Who was the most dangerous of the plotline villains, and why was it Cyrus?
I'd fuck Cyrus honestly
Pokemon villains are a pathetic excuse for plot being pushed forward. Their motives and philosophies are childish and rely on stupid, cheap tricks, also everyone of them past gen 3 wants to control a legendary pokemon in one way or another. GameFreak doesnt care about bringing real shit on the table, they make bad guys for literal children.
>inb4 tips fedora
>>24780111
>no fun allowed
Probably Ghetsis, because he got his way t2w2i2c2e. If it hadn't been for the BW/B2W2 heroes, who knows how it would have turned out.
Meanwhile, Cyrus got rekt trying to summon Arceus, and he didn't even manage to actually summon Arceus.
>>24780111
>they make bad guys for literal children
Fitting for a game made for literal children.
>>24780122
>summon Arceus
What game you playin anon
>>24780111
>past gen 3
>implying
I hope you aren't trying to be a genwunner, because Giovanni did try too control Mewtwo.
>>24780117
Blame the guys behind it. When you have a concept like Pokemon, which makes everything possible, yet you make a villain who just wants to rule the world - who is to blame?It doesnt have to be like that only because its aimed for children.
>>24780136
I don't spam A when text appears, so I know he was actually trying to summon Arceus, regardless of what he inadvertently managed.
>>24780152
Man when you have a concept like Pokemon who wouldn't want to rule the world?
>>24780157
Can you give me the line where it says he's actually trying to summon Arceus?
>>24780161
Yeah but you can do very complex things if you are smart enough. Oh actually no, what's the purpose, let's just summon the most powerful pokemon in terms of power level and rekt everything like a cheap villain. What a twist.
>>24780174
Did you play BW?
>>24780127
this t (to) b (be) h (honest)
>>24780179
Yeah.
I actualy realized that the main issue with Pokemon plot is that its heavy based on main character only. Like, in anime you at least have other guys who try to do something, of course its all up to the main character but still you have an illusion of a living world and people responding to problems. In Pokemon no one really gives a crap that the world may end tommorow, this is quite pathetic when you think about all trainers who can do the same thing as you.
>>24780122
Ghetsis just wanted to rule the world.
What I was talking about in the OP was they were trying to achieve.
I guess I didn't convey that as well as I thought.
>>24780174
Cyrus's plan was actually pretty complex. He was not planning to rek everything. His plan was to start everything over but not to let Arceus control it. He wanted a world where he could select what was created or not. I mean, at base form, he wanted an in-game codeshark, but he carefully selected what was the issue and what was not.
I'd argue that Cyrus and Ghetsis were probably the same level of hyper-aware of human nature, but that Cyrus was motivated by some sick sense of altruism (he did say his world would be perfect, which seems to imply he thought it would be best for all involved to be free from will, emotion, and knowledge which would only cause them suffering) and Ghetsis was the coolest greedy bastard ever. The only real difference was in execution. They wanted a new world order, but Ghetsis was willing to start a civil war over it while Cyrus just decided he'd rather start all the way over.
>>24780231
He wanted to create a world were only he existed
>>24780234
Did you play DPPt?
>>24780237
That was what he wanted, to create a world without "spirit(emotion)", he never intended to share it with anyone.
He says so at platinum.
>>24780231
Both Cyrus and Ghetsis are by far my favourite Pokemon antags honestly
How long would it take Palpatine/Darth Sidious to become one of the strongest pokemon trainers, or just scheme his way to the top?Who could stop him?
Dark Matter
>>24780223
Don't a lot of NPCs in later game seem aware that bad shit is happening? Not all of them, of course, because that would be a pain in the ass to code when most players aren't going to talk to every single NPC anytime they enter an area. Plus, that's not really their skill to handle actually challenging pokemon.
Now, gym leaders/e4/champions not helping, THAT I definitely agree with. I know Lance helped with Team Rocket in Gen 2, I didn't play Hoenn or its remakes so I dunno what they did, Cynthia did what she could, and BW played it best by having the gym leaders face off against the sages, but you're absolutely right. You would think the official baddest ass of each region would respond quicker than a ten-year-old (or whatever their new implied ages are) to a crisis, but I guess in game it would be annoying to have to double battle or not be allowed to battle everything because the Competent Adult is handling it.
>>24780246
He didn't intend to bring anyone else with him because they would pollute it. I seem to recall Mars being pissed that she was told she couldn't come because she was so quick to fight/emotional.
I can't believe Cyrus is only 27.
>>24780278
This is why you stay dumb as fuck. If you know shit, you die early.
>>24780261
>Team
Banette-M
Absol
Luxray
Gliscor
EspeonYveltal
>>24780274
>...So you've come. You heard my speech, I take it. Snicker... A big lie, of course. It's true, insofar as my intention is to create a new world. But that world isn't for the likes of Team Galactic. I seek an entirely new world solely for myself. If not, it could never be the complete and perfect world. You've seen my minions of Team Galactic. You yourself must know that they are uniformly useless and incomplete."
"I know why you're here. I can sense it in you. It's about Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf, correct? You want to save them... I no longer have any need for them. I am finished with them. If your heart aches to save them, go right ahead. I couldn't care less. It will save me the trouble of disposing them."
"But, I must say... You are a remarkable specimen. Those Pokémon have nothing to do with you, do they? But still you come to rescue them out of pity? Such pitifully useless emotions... It's illogical and irrational. Pity and compassion are products of the weak and faulty human heart. You were compelled to come here by such vacuous sentimentality! I will make you regret paying heed to your heart!"
-Cyrus before the battle at Team Galactic HQ
Pic Unrelated
>>24780261noone can stop sheev
>>24780122
>summon arceus
The nigga just wanted dialga/palkia to fuck up space and time, he didn't need arceus. In addition to that, it's implied that people don't know too much about arceus (at least in Sinnoh) besides that it was a creator of sorts; nobody knows that it can be summoned or how to summon it. All Cyrus needed was control over space and time to carry out his plan, he didn't need arceus.
>>24780111
>>24780351
I am gonna need the sauce of that
>>24780323
Why did I never notice how nihilistic Cyrus was?
>>24780369
Because you were 4 when you played the game? It's his whole character, there's no other way you could miss it.
>mfw sinnohfetus claims Cyrus was "misunderstood" near me
>>24780111
this
>>24780223
also this
>>24780390
also this >>24780268
>>24780369
How is Cyrus nihilistic? His entire point in the series is to try to implement his value system above all others; he condemned all other creature's emotional struggles and willful yet illogical motives. In a nihilistic perspective, nothing has objective value and this is accepted, not fought against. If he were doing this with the mindset that "I do this because it pleases me, personally," that'd be super nihilistic because subjective value is the only thing that truly exists, but he has this weird dogmatic view of it and devalues emotions while elevating the value of machinery and other "logic" things if some of his backstory flavor texts later in game are reliable.
If he's a nihilist, he is the most value obsessed nihilist I've ever seen.
>>24780377
>Cyrus
>Misunderstood
What autist said that?
>>24780472
IRL Nihilism is "ho hum nothing matters"
Supervillain nihilism is "nothing matters so I'm going to change things"
It's like you've never played a video game before
>>24780093
How is it Cyrus when Lysandre was going to use an ancient machine to cause worldwide genocide?
>>24780834
How is it Lysandre when Cyrus was going to destroy the entire universe?
Most dangerous I would say it goes like this
Ghetsis>Cyrus>Giovanni=Lysandre>Maxie/Archie
You're as dangerous as your team allows you to defend yourself from a 10yo kid that wants to ruin your day.
Ghetsis has the best team nothing spectacular but good levels thanks to being the final boss basically and they are 6.
Cyrus has a good team too but I would say it gets carried hard by the Gyarados. They are all speedy and hard hitting.
Giovanni is ok, monotype hurts him. I would say Lysandre is better but GF why just 4 it's the damn team boss. 5 pokemon should be the least we can expect from the big bad, rival, the last gym leaders and E4. Fuck GF.
Archie/Maxie are just pathetic, and they didn't even tried to fix them in ORAS. Just adding a mega doesn't fix it.
>>24783062
I was mainly talking about their plans for world domination.
>>24783301
doesn't matter if you're a complete pushover
and do you really need other people to state the obvious?
fuck up the universe > fuck up the world > dominate the world using pokemon
So Cyrus > Lysandre and Archie/Maxie (they were going to mess up hard despite believing it was going to go alright) > Ghetsis and Giovanni
Probably Ghetsis above Giovanni since he sounds more messed up in the head, I think Giovanni would be happy just being the top mafia boss while Ghetsis seems like the kind of guy that would start doing random shit and making everyone even more miserable.
>>24783330
I feel like Giovanni could have been a better character redeemed, but he never really did much.
>>24780093
Because gen 4 was when the series jumped the shark
>>24783367
I noticed gen 4 was when Pokemon started to pay attention to their antags even more
Then gen 6 happened and dropped all of it
>>24783367
It didn't jump the shark though.There were no sharks to jump, Sharpedo is a gen 3 pokemon.
>>24783372
Does Garchomp count?
>>24783375
And it appears it is I who is the fool.
>>24780323
Pic kind of related
So, sort of off topic, but why did the Pokemon league let the boss of the biggest criminal operation in Kanto become a gym leader?
>>24783660
They didn't know Giov was the leader of TR I assume
>>24783660
Possible he made it through by having the skill AND paying off the right people.
>>24783660
First guess: They didn't know he was the leader of Team Rocket.
Second guess: Team Rocket was influential enough that they had him put as gym leader.
Third guess: The Pokemon League isn't the police, it doesn't matter jackshit that he's a mafia boss, just that he's strong enough for the position.
I mean, they do have a ninja (aka. an assassin) as gym leader/E4 later on.
>>24785406
> Team Rocket was influential
Maybe it was influential because he was gym leader?
>>24780151
Team Rocket has no connection to Mewtwo in the games, only the anime.
>>24783660
Poképolitics
Giovanni was a strong trainer. He either he used his influence from Team Rocket to get the Gym or used his influence from his Gym to fund Team Rocket. Team Rocket was running rampant throughout Kanto until the protagonist (You) started their journey. Rockets were even walking out in the open in many cities: Cerulean, Celadon, and Saffron with no fear from any law enforcement. This is different from when other Teams were out in the open. Galactic came off as an alternative energy company of sorts to the public when not stealing Pokemon as they had a few company buildings in some cities. Plasma were obviously a Pokemon rights advocate group.
I do not think the public knew of Giovanni's identity as the Rocket boss until GSC, so he could operate from both sides of the law assuming the League acts as a kind of government. In GSC it is public knowledge that Giovanni was the Rocket boss due to the radio tower broadcast.
>>24780151
Giovanni has no involvement with Mewtwo in the games. In the anime/manga/fanfiction he does.
>>24780093
Cyrus > Ghetsis >= Lysandre > Archie/Maxie > Giovanni
Cyrus obviously because of his nihilistic personality and his desire to use Dialga/Palkia/Giratina to essentially reset the universe in his own image devoid of any useless component.
Ghetsis is the actual most dangerous villain because he succeeded in his goal in BW for a few brief minutes. N beat Alder and was crowned the new champion of Unova until (You) go and beat N. Plasma their message of separating Pokemon and people got people to listen and even join their ranks. His famous speeches were quite convincing to say the least. Plasma's actions resonated across Unova for years even in BW2 people were still upset at Plasma (your rival for one). Team Rocket kind of sizzled out and died after RBY with only a small faction remaining. Ghetsis is frighteningly good at planning for in 2 short years after his failure he was able to avoid arrest by interpol, recreate Plasma under a new image, learn the location/capture Kyruem, build an airship utilizing Kyruem's destructive power, and predict that his son N would return to stop him.
Lysandre was similar to Cyrus in some regards, but ultimately a mass genocide < universe reset/deletion.
Giovanni benefits greatly from Team Rocket's actions not directly threatening humanity like the rest of the teams. Well obviously the Rockets were just a gang/mafia/mob. They don't want to eliminate humanity/the world. Rockets wanted to control what was already there. Kind of makes them come off more real than the other teams.
>>24783660
Clearly they didn't know, Team Rocket was an underground crime organization for a reason.
I think the logical assumption is that Giovanni was an established trainer of gym leader quality long before he created Team Rocket to satisfy his lofty ambitions. Probably grew power mad/bored during his active Gym leader days. I think Pokemon Origins did a pretty good job capturing Giovanni's character.
>>24780127
Disney films have better villains with better motives. Shut the fuck up
>>24780151
I bet you think you fought Ash at the end of GSC too.
>>24780714
Well, usually those just get straight up called narcissistic megalomaniacs, but I did forget that video games like to take artistic liberties with everything. Point taken.
>>24786708
>>24783660
The gym guy for Viridian didn't even know Giovanni was the leader there, so it's safe to assume that nobody knew he was the Team Rocket boss.
>>24780844
No he wasn't. He was going to create his own universe to live in.
>>24783660
Giovanni was a Gym Leader before he was a criminal. He got his start as a skilled Pokemon trainer and creating TMs like Fissure before he began a life of crime. He heavily implies if not outright says this when you encounter him for the last time, and the people in Viridian City mention that the gym leader has been gone for a while. Hell, the reason he goes back to the gym is because you destroyed his crime syndicate, leaving him with nothing but his old day job.
>>24787094
Yes, and to do so he had to destroy the current one.
>>24780093
>>24780248
same here.
>>24786914
>>24780151
>anti-genwunners in charge of getting their facts straight
stop confusing the anime and games
Is it just me or is Team Galactic darker and more competent in Platinum?
>>24780102
this
My favourite will probably remain Archie. Because he's a laughable oaf who loves his fish. Most of the villains are out for their own reasons but for him its pretty much, well I got this fish I really like and fish like water so why don't I flood the world and we'll be happy forever everywhere?
