Give me a single reason to think Sun and Moon are gen 7 and not gen 6.5
Because theres never been a half-generation before?
>>25325480
Just try to not be retarded for a minute and learn patterns
>>25325488
there's also never been sequels within the same gen before but BW broke that pattern
>>25325488
Theres never been a sequel mid generation before BW2
They won't be. Pokemon has reached a point that they would polish the XY engine rather than make a new one
It will be 6.5 but the concept of gens will deteriorate from now on.
>>25325495
Patterns are not good enough evidence. Especially when Game Freak representatives keep saying that they want to surprise people.
People thought it would be godsend that we would get a third Grey version last gen so why can't the "pattern" be broken again?
Because it's not called z, you hairless ape.
>>25325509
So what gen 8 next year? beacuse third version woukld be predictable and so would remake
>>25325509
oh my god you're actually serious
>>25325529
No, real gen 7 will be next year
>>25325516
Why do they have to call it Z? Zygarde stuff can still be in the games just like Delta Emerald stuff was still in ORAS. It would be interesting they put an Episode Z in Sun/Moon and it explores Zygarde's perfect forme.
Maybe they'll surprise us by patching X/Y/OR/AS to support whatever new 'mons/moves/formes/etc they add, making it all part of gen 6?
A new Pokemon, not found anywhere in the code of X/Y and OR/AS, was just announced. Name one Pokemon added into the middle of a regional release.
>>25325863
There hasn't been.
But it was also impossible to name a single item, ability, or move added in the middle of a regional release before ORAS came out. Patterns. Can. Be. Broken. They obviously don't care about full compatibility anymore.
>>25325480
...
Because literally nothing would make it gen 6.5? If it's unova, it's gen 6. If it's not, it's gen 7. If it has a new region and an old one, we call it "6.5", but it's still 7, just like how G/S/C were gen 2 even though it had Kanto.
>>25325904
If the graphics and aesthetics are exactly the same as gen 6 and none of the mechanics have changed but it has some new Pokemon and a different region are you really going to call it gen 7? I wouldn't.
Gen 2 separates Gen 1 because there were multiple mechanical and graphical differences.
>>25325480
>Because Sun and moon aren't related to XY
>Because 6.5 would have to be XY2, Z, Z(a)/Z(b) etc version
>>25325922
Nothing arguably changed mechanically from gen 2 to 3, other than the addition of multi-battles.
Same from gen 3 to 4. All we got was new forms. 4 to 5 even less so.
We don't know if the graphics and aesthetics are the same, but even if they are, the graphics and aesthetics of gen 1 and 2 are comparable. The graphics and aesthetics of 4 and 5 are very comparable.
So yes. If we get a new region, and we get a good amount of new pokemon, it's a new generation. Nothing else has to change. New region and new pokemon are all it needs.
>>25325958
nigga you cray?
from gen2 to 3 A LOT changed, all the data structure, how IV and EV work, there's also the implementation of abilities
![183408[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MmBrPuK.jpg "183408[1].jpg")
>>25325958
>Nothing arguably changed mechanically from gen 2 to 3
...are you kidding? Abilities got added, natures got added, the whole EV/IV/PID system got revamped. It's arguable the largest change in terms of code from one gen to another gen.
>Same from gen 3 to 4
Physical/special split
>4 to 5 even less so.
EXP formula, TMs not being tradeable, ??? type deleted
> the graphics and aesthetics of gen 1 and 2 are comparable. The graphics and aesthetics of 4 and 5 are very comparable.
But both of these pairs are still very distinct. Unless you're very unfamiliar with Pokemon games it's impossible to look at a gen 2 game and think it's gen 1 or a gen 5 game and think it's gen 4. The latter especially so with the overworld sprites not even being the same style and battles having a dynamic camera.
>>25325949
>>Because 6.5 would have to be XY2, Z, Z(a)/Z(b) etc version
Says who? Is there a written law somewhere saying they have to do this? I'd love to see it
>>25325509
They split Grey into 2 games and lo and behold it was fucking shit. Now we aren't even getting a Z
>>25326017
I think the point is, casuals would look at them and go "Yeah, they look about the same", as far as graphics are concerned.
And honestly, I do agree with gen 5 looking like gen 4. It's just kinda how it is. Same engine, same look, and yes, same style. If you shown some average joe a gen 5 and gen 4 overworld that isn't the city, chances are that they'd have tough time deciding which one is older and which one is newer.
If you shown stills from any of the battles, the same thing would apply. The only reason someone would think gen 5 is newer in-battle is specifically because GF wasn't lazy and decided to add animation.
>>25325509
Why is the majoriry of /vp/ this autistic?
>>25326078
>games that actually made the region and story different are bad
>WAAAH I WANT MORE OF THIS SAMEY REHASH
This fanbase is so fucking stupid. I hope you guys aren't the same ones complaining about why Game Freak is getting lazy. Hint: it's because you fuckers lap up whatever rehashed shit they shovel down your throats so they don't need to bother producing new content.
>>25326170
But it's not about casuals. It's about how distinct they are. And even a casual would notice the difference between gen 4 and 5 battles immediately.
>>25326173
>Actually learning from history and not just assuming everything will fit into a perfect little pattern means you're autistic
>>25326223
>believing thinking Gen V will be repeated is learning from history
>legitimately being this retarded
>>25325538
I've never seen such amazing denial.
>>25326280
>>believing thinking Gen V will be repeated is learning from history
Yes. Because so far the only counterargument I've seen basically boils down to "muh patterns" and the lesson to learn from gen 5 (and ORAS to some degree with the moves/abilities they introduced mid-gen) is that there ARE no patterns.
>>25326281
The only denial is coming from the people who think gen 7 will be announced tomorrow.
They're not going to move to gen 7 already when Zygarde's perfect forme hasn't even been in a gen 6 game, Floette AND Volcanion haven't been distributed, the anime schedule doesn't match, and when there's a Souvenir guy who gives you an item that implies you can trade with another game within the same gen to actually use it. There are also two games that are still can use the pentagon.
>>25325922
As far as I could tell, the generational distinction was just made by fans to easily tell which Pokemon set is being referred to.
Gen 1 being the 151 from Kanto, Gen 2 being the 100 from Johto, etc. since saying "Kanto Pokemon" or "Johto Pokemon" wouldn't be entirely accurate due to habitation not being regionally exclusive for a lot of Pokemon.
Because if they're related to XY in any way they would make it clear in the name. Why? If a kid buys the game and finds out that it's a rehash mid-gen crap he's going to be damn disappointed. People need to be well informed by the name of what kind of game they're getting.
>>25326391
>If a kid buys the game and finds out that it's a rehash mid-gen crap he's going to be damn disappointed
It doesn't matter if it's still a new region. And possibly some new Pokemon.
>>25326370
That can't be true because HGSS for example is still considered 4th gen game even though it features Johto and Johto Pokemon.
>>25326305
>Yes. Because so far the only counterargument I've seen basically boils down to "muh patterns" and the lesson to learn from gen 5 (and ORAS to some degree with the moves/abilities they introduced mid-gen) is that there ARE no patterns.
The new abilities are forme exclusive though. A so far one off occurrence like what happened in Gen V is hardly historical.
>>25326305
>Because so far the only counterargument I've seen basically boils down to "muh patterns" and the lesson to learn from gen 5 (and ORAS to some degree with the moves/abilities they introduced mid-gen) is that there ARE no patterns.
This is literally the only counterargument to Gen VII. It works both ways, kid.
>>25326078
>Best games in the series are shit
>>25325499
there has never been a sequel before BW2
>>25326418
Why would it be a new region but the same gen? If they're releasing some new Pokémon might as well call it gen 7 right?
>>25326305
What would you do if we get gen 7 today anon?
new pokemon = new region = new gen
>>25326418
By association. HGSS came out after they introduced the Pokemon that were new in DP, so there wasn't anything particularly troubling about referring to game sets by generation either.
The problem is that there's actually a problem now with how they might not be handling new Pokemon additions set-wise any longer, but rather potentially gradually game-wise.
>>25326458
If it's a "one off occurence" then there's nothing stopping it from happening again. That's the point. There are no patterns to cling on to.
>>25326479
No it isn't. All of the bottom part of the post you quoted is a counterargument to gen 7. That's not patterns. It's just fucking logic based on the current circumstances of all the Pokemon media we have right now.
Meanwhile what do the supporters for gen 7 have to say?:
>uuuuh well they haven't made the names totally different before! muh patterns!
>>25326509
Not necessarily. If formes, moves, abilities, and items that cut compatibility with XY don't count as a new gen why do new Pokemon? My assumption is a set of games is only considered a new generation if it has a different set of mechanics and graphics from its predecessors.
>>25326516
Nothing because we're not getting gen 7
>>25326517
new mechanics/engine = new gen
>>25326509
>>25326517
Most of /vp/ is just too autistic to do this.
>>25326559
Seriously just kill yourself you fucking retard. You're literally just pulling shit out of your ass.
>>25325863
What is Munchlax?
>>25326559
>new mechanics/engine = new gen
By this logic ORAS is Gen VII since Kalos didn't have contests. BW just uses a modified Gen IV engine you fucking retard. I guess X/Y is really Gen V. Quit trying to make shit up to try to decide what makes a Generation.
>>25326605
Munchlax wasn't in a main series game though.
New starters, new region = new generation
>>25325480
I bet it's a continuation of Kalos region with a combination story from ORAS and XY.
>>25326652
This. If you think a new engine makes a new Generation see >>25326623
I'm sure a lot of you guys had dreams about this last night. I think the speculations on it being a sequel to X/Y affected me because that's what my dream was about. The footage shown just had the player models look more like people instead of chibis and Kalos was revamped a lot. No battles or release date though, that was kinda disappointing.
>>25326418
>That can't be true because HGSS for example is still considered 4th gen game even though it features Johto and Johto Pokemon.
Because you could have Gen IV Pokemon in HGSS. Pokemon are still being used as a designation.
Same with the earlier FRLG games. You could trade in Gen III Pokemon at some point, causing the games to effectively be Gen III as well.
This whole Gen 6/7 thing is confusing due to Magearna.
Forms have always been arbitrarily existent on a game-by-game basis, but Magearna is an entirely new Pokemon. If it ultimately isn't the only new Pokemon being introduced, referring to the games they appear in as Gen VI doesn't call attention to how they aren't attainable in some of the Gen VI games and were released/introduced separately from the batch of Pokemon we currently call Gen VI Pokemon.
Is platinum really that much of an improvement over diamond/pearl? I'm currently in the process of acquiring and playing all pokemon games I missed and while I could get diamond for 11€ off of ebay, platinum is like 24€, for only the catridge, case etc not even included..
>>25325488
who said there will be new pokemon?
>>25326623
Missing the point. Contests aren't a mechanic. They're a feature. I'm talking about CORE mechanics, like stat calculation, types, the inner workings of the game.
>>25326652
New engine = new generation
>>25326669
See above
>>25326698
Then why don't megas count? Because reasons? I don't consider megas new Pokemon, but consequentially they're the same shit: things with new stats and abilities, some of which you can't obtain in XY.
>>25326722
Magearna is a new Pokémon. There's no way it's being shown and not being released for 2+ years because some pussies want muh kalos rehash
>>25326714
Diamond and Pearl weren't really well polished from what I remember of it.
There was even the whole "glitch world" debacle in the original copies of the Japanese games.
>>25326724
>Then why don't megas count
because they're just forms
>>25326736
Read the rest of the post next time.
>>25326724
Nice cherry picking. You can't say the engine makes a Generation since Gen V just uses a modified Gen IV engine.
>>25325480
its gonna be z desu
>>25326738
I did. What's the issue?
Did you read the post you replied to?
>Forms have always been arbitrarily existent on a game-by-game basis, but Magearna is an entirely new Pokemon
Megas are forms, not entirely new pokemon, which is why they don't count
>>25326747
What do you mean by "modified"? A modified engine can still count as a new engine. BW calculated exp differently from every other gen: that's a core change. In BW the ??? type doesn't exist. That's a core change.
>>25326738
>i'm incorrect so you need to re-read because muh mental gymnastics
>People in this thread actually believing Nintendo would leave so many Gen 6 mysteries unsolved before hopping into Gen 7
Hello? The unused train station? The missing editor in chief? The message calling for help on the train station billboard? Zygarde in general?
I don't know /vp/oreons. It's fun speculating about new gens, but I've gotta pull out my doubt card. I seriously don't think we're fixing to hop into Gen 7.
>>25326757
It's not a new engine though. Gen V is literally just a modified Gen IV engine. That's why he have the leftover items in the games. Stop pulling shit out of your ass because you're incorrect.
>>25325504
>but the concept of gens will deteriorate from now on.
No it won't. They will always release a bunch of new Pokémon at the same time in a new game which will mark a new generation.
>>25326733
you DO realise they always show us Pokemon from nexts generations YEARS before they get released, right?
>>25326756
But WHY don't they count? Saying they're formes doesn't explain it.
You say that it doesn't make sense to designate same generations if you can't use Pokemon in the prior game. But why isn't ORAS a new generation if I can't battle with Mega Sceptile against XY players? The consequence is exactly the same as if Mega Sceptile were its own separate Pokemon.
>>25326761
I'm not incorrect.
>>25326784
But it's still new for the reasons I explained. Modified != same
>>25326785
No it won't. They will always release new abilities, moves, and items and that will be a new generation.
Oops! ORAS broke that. What now?
>>25326804
>Saying they're formes doesn't explain it.
It does. Mega Charizard X is not a new pokemon. It's a form of Charizard. Primal Groudon is a form of Groudon. That is literally why they don't count. Just like Sky Shaymin didn't count because it was a form of Shaymin, and Black Kyurem didn't count because it was a form of Kyurem.
>>25326803
But there's no "half generation" or whatever you want to call this stupid idea.
>>25326817
But what I'm saying is that new megas break compatibility in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY new Pokemon do. This problem didn't exist before because you could still use Shaymin-S against DP players (the sprite just wouldn't show but it would still have new type and stats)
So why the fuck does it matter if they introduce new Pokemon and it's still called the same gen? It's not any different from megas.
>>25326804
>But it's still new for the reasons I explained. Modified != same
It's the same engine with changes you fucking idiot. It's not a new engine. Stop trying to redefine new.
>I'm not incorrect.
Yes you are. Stop being so delusional. Just fuck off with your back peddling. That's literally all you're doing.
>>25326724
Forms are inherently flexible as a mechanic. Because of this, there's no particular reason to give them attention in designating a Pokemon species' appearance as it only serves to complicate things when the entire purpose of "generation" as a fan term seeks to simplify which Pokemon are made available in which game.
Calling FRLG a Gen II game is insufficient because you can attain Gen III Pokemon in it.
Calling FRLG a Gen IV game is insufficient because you cannot attain Gen IV Pokemon in it.
You could very well make a case for the Megas, actually.
The Megas that first appeared in XY could be designated a Gen VI game with Gen I Megas, while the ORAS Megas would be a VI game with Gen II Megas. It tells you all you need to know about the status of a game and its available Pokemon.
>>25326844
>But what I'm saying is that new megas break compatibility in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY new Pokemon do.
You can change the forme and use the Pokémon, but you can't use a new Pokémon with a game that doesn't have it so it's not the same thing. One can be worked around but the other is absolutely incompatible.
THERE IS AN OBVIOUS ANSWER TO ALL OF THIS.
Yes - it's gen 7. Anyone who disagrees is an idiot. BUT those who keep saying "but gen 6 is unfinished" are right too. That's why Sun/Moon are going to be similar to Gen 2 and their remakes in that we'll be REVISITING Kalos and doing all the shit with Zygarde, the unexplained story things, and Volcanion/other unobtainables.
New mon, new gen, BUT two regions that will be playable. Southern Kalos (or whatever they name it) and the Kalos from X/Y. It makes perfect sense and ties up the loose ends from both theories.
>>25326876
Thought I should also clarify that using the term "Gen X Mega" is just an example and probably a bad idea due to the overlap it has with Gen being used to refer to basic species.
Gen VI game with Wave 1 Megas would be something better for clarity.
>>25326902
so 16 gyms and a decent endgame, a reason to level your mon to above 60, etc
>>25326902
This is the the only Kalos conclusion idea that makes sense. Too bad 6.5fags are too stupid to understand this.
>>25326912
I'm pretty sure that's literally the theory 6.5fags are advocating?
>>25326932
not really. 6.5 gen folks think that it'll be in a new region but on the same engine, maybe without a load of new mon, and more similar to BW2 than a new gen entirely.
think about the difference between R/B/Y and G/S/C and that's basically what is being speculated, with X/Y and S/M respectively. Gen 2 wasn't Gen 1.5.
>>25326932
You must not have been reading then. Most of them are saying it's just going to be Kalos because this is essentially Z. That or they're saying it's just south Kalos.
>>25325480
>This picture.
>Two games.
>Names have nothing to do with XY.
>Too much hype for it to be a third Z/gen 6,5 game.
>>25326902
I want you to be right so bad it hurts.
>>25326493
Pokemon Gold and Silver technically were
>>25327018
Me too, man. Me too.
>M-muh Zygarde
>Muh incomplete Kalos
Generation 7 is so close.
Why can't the 6.5 just accept it?
>>25325922
>new engine and graphics
>what is B/W to D/P
They built on the old engine with new aesthetics, nothing at the core actually changed. There is literally no difference there to what you would be trying to call 6.5.
How about you stop being a camel humping monkey and remember that the only thing that has truly seperated gens was news additions to the Pokedex (literally no pokemon was able to be registered in the pokedex before their gen).
So new Pokedex entries = new gen.
>>25327254
Exactly the point I was making. Unfortunately you can't make this point without a 6.5fag saying "muh patterns" because that's the only counterargument they can make.
>>25326864
>It's the same engine with changes you fucking idiot.
Then it's new. Also, remember I specified graphical changes as well.
>That's literally all you're doing.
Huh?
>>25326876
>seeks to simplify which Pokemon are made available in which game.
Which it doesn't for megas. So why do Pokemon need to be the same way?
Mega Sceptile is gen 6. But I can't obtain or battle with it in XY.
Giving specific generations for megas doesn't even fucking make sense. It's clearer just to say "ORAS megas"
>>25326889
But why does it matter? Either way it's a new thing that a certain group of players can't access.
>>25326902
>Yes - it's gen 7.
No - it's not. That's the argument. Gen 6 is too open to be closed at this point. See >>25326305
>>25327173
It's close if you consider close maybe a year and a half from now. But it won't be this year.
>>25327254
>nothing at the core actually changed
Read the thread. EXP calculation changed. Types changed internally. The fact that the games don't even directly trade should also be a sign that it's not a new generation.
>So new Pokedex entries = new gen.
New engine = new gen.
>>25325958
>Nothing arguably changed mechanically from gen 2 to 3, other than the addition of multi-battles.
Everyone look at the retard and laugh.
