original games available again, so moving pokemon from those games to S/M is made possible with the removal of IVs, arguably the biggest issue in the stat system, while also retaining compatibility with previous games.
Because let's be real, is there any real reason for kids to get RBY on the VC if they couldn't move the Pokemon to the new games?
>>25388793
True, I forgot Super Training and it's meter. I still don't think it warrants a complete overhaul.
I dunno, IVs make sense to me. People optimizing are already crazy, so it isn't like a few more steps of crazy makes much difference.
Love your Pokemon as they are.
>>25388868
I just don't see why IVs exist at this point. If everybody they actually affect has perfect Pokémon then are IVs really necessary?
I've posted several times in this thread advocating keeping the IV system in place, simply because I don't think game Freak would go through the trouble of changing it.
I will admit, some of the points in this thread make me on board with their removal, letting natures, EVs, and abilities do the differentiating between Pokémon.
My only question is how would Hidden Power work in this scenario? Perhaps the personalities could be it, but how would that be done and still avoid pointless grinding for Hidden Power?
I'm 25, yet I'm too dumb to learn how IVs/EVs work and I never bothered to know about them.
>>25388785
You don't get it, do you?
A game where the message is to be friends with your pokemon, and supposed to love them, purposely forces you to ditch them if you want to get serious about the game.
Do you really think kids don't care? Maybe in the past, but today is all about competition and watching they favorite youtuber play competitively against viewers.
And to add some anecdotal evidence, I was a kid when I decided to go into competitive pokemon.
How do you think I felt when I realized all my best imaginary monster friends were fucking garbage? Because yes, it was heartbreaking and terrible.
I thought maybe I was the autistic one that cared that much, but then my friends also wanted to try competitive after seeing me play and explaining them. And guess what, even my normie friends were devastated that they couldn't use the pokemon they ended up loving too much, just because they had such terrible IVs.
IVs are an issue and add nothing positive to the game.
>>25388786
>Prior to changes in Generation IV, all damaging Fire-type moves were special
>>25388891
I think people are underselling who IVs affect. IVs have a direct effect on stats, which have a direct effect on gameplay. It gives your Pokemon some unique quirks that set it apart from other Pokemon. Even a casual player might notice one of their Pokemon is surprisingly fast or something.
>>25388537
except it really doesn't say shit about IV's, only that you're an amazing retard
I don't play competetively at all
But I had it when I can a ralts or something similar and its S. Atk. is its lowest stat and I'll either have to stick with a shitty mon or catch another one.
>>25388913
EVs are super easy thanks to Super Training and Hordes.
>kill a Zubat, get +1 speed
>Kill 252 zubats, your speed is maxed
>divide how many zubats you need to kill using power items and vitamins
It's legitimately that simple. Do that again for a different stat and you're golden.
>>25388910
I think Hidden Power should be changeable with BP like buying an Ability Capsule. Or by using money (in game of course).
>>25388913
I've explained IVs and EVs to one of my friends like 10 times. I also explained genning Pokémon and have bred the occasional 5 IV Pokémon for him (and genned some more recently). If you're not into the competitive aspect of the game then it's probably forgettable.
>>25388210
I don't think they should remove them completely, just change how much the IVs can cause a difference. Have only 1-10 so its not impossible to catch near perfect pokemon and make the difference in final stats based on IVs minimal. Nothing hurts worse then finding out the pokemon you grew to love in your playthrough is absolute shit with most its IVs on the lowest end and cant compete with everyone elses perfect IV pokemon. If the difference is minimal then people can still breed for the best while allowing those who just want to use what they catch a fair chance.
>>25388934
But it doesn't much of a difference in game, especially since your Pokémon are usually a higher level than the opponent. In VC Red my Charizard was Level 58 by the time I challenged Sabrina's Gym (did Koga first). I can use cut to sweep the Gym Leader's teams. So while a kid may notice their Pokémon may be faster than one of the same species it doesn't really affect them outside of multiplayer.
>>25388923
As a kid, when I realized the Pokemon I used were terrible, I threw them away and got better ones.
Maybe you, your friends, your family, and even your pets are all autistic.
>>25388994
1-10 is still awfully broad given how shitty Pokémon's RNG is. Having Alakazam with 1-4 in everything but Attack and 10 in Attack is still not very good.
>>25388934
Not necessarily.
Casual players don't even know about the Base Stats of Pokemon, so they wouldn't know if the Pokemon was unusually fast for their species. Unless they catch multiples, but why would a casual do that?
>>25389034
This is the most fedoratastic thing I've read this month. Thank you.
>>25389034
I think I just got circumcised by this edge.
>>25388210
I wouldn't remove it. I want casuals tears keep flowing.
Make it a 1-5 scale
1 Poor
2 Weak
3 Average
4 Good
5 Great
Make it possible to "climb" ranks by training or using specific items.
Add random trivia besides natures to make them feel more "individual" or "realistic" for the autistic crowd.
Make the EV gain cap at 252 per stat and make the total 504, 508 or 512
Remove megas and rebalance the base stats of every pokemon, edit the type effectivenes
There, I fixed Pokemon
>>25389105
It's really only the competitive players who give a shit. The ones who spend hours breeding or battling other people.
>>25389040
Thats why the difference between stats caused by IVs would be minimized. Max IVs would be made to only give a minimal advantage so that instead of getting completely owned you could have a close fight or even win with superior strategy or luck. The current system pretty much guarantees a 0 IV pokemon to lose to a 31IV one because the difference in final stats is far to great. A new system with less IVs and minimal difference between those IVs would allow just enough diversity in pokemon while allowing those on the lower range to still effectively compete.
I would not remove IVs, but I'd make them range from 0 to 3, multiplied by 8 for stats calculation purposes, and also replace RNG grind breeding with some sort of minigames required for getting a very good baby Pokemon, preferrably not accessible until postgame. Also rig IV generation for newly received mons so the players won't be able to get good IV mons during ingame.
Also make all legendaries start with 0 IVs on everything and introduce a separate set of minigames for them required to awaken their innate power and increase their IVs.
Make Hidden Power type dependent on Pokemon's personality, itself tied to their upgringing through various other minigames and stuff.
Long story short, less resets and more legitimate effort required to assemble your pentaperfect team, while also giving players more incentive to bond with their Pokemon.
>Bitching about EVs and IVs
i want casuals to fucking leave
>>25389127
EV cap is effectively 508 since the last 2 EVs can't affect a stat. Honestly the characteristic should be what makes the Pokémon "unique" since you don't really pay attention to that otherwise. Don't care too much for Megas outside of shitmon.
>>25389140
>The current system pretty much guarantees a 0 IV pokemon to lose to a 31IV one because the difference in final stats is far to great.
Not even slightly accurate at all. The difference between a Blissey with all 0 IVs and all 31 IVs is 714 to 683 Health.
Pokemon is played in level 50 format now anyway, so the difference is halved. 362 to 347. A 0IV Blissey isn't going to suddenly be OHKO'd by any bubblebeam that comes its way.
>>25389173
>muh casuals insult
>stop removing pointless features from my children's game
>>25389177
To add to this though, everyone suggesting a smaller range is ignoring the inherent problem of Pokemon being a numbers based game and a smaller range is still a range. Speed stat being a binary of "do I get to OHKO my opponent before they OHKO me, Y/N" means a range of 0-2 or a range of 0-1000 means if a Pokemon is 999 to 1000 or 1 to 2, the former is still going to lose 100% of the time.
>>25389209
Well, having a smaller range means it's easier to get something with the max. Yeah, it doesn't solve this "muh in-game bros aren't perfect" issue that some have, but y'know, they're idiots.
I don't think Gamefreak is going to remove IV's, but they should change how Hidden Power works now that it's incompatible with fairy. Have it deal the same damage no matter what your IV's are. Have the option to change the typing at will with an NPC. That way a Pokemon can have access to multiple HP's.
This is the streamlining we need because the original system is just fucking retarded for no reason
I think a reasonable fix that would cut down on IV problem would be if they simply turned into a 1/0 bonus. Either you have a bonus points in certain stat or you don't (no 0-31 scale). Also, pokes would be guaranteed to have at least 2 stats boosted, randomly. This would make breeding pretty simple, while still allow for diversity and strategies relying on certain IVs to be 0.
>>25389236
I don't think they'll actually do this either. It's just that when everybody who IVs actually affect have Pokémon with 31 in everything it becomes unnecessary.
>>25389233
Removing IVs would solve both of those things.
>>25389236
It already deals same damage with, that was changed gen 6.
In addition to allowing freely changing the type, I think it'd be nice to also let it go between Physical and Special.
>>25388928
So physical? You seem confused, anon!
>>25389034
This is an +18 site.
They need to either get rid of them, or make them way easier to mess with. It makes competitive play a neckbeard-fest and it must be confusing for kids.
>>25388753
>Because Game Freak wanted to add something to make your favorite Pokémon and the goddamn mascot "shit"
FTFY.
>>25388298
Egg moves and natures aren't coinflips.
>>25389050
I mean, people say there are kids who have teams of like, six pikachu.
>>25389018
Hm. I wonder if there are still kids out there who play Pokemon in parallel and actually battle and trade but remain casual. I assume that's where it would start being noticed.
But eh, I guess for me the bottom line is there is a reason to keep it around, but it isn't a very good one and helping even the most autistic group of Pokemon fans might be worth doing.
I just assumed everyone who played competitive Pokemon used like, a fake client that assumed all Pokemon had perfect IVs, EVs and ate a billion PP ups.
>>25389315
>I just assumed everyone who played competitive Pokemon used like, a fake client that assumed all Pokemon had perfect IVs, EVs and ate a billion PP ups.
There are a lot of people who play using the actual game. So having something as ridiculous as IVs which is based solely on luck without breeding, with even breeding being lick based is kind of stupid. The people who play using the game need to spend hours breeding (or a few minutes if they have hacked ditto) or need to hack, at which point IVs become pointless since we all have 31 in the necessary stats.
>mechanic intended to make each pokemon 'unique'
>all it does is create a hierarchy of breeding the best ones while throwing away the rest
Maybe if all Pokemon had the same total number of IV's, and only their distribution was randomized. Still unnecessary, but it represents their goal a lot better.
What does a measly thirty points do for you anyway
>>25389495
>What does a measly thirty points do for you anyway
wew
>>25388237
>end of the day, it still comes down to RNG rather than directly off the player's effort.
>everything typed before this is null
So, why did you fucking never fucking mind
>>25388289
>forced to do shit you are not forced to do at all
If nobody did this, nobody would have to do this. How about you stop playing other people and stop fucking bleeding on my board
>>25388323
>what they need to do is just trivialize competitive breeding and make it as distant as possible from casual play
This. Just give us some sort of special post-game breeding facility where you can pay money/farmable items to get 31 IVs
>>25389273
You probably should leave, then.
>>25388329
Since you don't see them they were never there
>caring so much about something that never affect you
>>25389315
I use a fake client like that as a way to test teams before spending time on a biking simulator.
I then make use of this knowledge in events like the weird gimmick tournaments Nintendo has. I've had reasonable success.
>>25389578
IVs do affect you though.
>>25389601
Is that fun? I thought all official tournaments allows legendaries and blatantly overpowered shit and 80% of all Pokemon lines were useless.
>>25388624
>>25388644
They fucking change size? Like what, the model? The dex?
>>25388923
Competition is dead but gamers and sports fans keep wiggling its arms around
>>25389185
Thank you for informing me, im a semi casual so I was unaware the difference in the 50lvl format was not much. In that case either being able to raise IVs somehow or removing them altogether and breeding becoming soley for moves/natures/cosmetics would be better.
In fact fuck it, gamefreak should implement "fusions" already by allowing us to create crossbreeds. Even if its a simple pallet swap it'd be way better then the hell which is competitive breeding.
>>25389653
They don't always do that.
They've had the weird gimmicky ones like "Only Hoenn Dex", or mono-type stuff. Those are usually pretty fun.
>>25389614
Ignoring the posts going on and on about beating gym leaders with cut, yes they make pokes sexier
>>25389653
VGC is basically OU, except this year it's GS Cup
>>25389685
Yes.
The models are different size, the dex differentiates them, super-sized ones have lower pitch in their cry and always have a miracle seed in the wild. (Also, different stats)
>>25389747
mono-type tournaments should be it!
>no IVs
Well good luck with Hidden Power and shinies, then.
>>25389771
I just haven't made it that far, I've been in glittering cave getting hundreds of Hard Stones looking for a helix fossil and I probably can't use Fling with Klutz anyway
>>25389812
Shinies have nothing to do with IVs and Hidden Power can just be changed right along side them. Hidden Power is just as retarded anyway.
>>25389812
They could easily keep a random number assigned to each Pokemon, just not have it affect stats. Same with spindas.
>>25389767
I don't understand.
>>25389747
That sounds pretty fun, actually.
IVs provide thematic depth but that they're implementing it into the game in this obtuse, half-assed way just seems silly.
Combine that with Natures being similarly randomly and it's even crazier.
It goes completely against the Karinfag philosophy that all pokemon are viable when it's possible to have an ubermensch pokemon or a pleb pokemon, instead of say... just giving all pokemon equal strength and having that strength distributed in different ways (and thus for different effectiveness, something which EVs already achieves)
EVs are absurd too, they're collected based on the pokemon you defeat? That's just bizarre.
Either make this shit directly customisable and displayed, or don't. The annoying thing is that this generally wouldn't matter due to the RNG nature of damage calculation, but then Speed ends up being this fixed tier you need perfection to compete.
>>25389849
Yeah. I think a big part of the fun comes from how it's essentially a metagame that hasn't been explored to death by Smogon or something. Instead, you're more forced to think yourself how it'll work.
For example, the Hoenn Dex tournament, a lot of people were expecting Mega-Salamence to run rampant all over it, which led people to overprepare for it, and it turned out it wasn't all that popular. (Probably because most people realized it was going to get countered hard)
I personally ran MegaAggron to great effect. It might not be great normally, but in this particular ruleset, it's beastly.
>>25388304
random rng elements do negatively affect how competitively the game can be played. IVs just add a barrier the new players must overcome to be able to get into proper competitive play on the cart and i'd rather just play on a simulator if the alternative is spending a bunch of breeding to get a pokemon that's usable in a competitive setting.
flinching is fine as it currently is, but something should be done to remove serene grace paraflinch abuse from jirachi and togekiss.
confusion should be changed such that it can't be used to abuse the rng to win matches. something like a pokemon still using the move it was going to use when it hits itself in confusion.
the only effect that paralysis should have is reducing the speed of the paralyzed pokemon to 1/4 of its original value. this is a good enough effect on its own without the chance of a pokemon randomly not being able to move.
attract is highly situational and should probably be changed to be less reliant on rng, but isn't good enough as it is to worry about.
and regarding missing, all types should have reliable physical and special stabs with 100% accuracy and at least 80bp. there is no reason why rock should only have rock slide at 75bp and 95% acc and stone edge at 120bp at 80% acc. these moves are fine and should be kept, but why wouldn't there be a 100% accuracy physical rock move with a good bp?
i dont know why pokemon fans are so opposed to the removal of rng elements in competitive environments. it just makes the game inherently less competitive
>>25390068
That's not entirely true though.
A part of Pokemon is, for better or for worse, it's randomness. As it's not a game that's MEANT for competitive play, it shouldn't be an issue.
So rather, the issue isn't the game. It's the players. Why do they play a game competitively that's bad in terms of competitive play?
Remember, if a game is degenerate as a competitive game, it's not going to end up being played competitively, eventually.
But Pokemon holds up. Why? Because despite having elements of luck, a game can be competitive. Maybe even because it has those bits of luck.
See, something I've said for years is that luck is a skill. Not in the sense that you can master your luck. But you can minimize the impact luck has on you. A lot of players don't do this, and instead complain about how luck fucked them over.
If you, you know, actually battle then IVs do help in customizing spreads. The Cresselia on ShadeVIERA's 2015 World's winning team ran 19 Speed IVs to outspeed base 60s, but still underspeed base 70's in TR.
>>25389893
>EVs are absurd too, they're collected based on the pokemon you defeat? That's just bizarre.
I think it's something to do with "growing from training".
>>25390164
pokemon is obviously played competitively and therefore holds as a competitive game, but that doesn't somehow mean that rng is an inherently uncompetitive element in the game. most fps games are still played competitively even though most maps are asymmetrical.
im just saying that the rng elements of pokemon take away from how competitively it can be played because it makes it such that worse players/players that are playing badly can still win a match against a better player because of a critical hit or spamming scald hoping for a burn on the better player's win condition. that doesnt mean i dont like pokemon; i stopped playing it competitively because of how prominent rng is, but i still play in game all the time, but rng in the form of crits has even killed many of my pokemon in nuzlockes.
>>25390211
On paper it's fine but it can mean that if you say, took your team to grind in an area full of the same pokemon, they'd end up with a spike of some dumb stat they don't need.
It would be far more reasonable for each pokemon to have a specific EV spread it naturally develops (which compliments its abilities) and then you can alter it with Calcium/Zinc etc.
X/Y sucked but being able to customise my starter's entire EV spread at Level 5 with Super Training was really nice.
>>25388294
IV's are flawed but EV's are fine, it add's a thoughtful part of teambuilding
>>25390345
But EVs mean you can't make a team while also beating the game, as you have to fight all kinds of random Pokemon to progress.
>>25390383
Yeah but unlike IVs, EVs are actually resettable.
Remove IVs
Tutor for hidden powers
Natures, egg moves, and abilities are enough to breed for.
>>25390386
Like, legally? Or is it a glitch?
Absolutely
Why? It's a shitty mechanic that involves no variation in battle against anyone who knows how the game works and will be all 31 IVs. On top of that, IVs are extreme busy work, way worse than EVs
>>25388323
>ignoring EVs
Desperate
>>25390450
Reset bags and specific berries.
Please at the very least make legendaries guaranteed 6 IV, especially if your official format pushes the use of legendaries so much
Yes. They don't affect casual play and every competitive player breeds for or injects the same IVs anyway so in the end the pokemon aren't really differentiated or unique. With them gone the lazy players who complain about MUH BIKE SIMULATOR might shut the hell up and nothing would change for injectfags except that they don't have to inject the IVs anymore.
But this is /VP/ so the lazy fucks would still bitch about having to breed for nature/egg moves/ability and having to train to get EVs and injectfags would still continue to shitpost.
>inb4 breedfag
Yes, I breed, but I do it because I actually like the mechanic. I don't play competitive.
>>25388237
First post best post
Only autists like it.
They want an advantage when playing randoms too.
I'd rather use different sets of teams then breed for weeks for one good one.
>>25388761
Their "hard work" is already redundant with hacks anyway
>>25388803
Can't wait
http://strawpoll.me/6957533
What if IV's go back to being from 0-15 like they were in gen 1. It wouldn't be as good as having them disappear entirely but it would be better than no change at all.
how about changing the destiny knot to guarantee passing x amount of the highest stats between parents
I never understood this IV thing and never will
>>25391947
if you're not into online battles, you pretty much don't have to worry about it
>>25388483
I can assure you that the average player doesn't care if their Pokemon has a point above the rest. They usually catch what looks cool/cute.
