Was there anything more satisying in the pokemon franchise than watch Zoroark be completely unable to become gen V's Lucario?
I always love when a company fails miserably at trying to shove something down everyone's throats
>>24772364
Don't forget they tried to backpedal their choice into Zekrom midgen but they failed at promoting it too.
No because Zoroark's deaign is a lot more cohesive and really conveys its inspiration more than Lucario's.
Not really. The fact that Zoroark failed to become popular despite having a good design, while Lucario is popular even though it looks like utter garbage is all the more crushing really.
>>24772364
But it IS gen V's Lucario.
>>24772623
>good design
>literally just an emo furry
>>24772804
>implying emo furry isn't good design
>>24772364
But Zoroark wasn't shoved down everyone's throats, that's why it failed.
Its ability is too gimmicky... I understand that it's the whole point, but it would have been better received with a better ability, moves and stats. Other than design(arguable though) they gone and fucked it up. That said, I do like it, no more, no less.
Zoroark is cool though
>>24772804
>look guys, i called it a furry!
>a-am i fitting yet?
>>24772364
It is a pretty interesting mon, but I didn't want another Lucario. Or just another mon that takes the spotlight too much, for that matter (looking at you Greninja), so in a way I'm happy it wasn't that well received.
>>24772623
Nothing wrong with Lucario's design.
You are literally only saying this because it's been shoved down our throats since gen 3
>>24772872
>nothing wrong with Lucario's design
>colour scheme
>booty shorts fur
>giant nose tiny mouth
>inorganic taped on spikes
>nothing that conveys steel typing
Zoroark's design on the other hand is fantastic. It's only glaring flaw is the lankiness of its undefined upper arms.
>>24772364
I'm your Mother.
>>24772972
>>colour scheme
Be more specific. What's wrong with it? Nothing clashes
>>booty shorts fur
I don't understand but okay
>>giant nose tiny mouth
You mean like actual jackals? No way
>>nothing that conveys steel typing
You already identified it
>inorganic taped on spikes
>Zoroark's design on the other hand is fantastic
Now I'm gonna do exactly what you just did
>Giant patch of chest fur
>lanky arms
>Why is it wearing eyeliner and lipstick?
>Completely unnecessary inorganic blue bead patched on
Zoroark > Lucario, all day
>>24772999
>like actual jackals
Like the complete opposite of jackals you fucking retard.
>>24772823
This. I would've been more game to Zoroark if it wasn't always shifting its image to something else
>>24773032
You're a faggot and please consider offing yourself
>>24772999
>this is what lucario shills actually classify as logical design defense
Lucario conveys nothing about its inspirations. It's supposed to be an egyptian boxer but somehow is more known for its aura. It also runs like a ninja instead somehow. Three pieces of spikes justify it being steel? Wow. It's fucking nothing.
Zoroark on the orher hand is based on a kitsune, a yokai known for impersonating humans, particularly attractive women, hence the make up. Its tail with the bead is supposed to evoke a brush, because of how it is able to disguise itself
>>24772823
Team Preview makes the ability kind of shit.
If the didn't introduce Team Preview in Gen 5, Zoroark would have been used way more.
>>24773052
What the hell are you talking about? Lucario is based on Anubis, it's fighting type stems from being based on Egyptian Boxers. Anubis judged the souls of people based on their actions which is where Lucario sensing aura comes from. Runs like a ninja? Stop watching Naruto you fucking faggot.
Zoroark still seems to have some kind of cult following regardless, but yes it could've done much better.
What if Zoroark did successfully become the Gen V equivalent of Lucario? What would have been different and how would it influence everything in the last two generations?
>>24772972
>colour scheme
Color scheme was the one thing they did right. Blue/black is an excellent choice for marketing because blue is a pretty neutral base color that appeals to pretty much anyone, and the black only serves to balance it out.
Black/red is one reason Zoroark was doomed from the beginning. Black is a bad base color to begin with because it's associated with malice and doesn't really stand out, and red only intensifies that since black/red is the official edgelord palette; red isn't welcoming or relaxing, it's tough and cool, and that makes a terrible mascot.
Mascot design basically requires you to stand out. Yellow stands out. Blue stands out. Black keeps you in the shadows, and red doesn't do anything to help you out. Greninja was a fairly blatant attempt to 'fix' Zoroark; it's also Dark-type and focuses on trickery, but it's brighter and more welcoming.
>>24772999
I don't like either of them much but wow that's pathetic. If anything, you convinced me that lucariofags can be really stupid.
>>24773073
It does run like one in the anime and movies. Stay deluded, faggot
From a design perspective Zoroark's silhouette is much more interesting than Lucario's by a long shot.
A well designed pokemon (in most cases, not all) is defined by its silhouette. Pokemon with simple, round body shapes usually compensate for this by either being very bubbly and cute, or have interesting color palettes.
Lucario is very symmetrical and generally suffers from a lot of tangents, while Zoroark has a more wild, inconsistent silhouette which reflects the pokemon's nature.
>>24773093
>anime and movies
Every gen that a pokegirl fails to take the Ashbowl Heavyweight Championship from Latias I smile inside.
Can't wait to see the state of Serenafags come gen 7 when ash gets a shiny new girl to travel with who also won't take the title from Latias.
>>24773073
That still doesnt make its punching theme evident
>>24773093
>>24773052
Every time I see someone say Lucario runs like a ninja I die a little inside due to the sheer idiocy displayed since it's clear people think Naruto created ninjas
The whole hands behind the back thing isn't how ninjas run. Ninjas don't even run a specific way. Lucario runs like pic related which is how every little kid who grew up with him tried to run like at some point in their lives
>>24773082
>Black is a bad base color to begin with because it's associated with malice
>black/red is the official edgelord palette
It's a dark type. It's supposed to be like that.
>>edgelord
You sound just as inmature using that word.
That said, it's true that while Zoroark's design is good for a dark type pokémon it's not good for a mascot, or at least not for a japanese game for kids.
I do like how you compared Greninja's design choices to Lucario's too. Fuck that frog.
Even though Zoroark is obviously some emo fox deviantart-tier garbage, it's much better than Lucario. Lucario looks dumb as fuck with its blue color scheme, random spikes, and now it has that bullshit rasta Mega form that people only don't use more because Mega Metagross is more braindead.
Zoroark with its evil trickster fox theme is much better than Lucario's MUH AURA KNIGHT WARRIOR shit too.
>>24773097
Oh God it's a silhoutte fag. Go back to /sug/.
>>24773040
You know who doesn't look like that picture? Lucario.
>>24773144
I could say the same about Zoroark
>>24773151
You could, but I'm not talking about the likeness to the entire animal. I pointed out a single specific aspect of Lucario's design, it's giant nose with tiny mouth underneath rather than a proper muzzle. People said "just like a real jackal" when that evidently isn't true.
I'll say this for the millionth time.
Lucario's Steel-typing isnt a physical trait, it's because lucario has a Heart of Steel, i.e., it's pure of heart
>>24773151
This is some next level delusion.
I like how you went for a picture with colors opposite to Zoroark's and you still failed.
>>24772364
>always love when a company fails miserably at trying to shove something down everyone's throats
Because they didn't try? It's not nearly as forced as Lucario. Not even a bit. Lucario was pandered to death since before gen 4 to this day, he's pretty much the mascot after Pikachu. Zoroark was also revealed before gen 5 and had its movie but that's it, it's even hard to obtain him in his origin game.
I like both though, but I prefer Zoroark a bit. And love this "le edgy furbait" maymay.
>>24773151
Only kitsunes that manage to grow nine tails get to become white. You tried though
>>24773080
to be fair, N DOES have a Zoroark in Black/White.
But it doesnt help a lot that Zoroark is so frail that you wouldnt even really notice it much especially because you never see it until you damage it.
And I believe N's Zorua is forced into your party in B2W2
I just wish the damn thing got more popularity. Its stats arent even all that bad, its not like its the sudowoodo to lucario's Snorlax
>>24772821
In fact, the opposite happened! It was kept away from everyone, until BW2, in which they finally give you a Zorua without having to do a BS event, but it was already too late.
>>24773168
>Lucario's Steel-typing isnt a physical trait, it's because lucario has a Heart of Steel, i.e., it's pure of heart
any sources besides your ass?
>>24773168
And I'll say this for the millionth time, that's a poorly justified retroactive cop out made by people in denial of Lucario's flaws.
>>24773168
Not a lucariofag but the portruding metal spikes suggest a metal skeleton. It is a very subtle hint though, didn't occur to me until someone pointed it out. Also, shouldn't its teeth be metal too?
>>24773166
Its nose isn't giant, you're clearly exaggerating. The size of a Jackal's muzzle compared to Lucario's is nothing. Simple comparison could be seen as a Jackal having a larger muzzle than Lucario but not by much.
>>24773184
>>24773183
>Steadfast
>inner focus
>J U S T I F I E D
>>24773173
>>24773178
I literally just looked up kitsune and grabbed the first photo on Google images
I'll gladly shut up if you can show me a kitsune that resembles Zoroark because no one has yet.
I like both Lucario and Zoroark honestly
Why do either one of them have to look like a specific thing? They're merely just based off of it
>>24773192
Lucario doesn't have a muzzle AT ALL though. It has a nose, and then it has an ordinary mouth beneath the nose that doesn't form together with it to make a snout. It's like a person wearing a canine mask.
I can't even believe you're trying to make a point and then yourself posting pictures disproving them.
>>24773191
>Not a lucariofag but the portruding metal spikes suggest a metal skeleton
Not the wolverine attempt again without any canon hints
Lucariofags, I swear
>>24773183
>>24773184
>>24773191
>Aura
>Latin word for gold is "Aurum"
>Lucario's name is based on Orichalcum
>orichalcum is a gold-brass
either lucario's entire body is made out of gold, or its heart metaphorically shines like gold.
>>24773200
The photo you posted literally had the make up people were criticizing earlier in the thread
Your photo has hints of "ink" and zoroark's mane resembles a brush
Keep trying. It's funny
>>24773209
Some moonrunefag already disproved this. It doesnt translate to the kana
>>24773198
So you mean Gallade and Machamp also had heart of steel, iron will, etc? Where's the steel typing then?
>>24773212
I can read katakana too and it does, but Oracle is actually closer than orichalcum. That doesnt evade the Aurum/Aura similarity though
>>24773202
Maybe because it doesn't need to? Just because it is based on a jackal doesn't mean it has to carry every fuckong characteristic of a jackal.
Do you see Froakie with warts?
How about Pikachu with whiskers?
Do bats have giant ears resembling speakers?
Why does Blastoise have cannons?
>>24773200
Your point was about how Lucario's head is like a Jackal's and when people pointed out that you're full of shit you tried to throw back the insults by claiming Zoroark's in the same situation with kitsune, again failing to make your point since kitsune are always portraid with the same pointy snouts as Zoroak. Stay mad.
>>24773205
Did you even read the rest of the post? I was also challenging that assumption. Faggot.
>>24773082
Using that logic how did Shadow from the sonic series get even remotely popular? Remember your base color hypothesis for lucario and zoroark is similar to Sonic and Shadow along with the fact that all four designs are anthropomorphic.
I'll give you a hint, it's because the base color wasn't the problem. Zoroark's design and concept was subpar. Zoroark's typing and stats are subpar. The only thing that wasn't subpar was Zorua the pokemon it evolved from because Zorua was at least cute.
You are right that Mascot design requires you to stand out. But it also requires that your design is at least interesting in the first place which Zoroark's wasn't.
>>24773229
It's just anatomically shitty looking and detracts from the design by making it unnecessarily more anthropomorphic, and distances itself more from its inspiration when tons of canine pokemon do have proper snouts.
>>24773210
He posted a random DA image, I hope you aren't using that as some kind of supporting detail for Zoroark's design
>>24773235
>zoroark's design and concept were subpar
Zoroark's design and concept are several timea better than Lucario's, it has to do with the effectiveness of the marketing. See
>>24773080
>>24773238
How about this? People are always going about how different Yokai Watch monster design is but even their kitsune looks similar.
>>24773236
Its inspiration is Anubis. Anubis is a jackal with a human's body. Lucario hits the design right on the nail
>>24773248
Anubis still had a full Jackal's head with a proper snout on a human body though.
>>24773247
Is that a ripoff of ninetales
>>24773247
>yellow tailed fox
>purple at the end of the tail and in some details
They are not even subtle, are they?
Pokemon are just based off a animal/thing/etc.
They don't need to look exactly the same. If they did, many different franchises would have extremely similiar looking designs and it would get repetitive and boring.
>>24773252
And?>>24773229 hit of right on the nail as well. It doesn't need to be 1:1. It gets the point across.
What I'm getting from your post is that you think Lucario's design is bad because he doesn't have a proper muzzle. Its design is fine without having a huge mouth.
>>24773247
>>24773254
Looks way more like this digimon
>>24773269
It's just inconsistent with the myriad of other proper canine and lupine pokemon, and regardless of whether Lucario HAS to be 1:1 (I never said it did) it's just a flaw in and of itself regardless of its inspiration. It's a lazy artistic shorthand on the level of anime side mouth.
Guess what, even supposing for a moment it isn't a problem, it still looks inferior to a proper mouth regardless. Also the snout thing wasn't my only complaint about the design, plus this entire conversation resulted from moving the goalposts from "it does too have a proper snout" to "w-well it doesn't have to have a proper snout".
If you guys get so bothered by an unrealistic feature on a pocket MONSTER you guys should go outside instead.
>>24773240
>Zoroark's design and concept are several timea better than Lucario's
No it's not, it barely can even stand out among it's own generation's pokemon such as chandalure, meinshao, scrafty, volcarona and vanilluxe.
Zoroark's shape is malformed and exaggerated too much in the waist and hair, it's basic posture is bad (it hunches over in it's promo art), it's facial markings and hair acessory makes no sense in context and it's illusion concept feels inferior to ditto's mimic and mew's mirage concept. It doesn't help that zoroark's "illusion" is situational and frail.
>>24773282
>It's just inconsistent with the myriad of other proper canine and lupine pokemon
Because Lucario is humanoid and they aren't
>>24773240
>it has to do with the effectiveness of the marketing
To some extent, but Japanese kids just did not like Zoroark as much as Lucario.
See: Pokemon Sunday/Pokemon Smash/whatever it's called now
They had Zoroark replace Lucario for a while, only for Zoroark to get booted off so Lucario could be on the show again
Not even being in Smash Bros. would have helped Zoroark, since that has little to nothing to do with Lucario's popularity in the first place, since Lucario already been known and popular for three years (his movie came out in 2005, and Diamond & Pearl came out in 2008) before Brawl was even released
>>24773168
Why isn't gardevoir,togekiss,gallade or celebi steel types then?
>>24773168
Idiot. Lucario has literal metal protruding from it's body. It's not much, but it's enough to be steel type.
>>24773422
Because theyre not die-hard paladins except Gallade
>Celebi
Literally what the fuck does Celebi have to do with anything? And Togekiss is just a tumblrina that runs away from any form of conflict or strife nothing about them is pure of heart/heart of gold/Fullmetal
>>24772623
>shitting on Pokemon designs
A reminder to get a load of this
>>24773373
I think that Zoroark has the stronger design overall, while Lucario has the stronger design in the context of a mascot with its brighter colours and whole hero motif.
A common complaint of the (very young) viewers of GetTV is that Zoroark was scary.
>>24773611
That moth is kind of cool looking
>>24773611
A lot of those designs look a lot like Gen V Pokemon tho, especially in terms of simple shapes and eyes.
![385Jirachi[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/nzup9um.png "385Jirachi[1].png")
>>24773481
If the spikes are metal, then it stands to reason that they're part of Lucario's skeleton, and that its entire skeleton is made of metal.
Mawile is another case of this, with the Pokedex stating that its horns are made of steel.
The only Steel-type I don't really get is Jirachi.
>>24773727
That's why I like Zoroark, though. Zorua is cute but Zoroark is menacing. Why are Japs such pussies?
>>24773772
They remind me more of Gen VI's asthetics with the big heads and cartoony eyes.
>>24773778
He is a wishing star and those are actually meteors.
Meteors are made of metal.
>>24773534
Gardevoir is a paladin in every way except fighting style, it will throw away its life for its trainer, in fact gallade is just Gardevoir but with swords.
Celebi is a forest guardian it looks after nature, are you not familiar with it?
>being this trigged by togekiss
>>24773611
>shady mosquito
>two ass-kicking beetles
>pocket god pygmy
What's wrong here again?
>>24773056
This, some npcs actually use zoroark in the battle maison and it works better. Although you quickly figure it out and learn to see them coming.
>>24773097
Good point
>>24774291
Zoroark doesn't exist despite team preview though, it exists because of it. Illusion would be broken bullshit without illusion because you'd have to consider that virtually every pokemon is possibly a zoroark, and of course that's unfeasible so it just turns into a shitty sac for the zoro player.
>>24773056
Team Preview is only a problem for Zoroark in Smogon's 6v6 format
In Battle Spot Singles, which are 3v3, you don't even have to use Zoroark, and Team Preview is basically just telling that your opponent will be using three of these six Pokemon, so you can make an informed selection
>>24774317
>broken
please, he's is still frail as fuck
>>24772832
Oh stop being a baby. Just because something is popular you don't have to be a contrarian and not like them. Lucario is hated in this place but it is still one of my favorite pokemon ever.
Literal autists ITT.
