Competitively, which of these Fire types is best overall?
Discuss.
Infernape has more overall reliability as well as a flexible move pool.
Houndoom especially with it's mega require's a sun team to work with
The other two are just equally shitty.
>>24763814
Darmanitanszen modemakes himshit
>>24763831
Well this is wrong. Houndoom is the worst even with its mega, it just isnt strong or fast enough.
Infernape has always been a decent lead with Fake Out, Taunt, Stealth Rock and even Endeavor to go with a Focus sash. It even has a lot more options thanks to its good offensive stats and coverage.
Rape ape is a great scarfer or even choice band because of how strong it is, i would say better then the two prior.
Arcanine may be the best, it too has versatility but is seen best probably as a faster physical wall thanak to Intimidate and its move pool, just ends up being great.
They fill different niches. Infernape is extremely versatile and can be a revenge killer, a late game sweeper, or a lead. Arcanine can play offensively and defensively, it is a pretty balanced pokemon. Darmanitan cleans house late game.
Only Houndoom is shit.
Arca9
>>24763855
>Houndoom is the worst even with its mega
lel no
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-viability-ranking-thread-v4-see-post-278-page-12.3553516/
Rape Ape and RK9 aren't even viable in OU.
Overall it's infernape with good mixed attaxk stats, great speed and a huge movepool (nasty plot, swords dance, rocks, endeavor, priority, coverage out the ass)
Offensively I would prefer to use entei over darmanitan and arcanine because of higher speed, higher bulk, extremespeed and le spammable high damage fire of probable burns. Darmanitan at least does hit harder and arcanine can use a defensive set to take advantage of intimidate and morning sun.
If we're talking about Mega houndoom, it's pretty bad but not completely awful. With a sweet 115 speed, nasty plot and other useful moves (dbond, taunt). It and infernape have viability rankings in OU. If we're talking about normal houndoom it's the worst for the 4 pictured
>>24763814
Arcanine has the best potential for an amazing mega due to the having already great stats, colorful move pool (with reliable recovery nonetheless) and Intimidate.
>>24763953
mega houndoom and infernape are both in C+ tier in the page you linked.
I'd say Infernape > M-houndoom
Even though M-houndoom has some really solid stats it's movepool is pretty shallow (dark pulse, fire blast, taunt, WoW, and NP) with the basic setup foregoing either taunt or WoW.
as >>24763855 said, infernape has several different sets and a ton of moves available.
Arcanine isn't really fair to compare, it suffers from the gen 1 syndrome of having too balanced of a stat setup to be particularly good at anything.
I'd say
Infernape > M-houndoom > Darmanitan > Arcanine
but without it's mega houndoom would be the most shit by far
>>24763814
>thought I had this thread in the thread watcher
You've led me to a false conclusion 7/10
>>24763953
>Post intelligently, posts like I believe Pokemon x belongs in this tier will be deleted
Try jolly, intimidate, life orb Arcanine with FB, CC, E-Speed, and Wild Charge as a revenge killer/ wall breaker. It's the least narrow of all four and really does survive well in ou. It's not our fault smogon finds stealth rock endeavour and sun team shanantics more viable than genuine good pokemon.
>>24764183
>Arcanine
>good
It's seriously mediocre in OU. It's not bad, but none of its stats are any good either. Add in a shit typing and it's really not that great. I like Arcanine, but there's just no reason to use it in OU, whereas Houndoom and Infernape have some sort of niche.
>>24763814
Infernape is great as a Lead, as a mixed sweeper, and as a SD/NP sweeper.
Arcanine is a good physical wall and a nice bulky band.
Houndoom is kinda shit.
Darmanitan is a great scarf and can troll with flame charge + belly drum.
Infernape is the best because versatility.
Well Infernape as a lead isn't the best idea, since the defensiv stats are really low. Attack with 104 on both isn't the best either. 108 speed is nice, but there are faster pokemon. I would use it late game with Close Combat spam. Iron Fist Mach Punch for the fast pokemon. Thunder Punch for cover and a strong fire attack. Overall Infernape is decent. Was good in Gen 4, but today it really lost it's worth with all the quick mons out yet and Speed Boost Blaziken and Greninjas existence.
Arcanine is also not quite good. High attack and speed, but movepool lacks.
Houndoom is also not good. Defense is shit. Speed is good and Sp.Attack is low high tier.
M-Houndoom isn't great either.
Darmanitan Trance is the best of the bunch. Extremly high attack stats and defense stats aren't bad either. Speed is also good.
>>24764387
Nigga you are absolutely fucking crazy.
Infernape > mega houndoom > rape ape > arcanine > houndoom
All UU except doom.
Infernape is fucking GOAT in UU. Houndooms mega (was) the best, but now suffers because you only get one mega. Arcanine is just only just not good enough in everything. 95 speed is 5-10 too slow. Offences are 10 or so points away from being good enough. Same with defences. Movepool is all over the place but each set is missing something.
Darmanitan is just a wallbreaker. It does its job.
Regular houndoom is ass.
So just use Charizard or Talonflame, then? Got it.
>>24764687
Finally someone gets it.
>>24764719
It's kind of sad, but yeah. Talonflame has 126 speed and priority Brave Bird, so it does revenge killing and late game sweeping much better than Infernape. Infernape can lead, but that's pretty much all it has and sometimes people straight up flee from Talonflame lead anyway.
And all those pokemon are subpar when put up against Mega Charizard X or Y.
Darmanitan has a bigger movepool than Talonflaem and isn't 4x weak to Stealth Rock, and has Sheer Force, so it's a better late game sweeper, but it can ONLY be a late game sweeper due to its lower speed.
Nothing that was good in Gen 4 or 5 is truly bad in this gen and Arcanine may not be great at anything but it's still solid. I don't know why people say it's NOT VIABLE. It's definitely viable.
Only Houndoom is really bad.
>>24764719
Or heatran
R u kidding i have an arcanine with flame thrower sunny day morning sun( breed in move ) and solarbeam in pokemon soul silver and he NVR DIED LITTERALY sunny day then flame thrower or solarbeam depending on opponents type then morning sun of he gets hurt will restore 2/3 full health this is no contest for arcanine
>>24764824
>in-game
CONGRATS A POGEYMON MASTER IS YOU
>Arcanine too slow
>Arcanine's movepool is lacking
>Arcanine not worth using
How have so many people on /vp/ not used Arcanine? Reminder that the Big Dog will always be useable in OU if you aren't a total shitter.
>>24764824MODS
>>24764352
>Darmanitan can troll with flame charge + belly drum
Have you actually tried that? There is zero chance of that actually working how you think it will.
>>24766142
Post replays, then
>>24766142
Arcanine is good, it isn't great and that's the problem.
95 speed is slow now
110 attack is nice but it isn't breaking walls
100 spa is nice but again it isn't breaking walls
90/80/80 bulk is pretty good especially with intimidate, but it isn't going to wall anything especially given the ground weakness.
>walling physical attackers with a ground weakness
yeah no.
Arcanine is the jack of all trade master of none. There is always a better option.
>>24766174
>>24766142
oh and it has no setup which is the real killer, because with it's nice bulk and moderate offence it'd be a fucking great setup pokemon.
DD when.
>>24764824
>>24766174
Arcanine has so much potential for an amazing mega. More so than Darmatian and Infernape (these will most likely end up weaker than life orb variants).
He's really just waiting in the bench for his turn to kick asses.
Infernape >= Mega Houndoom > Don't bother
Infernape is neat for a few different roles, the two best sets being the defensive and mixed sets. The defensive set is a good dark check and stallbreaker, though it doesn't fare well against the current stall teams. Mixed is a good breaker if you can justify using it overKeldeo.
Mega Houndoom hits like a goddamn truck and usually has a moveslot to spare, but it's fragile and usually falls on its face againt offense.
Darmanitan is frail, one-dimensional, and outclassed. Not worth using over the other physical fires.
Offensive Arcanine is outclassed by Entei in the specific role of "breaker with extremespeed" and by a host of different mons in less niche roles. Defensive sets are mediocre and usually outclassed, maybe it was a niche pick in the Mawile meta. Now I can't justify using it.
>regular Houndoom
>>24764719
Meh. They're top tier for a reason, but you have a few other options for fire types.
>>24764764
>Darmanitan is a better late game sweeper than Talonflame
Try again.
Arcanine isn't viable because I have zero reason to use it over its competitors. It might be "usable," but never optimal.
>>24766367
This, glad someone else gets it.
Mega Houndoom is difficult to get in, but with a nasty plot, possibly with sun out? I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
His main problem is that he wants for a good sun setter, and the best one in his tier is also a mega. DESU, he's better in ubers than he is in OU, but even then who's going to waste their mega slot in ubers on him?
>>24766177
>yfw mega Arcanine, Fire/Dragon with DD and Fire type ate ability
>can use already Outrage, maybe will get Dragon Claw too
Would he gone even further beyond?
Infernape for a decent ability and a good movepool.
Arcanine and Darmanitan can sweep late game.
Houndoom, mega or otherwise, is trash.
>>24763814
Infernape is the only one I could reasonably ever see myself using in ou. The problem with darm is that it's just too slow, even though it's incredibly powerful the bad defensive typing and slow speed just means that it's going to die to something faster than it if i don't run scarf and even then lots of scarfers are faster and ohko it. It's also weak to rocks with no healing so that makes it complete garbage. Houndoom is garbage too for fairly obvious reasons. It's mega will never be good enough to justify it over pretty much anything else that exists in the tier, it has a niche as an np stallbreaker but there are much better ones, especially with the upcoming ban of sab doom loses it's niche even more. Arcanine is just shit, too slow, doesnt hit hard enough, not bulky enough to be defensive. It just doesn't work.
I'd say:
Infernape > Houndoom > Arcanine=Darmanitan
Infernape has lots of different sets. You can use it as a lead, or you can make a physical, special, or mixed sweeper since it's one of the only pokemon with both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, and enough attacking power on both ends to use it.
Houndoom sucks on its own, but Mega Houndoom is actually pretty good. It learns Nasty Plot, and you get some powerful Fire Blasts and Dark Pulses. Only problem is special walls and Mach Punch... Except Clefable still gets killed by a +2 Sludge Bomb or Fire Blast, and can't OHKO Mega Houndoom without boosts anyway. So, Houndoom is pretty good as long as you're willing to use your mega slot. non-mega Houndoom is ass.
Arcanine and Darmanitan are about the same power level in my opinion. Arcanine can be used defensively, but it's a weird niche and Heatran does it better. As an attacker, Arcanine is outclassed by Infernape, among other things. Darmanitan is all right, but it only really does wallbreaking, usually choiced, although I've seen Life Orb on it too. Victini is better in every way. Hell, Physical Infernape is better most of the time too, since Infernape isn't outsped by everything. As sad as it seems, having speed below 100 is a real shortcoming now, and Darmanitans strengths don't really make up for it.
>>24763814
The best competitive Fire Type are MCharizard Y as nuke and Heatran as versatile Tank. Talonflame is mostly used as a physical Flying-Type Attacker factoring the Fairy and Steel Resist that Fire- gives, sometime it uses Overheat but is a rare sight.
Infernape can have some use as a mix of heavy hitter disruptor thanks to Close Combat and Overheat. The other two are a toss up between Fake Out, Quick Guard, Protect or Feint. It has its niche and it does well.
MHoundoom is another kind of nuke, MCharizard Y works for himself, MHoundoom works with the whole team, you don't even need to use Sun or just can use Meowstic/Sableye to set up and start to dish damage. Solar Boost bolster the Special Attack per se, basically giving it a Choice Specs without being locked, Solar Boost Sun boosted Heat Wave dish out a huge damage even against it resist, and it's one of the few Dark Types that don't care too much about Fairies, the other being Bisharp. This said, it sees few use.
Arcanine is an all-around player, if you use at as dedicated attacker, you're better using Darmanitan, if you're using as a support or Tank, its better using Cresselia, Meowstic(M) as support or Heatran as a tank.
You can throw as a offensive tank/support thanks to Intimidate, Extreme Speed, Flare Blitz and two of Morning Sun, Helping Hand or Will-o-Wisp.I personally have two Arcanine, an offensive one with FBlitz, ESpeed CC and Morning Sun, and a defensive one with Helping Hand, Will-o-Wisp, Morning Sun and Heat Wave
Darmanitan, most people say that it's slow, but it has raw power and slapping a Scarf on it makes it up. With inmediate power, it can dish heavy damage if the opposition isn't prepared. Remember that in Doubles, Scarf isn't everywhere and Darmanitan can dish heavy damage even after Intimidate.
All of them have their uses, but sadly, they aren't the best. It all boils down to team composition.
You'd never use any of them in OU, but you might use Arcanine in doubles.
Arcanine wins.
>>24772352
I have used and would use Infernape in OU.
>>24769192
>In doubles scarf isn't everywhere.
Yeah because no one uses LandoT.
>>24766758
You've never played competitively, have you?
>>24773054
None of the Lando-T in the Top 8 used Choice Scarf, since everyone was prepared for them. Landorus could use Scarf, but it's not its only option.
Outside of Landorus, you have Hydreigon, Tyranitar and Gardevoir in the cut of Pokémon using Scarf, and you should know, only Tyranitar runs a +Spe Nature if they use Scarf, Gardevoir is a toss up, and Hydreigon runs definitely Modest, Landorus anywhere between Adamant/Impish/Careful; Jolly Landorus-T almost never uses Choice Scarf. Darmanitan could run Jolly easily with a Scarf slapped.
>>24763831
my impish arcanine wants to call you a faggot
>>24763814
I love running Jolly-Scarf Darm as a U-turn lead.
Everyone expects Flare Blitz so they switch. You get two scouts for the price of one and Darm doesn't even get hurt. It also allows you to maintain momentum and keep the advantage in your corner as you switch to something that can handle what the opponent is running.
On top of that, it keeps the opponent guessing as to what your play is considering no one runs U-turn on a scarfed Darm and they won't know what other unorthodox moves you have.
>>24774545
>considering no one runs U-turn on a scarfed Darm
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/darmanitan/
>>24763814
Darmanitan is the most spammable
Infernape is also a good glass cannon thanks to that STAB Close Combat and can also run mixed
Houndoom is decent but the fact that sacrifices his item to mega evolve and the stupid ability hinders it down
Arcanine isn't that great compared with to the rest, defensive with rocky helmet is a decent set but shit like EQ/Stone Edge still fuck him up and banded isn't really that worthed considering Entei exists
>>24774545
>considering no one runs U-turn on a scarfed Darm
Am I in bizarro /vp/?
Hell, literally everyone with Scarf Darmanitan always leads with it and then either uses FB or just U-turns out. It's annoying as fuck.
>>24772480
Gen 4, please go.
>>24774775
It's like you don't want a good Bisharp check
>>24775710
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 218-257 (74.4 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
kek
>>24775719
>+4 252+ Atk Life Orb burned Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Infernape: 160-188 (45 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
kek
>>24763831
Infernape can learn Grass Knot.
FUCKIN' GRASS KNOT.
