Drop rate edition
>>> What Is /v/scape? <<<
/v/scape is a 2.25x Runescape Private Server started on 4chan's /v/.
>>> NEW CLIENT (5.0b) SINCE THE 19th OF FEBRUARY, DOWNLOAD IT NOW<<<
>LAUNCHER+AUTO-UPDATER
https://mega.nz
/#!4xhyCIIC!s2vzuuJcisXuw6sktbLrKCJlYTY73HorROMdm7QFzlg
>MAIN
https://mega.nz
/#!BkZkHBBC!v-evcb3370MULZq8GG0pRdgmKh81vbQAhN9mvCrSVuI
>MUTE (No music output, For black screens no sound hardware etc):
https://mega.nz
/#!80JhyKRC!wTsv0HSxM4e_wsZGNxXIfiSjJRFa1HsviWp3tyg8O0M
>>> Current News <<<
Most recently a large UI and content update. Fremmy trials are going to be the next quest being released. Christianshitters flexing their power in their little mod staff hug group; just dont reply to them. Gay posting is now a punishable offense in thread and in game. Vscape's 2nd anniversary draws near.
>>> Getting Started <<<
To create an account, type in your desired username and password. If this does not work, it means the username is taken.
If you might be experiencing a different issue, please see: http://vscape.wikidot.com/wiki:how-to-play. For a beginner's guide, please see: http://vscape.wikidot.com/getting-started
>>> Wikis <<<
http://vscape.wikidot.com
For server specific information, which includes coordinate clues, quest guides, a FAQ page and more. For more general information, use http://2007.runescape.wikia.com/wiki/2007scape_Wiki. Remember to try to find your answer online before asking for help.
>>> Main Website <<<
http://vidyascape.no-ip.org - For hiscores, a world map, the bug tracker, and the dev blog.
>>> Steam Group <<<
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/vscape - For downloading the latest client version, or hanging out in the group chat.
>>> Staff <<<
>Admins<
Odel (!!Ma7uJItz9cg)
Pickles (!pikolGod2A)
Bobster (!Zse4f8H3iE)
Latent(!mentospepe)
Saxi (!nNy/WMqVk.)
Dr. Bitterness
DioWithit
Sellin all this
-Mango
>>135748901
All gone
>>135749005
stay mad wiggins
>>135748901
>zam body guthix coif
God dammit, I'm trying to either buy full zam dhide of guth dhide and those are the exact two pieces I already have. Fuck you fruit
>>135748901
update
fastest way to train combat without losing your fucking mind?
SELLING
- pic related junk
- antipoison+ 4k/dose; antipoison++ 200k/dose
- Super Attacks & Defences 750/dose
- Zamorak Brews, Poison++ (both preorder)
BUYING:
- melon seeds 10k/3 seeds
- poison ivy seeds 750 ea
- magic seeds 75k ea
- dstones 110k ea, key halves 60k ea
TRADING:
- Super Strengths, Super Restores, Antifires, Range Pots, Magic Pots for their secondary mats.
- Combat Bracelets for dstones, key halves, or Skills Necklaces
>>135754741
Do MM
Afk pray the zombie monkies under the ladder
Afk in wild vs rogues
Afk vs mosses
Afk in axe hut (and die to wiggins)
Afk vs chaos druids
nth for mcgarnage getting btfo
Wow, that other thread died quickly. I liked having the first post too. Oh well.
OFFICIAL 2016 CASTLE WARS EVENT
Get ready for /V/Scape's First Official Castle Wars Event, this March 25th, at 9pm Eastern!
Deadline to join is March 24th
1m gp Entry Fee
In order to join, you must PM Yousirname in game for your name to be added to the roster. He will assign you to a team based on your combat level. Teams will be made as fairly as possible. You must hurry, because there are only 5 spots per team!
>more spots will be added if there is enough interest!
>Rules and Regulations
>This event will be the best out of 3 rounds.
>Each Player on the winning team will win 2m gp.
>No quitting. Quitting will forfeit your entrance fee.
>No Team-Switching. Doing so will forfeit your entrance fee.
>In the event of a tie, the round winner will be the team that scored first.
>Deadline to join this event is Thursday, March 24th.
>The entrance fee is due right before the event starts on the 25th, paid to Yousirname
>The winning team will collect their winnings of 2m gp immediately after the event is over from Yousirname
With support from Mod Latent, Portals will be closed from those not participating in the event, to keep people from joining at the last second or from joining the wrong team. Also, game rounds will start immediately after one another, in order to make the game run faster and more smoothly.
For any further questions, please Private Message Yousirname, or join his Clan Chat if you have any questions.
TEAMS ARE FILLING UP, SO JOIN SOON(tm)!
>>135755939
>1m entry fee
ye ok bud the scam of a lifetime
>>135756063
>1m
>scam of a lifetime
Okay newfriend. Whatever you say
/v/scape body pillows when?
>1m entry fee
>places himself on the opposite team as wiggins
yeah it's absolutely a scam. AVOID.
>>135756724
Let's say its actually a scam and he tries to get away with it
Mods would give everyone back their money and the guy hosting would get banned
lol?
>>135756695
8/10 would buy and maintain
>>135757268
lol no. how can they get the money off the acc and what if hes just holding it on a mule. fucking retard
>>135757620
this 100% this. wildy skimmed millions off of his pot and absolutely got away with it
>>135757620
>mods can't check ips and trade logs
le funposting to try to ruin a good tourney xD
Allow me to use this opportunity to dispel some rumors and misconceptions people seem to have about this event.
>He's just gonna take our money and log off immediately!
If I were to do that, there's absolutely no way I wouldn't immediately get banned by one of the mods. This is a really small community, it's not like none of the admins would never find out about it.
>He's stacking the teams in his favor!
Nope. I will make the teams as even as I possibly can. If it turns out we have an odd number of players participating (which we do at this moment), I won't even participate. If that's the case, I won't even have the opportunity to win any money. I'll probably ask Latent to spawn me in the Castle Wars area just so I can see which team wins (if that's a thing that's possible for him to do. I honestly don't know).
>He has a mod making special code just so no one can join for free!
Latent offered. I gladly took him up on his offer, but he, nor any other mod, had to do anything for this event. Also, it seems that the fact people were threatening to just join the event anyway for free, before Latent made this code, it's a good thing he did. It'll help the event run that much more smoothly, without incident.
So, it you want to join, great! Just send me a private message, and I'll add you to the roster. If you've already joined, I can't wait to see you this Friday at 9pm Eastern. If you don't want to join, no problem. Just continue grinding as normal. This event will have absolutely no impact on you, gameplay wise. Hopefully we can put all of this behind us, and have fun!
>>135758413
And of course I forgot one point.
If anyone is interested, I'm not against having a free game of Castle Wars go on after the event, for anyone who'd like to join. That way, anyone who wants to play can play without having to worry about losing any of their money.
>be me
>grinding the grind
>laptop dies
>realize I've been sitting on the toilet for two hours playing vscape
>have to go take a shower because my butthole is too crusty to just wipe it
How is your day going, faggots?
Cutetorture has autism. Not the cute kind either.
>>135759026
>not leaving ur speakers turned all the way up so u can listen to skilling audio cues and cut ur shit short to resume skilling
>>135758413
>he won't take the money
see >>135758119
>>he's stacking the team!
>nope
of which we can't be sure, and you yourself stating it doesn't make it better
>It'll help the event run that much more smoothly, without incident.
Perhaps people want to join the actual event for free instead of paying for xp waste
>d-dispel this fiction
[adderall popping intensifies]
>>135758343
>good tourney
This tournament's setup is complete shit. 1m entry free that is undoubtedly be skimmed, no actual prize pot anyway, it's an attempt to gather the server for a grand event featuring 2, maybe 3 games because it's a best 2 of 3. It's not even an event. It's a short wager match that any of us could get together and do ourselves but without custom code and stacked teams.
>>135759026
>hypercrisis has logged out
>>135759026
Hi Hammi
>>135760427
>prize pots are bad, because you'll just skim the money!
>There's not even a prize pot, it's shit!
Sorry man. If you don't want to join, don't join. If you want to make your own free event, make your own free event. Any one else, please PM Yousirname if you'd like to join the event!
>>135761418
Yes, it's shit for two reasons, one is that there is no real prize pool, and two is that no matter what there is you'll skim it anyway. Those are non-conflicting statements, and you didn't even address anything else. We don't need to be reminded of your godawful 2 match "tournament"/"event" (scam) every 10 posts.
Wiggins is autistc
>>135762490
Sorry man. Obviously there's nothing I can say to change your mind. Again, if you don't want to join, that's fine. Don't let it upset you so much.
Hey, Qkumber
>>135762490
>>135762748
Why do you keep posting this with this picture
gas all gays
gas all weebs
>>135764717
Is that a worm, or a piece of shit?
>>135765049
it's (You)
>>135763786
yeah man?
>tfw cozy night of sleep aided by wiggin bedtime stories
From Hypercrisis
friendly reminder Hypercrisis and Cutetorture are literally eating pizza right now
>>135765617
FUCKING DESTROYED
>>135765008
How many people play this server? It was like 7 last time I tried. Idw complete tutorial island if there's no population, sadly. No rudeness intended.
>>135769721
Right now there's 40 people online.
>>135769721
~50 typically online at a time. i see a lot of new people every day, they just dont stick around forever.
i started about a week ago and the community is honestly pretty great relative to other /vg/ things.
pic related is my progress. total play time = 4 days 8 hours, account age = 7 days 16 hours.
the 2.25 rate is pretty great. an older server i played on with 6x was just way too high.
>>135770089
>>135770080
fuck.. I don't want to pay to play a gimped "oldschool rs" @ jagex, but I really hate the 2.25x bonus thing and the low pop. feels so much less authentic to me, thanks for the replies. i guess I will stay on until I get bored, it will never be the same. I wish 2006scape worked out.
>Tfw Drbitterness literally never responds ever.
>>135770295
50 is more than enough people. these are mostly people who know what they're doing.
having 100 people on a typical RS world back in 07 that knew what they were doing is probably about right (with total pops ~700 - 2000). you go somewhere useful, you see people. you wont have all the obscure nooks populated, but oh well
2.25x is not some sort of meme rate. it's good.
>>135770295
global chat makes the community a lot more active that it'd seem with such a low number of players
2.25 is honestly a pretty good compromise between people not having as much free time as when they played this back in 2006 and before, while also making the grind not stupidly fast like other private servers
>>135770550
is it really good? i feel like it ruins clue rewards and.. level gains. I mean aren't most of you daily players all like 70-90+ in your main skills? it seems easymode to me, I think last time I mentioned this, people said that they don't have the time nowadays for 1x rates but.. what's the hurry? idk man maybe I need to take my nostalgia goggles off, I feel like when things are 2.25x harder to obtain (with 1x rates) that they are more authentic when you get them. I wish I could play a 2006 server with a high population and 1x rates. jagex's bullshit is not for me.
>>135771034
given how exp scales, its only a few levels difference in the end. 60 for example requires 273k, 67 is 605k. so if you worked to get ~600k worth of exp with 1x rates you'd end up basically at 60 on realscape, but 67 here. is that gamebreaking? i dont quite think so.
>>135771548
er.. you know what i mean
273k realscape = 60
'273k' here is ~ 605k = 67
Where the fuck do I get a chef hat, goblins won't drop one and the vendor in Varrock that's supposed to sell them isn't there
>>135762748
is this a boy or a girl?I wouldn't
>>135771034
Put it this way: If you really really feel the need to authenticate yourself by grinding to 99 realscape xp, then go for 30m xp in whatever skill you're trying for in order to make up for that 2.25 xp rate. 99s are still going to take awhile to get on here, and the amount of people with 30m+ xp in a single skill is relatively low so you're free to do so and feel accomplished that you hit realscape 99s.
As far as population goes, 30-50 (online at one time, not total active amount) for now on a server that has 1 world is pretty ok, and the only way it can increase is if nostalgia friends like you come in and regular. Tutorial island takes like 5 minutes max and is apart of the nostalgia experience, play for a little while and see if it fits your bill.
>>135772070
Goblins m8, only way. Or try to buy one from players, but chefs hats are like visages here
yfw hypercrisis and cutetorture are literal normie pieces of shit that think it's funny to make fun of people on the server
>>135774032
>both nu-male cucks
what did i expect desu
>>135773601
>>135771726
Honestly the scaling on /v/scape means that you skip the actual difficult points of the skills - the early levels. With how the game is set up you would spend a lot of time doing terribly inefficient and unprofitable methods to get to levels where the skill became useful and the experience gains per actions were vastly increased but counteracted by the exponential increase in experience required per level. The fact that you can skip the early stage in most skills and get straight to the 50-60-70 area where most skills tend to pick up before hitting the wall around 92~ does seem a bit of a cheese and I can see why it would turn some people off.
>>135774032
See how they're holding that sword? That's going to be one lucky fag's cock later that night after they hit back ally Chiraq for a black tranny they both agree on
http://strawpoll.me/7129487
Well, /v/scape?
>>135774748
other for obby sword/neck
>>135774032
>beanie wearie faggot
>neckbeard
lel
>>135774748
A reminder that scimitars are a filthy saracen weapon and should never be used, longswords are the best choice in a christian server and should be used to stab everything.
>>135774748
Dramen Staff
>>135775526
t. huge shitter who cant do mm
holy shit cutetorture is so bad that the servers biggest shitter carries him
>>135774748
>no void mace
what the
>>135775689
>Projecting about a quest that can be done in an hour with a safespotable boss
>>135775712
God damn you niggas are gay.
>>135775712
>Lorde poster in the background
whose fucking house is that
>>135775712
>weight lifting belt to pic up the amazing 400 lb man
>picture of the long haired faggot on the back wall
>the door can't even afford real blinds
>a tv that has a backside that sticks out like a fat nigress
>the lamp can't even afford a full covering
>blanket on couch
>pirate flag on back wall
>a bike inside
>extension cords IN FRONT of your appliances like a filthy savage
so gay its a miracle you put on clothes long enough for the pic.
Poop
drop rate fix for Dragon Chainbody when?
>>135780581
'fix'
>>135781119
',:^)
Basedwiggins AKA implyingains AKA dagboys AKA fresh came through for some of that good old fashioned CHICAGO deepdish style 'za
Chicago, not even once.
>>135782645
>'za
God you're such a faggot
yo, random "normie" here. Tutorial island is bugged. I've got the "Mining and Smithing" message while I'm in the quest guides house. I can't go down the stairs and am unable to talk to the quest guide. I can go upstairs, but there's nothing there for me.
>>135783109
Relog?
>>135783109
Sorry, you got caught in our shitter filter. Please feel free to try another server.
>>135774032
tfw id consider letting diapersniper push eggs deep down inside my butthole.
>>135782645
>Chicago style
>Deepdish
> 'za
please kindly fuck yourself with a rusty knife
We don't want any more pictures of your hairy numale orgy.
>>135783202
Didn't work.
>>135783202
Sorry I'm garbage.
>>135783943
Can you post a screenshot? Maybe you're missing something.
>>135783943
I fucked up. I meant to say Didn't work to:>>135783201
Will commit seppuku to regain lost honour.
>>135784101
here you go
>>135784386
Restart or wait for an admin to get on
>>135784386
you aren't clicking the bookshelf are you?
>>135784609
yeah restarting didn't work. Admin will hopefully sort me out, but idk if I'll be interested tomorrow, but who knows. I just kinda stumbled upon this "colourful cast of ragtags scapers" through twitch, and have since then been called a normie and a nigger, which I'll take as a compliment. idk see ya when I see ya. Thanks for trying tho bud.
>>135784814
You could meme on community for the mean time, if you want
>>135784756
I am not
>>135784962
I will say, I am tempted by dank mems.
Alright, mod latent sorted me out. Thanks everyone.
>>135784814
>yeah restarting didn't work
I meant making a new character.
>>135785868
tried, but the other name I would've used was taken, wasn't worth the bother for a private server when I have an active OSRS membership (no offence)
>>135786002
>(no offence)
Literally no one gives a shit, don't worry about offending anyone. If you do offend them, then they can go fuck themselves.
>>135786002
dazage said he didn't play runescape faggot
>>135786142
Quite literally. I fuck myself quite often, you see. I know the rules of 4chan, or at least I think I do. And if I get banned, w/e it's a bloody private server, mostly made up of Americans, soooo 0 fucks. C: Just put that there as a formality.
>>135786320
Is this a birth of a new Mady I Green?
>>135786279
No, I said I played Runes of Magic and played OSRS. Get your facts right m8 and eat my ass.
Getting some post-za exercise with my main men
check out that clench!
Holy shit can you attentionwhore any harder
>>135786320
>mems
you fucked up your trip fresh buddy
>>135786942
t. dune
Next up you guys should head to a black area on the south side and wave your pizza and creatine around until you get shot.
>>135787095
>you fucked up your trip fresh buddy
fuq u m8 mem is the dankest of mems
>>135779467
delete this
Ayy
>>135779467
but cutetorture doesn't need a strap on.
Here's your picture, mango.
>>135790037
WHAT THE
>>135790037
what did he mean by this?
>>135790037
>>135790037
>dat baby spoon amount
>>135790037
>>135790037
How long until it hatches Odel?
>>135791617
It will never hatch Odel because Odel is not inside it.
>>135791617
I told him to surround an egg I gave him with birds nests and a better server will hatch and he actually did it. The mad man.
>Second Shoah, Animosity, Lorelei, Fresh have all been seen individually "pking" at mage bank
>They never fight eachother despite this
What gives? Why are all a bunch of carebears?
anyone else miss ironic man
>>135792612
>miss
Hi Ironic Man
>>135792612
kinda desu senpai
>you will never meme on ironic man at the entrance to waterbirth while you wait for his run energy to refill
Trading any of these fine items or cash for a guthan's platebody!
Pm Boopboopboop, I promise not to belligerently solicit friendship or sexual favors from anyone tonight!
>>135794214
>Pm Boopboopboop, I promise not to belligerently solicit friendship or sexual favors from anyone tonight!
what did she mean by this?
>>135794945
>she
>>135792612
no, him leaving was a hallmark of season 5 desu. The game is actually fun to play now
how much are tickets to these kinds of things lad
Why am I the only one to get muted for gayposting :C
>>135796646
You should be killed, this christian server doesn't accept sodomy.
>>135796646
Latents muting people for "spamming" my buy/sell msgs.
Powertrip harder pls.
>>135797539
>get muted
>evade mute
>complain
Selling nest eggs 2k ea.
>>135797539
This is what happens when you let a sociopath be a mod.
/v/scape I weep for thee.
gas all gays
gas all weebs
>>135798404
gas all ironic christians and gas all degenerate NEETs too
>>135797539I'm not even the one doing it.
>>135798748
prove it then?
Seeing as you set yell to staff only about a week ago and spewed bible verses, its hard to think its anyone else.
>>135800108
Exactly. So if I did do it, why would I deny it? You're lucky it wasn't me because it would have been much longer.
>>135798748
>>135800587
>vocally anti-gay religious extremist
>"i-it wasnt me guys"
no just fuck off
Update will purge all sodomites.
>>135800587
>beats around the bush
>No proof
Right on.
>>135801234
B^D
Playing with you guys has made me curious about modern Runescape. Is it just this with more content or is it a WoW clone like every other MMO these days?
>>135802387
I'm a Nathan
>>135802387
It's worse than current WoW.
If you don't have a red 99 you'rea normie and need to leave
>>135748737
>tfw finally got an iron defender after 366 cyclops kills
no way I'm going to bother getting to rune. in realscape that's how many kills it'd take to get them all
>>135802676
hi wiggins
update on /TeamChicago/
the succ has been aquired
>>135802701
they just fixed the droprates
>>135802676
>smithing
>red
>>135802918
hi thebigdong
>>135802676
>smithing
>not meme
>>135802749
derek has nice arms
WTB Law runes PM me w/ offers
>>135802729
>thinking I care about difficulty of skills enough to post something like this
please
>>135802918
>>135803175
Fuck off trannies, it's easily the second hardest skill after Runecrafting
>>135803460
Herb > RC >the rest/ who cares
>>135803460
>go on GE
>buy ores
>hard
k kid
>Blasphemous homos can't handle someone quoting the Bible
Are you possessed?
>>135803807
bobster and odel are working on one, deal w/ it pleb
>>135803516
Herb is a fuck ton easier than RC
>>135805028
>>135805121
hes right u know
>>135805417
>>135805604
>plant some seeds
>pray they don't die while you wait 80 minutes
>gather secondaries in that time
>if you're a high level, 350xp per herb let's say you got 28
>clickclickclickclickclick
>9800 xp
>mine an inventory of pess
>tp to edgeville
>abyss to law altar
>takes a minute and a half
>repeat 10 times for the same amount of experience
>>135806028
I've downloaded the launcher and the main thing.
It says it's a .jar file
What do?
I'm a little sick of the new runescape and I just found this
>>135806289
Do you have java installed? Open it with that.
Tfw grind withdrawals
>>135807924
Hi ironic man
>>135800108
I demand source on that crop
>thread trying to archive again
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>135812894
>Kickass beard
>Wanting glasses
Where's the trapposting?
BASED fucking fresh coming in and saving the day with an antipoison
he heard the call and delivered
thank u based fresh
nice grammar retards
>>135817230
The i is silent
Can you turn off global?
>>135817230
It's the default examine, anon.
Who the fuck are these guys that I met at the bar with Basedwiggins?
>>135817336
Yes. Global tab -> Off
>>135817534
god bless
>>135817603
thanks
right
friggin
wiggin
When is a skill level considered high enough to make money? I think I'm starting to get decently far into crafting and I want to start making some dollars.
>>135818000
level 99 flax picking for maximum gainzdecent combat = good money gains
>>135817971
Do you guys literally call him Wiggins in person
Isn't there a free chaos rune in the Wilderness I can pick up so I can get free runes? I only can think about the Body runes, black knight fortress and cosmic spawns
>>135817534
>>135817971
Who is yellow underwear?
>>135818275
hypercrisis
>>135818227
idk what else we would call him you fucking sperg
>>135818368
Uh, his name? Andrew.
>>135818227
https://youtu.be/qul-rDvU9QI?t=2m32s
Reminder a movie scene predicted the future.
>>135818410
no, wiggins just feels right
>>135818410
I think he goes by Ender though.
if you want a cum tribute please email to [email protected]
I just realized, we're like the glory hole of /vg/.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrbmW6HN1Rw
This is both my inventory and my bank. Although it looks like a massive unorganized mess, each item in certain orders correspond to certain quests/activities I plan on/need to do. Blogposting aside, i mainly needed a place to put this picture so i could save it to my phone, enjoy.
#whoa
Dude 69 lmao!!!! xD
bump
>>135825648
In light of Vomir returning I guess I could post this
>>135823201
right friggin on josh
>>135748737
nth for exploits
>>135825648
Pls tootie batootie
Buying raw karambwan 75k, pm Carl
>>135828173
Sold.
Streaming that film, since I am so great.
putlocker(dot)is/watch-kung-pow-enter-the-fist-online-free-putlocker(dot)html
when mango streaming again?
>[PERIOD]
What did they mean by this?
inb4 another dead thread
>>135774193
>runescape
>difficult
its the little things
>>135835673
He meant that these were the only changes in the patch, and that there were no hidden updates added in. Allegedly.
>>135841463
Chinchompa powered barber's pole. Hunter confirmed.
>disconnected at 35hp collecting black dragonhide
>somehow still alive
t-thanks latent
>>135842421
Don't thank me thank rng
are there any other good private servers out there?
>>135851030
No, not with the same amount of content and devs refusing to cut corners.
bump of life
WTB Law Runes PM me offers
>>135823201
gz now go buy yourself some nuggies!!!
>>135855501
wtb autistic debate over inconsequential detail.
ded game
::rnpc when
>tfw vscape has a growing community.
>>135868342
can confirm
selling this garbage pm offers
>>135869375
Pc on 665 kebabs
>>135869375
name?
>>135869726
Snake
>>135868734
Kind of funny how we used to sit at around 16 people during the weekend.
Here's the current Castle Wars roster. 3 spots are available, but more will be open if there's enough interest!
>Team Saradomin
-Implyingains
-Spear
-Animosity
-Lorelei
-
>Team Zamorak
-Philos Fyesh
-Mosley
-Nacs
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The teams are subject to change however, depending on who joins, or if someone quits.
See >>135755939 for all current event details
>>135874307
Quick update, Snake has been added to team Zamorak.
2 spots are still open, and more will be added if there is enough interest!
>>135874307
>>135876451
As if you guys don't hate me enough, another update.
Qkumber has joined Team Saradomin. I'm thinking of switching Animosity with Philos, but we'll see.
1 spot left! Join soon so you don't miss out! More spots will open, but only if there's enough interest!
(Also, I noticed I was using the wrong trip. I just fixed it. It's still me, you guys)
who /cute/ here?
