You know whats the problem with VGC? Fucking legendaries. Especially pic related.
It doesnt make for a fun meta when everyone has atleast 3 legendaries.
>>24688200
Any Pokémon can be beat.
Stop crying.
BREAKING NEWS, GENIES ARE BROKEN!
>>24688231
>t-this meta t-totally isn't centralized, n-no sir!
>>24688240
Legendary Pokémon Haters, Everywhere.
:[
Pokémon is a Pokémon.
No matter, what.
>>24688308
>:[
>>24688320
nice thumbnail faggot
>>24688325
>thumbnail
>that
lurk moar
>>24688231
>Mega Raqyauaza can be beat therefore it's not broken as fuck
>>24688325
>>24688200
They should ban legendaries from VGC. It's too special snowflake. Capture the feeling that kids had watching the anime where people didn't use legendaries and the ones who did are known as faggots
>>24688357
Exactly. I don't even care about 'muh articuno'fags. Pokemon should have the feel of a tournament where people on a level playing field compete to be the best, not some jackass spamming his darkrai to effortlessly defeat anyone who hasn't happened to run across a pseudo-god.
>>24688357
I concur.
The problem is that the legendaries are too centralizing to the meta. All teams look the same, and will continue to do so until theyre banned.
It would force people to start using more varied teams, because now Landorus-T is the best groundtype, zapdos/Thundurus is the best electric type etc..
>>24688357
>>24688374
The thing is that being legendary doesn't mean much anymore, especially with broken shit like Megamom.
>>24688401
Legendary is just an arbitrary title at this point.
There's nothing separating them from com mons.
>>24688401
I appreciate your efforts at being logical but it's futile in these threads.....these people can't see the forest for the trees and think legendary is synonymous with broken even though the vast majority of non box art "legendaries" pale in comparison to shit like salamence and kangaskhan.
You know why Lando t is broken? Because it has a good typing and intimidate.....if anything else that had that many key resistances and intimidate came out I guarantee it'd get used just as much even if you caught it on route one.
>>24688231
>Any Pokemon can be beat.
Why is this still an argument for brokenness again?
I mean I disagree with OP I think the genies and "legendaries" are fine, but people that use arguments like this are really comical. kek.
>>24688438
>retards literally think genies would be used with 400 bst
>>24688479
>smeargle, amoongus, klefki, etc
BST doesn't make the fucking pokemon otherwise slaking and regigigas would be good....it's a combination of all its assets that makes something good or not.
>>24688420
Well you can't breed them to make them better so what you get is what you have to use.
>>24688401
Megamom is broken but the less stupidly strong Pokemon, the better. Legendaries happen to have some of the strongest Pokemon and fuck with the lore / worldbuilding of Pokemon.
>>24688438
Its the base stats thats key. Thats the reason why other pokemon arent looked at and just dismissed as an "inferior xxx"
>>24688486
yeah when you can spam fucking spore you'll get used. genies aren't used because they're one of the very rare pokemon that can use some move. they're used because they have stupid levels of power on top of everything else going for them
>>24688496
Which is exactly my fucking point. They get used because on top of their BST they have a lot going for them....if they made any other fucking similar thing, "Legendary" or not it would get used. II'm trying to point out the fact that legendary doesn't have shit to do with it.
>>24688401
>>24688420
They're no different except for the fact that they have 600BST, perfect abilities and outclasses almost every other pokemon of their type.
Subject B Cresselia
One of the most common defensive mon. Why?
Not because any particular ability or moves, but its ridicolous 120/126/126 defenses and still having decent atk and speed stats.
okay, so...
Mega Kangaskhan stays
Landorus cut for Krookodile, sine both are earthquake spam with intimidate
Cresselia replaced with some other bulky psychic, probably Bronzong or Metagross or something.
Heatran can be cut for Volcarona, if that counts as non legendary (It can breed, so it shouldn't)
Plenty of choices for Amoongus replacements.
Oh look, it's the same strategy on every team but with slightly different pokemon fulfilling the same roles.
Banning legends changes nothing.
>>24688491
>lore / worldbuilding of Pokemon
LOL
>>24688551
Oh, yeah, almost forgot Thundurus. You can use Liepard or Klekfi for a lot of the same stuff.
>>24688551
Don't theorymon. You aren't good at it.
Perhaps if like Sky Forme Shaymin, you can knock the djinns out of their therian formes by freezing them.
>>24688551
>Krookodile
>implying people use Lanodus because it has STAB EQ and Intimidate, rather than STAB EQ, Intimidate, monstrous attack, Ground/Flying typing giving it immunity to both EQ and Discharge, Superpower, and other factors
>Bronzong
>implying Psychic is a good defensive type and Cresselia is used because of, rather than in spite of, its Psychic typing
>>24688551
I get your point but at least try a bit harder with the replacements
Krookodile doesn't have the speed, doesn't have Rock Polish and can't go special.
Metagross is already used in offensive manners, Bronzong has no healing moves
Heatran is also used more for the defensive typing, while also being useful offensively
>>24688534
And you're completely full of shit when you say that because 600 bst absolutely has a lot to do with how much they're used. Not to mention how recently even trios are intentionally overloaded when they're being designed.
From a lore perspective they make tournaments feel like massive faggotry because you have all these 1 of a kind pokemon on literally every trainers team because they'll faceroll someone who tries to make a team of 6 normal mons. And you're trying to brush past the fact that they're not breed-able forcing people to inject.
>>24688551
See thats my point. You would end up with more varied teams if you suddenly cant use the ones that excel at everything.
>>24688534
Their legendary status is why the have a good ability and bst you ass
>>24688200
If they ban or limit legendaries pseudos should go along with them as well.
just use scarf primeape paired up with a weavile
weavile has the fastest fake out (non-mega) in the game, while primeape will take those intimidates and shove it up their asses
meanie removal machine
>>24688399
yeah and after they ban those there'll just be a next best ground type than everyone spams, a next best electric type that everyone spams, etc
banning legendaries doesn't fix SHIT
>>24688587
>You would end up with more varied teams
No you wouldn't. You would just end up with a different set of same Pokemon that everyone uses.
>>24688621
at least you would be able to breed for them
>>24688621
No you would end up with 2-3 different pokemon for every typer since you wont have any single pokemon thats the best at everything.
>>24688676
Clefable is the best Fairy. SHIT let's ban Clefable
Amoonguss is the best Grass type. SHIT let's ban Amoonguss
Gengar is the best Ghost type. SHIT let's ban Gengar
legendaries aren't inherently the best just because they're legendary and there are plenty of normal Pokemon that are leaps and bounds over most other Pokemon.
>>24688642
everyone who plays seriously hacks anyway. No one gives a shit.
>>24688583
Your argument about lore doesn't mean shit because it's a competitive game and at the end numbers are what matter. Nobody gives a fuck that it ruins your immersion seeing more than one Mewtwo or some shit, it's a competition. And BST is only part of the fucking equation, it helps but it doesn't make the pokemon broken by itself...get it through your fucking skull.
>>24688599
So kyurem, the regis, birds, shaymin, meloetta, diancie, regular hoopa, and the musketeers are all broken as shit too right? I mean they have to be....they're fucking legendary.
>>24688724
Even the legendries' you listed still have a leg up on similar non legendary mons. Simple math kid, no reason to get your panties in a bunch.
>>24688744
Well shit, I'm going to start using registeel instead of mega aggron, meloetta instead of gardevoir, cobalion instead of lucario, and kyurem instead of any other fucking special attacking dragon.
I've been doing it wrong for so long.
>>24688724
Your argument that the genies aren't OP because there are other legendaries that have high bst but no OP ability is retarded. You are completely side stepping everyone's point and aren't smart enough to understand that.
>>24688766
Shit might as well, it'll match your gennies. That way, everyone on battlespot can tell you're a noob and a smoginite.
>>24688543
There's like 20 "legendaries" with sub 600 BST
>>24688767
On the contrary, I think the genies are broke as all shit and I hate landorus with a passion. I'm just tired of all the "ban legendaries, they ruin my experience!!" shit.
Those two are annoying as shit but it doesn't have anything to fucking do with being one of stationary encounters.
>>24688779
Oh yeah the ones that don't get play anyway. Wouldn't want all their fans to be offended.
>>24688611
And then they don't lead with double genies. Grats on your niche picks, you just lost the match.
>>24688691
>Clefable is the best Fairy. SHIT let's ban Clefable
>Gengar is the best Ghost type. SHIT let's ban Gengar
This faggot has no idea wtf he's talking about.
>>24688797
>This faggot has no idea wtf he's talking about.
Sorry my friend, I think you meant to quote one of the guys who actually thinks banning legendaries is a good diea
>>24688776
>I was just pretending to be retarded.jpg
>>24688787
No doubt there are plenty of lesser legendaries. As the franchise has aged everything has escalated, legendaries included. You'd have to be an idiot to argue that they haven't been getting more and more powerful.
>>24688816
>I can free text and meme so I don't have to have a good argument
Take your shit character back to neo/a/ so you stink up that place with your newness instead
>>24688820
Except that within the same game there are legendary pokemon that are as useless as the genies are broken....try harder.
The two most powerful and controversial pokemon from the most recent generation(greninja and aegislash) are absurd and stand side by side with the genies in my book....one of them was on almost as many vgc teams as thundurus, but nobody bitches about them because "lolnotlegendary"
>>24688830
I still don't see a good argument in that post but here's your reply anyway....you tried.
>>24688840
Aegislash is completely dependent on the user to be good and greninja is vulnerable to everything. Not even close to being as annoying as the genies or other pointlessly strong legendaries. Tell me why you think legendaries shouldn't all be banned without using the stupid argument of "but these ones aren't THAT strong" and you might convince me you have a valid point.
>>24688850
Why the hell should I actually put any thought into my comments when you put zero thought into yours? The fappening brought the worst kind of kids here I swear.
Realtalk: I've scummed my way to top 10 on ladder before in VGC15 with a team of shitmon. Everyone at the top 1% just uses cookie cutter teams. I've called the rank 1 guy on ladder a faggot after I predonked his faggot u-turn choiceband with a protect before, and they all say the same shit:
>if you're not playing to win what's the point? originality is overrated
That idea, above any other reason, is why competitive is pretty shit. Banning all legendaries won't matter, whatever is the best will just be ctrl+v'd by everyone.
>>24688861
You haven't played pokemon if you think your argument that those two depend on the user makes sense.... everything depends on the user. Not using a genie right is just as damning as not using those two right...except aegislash is even easier than they are to use.
>>24688867
I've been here since 2004 faggot.
>>24688885
I can see you've got nothing left to say. Don't worry, I'm sure no one will take away your easy mons and I'm sure all the people who see that you've been here since 2004 will think you're super cool.
>>24688932
Still no good argument to be found.
I think Cresselia/Heatran is worse than Landorus/Thundurus.
The ice weakness is easier to exploit, I would say.
>>24688876
>: I've scummed my way to top 10 on ladder before in VGC15
Prove it.
>>24688200
A good selection of fast Fighting, Ice and Dark/Bug types
>>24688957
heatran is a necessary evil. unlike the genies who aren't a counter to anything, but rather an easy team filler that can be put anywhere and function well.
>>24688308
this gotta be a b8
or an actual faggot from gamefaqs
>>24689041
He's right though. I look at a pokemon and I see stats, ability, typing, and moveset. That's all there is to it, nothing more and nothing less.
>>24688240
>genies
Burguers cannot call them Kami Trio?
>>24689224
>burguers
I'd install the following clause:
"Players may not use pokemon that are only available to catch once per game and cannot breed"
Bye genies, bye heatran, bye cresselia.
Sure, some shitmons like the regis and Articuno might become unusable but no-one uses them anyway.
Once we rid VGC of legends we can look at banning other OP shit like kangasfag on a case-by-case basis.
>>24688876
This, pretty much.
Competitive Pokemon is a joke.
I've been doing it since fucking Gen 3, and nothing ever changes. It doesn't matter if it's a local tourney, a simulator, or fucking wifi. It's dominated by this pathetic need to prove that you can use a cookie-cutter team better than everyone else using a cooke-cutter team.
It's boring as shit. I just can't believe it took me this long to come to terms with it.
>>24689397
>blanket ban all this shit I arbitrarily hate
>then we can apply logic and go case by case
>>24689431
Blanket ban would be the most fair. I can't get behind a mega kangaskhan though, it isn't that bad.
>>24689428
Please, show us how you use some Shitmons to win a tourney.
Other than that:
>m-muh Bros can't win me VGC
>and i don't know what injecting or soft resetting is, and can't be assed to trade myself a good legendary
>pls ban everything over 300 BST, so I can use my Bros
the thread: the experience: directors cut: electric boogaloo 2
Daily reminder
>>24689476
>Please, show us how you use some Shitmons to win a tourney.
That's EXACTLY my point. It's all cookie-cutter teams.
Which is boring as shit.
>>24689476
>m-muh Bros
Drop the strawmans and the autist speak.
>>24688982
Landorus is the counter to this retarded "OHKO everything neutral" meta. Intimidate is a must if you want to survive stuff.
Thundurus is a counter to all the shit gimmicks, rain teams, Perish Trap, Tailwind "hyper offense", etc.
>>24689508
It's exactly that, though. /vp/ just complains that people use the best Pokemon they can get for a certain role in a tournament. But if you take a good look at VGC 2013, the Top 3 aren't much different in terms of diversity compared to 2015.
>>24689501
If they are all the same exact team, I'm pretty sure you could try and do something different: Mamoswine shits on Landorus, Seismitoad and Stunfisk don't care about Landorus AND Thundurus. Everything with Base >80 Speed and Earthquake/power could just shit on Heatran, Mega Mom gets outsped and killed by Mega Lopunny. Aegislash and Amoonguss get destroyed by Volcarona. Cresselia can't do anything against Scizor, Volcarona, Weavile and probably Aegislash.
But you're not gonna see these Pokemon much if VGC continues. Why? Because there are appearently better options.
>>24689590
Volcarona is amazing and I use it in every team I have, but unfortunately it's a drop of piss in the ocean as far as competitive goes.
>>24689480
The VGC14 format was really good. I don't know how people can think there would not be more variety if legendaries were banned. The proof is in the pudding.
>>24689626
That "format" also had extremely restrictive movesets because of a lack of transfer mons or move tutors.
It was more diverse because we had less available....that doesn't mean it wasn't garbage (all dat Garchomp and Talonflame)
>>24689642
There's only 1 Talonflame in the Top 5.
>>24689684
The top five is a bad sample when the meta was a little more diverse.... about 40% of the faggots there had a banded bravest bird......
>>24688790
>legendaries with <600BST don't get played
Gee I'd better remove this Thundurus, Terrakion and Suicune from my team then :(
>>24689712
:( so sad
>>24689626
I liked VGC14 too, seeing it with tutor moves would be nice.
I would most like to see VGC16 be that battle spot special that banned the top 20 most used though, but I expect those rules are too complicated.
Plus it would mean megagross and rain everywhere
>>24688691
>No one gives a shit.
which is why competitive pokemon will remain a joke
>>24688487
except that doesn't mean shit when everyone injects anyway
>>24689728
>I liked VGC14 too, seeing it with tutor moves
But the best part of 2014 is that it didn't have tutors. No Low Kick, no Knock Off, no Tailwind, no Hyper Voice. It was fun.
>>24688621
This is a stupid argument
So long as there's any kind of variation in a game, there's always going to be a "best" option. That's not the point. The point is not to destroy any chance at having a best option, but to make it so the best option isn't the only option.
If you take out landorous let's say, and everyone starts using Krookodile instead to replace it, that alone is a huge impact. Krookdile's stats aren't crazy high, he can't kill all the things that landorous could, and there's things that can OHKO him that couldn't do the same to landorous. Not to mention, since landorous isn't around lording over the meta you'd have a few options depending on your team. Maybe you want Gliscor or mamoswine over krookodile. Suddenly variation happens. The goal isn't to remove the best option, it's to make the gap between the best and second best less massive than it currently is.
Banning legendaries won't fix everything automatically. There's a handful of legends that are shit, and a handful of powerful megas that make legends look like puppies. But it would be a step in the right direction. If gamefreak finally decides to throw a bare minimum of balance at some of these busted pokemon then maybe we'd finally have a good meta.
>>24689981
Well spoken sir.
>>24689981
agreed *tips fedora*
>>24690041
Kill yourself
>>24690180
no u
>>24689981
>So long as there's any kind of variation in a game, there's always going to be a "best" option
Which is why banning legendaries is pointless.
>The point is not to destroy any chance at having a best option, but to make it so the best option isn't the only option
There are already multiple options. You just don't like them. Removing legendaries doesn't make it much better. And removing legendaries doesn't prevent there from being a ton of Pokemon signficantly better than others. Kangaskhan is a better than a shit ton of Pokemon. Pseudos are better than a shit ton of Pokemon. Aegislash is better than a shit ton of Pokemon. Pointing fingers at legendaries is a retarded braindead solution.
>But it would be a step in the right direction
No it wouldn't. It's just a mindless blanket ban based on the playground mindset of "HURR LEGENDARIES OP PLS DON'T USE THEM"
>>24690014
nice samefag
My kingdom for 1 legend per team
so this is what vgcfags have degraded into? children begging for every legendary to be mindlessly banned when smogon is right there making actual logical bans for a more enjoyable game? LOL
>>24688320
>>:[
Woah there buddy, no need to get so angry
>>24690384
Nobody cares about how balanced it is if it's boring. People want variety and banning legends would bring that.
>>24690573
>banning legends would bring that
No it wouldn't. Banning overcentralizing Pokemon would bring that. Which smogon does.
>>24690573
>mfw after this years finals VGCKeks started backpedaling that the lack of variety is actually a good thing
>>24690324
>There are already multiple options. You just don't like them. Removing legendaries doesn't make it much better. And removing legendaries doesn't prevent there from being a ton of Pokemon signficantly better than others. Kangaskhan is a better than a shit ton of Pokemon. Pseudos are better than a shit ton of Pokemon. Aegislash is better than a shit ton of Pokemon. Pointing fingers at legendaries is a retarded braindead solution.
So what you suggest? People are tired of CHALK as the default.
What you call "braindead" is actually "pragmatic". Unless you want to explain to kids why they can't use their bro Zapdos but Articuno is ok when both are equal.
>>24689480
I love how out of all super bland teams in VGC15, the absolute most generic one (Lando/Thundurs/Cress/Tran/Kanga/Amoonguss) was the one that ended up winning.
>>24690625
>4 legendaries, mega mom, spore
>mfw
>>24689480
can we agree that sejun park is a fuckin gift?
also anyone know where I can find the set for that magby? and what set is usually used for jellicent in doubles?
>>24691180
I think it was follow me but don't quote me on that.
>>24691180
http://imgur.com/a/vDjV8#1
The full team.
>>24689567
what kind of team would you not consider a "shit gimmick"?
>>24691180
Water Spout/scald
Recover
Trick Room
Willowisp
You can check pokemon.com for most used moves in doubles on every pokemon, as well as items and natures.
>>24691350
One that consistently wins, or at least tries to.
If it instantly loses when a turn goes wrong, it's a gimmick.
If it instantly loses at team preview, it's a gimmick.
>>24691392
i agree perish trap is gimmicky, but rain and tailwind are just forms of speed control
>>24691420
When I say "gimmick" I'm talking about crap like Geomancy Pass Smeargle and DisableTrap. The rest are just the team archetypes that Thundurus deals with.
>>24690573
>>24690592
>people
Casuals aren't people that have the right to complain about this because they don't even play VGC, all they do is watch others.
>>24690324
>retarded braindead
No. It actually makes sense and is easy for people to understand rather than shoving a gorillion tier lists in their face. If you can't understand that, stop breathing.
>>24691879
>No. It actually makes sense
Except it doesn't. It's literally just banning a huge group of Pokemon for no good reason. Especially when pseudos are still allowed.
>easy for people to understand
Really? Because I sure as fuck don't understand this retarded suggestion
> than shoving a gorillion tier lists in their face
"these list(s) of pokemon is overpowered, so you can't use them in x format"
how the fuck is this hard to understand? Fucking YGO has ban lists more complicated and it's also kids shit.
>>24691920
You have autism. Good night.
>>24691931
you don't even know the meaning of autism you dumb motherfucker
>>24688560
You've got to be kidding, right? Liepard and Klefki ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT replacements/substitutes/stand-ins for Thundurus. Thundurus has much better typing, access to Thunder Wave (I realize Klefki does as well) and amazing offensive stats. Liepard is only still a player because of Fake Out and Encore, Klefki is garbage. It's not nearly as easy as you think.
