Why is evasion looked down upon? Not just in smogon, but in all communities.
>>24665089
Didn't you make this same thread before with the same image? Did the 300+ replies not give you an answer?
>>24665122
No? There have been a lot of threads on VP tho so I'm sure there will be repeats.
>>24665189
yeah you did and you know it
this has already been over, evasion a shit and you a shit
>>24665194
See? Stupid replies like this are why I even have to ask. All anti evasion arguments are about as well thought out as "fuck you it's bad" which proves you don't know what you're talking about. I thought I'd try you lot because the smogon tards immediately dismiss evasion with no logic, but I forgot /vp/ is just as retarded.
>>24665122
https://fgts.jp/vp/thread/24560343/
>>24665244
I've heard it's because there's not enough actual counterplay for it, although I don't believe Smogon has actually tested it on Showdown recently, as there are quite a few moves out there to counter it. Along with perfect-accuracy moves, there's also things which lower Evasion, moves which stop setting up in the first place, and moves which reset stats.
Why none of these WOULD be viable (Not asking why they aren't viable), I don't know; an obvious response I see from people who don't mind evasion or think it should be unbanned is that no-one who's against it actually has any proof that it being unbanned would mean it's broken.
Does anyone have any experiements, tests, or proof to corroborate with the idea that evasion is broken even if you apply things which can stop evasion? And before anyone says "Oh but I shouldn't have to bring specific things to counter it and be fucked over.", Taunt and Haze work against more than just Evasion. Let's also not forget that sweeper teams exist, as do hazard setup teams. You also need things to deal with stall.
If Evasion were a legitimate "strategy" (In much the same way that paraflinch is now, along with spamming confusion or what-have-you), it may have more prevalence and would therefore not be as crippling as it could be where only one out of every twenty teams runs it.
Because all of evasion's intended "counters" in reality don't work from a practical standpoint. Why? Because they all counter the idea of evasion itself, but don't take into account that more than 99% of all pokemon in the game and every pokemon that's relevant learns double team. You can cite no guard as a counter, but Machamp doesn't beat literally every pokemon in the game. You can cite perfect accuracy moves, but those are entirely type match up dependent AND weak as hell with few good users.
But even more importantly than that, evasion "counters" are 100% dead weight against all non-evasion teams. Evasion makes the team cripplingly match up based evasion teams beat normal teams, normal teams beat anti-evasion teams, and anti-evasion teams still actually lose a lot to evasion teams but at least stand a chance unlike normal teams.
It's just an overall completely garbage mechanic that ruins the game.
>>24665357
Can you site the possibility of you not winning every battle to counter your statement? Or is that anti competitive rhetoric?
>>24665089
Evasion spam turns the RNG into a megatroll and basically turns the match into LOL WILL YOU HIT IT OR NOT?
After 2 double teams the pokemon you used is basically impossible to hit, though there are many counters against evasion spam, smogonfags are too lazy or want a meta thats too predictable or strict to even enforce it. Though the moves that nerf evasion spam tend to be shitty on their own, and you could always just Taunt them or use a phazer but thats too much planning for smogonfags.
Here a really cheap combo using evasion spam
DT twice
Use agility once
Toxic
Keep spamming DT
Ingrain to prevent any faggot from phasing you.
Now watch as every single non steelmon on your opponent's team dies while they cant fucking hit you at all.
>>24665089
>this thread again
Sage
>>24665406
I know there are counters for this strategy before you smogonfags start calling it a bad strategy.
>>24665089
It's overpowered because if you allow evasion, it becomes overcentralizing. 99.8% of the Pokedex can learn Double Team through TM, so literally anything and everything can and WILL have it and you HAVE to be prepared for it - building your entire team to counter a single concept does not make a healthy meta. Sure, you can prepare your whole team to take on Double Team spamming opponents but the minute you come across people that aren't using it, you're fucked. And if their team is mixed up, you're fucked no matter what. It's not something you can prepare for because of how ridiculously widespread Double Team is. It provides far, far too much benefit for something that is so easily accessible.
Fixing the concept of Evasion is easy - Remove the Double Team TM and Evasion becomes far, far less OP. Now only a select few Pokemon can pack Evasion boosting (such as those with Minimize or those that learn Double Team naturally), and, outside of the gimmicky Baton Pass teams, those few Pokemon can very easily be countered by a standard setup that doesn't require an entire team's focus. Of course, GameFreak would then have to do something about the countless Pokemon that could learn Double Team beforehand which is just too much for their brilliant minds.
>>24665449
>building your entire team to counter a single concept does not make a healthy meta
Stealth Rock says hi
>>24665458
Stealth Rock is also bullshit, but that's not what this thread is about.
Not OP, but can I just ask...if its so bad that smogon bans it, why is it not prominent in VGC, who doesn't ban it?
Is evasion that much worse in doubles?
>>24665580
Most stat-boosting moves are worthless in doubles because you have to contend with two Pokemon instead of one, making it that much harder to set up. Your partner would have to be built up specifically to protect the evasion booster.
Also, VGC doesn't allow all six Pokemon to contend, just four. So if you have an evasion booster and someone to protect them then half your team has almost no killing power, all the while two other Pokemon (who could both potentially phase you) wail on you.
>>24665605
But I thought using evasion twice means you instantly win the game? Are you saying the posters here are full of shit?
OP literally posted this thread with the exact same image and almost identical text a few weeks ago
Link is in >>24665256
OP is a faggot, as usual
>>24665745
Flashpowder and Double team trolls.
>>24665766
Flashpowder? Like flash, with bright powder?
>>24665756
Oh yeah because /vp/ prides itself on original content. Wouldn't want this place to turn into the same 4 threads.
>>24665089
It's not a fun mechanic
it just adds more dice rolling to a game already chock full of that
>>24665449
Double team is terrible on most Pokemon though.
>>24665449
Explain why double team wasn't on any vgc finalists mons in recent memory
>>24666875
Because you can timer stall it.
THE ONLY SAFE WAY TO BEAT IT IS BY TIMER STALLING
But go ahead and call it balanced like you faggots always do.
>>24666875
It was explained here >>24665605
And there's what this anon said of course >>24666915
>>24666915
Timer stalls against clear win conditions are seen as unsportsmanlike and usually result in the staller being disqualified. Most players only begin the stall when their loss is locked in, until then they just play the odds so they can "lol I beat ur hax cuz I'm gud.". Funny how removed you people are from the actual scene.
>>24666915
Depends on the judgment of the tournament staff.
>>24665089
because you dress like a girl
Ass broken in singles because LITERALLY EVERYFUCKING THING gets double team. It isn't banned in ubers by the way, where there is no time for shit like boosting if you aren't ekiller arceus.
You can say nevermiss moves, I can say they are piss weak and you'll lose anyway because they are piss weak.
You can say haze, I can point out the grand fuckall that gets that and the fact it's a wasted moveslot otherwise.
You can say no guard, I can say machamp doesn't beat everything.
You can say dragon rush, stomp, steamroller, flying press, etc. I can say that doesn't work for double team, just minimize.
You could even say keen eye, I could point out the best mon with it is fucking chatot.
It adds more rng into an already rng saturated game. It's not fun to play against. It's difficult to prepare for, your best option is to just 'get lucky' rather than sacrifice moveslots or pokemon slots for strategies that wont work 100% of the time anyway.
It doesn't really work in doubles as any turn you aren't protecting or attacking is a wasted turn. That doesn't mean it can't work, it's just not nearly as fucking cancerous. Dealing with TWO pokemon at once just fucks boosting right up.
Fucking forget it in triples.
