Pidgeot now learns Blizzard and Vaccum Wave.
How does the metagame change?
Also Pidgeot thread
>blizzard
birds get heatwave because flapping their wings generates energy, i.e. hot air. they can't just control temperature.
>vacuum wave
>The user whirls its fists to send a wave of pure vacuum at the target.
>fists
>>24774967
It really wants Focus Blast and Sing. Then it's a sizable threat.
Blizzard offers practically nothing in coverage aside from Ground- and Dragon-types which are already hit hard by Hurricane.
A resisted Hurricane is also more powerful than a 2x super effective Vacuum Wave, and even then it's redundant because of its sanic speed.
>>24775010
>Focus Blast
only for things with arms
>Sing
it's a raptor, not a songbird. it doesn't get a single sound move.
>>24774997
This bird controls hurricanes. Blizzards are strong winds.
>>24775028
>only for things with harms
>Hurricanus-T learns it
>>24774967
>How does the metagame change?
It doesn't change at all.
/thread
>tfw no Zap Cannon
>>24775029
blizzards are strong winds at low temperatures. pidgeot doesn't have any affinity for the elements, just really fucking powerful wings.
>>24775046
And yet it learns Heat Wave.
>>24775028
>what is yveltal
>what is xerneas
>what is dragalge
>what is the four musketeers
>what is noivern
>what is archeops
>>24775038
gamefreak exempts legendaries from thematics, they get all sorts of moves just because. normal pokemon are more strict.
>>24775028
>only for things with arms
>yveltal has arms
>>24775054
i fucking explained to you, nigger.
>>24774997
pretty much all fliers get heatwave because kinetic energy generates heat. reducing air temperature would require elemental control.
>>24775038
it's Tornadus, but god damn is the name "Hurricanus" hilarious.
>>24775028
>it's a raptor, not a songbird. it doesn't get a single sound move.
it gets uproar and snore though
>>24774997
wooper has no arms and gets ice punch so there's that. still vacuum wave wouldn't change anything
as for blizzard, if stuff like raticate or marowak can learn it then I see no reason for pidgeot not to learn it, considering it is at least asociated with wind, though it's weird that almost no flying types get the move.
>>24775028
Archeops learns it and it's a bird. Escavalier learns it and it doesn't exactly has arms
>>24775055
noivern and archeops have arms. they're both based on creatures that have wings on their limbs.
legendaries don't follow rules, they have all sorts of weird shit.
dragalge is the only one that's pushing it, but it does have long fins that aren't constantly in use. compare that to kingdra, who would certainly benefit from focus blast, but doesn't have the equipment.
>>24775056
Okay sure, but that doesn't explain the many other non-legendary digit-less Focus Blast users.
>>24775085
>going for special pleading
found the creationist
>>24775028
Archeops, the muskedeers, Dragalge, Clawitzer, Noivern, Xerneas, Yvetal, Zygarde all get focus blast and don't have arms.
The Clefairy line, Chansey line, Smoochum, Skitty line and Minccino line all get sing and are not song birds or have anything to do with singing.
>>24775076
almost everything gets uproar and snore, including other raptors like fearow, braviary and staraptor. but "voice" moves like sing and hyper voice are for mons with powerful voices, like altaria, chatot and jigglypuff.
at least one of wooper's evolutions has arms. none of pidgeot's do. pure normals get lots of elemental moves, as do monster egg group mons like marowak, which are partly based on kaiju. birds of prey like the ones listed above simply don't.
archeops and escavalier have arms.
Sing would throw Pidgeot to fucking Ubers. Fuck off with that shit.
>>24775088
i didn't say they need digits, i said arms. focus blast is basically kamehameha.
>>24775106
they don't have to be songbirds, but they're things with powerful voices. notice that they learn numerous other sound based moves.
>>24775112
I agree on the first part, i don't think pidgeot should get sing, I was just pointing out it did learn sound moves
again, if most water types can learn blizzard, as well as most normal types and "kaijus", then we can agree that there's really no requirement or logic to learn the attack, so pidgeot might as well pick it up someday
archeops is a bird, it's arms aren't really much different to pidgeot's wings. having claws shouldn't be important to peform the attack if escavalier can do it with two spears
>>24775286
archeops is a proto-bird. it's based on microraptor and archeopteryx, which didn't have fully evolved wings, just wings attached to their limbs. it has arms in the traditional sense, with wings attached.
there is a requirement and logic, and i explained it. it's arbitrary, per se, but it's consistent. gamefreak arbitrarily decided that pure normals have wide movepools including elemental moves, and that monsters have elemental moves because kaijus breathe fire and lightning and ice and all sorts of shit. waters are also elemental and ice is close to that. they are consistent with this type of distribution.
likewise they decided that birds of prey do not have "voice powers," nor elemental powers.
>>24774967
Only thing that changes is that it gets a guaranteed OHKO on Landorus-T and Dragonite after SR and can kill specially defensive Gliscor without confusion hax.
Sing and blizzard please
>>24775028
Pidgeotto literally already had Sing as an event move in Gen 2.
actually, hilariously, pidgeot could learn aura sphere. togekiss learns it through move reminder, and can't learn it as togetic/togepi.
>>24775419
source?
>>24775403
No sing is too broken
Why is /vp/ so obsessed with buffing Mega Pidgeot in particular? There's so many worse Megas, and no matter what moves it gets, it'll be spamming Hurricane 90% of the time.
>>24775471
Because Pidgeot literally just needs a move to be really good.
>>24775471
>tfw favorite Pokemon is Steelix
>Finally gets a Mega
>"Thank you Game Freak!"
>mfw I realize it's practically useless and among the top 3 worst Megas
At least M-Pidgeot can spam Hurricane.
>>24775483
It needs more than that. Mega Pidgeot is only a little bit more powerful than Life Orb Pidgeot. Focus Blast or Blizzard don't mean much if Pidgeot can't hit hard with them.
>>24775516
high powered moves really go a long way, though. their drawback is poor accuracy, which pidgeot bypasses
>>24775509
It's biggest problem is it's not got any reliable recovery.
A better ability would nice too.
A shame, it's got arock soliddesign
>>24775509
steelix would be good if it got a useful ability and at least some good form of recovery. a little extra bit of power would be nice. I mean 125 base for a mega with no particular powerful moves is just sad
>>24775056
Noivern has it
>>24775570
noivern is a wyvern. a wyvern is a dragon with wings attached to its ARMS.
>>24775346
>archeops is a proto-bird. it's based on microraptor and archeopteryx, which didn't have fully evolved wings, just wings attached to their limbs. it has arms in the traditional sense, with wings attached.
That's not how wings work. Wings aren't 'attached' to limbs, wings are the limb. A bird's wing is basically your arm minus the hand.
>>24775594
by wings i just mean a wing structure. protobirds still had a somewhat reptilian structure.
i guess it would be more accurate to say pokemon with hands, even if those hands are just nubs.
>>24775687
Stop making shit up, Dragalge learns focus blast.
>>24775064
>telling lies
The Japanese name for heatwave is "hot wind". That's why birds get it
>>24775038
because Tornadus non-T learns it, duh.
>>24775058
why yes it does actually
>>24775106
archeops has arms though
>>24775516
>It needs more than that.
Sheer Cold.
Checkmate.
>>24775516
>a little bit more powerful than LO Pidgeot
>forgetting increased Bulk
>forgetting increased Speed
>252+ SpA Mega Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 117-138 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252+ SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 114-135 (68.2 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's even more powerful that a Choice Specs variant, and yes, it usually runs Modest in Doubles because it mostly uses Hurricane and Heat Wave as offensive options and it can run Tailwind orAgility
>>24774997
Yes, because Machamp is perfectly capable of altering elements and Pidgeot isn't.
>heat wave
I want Inferno instead.
>>24775899
And Dragalge has only fins, yet it still learns focus blast. Stop being a faggot over non-existent criteria.
>>24774967
Blizzard pushes it to OU and vacuum wave does literally fucking nothing.
Give it focus blast not blizzard, it at least looks like a super sayain.
>>24774997
>vacuum wave
>hands
Scyther has hands confirmed.
>>24776068
it obviously uses the fins like hands. gamefreak has been entirely consistent with focus blast distribution, save legendaries. there is very fucking obviously a criteria for learning it.
>>24775870
that doesn't impair my argument. my point is that it doesn't require elemental manipulation, it's just flapping its wings really damn hard. blizzard would require it and pidgeot has no moves that demonstrate that ability.
>>24774997
Heat Wave involves breathing hot air.
>>24776254
If Dragalge can use it's fins like hands, nothing stops pidgeot from using it's wings like arms.
>Totally consistent
>except for these exceptions, of course.
>>24776254
>gamefreak
>consistent
Pick one.
>>24774997
There is a fucking Turtle with cannons, a humanoid rooster that can spit fire, freaking dragons and more than 600+ animals with supernatural abilities and you don't think a Bird can create blizzards?
>>24776507
If it ain't Articuno, Delibird, Swanna, or other shit like that, nope.
>>24776254
hydreigon
Pidgeot is funny in that its a total one trick pony, but the trick is extremely strong. If you want to buff it give it Fake Out and 100 base attack in Mega form.
>STAB Fake Out off 100 attack
>Then 100% accurate Hurricanes or it'll U-Turn out
MUHMENTUM
>>24774967
blizzard and not focus blast?
fuck that shit
>>24776641
It doesn't need Focus Blast since it has Heat Wave for steels and Hurricane hits for so much anyway and confuses you, so it's risky to switch into.
>>24774997
Birds get Heatwave because heatwaves involve wind. Stop it with this awful headcanon.
>>24776352
except that nothing with straight up wings has it. archeops and noivern have hands on their wings.
>>24776530
hydreigon has heads for hands, but they're still hands.
>>24776365
pick both, faggot. i'm only being autistic about this shit because gamefreak is. legendaries get whatever but regular pokemon primarily get moves based on themes.
>>24776702
so does fairy wind, icy wind, silver wind, ominous wind, and they rarely get those
heat wave can just be rationalized without elemental control
>>24774967
Give it Inferno and Focus Blast. Blizzard seems a bit overpowered; Inferno just fucks all dragons anyway.
>>24776660
252 SpA Mega Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 36-42 (10.5 - 12.3%) -- possible 9HKO
>>24776895
yes, a fast as shit nuker that can't miss should have universal coverage. brilliant.
>>24776899
What's wrong with that? Special attack isn't spectacular (can't hold specs, scarf, or LO), defensive potential is atrocious, it's weak to hazards and doesn't resist any notable priority. Jesus, it's like you've never played the game before. Look at hoopa: best offensive potential in the game, excellent movepool, but held back by a single shit stat.
>>24776927
Man, imagine if Hoopa had Sucker Punch or Shadow Sneak.
>>24776927
hoopa is a fucking legendary you clod. it's not balanced for competitive play.
pidgeot has the tools to fuck up a lot of shit with little opportunity cost. if it could fuck up anything it would be broken. there needs to be a tradeoff.
Zap cannon or even Thunder would be cool.
Fire Spin would also be pretty cool because it would trap an incoming ttar/aero then you could just switch in whatever check/counter then wreck shit.
So heatran would still be an extremely reliable counter
>>24777038
sand tomb is an option. sand attack is practically its signature move.
>>24775516
20 more speed and accuracy bypass go a long way
>>24774967
Blizzard is kind of shit. Give it Ice Burn.
I don't get why you people think Mega should be good at everything. More Megas should be like Mega Pidgeot: immensely strong and threatening but not completely braindead and able to be countered by some regular mons so it still needs support.
>>24776660
Flying, Fire and Normal do nothing to Rock-types, which M-Pidgeot struggles with.
>>24778133
As a mega, Pidgeot doesn't has offensive stats past 140 that makes it super strong, so to compensate that it at least need good coverage which it lacks.
Fire coverage is nice, but it looks like nothing when it is facing an Electric or a Rock-type mon because both resist Flying STAB. Rock deserves special mention because it resists both STABs and Fire.
>>24778216
Then partner it up with a mon that beats electric and rock. Do you want megas to be super fucking retarded and you just stick any mega on any team with no cohesion or thought necessary and it's your panic button that you activate when you're losing and start beasting? Is that what you want?
Most Megas need support. You got shit like Mega Zam needing its team to be able to handle Bisharp or else it can't come out. Mega Waifu gets rekt by REGULAR SCIZOR, Mega Glalie needs support since it's too slow to sweep on its own in OU, M-Zards need something to clear rocks and threaten their common counters.
Pidgeot isn't perfect, but it doesn't really need help.
>>24774967
>How does the metagame change?
it doesnt. apart from one pokemon having a little more coverage
>>24776948
>it's not balanced for competitive play
Almost no pokemon are. Pokemon are designed from a thematic perspective first and foremost.
![Mega_beedrill[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/S28wHlq.png "Mega_beedrill[1].png")
Megahorn when?
>>24778396
>Most Megas need support
Most megas *below OU
>>24774967
>How does the metagame change?
it barely does.
blizzard offers no coverage whatsoever.
vacuum wave is too weak against heatran, rotom w, mega diancie and the likes
>>24778712
probably never,it'd have a 240 damage attack due to adaptability with 150 base attack
>>24778723
>both stabs resisted by steel
It's fine.
>>24778735
drill run is a thing
>>24778739
>80bp
>not boosted by its ability
Beedrill would be totally fine with megahorn, its STABs are too dramatically shit and coverage moves too weak to be a real threat.
>>24778751
Still more then enough to fuck the likes of Heatran and Excadrill in the ass. Or are you forgetting this shit has 150 base attack?
>>24776860
>hydreigon has heads for hands, but they're still hands.
okay fine. pidgeot has wings for hands, but they're still hands.
>>24777158
>sand attack is practically its signature move.
kinda funny how it ended up with no guard
>>24778854
>uses sand attack against the enemy
>has no guard ability
>>24774967
>generic normal/flying bird learning Blizzard
It makes about as much sense as a generic fire type learning Hydro Pump.
>thinking that's bullshit
Look at Mega Gyarados.
>Mold Breaker
Mega aero gets drill peck, how does the meta change?
>>24779115
And it's male exclusive.
>>24779138
>And it's male exclusive.
and super effective against females
>>24778909
Yeah but Pidgeot can control winds. Fire types can't control water (except Emboar)
>>24779147
Except lesbians like Miltank.
I would be happy if it got boomburst
Regarding the arms only moves etc conversation, this is pokemon ligic hardly applies since its gamefreak that decides things
>>24781249
Logic*
>>24781249
Boomburst would be cool but then it would barely have a reason to use Hurricane anymore (except against shit weak to Flying like Venusaur or ghost types)
>>24781249
>lol gamefreak doesn't care about logic
>moves very clearly distributed based on internal logic
gamefreak DOES care. they care even more than you people, seeing as how you just suggest any move for any mon, even when its totally inconsistent with their movepool and theme.
Pidgeot now learns blizzard, thunder, fire blast, focus blast, extremespeed, boomburst, earth power, geomancy, quiver dance, zap cannon, inferno, dynamic punch, sheer cold and secret sword how does the meta change?
>>24781301
Remind me why Pidgeot doesn't get Extremespeed or Sonic boom despite noted as being able to fly at twice the speed of sound?
>>24778761
I think you're forgetting powercreep and just how much not having a life orb matters.
>>24781446
a always = b does not mean b always = a.
pokemon don't always get EVERY move that's appropriate for them. but every move they do get is appropriate. nasty plot gengar makes sense but it's broken as fuck, so it doesn't get it.
The biggest thing holding Mega Beedrill back is its weakness to Stealth Rock preventing it from being the U-Turn muhmentum monster it was made to be.
Mega Pidgeot isn't bad, it's more like certain other Megas are simply retard strong while Pidgeot requires some brains to use.
>>24774967
Any pokemon with Ice Shard can still kill it with one hit. Mega Pidgeot really needs Focus Blast
>>24781483
>Pidgeot requires some brains to use.
CLICK HURLYWHIRL SO SMART :DDD
>>24781487
>Any pokemon with Ice Shard can still kill it with one hit
that is literally not true. it's a 2x weakness, not a 4x
>>24781467
>but every move they do get is appropriate.
Ice Punch Ghastly and Wooper
Steel Wing Beheeyem
Cut Digglett
>>24781467
Appropriate like ice punch 'literally armless' wooper
Fucking Poliwag learns shit like Wake-up Slap and Belly Drum
>>24781446
twice the speed of sound isn't fact enough for extreme speed, clearly
>>24781517
at least one of their forms has hands.
steel wing is a reference to UFOs.
diglett gets several cutting moves, it obviously has claws of some sort.
there is an internal logic and internal consistency. they do not just give moves willy nilly as people here seem to suggest.
>>24781530
>at least one of their forms has hands.
Then it would be logical for them to give ice punch to Quagsire and Gengar.
>steel wing is a reference to UFOs.
No it's not. It's outright because the TM teaching it would've taught Ally Switch, which Beheeyem does learn, but then that TM got switched to Steel Wing in BW2.
If it was actually a reference to UFOs, then it would've learned it via level up, or at all in BW1.
>diglett gets several cutting moves, it obviously has claws of some sort.
You can clearly see it doesn't and there's no media showing it does. It's not based on logic, it's based on a joke. Like Mega Ampharos being a dragon type because the lighthouse part of its name in Japanese was the same as the Japanese word for Dragon. You think Gamefreak actually has all this shit thought out when they make these kinds of silly jokes and mistakes all the time.
And all of that really awful reasoning is as valid as Pidgeot getting fast moves because Pidgeot is cannonically fast.
>>24778712
when shitbugs start getting egg moves. as a system change it's unlikely, but it's a change they should make.
>>24781530
>internal logic
Flame wheel Rattata
Mega punch Torchic
Steel wing Dodrio
Surf Rampardos
Dream Eater Dunsparce
You
stupid
fucking
faggot
>>24781540
i'm not saying pidgeot shouldn't get fast moves you fucking moron. i'm saying pokemon don't always get all the moves that make sense for them.
"a joke" is still an internal logic. it's still consistent, given that it's not just one move but several, and it's given for a specific reason, not just because.
gamefreak decided that tutor moves are not restricted to certain evos. as long as it makes sense on one evo the others can get it. hence iron tail primeape. the exception being moves that require a type, like draco meteor. this is still internal logic and internal consistency.
>switched TMs
if that was the case then other mons who learned ally switch via TM would get it, but they don't. they specifically decided that Beheeyem would still get the TM.
>>24781586
normals get plenty of elemental moves.
see above point on tutor moves.
it also gets Fly.
Rhydon and Aggron also get Surf. lots of monster egg group mons do.
dunsparce also gets hex and spite. its based on a cryptid so i guess it gets 'bad omen' moves.
It's not far! Pidgeot was so close from being OU! All he needed was one move! (focus blast)
>>24781678
it's BL you twat. that means it's actually forced into OU through merit rather than usage.
OP's vision for the thread: Metagame discussion based on pidgeot having blizzard and vacuum wave
ITT: dumbasses talking about what moves are "logically justified" on pokemon, a fictional, magical, animated universe aimed at children.
>>24776860
Since you're being a real technical asshole, by bone structures, a wing still has a "hand".
The move's description doesn't call for anything besides focusing power and releasing it. Plus Clawitzer learns it.
>>24781683
That's not how this works.
BL means it's too much for the tier below, doesn't mean it's good enough to be in the tier above.
Zygarde, for example, is sitting at C- rank with OU powerhouses like Cloyster and Roserade.
>>24781701
>fictional universe = no rules
sure lets just give beedrill diamond storm. i mean why not?
>>24781751
Why not indeed? Drills are frequently diamond tipped, and Beedrill's biggest flaw is his utter lack of usable moves. I'd say it'd be a perfectly sensible addition.
>>24781709
but wings don't function like hands. some of the mons dont have visible digits, but they still use their "hands" like hands. >>24775687
that's the requirement, and it's consistent aside from legends.
moves aren't only distributed based on description. hyper voice is just yelling really loud but it's still only given to mons themed to have strong voices.
>>24781776
beedrill has nothing to do with drills aside from its english name.
>>24781807
Lilligant has nothing to do with butterflies.
Manaphy has nothing to do with fireflies.
Meanwhile, Beedrill learns Drill Run.
Hm.
>>24781828
lilligant is a dancer.
manaphy is a sea angel, which "glows", but i've said repeatedly that legendaries don't follow thematic rules.
lots of shit learns drill run, doesn't mean they're made of diamonds.
here, how about dragon ascent skitty? be a retard with that instead.
Another successful thread about Pidgeot on /vp/.
>>24781859
>lilligant is a dancer.
Then why doesn't it learn Fiery Dance?
>manaphy is a sea angel, which "glows", but i've said repeatedly that legendaries don't follow thematic rules.
Oh wait, you're literally just going "it has to be this way because I say so." Glad to know I'm dealing with an actual child.
>>24781956
it's not because i say so, it's because it's an observable fucking pattern that gamefreak follows.
>why doesn't it learn fiery dance
>>24781467
>>24781588
fiery dance WOULD be thematically appropriate, but that doesn't guarantee it will get it.
>>24781588
>if that was the case then other mons who learned ally switch via TM would get it, but they don't
Or they forgot a single Pokemon. Which has happened before.
Look at just Gen 6. Alakazam only got a 90 BST increase because they forgot it was one of the Pokemon they buffed by 10 BST before giving it a mega.
Everything else with a +10 BST and a mega also got +100 BST as a Mega.
Gamefreak are highly incompetent when it comes to quality assurance of over 700+ Pokemon.
>>24781999
>which has happened before
examples?
>>24781956
Why doesn't Keldeo learn Ice Beam? Why does Zapdos learn Metal Sound?
>>24782021
He literally just gave you one.
Or do you believe Gamefreak intentionally made mega alakazam only 90 BST higher than its base form?
>>24781446
Because Pokedex entries are clearly written by ten year-old fuckbois and tumblrinas.
>>24782286
he said beheeyem got steel wing as a mistake, based on the fact that it's "happened before." i'm looking for any examples of that.
the only confirmed mistake they made was mega zam's BST, and that happened after.
Pokémon logic.
>>24781797
Accelgor, Dragalge, and Raichu have no hands, and still learn focus blast.
>>24783242
>>/thrash/
You know what you did.
>>24783155
Ancientpower evolutions being available from Colosseum despite them being unable to evolve in Gen 3, then Gen 4 introduces their evolutions despite the whole "not going back" thing they have against Sun and Moon Stones on Eevee.
>People acting like move selections have always been 100% accurate to the minutest detail of a pokemon's species, anatomy, and description
By egg move/move tutor logic there's no reason it couldn't
>>24783315
unless you're the type of autistic faggot who gets his booty bothered over the source material of reaction images, I really don't.
Enlighten me anon.
>>24783242
they have hands, just no discernible digits. >>24775687
>>24783328
i... what? where is the mistake here?
>>24783379
>they have hands
>just without the parts that make them, by definition, hands
Sing & Focus Blast is top-tier OU material.
