Ash Greninja
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon
All hell is about to break loose next thursday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaWKEAU32h4
>>24782676
How exciting. More shilling for the overrated Narutoad.
But Greninja won't become Ash-Greninja. At most it will be a sudden power up that they won't get to access manually.
I haven't watched the anime in a while, but I'm actually sort of interested to see what happens with this.
it looks like a worse written version of blaze infernape.
>>24782745
>implying his fire types are well written
they all share the same backstory, Infernape just got a lucky hand because the one that abandoned him is a recurring character
also he pretty much has a different backstory
>>24782722
>But Greninja won't become Ash-Greninja.
It turns into Ash-Greninja in the clip. What are you talking about?
>At most it will be a sudden power up that they won't get to access manually.
They seem to have accessed it just fine right there.
>>24782761
Context anon.
It was an abrupt moment. They'll probably wonder what it was and how they activated it.
>>24782756
>also he pretty much has a different backstory
yeah. A worse written one.
>>24782756
The Infernape story is one of the best things the anime has done.
>>24782699
I'm glad, Ash actually has a competent water type starter for once..besides Squirtle.
>>24782769
explain anon, because throwing words just like that need to have some stand
>>24782772
It's literally the same as Charmander's start except made longer and with added angst.
If there isn't a League match where Ash use Greninja, Sceptila and Charizard, it will be the lamest thing in the showSinnoh starters need not apply
>>24782786
>except made longer and with added angst
Sure. But I'd have phrased it as "better developed and more interesting."
>>24782772
Speaking of Infernape did it even win a single battle when it was a Monferno?
>>24782793
angst doesn't make things automatically "better and interesting" though
>>24782768
>They'll probably wonder what it was
They'll know what it is because they have a village there that knows the story.
>how they activated it.
That's something that will eventually get revealed.
>>24782807
I'm pretty sure it went from shit until the sinnoh league
>>24782773
I'm just waiting for an explanation if this "new" greninja form is = to mega
>>24782813
>They'll know what it is because they have a village there that knows the story.
So far they only know of the Legendary Greninja who is the leader of all the other ninja Pokemon, it's why many of the ninjas use Froakie.
And I meant that they want to know what just happened.
>That's something that will eventually get revealed.
That's my point. They won't get it in its debut.
>>24782824
Mega Evoluton = bonds.
What is the strongest form of bond? Love. Ash-Greninja is born from what? Love.
>>24782836
>love
>>24782786
Infernape's story was actually built up upon. It was found as a Chimchar and it was established almost immediately that it had an abnormally strong Blaze ability. They have the rival using it, but training it in the wrong way for a bunch of episodes, but then Ash gets it, some more character development happens with Chimchar trying to prove itself to its old trainer, and even right before it evolves into Infernape it still has trouble controlling its Blaze ability. Then eventually it bonds enough with Ash to control it properly.
With Ash greninja it's just a shitty asspull that came out of nowhere to market narutoad more. It's completely ill explained and had no establishment in the anime OR games until now. We didn't see any unique bond between Ash and Froakie. Froakie was just a generic edgy Pokemon that was picky about trainers and for some reason chose Ash. After that it's treated the same way as all his other Pokemon and there's nothing particularly special about it. It's a poorly written mess.
>>24782824
I'm sure it will be equal to most megas in power, one scan stated that Mega Sceptile was its rival.
>>24782809
Automatically, no, of course not. But it was done well in this case. The story was done over the course of four seasons, was well-developed with some interesting plot points (released by Paul, issues with blaze, final battle in the Sinnoh League), and had a good payoff at the end. The anime isn't always good with character development, particular that of Pokemon, but they did a reasonably good job of it here.
Yeah, it was similar in concept to Charizard's origin story, but here it was fully developed over the course of a series. Just because it wasn't entirely original doesn't mean that it wasn't better.
>>24782843
>out of nowhere
except it was established at the first episode, and the quirks of his character have always been passively shown (like being a sore loser), I'd argue that's much better because it shows the character exists outside of the "episode of the character" any given anime tend to do
In fact, I can see it in your post. You say "character development" like they have to occur in a specific episode, rather than passive and existing like how characters should behave.
Also what, I don't want to pull this "watch the anime" shit but Froakie/Frogadier acts differently from his other mons.
>>24782860
I'm mostly pointing it out because of faggots like this overrate it >>24782843 like it was a gospel to something even though in hindsight it isn't so special when the show also tries things differently.
Reminds me of Tamerfags.
http://strawpoll.me/6198214/
>>24782841
That's literally what they say.
>>24782836
>And I meant that they want to know what just happened.
And again, the village is right there. They even have a drawing right there in the village of said legendary Greninja..
>>24782843
>Froakie was a generic edgy Pokemon
>>24782869
I don't really think he's overrating it, it was probably the best Pokemon character development story they've done yet. Now this is still the Pokemon anime, so "best" is a relative term, it's not like it was a masterpiece of brilliant writing. But it was a good story, and saying "it's a Charizard rehash" is oversimplifying it.
>it isn't so special when the show also tries things differently
I agree with this, it's not like it's particularly special. It's just that this is one of the "different" things that actually worked. Compare to the BW series, which tried an enormous number of different and potentially interesting things. It just gets so much shit (deservedly) because those things failed. The Infernape story wasn't "special," but it did end up being an experiment that worked, which isn't always (or often) the case with this series.
>>24782807
>Speaking of Infernape did it even win a single battle when it was a Monferno?
Just that one battle against Lyra. To be fair, it didn't really lose much either, just the one battle against Paul. Both of its other battles included evolving from Chimchar, and to Infernape.
>>24782948
Oh yeah that double battle.
The anime is stupid.
>>24782869
>except it was established at the first episode
No it wasn't.
>and the quirks of his character have always been passively shown (like being a sore loser)
How the fuck does being a sore loser imply that it can asspull some special ability that has NEVER been explained or shown in the entire franchise before? Chimchar's progression actually made sense. You're just trying to relate two things that have nothing to do with each other.
> You say "character development" like they have to occur in a specific episode
No, I'm saying "character development" like character development ACTUALLY EXISTS. A character being a sore loser isn't character development. It's just a personality quirk.
>but Froakie/Frogadier acts differently from his other mons
Not any more than all his other Pokemon act differently from one another.
> like it was a gospel
Not necessarily. But it WAS better written. It doesn't take a genius to see this.
>>24782923
I'd argue it's fine as far as merchandise anime is concerned. I mean it's no Build Fighters, but their best is still good enough for praise.
Bust mostly I'm railing him for diminishing how Greninja is handled.
>>24782970
>no it wasn't
at least watch the first episode anon
>asspull
it reflects his character established in the first episode that was passively visible in all other episodes involving him that he is a character who wants to get strong and knows getting a good trainer is a good way to get it
>character development
But it exists, he gains to learn how much of Ash is the trainer he is looking for. The sore loser thing is just one aspect of his character. Him being unable to relate to Hawlucha until the end, him being unable to fight with others until that episode, etc. The whole point of it is that he is seeing how much right he was in picking Ash.
>other mons
Yeah because clearly that makes Infernape different am i rite?
>better written
Not only is Greninja's arc not even finished, you are already pulling hyperbole with no bearing.
>>24782997
You should wail him more on the fact that he called Froakie an edgy-mon when fucking Chimchar fits the bill more.
It's like faggots like him don't know what the "calm, collected" character is.
>>24782997
Agreed. Also, ever since Froakie evolved into Frogadier it started acting more and more like Ash.
>>24783007
>>24782997
>at least watch the first episode anon
I DID. Damn, you Ashnimefags can't come up with any actual evidence by yourselves, can you? It's probably because it doesn't actually exist so you just resort to telling people to watch the episode.
>it reflects his character established in the first episode that was passively visible in all other episodes involving him that he is a character who wants to get strong and knows getting a good trainer is a good way to get it
Yes, but tell me how this relates to an asspull forme transformation. I'm still waiting.
> The whole point of it is that he is seeing how much right he was in picking Ash
No, it shows that he can become friends with other Pokemon and put their differences aside. It doesn't relate at all to him having this huge realization that Ash is a good trainer and somehow this can activate an asspull transform.
>Yeah because clearly that makes Infernape different am i rite?
What makes Infernape different is it's unique character development. No other Pokemon in the anime got fleshed out by having their two trainers compared and contrasted and interacting with them both for that long. This is a lot more meaningful and interesting than "uhhh froakie shows this vague character quirk that one episode"
>Not only is Greninja's arc not even finished
It doesn't need to be finished. The fact that this is is happening with no prior explanation means that it's poorly written.
>>24783007
>when fucking Chimchar fits the bill more
Nope. Having a special ability it can't control isn't edgy. Being le quiet serious frog who can't choose a trainer because reasons is edgy.
>>24783032
How? Can you give examples instead of making shit up? And can you tell me more about how a Pokemon acting more like it's trainer (which nearly every fucking Pokemon does by the way) can suddenly cause this forme change?
>>24783106
>no prior explanation
chimchar's enhanced blaze was never explained. you can complain that you don't like froakie's character as much, but chimchar's "enhanced blaze" is just as asspull as greninja "enhanced protean," which is all this form is.
>>24783106
>Nope. Having a special ability it can't control isn't edgy. Being le quiet serious frog who can't choose a trainer because reasons is edgy.
The reason Froakie decided to pick Ash is because it saw itself in him. They both rushed into danger regardless of their own safety. It was well aware that no other trainer would probably go through the same risk that Ash did. Ash was also the only trainer to offer it the affection that it wanted.
>How can you give examples instead of making shit up? And can you tell me more about how a Pokemon acting more like it's trainer can suddenly cause this forme change?
He literally displays the same sense of honor that Ash shows. It stood up for Bonnie when Fletchling made her cry; and it gets along well with younger Pokemon and children. It looked after Dedenne and was willing to be friends with that one kid at the daycare.
It also goes out of its way to protect its friends. It protected Pikachu multiple times, and it acted as a bodyguard for Serena.
I can't tell why it equates to a form change but its something.
>>24783151
it equates to a forme change because greninja has protean, which takes on characteristics of other pokemon. ash's greninja has some kind of anime protean that takes on characteristics of its trainer. similar to chimchar's anime super saiyan blaze. also similar to eternal floette.
>>24782869
>tamerfags
Now I know you aren't trying to say tamers isn't a totally solid adaption. Especially after that half-aborted mess that was 02.
>>24783163
>greninja has protean, which takes on characteristics of other pokemon
Protean only changes the Pokemon's type, it doesn't give any characteristics.
>>24783106
>It doesn't need to be finished. The fact that this is is happening with no prior explanation means that it's poorly written.
No, you can't say it's poorly written (Pokemon standards I know) if the Ash-Greninja arc is just starting, since you're totally dismissing the possible explanation of why it happens and the potential struggles they will need to overcome AFTER the transformation. At least the opening hints as much. The different traits/quirks were more on the subtle side but they were there, and depending how they go with it, they might serve as a good set up for it. Also this >>24783121. I can see a similiar situation where it's not about gaining the ability, but to learn to control it.
But they will probably mess up and rush the whole thing tho.
>>24783195
And Blaze/Overgrow/torrent has never caused pokemon to go berserk in the anime either, and yet chimchar still flipped his shit out of the stratosphere every time it activated.
>>24783195
type is still a characteristic. it synchronizes with the type of move its using. ash's greninja synchronizes with its trainer.
>>24783206
Blaze/Overgrow/Torrent in it's basic form worked the same way in the anime as in the games, giving a power-up when pretty much low in health/energy and what not. Not really causing flipped shit, but nonetheless it still followed the game to a degree.
Matching the trainer isn't the same as matching the move type, which is what Protean does, match the move type.
>>24783121
>chimchar's enhanced blaze was never explained
Chimchar is already established to have Blaze via game mechanics. And having an enhanced blaze ability isn't anymore of a stretch than a Pokemon being talented at using a certain move. It's simple enough where it doesn't need to be explained that thoroughly, and it's established right away so it's not like it's some shock to the viewer. That's what makes it not an asspull. It would have been an asspull if it didn't use its enhanced blaze at all until the Pokemon league or something. A type of forme change that hasn't been seen AT ALL in the entire franchise and only happens on one Pokemon at this point IS an asspull and should have some pre-explanation.
>>24783151
>I can't tell why it equates to a form change but its something.
And that's why it's poorly written. All those traits can easily be applied to a bunch of Ash's Pokemon. That's why it doesn't work as an explanation for why it can suddenly change its entire fucking appearance to look like its trainer.
>>24783163
Fucking please, Protean has nothing to do with it. That's just your shitty headcanon. It's a type change. It doesn't change the appearance of the Pokemon and give it a powered up form.
> since you're totally dismissing the possible explanation of why it happens
That doesn't make it not an asspull. Something this big SHOULD have some explanation or pre-establishment. They already attempted to justify it by saying "It happens because of bonds and it hasn't been seen for hundreds of years." That's bullshit.
>>24783206
What does Blaze do? It powers up Fire moves when the Pokemon is in danger. What does Chimchar's Blaze do? It powers up Fire moves when the Pokemon is in danger. It's hardly a stretch. It's just given so much power that it doesn't know how to control it consciously. It's not any harder to believe than Gible not knowing how to use Draco Meteor even though we've seen every other Pokemon use Draco Meteor no problem.
>>24783238
the complaint isn't that it doesn't match game mechanics, it's "why does greninja get a special forme through a bond?"
because it has a transformation ability in protean. eternal floette is the same way, having different forms based on its flower, and AZ's floette takes features from AZ's flower.
>>24783238
>>24783245
It's nice you guys know how abilities work but I was just pointing out the berserk aspect is not any larger of an alteration of the base ability than copying attributes of a trainer rather than a type, since both are kind of shoddily slapped on top of the original abilities for the sake of dramatic effect without any real explanation.
The anime's writing is like 90% rule of cool anyhow.
>>24783238
You're simplifying Blaze/Overgrow/Torrent while describing how Protean actually works in a series that Thunder Armor and Aim for the Horn exists.
Blaze just boosts fire moves when the Pokemon is low on health. Infernape went fucking berserk with all of its moves, fire or otherwise, on Blaze.
Protean, simplified, makes Greninja match. For all we know, it's purely visual and Greninja is matching types for its attacks, but has the appearance of Ash.
Due to the restrictions of the game, we wouldn't ever see that because there's no way for Greninja to match every customized player.
Why is Ash Greninja seemingly a temporary forme when AZ's Floette is permanently unique?
>>24782850
Regular Greninja is already better than mega sceptile though. Adding more to its stats is just overkill.
>>24783280
AZ's floette is bonded to a magic flower due to the nature of the species. Could also be a side effect of the necromancy.
>>24783280
protean isn't permanent. it goes back to normal after battle.
>>24783289
>stats
>the anime
>>24783264
>You're simplifying Blaze/Overgrow/Torrent while describing how Protean actually works
I described both Protean and the Elemental buffs in the simplest form in the games.
>Thunder Armor and Aim for the Horn exists
They haven't done that since Thunder Armor.
>For all we know, it's purely visual and Greninja is matching types for its attacks, but has the appearance of Ash.
I'm pretty sure if that were the case it would ever since the Ramos gym battle where it was constantly spamming Aerial Ace. All it did was most likely allowed it to tank the Grass-type attacks. It didn't change visually with wings and what not.
>>24783106
If you did watch the first episode then they outright tell you Froakie's trainer problem anon.
This is why I can't take your post properly, because right at the beginning you already keep pulling this shit.
>quiet serious frog
>edgy
well now I know you're just a shitposter
>>24783191
>Tamers
>adaptation
>>24783280
>>24783295
AZ's Floette was revived with Ultimate weapon energy, so it got stuck like that.
>>24783310
>They haven't done that since Thunder Armor.
>Ash shattering Trick Room with X-Scissor
also at Ramos it used an aerial double team.
>>24783321
Those are a bit more logical though, not something out of the blue.
>>24783321
>Psychic-type attack being destroyed by a bug-type move
It makes sense and the only time another Trick Room was in the anime was back in Sinnoh and Ash was just attacking the whole time and never bothered with it.
>Ramos it used an aerial double team
It's still double team.
Isn't this form anime only?
>>24783324
thunder armor can at least be rationalized as pikachu activating swellow's guts.
i'm not saying breaking trick room made no sense, but it was just as ridiculous.
>>24783344
Oh I agree on thunder armor, I'm talking about "Pikachu! The Horn!" (not aim for the horn)
>>24783336
it just barely makes sense in the anime because we know attacks can dissipate energy, but it's easily as stupid as thunder armor.
>>24783311
There's not much you can fault Greninja with, so people simply latch to the de-facto "edgy" namecalling and call it a day.
Kinda like pic related.
>>24783338
They said so, but it showed up in Pokémon Picross already, so who knows.
>>24782836
>So far they only know of the Legendary Greninja who is the leader of all the other ninja Pokemon, it's why many of the ninjas use Froakie.
So Ash leaving Greninja in the ninja village confirmed? ;_;
>>24782676
>spoiling the fun
>>24784290
unlikely seeing how olympia literally explained that Frogadier chose Ash to be his trainer because its the only thatgave it the power of LOVE.also it is only through its bond with Ash that this form can be acquired.
I'm so glad I skipped this episode because Ash-Ninja is the stupidest thing to ever happen
>>24784290
No, the ninja village already has its own greninja-owning hokage anyway.
Also will probably find mates in Oak's Barn.
>>24783338
It's been everywhere lately and recently in picross
>>24783338
>believing magazines on stuff that is new
>>24783280
>>24783295
>>24783318
The hell are you guys talking about. AZ's Floette was always how it was with the weird coloring and flower.
>>24783353
>swellow literally become gold swellow because of a move that would have killed it
>SE move destroying another move just like a hydro pump would tear through a flamethrower
>same level of asspull
Most retarded shit I have read all day m8.
>>24783007
>even calling something an "edgy" meme
All of you are shitters, no exception. And all of you are wrong some way or another.
You autists done yelling yet?
DEEPEST LORE
Ash-Greninja is on Pokémon Picross.
>>24792370
no it isn't
>>24792393
It is though. I even posted the picture for you.
>>24792393
try harder m8
