Cataclysm zones are now as old as vanilla zones were when Cataclysm came out.
>>345323608
Read that as "Reddit Bridge"
>>345323608
Mmmm, really makes you think.
yes this game is old a fuck and yet never received a sequel
Cataclysm leveling is much better than vanilla leveling.
>time is linear
wow holy shit I'm gonna make a sad frog post about this on Reddit can anyone hook me up with the melty clock sad frog
But Cataclysm zones are still worse than Vanilla zones ever were.
The cata zone changes are the main reason why I'll never go back to the game, ruined it.
>>345323798
Gonna go with this guy. IN vanilla, you could show up in any settlement and immediately starting doing quests for the Horde/Alliance.
Now everything is on rails and needs to be unlocked in one way or another.
My main problem with Cataclysm zone change is that now when you're doing quests you only have 3-4 quests going at a time. Vanilla zones were satisfying because sometimes you could pick up over a dozen quests, go out into the wild for a few hours, then come back and reap all the rewards at once.
I left after the first expansion, dont remember the name now.
What did i miss?
was it good?
>>345324012
I'll agree in that vanilla zones were more interesting in some ways, and had better atmosphere. But the questing is so much better.
After playing on Nostalrius, I was reminded of all the problems vanilla had. Like having to walk the entire length of Duskwood 4-5 times for that Jitters quest line. Or the Stonewatch quests in Redridge which were like 5 levels higher in difficulty than the zone is intended for, and the orc captains on 15-20 minute respawn timers. Or the four goblin parts on the island in the middle of Loch Modan that could only be looted by one player at a time, and had 5 minute respawns, so people literally crowd around the spawn points and have a click race to pick it up. And I could go on.
None of that is a matter of being more "difficult." Vanilla really was just full of so much bullshit.
>>345323798New 1k Needles is comfy as fuck
>>345323798
its still pretty amazing flying over the Thousand Needles desu
only real thing in the game with such large scale
>>345324891
fite me 1v1
>>345324679
Wrath of the Lich king was the following expansion and it saw the highest player base in WoW history
Basically what you missed is..
>Match making tool for players to find instance groups
>Character movement based skills added, such as pulling enemies to you or pulling allies out of fire.
>Mog system that lets you set the appearance of your character using existing gear assets.
>Several class overhauls. Some for the better, some for the worse
>Writing that makes no sense and shits all over the horde
>A bunch of cry babies who think Vanilla was gods gift to man.
>Pokemon style pet battling system for critters
Thats pretty much it.
>>345325154
You forgot the complete revamp to how talents work.
>>345324798
Shh
The bullshit is what brought people together instead of having a button to instantly teleport you everywhere to a dungeon, raid, or battleground.
It was more social!
Also I remember in vanilla I was chilling in Darkshire watching from the sidelines as a Horde and Alliance raid were duking it out
>>345324891
Flooding Thousand Needles was a crime against humanity.
>>345325261
Eh old talent system will be on your artifact weapons in legion so its a moot point
>>345325468
Not really, artifcacts you fill up completely over time, you can't fill up all 3 talent trees in vanilla/TBC
>Cataclysm revamp
>Destroyed zones filled with rushed On rails questing that's essentially 9gag tier memes and fanfiction lore that would make any self respecting oldfag throw up
>>345323797
>purposely attributing 4chan memes to reddit so you can mock them on 4chan
Just leave please
>>345325539
Mechanically its the same thing. You pick a bunch of 0.02% increases over the leveling process until you get one of maybe 3 things that actually does anything useful.
>>345324798
No, Mr Kosak, we aren't buying it.
>>345325107
It won't be 1v1, scum.
>>345323706
>You will never receive a MSN nudge again
>>345325729
>mfw post-cata Westfall
One of my favorite questlines reduced to a fucking CSI parody.
>>345325860
>Implying I ever got any.
>>345325729
This is what bothers me the most about those zones, the godawful humour that completely detracts from the atmosphere of the zones and makes everything a joke. What's weird is that Cata also had some really good questing that generally speaking took itself seriously (Gilneas and Vash'jir) but they get overlooked since people remember the cringey shit in most of the revamped zones and in Uldum.
Not to mention that having Twilights Hammer enemies in damn near every single fucking zone got really boring, just like Orcs did in WoD.
>>345325912
>Redridge is rambo now
I just want my constantly fucked warzone filled with gnolls, orcs and ganking horde back.
>>345326028
Dave Kosak. He's not the sole perpetrator but he's the main driving force behind the retarded changes. Can't say I was a fan of Gilneas, or worgen though. The naga were pretty top notch however!
>>345325729
>mfw those fucking badlands quests
what the FUCK were they thinking
>>345323797
>mentioning reddit
You have to go back
>>345326195
I feel you. Redridge was also one of my favorite zones. I remember killing Yowler with a couple guildmates, now you can just faceroll everything in the zone.
>>345325912
>>345326195
>>345326363
That's what happens when they spread the writing/questing staff too thin, they run out of ideas and have to rely on pop culture for content. The zones really suffered for it, but I think they realised they fucked up with it since it hasn't really happened since.
>>345326323
You don't have to be a fan of it to recognise that it's not all outdated memes and references and actually attempts to provide a consistent experience. Gilneas is about a people losing their homeland, Vash'jir is about being stranded in a strange place and making do with what you have. They both stick to that and evolve as they go along without constantly reverting back to stupid shit. Some other zones in Cata kinda do the same but it's been a while since I've done them, and then there's obviously Uldum.
>>345323798
>Azshara
Pre-patch in two days cunts
who hype
>>345323798
>>345324012
I just started playing Wow, what's so bad about the Cataclysm zones? I'm currently leveling a blood elf Paladin and I'm having way more fun in zones like Hillsbrad Foothills and Thousand Needles than Eversong Woods and Ghostlands. I also tried out a Goblin Rogue and the beginning areas for the Goblin are waaaaay more fun and interesting than for Blood Elf.
>>345326028
>the godawful humour that completely detracts from the atmosphere of the zones and makes everything a joke
This is what baffles me most about Cata. I ran through Blackwing Descent the other day, and ignoring how stupid Nefarian's resurrection already was, Nefarian's lines were a shocking reminder of just how awful the writing was in cata. It wasn't enough for Blizz to write a shit story, but the villains had to crack "silly" jokes and break the fourth wall too.
>>345326694
I get you Anon but I'm just too salty about how the game has been handled, its been bastardized beyond repair for me.
>>345324798
>But the questing is so much better.
Until you've done it once before, then it becomes just as tedious as before, but with zero difficulty.
>tfw you will never ever get a TES-esque rpg set in the Warcraft universe
>You'll never break into Hyjal again and shit yourself exploring such a vast empty unfinished zone
Imagine if Classic was intact.
Imagine if Blizzard liked fun.
Imagine.
>>345326918
post the full pic pls
Remember to hug your local bird!
>>345327059
Are you from the general on /vg/? This sounds like some of the fucking dumb shit they would post.
>>345326879
Why did they have to ruin the way Furion looked.... Why did they ruin everything?
did you know that the pyramids were as old to the romans, as the romans are to us
>>345326828
If you look at the Cata patch content they seemed to dial that back, they seemed to have realised how shit it actually ended up looking and someone put a stop to it.
The game isn't humourless, but what we've gotten since then isn't Borderlands-tier stupidity like that "Slayer of Useless Incompetent Minions" title you get in BWD.
>>345327146I tought I was in /vg/
>>345326918
My understanding is the idiots auctualy deleted all the old world.
>>345326828
Nothing really wrong with Nefarians "resurrection" as he never really died to begin with. Defeating and looting a boss doesn't mean they're dead in canon.
>>345325748
You're a genuine retard.
>Log into Vanilla server
>Most level 60s are AFK on their mount waiting for their PVP queue or waiting for their weekly raid to reset or guild to get on to raid
>trade chat full of memes like anal thunderfury and chuck norris
>tryhards outside of Orgrimmar or Stormwind who duel people with broken 1v1 specs
>world PVP are just gankfests where skill doesn't matter when someone higher level or geared than you outplays you
>gold spammers spelling out their RMT website with their dead bodies near the auction house
Vanilla was so much better guys
>>345324228
This isn't true at all, as someone coming from FF14 to WOW there's far far fewer rails. There's no Main Story Quest that holds your hand through every area in the game and instead you can just show up in an area that suitable for your level and start questing without needing to unlock anything. I just wish it was a little more clear how to get to certain places. The adventure guide tried to send me from the Hillsbrad Foothills to the Hinterlands and I died the instant I walked into the Alterac Mountains. Then it tried to send me to Desolace and I spent forever trying to get there from Orgrimmar without having ever been to Kalimdor before.
>>345327360
Pandaria managed to have pretty good humor. I don't know how intentional it was though, since most of it was in the voiceacting.
But yeah, Cata was a nightmare. It's what happens when you hire a webcomic writer to design things for you, I guess.
>>345326818
fuck you nigger Eversong Woods and Ghostlands are the best zones in the game
if you don't like them you're the reason the game is dying
>>345323608
THE PYRAMIDS WERE AS OLD TO THE ROMANS WHEN THEY DISCOVERED THEM AS THE ROMANS ARE TO US
>>345326763
I hated how they turned that area into a goblin slum, even if it was devoid of content before.
>>345327616
>mfw WoD was fairly serious with little humor
>Except for the major lore figure of the expansion being an autist
>>345327508
Vanilla private servers have an uncanny ability to attract autists and tryhards who thrive in that environment.
>>345327648
Nice bait
>>345326764
No one with any self respect plays this game anymore.
>>345327508
b-b-b-b-but MUH NOSTALGIA
DELETE THIS
>>345326818
I'll try to hit some of the main points without writing a wall of text out of my opinion.
>old quests were much more difficult, which also facilitated group play
>levelling was slower, but the game was less focused on end-game. Now it's just a race to level cap because that's where everyone else is
>old quests had much better writing
>1-60 revamp destroyed the narrative timeline
>geography was changed, sometimes ruining the key traits zones were known for (Desolace has more lush areas now, Barrens isn't one big expansive area, 1k Needles lost the salt flats, the whole LOCH in Loch Modan, etc.)
>many things loved by long time players were lost, never to be experienced again
>>345327875
nice meme
>>345327836
if he doesn't grow a beard in legion i'm going to kill myself
>>345327552
Hopefully they look into migrating some of the dynamic leveling tech in the Legion zones to the current "old world" zones. So you can have a much broader selection of places to go without being stuck with a choice of 3 zones at each tip of the world to level in. Imagine being able to just walk into the next zone along after finishing the current one, at whatever level you wanted?
>>345326828
That whole thing is made to be tounge in cheek anon. That's why it's like Saturday morning cartoon villain lair, complete with monologue and incompetent minions that lament that fact along with the "big bad".
Bad example of that would be Tol Barad. That bitch who casts that 100k a tick thing on you keeps yammering about raiders raiding her and how she hates them, while overall the raid doesn't give you any indication that it's made to be tounge in cheek or anything like a parody.
>>345327971
>Imagine being able to just walk into the next zone along after finishing the current one, at whatever level you wanted?
What would take some level scaling or phasing shit.
>>345327552
That's because FF14 (ARR not 4.0) used modern WoW for the basis for its design and went from there. WoW is still heavily linearized.
>>345327405
>Defeating and looting a boss doesn't mean they're dead
Which is why to this day you can still kill Nefarian in BWL and fucking decapitate him and bring his head back to Stormwind.
But then again I shouldn't expect less form Blizzard.
>Blackwing Lair was merely a setback!
>>345328084
Which is exactly what the new Legion zones have. You can pick and chose where to level and everything will scale accordingly, even with multiple people of varying levels fighting the same mob
>>345328258
I saw some "instance" of that in FFXIV and it wasn't so bad. But that was only downscaling, I don't think the game would ever upscale you.
That would also be weird for the gear rewards in quests. Surely they could have that scale as well, but it kind of kills what I like about the game.
>>345323798
The only thing they did right was that they mostly left Winterspring alone.
They knew they couldn't match perfection.
>>345328091
WOW may be more linear now than it used to be, I dunno. But there's always at least 3 different zones you can go to at any level and start questing there no problem. In FF14 once you leave your starting city you get railroaded on to a MSQ that takes you to every single zone and dungeon which is laid out in a linear progression and you have to do every single side quest if you want to maintain level parity. Even then there's still some zones where you have to go grind FATES or dungeons in order to catch up in level and unlock the quests in the next tier of MSQ. You may think WOW is linear, but it feels incredibly open in comparison to FF14.
>>345327971
This would be cool, but they'd probably have to redo all the quests from the ground up.
>>345328675
And yet they ruined Ashenvale beyond all recognition Why was Ashenvale not spared? :(
>>345327836
>FOR THE AZEROTH
I hate that I always laugh when I see this.
>>345327508
>Log into retail server
>Most level 90s are AFK in their garrisons waiting for their PVP queue or waiting for their weekly raid to reset or guild to get on to raid
>trade chat full of memes like anal thunderfury
>tryhards outside of garrisons who duel people with broken 1v1 specs
>world PVP are just gankfests where skill doesn't matter when someone is a higher level or in full pvp resilience gear gank people in pve gear
>gold spammers spelling out their RMT website with their dead bodies near the auction house
Retail is so much better guys
>>345327836
At least he felt like that was just his personality rather than him spouting shit like going #YOLO during the WoD starter quests when he blows up the dam.
>>345323798
visually, catazeroth is fucking diarrhea, but in terms of gameplay vanilla quests are almost indefensible.
>>345328860
The rest of this is true but I actually haven't seen gold spammers or corpse-signers in years. Blizzard cracked down pretty hard on that a while back and now you can legally buy gold from Blizzard so the Chinese gold market took a huge hit.
>>345328976
Yeah. Khagdar was an annoying character done right.
>>345328258
Legion scaling wouldn't work in the old zones though, how legion scaling works is it takes the mob and puts it at the average level between the players fighting it. The reason it works is because a lv90 player and a lv100 player can both fight the lv95 mob just fine.
If a 60 fought a lv30 mob with a level 1 the level 1 would be decimated.
>>345327508
I'm going to explain to you why Vanilla was better.
For 2003-4, that world was massive.
The quests weren't put in front of you to do, you had to go explore to find quests. You might be underleveled by the time you finished a questline in a zone.
So it pushed you to go to other zones in different racial regions or the next continent to continue questing.
There was no instant port system. You didn't get all the flight paths right away.
You were forced to have your own path of success.
Grouping up to do Elite Quests was generally done with friends.
Even at that the Dungeon System was all by personal request.
My first dungeon wasn't even through the LFG channels, it was by me exploring the Horde Territories at level 45 and coming across a group of alliance looking for one more DPS for SM.
They ended up being my good friends up until Cataclysm.
The Adventure is gone.
It's not because of casualization, it's not just because the game is so simplified.
They took out the aspect of self-determination.
Even on your own personal story they fucked up and made the Player Character (THE HERO). It use to be you had no real place in the story, the story was a side show. So even in the aspect of story, the game was self-determined.
Random raids on Horde towns because you were bored.
Harassing people in STV
Fucking around just because you could. You could probably find something interesting that would lead you on the beginning of hunting down rare gear just by accidently finding an area.
All gone. The game sucks completely right now because of these aspects.
And they refuse to fucking listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tm4Pj6QM8s
>>345327909
These all sounds like the complaints FFXI players have about ARR.
>>345326879
good. TES is shit
>>345329230
This.
All these "improvements" that children cried for just made the game less interesting.
The easier you make fast travel, the less massive does the world feel.
>>345323608
What with this weirdass leather road under the bridge?
>>345326818
>mobs were stronger and often overtuned (such as the infamous Deffias Pillager) encouraging group play while leveling
>way more group quests that required players to group
>much harder to gear characters, reducing the ability of player to easily solo content
>Old Zones focused more on environments and fitting quests to zones. Zone design felt more natural and less formulaic
In general, Vanilla zones and quests felt more natural and expansive, with quest chains leading players all over the zones. In a lot of ways, this was far more tedious than post-cata, yet it allowed for cool and memorable shit (like Stitches) and in my opinion gave the world a better atmosphere. Furthermore, the general class and mob design, along with lack of gear, basically forced players to interact if they wanted to get anywhere with speed. Vanilla wow's leveling experience was far more social than post-cata because of this.
Which isn't to say Vanilla didnt have a lot of issues. The game could be absolute ass if you couldn't find a group, overpopulated zones were hell when trying to tag specific mobs, there were huge content droughts at certain level brackets, and many zones were devoid of content. Still, at the end of the day I preferred Vanilla's world over Cataclysms
>>345327508
>>345328860
So what's the major difference between vanilla and current retail at their core game design?
>>345329506
Basically yeah. There's no reason to ever actually interact with people now. You push a button and you're instantly where you wanna go and now things that took a few hours take ten minutes. MMOs need that kind of tedious quality to them to help foster player interaction and build immersion. I haven't felt immersed in the world for years now.
>>345329230
Everquest's game world was bigger than Vanilla WoW
Questhelper addon was released and defeated this purpose
You could shout in chat for help in a group quest, you didn't need friends just random people.
There was never an adventure in WoW unless you were completely new to MMOs or you actually went out of your way to roleplay in the game.
please don't let me get back int othis game
Did people actually miss the leveling experience in Vanilla/TBC WoW?
What was so exciting about grinding boar meat for some NPC or grinding the same dungeon multiple times for a CHANCE to get a piece of gear?
Can some oldfag WoW player please help me understand why people praised this type of game design so much?
>>345328487
FF14 downscales your character level for FATES and dungeons, but it doesn't alter any of the content to fit to your character's progression. They've come up with some interesting methods to encourage players at level cap to redo old content (like the daily dungeon roulette or the relic quests that require you to grind fates) so that new players have people to do content with and so they downscale your level so that content is still sorta challenging for new players.
>>345329230
vanilla servers are fucking ass nowadays compared to modern wow and I'm glad those days are gone.
The only people who still play vanilla still are the ones who have some superiority complex over knowing every smalld etail about an old game, and those who never experienced vanilla
Vanilla is gone and its for the better , I never want to do a dungeon without group finder again
>>345329724
Basically;
>vanilla
>you wanna run deadmines? hit up zone chat, coordinate with other players, get to the stone, summon everyone, pray to god some tweeker kid didn't get impatient and leave before you started
>retail
>you wanna run Deadmines? press this button. instantly teleported to the dungeon. no one talks. everyone just does their job and goes back to whatever they were doing before
Both philosophies have their merits in some ways, but imo social interaction is the entire point of MMOs and the current game feels very soulless after it was removed in favor of instant gratification.
>>345330083
because they are masochists who want to be hipsters over their nostalgia
>>345330083
>Did people actually miss the leveling experience in Vanilla/TBC WoW?
I miss the vanilla quests but BC questing was always total ass. I could never understand why people said BC quests were an improvement.
>>345329506
I'd like to add to my rant.
I complained about the lack of adventure in leveling, mainly. But even the end game forced you to explore.
If you played the game mainly blind, you'd learn about your experience and how to improve your character by word of mouth.
People were much more social in the end game. Debating on Trade Chat about better gear, lead to people discovering new ways to better their own character.
Guilds were communities, people knew eachother on a much more personal level.
To even raid you had to be in a guild.
Friendships in the game actually meant something.
It wasn't like "Hey, you're a good damage. You're my friend now"
It was developed by socializing with these people. There were things they knew that you didn't, and things you knew that they didn't. Past that, personal interests such as music, movies, other games were also the higher bond in the in-game friendship.
You were pushed to make friends, not be the lonely grinder.
The aspect of community is missing.
The Lonely Grinder is basically manditory, not even optional.
The game was meant to be accessed by those who were openly social.
So again. Blizzard killed their own formula of success and question why.
They can't save WoW. If they want to stay in the SUCCESSFUL MMO market, they need to start from scratch.
>pic is the only other World of Warcraft picture in my folder. Sorry.
>>345329714
Unfortunately, you can't have a questing system that's focused on group play when the majority of players are at level cap. It makes it much more difficult for new players to progress through content than it was for people who started playing at launch.
>teased for years about what was behind the gate in Tanaris
>when we finally get to access Uldum 90% of the zone is devoted to an Indiana Jones spoof
>>345329724
>>345330183
>vanilla
>spend longer making the group than doing the dungeon
>retail
>spend longer waiting for the group finder to pop than doing the dungeon
The difference is that vanilla just plain took longer to do anything so you tended to socialise to pass the time.
>>345330154
faggot
>>345330154
>cucking yourself
Faggot
>>345330183
>vanilla
>LFG deadmines i'm a mage
>get invited to group after spamming for 5 minutes
>say hi
>"hello o/"
>get summoned to the instance
>we go inside
>nobody says anything for the next 10 mins
>"wait I gotta drink for mana" "okay"
>continue going on with the dungeon with minor stops for HP/Mana
>beat the dungeon
>"thanks ^^"
>leave group
>retail
>press queue button
>instantly teleported to dungeon
>say hi
>"hey"
>nobody says anything for the next 10 mins
>"brb"
>continue going on with the dungeon
>"okay back"
>beat the dungeon
>"ty ^_^"
>leave group
it's literally the same shit
>>345329938
Bigger isn't better, you don't have to use quest helper, and sometimes those random people became friends.
I'd argue the reason that I loved WoW so much from the beginning was because it was Warcraft. I loved Warcraft 3 and so WoW's game world had that perfect mix of new and familiar.
>>345330504
>implying I find joy fucking around in trade chat for 2 hours looking for a random to join a group just for him to be total ass and now I have to repeat the process
this is canceled out by being in a guild, which if you are in one with friends literally nothing has changed for you since vanilla anyway
>>345330183
More like.
>vanilla
>You wannt run deadmines? Spam LFG 1 DPS for at least 2h and you might find a group. When you finally find this group everyone needs to get there and that will take around 1h. Then you will run the dungeon without saying a word to the group.
I don't know why people keep memeing about that vanilla was somewhat more social just because it forced you to spam the general chat for hours.
>>345329938
>There was never an adventure in WoW unless you were completely new to MMOs
Literally 90% of the player base at the time.
>>345330294
BC was in "improvement" in that it was hard to run out of quests to do.
post youir favourite city
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEzjtH4s_E
>>345330309
>The aspect of community is missing.
While this is completely true, it's not fair to put all the blame on Blizzard for this. If you look at video games as a whole, there has been a massive change in the behavior of the online gaming "community" over the last 8 years or so. This is partly why every other MMO these days also has an automatic group finder. A lot of new FPS games have matchmaking rather than a server browser. The people playing these games have changed, and Blizzard just caved in to this new crowd.
>>345330154
Faggot.
>>345329974
You mean you'll pay for a subscription, log in and then stand around in your garrison because there is nothing else to do. The game is also dying in terms of population.
Go buy a half decent game with that money instead,
>>345330393
>The difference is that vanilla just plain took longer to do anything so you tended to socialise to pass the time.
Which is what makes MMOs unique, isn't it?
>be on Nostalrius
>running RFK
>decide to ambush horde at the elevator to 1k needles while we wait for the last two members of our group to arrive
>end up having low level group world pvp
>had more fun waiting for the dungeon to start than in the actual dungeon
Vanilla took a lot more time to do anything, but it wasn't all tedious grinding.
>>345329230
yeah vanilla wow is hardy perfect and easily the most unbalanced wow, blizzard made vast improvments to the game, but they took it into the wrong direction
>>345330747
Ironforge. Always Ironforge.
>tfw seeing someone in full purps in vanilla IF and you knew right away the guy was a fucking badass
>tfw lusting over those stats more than you've ever lusted over women
>>345330380
Yeah. Even by TBC, players were too spread out and it was difficult to form groups for group content like instances or outdoor elite zones especially in vanilla areas.
>>345330585
You'd also share quests in vanilla but yeah if you didn't have someone that's really social people would usually be quiet.
The urge to resub is rising, help me friends
>>345330590
While bigger isn't better, EQ had a lot more content than WoW did and actually emphasized socializing a lot more than WoWs forced group quests/instances. You couldn't even make it to the next town in Everquest without having a group to escort you there, that's how deadly the world was. In WoW you can just buy a mage portal or turn off your PVP flag and walk the roads.
You didn't have to use quest helper, but people in-game expected you to use it. During Vanilla it was the #1 most downloaded addon of all time. It got to the point where people were too lazy to explain quests and just told you to refer to thottbot or questhelper.
I understand that WoW was many peoples first MMO but it really didn't do a lot of things right.
>>345331271
It will be fun for max 1day and then you realize that you just spent a month sub playing a game with nothing to do.
At least wait until Legion if you're going to try it again
>>345331271
Wait two days for the legion expansion patch
>>345331271
>"The itch tingles, but never scratch"
>>345331271
Why the fuck would you resub now? To do some shitty pre-expansion event with shitty pre-expansion rewards with shitty-pre expansion imbalance? Then when you've done that you can sit around afk in your Garrison for the next 7 days and 23 hours until the event switches to the next shitty stage.
>>345330380
I guess retail wow is so bloated with leveling content from prior expansions, streamlining it as much as possible is the best of bad options.
>>345327552
You don't go to Alterac when going to Hinterlands from Hillsbrad. There's a path north of Durnholde Keep.
>>345325154
>and it saw the highest player base in WoW history
Yeah, because BC was fucking amazing, so all the casuals heard "oh shit WoW is growing even more with another awesome expansion?", went out there alot and bought it. Has nothing to do with WotlK.
>>345331104
>Ironforge during Winter Veil
>>345331443
This is why they now include level boosts for free with new expansions, so people can skip straight to the new content with one character.
>>345331513
The game peaked about halfway through Wrath I think.
>>345331152
Yep. Blizz had to take a giant nerf bat to most of those group quests, reducing them in scale to 2-3 man content to accommodate the newer distribution of players.
I think WoW was pretty much unavoidably fucked in the long term. While I think certain things could have been avoided, it was already apparent during early Vanilla that WoW was primarily an end game instanced content focused MMO. Since the expansion packs focused on a new level cap, it was inevitable that the leveling process was going to get fucked to accommodate the ever growing gap between starting a character and reaching "the proper game"
>>345330747
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyQiK8cGCHw
>>345331768
All Themepark MMOs follow this unevitable end. The only way solve this is to move away from the vertical progression system and use a more horizontal progression system akin to PSOBB or FFXI.
>>345331335
>You didn't have to use quest helper, but people in-game expected you to use it.
I have no recollection of this.
>You couldn't even make it to the next town in Everquest without having a group to escort you there, that's how deadly the world was.
I'd definitely agree that WoW was more "tame" than prior MMOs. That might have been the reason why it succeeded in the first place. It was casual enough, relatively speaking, to draw in people who would otherwise not be playing this type of game.
Really, I'd equate your fondness for Everquest and my fondness to WoW to how people feel about Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Namely, whichever one you played first was your favorite because it set the standard.
>>345331271
the best thing about playing Nostalrius is that it made me realize just how fucked WoW is. Not just current Retail, but all of it. Vanilla was a fun but deeply flawed experience, and every expansion since has fixed some aspect of it while ruining another. WoD + Nostalrius has freed me from the sub withdrawal.
>>345323757
>Cataclysm leveling is much faster than vanilla leveling.
ftfy. Levelling alone vs with hundreds of players in your zone alone. Tough choice.
>>345331768
This is true. Unfortunately they kinda painted themselves into a corner as far as leveling and game content goes and it'll probably get hit with another overhaul within the next year or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxEUKOwKnpU
What does this song make you think of, anon?
>>345332051
I still wish it hadn't died. Easily the most fun I've had with a videogame in years.
A serious question here, is Blizzard intentionally trying to ruin WoW? I find it hard to believe that a game company that's been working with games for so long can basically just ignore one of the most sub based games losing over half of their subs. I mean they must realize that WoD was a total disaster and most of their design choices didn't work and was shit, and despite that they do the same shit with Legion.
And why do they not actually put a little effort on the game? You can't seriously have a sub based MMO and not put out content for 12months. If they actually did make some content now and then more players would be playing and they would make a higher profit. I really don't get Blizzard, are they just incompetent,lazy or do they actually want to kill WoW?
It does not take a genius to see that Blizzard can do a lot of stuff to get a lot of more players back.
>>345332119
Sunken Temple, Dustwallow Marsh
>>345331768
>I think WoW was pretty much unavoidably fucked in the long term. While I think certain things could have been avoided, it was already apparent during early Vanilla that WoW was primarily an end game instanced content focused MMO.
I feel like a massive faggot, but I always enjoyed the leveling the most. For the first few expansions, anyway.
>>345332224
I've picked back up again on Kronos, near equal, just less populated.
>>345332246
Hearthstone has made a shitload of money with significantly less cost put into it, that probably changed a lot within the higher ups at the company.
>>345332246
WoW has and always been a cash cow for Blizzard. They don't need to put effort into something that is still raking in million of dollars each month despite being on the market for 12 fucking years.
>>345332119
a confused dwarf, wondering what happened to all these night elves
>>345331529
That's a heartwarming webm right there.
>>345332360
No, I enjoyed it the most too. Adventuring in the world of Warcraft is what brought me to the game, and the leveling process best encapsulated that. I still enjoyed instances, but they were at their best when they came as the climax of a zone's (or multiple zones') story and quests
>>345330385
>hating on Uldum
kill yourself nigga
>>345332426
But they could make a even bigger profit it they just put a little more effort in the game.
It's sad to see that this is the new trend for video game companies like Blizzard and Valve, despite them having a super popular game they nearly ignore it because people play it but if they actually would put a little more effort even more people would play it and they would make more cash. It's also so insulting to the players playing the game.
>>345332390
Is there an RP community on Kronos Horde side? Pre-blood elf Horde RP was comfy as fuck.
>>345332702
Ah not sure, I'm sure there's a guild dedicated to it, though I can't answer that, sorry fella
>>345332119
running from crocodiles and killing sludges in the wetlands
>>345332360
I never understood the appeal of vanilla leveling then and now. All you did was grind solo kill X, collect Y quests until you eventually hit instance quests (deadmines) or group quests (hogger).
A lot of people on /v/ seems to say that leveling in Vanilla was half the experience, but I recall most of everyone in vanilla/TBC back in the day wanting to skip the leveling so they can actually get to the "hard" content. I daily saw people speedrun/powerlevel through SM cath to get fast EXP, I saw mages just gathering mobs in their level appropriate zones and blizzard them all down because it was better EXP than just running around doing turn in quests, there were also people out there who were also selling level 60 WoW accounts in-game they botted just so people can skip the grind and get to the "real" game.
>>345330747
It's a shame that it was so out of the way and underpopulated.
I feel like the night elf zones have aged the best as far as vanilla zones go.
>>345332664
The zone itself is great, the quest content being devoted to shoving in as many Indiana Jones references as is humanly possible detracted from the experience. It could've been amazing, but they fucked it up.
>>345332664
Uldum would've been miles better if it didn't rely on that (not)Indiana Jones for a good chunk of the plot. It would've been Storm Peaks-tier otherwise.
>>345332679
This isn't a Blizzard/Valve exclusive thing, this is EVERY AAA game developer. Money comes first, making a good product comes second.
>>345326860
>but with zero difficulty.
This is a good thing
Leveling is the most pointless part of every MMO and it's just a chore until you get to max level.
Anything that lets you get to the real part of the game faster is good. Don't really feel like playing hundred hour of nonsense to get to the real game.
>>345332702
Pre-Belf Horde in general was good. Now every faggot and their mother is a Belf hunter or paladin.
Same thing happened to Alli when they introduced Worgen. Suddenly, furfags everywhere.
>>345327058
personalami
>>345327552
>i never played vanilla but I know it's not as good as cataclysm because FFXIV
okay
>>345332946
Nah, blood elf pallies are cool, especially if the player does a good job of RPing them. Doubly so once they learned to chill post-BC.
>>345323608
It would be nice if blizzard would eventually trash WoW and make a proper sequel with good gameplay. It would never happen because of the risk involved with making a new mmo, but I'd play it.
>>345331768
I used to flip flop between Guild Wars and WoW back then, and I really wished Guild Wars would introduce a group finder or something so I could clear some PvE content (since all of them are group content). Or even just an AH so I need not hop between 3~4 hubs to sell shit to players.
Finally, in their nightfall expansion, they introduced NPC robots that you can command and gear up so you could just play the whole game solo and fuck socializing altogether.
>>345325451
>crime against humanity.
Wasn't 1k Needles controlled by the Tauren though?
>>this whole thread
>vanilla
>summoning stone
>>345331438
I don't think you said shit enough.
>>345333457
Of all the problems with that post, that's what you point out?
>>345332773
What's the huge appeal of end game content? Pvp, sure. Vanilla's honor system was cool and at the same time a shitfest. Raiding? Playing a rogue in MC against Ragnaros is just backstabbing and occasionally stepping back to avoid an AoE attack. And if you're playing real hard, your time spent in between raids is time spent farming for flasks and shit which is definitely less exciting than leveling. Getting a 40 man raid to coordinate and work together is cool, but I get that kind of enjoyment in 5 man dungeons. In raids, you expect everybody to have an optimal spec and be geared. In dungeons, your group composition is much less ideal, and sometimes you have to think of unique was to win with what you've got.
>>345327720
I never realised that they terraformed it into a sideways horde logo.
>>345333443
WotLK was Naxx
>>345333607
I didn't notice that either. What the hell. The Zone is called "Azshara." That has a lot of history that isn't horde tied to it.
Any game that lets you bot is a shit game. WoW is so easy that a fucking computer program can be scripted to do PVE content.
post best wow music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNstdF54ypo
>>345333607
Makes me cringe every time I see it. And Blizzard tries to deny that they slurp on Horde cock 24/7.
>>345330385
>hating one of the best zones and quest lines
you know what, you can keep all your "good vs bad" or "save the world" quest lines, I'll just take my adventure all for my self
>>345323798
No one who hasn't played the game before probably could even tell the difference looking at these separately. This whole idea was a joke.
I will never not be mad about Azshara.
>>345332119
Fighting 24h a day for Devilsaur spawns on Nostalrius
>>345333830
Not anymore, there's some ghosts around but they only exist for laughs, like Azuregos.
>>345328860
>Most level 90s
>tryhards outside of garrisons who duel people with broken 1v1 specs
>resilience
>gold spammers spelling out their RMT website with their dead bodies near the auction house
So you've never actually played the game and just spout whatever memes you heard people talk about like a good little retarded monkey?
Because literally all of those are wrong and don't apply to WoD.
>>345324798
Until people realize that inefficient systems and mechanics bring players together then the understanding of how to restore the community will not be gained.
MMO's suffer with too much polish.
>>345333843
The only thing Cata did right was soundtracks. Sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URh8ca89olM
>>345333903
People shat on Uldum so much I think they didn't actually play it. The entire thing was a blast.
They should have just got rid of the level system in WoW from day one. They stagnated their game design by designing their content around levels instead of designing their content around each classes unique skills you can accumulate.
>>345334250
if you were stupid enough to buy wod you don't deserve a serious answer
>>345334476
kill yourself
you're the cancer killing /v/
>>345333830
>rape one of the most unique and beautiful zones from vanilla WoW because of "FOR THE HORDE SO EPIC FOR THE WIN!!!11"
>>345332246
>blizzard's face when they realized they could make more money with a flop than with a hit
>>345332927
Levelling is part of the game. The idea that Endgame PvE is the real game is one of the cancers that killed MMOs. That and stories that make the protagonist to be "the one hero".
>>345334378
The Cata soundtrack is good but it's not a world soundtrack.
They completly ignored the ambient feel of vanilla soundtrack and created a new one that 90% of the players mute because it's just loud noises 24/7
it's good music, not a good soundtrack
>>345329230
>Even on your own personal story they fucked up and made the Player Character (THE HERO). It use to be you had no real place in the story, the story was a side show. So even in the aspect of story, the game was self-determined.
Except Human/Alliance players are kinda the only thing holding Stormwind together from going all out anarchy and civil war in the vanilla story line.
>>345333830
Yeah and the goblins came and fucked it all up with a tacky travesty of self indulgence.
Like the goblins they are. It fits perfectly.
>>345334552
>I feel the need to use a reaction picture everytime I post
it's just like on rebbit!
>>345334660
>Endgame PvE is the real game is one of the cancers that killed MMOs
even WoWs lead game designer believes that endgame is the real game and leveling is just filler to act as a tutorial to the games mechanics and extend your monthly sub payments as long as possible
>>345334404
I'm surprised you've even quested there yourself, considering you seem to lack even the most basic reading skills.
Nobody's complaining about the zone itself, genius. That parts has been spelled out for you multiple times. The major problem is the painfully transparent "Harrison Jones" NPC and how the whole quest chain is a parody. You could have written an original chain of archeological quests that didn't just spoof movies 90% of the player base is too young to have even seen, but that's just how shit Blizzard's writers are.
>>345334763
>Complaining about images on an image board
>>345326918
I don't understand why they kept trying to fix what wasn't broken. It was on the up and up from vanilla to wrath, and they decide "this shit sucks" and change everything. I can't understand it.
>>345334763
kys
>>345334589
Admittedly it was lacking for content, but I actually kind of liked the zone the way it was. I never leveled a character without stopping by to do the handful of quests it provided. They literally could have invented another island to give the Goblins their 10-20 questing hub. That's what they did with the Draenei.
It was doomed because of its close proximity to Orgrimmar.
>>345334829
Woah man, you too because I just said specifically that the Harrison Jones stuff was a blast.
I'm sorry you didn't like the aliens in Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull but Uldum is still a blast.
>>345334054
>I will never not be mad about Azshara.
That's the exact phrase that comes to my mind whenever I think about Cataclysm.
>>345334404
>NINE NINE NINE HITLER JOKE AMIRITE GUYS?
>INDIANA JOOONES REFERENCESSS
>PYGMEEESSS
Uldum was shit
>>345334668
I'll give you that. I think the pieces evoke the zones they are set to well, but that doesn't mean they should be played on repeat.
>>345323757
The only thing they need to fix is the pace really. Levelling 1-60 is way too short.
Not to mention you start off during the cataclysm. Cant stand that leap into the third expansion straight away.
>>345334589
What happened to Azshara ought be enough for any self-respecting elf to declare jihad against the Horde.
>>345335148
Pretty sure they're lengthening the 1-60 leveling with Legion, I remember something about that.
Looked at my bnet account and saw I had WoD access even though I never bought it. Just resubbed. How long does it take to level to 100? I'm 90 right now.
>>345335106
to be fair, the default setting for the soundtrack was not repeat. So the song would only play once and then it would be quite for quite a few minutes before it faded in again. Helped with the ambiance
>>345323798
>Flooding Thousand Needles
>Make cringey Horde symbol on Azshara
>Not updating Tanaris in the slightest
>Flooding part of Darkshore, making it a pain to traverse through it compared to vanilla
That's how much I'm willing to give you.
>>345335225
About 23 hours of work.
>>345335225
Few days if you quest in Spires of Arak.
>>345335225
Not too long, you could probably be 100 by the time the Legion pre-expansion event kicks off if you're interested in that. The leveling experience in WoD is one of the better ones in the entire game.
>>345335225
You could probably do it today if you just rush through and do all the bonus objectives. It took me about a week but I like to do every quest and explore all the zones while I level.
>>345323608
WE LIVED CLOSER TO T REX AS THE T REX LIVED TO STEGOSAURUS
I'M NOT EVEN LYING.
Azuremyst Isle is probably on of my favorite yet it gives me the creeps everytime I level there.
Feels like you're truly alone there
>>345335225
Without heirlooms 8 hours is easy as fuck to do
With heirlooms and exp potion you can do it in 3-4 hours easily
>>345335291
Also the whole Defias in Westfall, now is just bad.
>>345335590
Why would he use heirlooms at lvl 90, retard.
>>345335647
Why would he not?
>>345335518
It means they did a good job then, since that's exactly the kind of experience the Draenei who landed there would've felt. First time on a new world, no idea what the fuck it's going to be like, no idea who you can trust or what dangers are out there.
>>345334820
>even WoWs lead game designer believes that endgame is the real game
And since they started making the game entirely around end-game, the playerbase collapsed.
Maybe they need a new lead.
>>345335432
That's fucked.
>>345335291
I feel like the only person who was mad as fuck about the changes to Desolace.
>>345335161
Blizzard will never write any sort of retaliation for the Alliance. Their precious horde would be too upset about it.
>>345335701
Because they don't scale past 60 unless you upgrade them. And he's not going to have the gold to do that at lvl 90.
>>345323608
11 year olds playing CoD MW2 when it came out can now post on /v/.
>>345335817
No one really goes there so it gets looked over in favor of being mad about the more accessible zones.
Say what you want about current WoW and how little there is to do at endgame, but lets be honest here: Blizzard always manages to create amazing looking and comfy zones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlXJJoXW2qM
>>345335771
They don't need a new lead, the game still makes millions of dollars each month. Dude is already set for life.
>>345335639
>I guess he put the cart... before the horse.
Memes.
>>345335935
blizz's art team has always been top notch when it comes to environments
>>345323798
>no run for menethil harbor anymore
>>345336046
AQ 40 isn't very good
>Try WoW for the first time
>"Hey, this isn't too bad!"
>Start doing quests in first zone
>Can't get anything done because of people riding on heirloom sidecarts ganking all the quest enemies
>Finally kill enough
>Hoping the next quests let me explore the area
>QUEST COMPLETED, and I'm immediately too high level for this zone to be of any significance
>rinse and repeat for several levels and zones
>try Battlegrounds because it sounds fun
>get fucking annihilated by heirloom faggots
this isn't fun
>>345335308
>>345335338
>>345335381
>>345335406
Thanks buddies. Gonna try and reach 100 before Legion world event.
>>345336046
If only their gear design team was on point.
>Every tier set has giant shoulderpads
>All endgame gear has to have some sort of particle effect
>>345336107
At least the soundtrack made it feel kinda weird.
Not that you'd have music enabled while raiding.
>>345323608
The updated zones work better mechanically but I don't like how a lot of them are used to hype up the battle with deathwing, which players will probably never do now. The original zones all had self-contained stories that made sense regardless of which expansion you were playing them in.
>>345323798
Is there one for Azeroth?
>>345329246
Except the geography part, 1.0 geography was complete garbage.
>>345336046
Yeah that's my point.
There is not a single other game where I can just run around for hours, just looking at the environment
>>345336237
The gear design varies so much it makes me wonder if they're smoking crack half the time when working
Half the sets are so goddamn ugly, while half the sets are amazing looking
>>345336191
This is why I stopped subbing.
>>345336323
I always felt bad for the music guys. They go through all that trouble to make music for raids, try to make them fit the boss, and edit it to suit the phases, but raiders will almost always turn it off.
>>345336191
Heirlooms ruined the early levels of WoW. Worst thing to ever come to the game, it's not even fun. Whenever I want to do low level PvP or questing, I have to grind on my 100s just to make sure I have every heirloom.
>>345336369
Guess you mean Eastern Kingdoms
>but it was called Azeroth in WC1
No, only the Kingdom of Stormwind was called Azeroth
>>345335817
Yeah Desolace too, but the other were more upsetting to me.
>have some fond memories of leveling in strange places
>basically the zones everybody though sucked ass because they didn't offer the best rewards
>looking up shit right now
>it is all gone
Blizzard fucked up big time with the revamp of vanilla zones. Not that I care too much, I don't play anymore and don't think I will ever again
>>345336369
I don't have it, this is the best I can give you.
i always liked the flying ships in wotlk and in the maelstrom
>>345336394
>There is not a single other game where I can just run around for hours, just looking at the environment
I replayed Gilneas recently and that place is really great. Shame they have good parts of it sink into the sea and then have fuck all quests happen there after you leave.
>>345323608
>stormwind still isnt fixed
If blizz really has a ton of under-utilized manpower as many would meme, I hope they can somehow adapt the level scaling system in Legion to old zones. It feels REALLY smooth transitioning between zones with no worry of over-leveling.
If they are even crazier, they can also adapt the endgame world-quest system to the old quests. A large chunk of the world quests are a repeat of leveling quests anyways.
>>345336612
It will be next week.
>>345336394
I remember doing the cartographer achievements back in WotLK. I'd almost exclusively played alliance (since Vanilla) at that point, and the moment I got Quel'thalas and Silvermoon I was stunned at how amazing it looked. Spent ages just wandering around taking it all in (and occasional tricking new players into attacking explosive engineering bunnies)
>>345336549
What's that island to the east of the Badlands in the Cata map?
>>345335935
I wouldn't call it "Blizzard"'s doing, it's all thanks to a passionate and dedicated art team that actually gives a fuck, unlike everyone else there.
I almost feel sorry for them. They put their soul into their work but everyone else shits on it in every other aspect.
>>345336612
It is in Legion
>>345323798
Wow, that's some atrocious zoning.
>>345323798
what the fuck is that southeast of azshara?
>>345336746
Holy shit, time to go back to sneaking into the Park and spending hours AFKing in the basement of the empty tavern.
>>345336996
Not quite.
>>345336582
The Gilneas starter area plot actually continues on the horde side as silverpine forest quests. It's worth creating a hordie just to check that out. It's one of the zones that became better after Cata.
>>345334820
>>345332927
ITT: Cancerkid that haven't played any MMO before WoW.
>>345336770
One thing that was cool about PvP servers was how players were more likely to have not visited opposite faction locations. Or hell, you even had it on PvE servers.
I'm glad we all agree that the undead have the comfiest starting area and the tauren have the worst
>>345337149
How is Mulgore not comfy?
>>345336996
It's not park anymore, it's a memorial for Varian Wrynn
>>345336989
I think it's a shitscribble of the goblin 5-10 zone.
>>345337149
>dumb frogposter
>having shit opinions
pottery
>>345337149
Nah, Orc the worst
Durotar a shit
>>345337429
that looks like shit famalam
>>345337429
fug :DDD
>>345337149
Hey, I love Tirisfal too, but we're gonna have a problem if you don't take back what you said about Mulgore.
>>345337521
Better than how it is now.
>>345335935
Suramar as a concept is great. A max level only story zone.
>>345337521
To each and their own I guess, I think it looks pretty nice and it's cool to see how improve the textures are compared to the rest of Stormwind
The old park is overrated as fuck anyways, especially on RP realms it was fucking cancer
>Play on a PVE realm
>In a contested zone
>Horde dueling some alliance players without their PVP flag on
>Decide to duel one of the alliance players
>Turn on my PVP fight mid fight and then do /yield
>Alliance player hits me by mistake and he gets PVP flagged
>Neutral town guards start attacking him and then horde players jumps in
I'm literally the only asshole who did this.
>Blizzard in charge of making new maps
>>345323798
dude mountainous borders lmao
>>345323608
Damn. And I played all through this time and gonna play Legion. Someone end this misery already.
>>345337798
Being an asshole in WoW was really fun for a long time.
>Join AV
>Keep taunting last boss to reset him each time
>Turn a surefire win into an eventual loss
>Watch the unfiltered rage unfold in chat
Reminder that flying mounts are the bane of WoW
It took all sense of adventure and fucked it up
Not to mention that you steam roll through the game, level up too fast and don't really spend any time in zones or are challenged at all which makes the whole thing boring
>>345337959
This is why flying mounts were a mistake.
>>345334918
They tried to please all the different types of players and ended up spreading themselves too thin.
They couldnt accept an awesome game with a small few flaws so they constantly decided to nitpick.
ALSO, changing (or "updating" as they would have you believe) core mechanics of the game with each expansion was a false way of keeping the gameplay "fresh" and drawing old players to keep the $$$$ going.
They have continuously passed off these "updates" as some sort of brand new feature to the game that you just cant wait to explore...
Goddamn I hate Blizzard.
>>345338214
>>345338223
they didnt have flying mounts in wod and it was still shit
>>345338108
I'm the closest I have ever been to not playing a new expansion. Legion just has me devoid of all hype. The classes have so little depth and complexity that I find it really hard to care.
Plus, it's the same shit it's always been. Level to 110, gear up in dungeons, then wait for raids and spam those each week. PvP will inevitably be shit once again, and the social experience will be lacking.
What's the point? We've already done it all before.
>>345336572
Fuck I miss this game so much, leveling in Westfall for the first time and doing Deathmines, the fishing competitions on Booty Bay, entering Western Plaguelands when I was lvl 10, falling to my death in Thousand Needles because I diddn't know there was such a huge fall, doing quests in Blasted Lands and entering the Dark Portal, the race track in Thousand Needles, the questing of Un'Goro crater, being brutally gangraped by an horde of murlocs...
>>345338426
WoD is shit no matter what, so what?
>>345338214
>>345338223
Good job Blizzard knows this and has designed new content around the lack of it since after Cata where they fucked it up by having every high level zone allow flying from the start.
MoP 85-90: No flying
MoP Isle of Thunder: No flying
MoP Timeless Isle: No flying
WoD: No flying at all until after a grind in the final patch
Legion: No flying at all until after a grind that doesn't end until an unspecified patch.
>>345338489
I'm just gonna try it because I know I'll eventually do, before that closest to skipping an xpac was MoP because of setting. I don't have any hopes for it, moreover I fully expect it to be hot garbage so the worst thing I'll just feel good about being right.
>>345329230
STV was the reason I quit Kronos.
It's not enjoyable to get killed and camped for hours.
One of my biggest gaming regrets is that I never started playing WoW until just after Cata launched so therefore will never experience the game back when it was amazing and before Cata turned all the old zones into pure shit...
Fuck Cata so much.
>>345328860
>Lvl 90 in WoD
>Anal, thunderfury or Dirge in WoD
>World PvP ever being anything but a gankfest where skill didn't matter
>Gold spammers ever going away since Vanilla
kek
>>345323608
thanks guys. now i'm reinstalling. really, thanksi was having the urge to reinstall it, but i was fighting it. i thought i could be strong. you caused me to relapse.
>>345338923
May as well wait until after the pre-patch goes live during the week so you don't have to relearn a class for a 2nd time in a few days.
You might've come to your senses by then too.
>>345327508
This happened on Nostalrius too except replace the dead gold spammers bodies with teleporting chinks.
>quit before cata was ever announced
>never played consistently because fuck what this game turned into
>kind of curious to experience some of the Cata revamped zones but not paying money for the shit that is current WoW
Hmm.
>>345339353
If anything this thread should give you reasons to not want to experience the revamped vanilla zones.
>>345327909
>>levelling was slower, but the game was less focused on end-game. Now it's just a race to level cap because that's where everyone else is
>>old quests had much better writing
This is such rose colored glasses bullshit. Everyone and their mothers was racing to 60 at vanilla release, the fucking difference was it took us a month and not a weekend
>>345331104
>wanna check guys items
>missclick party invite
>he accepts
>too awkward to quit
>>345339353
> quit before cata
> call current game shit despite having never played it
If you've done your own research then its fine, if not then please think for yourself and come to your own conclusion about the state of the game instead of just spouting the opinions of others.
>>345339591
They actually fixed this at some point, Invite and Inspect aren't next to each other on the drop down list now.
>>345339454
I can tell you that my 3rd character onwards in vanilla were mostly leveled by pure grinding because it was just faster.
is it worth getting into this game as a completely new player with a full time job with mandatory overtime?
>>345339591
>tfw i had this happen once then i started inspecting by typing out "/inspect" instead
>>345323798
pottery
>>345335291
>Not updating *Silithus in the slightest
The fuck is wrong with me, I confused the zones.
>>345335432
Modern birds are closer to tyranosaurus than stegasaurus is, both biologically speaking and timewise
>>345340125
I think the argument was that Silithus already had an update in vanilla and you could go to TBC zones at level 58 anyway.
>>345340125
silithus was already updated once at the end of vanilla
>>345339938
WoW 2 will be set in the distant future and all of durotar and azshara will be covered by the Orgimmar mega city
>>345324798
the jitters questline is a good example since it teaches the player to not just chase one questline at a time like a headless retail player.
on the next character you level you realize that you can combine different quest objectives and do them together at the same time.
on the character you level after that you realize that you can take a gryphon from darkshire to westfall and head east instead of running across the entire zone like a mongoloid.
>>345329765
I'm so fucking tired of this meme. I played for a month of WoD just now and could constantly chat with players in dungeons and most would talk. Some would stay for several more dungeons afterwards. Some would ask to become bnet friends and play later.
Guilds have not gone anywhere, especially social guilds. You can do what you've always done with guilds.
Everything is there if you fucking want it to be. Hell, cross-realms make it easy to play with friends and people that didn't happen to be on the same server as you are.
You could use the same fucking argument in Vanilla as you quite seriously could get by without ever interacting with people just fine.
>>345340356
A cyberpunk Azeroth doesn't sound so bad when you think about it, imagine the labyrinths under Ironforge full of shady dwarves and gnomes selling augmentations
>>345340549warhammer
>>345336549
They really should have taken the opportunity to attach the Ghostlands and Eversong Woods to the Kalimdor map in Cataclysm. Now we'll forever have two zones on the physical continent that are detached from the rest of the world.
>>345339428
I don't even fucking get why people hate the cata revamps. I seriously fucking don't.
If anything, it's just your nostalgia speaking.
>>345337521
To be fair, most of the ground around it had been blown out. The park broke off and sank into the ocean. They must have done a ton of reclamation to fill in the hole.
>>345340481
Old players just don't want to admit that they have become antisocial, so they try to blame the changes to the game and the "new" community.
>>345340871
Yeaaah I can see that now
>>345340642
Warcraft 40k would be so cash.
>>345340986
I heard Blizzard tried to get a license from games workshop first. After they got to fuck off they ripped them off with both warcraft and starcraft.
Shame, I would have loved a warhammer fantasy game with vanilla wow mechanics.
>>345340986
Warcraft is already one giant Warhammer ripoff, so I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard pulls out space marines and all that shit.
>>345340948
>Old players just don't want to admit that they have become antisocial
This pretty much. People fell into their cliques and never left them, or they took hiatuses and find no one they know still plays when they get back in, and aren't used to having to make new friends.
I spent my first couple weeks doing nothing in RP because I was too shy to actually talk to new people when I restarted playing again last month.
>>345340863
For me it's the bad humor that over-relies on pop culture references For others it's moving some zones away from what they felt like before the revamp (like Azshara), or a general dislike of the very fast pacing of levelling (you out level most zones before finishing them, even without heirlooms).
>>345341183
Warcraft 1 and 2 is so generic that it's not really ripping off anything other than generic D&D.
>>345341364
I really do honestly hate the fast-pace leveling
I may get halfway through a semi-interesting questline before I outlevel the zone and it's infuriating
>>345335432
>I'M NOT EVEN LYING.
britbong detected
>>345341221
>space marines
mate
>>345341183
>>345341221
Even FB and 40k fans are mostly past calling it a ripoff. Even then, GW is pretty fickle about stuff when it comes to big games, especially back then, so the idea that Geedubs broke off an agreement and Blizz picked up some pieces isn't too far fetched.
They're far enough apart now to stop the debate.
>>345330585
>Get group for BRD after 2 hours of searching
>30mins+ for everyone to get there and summon
>Either do some of it okay, tank dies and leaves
or
>Get half-way through (2~ hours in), "sorry guys g2g dad needs help". Group falls apart.
>>345341364
Pop culture references have been staple since the beginning. It's the one thing that all MMOs are full of.
>(like Azshara)
Azshara was pretty much a zone nobody went to because there was almost literally nothing there.
>or a general dislike of the very fast pacing of levelling
This is because long running MMOs need to ensure that you don't have to endure the leveling at the same sluggish pace it originally was in that expansion.
The one thing that actually kills questing as an option is the lack of automatic flight paths, I have no idea why they decided to remove them.
Why? Because nobody wants to spend 30 minutes going to zone A, level in it for 30 mins, then spend another 30 mins to zone B and so forth.
>>345341641
You may like Legion's level-scaling.
>>345342250
>long running MMOs need to ensure that you don't have to endure the leveling at the same sluggish pace it originally was in that expansion.
That's because you should have interesting content for the whole progression, not just at the levelcap.
>>345342250
>Pop culture references have been staple since the beginning. It's the one thing that all MMOs are full of.
You can still have pop culture references but many Cata revamped zones simply went overboard with them, and other zones showed that Blizz can make great zones at the same time without using them too much (Gilneas and Vash'jir that I mentioned earlier in the thread). I think they just ran out of ideas due to the sheer amount of content they needed to produce.
>Azshara was pretty much a zone nobody went to because there was almost literally nothing there.
The thing with Azshara was that while it's true few people went there, a lot of people see it as a bad decision to completely destroy it's atmosphere as a place of ruins and ancient history, and turn into a Goblin theme park.
>This is because long running MMOs need to ensure that you don't have to endure the leveling at the same sluggish pace it originally was in that expansion.
I get the fast paced levelling thing and why they did it, but that doesn't stop it feeling awkward as hell and poorly designed.
>>345335935
Zones have always looked beautiful/good.
Problem is zones are basicly empty afterwards cause there's nothing to do or shitty dailies for a pet/mount.
Warlords leveling was fun, but the story was stupid and I went back and felt more like "That's it?" than "Fuck yeah I liberated this place."
>>345342998
It doesn't help that the Iron Horde leaders were dropping like dominoes lined-up. It seems like the players were the aggressors at times.
>>345343350
>It seems like the players were the aggressors at times.
Pretty much, Legion is actually our fault because we didn't just destroy the portal and leave, we released Gul'dan because nothing bad could have happened from that and then stuck around to murder everyone and push the Iron Horde to the breaking point when they had no means on attacking us again.
>>345343623
Truly you, the players are...The Warlords of Draenor™
Cataclysm zones were much better than Vanilla zones.
Only things Vanilla did better was force people to communicate and didn't invalidate your gear so quickly because the item level treadmill clusterfuck didn't get crazy until TBC.
>>345343849
We don't forgive, we don't forget. We are Legion™
>>345343350
>Fucking Iron Horde has even/superior technology
>Entire army gets stopped because of you alone
Thanks Blizzard, it's good you're removing your unique characters that people like and warp them to bastardized versions instead.
>>345344718
It seems like Blizzard is trying to rope the babies into playing by holding your hand constantly and calling you THE CHOSEN ONE
>>345344883
You're not the chosen one. You're champion/hero/commander. Which is more or less apt considering the players have defeated Kael, Illidan, Vashj, Kil'jaeden, Infinite dragonflight plans, Arthas, Deathwing, Ragnaros, and countless of other big bads.
It would be ridiculous to call the players "adventurers" at this point. Which is why they've long since been at least champions.
>>345344883
Wasn't Cataclysm the one expansion that introduced "cinematic experiences" where every fucking goblin newb saved Thrall as a part of their levelling progression? What a fucking cancer.
>>345345659
More like TBC.
>>345329724
Coherency. The world was inter-connected and uniform.
You couldn't poof into a dungeon from anywhere, you had to walk there. And it's the walking that was the real reward of playing, not the loot or anything. You met new people and saw new things.
They compromised the philosophy later on, but there also was less emphasis on instanced content and there was no five tiers of difficulty modes to each instance. There was THE ragnaros and THE thunderfury, not heroic mode ragnaros with heroic mode thunderfury.
Consistency.
It's those little things that make it feel like a World, rather than a "game".
Compromising that world coherence made wow a glorified lobby.
>>345343950
Cataclysm zones are more 'convenient' compared to vanilla zones in that they applied everything they learned in the past two expansions regarding 'streamlined questing' into them.
HOWEVER, the writing, storytelling and story being told - which some would consider to be the most important aspect of the game, suffered a great deal. Quest writing in Cata-Azeroth compared to quest writing Vanilla-Azeroth is an absolute joke, so much so that I cannot imagine any new player beyond the age of 16 would want anything to do with modern WoW. With vanilla, you used to be able to kinda take the ingame lore seriously because the storytelling was for the large part internally consistent and there was something great at its core. Now it's just a series of pop culture references at best and incredibly lame RP tier Metzen fanfic at worst. Remember Thrall's- I mean GOEL's trauma inducing wedding quest in Cataclysm?
The sad thing is, modern day WoW is actually guilty of the immaturity that people back in the day accused the game of.
>>345338835
Maybe you should have used the general chat to band together and fight back you autist cuck freak.
>>345339938
thats on purpose, the goblins terraformed azshara as a gift to the horde.
>>345346405
Nobody but RP and lorejunkies could ever care about quest text. WoW quest writing is a joke where you're just given excuses to go and gather bear asses or kill some kobolds.
Even then, something like the books would always trump quest shit when it came to lore.
Has Blizzard given any indication of 'unfucking' some of the vanilla zones or are they going to leave it as it is?
Did their talks with Nostalrius devs amount to anything or did they just quietly murder them?
The one zone I would argue that has slightly improved subsequent to Cata is the Wetlands. It used to be a whole deal of nothing, at least now we get more orcs and pirate ghosts.
I really wish they would unfuck elwynn/westfall/redridge/duskwood though. Their wotlk incarnations were damn near perfect already. And I really really wish they would restore Maraudon to its former glory. It used to be such an awesome (trio of) instances...
>>345347035
It's that way today, but it wasn't always the case.
You didn't have to be a lore junkie to appreciate the quest design that went into the Legend of Stalvan quest, easily one of the top 5 quests of vanilla in the way the story was introduced and unfolded. Too bad they ruined that quest.
>>345347429
The talks Nost devs had with Blizz devs amounted to that Blizz says they still got all the Vanilla stuff saved somewhere.
So it means that Blizzard might (keyword) do legacy servers. So I bet they're just testing the waters for it.
>>345347759
>It's that way today, but it wasn't always the case.
Starting from Vanilla the priority of quest chat has always been WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU DO. Not why.
Then if people couldn't find it they thottbot'd it.
Nobody gave a shit about the texts because fetch quests don't make for good quests. That's why they have put cinematic stuff and scenes that don't require you to read through the boring stuff.
>>345348083
Thank you my dude
>>345346672
>5 level 40s can kill a level 60
no
>>345347035
>>345347759
It was more about larger world consistency for me.
Every race had its own theme and small story.
Human quests were about small settlements being abandoned by stormwind, and the peoples' dismay at the corrupt nobility, the defias traitors, etc.
Dwarves had a conflict with the dark irons, who were staging terrorist attacks and robbing archeological expeditions looking for artefacts.
As a low level player, you were led through these stories with small, bite sized chunks until it is revealed that stormwind has been taken over by a black dragon broodmother and that the princess of ironforge has been kidnapped by the emperor of the iron dwarves. And those stories culminate at the black rock mountain, the most important and iconic zone in the game, where dark iron dwarves enslaved by ragnaros wage war against the black dragonflight.
It was fucking epic.
>>345348083
Maev lusting after Illidan's demon dick would've been a better plot turn than everything we've got instead.
>>345348487
They can in vanilla.
Hell, a fresh 60 can be poked to death by 10 level 25s.
You should get good, faggot.
>>345348083
>just let him sit there like this
I hope she likes crusty cum because that shit will still be there when she comes back
>>345348487
level 60's arent invincible and the powergap of max level isnt nearly as fucking insane as it is now
a fully geared level 100 can literally fucking one hit a fresh 100
>>345348715
When did the stat inflation become a problem? WotLK with its multiple difficulty levels in raiding?
>>345348690
>implying she won't have Naisha clean it up
>>345336549
>black penis in Cata Badlands
nice
>>345348715
>a fully geared level 100 can literally fucking one hit a fresh 100
That has been a thing since Vanilla.
>>345348906
More like TBC.
>>345348906
It was already a problem in Tier 3.
I think blizzard was thinking "what the fuck, it's the last tier of the expansion, let's ramp it up to 11". Warlocks had over 10k health and were critting for over 15k with soul fire at that point.
TBC was already a shitshow of gear scaling, 70s with crafted prebis had full hitcap and 25% crit in crafted tailoring gear, while in vanilla, you could only reach 25% crit as a caster in AQ gear and you could never, ever get hitcapped.
>>345348906
Yep. Then they added upgrading ilvls in Cata, then they added random ilvl bonuses in MoP.
>>345349072
Really? I don't remember the stat inflation being too bad in TBC. You actually wouldn't start replacing T2 and higher vanilla raid gear until Heroics at 70 if I recall.
>>345349072
>That has been a thing since Vanilla.
What? No it hasnt. Hasnt even been a thing in LK.
A lvl 55 actually had a good chance at beating an MC 60 if he played his cards right.
>>345349072
Vanilla didn't have fucking night and day differences between a newly leveled 60 and a geared one, sure the geared one had better gear but the newly leveled 60 one had a chance.
Unlike now.
>>345349305
I actually remember beating a MC geared 60 with my 58 shammy by getting lucky crits with Frostshock and Chain lightning.
>>345349302
People were instantly whining about how the quest shit you get from HFP is replacing gear really fast.
>>345349305
>>345349483
>What? No it hasnt. Hasnt even been a thing in LK.
Yes it has.
Specific classes have always been able to 1 shot and stomp freshly leveled accounts.
Not to mention you said fully geared and when it's like that it's even worse since the best PvE gear was BiS for PvP.
If you were a 60 in your lovely greenies and even if the enemy was "just" T2 you'd get fucking stomped.
>>345349483
>>345349305
Also, currently your shitty gear scales to a specific ilvl when doing PvP as resilience has been removed from the game.
Not to mention getting honor gear takes quite literally few hours tops if honor event is going on.
>>345349302
>level 62 quest reward staff in hfp
>2 crit and 65 spd at level 60
>shadowflame staff from nefarian, final boss of BWL
>2 crit and 80 spd
Ayy lmao.
>>345349726
>Specific classes have always been able to 1 shot and stomp freshly leveled accounts.
You're talking shit. The only class that could come close to an actual one shot was a 3 minute mage.
>>345349985
Is that from the live game or TBC?
>>345350038
Shaman is literally the most obvious one shotter of Vanilla. All you'd need good weapon and you could fucking one shot pretty much anyone with SS + WF.
>>345350038
Also you should bear in mind how many specs were almost complete shit and had no such big bursts available for them.
Can't do it when you don't have the tools for it.
>>345348715
>y-yeah b-but you c-can d-do a th-thing...
Stop makign excuses for a bad game.
>>345350038
Well, as a warlock in BWL gear, you could crit for 4K with a shadowbolt, which was like the hp pool of a fresh 60 in some dungeon gear.
Provided they don't counterspell, silence, vanish, or use any cc while you stand there getting a cast off.
>>345350124
I was like that back in tbc/wotlk, as far as I can remember.
>>345350162
Shamans could one shot a player of the same and higher gear level, to be honest, it's not fair to compare.
>>345332664
wonder if we'll ever see an MMORPG with gameplay at least as good as classic WoW and graphics that look nearly this good
>>345350419
>Shamans could one shot a player of the same and higher gear level, to be honest, it's not fair to compare.
How so? It still applies that they could easily one shot new 60s.
>>345350038
Also, in TBC you had Mages and Retardins (in pre-patch more or less though), WotLK had Warlocks, DK, pretty sure even Paladins and Warriors both could do it, esp with Shadowmourne.
>>345346405
>Redridge is a Rambo Parody
Ugggh.
>>345349726
>since the best PvE gear was BiS for PvP.
I hate this meme.
PvE bis for casters in vanilla was a crafted tailoring set with literally 0 stamina and all stats allocated to +damage and hit rating.
Nobody used tier 2 in pve.
>>345340735
wait why should it be attahed to kalimdor?
So what non-Vanilla aspects would you find in acceptable on a vanilla (legit or otherwise) server?
I wouldn't mind if transmog or barber shops were kept.
>>345350926
For the most part it was BiS, don't pretend otherwise.
Also, enjoy hunters with hurricane and BT never letting you cast :^)
>>345351084
It's probably a typo and he meant Eastern Kingdoms. I agree, they really just need to remove the BC requirement and merge Quel'thalas (maybe Azuremyst) with the rest of the vanilla world.
>>345351213
Anything that saves inventory space
>>345351243
>hunters
>ever beating me
Lmao
>put curse of exhaustion on them
>death coil
>run at them
>dispel trap with felhunter
>stand in the deadzone with dots on, spamming /lol
>>345351213
More ress points
Better mana regen or bit bigger mana pools at lower levels
>>345334931
Azshara was supposed to have a big BG in it but they never got around to adding it, Azshara Crater has been sitting in the game files since vanilla.
>>345351213
Dual talent.
Fuck respeccing every time you want to do a battleground or farm.
>>345351561
You could climb into it in the main game to find an empty crater with some ruins. Wall jumping was fun.
>>345351503
>spamming /lol
Disgusting
So I take it I shouldn't resub this game? I wanted to try the new PVP area with my hunter, 1-60 was quick with 1 level per instance run, but suddenly 60+ started to become MEGA SLOW for no fucking reason at all. I'm not sure I can stand the slower pace.
>>345351213
Dungeon Finder.
>b-but muh exploration and socialization
nobody actually liked spamming trade chat "LFM NEED 1 DPS FOR [insert dungeon here]" only to have some fucker leave when you actually get to the dungeon then having to hearthstone back to town and spam again.
>>345348539
Human quests in vanilla were top tier easily.
It's amazing how they managed to tie up all the starting zone quests together with the overarching story. Remember how you could visit Varian in the basement of that keep near Theramore in Dustwallow Marsh which was guarded by all those high level naga?
>>345351503
>warlock in legion
good luck lmao
>>345351618
But it was amazing to pay 50g all the time!
>>345351867
It takes like 40-50 hours total to level to 90.
85-90 takes practically no time at all nowadays.
Honestly, 50-58 is the absolute worst part.
>>345351778
>not having /spit and /lol bound to mousewheel
>not using a
>[Orcish] me kil N i g g a
>macro
Do you even pvp?
The reason why Vanilla and BC were so much fun was simply just an age thing.
I started playing when I was 12 about 11 years ago. I was immersed in another land, I felt like I had a second life. Exploring everything with friends felt exciting and new. Getting new gear was challenging but so rewarding, rare drops were ACTUALLY rare. The experience dulled out over the years. Maybe if I had just started playing it again now Id get the same experience? Probably not though.
>>345352062
Playing Skyrim gave me the same sense of wonder playing WoW vanilla did on release.
>>345351992
My hunter is 62 or something atm.. I just want him 100 , because that's when the PVP has some value
>>345351927
>ally warrior
>get a class quest to go out to some island in the fucking barrens
>it's a super secret warrior fight club
druids can keep their gay little tree fort.
>>345342208
That's what you call an MMO. You know, meeting people to face different situations. That requires time to organize but what you get back is a sense of community and generally speaking "an adventure".
You just want an arcade game with online capabilities which is precisely what you have. Enjoy, heard it's doing good.
>>345351927
wow i literally never knew this
did he have any function at all or was he just there?
>>345352313
>tfw it isn't our order hall
>tfw val'kyr are finally coming back
Legion will be shit but I'll keep an eye out for the porn.
>>345352213
Honestly me too, but eventually like everything else it dulled out
>>345352497
Just there until they decided to continue the Missing Diplomat questline. Which they ultimately didn't and you had to read a comic book series to know what the fuck happened.
>>345352290
TBC goes pretty fast if you do dungeons, Outland questing has always sucked and now even more because especially thrallmar is a popular ganking place for higher levels.
WotLK same deal, instances will take you there pretty fast if you just keep on doing randoms.
>>345352062
>I started playing when I was 12 about 11 years ago.
Pretty much this. I've been around every expansion at least for a week or two. The only reason why I can't be bothered too much with WoW now is that I don't raid so it has nothing much to offer for me.
>>345324798
A lot of vanilla quests, intentionally or not, encourage grouping up to deal with shit slightly above what you're able to do solo
>>345323608
I too saw the reddit post pointing that out yesterday, OP
>>345352760
Nah, elite quests are far and between. Honestly, if the drop rates weren't so shit I would defend grouping up but Vanilla quest item drop rates were awful and having to share them is even more torturous.
>>345352726
They sure loved not finishing questlines.
>>345352313
>killing felguards in blasted lands for my summon infernal quest
>wander into the tainted scar
>this nigga is there hanging out with the elite level 63 demons
>"psst, kid, wanna summon a doomguard?"
How did warlocks go from best class to worst class?
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/4soh9r/wow_showerthought_cataclysm_zones_are_now_as_old/
>>345352928
At least something stayed the same.
>>345352928
His story at least got resolved for the Ahn'qiraj build up.
>>345352897
I'm not talking about just Elite quests. There's shit like that mine in Hillsbrad with crazy fast respawn timers where you pretty much can't avoid pulling 2-3 enemies at a time. Or that Druid camp in Ashenvale with the fucker at the top of the tower that summons a bunch of Treants when you aggro him. There's plenty of shit that's clearly not soloable at the level you get the quest even if it's not marked as Elite.
>>345353089
>should we actually do that underwater raid
>Nah, this entire zone was a fucking mistake
>>345353172
but i got a dope ass hat that turned me into a gnome though
>>345353009
blizzand's muh class fantasy. destro locks are glorified fire mages at this point, at least give them green fire by default fuck.
>>345353089
>Neptulon actually comes back in Legion with the biggest fucking handwave to how the fuck he escaped
>>345353152
Most likely oversights and I wouldn't do them just because of that reason.
I remember soloing hillsbrad mines, though.
By and large the respawn timers could be either super fast or "I've been sitting here for 1 hour where the fuck is he" tier.
>>345352313
This and vanilla/BC blacksmithing were fun as fuck
>Travel all that way
>I AM THE BEZERKER, CONAN, GOD OF MEN
>>345352570
Garrisons 2.0, yeah no. I'm glad it's not.
>>345351876
And here we have it folks. This is how WoW came to be what it is.
>>345353314
>destro is watered down firemage
>affliction is watered down spriest
>demonology had all of its flavor taken away by demon hunters and death knights
Delete the class already blizzard, there's no point for it to exist anymore.
>>345353009
>Priest class quests
>"Hey got heal this nigga"
>"Good job, here's a free robe"
At least the Benediction/Anatema quest was cool.
>>345353451
I might be remembering the mines wrong, but you could find a friend or some random fuck with the quest to group up with you to get it done instead of being an antisocial faggot. Now the game is setup so nearly everything is easily soloable.
>>345353671
To be fair to that guy, the early dungeon finder wasn't horrible the way I remember it.
It was basically just a billboard, like the Vindictus thing if I recall correctly.
New one is cancer though, we can agree on that,
>>345353671
>>345353926
See >>345340481
>>345353847
>but you could find a friend or some random fuck with the quest to group up with you to get it done instead of being an antisocial faggot.
Why would I when I could either skip it or solo it?
>Now the game is setup so nearly everything is easily soloable.
So what?
>>345353821
>aff
>watered down spriest
Not even close. More like the other way around. Fucking spriest doesn't even need to refresh their 2 dots.
I've mained Aff since MoP and the Legion version is actually growing on me (although I'll still always prefer the MoP version.)
>>345351213
Remove the debuff cap
I've never really understood why that was a thing. All it would really mean would be slightly higher DPS all around, wouldn't even really change what classes were viable. If you were to go back in time and actually change that shit you could give bosses more HP if you didn't want to make enrage timers too easy to get past.
Did you notice that ALL three new classes that blizzard added are melee dps classes, and all three of them are so highly specialized that they only make sense for a single expansion?
Why add a new class when there's clearly not enough ideas to go about for one?
What's the lore justification for monks to even exist past mop?
>>345353847
>tfw orders halls and artifacts are like a shitty imitation of what the game used to be
>>345354142
It wastes the main advantage MMOs actually have over other games, having a fuckton of players running around at once to do shit with. If you don't want that then whatever but don't act like faggot and pretend you don't understand why others miss that.
>>345330294
In vanilla, you ran out of quests before you finished leveling. So with that said, more quests were the Improvement, that you could fully level doing just quests and a few dungeons for upgrades.
>>345354258
No, I mean, affliction always had those subtle necromantic themes with "corruption" and death coil and life draining and the sort, vestiges of the scrapped necromancer class.
Then they took all of that out and gave it to death knights.
And what's left?
Some generic "uhh, it's shadow damage and some ghost magic I guess" bullshit. Boring.
>>345336107
AQ40 was unnerving to me in general, especially if you go back there on your own, so much much of it is just empty space with mobs that are spookier the closer you get to C'thun.
>>345354337
There were supposed to be monks in vanilla but it never worked out.
>>345354446
Literally artificial class flavor.
Who needs all these unique quest lines and items, let's just make a garrison recolor.
I don't think they could even add class flavor back into the game if they wanted, it's too streamlined.
Compare this
>Wow, this item has insane +stam and +shadow damage, totally designed for warlocks
To this
>This generic item has +stam and +int, like any other caster item, for any class
>>345354503
You can still group up if you want to despite the fact that it's soloable as well. Not to mention now that the quest item drops aren't shard and are reliable drops it's even better to do so than before.
If the reason why you can't group up now is because you aren't practically forced to then the problem lies within you, not in the game.
>>345354667
same with demon hunters in BC, Also necromancers were planned but they scrapped the idea and blended it in with death knights. I would have loved a straight necro class too
>>345354667
Monks should have been a priest talent tree.
Death knights should have been a paladin/warrior talent tree.
Demon hunters should have been a rogue talent tree.
>>345354819
>Wow I still haven't gotten this specific drop after farming this place for 10 months, this design is totally great!
>>345354540
Ok that I can understand.
>>345337429
>tfw Chris Metzen won't let the humans have anything nice
HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS! REMOVE ORC! REMOVE UNDEAD! MAKE LORDAERON LIVING AGAIN!
>>345331768
I mostly agree with you, but a lot of it had to do with Blizzard's insistence to create massive power creep.
>>345354142
Spoken like someone who's never played Vanilla. If you wanted to progress at a reasonable pace you had to team up with someone. The only way to clear certain areas/quests is by going in groups. A lot of quests were instance-related and you'd be stuck grinding a shitton to make up for what you'd potentially miss by not doing them.
>skipping quests
>in Vanilla
Yeah you never played it alright.
Also it's an MMORPG it's not meant to be soloable.
>>345336516
Really? I always left music on. I mean you often couldn't hear much of it over everyone sperging out in vent, but still.
>>345354939
>Monks should have been a priest talent tree.
u wot m8
>>345354939
Disc was supposed to be a melee tree, Inner Fire gave you armor and attack power for a reason.
>>345339071
He can start DL the pre-patch now though at least, better to get it out of the way.
>>345354949
It is.
>>345354848
nigga there was a demon hunter on the vanilla box.
>>345340474
Fucking this. Majority of the complaints towards Vanilla leveling come from players that were absolutely fucking retarded and suffered because of it.
>>345355140
When did Inner Fire ever give attack power? I only remember it being Armor until they added Spell Power to it in WotLK.
They kept on buffing Shadow Priests for no fucking reason. By the time ICC rolled around I was out-DPSing classes that I really shouldn't have been, shit was great.
>>345355136
It was planned for pre-alpha disc Priests.
This is why Inner Fire gave armor. It's also the reason why "of the Whale" gave Sta + Spr, since Spirit was intended as a damage mitigation stat instead of a mana regen one.
>>345355140
Disc seemed to be leaning that way, with talents like Pain Supression. Disc priests seemed to be the most monk-like.
I'm just miffed that every monk has to be a fucking "Confucius Say" Buddhist. Having Light-worshipping ascetics and dwarven/tauren runemasters would've been cool.
>>345355039
>Spoken like someone who's never played Vanilla.
ok
>If you wanted to progress at a reasonable pace you had to team up with someone.
How about no. Drop rates were awful and split between the group of people, if anything it could just slow you down.
>The only way to clear certain areas/quests is by going in groups
Literally depended on class.
> A lot of quests were instance-related
Nah. The most quests you'd do in instance would be Zul'farrak and Stratholme more or less.
Dead Mines if you were Alliance. But by no means they were that many.
>Yeah you never played it alright.
Ok
>Also it's an MMORPG it's not meant to be soloable.
Tell that to Runescape.
>>345355420
From the patch notes of 1.5.0.
>Inner Fire - Now stacks with other effects that increase attack power
>>345354667
There's a difference between a class archetype used by npcs and a class archetype for players to play as.
There needs to be a level of generic-ness to the class. Eg warriors being a tough guy with a sword, hunters being a ranger guy, rogues being a shifty guy, mage being any practitioner of magic, etc.
Whereas DKs, monks and demon hunters are very specific. As DK, you are pre-written to be THAT guy who was best buds with the lich king and broke free with other mary sues, as DH you are pre-written to be illidan's best friend, etc.
As a character, after the expansion where your class was introduced ends, you just sort of awkwardly wonder, "why am I here again? what am I doing?"
>>345355469
Well that's an extremely stupid idea. I can see melee-oriented priests working, but monks are, traditionally and lore-wise, a very different class.
>>345355559
The fuck are you talking about, you'd never step your ass in BFD or wailing caverns or uldaman without having all the quests unless you wanted to spend the next two levels grinding boars.
>>345354337
They probably shouldn't have made vanilla hunters a clusterfuck of
>Farstriders
>Dark Rangers
>Dwarven Riflemen
>Beast masters
>Troll shadow hunters
>Sentinels
>etc.
Now they have no way to introduce these roles as new classes.
>>345355669
Huh, either it was so long ago that I didn't remember that it had it in the first place or they removed it by the time I started playing. It definitely doesn't give attack power in later patches in Vanilla.
>>345356114
>i am an expert on vanilla, trust me, I played on nostalrius
>>345355873
>>345355559
Hell progressing past SM without doing all the wings/quests there was a fucking pain.
>>345355420
>When did Inner Fire ever give attack power?
It was that way in WC3. They clearly had plans for a "monkish" Discipline tree but the game was released before the skills and talents were done (lol Survival hunters).
>>345355873
Oh right, forgot WC and Uldaman. But BFD? Nah, can't even remember what it had for quests in Vanilla.
Most instances had like 1 quest to do in them and that wasn't the biggest boost ever.
>>345355559
>The most quests you'd do in instance would be Zul'farrak and Stratholme more or less.
You're so full of shit. Every dungeon has like 4 or 5 quests associated with it, you can usually do most of them besides the really cunty ones like "Get 20 Sapphires from BFD" in one or two runs. That's a massive chunk of EXP you'd be missing out on otherwise.
Stop talking out your ass if you don't have a clue.
>>345355780
Well it was cool and definitely something Priests need imo. Having 2 healing specs is ass, especially since the difference in them seems forced or it did during WotLK at least not sure how it is now.
>>345356167
No, I started playing on retail early in 2005. Never claimed to be an expert either, just surprised I didn't remember that. Go be a faggot somewhere else.
>>345356352
>1 quest
I can't think of one dungeon with less than 3.
Even then they provided much more exp than simply just grinding mobs outside + being more >fun
>>345356403
I think Disc felt so redundant because WoW revolves around the Tank x Healer X DPS holy trinity, so support specs (or even hybrid for that matter) can't exist.
It would've been cool for Disc priests to be a holy dmg caster at least.
>>345356352
Most instances had 4+ quests as long as you knew where to look.
>>345356352
Dungeons in classic were shit, yes.
>>345356114
There's some fun stuff buried in the patch notes.
>The Hunter Epic quest has had some of its Demonic Corrupters retuned.
>It should also be noted that Hunters that attempt to bypass the single player portion of the encounter by using another class to do their tasks will fail the quest in a most glorious fashion.
>>345356352
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Gnomeregan
>5 quests
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackfathom_Deeps_(original)
>5 alliance 9 horde quests
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackfathom_Deeps_(original)
>5 quests
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Shadowfang_Keep_(original)
>4 quests
Should I go on?
Lmao fucking pulling shit out of your ass, faggot.
I think WoW becoming shit is something people will absolutely never get over
>>345356624
Just let Disc be the full on support spec with increased shields and healing and have Holy be a damage + healing spec like it kinda was at one point in WotLK.
I remember doing HCs with just Power Word: Shield, Renew and Smite crit heals. It was honestly fun as fuck.
>>345356624
Well in Wrath it was better for main tank healing than Holy was, not by any significant margin though. And still probably worse at the job than a Holy Pally.
Still, I liked Disc way more than Holy since I liked making people invincible more than I liked playing health bar whack-a-mole. I'm glad it was at least viable for a little while before I stopped playing.
>>345336549
Its only me or Swamp Of sorrows is also looks like horde symbol?
>>345356403
Make them a typical battle priest in a medium-to-heavy armor and hammers, like in DnD. But why the fucking monks?
>>345356810
1 quest within a reasonable distance to the instance... his point stands.
>>345323798
what was there in Hyjal during vanilla?
>>345354667
Not having a necro on launch was a big disappointment for me.
With the amount they've stripped from warlocks they can make room for necro spells and morph them into a lock/necro hybrid.
This is how I would implement it (roughly).
>the warlock class is replaced with the "acolyte" class (which will be a sort of base class)
>this base class will have no spells that would indicate he is strictly either a warlock or necromancer
>he can choose between the affliction (dot damage) or shadow (kinda like destro but no fire) spec at lvl 15
>at a higher level he can choose another one of two specs - the demonology spec or the reanimation spec
>choosing demonology will obviously make him a warlock and choosing reanimation will make him a necromancer
>as a warlock he will have access to demon minions and fire spells
>as a necromancer he will have access to undead minions and poison (or maybe even frost) spells
>so as a lock the rotation will be something like shadowbolt, incinerate while holding dots up and his demon attacking
>as a necromancer it will be something like shadowbolt, poisonbolt, holding up dots while having the undead minion attacking
They will obviously be unique and not just reskins of each. I think its a good comprimise if you want a necromancer class in the game anyway...
>>345356881
It was the defining multiplayer video game experience of our time. And it didn't go out in a blaze of glory, it just turned to shit slowly.
Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
>>345357045
nothing
it was just there as a placeholder, it looks exactly the same as the Battle of Mount Hyjal raid
>>345356403
>>345356624
Probably the best solution is to just have 2 specs from the get-go. Maybe Blizz will be tempted to delete specs some day.
>>345356881
I will tell my unborn children about it. I'll never let Blizzard live through this shit.
RIP Blizzard North
>>345357034
>within a reasonable distance
Wow, QQ much.
You want an NPC standing right next to the entrance with 10 quests or something? You want him to wipe your ass and warm your milk as well?
Fucking retail babies.
>>345332664
>Not a massive disappointment
Please. Indie shit aside it was boring amd never went any where. Also had zero ties to the zones it was connected to, massive fucking disappointment. Just like Grim Batol and the neurbian place in wotlk
>>345357045
The World Tree and Archimonde's skeleton.
>>345357045
Just an empty, unused zone at the time.
There's plenty of videos of people sneaking on all over the internet.
>>345357027
See that would've been fucking cool.
Cloth armor and Two-handed maces. God fuck I want this.
>>345357140
The raid changed a few things, like half the original zone was inaccessible in the raid.. The original Hyjal had a bunch of weird craters and Archimonde's corpse was hanging off the tree but there were no mobs or buildings anywhere except a couple ruins. There was also a copy of Onyxia's cave in it.
>>345354337
>What's the lore justification for monks to even exist past mop?
Same reason that allows Orc Mages, Dwarf Mages, Warlocks, Shamans, and every other race combination: people from newly discovered/befriended factions being willing to train new adventurers.
>>345356810
I've forgotten some of them (such as entrance quests at RFK & RFD) but some of them were never done like escort quests in RFD and RFK.
And I'm sure I've missed plenty of them since most of the quests like >>345357034 said are scattered who knows fucking where.
For places like Maraudon I can't I can think of any quest but the staff quest. Dire Maul I never even visited.
Then there are quests like in BRD that take you outside from BRD to fucking Winterspring of all places.
>>345357287
If you don't have any counter argument as to why quests should require 30 minutes of walking then don't respond. You are just embarrassing and childish with these tantrums.
>>345357027
They were a combination of religious western monks(hence being part of the priest class) and fantasy fist-things-to-death monks.
>>345357356
I played some shitty Korean grindfest MMO that had Clerics like that, I forget the game though.
For group content you'd stand right up next to the tanks spamming your one attack move (that did weirdly high DPS and a long stun) while healing everyone. Good times.
>>345357034
When they started catering to people like this, WoW went to shit.
>>345357178
It would solve a shitton of problems yeah, but I don't think people would like the lack of choice. Unless they made more classes to make up for it.
Also remember racials? A shame they never further developed those.
>>345357459
It feels contrived.
>>345357513
>Dire Maul I never even visited.
You never visited one of the endgame vanilla dungeons with all the pre-raid loot?
Did you start playing a day before BC was launched or something?
>>345356648
I just remember pounding my head against the wall trying to do an Emp run of BRD back in vanilla till I finally had that one perfect run where I actually got an Ironfoe off of him. So many wipes in the Lyceum though, I was a terrible player, probably am pretty shit still in all honesty.Of course I was a paladin who had no idea how to play his class and thought I could somehow do more damage with it's proc along with being able to have more survivability. I didn't even really take the time to understand my seals till a friend explained it to me when I started raiding
>>345357045
World Tree with Archimonde's skelly, a road that ends with a construction roadblocks saying "Blizzard Construction Co." There was also a cave that's a perfect copy of Onyxia's Lair, and a night elf ruin with a broken bridge you could jump off to fall into Felwood. Or slowfall halfway to Teldrassil.
>>345351778
You're precisely the reason people do that.
>>345357287
It's fucking stupid design when you get some quests from random places like getting quest to kill a boss in RFD from a remote location of a capital city?
Pretty sure I saw someone wearing one of the quest rewards and looking where they got it and only then finding out the quest location for that one.
Plenty of quests were behind quest chains as well. Quest chains that you might never even complete.
>>345357717
>You never visited one of the endgame vanilla dungeons with all the pre-raid loot?
No because I was a fucking kid who just explored the world and made mad dosh in un'goro crater giving no shit about anything but that sexy T0 when it came to loot.
>>345357515
>why quests should require [...] walking
We've come to the point where this is an unironic statement.
You ever read up the definition of "quest" at the dictionary?
>>345357775
Hyjal also had the highest point on the continent and if you walljumped up to it you could slowfall really far.
>>345357415
i remember blinking to get in before they ruined that
dont remember seeing archimonde corpse or that onyixia cave ,i should have a better memory
>>345357923
The mountain peak with the crashed gnome plane, right?
>>345357513
Dire Maul off the top of my head.
>gems quest on purple side
>Theradras quest
>Zaetar's quest after killing Theradras
>Scepter quest
And I'm pretty sure I'm missing a couple.
>>345357717
Not him, but I just got lucky in the fact I was carried in my first raids and geared up because they needed healers for MC/BWL at the time, which was early 2006 after I started playing in December 2005.
>>345357879
>from random places like getting quest to kill a boss in RFD from a remote location of a capital city?
It wasn't random. You just skipped the quest text.
>>345357908
Like I said, if you can't come up with a reason to justify it, don't respond.
>>345358005
By DireMaul I mean Maraudon.
>>345358004
Don't specifically remember which mountain peak it was but it might have been.
>>345357515
>Do quests in other zones
>Some chains eventually lead you to a dungeon
>Do the dungeon when you have 3-4 quests for it and are in its level range
It's not like this shit's on a time limit after you pick the quest up, why do you need all the questgivers to be right outside the door?
>>345358068
-7/10
>>345358028
It wasn't a quest chain dude. It began there. How would I know to go to Cathedral Ward as alliance at specific level to get that specific quest?
In that sense, it is random.
>>345358184
Still no response?
You "enjoy" walking to the questgiver for half an hour while I actually play the game.
>>345358008
Ok, I'll do your homework for you.
quest
kwest/
noun
noun: quest; plural noun: quests
1.
a long or arduous search for something.
"the quest for a reliable vaccine has intensified"
synonyms: search, hunt
"their quest for her killer"
(in medieval romance) an expedition made by a knight to accomplish a prescribed task.
synonyms: expedition, journey, voyage, trek, travels, odyssey, adventure, exploration, search; More
crusade, mission, pilgrimage;
informalHoly Grail
"Sir Galahad's quest"
verb
verb: quest; 3rd person present: quests; past tense: quested; past participle: quested; gerund or present participle: questing
1.
search for something.
"he was a real scientist, questing after truth"
>a long or arduous search for something.
>a long or arduous search for something.
>a long or arduous search for something.
>a long or arduous search for something.
>a long or arduous search for something.
Kill yourself, you nigger.
>>345339938
I love the goblins and I love that shit
That's a cute little bit of nature you have there elves
would be ashamed if we fucked it in its ass
I don't think they're coming back.
After all those years.
Even after I quit this game over 6 years ago
I still hear the voices.
The voices. They just won't stop.
"BLESSING OF KINGS" "I NEED BLESSING OF KINGS" "WHERE ARE THE BLESSINGS!?" "BLESSINGS" BLEEEESSSIIIINNGS"
Will I ever be free of them?
>>345357879
See there you go spouting bullshit again. Vanilla was fucking quest-starved if anything. If you didn't complete a quest chain you were most likely a kid or a fucking imbecile. You'd almost always get all the quests either just outside the dungeon or in the nearest town. Occasionally you'd start a dungeon chain in a capital city, but you should be visiting those anyways since it's a fucking RPG.
>>345358282
I think you replied to the wrong person.
>>345358336
They're bringing this back in Legion. :^)
>>345354949
It was fine, because the game hadn't devolved into min-max mode, and everything that was put in wasn't to continue the gear treadmill.
>>345358175
>It's not like this shit's on a time limit after you pick the quest up, why do you need all the questgivers to be right outside the door?
How do you know which quest givers lead to those good quests?
That's the bigger problem there.
You could easily think you got the quests, then go to the instance and oops, you didn't have half of the quests because you didn't know where to get them.
>>345358282
Quests in WoW are fetch quests. In Vanilla it was an arduous search for bear asses. Not enjoyable.
>>345358375
I guess.
>>345341183
Warcraft 1 was designed to be a Warhammer game but they pulled out because they wanted complete control of the game and the IP it used so they recycled all the Warhammer assets and made Warcraft.
>>345358336
They've removed all stat buffs from all classes EXCEPT for Retribution Paladins who will be able to maintain 3 kinds of blessings on 3 players at any one time.
>>345358393
>min-max mode
Good luck trying to raid as anything "sub-optimal" even in BC. Poor moonkins, and that's just starting.
>>345358438
Maybe you should do the dungeon several times or something.
It's not like dungeons dropped loot that made your character more powerful and made it easier to level or anything.
o u can just send some heirloom and xp potions from ur main dood, that's what i do xD
>>345358262
Anon you're supposed to try.
>>345358252
I never said vanilla quests were well placed, I mentioned that you're bad at reading quest text. Sure the place might feel random but it wasn't as lolrandum as you're making it out to be.
>>345358374
>Vanilla was fucking quest-starved if anything
Not everywhere. 35-40, sure. Tanaris was great to get to. 40-50 was plentiful opportunities as was 50-60.
> If you didn't complete a quest chain you were most likely a kid or a fucking imbecile
Or because I wanted to move on to the next zone?
>Occasionally you'd start a dungeon chain in a capital city, but you should be visiting those anyways since it's a fucking RPG.
But there are SEVERAL capital cities with SEVERAL wards with many places you don't need to go as your class.
>>345358438
>How do you know which quest givers lead to those good quests?
You play the game. Worst case if you find a quest after that you REALLY want to do, you can do the dungeon again.
If you don't have the quests you probably won't even know where an instance is unless you wander around and stumble across the portal. Especially when a lot of dungeon entrances were hidden in caves and shit.
>>345358561
>Getting into a raid undergeared and speccing how you want was difficult in vanilla
No
>>345358547
>you will never be able to buff a random player then they thank you by buffing you back
The game has never been better!
>>345358561
Boomkins and several other specs like Disc priests had massive problems in Vanilla and BC beyond what "min-maxing" could fix.
>>345358573
>Maybe you should do the dungeon several times or something.
When gathering up people for the damn dungeon takes hour+? No thanks.
>o u can just send some heirloom and xp potions from ur main dood, that's what i do xD
Haha funny.
>>345358574
> I mentioned that you're bad at reading quest text.
And like I said, it was random in that sense that unless you were paladin or priest you'd have no reason to visit that damn place so for any other race than human and any other race, it IS random.
>>345345562
No, that's retarded. YOU didnt singlehandedly do it.
Blizzard fucked up deciding it was the SAME guy in a group of 20 that beat all the big guys. No, the raids should represent how EVERY PLAYER contributed to the final battle lorewise and everyone did it in the capacity of a grunt, but for gameplay and technical reasons you just do it with your small group.
>>345358891
> YOU didnt singlehandedly do it
Hence why raids refers to you people as plural, outside when you're alone singular.
>>345358868
Do you not know there were quests to take you back to those locations? You'd see the gray question marks and make a.mental.note because how long it took to level.
>>345358720
>speccing how you want
Doesn't mean much when entire fucking talent trees are so poor at their job, you can't do your job properly. Hell even resto druids were just mana batteries for the real healers.
>>345345562
>be 12 year old
>make wow account
>boost to 100 skipping all content the game has offered in the last ten years
COMMANDER, COME QUICK, IT YOUR DESTINY TO SAVE US ALL, YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE AFTER ALL! YOU HAVE PROVEN YOURSELF BEYOND WORTH!!!
>>345358667
>Or because I wanted to move on to the next zone?
So ADHD then? Why would you move on before clearing the area. 90% of all the quest givers were concentrated in hubs with the last 10% being near questing areas or given by items dropped by quest-related mobs.
If you missed anything it's your own fault, not the game's.
>But there are SEVERAL capital cities with SEVERAL wards with many places you don't need to go as your class.
And you'd almost NEVER be sent on a wild goose chase. Class specific wards were just that most of the time, fucking class specific. Once in a blue moon there'd be a 'neutral' NPC who'd give out a quest to whoever, but other than that they were fucking barren.
Besides someone else already pointed it out, if you didn't know where to go it's because you didn't read the fucking quest text. Don't worry I know, I played from 1-60 and then again from 1-70 with people who didn't, and every time I had to fucking tell them what to do or where to go.
>>345357062
I'd rather they make the necromancer spec purely focus on summoning creatures.
Like have 100% of your damage output come from your minions. Obviously they'd have to make you slightly weaker as a result, but then have some spells that bind you to your minions, making you essentially invincible until your minions die (upon which time you die instantly).
So essentially your role becomes buffing/healing/summoning.
>>345359214
>Hell even resto druids were just mana batteries for the real healers.
Exactly. You could lose 7 people and be fine. I still think the 40 man was designed to let people die
>>345345562
You are the chosen one. It's why you get returned to life if you die.
No other character in the game has that.
>>345359341
>So ADHD then? Why would you move on before clearing the area.
Why would I stay around in a zone that was boring or one that I have overleveled?
>>345359214
It's like how no one used Pallies for anything but healers, since Prot and Ret never had enough mana to do anything.
You might've brought a single Shadow Priest so their Shadow Weaving can boost your raid's Shadowbolt spammers, but they're still going to spend half of every boss OOM and using a fucking wand for damage.
>>345359357
I guess the issue with Necromancers is that you'll need to provide adds for each fight if you design the class wrong.
>>345359341
>if you didn't know where to go it's because you didn't read the fucking quest text.
How the fuck do I know that a quest STARTS in Cathedral Ward when it's the FIRST quest to begin with? WHAT FUCKING QUEST TEXT DID I MISS?
![VarianWrynnKingofStormwind[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MYhVhLh.jpg "VarianWrynnKingofStormwind[1]")
