Infra Arcana 18.2 released: https://sites.google.com/site/infraarcana/downloads
Release Notes: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/martin-tornqvist/ia/v18.2/assets/release_history.txt
New Demon Release introduces Relic upgrades: http://demon.ferretdev.org/devblog/71-upgrade-complete/
Poschengband 5.0.0 released (breaks save compatibility!)
http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showpost.php?p=111423&postcount=233
Vanilla Angband Comp(until July 6)
Elf Warrior with a permacursed Deathwreaker:
http://angband.oook.cz/competition.php
>FAQ and What to Play
FAQ: http://pastebin.com/Q7K91Q34
What to Play?: http://pastebin.com/yfUKx35f
>Webterminal
Rogue Nexus – Cataclysm online with shared map and tons of other roguelikes in a simple online package! (USA Only)
http://roguenex.us
>Individual Game Pastas
http://pastebin.com/pkf1qnuZ
Previous thread: >>147531023
1st for ring monster race
It always amuses me to see early monsters with OOD weapons.
>Elona back and coming to steam
>new OWH
>new MSE
Based nips. It's a good fucking year for roguelikes.Implying any of those will actually release this decade
>>147666883
>?
>what the fuck is up with this huge axe, man?
>>147666168
Hey now, Toady actually adds depth and meaningful shit to Dorf Fort.
>>147667101
>coming to steam
I can see the SJW shitstorm now
>You can pet your, "little girl" put a leash on her, whip her into submission, and then impregnate her like in the alien movies!
I didn't realize how good 50% torment resistance was
Do i jump into the abyss? It's the only thing i can think of that won't immediately kill me
>>147667421
>like in the alien movies
That's nothing though, you can marry, have heavily implied sex with, and produce a heir with pretty much anything in the entire game.
>>147667247
When was the last time it happened?
Climbing update?
>>147667665
Current year, when implied sex with dogs and motorcycles broke the internet.
>>147667665
Then Elona is the most progressive game in existence. They should have zero complaints.
>>147668513
Marrying and especially impregnating children is extremely anti-progressive. It is the epitome of tradition and stands against everything left stands for.
You can give alcohol to a wolf in order to get it drunk, and then prostitute yourself to the wolf.
This takes place in the most holy site on the planet.
>>147668513
Having sex with anything is only progressive if you're not a white man. Remember that these are the same people that want to make female sex robots illegal.
>>147669224
why do they want me to stay a virgin
>>147668774
>return home
>some guy is there
>asks if you want to make a movie
>say sure
>pic related
>>147668774
>1.41
Why
And yeah Elona is degenerate as fuck. Now take your loli to a horse ranch and get both of them drunk.
>>147669352
>Startup game
>Maid says some faggot is here
>Punk asks me if I'm I'm ready
>Think they want to fight
dick unity
>>147669224
Which is funny, as even prostitutes don't feel threatened by sex bots.
>>147668774
Then marry the wolf, and have children. Seems like one of those 'better than twilight' things.
>>147667542
Alright, i survived
But now i'm stuck
Is blink limited in range? I thought you could go anywhere in your FoV
>>147669224
>Remember that these are the same people that want to make female sex robots illegal.
Terrible. They want to take everything from me.
>>147669934
I like how having sex causes the townsfolk to get their stats exercised.
>>147669975
It's honestly not that funny. They're fucking insane and yet wield a lot of influence in western society.
But lets stop because this isn't video games.
>>147669983
Banish yourself.
>>147670523
Is that a marilith?
>>147670995
To what end? Won't he come back out at the same place when he exits?
>>147671031
Yes and they're very underwhelming. I'm pretty sure I was stronger as a Death Imp because I was basically a levitating human with wallphase and all the relevant innate spells already.
My gear might just be weak though.
>>147669983
I want to make fun of you for not having levitation this far into the game, but I suspect it might have been removed since the last time I actually played it.
>>147671565
Oh right.
>>147670995
>>147671815
In the end i went south-east, it worked that way. I could've sworn i had a ring with +lev, but i guess i left it in my stash. Funnily enough i found a ring of levitation in the south-eastern room, so it all worked out
Except i'm running around in circles because ice fiends keep tormenting me down to 40HP, who the fuck thought this was a good idea needs to be shot
If only i had necromutation
>>147672316
sorry
i fucked up as i often do
i didnt make that thread though
>>147669934
>Brother Love
>first thing you do is shag some rando in a pub
like pottery
>>147668269
Library, taverns, and needs update, which just happened.
>>147673218
did he ever fix the military aspect
>>147673218
Do they actually do anything or are just pure bloat like dances and history?
so i switch over right? 12 in shields already only 10 in maces and have a necro manual
>beating monsters with my wizardstaff does comparable damage to my best spell
I don't even know what to do with this character besides grind lonely mountain:39 until I get bored and die stupidly.
>smiting still destroys you because orc priests spawn in packs of 3 whenever you spot an orc and you get chainblasted with Smite
Oh boy time to play Formicid for the rest of my life to murderhole myself into an unsmiteable and unkillable situation
>>147666832
>the thread throws you off in disgust!
>>147673513
Yes, it's a perfect 3rune weapon
>>147673804
im going for 15
>>147673291
Morale and needs fulfillment (fulfilling all needs gives you a fat and apparently global bonus to rolls), new kind of industry for export, way to circulate secrets (mostly relevant if you want a necrofort or use modded secrets) source of early permanent, iffy military squad members that doesn't need to eat or drink, new way to train various stats and skills that are otherwise very annoying and problematic to train (discipline & diagnostician), good preparation for military, and perhaps most importantly of all, way to get multiracial forts.
>>147673289
Not really, other than that depending on personality and discipline civ dwarves will engage rather than run from monsters, so off duty soldiers with gear can be used to defend.
>>147667101
>coming to steam
>no source posted
>>147673885
No you're going for dying stupidly after winning again.
>>147674068
same as always brother
>>147674068
Demise please go
>>147674128
>the noise was so loud it killed you
damn. whats it like playing a fucking pussy
>>147670523
>not sextuple wielding
why even play
>>147674351
marilith only have 6 arms
>>147673523
what character? what spell school?
>>147674519
hmmm with only 6 arms how could you possibly hold 6 things at once
i think we need a mathematician in here or something to help answer this question
>>147674730
i think that one weapon is two handed
>>147674730
he can only wield 4 because hes got to walk
use your head anon
>>147674351
>>147674730
Too bad dual-wielding is terrible in Poschengband except for the 5 or so classes which get an added dual-wield bonus on top of the skill cap, characters who waste a feat on Ambidexterity, characters who waste a slot on Genji, or characters who get Mephistopheles.
>>147674312
bad
its all bad
>>147675549
Are you deliberately overlooking that he's wielding 3 swords and 3 shields, so in theory the three shields could be replaced by 3 more swords?
>>147675775
why is he wearing shields on his feet?
>>147675849
To guard against caltrops, duh.
marilith using shields is not canon
You fucking wot
>>147675897
Unfortunately you're not allowed to play Marilith the fun way without dying.
>>147675650
Guess what the marilith racial boss reward is.
>>147676505
It's their racial boss, but afaik they don't get a bonus chance to get it (it's still 5%).
Do tell me if that's wrong though.
>>147676301
you're not allowed to play anything the fun way
poschengband fucking sucks
more like POS-chengband
>>147676505
snake sex?
>>147676698
More like PozChengband.
Because the game has AIDS, you see.
more like pozcumbutt right guys
>>147676505
I hope you found Narya.
>>147676742
m-more like
poschengBAD
>>147676682
It's 100% to get your racial boss drop for every monster class.
>>147676830
Post the code that does this.
I've been playing Dwarf Fortress for a year, and just discovered this general. What would you guys recommend for a beginner? (I have my experience with adventure mode).
>>147676869
We have a what to play pasta with a section on good beginner roguelikes.
If you have played DF though I'm sure you'll be quick to catch onto anything listed in there.
damn
makes u think huh
>>147676864
https://github.com/poschengband/poschengband/blob/50a63151b8fd0002d3012374adab345b273e4542/src/xtra2.c#L2105
chance = 100 a few lines down
350% experience penalty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycbF--zleYA
>much higher budget
>appears to have much more content
>story completely different, might not be as good
>music seems very vanilla JRPG, not nearly as good as the original
I don't know how to feel about this.
>>147676869
DCSS is THE starter roguelike. The interface is very helpful, everything is pretty obvious and easy to learn, and the tilesets are nice. Since you've started with DF Adventure mode you should probably be comfortable with just about anything the general would suggest though.
>>147677205
Oh cool, thanks.
I was looking at this stuff and thought it would all be cased.
>>147675507
in pcb you can get bonuses for wielding certain weapons in two hands but everything still CAN be in a single hand
>>147675650
What does Mephistopheles do?
>>147661009
No, they aren't. They're true neutral ranging to chaotic neutral.
>>147677303
what the fuck is that purple wall in the back chasing the player
>>147677430
It's like Genji except it does other stuff besides increasing dual-wielding ability.
>>147677412
Omarax has an artifact?
>>147676742
>>147676802
>>147676820
I literally can't stop blowing air from my noise at a faster speed than usual
>>147676135
>tfw you activate the zenura weave
>>147677430
Only thing that is better than these is The Set of Gauntlets of the Master Tonberry
>>147677205
case MON_ROBIN_HOOD:
a_idx = ART_ROBIN_HOOD;
chance = 5;
break;
That's pretty weak.
>>147677430
artifact gloves of genji with some +speed and +damage
>>147677742
don't forget the 1/666 chance for gollum to drop The One Ring
(and 1/10 for sauron)
>>147677570
i had a nice chuckle
>>147677726
garbage through and through
>>147677551
>>147677726
>>147677753
Speaking of which, how does Genji work out with multi-wielding? I always assumed they were like Slaying/Brand gloves in that they only boost the pair of hands that they're assigned to, will one set give you the ambi bonus to all 3 pairs of hands?
>>147677949
What? These? Is the vulnerability that bad?
First time fighting Lom Lobon, what do i watch out for?
yo what kinda bullshit this swamp vault wtf all zombies and ghost crabs.
>>147678178
Tornado and Chain Lightning. Kill him quickly, he has regen. You'll probably get your ass smashed.
>>147663640
mystic seems like a potentially neat monk alternative with not having to rely on finding books and shit,except that their spell list is AWFUL. like 75% of it is "attack, but with [brand].
>>147678178
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Lom_Lobon
>>147678345
>linking to the fucking wiki
>>147678098
They also give -2 (I think) blows, which makes them mostly unusable for tonberries (who have them as a guaranteed drop).
Isn't it sad
>>147678325
I don't think it's that bad.
>>147678386
>asking questions that can be answered by googing
>using arrowheads when there shouldnt even be an unironic troll response
gas your kike ass
>>147678567
>implying i'm him
do not link to the fucking wiki
>>147678178
If you are a melee dude and have spare blink scrolls you'll probably want to use some just so you can get next to him. He blinks all over the place while spamming his ball lightning and tornado.
>>147677520
That's the world being annihilated behind you. You die if it catches you.
>>147678612
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Lava_Orc
i hope you join them
>>147678098
shouldn't they have -2.00 to blows as well
>>147678706
that sounds like a shitty gimmick. ah well
>>147673291
>complaining about bloat
>in Dorf fuckin Fort of all things
Your kind are a bleeding, oozing fistula. Take your own advice and ~remove~ yourselves from this mortal coil.
>>147678914
It's actually pretty great.
My favourite RL clock.
>>147678497
i mean remember you're losing out on shit like clairvoyance and herbal healing for this
stunning/knockout are potentially good (and maybe needle too?)
haste self and resistance are nice to have but they come at the point where they're not really increasing your power much. haste just saves you an inventory slot
the elemental brands should just become passive always-on class features or something
make the mystic the martial artist who's better at doing damage while monks get better utility
>>147678631
>>147678229
Yeah i tried engaging him twice and couldn't do shit. Ran out of blinks so i can't even ninja the rune
>>147679271
wait martial arts get passive stunning attacks anyways
so the stunning blow doesn't even matter
>>147679271
>playing life monk
>ever
how do you like your babbymode
>OWH was originally just supposed to be ported to console
>devs decide to remake the entire game
>and then port it back to PC
>>147679304
Nevermind disto blade TP'd it away and i snatched it
Seems like it's becoming a recurring trend
>>147679505
i actually haven't played a monk
anyways the meme spell school is nature
>>147679304
You weren't supposed to use all of them. They are a valuable resource, maybe leave at least 3 the next time?
That reminds me, the last time I grabbed the icy rune, Antaeus was nowhere to be found. The fortress room containing the rune had that and the usual loot, but he wasn't guarding it. This vault had an identical room opposite to it, in there I found more loot and the cloak of the thief in the position where the rune was on the other one. Does anyone know what could've happened here?
>>147679505
Playing Life Monk is like trying to streak in Crawl: A test of patience that surpasses any other challenge in the game.
>>147679731
Antaeus probably heard something and walked out. You must have just missed him
>>147679698
Oh boy it's going to be a PC port?
>>147679830
But I actually explored the whole place trying to find him, in part because I was baffled at him being missing, and because I just wanted to kill the fucker and my character was really strong.
>>147679885
It already has a steam page.
>>147680108
Oh boy.
The angel recites Zin's Axioms of Law.
The angel recites sonorously on potions of mutation - the devil's brew!
_The angel explains the importance of rejecting the service of demons.
The angel recites the books of the Law.
The angel recites the sacred Law of Zin.
why do they always make these so good but the rest of the game a shit
>>147679934
Possibly banished to the Abyss by an unfriendly monster, trap or item? Never fought him but I've been surprised to find dudes in the abyss later after I've encountered them in the dungeon. Once with erolcha and once Donald showed up after I ran away in lair and got banished.
>>147680589
Sounds like an option, except I don't think anything in Cocytus can actually banish and I'd expect Antaeus, and all the other boss uniques, are protected against that kind of thing.
>>147681074
do the hecklords have infinite mr like panlords? if so they can only be abyssed by distortion/chaos melee
>>147681187
>hecklords
good... good
>Made yerles gunner in elona
>Character has shit for weight limit
>>147680365
>I can finally play a Danganronpa roguelike
There need to be more Japanese and fewer Swedes in this genre.
roka and his band of pals are camping the only currently-reachable staircase to Orc:2
i guess i'll go do the dungeon instead
Equivalent exchange.
>>147682759
now polymorph her into a juggernaut
well i WAS in a safe position
>>147682081
Get weightlifting skill. It is in the town with all the harvest quests.
>>147683507
>her
Thanks to everyone who came to the official /rlg/ party it was a great time lads
>corrupted Temple
Fuck you Lugonu, this was going to be my first Ru run
>>147684340
PARTY?
WHY WASN'T I INVITED?
>>147684359
Nevermind found him in the same floor :DDD
![84c[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hUyxyzE.jpg "84c[1].jpg")
>>147684592
where is our invitation bones
>>147684750
I don't know boss.
>>147684340
I wonder if the guy who came dressed as a wizard is browsing here now, he knew some really cool tricks
Playing elona, random event kills <loyter> The crimson of Zanan.
Profit.
>>147684954
This replaced my bronze armor [5,5]
Okay so what's more convenient, sacrifice armor skill or permanently lose 2 Dex? Is armor worth training yet?
>>147684954
It's been ages since I played, but I think 57 PV is a lot even for one of my characters which had like 300 hours in it. Damn.
>>147685232
this is worse than awooposting
>>147685271
Sacrifice the Dex, Armor skill is way more important. That Dex loss might drop 2 EV, but that Armor skill wiill save a lot more if you ever pick up heavy armor, and it will allow you to cast reasonably well in lighter armors.
>>147685271
>which had like 300 hours in it
ENCHANT
YOUR
GEARRRRRRRRR
Ru sacrifices really depend on how much piety you have and how much piety you need. If it is your first sacrifice and you are a race with good dodging, sacrificing armor could be good (you will have to use <10 ER stuff the whole game which means you kinda miss out on Dragon Armour). If you don't want to do that then sac the dex, but I think that's a less major sacrifice then armor.
>>147685547
Lots of things are inferior to awooposting, but that doesn't mean you need to be rude.
>>147685693
>2 dex is worth more than the entire armor skill
yeah okay dude
oh hey i forgot i left this nerd behind in lair and i ran into him while picking up a wand
>>147685271
Obviously armor is much more of a sacrifice than 2 dex. But it probably also gives much more piety.
>>147685810
But I said the opposite of that?
>>147685547
Why not both?
>>147685591
>>147685693
Thanks for the advice
>enchant your gear
Turns out my character file was still somewhere, and yeah the reason I only had 60 PV on my body armor was because it also had a fuckton of DV.
guys can I post my Demon win here
>>147685271
Yeah, and the nether, magic and poison res are also great. Dropped my 10k on it to enchant it when I got it.
too good
>>147686197
Shit my character looked so bad, I don't remember it being like that.
I got all those arms by cheating by the way, after I finally had enough of the game. The equipment is legit, though.In reality I didn't have enough, but I was spending so much time playing it that I found ways to finally drop it.
>>147686252
Of course, anon
DEMON WIN FAGGOTS
>>147686252
Only if you're a faggots.
>>147686420
Omedetou!
Is that some kind of /mu/ meme?
How do you guys feel about pic related? I just started playing it and it seems pretty dope.
$30 is way too fucking much though. I'll buy when there's a price drop.
>>147686541
I don't know man I'm just listening to some vaporwave after it was recommended here. You guys have good taste
>>147686381
Yeah was wondering about the speed penalties that so much extra arms would cause.
>>147686878
It's terrible. Back to the drawing board, dev-kun.
so how powerful monsters can i charm as a ring? Does the number near charm power indicate max level of monster i can charm? Cause i noticed a Temporal Champion on my level, and that ringbearer is just too good to pass.
>>147687368
Why do you say it's terrible? So far it seems really polished.
>>147686381
What the fuck is that phoenix thing?
>>147687783
Fully evolved fire dragon child. Has the same appearance as Vansesda which is a boss in Lost Irva.
>>147687783
Fffffuck killer bees!
>>147686878
>$30 is too much
>for an average entry in a genre where games are typically free
There's no reason to spend money unless you got seduced by hype.
>>147687592
I think it rolls something like 1d(power) vs monster level, with a few bonuses to resist from shit like being a unique
Welcome to the dragon's lair!
>>147689053
>You are too scared to read the scroll of teleport!
>You die...
>>147689006
WHY
THATS LIKE STOPPING AT 7 ZIGS
OR STOPPING AT 7 RUNES
>>147689316
It was my time to go, anon.
In all seriousness, my wrist was getting fucked up from playing for 7 days straight. I also neglected real life commitments that, sadly, must take precedence over roguelikes.
>>147690136
The man who rogueliked himself to death.
>>147690136
rip lad
>>147689053
>tfw walked onto 555 map tile and breathed on by a chaos wyrm before i even got a turn
If I have the demonic guardian mutation and I sacrifice love with Ru, will I spawn hostile demons next to me for the rest of the game? lel
>>147691070
it probably just supresses
>when you realize that you just started a winter character with PK's mod
Jesus Christ.
If the shelter hadn't been far away from the city I'd be dead right now. God bless that moose for all its vitamin-full offal.
>>147687716
A polished turd is still a turd.
>>147694075
What does PK's rebalance do exactly? Cataclysm mods aren't exactly descriptive and they don't seem to have changelogs of any sort.
>>147694512
Adds tons of new critters and changes the existing ones.
Some of the changes are quite OK and make weak things not suck, while (most) others are just DUDE WHAT IF x HAD THE ABILITY TO y.
>>147694512
Makes everything hurt.
Basically he added zombie evolutions that are stronger, nastier and generally fucking terrifying. And he filled the gap with most zeds that never got an evolution (swimmers, fat, shambling etc) and added a lot of new locations (the hell castle, bandit outposts).
It basically is just a way to scale with how ridiculously overpowered dudes get in DDA's endgame. I personally don't really like to break the game with unarmed or katanas or rivtech and survivor armor, so I'm quite scared of what's going to happen.
>>147694914
Swimmers actually do have an evolution! I've just never seen it.
>>147694876
So basically a few good ideas taken a bit too far.
Bandit outposts sound cool.
What the fuck is up with the way Dodging raises in CDDA?
I feel like a dumb MiBe player.
>>147696849
You only get skill when you dodge succesfully, and your skill is not overmatching their attack skill. (you don't learn from easy to dodge attacks). And then the skill gain gets a reduction from focus.
But most of the time you don't dodge, you just have enough armor.
Seems like something a Russian would do.
>snow doesn't create snow fields you can use to grab water
>it doesn't get collected in funnels
I'm getting dehydrated here people
>>147698191
Just wait for Kevin to merge the bodily functions PR so you can drink your own piss.
>>147698191
>He didn't save hundreds of barrels of that sweet summer rain
>hustle bones comin out my mouth
>What a noble sacrifice!
>>147698308
>summer rain
winter start
by the time you usually reach winter you already found a pool anyway
>>147698646
Are you that LMOE guy, or did you take a cabin start? Cabin start is actually kind of brutal with how limited water is. You basically need to jump into town for toilet wine, find a river or swamp, or get lucky with a pool.
>>147698775
I just took the winter start with the regular shelter for the multi-tool.
Apparently either flurries give water or there was a drizzle while I was crafting because I got about 10 water in my funnels now.
>>147698634
>he didn't close his eyes and seize it
>cudgel doesn't have techniques anymore
Finally they fixed it.
Is there a way to stop the message spam? I used to think it was only because my wooden cart had no wheels but I still get this with a shopping cart.
I mean I could put on some earplugs.
Finally.
>>147701332
Could be because you don't have enough strength
>>147701368
>playing anything with an exp penalty over 250
The pain of losing a promising character never seems to dull
Could I build a wooden keg outside and put a funnel on top of it to collect water as if it was a really really big bottle?
>>147701332
CDDA could really use message channel settings like DCSS.
How are liches? Are they actually any fun? Monster spellcasting seems like a pretty major crapshoot.
>>147702869
If the container stores units of liters you can put a funnel over it.
>>147702984
yeah that's what I thought, but apparently they're both in the "TRAP" field, so I can't put one on top of the other.
It's either the funnel or the keg.
I could try to do a hackjob in the .json to try and fix it but I don't know if that would work.
>>147702957
they're awful.
>>147702957
Avoid it because once you get to the archlich form you roflstomp everything since you have summons, manastorms, and fucking passwall. No fun at all since it combines grinding and then ezmode into one shitty package.
>>147703081
You can put it on another frame and it will still work
>>147702957
They are a device class with spell support. If you do not like golf-bagging you will not have fun.
Their XP penalty is really high and their health is not great. I would not recommend them unless you enjoy struggling.
Castable mana storm and Hi Undead is nice though.
>>147703334
>You can put it on another frame
you mean actually putting it on a vehicle? No man I'm talking about the standing keg. It's a construction 3 impassable furniture that stores about 500 liters of liquids.
The thing is that you don't need a metal sawing 2/ welder/ wood sawing 2 item to make it, just some basic trash tools and a lot of nails/two by fours.
I can't install that on a vehicle.
>>147703494
Oh, I thought you were talking about the vehicle part wooden barrel
Anyone playing Dungeons of Dreadmor? Can't find a 10 star ring I obtained in the database and it's stats is only +1 magic attack. This can't be right.
>>147703552
I think I could work with that, but I can't install a leather funnel on it which kinda sucks and makes no sense
How do you guys do your fire with no smoke early if you don't have a house with a wood stove?
>>147703631
Braziers only create a 1 tile smoke field nowadays.
The chance of being in one of those tiles when you're starting out and don't have a filter mask are 1/9 is something like 11 %, which is pretty low.
>double library mansion
Books are probably one of the worst mechanics in CDDA.
>>147705256
I was thinking the exact same thing earlier.
>allows you to level almost all skills for free
>actually practicing the skills is an awful way to level them
>some skills (computers) are even completely designed around them
If I could make a change to Cata, it'd be making it so that books don't train skills at all, practicing skills gives substantially more XP than it currently does (except melee, I think that's fine), and adding more lower-leveled opportunities for computer leveling. The odd SD card you find isn't even close to enough.
>can't dig up earthworms in DDA for emergency food
>>147705621
you mean like making books in CDDA act like manuals in DCSS?
That sounds doable.
>>147705704
I was thinking making them into recipe books alone, but that sounds like it might be a better idea.
>>147706114
>Pain 53412
You fucking what
>>147706114
>:|
>balancing PCB races with exp penalties when the game has unlimited grinding
why is PCB so shit
>>147706389
because Chris is an idiot
>>147706114
That's when you wish you took Masochist
How do you get the flue anyhow?
>>147706114
>Moving off this plane of reality is slow! x 666
>>147706389
They are for fun, anon.
Why did ia.exe's logo disappear?
>>147686878
Don't buy from the mercantile mancamel.
