I think I've realised why I prefer Kanto Team Rocket over any other evil organisations in the Gens following RBY. For the most part, you encounter the villains early in the story as they're trying to amass their power and influence before they finally can execute their masterplan, and while the same can mostly be said about Giovanni's organisation, I've always felt that Team Rocket's influence in Kanto has always been much more deeply rooted.
The grunt recruiting new members at the end of Nugget Bridge, the Celadon Game Corner secretely funding their operations, the grunts being seen wandering around freely in cities despite the serious claims against their activities, and most importantly, Giovanni being able to be the head of the organisation and still to work as an official Gym leader, all goes to show how Team Rocket is the equivalent of our modern day mafia: silently pulling the strings in the dark while still maintaining a good image up front. In our latest Gens, the protagonist had to prevent the villains from achieving their goals, but in RBY/FRLG, that goal had practically already been accomplished as Team Rocket was already powerful and influential. Your task was not to prevent their plans from being realised, but instead expose their leader and their organisation to remove their control of society.
Granted, I've definitely cherry picked stuff to support my view, but I nonetheless feel that thwarting Team Rocket's operations in Kanto is a little bit of leading a revolution against what others see as a helpless endeavour, rather than the typical doomsday scenario the other main games have come to adopt. What are your thoughts, /vp/ ?
If the topic is lame or autistic, feel free to turn it into a general Giovanni thread.
tl:dr - Beating Team Rocket in Kanto feels more rewarding since you're going up against a foe deeply rooted within society, and not just any evil group focused on achieving total dominion.
I liked Team Rocket because all their schemes were petty little shakedown rackets, running gambling parlors, and selling Slowpoke tails for whatever people use Slowpoke tails for(probably use them like Viagra or some shit). They were so serious and evil for this mundane shit the real life Mafia does.
I completely agree and that, allied to less hand-holding and some liberties (like choosing Gym order) makes me feel like Kanto (or Kanto+Johto) is the best region. I hate buggy Gen I mechanics and genwunners, but the plot and gameplay is superior.
>>24841199
>gameplay
What? The gameplay was literally "get Diglett and solo the entire game with it because nothing short of Mewtwo can stand up to Dugtrio with Slash and Dig." It was fucking terrible. You only like it because there was nothing else.
The ONLY good things about Kanto/Johto were Team Rocket and Whitney.
>>24841199
>less hand-holding
>liberties like choosing gym order
Former isn't true at all. Twitch plays pretty much corroborates it by fucking up Lance's Dragonite because the game kept spamming barrier. Of course you felt it harder because it was your first game. Later on you already experienced that shit.
On the latter, that only applies to Johto when visiting Kanto.
Gameplay on the other hand restricts too much in the case of HM slaves. And since it was the first games it's harder to have an organized bag that let's you roam without having to go to the PC over and over, losing time.
Plot wise I'm not going to talk, because that's mostly personal experience and is (mostly) subjective.
I just like beating up baddies instead of, you know, world destroying terrorists. The escalation of the evil teams has been fairly ridiculous- Plasma were a nice break from that actually.
>>24841280
Opposite for me. It was nice beating baddies once, yeah, but in a world with magical elemental creatures, you're undermining their presence if the villains don't give a shit about them.
>>24841260
>On the latter, that only applies to Johto when visiting Kanto.
Not really. There's some leeway in gym order for Celadon, Saffron, and Fuchsia. Beating Koga first means getting access to Surf, breaking the order even further... Somewhat.
Generally you can sequence break after clearing out the Pokemon Tower, since there's no badge attachments to anything at that point.
>>24841377
But that's just some free roaming, not roaming everywhere, which I hope will happen some day on the mainline games: A system that let's you choose which gym leaders you take first.
Man, this made me remember that I fucked up and went to beat Blaine first instead of Sabrina.And it was easier.
>>24841206
>>24841260
>>24841377
Gentlemen, I believe my instructions were clear.
>>24841170
>meet the villains early in the story
Doesn't this happen in literally every game? Fuck, you meet TR in Mt Moon. Most evil teams are found before the first leader.
>more deeply rooted
Headcanon. And besides, Team Galactic had bases near or in various towns, Team Plasma wasn't even viewed as evil at first, other things like that. There's nothing really to look into with the whole TR wandering around Celadon thing, they're there because they have a base there.
>like the actual mafia
Except for where, you know, they invaded two major towns for the lulz and the fact they are mostly filled with idiots (I dropped the lift key!, etc. etc.). I will give you the Giovanni as leader thing, though.
>already won
Not really. Assuming the whole M2 thing was true and they really were going after it, they did fail at achieving their goals by failing to get the master ball. Giovanni breaking up the fucking team after losing to a kid is also embarassing - if they were so powerful, how could they have been beaten that easily?
In the end, it doesn't matter - but TR just isn't very memorable, even for being the first evil team. If I was a kid, I would remember things like N's Castle rising up and the fight with N and Ghetsis, or the fight with Cyrus and Giratina. TR honestly felt like a few extra koffings and zubats I had to beat.
>>24841197
People eat slowpoke tails. They drip a tasty sugary sap out the tip that they use as bait when using their tails to go fishing. Apparently humans think it tastes good too.
>>24841170
well duh
Team Rocket is based on the yakuza
>>24841170
I liked team rocket better because their goals were more simple and believable.
>get money
>get power
>become powerful
Nothing crazy about becoming god or removing all the water from the oceans, just wanting to be rich and powerful.
Why do people do bad things? It's because of greed not power or world domination. That's why team rocket were the best evil team.
Will we ever get an evil organization that doesn't wants to destroy/rule the world with the box legendary?
This shit got old already.
>>24843214
>>24842968
when you have a lot of superpowered monsters running around, there are going to be people who aim for something a little higher
like, imagine if pokemon existed in our world. do you seriously think men like hitler, alexander the great, thomas jefferson, napoleon, etc would not attempt to find superpowered legends in an attempt to rule the world in an iron fist through their ideal?
giovanni actually comes off as less believable since he has no real goal (apart from the mewtwo thing which may or may not be canon). despite having a ton of his subordinates scattered throughout two regions
>>24843270
>>24843270
But why would losing a pokemon match stop a powerful ruler?
>>24843305
when did I say it would?
on a side note, i realized Giovanni is also actually the biggest bitch of the series (before Archer or whatever his name was in G/S/C) since he just gives up as soon as you beat him three times. lysandre, cyrus, ghetsis, and archie/maxie are either sickened by their own actions/killed off/arrested, meaning they have a legitimate cause to stop fighting (except maybe that first one, but w/e)
>>24843356
Giovanni's entire criminal empire was dismantled twice by 10 year olds. Then years later a 10 year old beats him again while he's trying to make something happen. If you kept getting crushed by 10 year olds several times over like, a decade, you would give up too. Everything you worked for in your life, destroyed every single fucking time you try anything, by rando prepubescent children.
Giovanni actually has the BEST reason for quitting.
>>24843356
That's what always happens in the games. The evil team stop their plans because they lost a Pokémon match. Hitler wouldn't stop ruling if he lost a game of chess would he?
Team Rocket is my favorite villain team because unlike they other teams their goals aren't fucking retarded.
>team magma wants to cause a worldwide drought to make more land
>team aqua wants to cause a worldwide flood to make more ocean
>team galactic wants to create a new fucking world altogether
>team plasma is PETA
>team flare wants to wipe out all life on earth
Team PETA isn't stupid in the same way as the others but they're still pretty stupid too. Team Rocket just wants to make bank and become a dominate force.
>>24843570
I loved Team PETA because they were so retarded. I mean come on. They literally dress as white knights and yell PLASMAAAAA as they fight you.
>>24843505
He'd probably stop if he loses the game of chess against some kid with fire breathing lizards, sea serpents that can destroy cities, 6 foot tall fire dogs, a guy who can punch mountains down, a poisonous ghost, an actual dragon, several monsters (like Nidoking/queen, Rhydon or an ancient pterodactyl come to life again.
>>24843621
Plasma grunts do say the funniest shit
When it comes to dressing the most retarded though, they lose to both Galactic and Flare
>>24843414
>dismantled
are you fucking stupid
are you seriously implying that giovanni couldn't just, you know, keep running his shit, even though he lost a battle? losing a battle doesn't mean shit. sure, red manages to beat most grunts, but most just heal their pokemon and continue on. the smart choice for giovanni should have been to continue criminal activity without directly confronting red. at least with good villains like cyrus or ghetsis it's implied they try and monitor you to get an estimate of how strong you are since you beat a lot of their subordinates, but giovanni is a faggot crybaby
>everything you've ever worked for
you literally stop four things he does - getting a fossil, getting shit from mr. fuji, getting the master ball, and him trying to contact team rocket. fuck off.
>>24843505
And as I said, Cyrus and Ghetsis are both incapacitated by the end of Platinum/BW2. they would probably continue coming after you and trying to start shit if they could.
and no, hitler obviously wouldn't stop his plans. what are you trying to say?
>get beat 2 times by a kid
>"jesus my plans are in shambles better go back to the gym"
>get beat a third time
>"guess this means I'll disband my criminal organization"
gen 1 trully started all that is wrong with the franchise
>>24844127
>a kid who recently becomes a trainer beats many of your grunts, your admins and yourself
>on on multiple occasions
>fucking up your plans every time
Giovanni disbanded his criminal organization to rethink his life. The franchise didn't start to turn to shit until they started making villain teams with retarded goals, stories where a kid saved the fucking world and legends with retardedly overpowered lore in gen 3.
>>24841170
>tl;dt: I'm a nostalgia faggot.
>>24843251
This. For fuck's sake.
>>24844332
>>24843251
Yeah that organization was called Team Rocket.
>>24844127
If I got beaten by a kid thrice I'd probably quit too.
>>24844355
Over 15 years ago.
>>24844374
maybe that's why he quit being a hym leader
and just when he got back to rethink his life he got spanked by two kids and was forced to quit that too
I've pretty much accepted that every Pokemon game from now on will be some retard team trying to rule the world with the box legendary and you have to stop it. I just wish it was done better. Like Team Plasma in the end devolved into the standard JRPG cliches, but I thought their PETA nonsense and silliness was refreshing after grim gloom and doom faggots in gen 3 and 4. And I liked how all the gym leaders had an active role in going against them.
I want to see more new shit like that. Going back to Hoenn was such a chore with Maxie and Archie and their bullshit and everyone looking towards you, the Chosen One.
>"I wish teams goals weren't just rule the world like the undisputable best villain org, Team Rocket, did back in the glory days of pokemon in gen 1, the undisputable best gen with the original 151 mons we all love"
>only Ghetsis wants to rule the world and the org didn't even know about it in BW
/vp/?
>>24844437
I liked Aqua and Magma being crazy eco-terrorists
>>24844409
when did aqua/magma ever try to take over the world or anything?
>>24843251
I feel like at this point it has become a constant when they are planning a new game much like the whole "8 gyms, Elite 4, Champion" thing. Probably won't be changing anytime soon, and the worst is that they are now in the process of actually forcing you to catch the legendary in order to proceed. It worked in Gen 5 because of the whole Zekrom vs Reshiram thing but there was literally no reason for mandatory Yveltal/Xerneas catch in XY
>>24842924
>random rising castles from nowhere and fanfic general by deviantart
Epic.
>>24848106
>fanfic general by deviantart
eh?
>>24841377
I've always felt like that was an oversight on the developer's part rather than something intentional, like being able to surf to Cinnabar from Pallet.
>>24843720
If I were the head of the underworld, I'd also go into hiding before word got out that I was beaten multiple times by an 11 year old. Once a criminal empire starts losing faith in its head, it's only a matter of time before mutiny happens. He was planning on returning once he saw that his minions were still loyal to him three years later.
>>24848115
Anon is saying that the whole N storyline is Deviantart-Fanfic Tier, I think.
>>24848106
>denouncing things as deviant art tier simply by just saying so
top argumentative skill.
>>24849196
said 11 year old was also crushing gym leaders left and right, as well as the majority of the team. I don't think anybody was disputing the fact that red was beyond gifted, and neither was team rocket.
but why argue this? this is just headcannony bullshit with no base in fact. the fact remains that cyrus, ghetsis, and other such villains were incapacitated by the end of their games. giovanni just gave up. giovanni looks like a fucking pussy especially if he's supposed to represent a crime boss. end of story.
