Welcome to the /vp/ fake TCG set general! We are going to work hard to take each others ideas and criticize them in the spirit of the actual game.
We're currently working to create a set. Anyone's welcome to join!
>Can I contribute?
Yes, but please don't create shit cards that are overpowered or ridiculous.
>What should I know before contributing? PLEASE READ THANKYOU
This set is meant to be a stand-alone series, not to interact with any existing metagame. The general power scale we're aiming for is somewhere around the Base or Neo era (ie, 120 HP is considered high-end). Our main goal is that every Pokemon, including evolving basics, serve a purpose. For example, even Pokemon like Caterpie should have an effect like searching for more Caterpie or drawing a card, rather than simply "C - Tackle 10".
>Are these cards final?
No. But if you take someone's posted card and improve on it, be prepared to be attacked by said original poster. Some have a strict OC DONUT STEEL policy.
RESOURCES:
List of cards we're using for our Base Set: http://pastebin.com/s3JsDtH0
Card rough draft gallery: http://imgur.com/a/HxMLE/all
For card drafts: http://www.pokecard.net/ (old style)
or http://pokemoncardmaker.org/ (new style)
Resources for making cards in Photo-editing software: http://pokemoncardresources.deviantart.com/
Shit you should read but probably won't: http://pastebin.com/wvkMNzeq
TOTT: RESULTS ARE IN!
50% voted to "Keep what we have but make some changes." As such, let's make some changes. Make a poll for what you think needs to be changed.
http://strawpoll.me/6207100
Fixed Harsh Sunlight.
Imgur guys is ded, I'll will create another.
ded thread is ded
>>24786535
>anorther
>play.,
Could also use better wording.
I'd love to help, but I have no idea how to play TGC. It's too confusing for me, so I play YGO instead.
>>24786945
That's the current text for stadium cards.
Let it rain.
>>24786535
>>24787236
To be honest, Harsh Sunlight seems way too strong for Fire Decks while Water Decks do not get the same advantage with Rain.
Mainly because Fire Pokemon are Weak to Water and can make use of Harsh Sunlight's second effect.
Water Pokemon are NOT weak to Fire and can't make any use of it at all.
That's how it works in the game, right?
But yeah, the best rain usage would be a Grass/Water deck making use of activated moves and abilities.
Grass decks could run both and switch in between then as needed.
I made this a while ago, i know its op but when I was making the set all legendary pokemon had op attacks/abilities. Arceus could change its type at any time during either players turn
>>24788458
Ability is gamechanging with no setup, potentially winning or losing by itself. But it's irrelevant since we're not using any Dialga cards in this set.
We are only using a specific group of Pokemon in this set, as was determined by a vote.
This is why you don't change the OP.
These two Stadiums are fine.
We're not using the Eeveelutions because the only two that don't rely on newfangled temporary weather mechanics are improperly made.
>>24787369
Blocking the Weakness of all Pokemon in your deck with a Stadium is probably worthwhile even if you don't benefit from the damage boost. The corollary is that Harsh Sunlight is very powerful.
ATTENTION PEOPLE
Start making weakish Pokemon Tool mockups! Use Deckromancer! We need options.
>>24788685
We are using the Eeveelutions, just not the written ones from the last thread.
>>24786103
Don't cut information from the OP just to make a point.
>>24788698
Tool: Toxic Orb
If the Pokemon this Tool is attached to is your Active Pokemon, it is Poisoned.
So you might be asking what the fuck the point of this is, right?
Well I thought of a few applications!
1. Make a Breloom with the Poison Heal Ability that makes it gain HP instead of lose it when under Poison.
2. Give a Pokemon the Trick attack which could let you put it on your opponent's Pokemon.
3. Useful for any Pokemon that does more damage based on how many damage counters it has on it.
4. Include some Pokemon which does more damage when it has a special condition on it.
>>24788685
Harsh Sunlight is indeed very powerfull for Fire Pokémon, but they get utterly destroyed under rain and will lose an important advantage against Grass decks.
So it gets kinda balnced. Fire receives defensive and offensive boost under sun, but loses offensive power and defensive power under rain.
Water recives offensive boost under rain, but loses offensive power under sun.
Grass recives defensive power under the rain, but loses defensive power under sun.
>>24786535
We actually did have the weather represented by stadiums back in the RS era. Castform even used them to evolve.
>>24789081
>>24786266
>http://strawpoll.me/6207100
Polls don't lie. I think it's safe to just turn this into a fake card general and stop trying to worry about balance.
Did anyone take consideration of the Club Master cards that one guy made? I didn't save them but I think Ken and Isaac could work. Tech Sam could too.
>>24790003
Isaac wasen't the card that accel lightining even faster?
Anyway, I'm getting Lackey's Pokémon to see what I can do;
We actually need Item cards, so far we only got supporters and a few stadiums.
>>24790016
Isaac: Search your deck for 4 Lightning Energy and attach them to pokemon anyway you like
I think with it saying 2-3 would work better, or better yet just put them into your hand.
Ken: Search the top 7 cards of your deck. Put as many fire energy you find into your hand.
Tech Sam: Shuffle your hand into your deck and draw 5 cards.
>>24790016
Hint: If you think Lackey's Pokemon Plug-in has anything to do with putting this set into Lackey, you're looking into the wrong things.
>>24790073
yes but what do I do with the other one?
>>24790104
Give it to your opponent
To the absol and druddigon anon, I'm still working on them. I'm made some changes to the background code and now I'm having to go through everything and update it.
>>24790003
Isaac too OP. Ken is useless unless we have fire accel. Tech Sam is fine.
>>24790104
It's just Acro Bike.
>>24790073
>>24790124
Can we not include Acro Bike? I can't imagine a deck, in the real format or any fictional one, that wouldn't run four.
>>24790104
eat it
>>24790265
We could, but you have any item alteranatives?
So far there is only Auto-Deck Machine, that is rollers staple and Corocoro Release that is Acro Bike.
There's no DCE in this set, right?
>>24790441
Because that throws all of my balance off.
>>24789081
>Give a Pokemon the Trick attack which could let you put it on your opponent's Pokemon.
This will never happen in a collectible card game.
>>24790518
Can`t you already do it with Plasma Headringer?
Are you talking about Lackey?
>>24790474
DCE is a thing since forever, isn't it?
>>24790682
Head Ringer and Jamming Net have a special rule and a big red Flare label on their card. Other Pokémon Tools missing that rule and you cannot assign them to their owner after the easily.
>>24790690
So has Super Potion. Does that mean it's worth having around?
Had an idea for an Item.
Item - Tool Recycler
Choose 1 Pokemon Tool card attached to one of your Pokemon in play and discard it. Then, draw 2 cards.
Potential applications (Using existing Tool cards as examples):
1. You have Hard Charm on your active, but the defending Pokemon is going to KO you next turn anyway. May as well trash the tool for some cards.
2. You have Muscle Band on your active, but you won't need it to KO the defending Pokemon. May as well trash it for some cards.
3. Same as above with Muscle Band, but you lack the energy to perform your killing blow, and trash the tool in hopes of drawing into the energy you need.
4. Trashing EXP Share when the Pokemon it is attached to is now your active Pokemon. You could also then attach a new Tool afterwards like Muscle Band that is more useful for you.
Anti-Legend tech.
>>24791255
The best reason for self Tool-scrapping is so you can equip a different Tool.
>>24791283
This is terribly situational and has one charge, two if you're lucky.
The highest resolution version of this image was on a hentai site.
>>24791895
Second effect should say "type of basic Energy" because of multi-type Energies.
>>24791911
Done. How's it for balance?
>>24791895
>>24791911
"Girls"
I heard they finally found a printer for these
hey guys, heres a concept for a "New" mechanic that we could add to the game that would work similarly to the way that each new generation/game introduces a new mechanic.
LEGENDARY pokemon - can be played just like basic Pokemon
LEGENDARY RULE: You can only have 1 legendary Pokemon in play. When a Legendary Pokemon is knocked out, your opponent takes 1 more prize card.
Legendary Pokemon would have HP between 80 and 120, and any pokemon that is actually a legendary in the game would have this lable. This would help balance some strong cards (such as Ho-oh's ability to accelerate energy) and give us an excuse to make a stronger version of some other legendaries (Lugia is shit right now)
>>24792360
Already sounds like EX Pokemon, especially when all Legendaries are Basics, and you're attempting to make them stronger than the other basics.
I do not like this idea.
>>24792360
1: No EX Pokemon or any equivalent of "more stats for more Prizes".
2: Why is Lugia shit?
>>24791952
Would "Sisters" be more appropriate?
>>24792452
They wouldn't have to be stronger, just useful and worthy of being your "1" in play. your opponent can
>avoid knocking it out so you don't put another into play
>if you try to force them to knock it out, they would get 2 prizes.
general rule of thumb for them should be
>High energy costs for attacks
>High retreat costs
>no bench sitters (like the celebi would be)
>consequences for the attacks (Discard cards, damage self, can't play supporters/had played supporters that turn, attack next turn etc.)
Maybe if the HP was limited to 60-100 it would be better, but we would have to drop the HP on the current Regigigas.
Here's a quick example
(C) Arceus - LEGENDARY - HP90
(C)(C)(C)(C) Judgement - 80+
Discard all energy attached to this Pokemon. If the defending Pokemon is weak to any of the type of energy discarded by this attack, this attack does 40 more damage.
but idk, seems people don't like this idea so just forget it. unless you guys wanna try it first
>>24792499
That Arceus doesn't seem worth any special label.
Regigigas has 120 HP because its attacks cost so much Energy you take 3-4 free hits while it's powering up. This Arceus doesn't seem any stronger.
Here's a new lugia. it provides energy accel for any deck, but it's from the hand and costs a prize. maybe it should only be able to attach to a Stage 1 or 2?
>>24792550
We need Lugia to be Psychic
The Ability is broken Use Sacrifice and fully Energize one of your Pokemon on your first turn, then sweep the game with them. Did you ever play against Sacrifice Regigigas?
>>24792550
Stage 2 would be reasonable.
>>24792472
Do that.
>>24791283
Provide some way to get this card back to your hand, and make the effect optional.
>>24792612
That's pretty unlikely... since your opponent by then should also have an answer to that. And i cant think of anything that can do that in this current format, especially if we add >>24792612
To the rule. Most stage 2s dont want to do it anyways when they could just run supreme energy. Only aggron and magnezone would, and those decks would probably already be lagging in prizes by the time they can use lugia.
Seriously dunno what this boards problem w energy accel is. Have fun attaching 3 energy in 3 turns, getting KOd and having no answer to the KOer
>>24792721
We have problems with all types of energy accel here.
This meta is supposed to be slow, but i would be happy if had a chance to at least play those broken cards, because this thread is very ded.
>>24792721
I'm actually against this slow meta that was decided. I don't like the idea of having 100+ turns in a game. I get that the current standard meta is fast but I don't see any reason to go slower than Base Set.
>>24792721
The problem isn't energy accel, but energy accel with zero setup, like Celebi and Sacrifice. The Shuckle we have is "fair": G for CC, and then you're down by an Energy the next turn. You should be able to compress time somehow, but you shouldn't be able to skip it entirely.
Standard has Magnezone which is Stage 2
Regigigas had Sacrifice, which required Level X and a Prize loss
>>24792686
>And i cant think of anything that can do that in this current format
Psychic Lugia. I was going to say Regigigas, but both of them need more turns to Energize.
>>24792977
I personally don't care if there's a knockout every turn as long as every type can either do it or contest it.
>>24792998
For games with gated resources, they are easier to balance when the resources allotted each turn are small to reduce the number of possible combinations of actions each turn.
tl;dr We're shit at balancing so we're taking baby steps.
>>24792796
The guy said he'd finish the Lackey plugin if we had the picture mockups all collected by Wednesday. So what we need to do right now is find balance or design outliers and fix them before I put them into an Imgur.
>>24792654
Kimono Sisters.
>>24792984
Then make a suggestion for how to fix it. We don't have time to just say "This is bad" and wait for the guy to have another try.
>>24792984
well, you lose a prize.. so that's a penalty. chances are you'll take a prize too, though. What if it prevented you from attacking that turn? suddenly, youre food for sudowoodo. Stage 2s already have to compete with strong Stage 1s, and half the time prefer to play Supreme Energy anyways.
>>24793055
>>24793055
>well, you lose a prize.. so that's a penalty. chances are you'll take a prize too, though.
You got it.
I think if the target can't attack that turn, the effect is fine.
Made a slightly changed version of the previous sudowoodo.
Well, my thing with "Lugia" is that most everyone will tech a Lugia or two because its an easy source of Energy Acceleration that all decks can use and will use to try and get the upper hand.
The earliest forms of Acceleration that I can think of is Double Colorless Energy, Blastoise's Rain Dance, and while not quite Accleration, Venusaur's Energy Trans which is just as important. These abilities are on Stage 2 Pokemon which takes time to build, and didn't have things like Wally or Rare Candy to rush evolutions. (Though an unlimited use Professor Oak did exist anyway)
Someone was suggesting a Supporter that accelerated 4 Lightning Energy from the Deck (and 2 Fire from another). which not only is it super strong to instantly power up a card with no downside, but its Lightning specific, which means Lightning Decks would be the meta, regardless of the Pokemon in it, since they could power up so fast and hit hard from it.
I think the Focus before digging deeper is to start with Ether and Energy Trans (and maybe EXP Share) and work our way up. They're slow and would fit in well. They were overlooked in the past few years since there were better things around like Eels, Dark Patch, Thundurus EX (and its Special Energy attaching as well) etc
>>24793169
>>24793129
What if it was "when you activate this ability, your turn ends." this would prevent Double Lugia, and would also prevent switchh + retreat stuff to remove the effect.
The abillity only works for Stage 2s, so it's actually a really huge risk to spend your resources getting the Stage 2 out, then risking your opponent dropping Sudowoodo or just having an answer to your guy anyways.
>>24793169
The Sacrifice Lugia doesn't benefit all decks evenly. It benefits decks that can use large amounts of Energy to carry, and don't require specific Evolutions or other setup.
>>24793197
>The abillity only works for Stage 2s
Then post the card with that change.
>>24793169
Ether is fine if kind of sacky.
Energy Trans is classic, but who to put it on?
Exp. Share is also fine.
>>24793148
First attack is too powerful on revenge switch-in and is a permanent fuck you to anything that needs 3 Energy to attack.
>>24793148
I think Rock Smash is a bit too strong. A C for a Potential one, two, three or more energy reduction with nothing downside and prevents an opponent from wanting to power up their active as well.
It reminds me of why I hate Mewtwo EX/Yveltal EX/Lugia EX and their X-Ball attacks.
Basically, this card counters all Evolved Pokemon that most likely wouldn't have a 1 Energy Attack to attack with, they wont be able to build up to attack as you can just use Rock Smash again, and since its just C, it can be used in any deck and destroy evolved Pokemon easily.
>>24793169
also, there are plenty of pokemon/decks who don't need/cant use lugia. also, here is what i'd predict to be Lugia's influence.
Don't need: Feraligatr, Alakazam, Infernape
Can't use: Weavile decks, Umbreon/Absol Decks, Scizor decks, Purugly decks, Wishcash decks
Become viable: Meganium, Togekiss, Gardevoir/Gallade, Flygon (these cards have other issues, mostly being stage 2s that wouldn't see play.)
>>24793148
Rock Smash has the potential to be crazy powerful. Not only could it be teched into any deck because [C], but because it could stall your opponent or guarantee a KO.
I did say it has the potential though. If the Pokemon only has 1 attack that costs more than 2 energy and a retreat cost higher than 2, then it's fucked, and that is a lot of cards.
>>24793229
i guess it should just be discard 1 instead. much less broken, but still a techable card
>>24793197
When I made this post >>24793169 it was in regards to the image of the post, not with the suggestion for "Stage 2 only".
Well, it slows it down at least and limits it to a few Pokes, so its worth trying.
ok this is better. didn't remember what the old one did but i think it's better if sudowoodo has less hp/costs a C to discard.
>>24793252
Instead of discarding Energy, maybe turn it into a "The Defending Pokemon will need C more to attack next turn." Energy discarding should be a more powerful effect for an evolved Pokemon that costs a bit more.
>>24793277
it only works on a pokemon with More energy on it than Sudowoodo, and since Sudowoodo only has 50 HP, it will encourage players to use their basic stage Pokemon that do stuff like 20 for 1.
>>24793270
You know what? Keep Rock Smash as it is. Just remove the other attack and raise his Retreat Cost to 3.
>>24793336
high retreat cost is a good change, but the second attack is sudowoodo's selling point.
Things will be very retarded till we balance this meta.
>Oh no, Wailord is fucking me up with those 110 damage attacks
>I know, i'll fuck him up with Sudowoodo
>3 Energy discarded
>14 turns of Sudowoodo giving Wailord the wood
Still, it will be fun doing so.
>>24793277
>>24793336
>>24793246
>>24793229
What is with you guys and being scared of strong cards? the old sudowoodo discarded 2 energy if the defending pokemon had at least 3, so this is actually a nerf. hp was nerfed from 70 to 50 as well. second attack has been the same since day 1. wtf are you guys scared of?
>>24793297
>It only works on a Pokemon with more than 1 Energy Attached
Yes, most Stage 1s and Stage 2s. Its a revenge killer that destroys a Pokemon easily for 1 Energy, not by dealing damage, but by forcing it to be unable to attack, retreat, or do anything but slowly be whittled away.
Its too good of an attack.
>>24793386
i updated it here >>24793270
>>24793384
See >>24793350
It will turn into a long, tedious battle with Sudo always coming out on top. It's a powerful revenge killer to Stage 2's. The new card is fine, but I think the attack costs should be switched. Discarding energy is a big deal and should have a high cost. That's why it's rarely seen in the actual TCG. The only times it appears is discarding Special Energy, or flips. Any other time is hard to pull off.
here's an updated weavile. i changed the first attack completely, but the second attack remains the same. first attack was just a stronger version of absol's second attack.
>>24793393
I responded here:>>24793277
I think Energy Removal should be reserved to stronger attacks. You make it sound like "more than 1" is hard to come by. Some basics don't even get a damaging attack until 2 Energy.
>>24793406
What if rock smash did no damage like before?
>>24793406
whole point of sudowoodo is to shit on stage 1s and 2s, namely Umbreon and Magnezone.
don't forget EVERY stage 2 deck will probably just be running Supreme energy anyways, meaning the first attack won't do shit half the time.
and by the time you run out of supreme energies in feraligatr.dek, mag/ho-oh, flygon etc. youre already 4 prizes up.
New Imgur
it's missing the second thread cards.
http://imgur.com/a/bfwMd/all
>>24793461
it would take 3 sudowoodos to KO a feraligatr, and it doesn't even 1 shot magnezone. sudowoodo can't get 2 energy on it fast enough to continously make do 40 for 2. it's really not that strong you guys.
>>24793432
That's a bit better. We'll have to wait until playtesting for finalization though.
>>24793461
>supreme energy
I literally took that card as a joke and passed it off. Are we even considering of adding that card?
Ignoring Supreme Energy, setting up takes a lot of time. Losing energy is a big deal when there's no energy accelerator.
>>24793461
>balancing around this retarded meta we have
Guys, try to make a viable cards for the base set.If we keep making stuff just to counter broken stuff we make, soon the current meta will have troubles with our cards.
>>24793476
well, it's a good card that gives an incentive to play S2s over stuff like Umbreon lock, and makes all of the S2s at least somewhat playable.
>>24793500
>wants stage 2s to be playable
>also wants stages 2s to compete with a basic that discards 1 energy per turn from them
>>24793500
Like >>24793488 said
creating broken cards to counter broken cards will just create a vicious cycle and lead to a bad meta.
Instead of interesting and unique decks that we want to make, it'll end up being a Rock-Paper-Scissors battle of who's counter counters the other counter.
Here's the mockup for the terrain Stadium cards from last thread. An anon pointed out how hard Dragon gets gimped by Misty Terrain so I decided to scale it down since its best use would be preventing gradual damage anyway.
>>24793624
My main issue is with Grass Terrain.
The first effect seems incredibly hard to overcome since it heals both Pokemon for far too much too easily. You have to somehow be able to hit a minimum of 40 damage per attack to break even, and 40+ damage attacks generally are 3 Energy at minimum.
Second, the "Attacks cost G Less" is strong imo. Even "Grass Pokemon pay C Less" might be strong, but not as bad as "Attacks cost G Less".
Other problem with the second effect is that it might sway the design choices for Grass cards to always consist of "G" costs for even one Energy Attacks just so it can be free with Grass Terrain where they probably would've otherwise made it a C cost.
Also, Attacks that use specific energy are generally stronger than one with Colorless costs. Having G less is a much stronger effect in that regard than paying C less, as a GGG attack will be more powerful compared to a GGC attack.
>>24794359
As written, Grassy Terrain removes 1 Colorless from the cost of all attacks on all Pokemon. That G it provides will also cover C.
Luck-based Energy acceleration. Does not reward you for stuffing your deck with tons of Energy.
>>24794527
It does not provide G energy. The cost is reduced by a G Energy. It does not cover non-G costs and does nothing if G is not in the cost of the attack, including C.
But that's besides the point, it provided G is strong. At best, these effects should only provide C.
>>24794551
To add, I can't even think of a time where a colored energy is reduced in this fashion in the TCG, so its my interpretation of it.
I'm taking it as worded. It costs "G" less. A "C" is not a "G" in the cost, so you cannot reduce "C" by "G".
If it was your way, every card with C costs could use it, which makes it a mandatory card in all decks.
>>24794536
I dunno, Ether seems safer to use overall, but it doesn't seem bad at all.
>>24794587
>If it was your way, every card with C costs could use it, which makes it a mandatory card in all decks.
It's a Stadium. You don't need to play it if your opponent is playing it.
And in our set, only Grass-types have Grass costs. So you might as well just make Grass Pokemon's attacks cost G less. Which requires no setup and is not fair.
>>24794715
Dimension Valley?
>>24794803
Dimension Valley doesn't reduce Psychic Costs, only Colorless Costs of Psychic Types.
Also, different meta. You have to be really careful about Energy Acceleration in Pokemon since its pretty powerful.
If Energy Acceleartion is too easy and generic, every Deck will use it.
If one type has it, then more Decks will be made around types that have acceleration and ignore the ones that do not.
You really gotta be careful with how you design your Acceleration. Ether isn't guaranteed, Energy Switch takes one from another, EXP Share takes time and can be stopped by Tool Removal before it even works, etc.
But when you don't have those instant gratification and reliable options available, you start to appreciate the weaker options like these cards.
>>24794359
Yeah that's a fair enough criticism. Would rewording it so that either one G or C cost is reduced for all moves be more fair? Or just something like Dimension Valley where only G cards are given the benefit of attacks costing C less?
And in regards to the damage removal, would reducing it to just 10 damage still be worthwhile to use? Or reworking it so that you take the 20 damage off on *your* turn so it doesn't take off 40 every turn cycle, essentially being a free Potion in the case.
>>24794844
>dimension valley removes colorless cost, not psychic cost
pretty sure dimension valley removes 1 energy cost, like rainbow energy provides one of any energy at once even though it is represented as a colorless.
>>24795805
Nope. Dimension Valley just removes 1 [C] for all [P] Pokemon's attacks.
What are people's opinions on cards that are raw draw power/deck thinning in terms of costs?
I was thinking of a card that is essentially pic related from YGO, but was unsure of how that would translate to pokemon.
Was thinking of making it a once per turn card, and only while you have at least two other cards in your hand (excluding this card). Seem balanced?
>>24795950
Hand Destruction is a -1, which makes it balanced in Yugioh because card advantage is king. You can't refresh your hand with Professor Birch or something; if you drop to 0 cards in hand, you can kiss your ass goodbye.
Limiting it to once per turn makes it a weak Supporter.
>only while you have at least two other cards in your hand (excluding this card)
That is how it works in Yugioh but it might not be necessary in Pokemon.
Put it on a Pokemon as a "When you play this card to your Bench" ability.
>>24795950
We are kinda unsure about how we want trainer cards to behave in this meta. Some want it slower, some want it fast paced.
If it works like a Supporter, it's shit. Maybe Mill decks might see some use, just maybe.
If it works like an Item, it's too damn good. And Mill decks will have huge bonner and use it every turn.
>>24795998
>>24795977
I was unsure as to how to deal with it. Like you've said, it's a shite supporter, but an amazing item. I was planning on making it an item (but still putting a once a turn clause on it), but trying to make it come out as a balanced minus. So far, I'm struggling to think of a way to keep it as an item without it being OP.
>>24793464
I saved the images from Thread 2. Please get them from here and add them to your imgur:
http://imgur.com/a/NPcFK/all
Now, the issues we have to resolve, in order of importance.
1. Convert all remaining text-based and unfinished cards into proper images. You don't have to be the original creator to do this.
>Rotom C
>Chimchar, Monferno, Infernape
>Mawile
>Igglybuff, Jigglypuff and Wigglytuff
>Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir and Gallade
>Wailmer and Wailord
2. Fix the cards that are significantly unbalanced.
3. Add images for the staple Trainers to imgur. They are
>Potion
>Super Potion
>Switch
>Energy Search
>Energy Switch
>Energy Retrieval
>Poke Ball
>Great Ball
>Super Rod
>>24796156
Continued:
The current cards that absolutely need fixes are as follows (this list is not exhaustive):
>Aegislash (King's Shield)
Too powerful, near permanent control as long as you keep drawing Energy. Can be played as your only Pokemon to block Lysandre.
>Chandelure (Shadow Snag)
Shadow Snag offers too much value, removing the opponent's hand on attack as long as Chandelure remains Active. Near-permanent control.
>Igglybuff
Luck-based mechanic that draws an inordinate number of cards.
>Inverse Stadium
Doubles the damage output of all Pokemon weak to their own type (various Psychic-types).
>Kingler (Double Snip)
Guillotine is poorly designed and is either lethal or useless depending on pure chance
>Tyrogue
HP too high for a Baby. Far too powerful and flexible for a Basic. Essentially turns 1 of your Hitmons into Landorus EX.
>Wailord
Blatantly overtuned, excessive anti-meta scaling. Tanky and lethal.
>>24796765
Kingler doesn't really need fixing, it's near unplayable anyways.
>>24796988
>>24796997
They are beautiful. Thank you for putting them in card form for me. I especially love the druddigon art.
>>24795998
>tfw tech sam is here
>tfw they didn't take your shauna ideam-maybe you'll use tech aaron t-too
this is gonna be a official game right? Not just making the cards but a way to play with them, correct?
>>24798129
>they didn't
>>24798138
I said I'd make a simulator plugin if people get their shit together by today. It looks like one person is trying, at least.
We'll use CCG Lackey, seems pretty easy to use.
You guys should learn it as well.
>>24796156
Dumping Iggly/Jiggly/Wiggly
>>24798633
>>24798633
>>24798640
Mawile from text.
>>24798365
We are. It's just extremely time-consuming to actually load the cards into it, so nobody wants to do it. More so considering how unorganized our cards are, to the point where it would take another hour or two just to get them sorted and named properly.
>>24798633
>>24798640
>>24798651
>>24798772
Alright, it looks like someone's actually getting shit done for once. I'll spend tomorrow on the Lackey plug-in, assuming the rest get finished.
>>24798828
Thx bby. I'm procrastinating from studying for finals is what's going on.
>>24798862
>>24798896
Infernape's Ability is pointless and could be eliminated if his attack were simply cheaper. But if it ain't broke I don't got no time to fix it.
meanwhile, we now make the next expansion. What is the next expansion?
>>24798907
We need to balance this one first. Feel free to keep adding cards to this expansion.
>>24798896
I'm spooked now.I guess that's what I get for going off of Google images for my pictures.
>>24799042
>>24798772
>1 for 50
Your downside is avoidable by not having any Benched Pokemon (or a Bench Protection effect if one is ever introduced similar to Mr. Mime).
At 50, you can plow through most Evolving basics as they usually have between 30-50 HP (and rarely 60 HP) in one shot.
Your opponent can't set up against this Mawile and deal respectable damage to it because its just plowing through on its own. If the going is rough, you play another Mawile and let it die off or retreat to that second Mawile, sacrificing the first and just continuing on with the onslaught.
I do not think Basics should be dealing 90 Damage either. Leave that for Evolutions. Chansey had an 80 that dealt 80 to itself, and Kangaskhan had a 20x 4 coin flips.
I think these attacks need to be looked at again and adjusted.
>>24799103
>>24799136
We've got a million Mawile and only one's making it into the set. That one's either getting nerfed severely during testing or it's getting cut.
I'm calling it a night with this one. I should study now.
1. That being said, this should leave remaining to turn into proper images:
>Wailmer and Wailord
2. Fixing unbalanced cards.
>>24796156
>>24796765
3. Adding images for staple Trainers to imgur:
>Potion
>Super Potion
>Switch
>Energy Search
>Energy Switch
>Energy Retrieval
>Poke Ball
>Great Ball
>Super Rod
>>24799303
I'll pick it up where you left off.
This was definitely worth the 10 minutes it took to make. Am I the only one who's actually numbering these cards?
>>24799136
I MIGHT HAVE MENTIONED THIS FOUR FUCKING THREADS AGO
I "rebalanced" Mawile, by which I mean I threw that guy's unusable numbers in the garbage but kept the concept.
[ENERGY INTENSIFY]
By the way, ye might want to decide on a couple of tools and stadiums to add to the initial test trainers.
>>24799565
I don't like Backbite as its easy to avoid its downside for its power on a 70 HP basic. Where most other Pokemon are doing 10 on their first attack (assuming their only damaging attack isn't 2 energy) this is pumping 30s right away, for most likely no downside when played properly. Your opponent is forced to play defensive by setting up a benched mon and sacrificing what they placed first just to have a chance.
The best 1 for 20 that I can remember is Machop and Staryu. Machop had 50 HP and Staryu had 40 HP, both much easier to deal with with the smaller numbers.
The high damage for cheap with the high HP cannot go on a Basic Pokemon.
3 for 60 is still strong on a basic especially when it has no downside. Sink In shouldn't go past 40.
>>24799605
All of them. Every single one we made. Including the Sandstorm one.
>>24799745
40 damage and Retreat lock for 3 Energy on a non-evolving Basic would be what you'd get in the normal game. It would also be useless.
A lot of Basics in this set hit for 20 off 1 Energy. or 10 and a Special Condition. 30 is a lot, but it shouldn't be gamebreaking. I could be wrong; the original card's broken 50 could be tainting my judgment.
Anyone else have input?
>>24799598
I feel like we need to make a fundamental rule.
"Do not make Basic Pokemon that can, from your Bench, speed up the attachment of Energy to your Pokemon. Except if the effect requires setup, or some speed drawback elsewhere, like requiring 2 Evolutions."
Wailord. I'm not making the Wailmer because it can win the game off 2 Heads by getting Wailord out with zero damage counters.
>>24799791
I made the Wailord when we were still undecided if we were using base set or modern damage values. If I had to update it now I would reduce the HP to 140 and reduce the base damage on Water Spout to 120 with a WWWC cost. We can see how it plays out in testing though.
>>24799763
>All of them. Every single one we made. Including the Sandstorm one.
No. We've already decided that we're going to use as few Trainer Cards as possible when starting out, then slowly add more. Otherwise it would be too difficult to figure out whether a balance issue is being caused by a Pokemon or a Trainer Card.
>>24799791
Why not make the changes that you suggested here >>24799853 and change healing wave to "heal 20hp for each energy discarded"?
Stops wailord from becoming a grindfest and just becomes really tanky with it healing for about half hp every few turns. I think a full heal might be too OP.
>>24799885
Oh, all right.
Non-Pokemon that are safe enough to include, or are expies of real balanced cards:
ITEMS
>Mystery Gift
>Poffin Case
SUPPORTERS
>Dr. Mason
>Gary Oak
>Ronald
>Tech Aaron
>Tech Sam
STADIUMS
>Harsh Sunlight
>Electric Terrain
>Laverre City
>Mirage Island
>Rain
TOOLS
>Relic Fragment
>Toxic Orb
ENERGIES
>Occult Energy
Cards that seem reasonable but are suspect:
ITEMSUS
>Card Pop!
>Explorer Kit
>Starf Berry
SUPPORTERSUS
>Duplica
>Fennel's Appeal
>King Biruritchi (meta differences)
>Miror B.
>Kimono Sisters
STADIUMSUS
>Hatching Route
>Misty Terrain
>Slateport Beach
>Stealth Rocks
>Sunny Day
>Temporal Tower
High Risk:
>Corocoro Release (because it's Acro Bike)
>Breezy Stadium
>Grassy Terrain
>Lisia
>Safari Zone
>Sandstorm
>Substitute Doll
>Supreme Energy
>Voltorb Flip
Not Happening::
>Inverse Stadium
>Nikki unless someone completes it
>PP Up
>Repel because it's unplayably bad
>>24799885
>>24800051
So here's how this is gonna go down.
If you have an objection to the Safe list, voice it now; otherwise those all go in.
Pick all the cards from the Suspect list you think are unfair, and vouch for the ones you want in. Give reasons why. If your reasons are good, those cards will not be tested yet.
>>24800051
Card Pop is an aggressive version of Buddy-Buddy Rescue. Include.
Starf Berry is a weaker Ether. Include.
Misty Terrain, Sunny Day and Temporal Tower all have really minor effects. Include.
Hatching Route rewards you for not attacking. Do not include.
Breezy Stadium will be annoying to deal with. Do not include.
Fuck Sandstorm, Safari Zone and Voltorb Flip for being expensive attacks played as free Trainers. Do not include.
>>24800063
Which Ronald? The Lysandre or the searcher?
>>24800063
all the supporters are fine
take out Toxic Orb, it's garbage
>>24800063
You forgot Drake and Luminance Energy
>>24800095
I didn't notice there were two. The Lysandre is safe (and necessary) but the searcher is necessarily suspect until we can check all of its targets.
>>24800103
Drake is suspect. Luminance Energy too.
>>24800063
Include
>Card Pop, fair searcher that's one-sided with N
>Explorer Kit, no Steven in our set so it doesn't hard counter anything
>Kimono Sisters, too slow to be dangerous
>Stealth Rocks, switching is a lot less common in the TCG
>Red Chain because you forgot to include it
>pic related
Exclude
>Drake, turns relatively slow cards like Birutitchi or Kimono Sisters into rape machines
>Corocoro Release, pointless autoinclude in all decks
>>24800091
Hatching Route is a weaker version of Holon Circle that you can play around with small attacks, Lysandre or Poison. Just because it's a stall card doesn't make it bad.
>>24800157
Stacking it with stall and healing makes it almost impossible to end the game. Lysandre doesn't solve the problem if everything's under 60 and poison doesn't come with 50 upfront damage to thread the needle.
But whatever. Stall's a legitimate thing, we can test it.
>>24800051
Does Slateport Beach help any Water Pokemon at all? I don't think we have Hammers or Megaphones, or anything that would make Hammers or Megaphones worthwhile.
>>24800091
All of these, and include Luminance Energy.
Include searcher Ronald if we can find another card to be Lysandre. Like Lysandre, for instance.
>>24800051
You forgot Roxie. Pretty weak card, no reason not to include it.
>>24796997
this is literally a banned slowbro >.>
>>24800375
It's not even close.
YES
>Card Pop!
-1 that accelerates both you and your opponent's strategies. Only abusable if there's something like a Seismitoad or Vileplume lock.
>Explorer Kit
>Starf Berry
>Duplica
It's a 1-for-1 with restrictions. I think it should be fine.
>King Biruritchi
>Miror B.
Only breakable if we get something like Battle Compressor.
>Hatching Route
>Misty Terrain
>Slateport Beach
>Stealth Rocks
I'm not sure about the type-specific weakness.
>Temporal Tower
>Corocoro Release
Acro Bike is strong but not overpowered.
>Breezy Stadium
>Lisia
Depends on the pool of searchable cards.
>Sandstorm
MAYBE
>Kimono Sisters
The energy acceleration could be too strong.
>Sunny Day
Should be limited to 2-3 damage counters.
>Safari Zone
I feel like making the activation effect a smaller number like 1 would leave less room for exploitation.
>Substitute Doll
Remove the Rush-In effect.
>Voltorb Flip
Add a limit to the number of cards.
>PP Up
Could be reworked into a Tool with a more restrictive drawback.
NO
>Fennel's Appeal
It's a deck thinner that makes your opponent's next draw useless. If your opponent doesn't have a draw card in hand there's no way for them to get out of it. I feel that this is kind of suspect.
>Grassy Terrain
>Supreme Energy
Better DCE.
>Inverse Stadium
>Nikki
>Repel
>>24799598
>>24799782
Is this better?The other one was way too weak
>>24801607
Too far the other way. Recharge would be reasonable if it cost C and attached from your discard pile, since you have to energize Emolga to start using it.
>>24800402
What's the objection against Nikki?
Is the owner of the "Fake TCG General" imgur going to add the cards from this thread and the second thread, plus the real staple Trainers? Or should I add them to the Thread 2 imgur?
>>24800402
>Corocoro Release
Why is everyone so hyped about Acro Bike?
Acro Bike is literally: Draw 1 card 1 turn earlier and you have 2 cards less in your deck.
Items: 11
Potion
Switch
Energy Search
Energy Switch
Energy Retrieval
Poke Ball
Ultra Ball
Poffin Case
Explorer Kit
Corocoro Release
Card Pop!
Supporters: 7
Dr. Mason
Ronald (Lysandre)
King Biruritchi
Tech Sam
Tech Aaron
Nikki
Lisia
Stadiums: 2
Slateport Beach
Stealth Rocks
Any card that doesn't make it in should be considered for the next set.
>>24800402
>okay with Miror B, Hatching Route, Misty Terrain, Temporal Tower, Breezy Stadium, Sandstorm
>not okay with Nikki
>>24800051
I think the safe list sounds like a good starting list, although I'd swap Toxic Orb out for something. Maybe a generic healing tool or attack booster.
A Gallade to run with energy discard decks.
It's also made to run with Psychic or Fairy decks. I'm still unsure if it should remain this way or if should convert to [F] and make Assault Sword [F][F][P] and how the rest of line should be. I want to make a very versatile line.
>>24801995
I would add Voltorb Flip, but limit it to 7 cards and add the rule that you shuffle the cards back , if you don't find the desired card.
>>24801995
Can we also add Super Scoop Up?
>>24802026
I think most cards need to be reworded to fit proper TPCi standards. Voltorb Flip would have made my list for that reason.
>>24802023
Hp-100 ->90
Retreat 1->2
Fixed Assault Sword text
>>24802000
Let's just add leftovers. Without modding it.
>>24801921
It lacks a meaningful downside and adds nothing to the format. It just makes everything slightly more consistent.
>>24802042
I didn't think of that card. There's so many base staples that they would pretty much consume the list. But yeah, Super Scoop Up is pretty valuable and can be added..
>>24802167
>>24802042
Can't we only keep Scoop Up and AZ variant?
I fucking hate coin flips.
>>24802042
Super Scoop Up is an abomination.
>>24802042
No, I think that's the kind of card that needs specific testing.
>>24801842
Go ahead and put them in for now. I'm aware of both imgurs. We can combine them whenever we find the owner of the first.
>>24802199
In the set I'm creating, I used Club Master Rick to function as AZ.
>>24802311
That's already the Template from MSE?
can you share?
>>24802311
Accepted.
>>24801799
>>24801995
I didn't see that Nikki had been completed so I put it under there for incompletion. It's okay otherwise.
>>24801683
Here's the latest version
>>24802343
Sure. It's still a gigantic mess and not really complete, but trainers function at least. Pokemon only somewhat.
I tried updating the github but my laptop is being slow as shit so I'll probably have to do it from my desktop. For the time being here is the Pokemon.rar file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yb6nfj7jv7akv76/Pokemon.rar?dl=0
And please, PLEASE, read the readme. At least the "Useful Info" part.
>4chan thinks my post is spam
o-okay
>>24803203
Shiiiit. Normally I try to release the updates when they're stable. Guess I forgot.
If you already downloaded the rar, please download this file puu(d0t)sh/lQSFj and put it in /data/pokemon-new.mse-style and replace the old style file.
The rar link has been updated with the new file. It's the same link as in the other post.
I'm not confident on the numbers on it, especially on Twin Beams. Thoughts?
>>24803582
The wording on Weaponized is misleading. If you don't mind making it prolix, I suggest wording it like this:
>If this Pokémon has a Pokémon Tool attached to it, its attacks cost M less.
I'm willing to give Twin Beams the benefit of the doubt.
Techno Blast is reasonable for a 2-Energy attack, maybe a little over value.
>>24803723
So would this be better then?
>>24803834
This is good
I like this Genesect.
Alright, it's a bit late, but I'm starting the Lackey plugin. And by "starting the Lackey plugin", I mean "I'm first sorting all of the cards in the imgur, then removing the stuff that's not going to be in the plugin". I did it once, but I have to redo it. Once the cards are organized, I can get to putting them into the plugin. I'll do a once-over of the thread to grab any that had been added after I started, but that's probably going to be it. Consider "when I finish sorting the cards" to be the cutoff point for now.
>>24803834
It's on the weak side, but I say go for it.
>>24804216
Oh wait, I do have a request. Can someone very quickly remake these? The psychic faries don't bother me, but these do.
>>24804238
You remake them if you want them put in. Use Decromancer.
>>24804216
Another Imgur with the remaining not listed in "Fake TCG General":
>http://imgur.com/a/VpQqY/all
Would it be okay for an environment to have ghost pokémon that are resistant to attacks from colorless pokémon?
>>24804216
Also Alakazam was changed. The final version is >>24804665 here.
>>24804647
Just for that, Shining Weedle is going into the Lackey plugin.
>>24804665
I've noticed that some cards are missing from every archive posted in this thread. Particularly, Frost Rotom, Ferrothorn, Regirock, and a few others. I know they exist, because the first time I organized the cards, the damn Ferrothorn was reposted like 6 times so I had to delete 5 of them. I think a thread got skipped in the imgurs.
>>24804701
I found it.
https://fgts.jp/vp/thread/24736480/#24736480
There are still a few Pokemon unaccounted for, like the Regis. I know those exist too, I just need to find them.
>>24804742
You guys weren't very thorough.
>>24804750
>registeel has 100 HP
>regice and regirock have 90 HP
this triggers my autism
>>24804750
>>24804742
Shit, my bad. I only archived the second thread.
>>24804750
Iron Defense is too strong of a wall for little investment on a Basic Pokemon with 100 HP. Remember that 20 Damage is 1-2 Energy and 30 is 2 with Energy Reduction (or other penalty). So you would need at least 3 to reliably put a dent in it (and even some attacks at 3 energy aren't much past 30).
Metal Burst is too strong.
Rock Toss should be FC.
Stone Edge should be FFCC.
>>24804822
Base Zapdos had LLLC for 60 and self 30 if it flipped tails (no boost for heads). Perhaps have a penalty for hitting tails if a Basic is gonna hit for a possible 90 with no downside otherwise
>>24804856
Can we agree that our values are currently higher than base set and Neo as well? We power creeped before we even put out a card.
>>24804780
>>24804822
>>24804856
The first mockups made are the ones going into the simulator. If you want to adjust them, then make them before someone else does.
>>24804993
any objections?
>>24805203
Probably still unblanced, but nobody in the past hour cared enough to do anything else with them. Oh well, if they need to be adjusted, it can be done in testing.
>>24805203
Iron Defense needs to specify before or after weakness and resistance. With 30 reduction, it would most likely be After Weakness and Resistance.
You'd refer to the opponent's Active as the Defending Pokemon.
As written, this effect affects the Defending Pokemon, and switching the Defending Pokemon will cancel the effect, which would be fair (because the attack is reducing damage from the Defending Pokemon as written).
I feel Stone Edge and Metal Burst might still be too strong. At the very least, they should be FFFC/MMMC. Would mean that Regice's Hype Beam could go WWWC as well just to match the other two.
Might as well just test them and see.
>>24805330
what if I made Stone Edge / Metal Burst / Hyper Beam 50 instead of 60 alongside making it XXXC and Stone Edge becomes +20 instead of +30 / Metal Burst adds +20 for every 3 damage counters?
>>24805349
Too late. I finally got the damn cards organized. All 215 Pokemon. Tomorrow I can add the Trainer Cards and start the actual plugin.
I'm going to bed. There are 10 mistyped Fairies and Dragons if someone wants to work on those before tomorrow. (Circle of Friends Jigglypuff and Body Slam Wigglytuff have already had their types fixed. They ended up in here before I noticed. I don't know how that Jigglypuff got in twice)
http://imgur.com/a/RBvTf
>>24805436
ah that's fine. they can all be fixed during testing later thenI also kind of didn't want to redo all the regis because its late as fuck
>>24805436
Oh, and these 13 (including the mistyped Igglybuff) have no art. I don't care that much, but it might make identifying them at a glance difficult while testing. If someone wants to hap-hazardly put something in the art boxes, it might help.
http://imgur.com/a/VImf0
>>24798633
>>24805436
>>24805493
That Igglybuff has already been done.
>>24805493
The Ralts, Kirlia, Gallade, Gardevoir, and Wailord from here have already been completed too.
Shroomish, Breloom, Wailmer (people complained), and the Hitmons still need to be done though, as well as the stuff in the other post.
>>24805641
I was just looking through the link someone posted of the cards in this thread. Those ones must have slipped through.
>>24805641
We'll also need a new Wailmer. The Bounce one was our only Wailmer.
Bump. I'll deliver Togekiss fix, alternate Ralts line, and a few nerfs today.
Ralts- With Mankey's Peek.
>>24807312
Kirlia- With Blastoise-EX Rapid Spin and a Power to Peek and discard the top card of your deck.
>>24807322
Gardevoir, following the Sliver style of Fairy Cards.
>>24807322
Kirlia again, forgot retreat cost.
>>24807327
you accidentally Fairy Barrier anon
>>24807364
Here, thanks for pointing out.
>>24807327
Spin Blast and Psy Press should do more damage or cost less Energy. The damage resistance aura does not give Gardevoir enough power to justify such a weak attack.
>>24805676
I made this Wailmer 2 days ago, but Pokecard's server went offline.
>>24808881
It is very interesting that there is in fact a move with the name "Blubber" in the German version of the games.
In English, "blubber" means "fat of whales" and "cry". But in German, "blubbern" means "to bubble". That is interesting.
>>24808881
Okay, good work. New there are only a handful of fixes to make to various before I can continue with the plugin making. The lack of art on some isn't a huge deal, but I get the feeling there are going to be loads of complaints from stupid people if the typings aren't fixed on those last few cards.
Also, this is the official list of what I'm going with for trainer cards to start with. More can be added removed:
>Potion
>Super Potion
>Switch
>Energy Search
>Energy Switch
>Energy Retrieval
>Poke Ball
>Great Ball
>Super Rod
>Escape Rope
>Dr. Mason
>Gark Oak
>Ronald
>Tech Aaron
>Tech Sam
>Rick
>Harsh Sunlihgt
>Electric Terrain
>Laverre City
>Mirage Island
>Rain
>Relic Fragment
>Leftovers
>Rainbow Energy
It's too damn many stadiums, but whatever. None of them looked gamebreaking and there were so damn many type-specific stadiums submitted that I decided to just go with that list. Any of these stadiums that are so much as suspected of being overpowered during testing will be immediately removed during the next update, and then will need to be voted into testing like every other Trainer Card. The Team Flare Grunt-like supporter (King Buracchi?) will be one of the first Trainers added for testing, regardless of what else gets voted in. I wasn't sure whether or not to put it in the initial batch, so that's the compromise.
Rainbow Energy was added because I believe there are a few Pokemon with attacks that do something with Special Energy. I could be wrong, though. Rainbow seemed like a safe choice either way.
Remember, all of these cards are merely being tested and any can be removed during the next update.
>>24809257
That first line should be "More can be added or removed in future updates". There are going to be a LOT of small updates while we try get things balanced.
Are we missing the duotype Lampent?
>>24809572
There's a Lampent that uses fire and psychic energy in the folder ready to go.
>>24809257
What about Full Heal?
Magkneeson
I tried to make something that gets 1 Paralyze basically guaranteed, potentially more with mill, and can backfire horribly if your opponent has Switch.
>>24810204
This wording always allows Paralysis, even if your opponent has zero energy cards on his discard pile.
>>24809257
Where is DCE? DCE is required.
>>24810293
Like hell it is. It'll be brought in for testing later, like every other special energy.
>>24810159
Yeah, I guess that can be thrown in.
>>24810204
Damage from coil is dealt to currently active or or to new Active.
>>24810354
Dude, DCE has been playable in every single set since the TCG's inception. DCE has to be in.
>>24810463
>List of sets including Double Colorless Energy:
>Base
>Base 2
>HeartGold and SoulSilver
>Next Destinies
>Legendary Treasures
>XY
>Phantom Forces
No, DCE being in every format is a fairly recent thing. Prior to HGSS, it was just a card from Base Set that was deemed to powerful to reprint.
