Gen 7:
>Knock Offs base power lowered to 60
>It doubles in power(to 120) when used on a pokemon holding an item that can be removed
>It's now a TM
>Every pokemon learns it(including those that don't learn TMs otherwise, like Unown)
How does the meta change?
>>24751704
>weavile still doesn't get sucker punch
:^)
>>24751713
What would Sucker Punch even help it against? Mega Alakazam? A couple of Scarf users?
>>24751704
>60bp.
That's a buff for Scizor and anything else with Technician.
>>24752064
This. The reason it has 65 bp is literally just so things like Scizor can't just run Banded Knock Off and nuke the majority of things that don't resist and cripple the things that do. Make it 45 bp or don't nerf its base power, nerf its effects. Make Knock Off only knock certain items off, or give it 5 pp so it can't be spammed.
>>24752124
5pp means 8 after pp ups. That's enough to use it on each pokemon. If it had 60 power scizor would only need 6 to sweep.
>Knock Offs base power lowered to 60
>It doubles in power(to 120) when used on a pokemon holding an item that can be removed
This is like making Scald 70 BP with a 50% chance to burn.
>>24751713
That would be kinda broken on him.
>>24752161
a base 70 speed pokemon (after MEvo) isn't going to use a 0 priority non stab move to sweep
>>24751704
>>24752064
>>24752124
Technician users dont need any more buffs. Thank you very much
>>24752214
roserade and persian and mr. mime need more buffs
Knock Off needs to be nerfed to 40BP (that gets an increase to 60BP if the opposing pokémon is holding an item) and act only as an utility move for a few select pokémon. One of the things that used to run Knock Off was Tangrowth with its Mojonbo Rules set, and I think that's a much better way to handle it. 40BP is a decent compromise that ensures that Technician users can still make decent use of it. Compare:
>[65BP] 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 175-206 (43.3 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
>[40BP] 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Knock Off (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 162-191 (40 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
And itemless:
>[65BP] 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO
>[40BP] 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 108-128 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Still a half-decent move for Dark types, while discouraging a wider adoption.
>>24752287
nah
>>24752240
They would be buttfucked by Scisor and Breloom from Monday to Sunday church just like the rest of the metagame.
No.
>>24752298
Knock Off was fine with 20 BP. Buffing it was retarded and people are suggesting even more buffs?
>>24752407
nothing ran knock off before the buff. the whole point of buffing it was to encourage its use so that items had a counter.
>>24752438
Nothing runs Water Pulse either, guess we should buff it. 90 BP, 50% chance of confusion. It'll do wonders for the meta.
>>24752466
mega launcher water pulse is better than surf though
>>24752240
Think of something else because Breloom and Scizor are already good for the meta. Too good, I would say
>>24752438
I'd say 40 bp is good for it without adding a removal boost. It's alright for damage with technician but its main use is its utility. People still being that piece of shit Rapid Spin and its only 20 power
Nerf Knock Off to 10 BP, but give it the ability to Knock Off Mega Stones.
>>24751754
It would fucking body Talonflame in most circumstances cause fuck that guy.
>>24752466
might as well, people would still use Scald over it tho.
>>24752724
Technicians dont need ANY more buff. I dont care if its 40 BP, sure that's just 20 extra BP BUT that just means only technicians will run the move. Just stop
>>24753485
Then boost it to 65 without boosts and call it a day. What do you want from a utility move?
>>24753551
Now you're making sense
>>24752724
Would people use Defog more over Rapid Spin if it was a legitimate tutor move in ORAS? I feel like it's really shitty that Defog got a massive buff but the only way to get it is through a transfer from DPP or levelling up on mons that aren't OU relevant as it is, and being able to not be blocked by Ghosts seems like a big advantage over something that does miniscule damage for the sake of preserving your own entry hazards.
Hey faggots, OP here. Since GF made Knock Off specifically as a buff to megas and to promote them, i made the thread with the idea that GF AGAIN buffs Knock Off to make megas stronger.
>>24751704
Remove power boost
>Imposter Ditto with Knock Off
kek
way to ruin it
>>24754508
>Magikarp with Knock Off
UBERS HERE WE COME
>>24754452
Knock off came way before megas faggot
>>24755990
>reading comprehension
Gen 7
>Knock Off's BP is now 75
>no bonus on removing items
Fixed it.
