>there is still no character more complex than N in Pokemon
Pathetic
To be honest, they set the bar so high with N for franchise aimed at children that anything higher is trite Final Fantasy bullshit.
I think we're good with a myriad of comfty, simple characters at this point in time.
Care to elaborate?
>>24772123
>gen 5 will forever remain the one where the gym leaders aren't just one dimensional NPCs whose whole lives revolve around working for the league as type "masters"
The writing wasn't stellar, but so much better than anything in the whole franchise.
>>24772123
Zinnia
![Red_Blue_Giovanni[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/auZNqjk.png "Red_Blue_Giovanni[1].png")
>>24772157
>the one where the gym leaders aren't just one dimensional NPCs whose whole lives revolve around working for the league as type "masters"
Gen V autists are fucking adorable.
>>24772129
>>24772157
Yeah it kinda ruins the whole gen 6 for me since we got back to shitty characters and plots, this franchise doesnt get better with each iteration unfortunately.
>>24772163
They didn't exactly do a good job on her, though. You're basically left with more questions than respect for her.
>>24772123
>complex
Please leave and take you demigender "so deep" shit character with you
>N
>complex
imagine actually thinking this
>>24772163
Not even close, nigga. Although Zinnia's actions are pretty zany at first, her motives are actually simple and easily understood. She was told Rayquaza was the only way to stop the meteor and that she would have to summon it. She did just that the way she knew how.
N is a character who's been brainwashed by a morally bankrupt father figure to the point that he hates humanity. He's fed the delusion that he's a king. At some point, the friendship that you have with your Pokemon, which N understands due to his ability to speak with them, as well as your determination and strength, finally manage to convince him that his whole understanding of the world is flawed. Zinnia had to come to terms with the fact that she couldn't do everything by herself; N had to realize that the whole ideal of his life wasn't based on the truth.
>>24772182
>>24772185
Give me more complex characters than N then.
>>24772170
1/8. How are you going to explain away (in-game) Brock, Misty, and Erika?
![tumblr_lhnkt8o6kR1qbr13ao1_500[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3isjY1P.jpg "tumblr_lhnkt8o6kR1qbr13ao1_500[1].jpg")
>>24772197
Probably in the same way you might try to explain away these guys.
>>24772174
That's the main problem, though.
The more you try to outdo a previous iteration in a certain aspect, the more the audience expects that aspect to remain, if not improve in the next game.
Doing complex stories and characters isn't a bad thing, but in piling these things up excessively, it ruins the integrity of Pokemon, which, at its roots, is simply a game about catching and collecting mons. This is why you seldom see any semblance of complex story in Mario (need I mention Paper Star) and other franchises with no apparent expiration date.
Also with the increase in "complexity" is the increase in focus on human characters rather than Pokemon themselves.
>>24772209
They have jobs, at least. The also make some pretty damn good tea, or so I hear. And the fact that their gym counters your starter type is totally unique. They're also given more story through Memory Link in B2W2. They also have notable personalities: Chili's a hothead, Cress is pretty pompous, and Cilan's a peacekeeper.
Your move, friendo.
>>24772209
It's a game based on the US -- NY. You need commoners' work to be presentunless you want thousands of SJWs complaing about how only beautiful people like Skyla and Elesa get to be gym leaders haHhwhHahahHhahahaHAHAHhhahHahaH
>>24772170
I don't really get how a single character invalidates the whole point about gen 5 having more interesting characters. Giovanni being the final gym leader was kind of unexpected, but Ghetsis taking over the Pokemon League and giving the player one of the most challenging battles in the whole series was a level or two above RBYs "twist".
>>24772197
I think Blaine was a nice character as well, despite his backstory being kind of hidden in the lore in-game.
>Goes out of his way to categorize & label you and your friends
>Gets pissy & battles you when you don't see eye to eye
>Proceeds to bitch & moan about the pokedex because it categorizes pogeymonz, and that somehow strips them of their individuality
>All while being completely oblivious to the shit he spouted 2 minutes prior
There's a difference between complex and just fucking retarded.
>>24772123
Don't bother making threads like these man because there will always be people who will get whiny cause their favourite character wasn't praised instead
>>24772313
So basically "I didn't pay attention to the story and just skimmed through the dialogue and now I pretend I know everything"
dude hope lmao
>>24772428
>Zinnia hatred in a nutshell
>>24772437
Zinnia would've been a better character if they spent more time on her but the sadly Delta episode was already kind of messy and keeps throwing things here and there
>>24772123
The only thing even remotely complex about N is his Menger Sponge keychain.
>>24772447
I dont think Delta episode was supposed to be the only time where Zinnia appears. I think its only her introduction mainly because we still dont know almost anything about her past.
Im almost 100% sure she will appear in Zygarde game since she is a draconid, a dragon type trainer and of course Zygarde is a dragon with some crazy lore behind it (all the formes). Not to mention most of Zinnia's team are Kalos's dragons so there you go
>>24772457
That better be the case. Delta episode left a salty taste in my mouth. It'd also give her a chance to redeem herself from her large amount of haters.
It's hilarious to see them go from complex characters in Gen V to shit like the XY rivals honestly
>>24772471
XY rivals still had more personality than most of charcaters from the first three gens
>>24772471
why did it happen
>>24772478
Shh the genwunners might hear you
First two gens I agree though, gen 3 was okay-ish
>complex characters
>pokemon
pick one
>>24772503
How bout complex characters for Pokemon
That sounds fair to you?
>>24772503
>>24772512
Still more complex than most animu shit we get today tb.h
>>24772157
But they also weren't like that in gen IV.
>>24772123
complex in the sense that he's a daddissues autist?
>mfw gen V's story was hot dogshit and the only reason it's praised is because it had one
>>24772547
I'd rank it Gen V, Gen IV then.. Gen I? Just to make the genwunners happy?
...Yeah.
>>24772549
Time for bed anon
>>24772552
Was pretty okay actually
Just that GF is still desperate to make sure younger audiences will also understand it is holding them back
>>24772123
Why the hell did you make his thread? Pokemon isn't about complex characters or plots and this will only start retarded shitting on BW.
>>24772170
>liking Gen V is autism
You don't even know how to use it, dumbass.
gen 5s has terrible writing though
more stuff =/= better stuff, blue, silver and wally were complete one note characters and in terms of writing they're far better than anything gen v has to offer and they even have the decency not to stop you every time 10-15 minutes to remind you that they exist
>>24772306
That's fair. I'll give you that one.
>>24772547
Except Gen II should come next thanks to Morty and their HGSS appearances.
>>24773736
Meant to reply to >>24772555
>>24773649
>they didn't stop you every 10 to 15 mins
Holy shit, genwunning at its finest. How many Blue encounters do you think were in the game. Count them up. Now, compare them to the number of N encounters.
Each Blue encounter showed no new development for his character. It was just another fucking battle. Every battle with N, you had the chance to pickup something. Not to mention he used different Pokemon each time, so his battles were vastly more fun and interesting.
>>24773771
>blue
Aw jeez. You meeting and battling him at Silph Co. was fucking obnoxious in particular.
>>24773771
pokemon black and white 2 literally stops you every time you enter a new city or route to remind you that the characters exist, blue pops up like 7 times over the entire game
in the older games they had the decency to recognise that you could communicate character development through things other than just text, hence blue's jacket and silver's crobat (evolves from happyness)
their teams incrementally improve as they add type coverage and improve their pokemon with new moves and evolution
reusing the same teams but stronger each time reinforces the rivalry that's supposed to be going on between the two of you, i don't see how this is less interesting than a team full of wild pokemon from nearby routes
>>24773856
I liked seeing them slowly develop though so I guess it just depends on whether you liked them in the first place
I liked them so of course I enjoyed seeing them pop up regularly
>>24772123
N is not that old anyways.
>>24772157
>tfw the pokemon fanbase hates good writing so we will never have something better than Gen 5
>>24772185
He said more complex in pokemon. Not that N is complex, but definitely closer than any other character, according to him. To prove him wrong you have to post a pokemon character that's more complex than him.
>>24772212
>Doing complex stories and characters isn't a bad thing, but in piling these things up excessively, it ruins the integrity of Pokemon, which, at its roots, is simply a game about catching and collecting mons.
You can do that while also having a decent story. Of course, if they know the fanbase want trite shit they will keep making trite shit.
>Also with the increase in "complexity" is the increase in focus on human characters rather than Pokemon themselves.
That's a good thing tho. Pokemon are more cool monsters, they can't be much of a character within the main games settings. That's why MD changes the setting completely to allow for that.
>>24773971
Don't tempt him man we have enough arguments here
People should just respect other's opinions more instead of spouting insults everywhere
>>24772428
/vp/ in a nutshell
>>24773982
>People should just respect other's opinions more instead of spouting insults everywhere
>respecting retarded opinions
>>24773997
Further proves my point
>>24774005
How?
>>24774022
You think everybody else's opinions who aren't the same as yours are retarded.
>>24774027
No, but opinions have to have a basis, they arent all inherently good.
Opinions who dont shouldnt be respected, people should be more critical. So no, not all opinions should be respected.
>>24774038
Well, true.
I was talking about the people who think people's opinions are retarded just because they aren't the same as theirs, basis or not.
>>24773856
You're talking about ONE character and comparing it to the ENTIRE cast of BW. That's demented. If you're going to talk about N, Cheren, Bianca, Juniper, and Team Plasma combined, then you have to compare it to Oak and his army of aides, Blue, and all of Team Rocket.
>>24772193
Zinnia
>>24774243
This meme again
>>24774243
This is getting really pathetic
>>24774248
>>24774269
>Last lorekeeper of her tribe
>Has to fulfil her destiny that has been planned for over 1000 years
>Comes into conflict with another "destined" figure and another faction that is intruding on her destiny
>Over time starts to realize everything isn't always locked to destiny
>Changes her destiny
>Turns over a new leaf and travels to understand the new world around her
>>24774272
>bitch is wrong about everything and almost ends the world
>game expects you to like her anyway
Zinnia is one note as hell. "muh lore".
>>24774272
"exotic" backstory ≠ complex character
>>24774308
The complexity comes from the challenge of ideals, nature VS technology, and destiny.
>>24774319
There is no challenge though. Zinnia just forces all her actions, and then pussies out from her own duty so the player can do stuff themselves.
>>24774272
All that happened with her was that she was told Rayquaza could destroy the meteor so she was going to do that. She failed, then did a logical thing and decided she was wrong after all.
She doesn't appear long enough to be fleshed out and complex.
Her story is just vague.
>>24774322
Meant to say clash, and that clash is evident during that big showdown at Mossdeep Space Center
