We've all seen that art of the original 1st gym leader (most likely a Bug leader IMO) that Sugimori tweeted. We know GF probably changes stuff a lot...what are your theories on things that were meant to be?
For example, I believe Dragon and Ghost weren't meant to exist in RGBY, with Gengar and Dragonite lines being Poison and Flying respectively. This is backed up by the point that 1- both those lines are the only ones to exist of their type and 2- their type specialists (Agatha and Lance) actually use all-Poison and all-Flying respectively. I think they were put in at the last minute, most likely to help counter Psychic.
>>24789184
>gengar counter psychic
>by being weak to it
Good fucking job gamefreak
>>24789184
>We've all seen that art of the original 1st gym leader (most likely a Bug leader IMO)
I havent, or don't recall seeing it, can anyone post it?
That a female player was originally intended for pokemon G/S and not Crystal and that Lyra from HG/SS was actually based on this girl, also pic related has anyone seen or have a higher resolution of this pic? It's the prototype female player of Crystal which was supposedly based on G/S scrapped female character.
It was posted in another thread and mostly hated by others, but I agree with it:
There were probably more Escavalier/Accelgor type trades and other switcheroo evolutions that were planned but difficult to implement or explain.
The Graveler-to-Golem, Machoke-to-Machamp line is the clearest example, ESPECIALLY since they both need to be traded to evolve. Metapod-to-Butterfree and Venonat-to-Venomoth could potentially have been a new way to evolve.
>>24789905
I guess Kadabra stole Haunter's spoon too, right?
Faggot
>>24789843
Just Crystal in beta, not really interesting
>>24789915
Kadabra lost mass by losing its tail while Haunter gains mass by gaining an actual body.
>>24789230
this
give us this beta bug gym
>>24789905
>Metapod-to-Butterfree and Venonat-to-Venomoth could potentially have been a new way to evolve.
Pretty sure they just switched those two so that there was a more appealing final form early on.
Gengar is Clefable's shadow
Steel and Dark were supposed to be in Gen 1.
Onix and Scyther both evolve to steel types. Scizor has an index number in R/B, however Steelix does not. Oddly, Skarmory does though.
Magnemite and Magneton were both changed to Steel type.
Steel type would have kept Psychic in check.
Index numbers are also present for Sneasel, Houndour, Houndoom and Tyranitar. Those Pokemon are notable in G/S for being accessed in Kanto and not Johto. Which is kind of interesting.
>>24789230
>>24789930
I wonder how different the franchise would be if it were released 5 years earlier
>>24790046
Hey, the little guy jumping out of the ball is the same guy as the substitute doll!
>>24789960
stance looks like Giovanni's...
>>24789952
The index number have never meant shit. Due to the sloppy coding of RBY, their code wasn't optimized for removing Pokemon, so there were loads of gaps in the data numbers. When they worked on GS, they just randomly filled the empty numbers with new Pokemon. The data only corresponds to whichever Pokemon happened to get thrown into those slots.
>>24790095
damn, it does.
>>24790079
>>24790095
Going by this art, it looks like the town lineup was pretty much the same from the beginning (except for Cinnabar Island and whatever the C is). I guess Viridian was meant to have a gym leader the first time you visit.
>>24789843
It's neat that they've always intended to have a female player character from the beginning. I'm guessing data restrictions!were the reason for RBY and GS not to have the option?
There was this guy that posted here a long time ago about the development of XY. That Fairy-type was basically Aliens (explained Valerie design), that the mechanical thing that Lysandre uses was made by Clemont and other stuff. Wish we had the achive to find it.
>>24790123
Wasn't it due to the limitations of the hardware?
I guess it was a good call that this didn't come out in 1991
I love these threads.
The development of Pokemon in it's early stages is so interesting.
I wonder exactly how much proto stuff there is we haven't seen.
Damn Nintendo and their keeping secrets
>>24790160
It's a shame that the developers so rarely talk about it.
>>24790072
That's beta Gengar
>>24790172
Maybe it is what is keeping the franchise alive. They are holding all these secrets and leaking them every now and again
>>24790170
The PP mechanics were originally going to be closer to a generic mana pool. That's what the TP is. Technique Points, maybe.
Also the Special stat looks like it was originally "Intellect"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N8m0JM4xCio
Anyone got interview links?I'm on mobile right now and heading to class, but I'll post some interviews when I get back.
>>24790046
The trainer is trying to buy a Lapras from the monster dealer.
I wonder if there is a lot of proto stuff from the anime
>>24790208
Please keep the ashnime away from the thread.
>>24790174
>>24790193
I seriously want to know what the deal with these was. I don't think GF has ever acknowledged their existence.
>>24789950
It's like poetry
>>24789952
M8 everyone knows genII was just cut content they couldn't or didn't put in the first game, which was then thrown together as a new game when Pokemon blew up in popularity
Love these threads
>>24790179
is that real? i've never seen it before
>>24790105
You're 100% right but it's worth noting that Gen 1 was indeed supposed to have more than 151 Pokemon according to Shigeki Morimoto.
Steel and Dark being in Gen 1 though? Nah, they've explicitly stated those were added to balance out Psychic which was overpowered. They have no place in Gen 1.
>>24790223
A long time ago, I heard these were pictures drawn by someone at the Spaceworld event, of what the Pokémon looked like from their sprites, but I've never seen any confirmation.
>>24790179
I never seen this one before, if it' real then that explains why Persian has a jewel on its forehead while Meowth has a coin instead, maybe both were supposed to have jewels.
>>24790271
>>24790235
Honestly I'm not sure, I found it on one of these threads a few years back (a "post beta art" thread). I assume its real, just not drawn by Sugimori. Maybe Atsuko Nishida drew it? Looks more like her old style from gen 1 era.
>>24790255
No, that's exactly the case. There's no footage of the Spaceworld Gen 2 demo anywhere on the internet to confirm their existence.
>>24790302
It's a real big shame, I'd kill to see footage of the full demo, but it just literally doesn't exist. I wonder if any of the demo carts still exist.
>>24790315
There's gotta be footage of it out there somewhere, but it'll probably never see the light of day.
>>24790163
>>24790161
>>24790273
one of the reasons i'm not liking pokemon as i did is because it has been turning less artistic, and lost his japanese aura, not only in the designs.
>>24790298
I wonder how complete were the areas of those screenshots (assuming they're not mock up screens) because they don't look like any areas of the final game, also that Goldenrod Radio Tower Proto has some charm and does the gate on the left, Also the Ruins of Alph look better (on the outside), that water tile is the one from Yellow.
>>24790302
>>24790315
A few months ago I read by a guy who was compiling data about gen 2 beta that by Spaceworld the games were about 80% completed but I don't know if that fully confirmed,
>>24789843
thats a weird loss edit
>>24790153
Although this guy and its evolutions was replaced by what we come to known(and love) as Weedle Gamefreak could have retouched them up and re-released them in X&Y as a more "refined" and parallel to Weedle, also that final evo looks cool, Bug/Fighting perhaps?
>>24790163
That Magneton looks amazing.
This was always a favorite of mine
>>24790172
Seriously. I'd love an art book of unused/later developed Pokemon concepts and designs. Maybe not unseen unused Pokemon because they might want to use them again, but definitely old revisions of Pokemon.
>>24790298
What's the tenth pokemon from the left on an upper frame?
>>24789915
That actually kind ofmakes sense. woah...
>>24790647
Oh yesss.
As for unused Pokemon, I've always been curious about this Dolly the sheep poke they planned but dropped cause of cloning controversies.
>>24790772
Goldeen.
A lot of people believe this was the inspiration for Tirtouga.
I doubt it, but who knows.
>>24790803
Posting for relevance. I drew this immediately after it was announced. I named it Dollamb (Psychic-type) and has X and Y chromosomes on its body. I also drew an evolution for it named Ramozome.
>>24790850
Shit. Forgot picture. Also wanted to mention that it's body is transparent similar to the Solosis line.
>>24790850
>>24790859
>>24789905
lf Slopoke was made today, he'd probably evolve via Shelder trade or in the party like Mantyke
>>24789952
l always taught Scizor was meant to be a stand alone Pokemon. lt evolving from Scyther never made sense
>>24790170
That dragoon just looks like a simple place holder
>>24790161
They have their names written under them, and their mostly the same as the finished product, but Morty's name here is Enoki, when his finished name is Matsuba,
>>24790170
The stats were a bit different. Along with HP and TP, there's Strength, Speed, Intellect, and Defense. It also has Fire Breath as a "special move". Did Pokemon have unique moves outside their regular moves or something?
>>24790298
It's kind of interesting that the types are written in kanji here, since all official material after this always write types in kana, even if the rest of the writing uses kanji. This was back before Pokemon inc. always made things as uniform as possible.
>>24790384
There's a couple of unused map data in the GS rom that shows that some cities went through revisions before the final game so it's probably safe to assume they weren't all just mock ups.
Pic related is Lake of Rage from when it was possibly planned to be a city, which would be why it can be flown to in GSC.
>>24789184
Just saying; Gen 1 Lance used 2 pokemon which were not Flying. He used 3 Flying 3 Dragon.
It was Gen 2 Lance that was actually a Flying-type specialist; not Dragon.
>>24790208
Pretty much all of the movie PVs are really.
>>24791013
>>24790980
>Lake of rage could have been a city
>Instead we just got a small maze and Mahoghany town (apart from the shop and gym) is empty.
>most likely to help counter Psychic
Lol too bad they made ghost a physical type and dragon not resist ghost. I don't think you understand 1st gen mechanics my friend
>>24790161
main char design in GS is 10/10 would actually go on adventures with that clothing and equipment again
>>24790980
I had forgotten about the unused maps in G/S, so the ones on those screens are probably even earlier versions of those.
>>24791049
Maybe that's why Mahoghany town is so empty because the other half lived on the now non-existent Lake of Rage Town.
>>24791049
Probably a good thing Lake of Rage wasn't a city. Think about it... What is the Lake of Rage known for?
>>24791009
YES DIPSHIT AND THOSE 3 DRAGONS ARE FROM THE SAME LINE, AND WERE PROBABLY MEANT TO BE FLYING TYPES DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW? DONT FORGET TO DO YOUR DISSERTATION PROPOSAL FUCKHEAD NIGHT NIGHT.
>>24790208
This is an early trailer of movie 3 and you can see it full on one of the japanese dvds, cant remember if movie 2 or 3.
I know because i have it.
>>24790839
From the sugimori artwork we know that these were just " fanart" from him, not meant to be official
That would imply that tyranitar was designed by him, since the warly concept and the final stage are almost the same
>>24790145
And did you actually believe him? There are a lot of people who lie here
From the 69th ep. Photo behind Misty might be a beta Buizel.
>>24791418
It just made sense with a lot of stuff in XY and it was pretty long. Didn't really looked like something made up.
>>24790431
Ledian
>>24791424
Oh shit.
>>24791424
that just looks like a koi fish
>>24791523
Nah man. Limbs, not fins. Also, head turns up for a pointed snout, rather than a rounded beak- like on koi.
Besides, Seaking are koi.
>>24791424
DRAWFAGS PLS
>>24789950
Except it's not. They were just drawn by the same guy so there's going to be some stylistic similarities. Same with butterfree and venonat. They're just sugi doing a generic bugface.
>>24790046
Probably a little bit grittier. As is, most of that stuff has been phased out by now. Predation mentions in the pokedex, the trainer types with whips, buying pokemon, etc.
>>24791579
Tried it
>>24790936
This always bothered me about slowbro. They CALL the shell thing on it a shellder, but that thing seriously is not. It's probably just gen 1 sloppiness and they didn't have any other shell pokemon so they used the name shellder.
>>24791663
another version
>>24791019
Doubles advocate but this actually did happen, the only difference was that he was holding the prison bottle. it just turned out to be a brief minor sceneand not what it was hypes as.
>>24790208
was Brock suppose to be in the 2nd movie?
>>24790143
Where'd this come from?
>>24791719
That's the third movie.
>>24791714
>Doubles advocate
murder youself, this meme isn't funny.
the entire pikablu boogaloo that ended up getting Marril Azurill
>>24791783
Irregardless its the same difference and i literally could care less for all intensive purposes so you're point is mute per say
>>24791720
Supposidly an old image archive from a Japanese forum, it only popped up a few years back. I think it's been posted here before. Maybe magazine scans from years back?
I remember someone saying there was more beta artwork like this but it never got posted.
>>24789952
>>24790233
It's generally accepted as fact that RBY were supposed to feature 190 Pokémon. Some of these missing 41, such as Togepi and Marril made it into GS. Some of them have never made it to an actual game though
>>24789952
Scizor wasn't planned for gen1 or Pinsir would have had an equivalent
>>24790358
>There's gotta be footage of it out there somewhere
Why?
This was the 90s remember. Cameras weren't everywhere and were difficult to hide
>>24791326
>Dratini and Dragonair
>flying type
>solo flying type pokemon besides Tornadus ever
>>24790431
>Bug/Fighting perhaps?
Brave Bird: The Experience
>>24791949
irregardless isnt a word
>>24793453
Considering Dratini and Dragonair's whole thing of only being available by fishing, they could easily be Water or Water/Flying.
>>24790208
>Dat mewtwo
I don't think he was in 3
>>24790302
I wonder why. Especially since a bunch of people played that demo. You would think there would be some footage for the first sequel of Pokemon, but there's nothing. Those Spaceworld events in general had some neat things.
>>24790163
Alot of this art work is on the older Pokemon TCG
Even the art on the cards were awesome
>>24789915
Why else wouldn't Haunter have his spoon then?
>>24790163
Here's where that Misty art ended up on
>>24790163
That's a fucking cool magneton
>>24789927
Gastly line progressively gains a corporeal form as it evolves, representing a ghost slowly manifesting in this world.
Abra line gets a bigger tail, loses it, and finds some spoons.
Pretty sure they weren't meant as DEEPEST LORE trade evos.
>>24790198
>I'm on mobile right now
Read that as "I'm in middle school right now"
>>24789905
>>24789915
>>24789927
>>24790802
>>24793791
And Gigalith gained legs (2 legs, 3 then 4 legs) and leg mass while Conkeldurr lost leg mass until it needed two canes to suppport itself!
Conkeldurr's pillars were from ground up and processed Boldore in revenge for Gigalith stealing Conkeldurr's lower body bone minerals
It all makes sense now. I cri everytiem :,(
>>24791720
Serebii.net, obviously.
>>24793666
You didn't read the rest of the post, did you?
>>24790384
The spaceworld demos are from the first revision of G/S, before it was scrapped and re-done for the GBC, so it's kind of hard to say.
>>24792199
Spaceworld footage of an early version of Super Mario 64 surfaced on the net not too long ago, it was thought to have been lost but someone indeed had recordings of it and simply forgot.
Same scenario could definitely happen for the G/S demo, considering the sheer popularity of Pokemon back then there's no way nobody recorded it. We just have to wait and see.
>>24794161
Not him but irregardless just isn't word. So it can't mean the same thing. It LITERALLY doesn't mean anything.
>>24794218
the post you responded to was alluding to the fact the the rest of the sentence was also full of wrong things
>>24794473
fuck you nerd, satan has spoken
>>24790145
* The first real solid draft for XY's plotline had a strong paranormal bent, and was quite unlike anything seen in Pokemon, involving actual aliens. The main plot would involve Team Flare, whose appearance was originally intended to bring to mind classic "M.I.B."-type characters, aliens posing as weird, unorthodox humans, slowly overtaking Kalos society and plotting to destroy the Earth. Sycamore and Lysandre at one point were the same character, the former being a scientist who was exposed to a space rock, with the Lysandre-half being when the alien's leader takes control of him. Looker also had a bigger role, investigating the aliens during the main plot.
* AZ was also intended to be one of these aliens, who had traveled to Earth in the past in order to destroy it due to the violent war that was occurring, but had a change of heart meeting Floette. Living in exile on Earth as a wanderer, as he aged slower than normal humans, the plot would've had Team Flare searching for him since he holds the key to the super-weapon that can destroy Earth, like in the final version, but in this version was the flower the special Floette holds, as the two were not separated in this version but remained friends.
* Xerneas and Yveltal were also alien lifeforms initially, and were basically living superweapons, as opposed to being the power-source for the weapon like in the final version. The Mega Stones were also of alien origin, pieces of AZ's spaceship that spread across Earth when he landed, and the original idea for Mega Evolutions were much more alien in appearance, with elements akin to Deoxys suggesting he hailed from the same planet.
>>24790145
* Fairy-type Pokemon had more plot presence, an idea being that they'd be aliens from the Moon who came to Earth even further in the past and had learned to live with humans in peace, but this idea never materialized and it was decided that they simply would be a new type classification. Furthering this, Diantha was intended to be one of these more benevolent Moon aliens, their leader.
* This drafted plot was deemed a bit too weird, and the paranormal elements were rewrote into more mystical elements, which were then further scaled back due to development time ending up focused more so on the 3D models and other features as opposed to plot elements. For instance, right up until the end, the plot point of Lysandre being Sycamore's alter-ego (although simply a disguise as opposed to alien possession), as opposed to his college buddy, was still planned but they were eventually cut into two separate characters.
* The group of friends who come across as mostly extraneousness in the final version originally were intended to showcase a feature where players could form "Teams" among other real-world players, these Teams basically combining their various stats together like how many Pokemon they caught, battle scores, etc., and the NPC Friends would basically be an in-game version serving as a tutorial for this feature. This idea didn't make it in the final version, but the friends were kept in regardless to make things more lively.
>>24790145
* At one point in development, there was planned "Year of Luigi" content requested by Nintendo which was the original purpose of the Scary House on Route 14. The story the man would tell you would be the plot of Luigi's Mansion, with the game's theme playing, and in the end a Boo would actually jump out and scare the characters. The Scary House was created, but in the end the team decided the cameo by Boo would possibly confuse children who might think it could be caught in the game, and the cameo felt off, with Nintendo eventually deciding to drop the idea of placing "Year of the Luigi" content in the game. The Scary House had been modeled, and the team liked the basic idea behind it, so it remained without the Luigi Mansion stuff.
* One of the original ideas for the Gym Leaders really early on was that they'd all be based on sport professions. In addition to Korrina and Grant, who retained this idea in the final version, for example the Grass Gym Leader was a rodeo rider who rode Gogoat, and the Ice Gym Leader a surfer who surfed atop Avalugg. In the end, this idea was dropped, and the Gym Leaders had more diverse roles.
* Viola and Alexa were present in the original "aliens" draft, with Viola being a Ghost Gym Leader, who uses her camera to capture paranormal occurrences. Alexa was planned to be a "missing character" who disappeared years ago, presumably abducted. When the alien plot was dropped, Viola was still a Ghost Gym Leader who searched for ghosts on film, with Alexa being turned into a more professional journalist. Ghost was deemed too hard to be the first Gym, so Viola was reworked into a more naturalist Bug-type photographer.
>>24790145
* Grant and Korrina were the first two Gym Leaders really designed during the "sports" stage of planning the Gym Leaders , and more or less stayed the same, although Korrina was given the role of the Mega Pokemon Prodigy later on. Weirdest of all, Grant was originally wheelchair bound, with strong upper arm strength which he used to climb rocks.
* Clemont and Bonnie were switched, originally Bonnie was the eldest sibling, Clemont the little brother, but the team felt that his younger design was a bit too similar to Trevor's, so they made Clemont the older character. A lost plot point still visible in the final version, but never explicitly stated, is that Clemont had designed the equipment Lysandre uses in the final battle, its original purpose being less malevolent however.
* Ramos and Wulfric seemed to have evolved from the rodeo rider and surfer mentioned above, and aged up to stand out. Wulfric was going to have a larger role in the final version involving Mewtwo, but it was cut.
* Valerie's design is a left-over of the original "alien lifeform" idea planned for Diantha, given a weird unnatural appearance, although she's not necessarily an alien in the final version since that plot point doesn't exist.
* Olympia was one of the last Gym Leaders to be created, once the basic framework of the present main plot was created with all the alien stuff exorcised, and was planned to have a much larger role in the Team Flare plot, involving her being connected to the Legendaries, but was ultimately cut down to a flat character. She also had a more androgynous character design, but her feminine features were made more prominent.
>>24790145
* The Elite Four didn't go through any major changes that I've heard of, although Malva originally wasn't associated with Team Flare during the initial "aliens" plot, and Siebold was a younger woman, but likely changed to have an even distribution of genders.
* A few more Mega Evolutions were planned but the decision was made to drop them as it was felt introducing too many Mega Pokemon at once would cheapen the new mechanic, and the design team was a bit apprehensive over how well the mechanic would go over with fans. At this point, the team feels positive, and it is likely that more Mega Pokemon will appear in the future, with better implementation and a more risky approach towards altering existing Pokemon's play-styles.
* Fennekin originally had a more feminine design throughout all of its Evolutions (Braixen remains the closest to its original incarnation), and was intended to be Fire/Fairy at one point, but it was decided making one of the Starters a brand-new Type would offset the balance, so it was changed to Fire/Psychic. Furthermore, Chesnaught was originally meant to be Grass/Steel, but in the end was changed to Grass/Fighting, to create better balance. Froakie is probably the least-changed Starter, it was always more or less intended to be the ninja we ended up with.
* Pyroar was originally going to have more differences between the Genders besides appearance, but that idea was instead carried over to the Meowstic duo.
>>24790145
* The original Flabebe and evolution designs had much more plant-like elements beyond the flower, and were meant to actually be Fairy/Grass, but the latter Type was dropped as Grass Pokemon already filled a lot of the Dex, and it design was changed to reflect this. Floette was actually designed before Flabebe and Florges were, with the intention of being AZ's signature Pokemon, and otherwise a weird one-off Pokemon, but was reworked into the three-stage line that would be one of the "headlining" Fairy Pokemon.
* Riding on Rhyhorn was one of the first features implemented, as a way to experiment with the layout of the over-world layout and how players could interact with the new 3D maps, with Skiddo and Gogoat designed afterwards when it was decided to create new Pokemon that'd show off this feature. The feature ended up getting put on the back-burner a bit and wasn't as important in the final game as it was planned to be originally, at one point riding Pokemon was meant to completely replace the Bike, but this proved difficult to do.
* Inkay's evolution method was actually something the team wanted to do for quite a long time (a Pokemon that evolves in response to real-world motion), inspired by the unique carts used for Kirby Tilt n'Tumble and WarioWare Shake It, but it was deemed too expensive to manufacture such a cart for one Pokemon's evolution method. The 3DS' built in motion sensor finally allowed them the chance to incorporate this idea, although Inkay itself was a new creation, there had been many suggested ideas in the past for such a Pokemon that responds to motion that were quite different.
>>24790145
* Sylveon more or less was responsible for the Fairy-type. The team wanted a new Type to balance out Dragon, but had difficulty deciding on what it'd be, and how to represent it, thus it was decided to use the idea of an Eeveelution, a simplistic Pokemon that does a good job representing each Type it's given, to test out various concepts. There were many ideas, but Sylveon and the Fairy-type ultimately won, and thus ideas on weaknesses and resistances grew from there. Sylveon's original design was a bit more Fairy-like though, with actual wings, but these were changed to streamers when the team realized players might think it to be Flying-type at first appearance.
* The original Hawlucha design had more "humanoid" elements, but was deemed a bit too weird and startling, as its appearance suggested it was actually a man dressing as a Pokemon, so it was redesigned to be more birdlike and its wrestling outfit integrated into its body. Originally, for example, it was clearly wearing a mask over its head instead of it simply being the pattern on its feathers, and had a belt around its waist.
* The Goomy line, like Flabebe, was also not mono-typed at first, but Dragon/Water, but the latter was removed when the amount of Water Pokemon was deemed too much and more balance was needed. Its design was also made a bit more "solid", originally it was a bit more watery and slightly transparent.
* The idea of Pokemon being multiple sizes and effecting their stats, as seen with the Pumpkaboo line, is an idea the team has played around with for years, but have never included due to the gameplay changes it'd cause. Due to the use of 3D Models allowing size to be more properly conveyed as compared to sprites, they decided to implement it among a new line of Pokemon.
>>24790145
* At one point in XY's development, there was planned to be a town that rested atop a giant Avalugg floating on a frozen ocean, and there would be a segment where you rode atop a smaller Avalugg across the water as well, but both these scenarios never came to be, and the snow area of Kalos was landlocked instead.
* Noibat and Noivern's similarities to Woobat and Swoobat aren't completely coincidental, the designs were created during the production of Gen V as one the ideas for a new Bat Pokemon to serve as Unova's Zubat, alongside Woobat and Swoobat, and a few other bat designs which never materialized. Woobat and Swoobat were ultimately picked, but the team liked Noibat and Noivern, so decided to change them up a bit and put them in XY.
* Xerneas and Yveltal were actually switched in terms of colors, originally Xerneas would be red, and Yveltal would be blue, but the team decided to change things up a bit since Red as the primary color and Blue as the secondary color had been used already with Ruby and Sapphire (and to Americans, also used with Red and Blue).
>>24790145
* Zygarde was one of the last Pokemon implemented in the game, originally it was planned that he wouldn't appear (to the players, he'd be included for future connectivity in the data) but would merely be hinted at, but this idea was shot down due to the difficulty of keeping such things secret in the Internet age, and was placed in the game. The Dungeon he appears in was actually originally intended to be where Mewtwo was found, but in the end a new area was made for Mewtwo in Pokemon Village.
* In early stages of development, Diancie was intended to be an actual evolution of Carbink, but this was changed as Diancie's design was altered a bit more and was promoted to an Event Legendary, this was done around the same time it was decided Zygarde would be an in-game Pokemon and a new Event Pokemon was needed to fill in the gap.
>Wish we had the archive to find it.
shh baby it ok
>>24794722
>In early stages of development, Diancie was intended to be an actual evolution of Carbink, but this was changed as Diancie's design was altered a bit more and was promoted to an Event Legendary, this was done around the same time it was decided Zygarde would be an in-game Pokemon and a new Event Pokemon was needed to fill in the gap.
Literally fuck everything about this
>>24794473
It was
>>24794694
>>24794696
All awesome. Fuck GF for watering everything down out of fear.
>>24794694
>>24794696
>>24794699
>>24794704
>>24794708
>>24794713
>>24794717
>>24794720
>>24794722
You got my back, bro. Thanks a lot.
>>24794699
>ghost type gym leader based around using cameras to spot ghosts
fuck that's cool. damnit.
>>24794708
>Furthermore, Chesnaught was originally meant to be Grass/Steel
Dang, this was actually my prediction before we knew about chestnaught. Still disappointed it's a fighting type instead.
>>24794717
>The Goomy line, like Flabebe, was also not mono-typed at first, but Dragon/Water, but the latter was removed when the amount of Water Pokemon was deemed too much and more balance was needed. Its design was also made a bit more "solid", originally it was a bit more watery and slightly transparent.
FUCK THIS GAY EARTH
>>24794722
So original source was an anon?
>>24794696
I always wondered what the deal was with the friend characters because the whole "story" with them feels unfinished.
They hang around a lot early on but then you hardly see them after the 3rd gym and they serve very little purpose.
>>24795168
>after the 3rd gym
That's basically the point that the entire game goes to shit. Before then, I thought the game might actually be long.
>>24794694
>>24794696
>>24794699
>>24794704
>>24794708
>>24794713
>>24794717
>>24794720
>>24794722
Very interesting, but are there any kind of sources for this? It seems like someone just pulled it all out of their ass.
>>24790511
always been a fan of that character design it hurts so bad that we never got something like this, not even clothing option in ORAS to make it resemble it
>>24794720
>* At one point in XY's development, there was planned to be a town that rested atop a giant Avalugg floating on a frozen ocean, and there would be a segment where you rode atop a smaller Avalugg across the water as well, but both these scenarios never came to be, and the snow area of Kalos was landlocked instead.
fuggg that would have been cool
>>24795107
It sounds more like GF watered everything down so they could even release the game. 90% of that sounds like idea guy stuff compared to what's actually feasible to make, model, and balance out. Hell, it outright mentions development time being a factor, and getting the game to work takes priority over getting the game to be good and meeting deadlines to sell dying consoles nowadays.
>>24795107
>>24795375
It sounds too convoluted for the sake of being
>>24794699
>* At one point in development, there was planned "Year of Luigi" content requested by Nintendo which was the original purpose of the Scary House on Route 14. The story the man would tell you would be the plot of Luigi's Mansion, with the game's theme playing, and in the end a Boo would actually jump out and scare the characters. The Scary House was created, but in the end the team decided the cameo by Boo would possibly confuse children who might think it could be caught in the game, and the cameo felt off, with Nintendo eventually deciding to drop the idea of placing "Year of the Luigi" content in the game. The Scary House had been modeled, and the team liked the basic idea behind it, so it remained without the Luigi Mansion stuff.
Why not just have it be a haunter that jumps out or something.
>>24795375
I wonder if Z can make up for any of it?
>Ride Avalugg on water
>Fairies are from the moon
>Valerie and AZ are aliens
>TF are Men In Black
>Friends
>Multiple sized mons (within reason)
>Wulfric tie-in with Mewtwo
>Teams with online players
These could work in Z, right? I mean, fairies were never "explained" to be anything, nor Valerie and AZ. TF's goal is to sort out Earth, but their motivation was never clear. PLEASE GF.
>Diantha was originally Queen of the Fairies
>Viola was originally a photographer of paranormal activity
>Team Flare was MIB
>Lysandre was a possessed Sycamore
HOLY SHIT GF why isn't this real.
Maybe Z is taking so long because they're putting in all this stuff that they scrapped. XY's story seemed so empty and vague.
>>24795413
All of it together being presented to you in this way, yeah. But with how long XY was in development and how much of the staff was working on it, getting that many changes in from barebones concepts like "all the gym leaders are sports", then drawing Viola with a camera as the first gym leader, that already makes two significant changes from something really small. It's likely half of that stuff never made it past the drawing board after actual designs and models and stuff started going into development.
>>24790839
FUCK OFF BUTTSCAB
>>24790980
maybe all these places we could fly to were meant to be cities?
>>24795459
Autist
>>24795448
I have no issues about the leaders. It's the alien thing I find off. They can't even properly flesh out the world building on poke-earth. Alien civilizations will bring so many questions and confusion more than answers
>>24789950
my dick is your shadow
>>24795552
I don't find it hard to believe once they decided the type to balance Dragon would be fairy. I figure that was one of the bigger things to happen before even the plot was considered. Stuff like "a new type" or "new evolution of X" is top priority in everyone's Gen 7 wish list thread.
>Alright guys how do we integrate this cute new eevee evolution in the game?
>Fairy type, great, what can we use to represent that?
>Well we have Clefairy here, we can change that to a Fairy type
>That nigga's from space though
>wait
And then the entire alien thing isn't too far off if people just rattle character and plotline ideas from there. It's not hard to basically think up most of that figurative drawing board. Hell, /vp/ creates new dream Pokemon games every few threads just from anons rattling ideas off eachother.
>>24794694
This is awfully bad for a pokemon game. Thank god this is fake
Why is people believing that fake shit?
>>24795446
>wanting any of this deviantart fan fiction tier clusterfuck in Z
What about the unrevealed 7th gen pokemon from the elite 4 in x and y.
Theres the dog one, the creepy bird person one. And the badass Dragon one.
>>24789184
Actually, Ghost was programmed rather early into development. You are correct in thinking that Dragon was last-minute, though.
Sauce: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_glitches_in_Generation_I#Order_of_priority_of_messages
>People believe this fanfic tier "early plot".
If there were actual sources for it I'd give it more than a once over but there's literally nothing saying it's true besides an anon.
>all these people believing that pasta
In ORAS you were also meant to travel to mars and fight mewthree but they scrapped it because theres mewthree in that emerald rom hack and were afraid of getting sued
>Pokequest 2 was the original beta X/Y
>>24793453
Noibat/Noivern are Flying/Dragon instead of Dragon/Flying though, that should be relevant somehow.
>>24795859
>Not wanting an actual plot
>>24796596
Oh but I would love it. That's one the reasons Gen V is my favorite. But if it's to have something as awful as this, then I'd rather have no plot at all.
>>24794694
Prove it
>>24794722
>>24794720
>>24794717
>>24794713
>>24794708
>>24794704
>>24794699
>>24794696
>>24794694
Sounds incredibly fake as fuck.It would have been more believable if it actually had less details.
>>24789960
Uh, are you sure that's not just Gary?
>>24794699
> At one point in development, there was planned "Year of Luigi" content requested by Nintendo which was the original purpose of the Scary House on Route 14
It was semi-believable up until this point. Calling bullshit right here.
I like the idea of Team Flare basically being the poke-equivalent of Men In Black though. They totally look the part.
>>24794722
>* Zygarde was one of the last Pokemon implemented in the game, originally it was planned that he wouldn't appear (to the players, he'd be included for future connectivity in the data) but would merely be hinted at, but this idea was shot down due to the difficulty of keeping such things secret in the Internet age, and was placed in the game. The Dungeon he appears in was actually originally intended to be where Mewtwo was found, but in the end a new area was made for Mewtwo in Pokemon Village.
Proves that this is fake. Nintendo cleary doesn't care about people discovering secrets. Notice how in their minds before January we never knew about Hoopa.
>>24797700
That's a pretty good point
>>24795122
I also don't think it would have been a too-hard type. It meant you couldn't rely on tackle but there was a good variety of Pokemon early on for that to not matter
>>24790223
They're supposed to be two of the three playable staters during 97' Spaceworld demo alongside beta Chikorita.
>>24789184
Is there a gen 1 hack out there that tries to recreate the original RG beta?
>Uses all early Pokemon names like Manowar, Pudding, etc.
>Adds all 30 gen 2 Pokemon that were supposed to be in gen 1.
>Adds all known beta Pokemon like pic related
>Playable female character
>etc.
Does this hack exist?
And if it doesn't, why the fuck not?
>>24794717
>Sylveon's original design was a bit more Fairy-like though, with actual wings, but these were changed to streamers when the team realized players might think it to be Flying-type at first appearance.
And yet people still thought it was flying type when it was first revealed for some stupid nonsensical reason.
>>24797817
>Uses all early Pokemon names like Manowar, Pudding, etc.
those names were made by the american localization team for red and blue, they have nothing to do with red and green and the japanese names (pudding does happen to coincide with the jap name purin though)
>Adds all 30 gen 2 Pokemon that were supposed to be in gen 1.
the 39 pokemon that were cut from gen 1 are unknown, some might have been put directly in gen 2, some might have been reworked(like how the original weedle evolution became Ledian), some might have been cut entirely forever.
and no, the gen 2 pokemon that show up on the empty index numbers of gen 1 have no relation to the actual pokemon they were supposed to be. bulbapedia should just delete those names, it always confuses people
>Adds all known beta Pokemon like pic related
there are barely any that are known, and they are mostly prototypes, not fully realized concepts
>>24790170
>hp 900
we final fantasy now
>>24790174
>>24790223
>>24790255
>>24797769
>>24790302
>>24793739
>>24790384
>>24790315
>>24790358
>>24794184
>>24794210
A few years ago I was really into learning about Pokemon beta material and really wanted to find some spaceworld footage. I found this website and it worked (to a degree) when I had first accessed it. I wasn't able to view the video though (because I didn't have an add on. At the time I didn't know). I have the link, but it looks like the page is dead. Wayback Machine gives us a few snapshots, but nothing of what I saw. Maybe someone here will like to mess around with the link and the videos with it
web.me.com/celebi23/Spaceworld_97_Pokemon/Video.html
>>24798791
Actually, I was wrong. I was mistaking the layout of the site described for this one
park3.wah wah.com/~pokepale/pokeold/archive/kingin.htm
>>24798603
Supposedly this site linked above is a list of all the cut pokemon. However, the whole site is in Japanese, so who knows how fucking accurate it is.
>>24790975
Maybe akin to like Dragon Quest or something?
>>24795115
A lot of this ideas sound like the stories used in Pokéstar Studios in Black and White 2.
>>24798791
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4de7uwhoOyY
>>24790095
>>24790107
My guess is Blue was supposed to become the leader of Team Rocket and be the final gym leader similarly to how Pokey becomes the final boss in Earthbound. but I'm always looking for similarities between early pokemon and earthbound
>>24790511
this makes so much more sense and looks much more natural than latias. the color change at the back is to symbolize the fire coming out of the "jet" like quality of the pokemon. I bet that when it flies it actually leaves a trail of fire. on blaziken it just looks tacky and is there just because.
jeez
>>24790298
I like the look of the beta overworld here a lot more than the finished >>24790980. it looks a lot more detailed. look at the bottom left panel, the texture used in front of the house compared to the grass is a nice touch. i wonder why they simplified it
>>24790214
I like how characters weren't walking sticks with huge heads
Y'know, the crazy X&Y alien shot almost makes sense when you consider that Zygarde is supposed to be some kind of climate monitor/earth defense system.
>>24798603
>the gen 2 pokemon that show up on the empty index numbers of gen 1 have no relation to the actual pokemon they were supposed to be
Well there's this guy from Nintendo that said some gen 2 pokemon were planned for red and blue though.
>>24790153
You know, why did they never reuse this one? Looks like a perfectly functional design and could be a less-crappy Leddian.
>>24789952
Steelix probably didn't have an index because Onix was meant to be a single staged mon', but power creep hit it like a truck and it needed an evolution simply to not be terrible (seriously, that attack!)
>>24797397
>Gary
>>24798827
>Supposedly this site linked above is a list of all the cut pokemon.
link doesnt work. can you fix it? id be really interested in seeing it.
and yeah i removed the space between wah wah
>>24800273
well, it's a well known fact that gen 2 has a lot of leftovers from gen 1 but no one knows which gen 2 pokemon were planned for red and blue. you can probably rule out the steel/dark pokemon and the starters but thats about it
>>24794694
>>24794696
>>24794699
>>24794704
>>24794708
>>24794713
>>24794717
>>24794720
>>24794722
>all the relevant characters were actually ayy lmaos
>half the gym leaders were ayy lmaos too
>zygarde is in because they feared leaks, but they also left in all the hidden legends, hidden moves and unobtainable megas
>GF giving a crap about the year of luigi
>no source at all
>people believe this bullshit
The best thread in ages. Thanks everyone, good job.
>z when?
>>24790105
>he doesn't know about the cries
>>24794694
So AZ is Goku?
>>24799500
>My guess is Blue was supposed to become the leader of Team Rocket and be the final gym leader similarly to how Pokey becomes the final boss in Earthbound.
There's that odd bit in Silph Co where he seems to be on pretty friendly terms with Giovanni
>>24801159
wut
>>24800085
>i wonder why they simplified it
Probably was the only way to get it in colour
>>24800678
I remember someone saying that Magby, Elekid and Smoochum were all planned for gen 1. It is interesting that these days GF does seem to treat them as "basic" Pokémon as opposed to Pichu, Igglybuff, Cleffa etc who are all "baby" pokémon still
>>24801159
Go on...
>>24789184
I believe that blaziken and latias used to be one pokemon.
>>24789217
Hey, boss says we have to pt in a counter for psychic.
I ain't doin no more work. This game is finished, I'm finished.
C'mon man, he says we gotta.
Uggh, fine, I'll just hand it off to the intern with dyslexia.
>>24789905
>machamp steels graveler's four arms
sure
graveler gains/machamp loses..?
>>24790145 >>24791418 >>24794694 >>24794696 >>24794699 >>24794704 >>24794708 >>24794713 >>24794717 >>24794720 >>24794722
Okay, yeah, some of these almost seem glaringly obvious in retrospect.
I feel like they really ruined a great game secondguessing themselves so much.
>>24791664
it reshapes itself after biting on supposedly.
>>24793666
nice trips.
>>24791479
You really underestimate autism
>>24789184
ghost was way early. Lavender town is like, solely about ghost
>>24797841
it had gen 5 flying gym chick's hair stuff
>>24797501
scary house is incredibly shoehorned in though.
can you think of any other reason?
Its not like they didn't have another ghost area in the game already. the underground ruins-y areas with the punks and garbage cans was fine.
>>24799345
well, gee, I wonder if that might have been foreshadowing.
>no Dragon/Water Goomy line
>no Fairy/Grass Flabebe line
>no Diancie as Carbink's evo
Fuck GF so much
>>24790377
It lost the whole watercolored element that sugimori himself traded for more of a generic anime design.
>>24804378
Would've been cool if there was a Lumiose Catacombs area. Maybe it'll be in Z, acting as Castelia Sewers clone.
>>24804278
why are you believing this?
Arcanine gets a Mega with Pyrate
Hello STAB Extremespeed.
>>24800974
Not to mention that the idea that they switched ayy lmao type to fairy too late in development to change one gym leader's design but early enough in development to make a bunch of new fairy-themed Pokemon is ubertarded.
>>24805394
>ayy lmao type
>>24804278
You don't actually believe that shit, do you?
It's absolutely, obviously fake.
It's retarded too, but it's fake first and foremost.
>>24800974
Does it matter if it is true?
As long as the story sounds cool, it is worth hearing.
>>24807308
Well, given that almost every theory in this thread is backed up by early artwork or unused assets and they are presented as theories, making up a huge list of game and plot changes with zero evidence isn't exactly worth hearing. Even less if it's presented as the actual testimony from a developer.
There's a big difference between speculation and outright lying. Maybe we should start a fanfiction general.
>>24804184
Golem gets Machoke's facial shape.
>>24790143
yup, remember seeing this way back.
A few books teased celebi as having "streamers" coming out of its back too
>>24795914
wait what?
>>24795914
all zygarde
