If you're an original RBY player with high hopes for Pokemon, where do you think GF fucked up?
For me it's taking a step back after G/S and making the game easier imo. Making certain pokemon only appear at certain times was my favorite part. I thought after that, Pokemon was going to get more detailed but it didn't.
>>24799300
>Where do you think GF fucked up?
They already said it in one of the more recent interviews, they're making the newer games more easier and less story-related because of the mobile/smart phone crowd.
>>24799317
this goes back as far as DP, when people abandoned the game because the psyduck wall became impossible to pass for some who want everything told
>>24799317
>more easier
>>24799300
Gen 3. Ruby and Sapphire began the trend of removing features "just because".
>>24799317
this is proof that we need to limit who gets to breed. What happened to using your brain to solve problems? I play old games and it takes me a while to think my way through them. One game in particular I was lost in a mine for a whole day, was so over leveled by the time i found the elevator, i breezed through the game. Final boss was an immortal necromancer that kept reviving his henchmen. I was so over leveled I kept killing his henchmen and beat on him for about an hour before I got pissed off and started hitting his portal machine with a hammer and he got sucked in. Go figure. I hate this world and the generation taking over. I hope they all get ebolaids and the world is sterilized of humans.
>>24799402
I'll keep that in mind for the next old game that I play. Clearly it won't be mainline Pokemon, since mainline Pokemon has been easy as hell from the beginning.
>>24799317
>less story related
anon, I wish that were the case
RS was the beginning of the end, and I shall explain why.
First gen was the first games. Second gen was a true sequel. Third gen was not a sequel, but a standalone game in the series.
The compatibility between the first and second generation had the effect of making people feel that those games were connected (not literally, but conceptually. and literally I guess). When RS cut ties with all previous games, it cut ties with what Pokemon was.
The fact that RS was not a sequel and was not compatible in any way with past Pokemon games is why it was the beginning of the end of Pokemon. Just one reason though.
Masuda took over at this point. There's nothing inherently wrong with him, but regardless, his vision and management of the RS project was very different than any past Pokemon game. RS weren't inherently bad either, but they were the first games to introduce the grandiose legendary storylines that plague current games now. This is another problem that many agree on. Past games had us play as a regular person on a normal journey. Sure, we fought Team Rocket, but that's pretty much all we did out of the ordinary.
That's also another reason why RS was the beginning of the end. No Team Rocket. It was established as a recurring element, yet was completely abandoned in RS. Having a villainous team(s) does not equate to having Team Rocket.
The fact that only 200 Pokemon were obtainable in RS also hurt it. I remember showing my friend the guidebook (lel) and he asked 'where's Gengar?' and I told him that many Pokemon weren't in this game. He said 'that's stupid, why would they remove any Pokemon from the game?' This was yet another reason why it failed the series. This was the first time in the history of Pokemon where you literally could not catch them all (without a Gameshark/Action Reply/etc of course).
>>24799472
A huge psychological problem that affected people was the fact that Sugimori also changed his style. I guarantee you that if someone were to draw all the 3-6 gen Pokemon in Sugimori's original style, many people that hate the 'new' Pokemon would likely no longer hate them. They changed the artstyle, and again, changed what Pokemon was.
The graphics in the game were also different. Clearly they were enhanced, as expected, but the style of the sprites were just odd. Out of place. Gen 4 and 5 did a good job with the sprites (at least the still frames). Gen 3 had weird ass splotches of 'shading' everywhere. I showed a different friend RS for the first time back then, and he thought the game was a bootleg.
I'm tired but there's a few reasons why I believe RS was the beginning of the end. Hoenn not confirmed.
>>24799478
>A huge psychological problem that affected people was the fact that Sugimori also changed his style
nah, I doubt it meant something except for harcore pokefans who knew who sugimori was.
when I first played it i found every single sprite ugly, I couldnt believ that crystal was beter in that area. every new pokemon felt so weird and out of place. they really did an awful job with the sprites
but then I remember reading an issue of nintendo power where there were a lot of new hoenn pokemon in the new sugimori artwork and for some reason I felt that they really had the pokemon charm, it was just that the sprites in no way reflected that
>>24799511
It didn't matter if they knew who Sugimori was. I'm referring to the observable fact that the artstyle underwent a drastic change, but perhaps some, like yourself, weren't affected by it. I know many that were though, and I see its effects now. New Pokemon have gigantic heads, gigantic eyes, look more anime-generic than ever. That wouldn't have happened with the old artstyle.
>>24799534
>look more anime-generic than ever
That's a non-issue, as Gen 1 was anime-generic for its time.
>>24799534
artstyle has nothing to do with pokemon design. that I can say I was affected by. I felt they were taking a more "lazy" approach
>>24799511
>>24799546
>>24799559
by ignoring the other problems listed, are you saying that all the other problems listed were accurate? i want to see what people think about all of that. those are the reasons i think it went downhill, but they're just my personal reasons. i was writing stream of conscious style.
>>24799607
Too busy to give you a full response, but I just wanted to chime in and say I agree 100%
>>24799402
Gauntlet?
>>24799607
Yes, everything mentioned in this thread is a problem. And Gamefreak doesn't care because they think "constructive criticism" is equal to impossible expectations since they can't be bothered to actually try in any department aside from internet and graphical enhancements, which is in and of itself not as impressive because they still havent fixed gts, nintendo has a ton of connection issues, online battling a shit, and pokemon begin to look more generic every generation. To top it all off, even if they stopped deluding themselves and admit that it is a problem, they STILL would never do a damn thing ro fix it because kids dont care and us hardcore fans are buying the next batch anyways.
I hated Black. I hated fucking BLACK 2 A FUCKING SEQUEL WTF (even if it did have a lot of great features... why the fuck weren't those features there in the first version?!) I hated Y. I still hate Alpha Sapphire. Am I still going to buy fucking Z and Gen 7? Probably because now with megas and signature moves killing backwards compatible within the gen as opposed to after it, my AS will be obsolete.
Being a Pokemon fan is the worst. But I just don't know how to quit it.
>>24799472
>>24799478
>>24799511
I agree with these, but I'll add another point. R/S was where Pokemon as it was known up to that point died. The former games established a linked story, timeline, characters, and created a coherent world of its own.
R/S scrapped that and retconned Pokemon into a generic formula based upon its predecessors.
>The Elite four are not the top trainers of the world; every region now has its own
>Pokedex is retconned to regional pokedexes
>each region has its own gym leaders (Johto completed the original gym system: every gym was unique in that it had its own type with no repeats, leaving only dark without
>each region has its own villian team
These will be forever recycled until the series dies. each game will continue to add more gimmicks and more grandiose stories, but imo it all seems so much more generic to me than what the series first was
>>24799300
>For me it's taking a step back after G/S and making the game easier imo
Easier? LOL gen 1: Rock Type leader has no rock type move. Psychic type can destroy the entire game.etc etc
Dont embarass yourself genwunner
>>24799955
>R/S was where Pokemon as it was known up to that point died.
Actually that was Pokemon Crystal which flopped super hard because it didnt bring anything interesting to the table
>>24800107
You're retarded and clearly never played it
>>24800121
No, it was because not everyone had a GBC.
>>24799607
Well, I won't say that I disagree.
>>24799300
There have been hiccups throughout the series that have been corrected (like the "Pokémon only appear at certain times of day" comes back in Sinnoh, though it sadly leaves again for Unova), the current big mistake is Gen VI pretty much being >>24799317
Add to that the fact that they try to justify it with "older players can have the postgame" and then not putting any postgame in Gen VI other than the generic Tower clone. Didn't even bother retaining Hoenn's great postgame in the Hoenn remake because "they're Ruby and Sapphire remakes even though we drastically changed other things from Ruby and Sapphire."
>>24799300
>>For me it's taking a step back after G/S and making the game easier imo. Making certain pokemon only appear at certain times was my favorite part. I thought after that, Pokemon was going to get more detailed but it didn't.
That was retarded
If I want to play the game at 2 pm I don't want to wait 6 hours or whatever shit to catch Houndour
save that stupid shit for animal crossing
>>24800269
Go play Showdown or trade.
>>24799371
This. Masuda is a delusional money laundering fool with no integrity.
>>24799300
>Waah! My childhood is ruined!
Fuck off, Genwunner. I bet you think Pokémon Red and Blue are the pinnacle of the series even though they're buggy and filled with numerous design flaws. Pokémon isn't getting worse. You're just simply getting older and realizing that what you loved as a child isn't perfect.
>>24799472
I am of the opinion that Gen 3's lack of backward compatibility, in the long run, is a good thing.
Look at the features Gen 2 added to Pokémon. Gender, shininess, the special split. All of these things had to be derived from existing values from Gen 1 (the former two are based on IVs, the latter has to use the special IV for both Sp. Atk and Sp. Def).
Now look at how much shit they added in Gen 3. Natures, Abilities, Contest stats, ribbons, little things like Spinda's spots (though Gen 2 had Unown formes). If you made Gen 3 to be backwards compatible with Gen 2 (and thus Gen 1), you would have to make all of those things derived from the existing stats in Gen 1. And it could possibly be doable, Natures and abilities would have to be derived from IVs (imagine if modest required you to have a bad Special IV or some shit), Contest stats could just tie each stat to a Contest type and raising EVs would raise that Contest stat, it'd be doable, but it'd be messy. You now have 4-5 things all based on IVs and a bunch of impossible combinations (which Gen 2 already had, only two Unown formes can be shiny), still only one special IV, etc.
And then we have to keep using that Gen 1 data. Imagine Gen VI but all Pokémon data had to be derived from a poorly-thought-out system made 20 years ago.
Instead, they decided with Gen 3 to completely redo the data structure. We get the PID system, gender and shininess and such are made separate to the IV system, we get a real Sp.Def IV, and all those new additions work fine. Then you can have partial compatibility with future Gens, being able to move forward and randomly generate any new values added in the next Gen, though you can't go backward since the values aren't in that game. I consider this a better solution in the long run from a programming sense, it's much cleaner and gives more potential for future entries to add new things.
I imagine not everyone will agree, but that's how I see it.
>>24800398
>design flaws
name any. The game is flawless.
>>24800449
The Psychic-type
>>24799478
>>24799534
Artstyle changed in gen 2, buddy.
>>24800449
>name any. The game is flawless.
That proves this entire thread is a joke and so is OP
>>24799371
/thread
>>24800528
He still used watercolors.
>>24800467
You disliking a type doesn't means it's flawed.
>>24800646
Pokemon died because Sugimori stoped using watercolors
>logic
>>24800655
It's overpowered, one of its two weaknesses is literally glitched (not that it has any worthwhile attacking moves) and the other has no useable Pokémon of said type (and no worthwhile attacking moves). They had to make a type in Gen 2 explicitly to nerf it.
>>24800646
Initial Pokemon artwork doesn't equal all gen 2 artwork, buddy. Outside the official artwork of Pokemon themselves, almost everything else in gen 2 and from gen 2 had this style.
>>24800399
>Now look at how much shit they added in Gen 3. Natures, Abilities, Contest stats, ribbons, little things like Spinda's spots (though Gen 2 had Unown formes). If you made Gen 3 to be backwards compatible with Gen 2 (and thus Gen 1), you would have to make all of those things derived from the existing stats in Gen 1. And it could possibly be doable, Natures and abilities would have to be derived from IVs (imagine if modest required you to have a bad Special IV or some shit), Contest stats could just tie each stat to a Contest type and raising EVs would raise that Contest stat, it'd be doable, but it'd be messy. You now have 4-5 things all based on IVs and a bunch of impossible combinations (which Gen 2 already had, only two Unown formes can be shiny), still only one special IV, etc.
95% of pokemon players never gave a crap about natures and IVs. We were just kids who wanted to play with their old pokemon. And for the few who actually cared, they could easily implement a system to choose the nature and ability when transfering by using a postgame item or paying a big load of money (similar to the ability capsule in Gen VI).
>And then we have to keep using that Gen 1 data. Imagine Gen VI but all Pokémon data had to be derived from a poorly-thought-out system made 20 years ago.
That's just untrue. If you could transfer pokemon from Gen II to III, the transfered data would be stored in the same format as any native Gen III mon.
>Create RSE blank pokemon file
>Extract all the data from GS file
>Fill the blank RSE file with values dependant on the data extracted from the GS file
wow, so fucking hard
>>24800729
>they could easily implement a system to choose the nature and ability when transfering by using a postgame item or paying a big load of money (similar to the ability capsule in Gen VI).
What about when you sent them back to Gen 2? What happens?
>>24800684
>Pokemon died because Sugimori stoped using watercolors
I've only pointed out a fact. I'm not even the same anon. Amazing fallacy, bro.
>>24800729
Fair enough. But the artwork of pokemon and trainers is far more used in official products and advertisement than any other piece of Sugimori's art.
>>24800751
Shit, meant for
>>24800717
>>24800706
>It's overpowered, one of its two weaknesses is literally glitched (not that it has any worthwhile attacking moves) and the other has no useable Pokémon of said type (and no worthwhile attacking moves)
Geez, guess normal was flawed too, why no one complains about it? Oh yeah, you fuckers didn't even play the game, my bad.
>had to
lol
>>24800834
Normal was the other overpowered type, yes.
>>24800740
Shit is removed just like the special defense stat, genders or shininess were when transfering from gen 2 to 1.
>>24800847
But what about when you transfer it back to Gen 3?
>>24800850
If the nature and ability has been generated from the original IVs, the pokemon is transferable. If they have been chosen manually by the player, they're not transferable back. It's the easiest way and makes sense, since choosing nature and ability would be a expensive feature that most people wouldn't use. And the players who used it probably wouldn't have any reason to transfer their mons back to GSC.
>>24800865
That sounds kind of shitty, I can't ever send my Pokémon back just because I wanted to make them better? C'mon Game Freak, that's bullshit.
Really, if you're going to do that, you might as well just make it one-way transferable in general so you can take full advantage of the jump and fix all the imperfections with the old system without having to worry about switching back to it.
>>24799300
>easier
When was the last time you played the original games? If it's been a while playing them again should give you a perspective. They're pretty easy, handholdy, and the AI is even easier to play than the AI from more recent games.
>>24799300
It went wrong from the beginning. The games should have been about a lone hero killing monsters and saving the world, just like Dragon Quest.
