Scheming Edition
Previous Pantokrator: >>148044624
Dominions is a fantasy turn-based war game created by two dudes. One of them is a teacher.
The game combines a simple presentation with an extremely wide array of strategic options, including over 2800 units, 800 spells and 300 magic items. Turns are resolved simultaneously, with players planning battles rather than directly controlling them.
It has simplistic graphics but is easily moddable and extremely deep.
Basically, it's an autist’s wet dream of a war game.
>Steamgroup
Join the steamgroup for multiplayer
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/vanheimageofvidya
>Group chatroom
steam://friends/joinchat/103582791434709795
>Our work-in-progress wiki
http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Dominions_4_Wiki
>Our pastebin
http://pastebin.com/dHdZ1cch
>Dom4 Manual
http://jaffa.illwinter.com/dom4/manual_dom4.pdf
>Dom4 Inspector
This is a community resource that has every unit, spell, and item in the game in an accessible database.
http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/
>Play by email guide:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=202096551
>Debug Mod:
For testing battle formations and spells
http://dom4archive.kermodebear.org/www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/debug-mod.html
>Where do I get it?
It is available on Gamersgate (-75%) and Steam. Desura is kill.
>THE BASICS
>Read the manual
>Read the wiki
>Read the pastebin
>Watch some LPs by Maerlande or NuclearMonkee
>Start playing multiplayer games
Submit completed games here:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1jHX_ZoJi6zIvDq6ANdp-W1Y89W5_fmShuDyHmAj5qC4/viewform
Results Here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dlrvyEqLFYIaXRc49TheMmfdoP8jEh1m5rZJHJAzDWQ/edit?usp=sharing
Work on the Wiki!
First for yet another game filled with multiple stalers, most of whom were actually in a good position before they just gave up/got removed by the illuminati
Peace is over.
>>148438584
If you get in a good position that's all the more reasons for illuminati to want you.
Remember to always lose your games at the end unless you want to be next.
We have always been at war with Ermor.
>>148438721
I've won games and they haven't come for me yet.
Perhaps I should be worried.
The only reason UW nations aren't the most cancerous nations in the game, is because they're so boring to play that nobody plays them and subsequently, nobody has to fight them.
>>148438763
Tell me more about that anon
>>148439196
Imagine a nation that could turn land provinces into water provinces. Either a spell or from having very high dominion in that province.
>>148439435
Sounds like a cancer nation depending on whether the conversion is permanent or not
>>148439435
What happens to the population in that province? Do they all become merpeople or just die?
>>148439435
>>148439558
YES
I would totally buy. Works like Ermor but turning stuff into uw instead of ded.
>>148438584
Aw shit, if I had noticed Aphodel had stalled I would have invaded him.
>>148439558
>>148440860
That's far, far more cancerous than Ermor though.
Huh, never seen that title before
http://test.blitzserver.net/matches/view/471
Due to a handful of fuckups on my end causing emails to not be sent out resulting in a handful of stales, one AI, and one player being set AI who didn't even want to be AI. I'm restarting fourth test, if you either want to join and try a long a term direct connect game, or have already joined and no longer want to deal with the hassle, now is the time to say something.
>>148446172
>mememap
JEWS. DO YOUR TURN.
we all know you are in the oven anyway.
>>148448552
Apologies, I'm assuming you're referring to me. I was caught up in a blitz earlier today, just sent the turn in now.
>>148448771
NOT YOU. I am talking about the other jews!
is there any way to mod a spell to do damage only if there is more than one unit/based on the number of enemy units?
>>148448425
It looks great. I enjoyed all seven turns I got to play on it. Someone else complained about it a while ago but when I pressed him for details he wouldn't tell me anything. What's the issue with it?
>>148449169
>cavecluster
>meme connections everywhere
>choking starting positions
>not intuitive connections and province placement
> clusters of hyperlinks to the other sides of the map everywhere, often making it hard to choose where to place a fort.
>>148446172
Apologies and appreciation to our Lord and Servior. I just noticed your post in thread yesterday a few hours after you set me AI. Sorry I got mad at you, I thought the game was on hold due to server issues, and I did not expect my spam filter to kick in on turn 7. I'll make a filter this time.
I had merrows in my cap circ too.
>>148449349
Also you can start in the caves in one of the one-province not-cave giving you a cap circle of shit.
>>148450913
Which province is it?
>Join Blitz match
>Players go AI one by one
>Last human vs human interaction (pic related) ended with Man winning, but majority his of forces dying to route. So Man also turns AI.
>Try to finish game
>Suddenly the AI Agartha and AI Ryleh start tearing up my provinces, so I also quit too
>Nobody wins
5 HOURS WELL SPENT
http://test.blitzserver.net/matches/view/539
>>148451289
51, but also 42, 36 and 9.
>>148452579
That honestly looks like it should've been Marverni's. What killed all the piggies?
>elves are literally child killers
Remove elves REMOVE ELVES.
>>148453956
are those ancient ones evo bait?
>>148454217
Nah, they're for the +1 morale.
So, I've gotten requests to improve the following nations:
EA Ctis, TNN, Yomi, Ur, MA Oceania, MA Eriu.
I'll note that TNN, Ctis, Yomi, and Eriu (especially Yomi) are performing above the mininum win threshold I used to evaluate nations for changes, but am still interested in hearing suggestions.
>>148456425
TNN needs Ri to have a point, but is pretty well off otherwise. No clue if you already did something about that.
Eriu doesn't need to be improved so much as it needs something to set itself apart from TNN.
Yomi needs some way to not utterly implode when faced with anti-demon weapons in order. Either some summon or recuitable that isn't trash and either isn't a demon or doesn't have chaos power, or some way to push turmoil effectively. Right now, Yomi is fine up until they get horribly hard-countered, so they wreck newbies and fold to veterans.
>>148453956
you know what they say
>>148456425
TNN is extremely strong, no idea who suggested a buff...
C'tis has good troops and look fine to me. Perhaps making their sacreds useful would work.
Oceania needs land shapes with extra attacks.
Ur I have no idea, gore attack? Better troop stats?
Eriu needs a decent recruit anywhere mage.
>>148456425
The thing about TNN is the same problem Man and Eriu have which is just that A/N is unimpressive.
They have tools. They can do air elementals and T strikes midgame and they have assassins and thugs and they're elves, so they can mass-raid (albeit at a high cost, because, again, elves). They have better research than Vanheim already, so it's not like it's just Vanheim-but-worse like Helheim was. It's unsurprising that they manage to find wins.
>>148456425
Yomi has big glaring weaknesses, but I wouldn't say they're weak per sé. I may be a bit biased because one of those Yomi wins is mine, but I don't think they need a big boost. They're just awkward and have a big disadvantage against certain opponents. If I were to change anything it would be to remove Chaos Recruitment from their units and give them a corresponding reduction in cost instead, but I guess that might not be thematic. Also, making their Bandit and Bakemono troops less awful would give them an alternative to spamming overpriced demon troops and would help Shinuyama as well (and they need the buff a lot more than Yomi does, IMO)
I haven't played the others enough to comment on them.
>>148456425
>EA Yomi and TNN
Fuck off, Malakal and Carlix. It's not nations' fault that your teams are BTFO.
>>148457563
>Fuck off, Malakal and Carlix. It's not nations' fault that your teams are BTFO.
They're not the ones asking. Don't be a dick.
>>148457691
>Not knowing the latest memes
You're getting old, sum1.
>>148457563
Malakal has not been one of the people pushing for big buffs for yomi. The most he suggested was giving them a road in their starting fort.
TNN was only suggested after I pointed out they've been comparable to eriu and ea Ctis in performance. I don't remember who suggested them, but I'm 99% sure it wasn't Carlix.
Unless you were just shot posting, in which case, sorry.
>>148458153
He was shitposting.
Agartha can we have a talk in the steam chat?
>>148458153
As for Yomi:
1. Their mages seem fine, a bit D focused but whatever.
2. The troops need to be able to do something in order, I stopped recruiting them as soon as I could.
3. The 'high' end oni troops are useless and horribly overpriced. How about giving them armor? I mean oni generals are heavily armored, so are dai onis, why cant Yomi have heavily armored heavy onis? That would give them a niche plus maybe give a reason to not go sloth3 every time.
>>148452579
why didn't you ask for someone for subbing instead of having them AI? i was ready to play and in chat.
What about making Yomi champion Unrest? Giving events for Yomi's lands to make Unrest increase income, and make their troops naturally increase it?
The downside is resources, which gives prod a thing, and the inability to recruit at 100 Unrest, which is a pretty big problem and either needs to be just unilaterally removed (ehich can be done) or disabled for just Yomi (which I don't know if it can or not).
>>148460383
Yomi doesn't need prod to begin with.
>>148455980
this wouldn't have been a problem if you wished for telkhines instead.
Ok, EA C'tis - Early game they're weak to a bless rush, but they can expand fine with national units.
Midgame they do the skelly spam and they do it well
Late game they try to get into tarts.
So here's what I see as their weaknesses -
Their diversity is limited in that they don't have E or A, which are borderline mandatory for battlefield buffs.
Skellyspam has answers in every nation, and you know that it's coming when you see C'tis because it's by far the best battlemagic that C'tis can deploy.
Unlike MA C'tis, it's a little bit more difficult to get quagmire and foul vapors up (still something you use, of course, but you need to work out boosters or a communion whereas MA C'tis just kinda has it).
While tarts are great, you need your pretender or empowerment to actually get it.
Their earlygame is somewhat vulnerable.
They want too much out of their pretender - an expander can help get them through their weak early game, and since they rely on building just lots of infantry units to expand, the early boost snowballs to make their expansion feel MUCH better thanks to the additional resources you get in the first few turns.
They might also want some diversity from their pretender since, while EA has more neat indies than other eras, C'tis's absences are very noticeable.
And, as mentioned earlier, if you do make it to the late game as C'tis and don't have the help of your pretender for it, Tart production is very, very expensive and you won't be able to leverage astral as well to help you out as you would if your pretender can make you rings.
Anyways, here are my suggestions -
Give them an A summon before faerie queens. The couatl might be a good place to put this, since they have a different couatl spell from Mictlan already and MA Mictlan's couatl dudes do have A. Alternatively, give them a new, lower-level couatl summon with A.
Give them a sacred D summon. Maybe a mass Tomb Wyrm spell with D/N? Something to give them an option other than skelly sp
>>148460525
It's always nice with some bandit archers with flaming arrows and they need resources.
>>148460930
The quoted post was sum1, though. You doctored the name into the wrong spot.Also the dude you were calling Malakal yesterday wasn't Malakal.
>>148457792
>>148457691
H-how am I a meme?
>>148461119
>Relax, you're doing fine!
>>148461119You're a meme for me.
>>148456425
I'm really happy on what you did with EA R'lyeh, they feel great now.
But about going on land with your polypal spawns...
Is there a way? A reverse Theti's blessing?
also i dont see a reason why Androleths shouldn't be sacred.
>>148460945
I like this couatl idea, though I don't know if I like it for later ages of Ctis. Mass flight tomb chariots seem unpleasant. I'm not fond of the sacred summon idea.
One thing I'm considering is giving them a national discount on certain generic death rituals.
>>148461425
>>148461253
Why do people keep forgetting to take their names off when memeposting?
Anyways, Oceania -
Oceania is STRAIGHT garbage. Their magic access is bad, their troops are bad, their mages are either insanely expensive or literally A1W1 no randoms on land, and their sacreds have TWO attacks per square with no additional ways of killing things. Oceania needs sweeping changes to be a decent nation. Personally, I liked how Ohlmann gave them some blood access, since they need to actually hold land provinces to use it. I don't remember what all else he did to them in UW expanded
>>148461553
>also i dont see a reason why Androleths shouldn't be sacred.
They're freaky genetic experiment slaves, not sacred warriors.
>>148461823
>I like this couatl idea, though I don't know if I like it for later ages of Ctis. Mass flight tomb chariots seem unpleasant. I'm not fond of the sacred summon idea.
Well, EA C'tis seems to have more of a nature link than LA. Maybe give them more in that line then. Some sort of new sky serpent, maybe.
Also, this isn't really something that will be a serious buff for C'tis, but the lore on their mages is all about them going into the underworld and coming back. Maybe give C'tis a national cheaper twice-born ritual that makes lizard wights.
>>148462307
But Androdai are freaky enough to be sacred?
?????
>>148462097
I don't think Malakal even plays dota.
>>148462368
Androdai are vessels for Aboleths to deposit their minds into. They preach to the humans about serving the fishmasters. They're both priests and the most sacred that a humanoid can be.
>>148462597
Also, apparently the difference between gibodai (sacreds) and giboleths (nonsacred) is that gibodai are fed sacred nutrients by the mothers. This is also what androdai get. Since androleths don't drink the sacred juice that androdai do, they don't get to be sacred.
>>148462597
>>148462781
Okay, I suppose this makes sense.
But they are inferior Olms as they are, and they only live 5 years.
Also, weird lore thing. I dislike how Abodai understand the will of the mothers, because the idea of having a sentient species incapable of communicating with itself was part of their 'weird alien' cool.
>>148461553
Polyps spawns should be semiamphibious. If they aren't, I fucked up.
>>148462307
Ohlmann gave blood to ea Oceania . I don't think he did this for ma.
>>148463038
Oh, thought we were talking about EA. MA is basically the same nation with the same problems, but at least they have some usable armored units.
>>148463038
They aren't in Kingofbullies, but that game started a lot of time ago.
I'm dying to get into a new game as EA rlyeh again.
>>148462986
I guess? They're also recruitable from all coasts whereas olms require caves, but not a fort. Agartha and R'lyeh are very different nations, even if they both have mindblasters. I like the fact that androleths require resources to make sloth less of a no-brainer dump, but given the limits to their recruitment and their other limitations (MM1, short lifespan) I'd be down with giving them a reduced gold cost.
>>148463354
Guess I was wrong. I'm still not Malakal, though.
Army of Fog helps against Earthquake, right? That's pretty out of reach for me at the moment but it's probably the most accessible counter I have. Other than just walking into the Earthquake trap, which is what I'm thinking about doing right now. What can you really do against Earthquake, beyond Army of X and Mass Flight? Assuming you have a lot of very low HP/prot units.
>>148464978
Er, Fog Warriors*. I always get that wrong.
>>148464978
yes, it should protect against the first instance of damage.
i think it is an attack roll of 13, so having more than 13 defense helps. it should be physical so ethereal works too.
protection should still decrease the damage by a slight bit so army of gold/lead are good too.And of course stuff like will o fates.
>>148465304
EQ is 8 AP damage, so Army of Foo practically negates it. Even Mass Prot is enough to make it tickle rather than fatal.
>>148465304
>yes, it should protect against the first instance of damage.
Also, EQ isn't 'magic' damage for the purposes of mistform, so unless it gets a very lucky DRN roll, EQ won't even pop the fog warriors.
Abysia of Peace&Harmyoni mentioned wanting bane venom charm for his contracts/fire gems.
i will be able to craft them in one turn and i am interested...shall we setup a deal?
TheNewCool Abysia, what the hell are you even doing?
Sincerely, squids.
>>148470508
Fucking Up, probably. Haven't really had a chance to look into the newest turn all that much, to what are you referring?
>>148468964
Sadly, there's a 50/50 chance I'll be entirely subsumed by Caelum next turn.
The good news is apparently Malakal is in the game, and is in a strong position to win on a better fucking nation than nonsummoded Aby (I really did underestimate just how much all the changes made a difference). So everyone say thank you Caelum for that one.
And no, before you ask, you don't get to know who he is playing as.
>>148472269
>Better position
I see meaty cocks in all his orifices.
>>148472269
uh interesting.
my guess is they might be either fomoria ( who is devouring agartha it seems)...or R'lyeh? i don't know malakal enough to understand if he loves sick UW stuff.
>>148456425
Ur needs better troops. Enkidu are awful holy shit.
>>148473601
Right. What's the point of buff paths without attack density? They're basically goat dudes so give them a headbutt and kick.
>>148474093
giving them additional intrinsic attacks is a solution. do you see any other way that doesn't include additionala ttacks, with spells or troop changes, that we could make buffing size 3 units a good idea?
>>148470728
So this is what happened from some turns ago:
You have blood vortex casted and pyre.
You cast looming hell and pyre gets deleted (unlucky of yours)
You cast Blood vortex again (probably overcasting it more)
Then you cast Astral Corruption and your overcasted blood vortex gets deleted
Then the turn after that Looming hell and Astral Corruption both disappear and you cast Wrath of god
Just what happened there?
Did you try to forge robe of the magi or some other crosspath blood item with your AC and Looming hell caster and he got killed by horrors?
But even if it was that, why would you cast Wrath of god while in AC? Unless you have a AS crosspath immortal, which i don't think you have.
Why are people so mad at namefags?
>>148474881
fag.
>>148474608
It's not that hard to get non immortal global through AC.
Immortals are needed for long term casting.
>>148474608
Oh yeah, Fucking Up.
Nah see the plan was I intended to use cheap blood overcasts to take down your globals and give me a chance to get up some of mine uncontested. What ended up happening was me wasting a bunch of slaves and turns and only hitting my own globals. Also probably giving you plenty of gems through Arcane Nexus.
Need people for a testing blitz, someone gets to be Yomi with new added features.
>>148477000
I assume you're looking for experienced Yomiers?
>>148475543
Blood slaves dont work for nexus, neither pearls do.
>>148478084
We went with breaking the "don't play the nation you modded" rule of fair play. But yes that would have been great.
>>148478349
Oh huh, I knew blood slaves didn't go through, but I thought pearls did. Good to know, the last thing I need is for R'lyeh to have even more of an insane gem lead over me.
>>148478568
Honestly, are you still having fun? because if we are keeping the game alive it would be great that at least one of the three players left enjoys it.
>>148478797
Hah, I've actually been getting back into it recently now that I'm having to seriously fend off the attacks from you two without my giant demon stack. Plus I actually do have a victory plan in sight and just need to make sure I don't lose before it happens.
Plus, as much as I hate so much of how I've played this game, it has been rather enlightening. I'd like to close it out just for the experience of it, otherwise I would've quit a while ago.
>>148479285
That's what I mean. Do you think that domkilling the world for 90 turns is fun?
It's tedious and annoying for all of us. Even you.
>>148479376
I mean, yeah kinda. These last several turns have been more active and less pointless than almost any other over the course of this game for me. It's stupid and has taken too long, I'll definitely agree but at this exact moment I don't hate it. Probably only because in my immediate recent memory I've had a few small victories but no stunningly massive losses. That really determines a lot of the enjoyment for me, which is a bit of a shame.
Don't die. Have some dominions RNG.
Left side: two fully geared tarts and a golem.
>>148483723
>S2
Don't even continue.
>>148483723
Right side: naked tired vampire lord and a few freshly summoned skeletons.
>>148483873
It's better.
Vampire lord casts disintegrate.
Vampire lord casts disintegrate.
Both on a first shot.
>>148484107
fuuuuuuck
anyone want to give us a general update/map of that Natgen?
>>148484107
What was the MR of those golems?
Even assuming the base of 18, that scenario literally has a 2%~ chance of occurring.
>>148485656
>base of 18
>screenshot has 21
The other one is 19.
The first test seems fairly successfull, asside from a minor error that is now fixed and we shan't dwell upon.
Anyway, here is Yomi, unrest edition:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p6myi11ag4g4fx1/Yomi.dm?dl=0
>>148485812
Well under 1% then.
Dominions DRN is fucky.
>>148460945
If you wanna try playing c'tis you can do no worse by changing to sauromatia instead.
literally an obsolete nation.
>>148488562
Cirno
Go
>>148488562
23:03 - Cirno: they are better than sauro at least
23:03 - Malakal: > i dont think kailasa is bad
>>148488731
>shitposting using shitposts.
literally malakal level.
>>148489018
I've never meta thread that didn't love it
>>148488562
>>148488646
>>148488731
>>148489018
>>148489198
All of those are me.
>>148489324
Stop pretending to be me.
I'm not sure how this happened.
But nonetheless, despite my unrepentant awfulness at this game, I have somehow been deemed the player of the week on /domg/.
So, uh, I guess I'll try to be less shit.
>>148489324
>>148491625
>>148492341
...
I don't get this meme at all but please stop already.
>>148494141
Congratulations!
>>148495217
Apologies for not thanking you sooner, 4chan thought sincere appreciation was spam.
Can't imagine why.
>>148460945
I don't like the idea of an air summon for Ctis, it's very unthematic unless you tie it into their exchange with EA Ermor somehow. You could give them a death mage summon that can roll air, which at least gives them access to the really good A/D crosspaths and Carrion Feast.
I 100% like the idea of a sacred death summon. Give them a reason to take a bless because although I don't think every nation should be built around a bless, I think every nation should have a reason to take one. Ctis' only reason is N9 on shamans for meme strats. The weirdest part is EA Ctis already has W/N and N sacred summons (although they're pretty crap), and those are side paths. So why don't they have a death summon? It also fixes the huge issue that Ctis gets really poor synergy out of all of death's most important spells, Falchioneers are incredibly good units, but if you're using darkness, which you will be as ctis because they make skeletons on par with national units, you can't use your national troops because there's no way to give them darkvision.
I really dislike the diversity on EA Ctis. It's pretty painful until you get up conj for Couatls and can actually get deep into nature. But I wouldn't mind it if they could go heavy on death magic and get some synergy out of it through national spells and summons. As is I've found EA Machaka does pretty much everything with death that EA C'tis can do. While also having access to earth, deep enough nature to actually be usable, and fire which is worth it for fElementals alone.
I also think the lack of D/N crosspaths hurts them a lot. S1D3N1 is useful, W1N1D3 can at least boost to foul vapors, D4N1 needs no speaking of, but N2D3? You can cast N2 spells like sleep cloud but you're always better off just casting horde of skeletons than anything N2 will give you access to. I guess you can forge items (like thistle maces for your W1N1D3s) but for a quarter of your skelespammers to have that path? No thank you.
>>148500257
It's their only N2 access, which is, in fact, useful. You forge with it.
>>148500663
Yes, I noted that at the end. N2D3's battle utility is the least of Ctis' issues. But I'm saying that you could expand the nation in that area (N/D crosspaths) to cover some of what they're missing without having to introduce new paths.
>>148500257
>I don't like the idea of an air summon for Ctis, it's very unthematic unless you tie it into their exchange with EA Ermor somehow.
I meant a summon-with-air not a summon that requires air magic. The reason I tied it to couatls is that MA Mictlan's recruitable couatl has A.
>>148501317
>summon-with-air
I know, I'm not thinking you want a national summon they can't even remotely access.
But if a death+nature nation is too weak and has glaring issues that aren't intended weaknesses, then I don't think the issue is to just give them a more useful path. I think the issue is to give them things to work with that are thematic.
Actually, totally unrelated, but I think that C'tis actually DOES need more stuff tied to its exchanges with EA Ermor. Ermor has actual lizard units, and in spite of the fact that Ermor's impending misuses of death magic is explicitly mentioned in C'tis's lore, it doesn't feature in its units or mage lineup.
>>148501932
You could give ctis Flamens under the dual guise of ermor spreading its religion to ctis after conquering it, and the flamens trying to avoid the power of the New Faith. It gives C'tis a bunch of extra useful paths and although probably not super useful on their own (aside from F2 which is gr8), you could then use spectral mages to get matrices and boom you've cracked battle magic diversity wide open.
RIP Llamaserver
Did Flatus kill it?
>>148502517
I think that might be -too- much
>>148505151
Talking in vanheim it'd probably be useless. But the idea was floated of S1D1+.5AF 'failed augur elders' that represent the expedition described in EA Ermor's augur elder unit biography.
I haven't played Dominions 4 in a while (last update for me was... Celestial Carp addition?) so could someone fill me in on some things
What changed in the patches to Pretender Design after that which made Earth Serpent into a really popular pick? Or is it just a meta thing?
How many new nations did they add since then? I don't recognize Xilbaba so I guess that's a new one.
>>148506110
>What changed in the patches to Pretender Design after that which made Earth Serpent into a really popular pick?
Earth Serpent is a lot cheaper than old awake expanders (cheap base cost, doesn't need dom9), and a lot better too. It wasn't around before, which is why it's only a recent pick.
>>148506707
>It wasn't around before, which is why it's only a recent pick.
Oh, that makes sense - I figured there were some global changes or something but I guess they just dropped the ball on balancing this one.
>>148506110
Xibalba is a new nation, yeah. In the EA, they have flying stealthy units with lances which cost 7 gold 1 res, near full magic diversity (missing only W), all of Mictlan's summons (except Puchis), and recruitable Onaqui.
In the LA they lose some of their magic diversity, but become more or less amphibious and can contest the waves. In both cases, they are the strongest nation of their age (having a 6-7% higher winrate than any other nation - Lanka in the EA, and Ragha in the LA).
In MA they are frogs. Or toads. Or something. In MA they are shit.
>>148505562
That sounds TOO good unless it was StR or otherwise gimped in that it'd edge out lizard shamans almost completely. S1D1 is fantastic
>>148508040
EA Xibalba has water access via the Chaacs and one of the Balams. What they don't is astral.
>>148508371
Oh, it'd be cap only.
>>148508534
Sadly, they don't really get chaacs unless their pretender is a chaacolate factory. They're also not really worth getting, I don't think, given their cost and the fact that Xibalbats don't even like storm.
>>148508767
What about the Balams? Haven't played EA Xib but N9B9 is a good Ozelotl bless so it's not hard to get a caster for that. And flying H3's seem good at least.
>>148509389
yeah, they're cool. H3 flying demon leadership is extremely good.
>>148506110
I can't remember the order they came out in, but Therodos, Ragha and Ys are also new-ish.
Therodos is an UW popkill nation which got nerfed into the ground shortly after release.
Ragha is a nation which can recruit different mages depending on temperature scales. It's an interesting mechanic, but basically everyone goes heat because the cap-only sacreds you can recruit with heat scales are amazing.
Ys is similar to Maverni, but they start underwater. They get cap-only elves too, along with the most expensive cavalry in the game.
>>148507894
I actually think it's a well balanced change.
Before, awake expanders were super-rare because they cost so much. Having them be viable (mainly due to the new monster pretenders which are cheap in points and strong vs indies) is nice.
Awake expanders haven't even pushed scale builds out (though they're definitely less common), so I think they're in a fairly good place.
It just needs some nerfs to earth snake and/or buffs to other monster pretenders so we see some variety in awake expanders.
Anyone know what's up with llamaserver atm, preventing games from being hosted?
>>148511443
Send llama beer
play turns
>>148515039
Oh, I think we need to sub him out.
>>148515063
Actually, since it's Turn 1, I'll un-start and get a replacement I think. No need to lock whoever replaces with the same pretender/nation.
I guess game's open for signups again. Need 1-3 more newbs.
>>148515160
Make sure to announce it LOUD and CLEAR, last thread when game started two guys mentioned wanting to be in.
>>148516773
yep
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/vanheimageofvidya/discussions/0/358416640392212422/
Game is here. Novice Game II. 1-3 more slots open, on account of the restart. Summod, WH, links all in the thread. Post what nation you're taking if you're joining.
>>148517228
Oh my, haven't seen then in a while. I wonder how shrapnelforums are doing nowadays.
>>148517378
>shrapnelforums
ded
>>148517421
like this game
>>148520106
I've never played R'lyeh (or any UW nation for that matter) How does it benefit from BoT?
Why is Maverni and Yomu considered weak?
Bad troops?
>>148520906
It's less that it benefits and more that it hurts less than other living nations
>>148520906
It doesn't, really. It's just that it usually has no way of actually winning or even affecting who does win, so making everyone else miserable though cancer globals and armageddon spam is just about the most impact they'll ever have on the game.
>>148521035
Pretty much just that, yeah. They're not universally considered weak.
>>148521149
MA R'lyeh is okay. It just gets wrecked by Pelagia super hard
What did he mean by this?
Hey admin, did you re-add me to the new setup or did somebody else pick Berytos before I could? If somebody else did that's all right, I'll just try another nation.
>>148522962
No one's nation was removed except for Lanka; the game was just rolled back. You can resend your pretender to confirm, if you want.
>>148521035
Bad troops and not amazing mages.
Marverni has decent mages, but you need a lot of them to do anything so they tend to travel in large armies. That leaves them low on mobility and weak to battlefield kill.
Yomi gets to choose between their overpriced oni generals and hannya, or old age human Sorcerors.
>>148522962
I think unstart keeps all old pretenders. Unless admin specifically removed you, you should be still in the game.
Easiest way to make sure would be to resubmit your pretender 2h. Llamaserver should say you've updated your pretender if you're in the game, or send you an error message if Berytos is someone else.
>>148523302
>I think unstart keeps all old pretenders.
It does, yeah. I removed Lanka manually.
>>148522570
RIP in pieces PersianDream, I never got to actually fight anyone but I got to try out some new expansion methods.
The dream has ended, the nightmare began.
>>148525016
Did the badmin delete the game?
>>148525247
No idea, server starting shitting itself and next turn wouldn't start >>148522570
And now the game doesn't even exist anymore.
I expect llama to reset from a past time.
>>148525354
If it's a Llamaserver error, the admin should contact Llama so he can fix it
>>148525504
Literally all of the games on llamaserver are having issues; he almost certainly knows.
>>148525754
None of the games I'm in got deleted though.
>>148525861
Well, what do you expect from that faggot that rehosted a turn because his friend lost a battle?
>>148526914
other games got deleted too.
Do casters of battlefield-wide spells like RoS and Earthquake get affected by enemy Blood Vengeance?
Or should I just bless my sacred with N or W to avoid them?
>>148527329
Yes, they do.
MA Pangea's winrate now higher than Lanka's.
woah
Agartha I want to talk with you in the steam chat.
![GunshowDogLaugh[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/XqiPWXf.png "GunshowDogLaugh[1].png")
>>148527905
>lost a major battle last turn
>mfw rollback one turn
>>148527329
How does W protect you from Blood vengeance?
>>148529670
W bless increase defense and Earthquake is an attack roll, so high defense helps against it, making a W bless a good counter to earthquake, just like blood vangeance is a good counter to earthquake.
both won't work against defensive turn 1 EQ/RoS(unless you bring your god) and both will still have some of your units die.
>>148529845
Ah I though he was casting Earthquake against enemy blood vengeance using a sacred caster.
What's the trick to using seeking arrow?
>>148531232
Probably using it more than once, since it won't oneshoot units pretty often.
>>148531232
It's very good vs reanimate nations, cause it does serious work vs mound kings. Other than that though . . .
>>148531232
IMO the best way to use it is spam it on an army that is about to attack you. If you happen to nail a few commanders with it, it could mean that half their army won't join the fight due to being leaderless, and if you manage to kill an important mage (like one scripted to cast battlefield enchants) that could easily turn the tide of battle as well.
It's useless as an assassination tool since it will often fail to kill anything and there's no way to control what it hits, but if used defensively like this it can catch the enemy unaware and there's nothing he can do about it since magic phase goes before attack phase, so his guys will die right before he attacks.
>>148531232
Spend 70 air gems on it. Laugh at your opponent who spent 150 to gear his SC.
>Game starts
>Starting army gets beaten
>Turn 2
>Gets beaten again
>No more army
>All the mercs are already employed
>Turn 5 now and still haven't expanded to a single province
>>148532756
>expanding on turn 1
You asked for it.
>>148532756
Just go AI.
>>148532756
Why didn't you expand on turn 4 with whatever you produced in turn 2 and turn 3?
The Throne of Gaia has awakened!
>>148533851
>>148531232
Basically work out with mathatical precision how many are needed to kill the target. It works best against things which need buffing rounds at the start of combat, or Pretenders in hostile dominion.
Ask Coolstory for more specific advice, he's been using them to horrific effect in the disciple game.
LLAMA REEEEEEEEEEEEI'm going to try a rollback
![50c1c695ace21d49563aae0022674914[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Gph0QHO.png "50c1c695ace21d49563aae0022674914[1].png")
>>148534603
Fucks sake man
>>148534762
>Sorry, this isn't a real game. Have you been messing with my URL?
JUST
>>148534953
>>148534762
Even llama knows that your games are shit and should be destroyed.
>>148534603
Rule 1 of admining, if Llama is fixing shit don't start inputting commands or it will fuck up.
>>148535712
I sent him an email anyway, pretty sure there's an archive on the system.
>>148535782
Yes, your game was recovered from that archive with only the current turn. You then hit rollback, when it only had that turn, making it rollback into nothing.
I mean come on man, how do you fuck up every time with admining?
>>148531718
>Laugh at your opponent who spent 150 to gear his SC.
Eh, SCs that are worth spending 150 gems worth of gear on them will survive 70 gems worth of arrows.
>>148536768
70 gems of arrows is around 17 arrows, which are 8AN each, which brings us to around 136 base damage and 34d6 DRN +- any misses. It's pretty hard to survive this.
>First message says that Marignon doesn't mind friendly giants
>second message says that he accidentally took a province that I had owned that the AI randomly took due to some scripting errors and that I should take it back with a scout or something
>third message says that actually he needs it so that he can move his armies around more quickly
Err, sure, Marignon, whatever you say.
>>148537035
He is bullying you.
I'm playing Maverni. I have a very aggressive Caelum on my doorstep who's threatening a retardedly early war. We are still in year one.
I have thau 1 researched, my bless is W9 due to disciple game. What should I research so my mages are worthwhile ASAP?
>>148538191
What's his bless and what are your allies?
>>148538191
You need LoTNS in conj 3 and stellar cascades in evo 5 so that you can make use of all of the cheap S1 mages that Marverni has. That will take a while but you don't have too much choice as Marverni
>>148538270
No clue what his bless is yet, though I'm pouring all my scouting towards his expansion areas.
My allies are Ys who's the pretender god, and TNN. We are using a mod that moves Ys into the EA. Neither is in a position to assist with troops.
>>148535890
Eh that's not completely fair, this is the message admins got:
>There are two options from here. Either you can treat the stale turn as a random event and carry on with the game, or you can roll back the turn and try to host again. If you try the latter your game admin will have to do the rollback via the admin options on the LlamaServer website, and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.
>Reminder: King of Bullies and Memegeddon hosting in NOT TWELVE HOURS
Oh fuck me, I didn't expect the remainder email to be for less than 12 bours, and now I'm at work. I would really appreciate a 2 hour extension in those too games, if it's not too late to get the admin's attention.
>>148538972
Would that stale turn (where nothing happens) have killed you?
This is why I don't play with story events on.
>>148539303
Based llama, fixing all the badmin fuckups.
>>148539387
>implying that the llamaserver having a severe crash is badmins fault
Giving too much credit mate
>>148539471
Trying to roll back is, though.
>gotta repeat my turn for the third time now
What a time to be alive.
>>148539603
It would be if llama didn't present rolling back as legitimate option >>148538972
>>148538191
You could go into evo for Star Fires, or a bit more into thaum for Mind Blast.
Both are pretty terrible and your long-term goals should be >>148538605, but if you absolutely need to give S1 mages something to cast that's the quickest option.
I think you'd be best off just spamming troops if you get in a fight with him. Marverni's troops aren't great but they're better than Caelum's.
>>148539686
Just wait till you see what happened. Apparently we get two turns worth of staling now thanks to the badmin's roleback.
![dbd0a7d5c88205965123e824659cdcf5[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/kE2couB.png "dbd0a7d5c88205965123e824659cdcf5[1].png")
>>148540448
Should be fine according to llama. We get a stale turn because of llamaserver regardless what happens.
>>148540448
My income was 1600-1800 so I'm fine with that.
>mfw first time bought an entire stack of cheap units and now I'm buying the same number of the best ones
So from my understanding we had the server fail to process turn 20. Then a failed rollback that made our game disappear. Now we have our game restored to turn 21 but everyone staled? Which sucks but is better than the game being over. Am I missing anything?
Also I used the second turn 21 file llama sent us but it said llama revived turn 22 from me, so hopefully that's just a carry over from this glitch.
>>148543604
You should rename it to "UW nation"
>>148539113
RIP me. At least I'll get new turns on my lunch break
I'm stuck in an airport and I doubt I'll be able to make it home until Sunday evening.
I'm gonna need extensions in a couple of games: ErmorOP, and Europa.
Sorry for any inconvenience, but it can't be helped.
>>148543925
Put on a name, and maybe sempai will notice you
>>148543925
Memegeddon will be delayed by 12 hours, or until all the non perma stalers take their turns.
Just got another email back from llama after asking about the turns not sending properly.
Turns are working properly without issues now.
>>148543842
>astral corruption.png
>>148544980
At least have a common courtesy to say who you are in those games.
So Caelum got subbed right? Is new Caelum in the thread?
>>148546413
I exist.
Would giving this randomgen sacred a bless be worthwhile? They'll be backed up by tons of Illithids casting weakness because it's my cheapest resource option.
>>148545796
>3 weeks
>AC
It should last until the game is over, if the player who casted it knows how to keep the caster safe and overcasted it.
>>148546681
I can seem the being useful with N9Ex. Very high attack and good damage, solid protection.
>>148545904
Sceleria and Jomon, respectively.
It's Ludroth.
>>148546681
>encumbrance 7
>defense 9, no shield
>only one attack
>35 gold, 18 hp
eh. it's mediocre...are they size 3? so depressing if they are not size 2.
i would go for N9E4 or even just N9 but only if you have a good pretender for it.
do you have other units able to enter UW? if yes you might not want to go for a bless.
do you have casters able to cast darkness?
if not they might be so useless after expansion you might want to give up getting a bless.
>>148546775
Only 3 weeks? How adorable. I've forgotten a time when AC in Flatus wasn't up.
>>148546681
They're slow, have low defense, and no shield. Everything else is good or even great, so with the right bless they'd certainly be useful, but I wouldn't invest too heavily in them especially if they're cap-only.
>be impatient
>just want to play the damn game
>join 4 games
>they're all about to start at the same time
Surely this can't go wrong?
>>148549909
I'm in 6 games step up senpai.
>>148549909
it will be a wonderful hell when you reach turn 50 + in all of them, with multiple wars going on.
>>148550064
Should be mostly okay. The turns will all be short at first, then as the games advance the turns will be more intense but they won't be as synced up.
>Being in more than three games at a time
That path can only lead to suffering and madnessand staling
>>148552015
The most games I've ever been in at one time was 12 and I've only staled three times in the two years that I've played this game, none of which were due to being in too many games.
>>148552015
In 10 games atm, never staled even once.
>>148552259
>>148553784
#turnbragging
Are there any games starting rn that need players? Been looking for a game for the first time in months and the Desura forums are completely dead. Guess it's time to move on.
I actually e-mailed llama and asked if it was safe to roll back. He said it should be fine. Then the game exploded. This one's not on the badmin. Enjoy your cosmic maelstrom.
>>148554472
STEP UP
T
E
P
U
P
>>148554513
There's a 10 man game on Snerdyn for novices that only has 8 or so players.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/vanheimageofvidya/discussions/0/358416640392212422/
>>148531232
>>148555057
SHOT IN THE HEAR
AND ELVES ARE TO BLAME
Does Fomoria count as elves?
They can recruit pseudo-elves (no ponymans though), but they're cap-only and most of both their troops and their units are giants and humans.
>>148556013
nah. not really.
