What the fuck was the gaming community thinking back then when these games were being hated on? Coincidentally they are all sequels and have a setting where the ocean plays a big part.I'm 19 so I honestly wouldn't know lolI don't blame people for hating FFX though. I like that game, but it's pretty fucking weird
B-bumpu
>>345081092
Sunshine was rushed and wonky.
I don't want to trigger some weeaboo today so I'll refrain from talking about FFX.
>>345081417
I think 64 is just as wonky, but I suppose it has more of an excuse being the first of it's kind.
Wind Waker was sadly hated because fans of the series were still high on how dark and 'mature' the last two releases of zelda had been. Wind Waker was a risky decision and the fact that it could of ended the franchise because of how little bank it made really shows just how revered many were to it.
These days people apreciate what it was, but its easy to seen why people were so brutal towards it, getting ocarina of time, a mature title for the time, majora's mask basically the same and then the teaser at space world 2000 + soul caliber 2. I think nintend did a shitty job at easing people into wind wakers art style since most link models used in the early 2000's were ocarina of time influenced
>>345081092
MGS 2 and FFX because limited mouvement and too much cinematics.
Mario Sunshine and Zelda Wind Waker because Nintendo braindead fans are stuck in the anal stage forever.
>>345081092
Hate for 3 of those games are postmortem. WW was the only one people shat on before it came out, but loved it once they played it
Well FFX's reputation only gets worse over time, as it's the one that started the downfall of the series.
And I agree, people only like it because they were into dawson's creek tier romance when they first played it
>>345081092
FFX = no world map, no real exploration, very far from a classic FF-Game. Loved it still tho.
never played mario sunshine.
mgs2 = was never hated except for the raiden thing, everyone wanted snake.
WW: too cartoonish and colorful, everyone expected something more dark and mature. i loved it.
>>345081092
I was there, and the hate is mostly exaggerated.
X was mostly liked, it was just 7 fanboys who wanted something more dark, edgy, and brooding. X was too bright.
Sunshine was very well received, the people that disliked the Fludd and setting were in the extreme minority. IT wasn't until much later when people got nostalgia goggles and think 64 is the be all end all best 3d Mario game, these same people will say Galaxy is "trash".
Wind Waker was hated for the same reason of OoT. People wanted something darker, and more mature, probably just featuring Adult Link. Instead got cartoon cell shaded kid link in bright location. However those that disliked the change in direction played the game anyway, and liked it, though most would say not as much as OoT. TP of course would be the exact game these people wanted, myself being one of them, though I also love WW.
MGS2 was really because removing Snake was a slap to both fans, and somewhat newcomers. The problem with Raiden is he is a pretty anime boy, and is inexperienced, and says some really stupid things [did you say nerd?]. However most still found some enjoyment from the cooler aspects of the game, this one is understandable why people disliked it. Much like WW/TP, MGS3 would be the game that fans wanted.
In hindsight, many fans now love MGS2 and WW. SS and X is still mixed, though I think that's more to do with the fact that those games did have minor problems.
Most complaints about Sunshine was about only having 7 levels. Nevermind every stage had 8 shines plus red coin switches in the secret levels.
All 10/10 games.
Not even nostalgia, played them recently for the first time
>>345082534
A correction
>WW hated hated for the same reason of X
And people also disliked X because of the Main Character looking ridiculous, and being a goofball, instead of the brooding badass cloud.
These are all part of my favourite games, am I a shitter?
>>345081092
Top 2 are the worst of their respective series.
The problem with both Sunshine and Windwaker is they were clearly not finished. Unfortunate as they both had quite a lot of potential.
People are still too dumb to get MGS2.
I don't remember a whole lot of hate for FF10 at the time and I should know because I have hated it since then and I can only be friends with people who understand what a tragedy that game was.
>>345081092
>FFX
I thought it was always pretty loved, if anything people didn't like the grid system
>Sunshine
I don't know if it was hated on but I guess people weren't a fan of F.L.U.D.D. and wrote it off as a gimmick and I think people preferred 64's variety and in general
>MGS2
Taking out Solid Snake came out of nowhere, people wanted to be Snake and Raiden had a shaky reception
>WW
cel-shaded + kid
>>345082660
Yes
>>345083186
Let me tell you one more thing. All these games are remembered almost the opposite of what they were when they came out. Internet usually does this and it's usually based on factors beyond the game's actual quality.
>>345082084
What the fuck are you saying, nigga? MGS2 played exactly like MGS1
Final Fantasy X is pretty good but not as good as the classics.
Super Mario Sunshine is good but fairly disappointing compared to the previous titles.
MGS 2 is just completely disappointing, even without taking Raiden into account. It's a really boring game.
Wind Waker is a masterpiece and I've stood for it being one of the best Zelda games ever since it came out.
>>345081092
We wanted a true sequel to FF7, Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, and Metal Gear Solid 2. We got none of those.
>>345084187
Wind Waker is my favorite too, but it's no masterpiece, there are defineley so flaws such as the triforce charts. I already know to do the savage labrynth if I don't have enough rupees, but if you on someone's first play through you may get pissed.
Plus people who are now just playing the game in the most recent years probably neglect exploring any of the islands, which is half of the point of the game, and then call the sailing boring.
>>345082534
>X was mostly liked, it was just 7 fanboys who wanted something more dark, edgy, and brooding. X was too bright.
X is literally about a cycle of death, with summoners constantly dying
How is it too bright?
>>345081092
MGS2 still deserves it for its teen girl pandering protagonist and that awful, awful jack/rose subplot, although it's still a great game despite this.
>>345084754
>all games must pander exclusive to my manly Hollywood fantasy
>>345082534
Yeah I'm sure it being linear as fuck, having almost no exploration when compared to its predecessors and being way too cutscene heavy (made worse by the fact that you couldn't even skip the cutscenes) had nothing to do with it.
>>345085390
Calling a game linear is pretty much Godwin's Law applied to video games
Super Mario Sunshine is still bad.
>>345085550
It becomes a real problem when you're confined to narrow hallways from beginning to end. Which is what happened in FFX.
>>345085681
And?
You're limited in every game, complaining about not having padding is dumb
>>345081092
Wind Waker was great, and better than the extremely overrated Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.
I do agree FFX sucked though, both back then and today.
>>345085836
I would still prefer to explore wide open areas instead of being confined to a straight line, even if both options are linear.
>>345081092
Because they weren't what people got with the game before.
>MGS2
No Snake! Raiden isn't the hero from other games!
>WW
Cartoony! Other Zeldas weren't cartoony!
>Sunshine
Not muh 64 gameplay!
>FFX
I didn't know people hated it at the time. Thought the hate came later.
>>345081092
What happened is what's happening to KOWASHITAI in all irony.
>>345081092
FFX felt too much like you were being railroaded through a overlong movie and the voice acting was pretty lame. At least the older FFs gave a better illusion of being games.
Super Mario Sunshine removed tons of Mario's moves and replaced them with FLUDD which was interesting but I'd just prefer Mario's own movies. Also all the levels were based around beach themes which was a bit reptitive.
MGS2 had lousy characters, worse dialog than the original, more overt science fiction crap, and a twist ending that was far too self indulgent.
Wind Waker basically changed the things people wanted to stay the same after OoT (the realistic artstyle) and yet kept the same what people wanted freshened up (the gameplay).
It's crazy how many people were too stupid to understand MGS2, it's not even trying to be subtle
How come Wind Waker was never ported to 3DS? Or Twilight Princess for that matter?
>>345086359
Half the hate doesn't come from people being too stupid to understand it, it's people understanding it and promptly realizing Kojima was just being a troll instead of trying to make a great game.
>>345086623
>Kojima was just being a troll
So you didn't get it, gotcha
>>345086684
>He didn't like "Kojima's big ruse: The Game", that means he didn't understand it
0/10
>>345081092
Sunshine was the only good game and nobody hated it. The rest sucked ass though.
>>345086786
If you think that the point of the game was to "troll" then yeah, you didn't get it
>>345081092
FFX has and always will be shit IMO. The only thing salvageable is the battle system and the summon mechanic.
I thought Super Mario Sunshine was the shit and bought the NGC just for it initially. I don't play platformers much anymore but it still holds find memories.
Didn't play MGS2 until recently but is a fantastic 2D to 3D transition of the old Metal Gear titles. Controls seem a bit strange but still enjoyable.
I've always enjoyed Wind Waiku though that damn Deku sapling mini game mate me rage every time. Haven't tried out the HD edition yet
>>345086359
>It's crazy how many people were too stupid to understand MGS2
The women who translated MGS2 into English and holds a Harvard degree literally said that MGS2 has absolutely no intellectual depth and is little more than a collection of stolen properties.
>>345087012
She's probably just vagina-mad about Koji
>>345081092
I liked FFX back then but it's impossible to enjoy when replaying now. At least MGS2 lets me skip the cutscenes. I never got the hate for Wind Waker though, Zelda was always a kiddy franchise.
>>345087012
>I'm going to blindly trust this person because they went to harvard, that means they're so much more smarter than me
>>345087012
It's funny because she (Agness Kaku) got into a fight with the guy who interviewed her (John Schizopancake from Hardcore Gaming 101) when she posted confidential documents on fucking twitter.
>>345085858
>MM
>overrated
Whoa there, buddy.
>>345082263
>dawson's creek tier romance
This is not /tv/
We dont speak of james vanderbeak here.
>>345081092
Dunno, all my friends loved FFX and only saw hate about the game lately on taiwanese imageboards, same with Sunshine.
As for MGS2, yeah me and my friends didn't like it as much, and WW well obviously the different artstyle had something to do with it.
>>345081092
Keep in mind most of the criticisms of FFX are regurgitated opinions of a dude with bipolar disorder who can't play Fallout 2 for shit.
>>345086623
But MGS2 is a great, well-designed game regardless. He wasn't merely "trolling" anyway, though I think withholding Raiden from the promotional material was unnecessary.
>>345088090
Did he ever apologize for that review?
I know he gave 8 one.
>>345088090
I have never once in my life watched Spoony but still found the game to be mostly shit.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
People hated Wind Waker because instead of being more challenging, it was the easiest video game ever made, thus alienating everyone who had played a game prior to it.
>>345081092
All masterpieces, at least compared to today's trash. We didn't understand what we had...
>>345088838
Name the huge flaws that aren't a lack of an overworld and Tidus' pants.
>>345089548
Meg Ryan's twin sister
>>345081092
We were spoiled. That and console wars were still a thing since every console was actually worth owning
>>345088835
Holy shit, did he give an apology for VIII?
>>345089548
I already stated earlier in the thread that I liked the combat system and summon mechanic so it's not the "gameplay" per say
>bland visual design
>uninteresting characters
>bad voice acting even for its time
>uninteresting atmosphere
>ugly locations
>virtually no lore
>bare bones enemy design
>unchallenging/no-strategy-required boss fights
>>345090234
(You)
>>345090312
He asked and I replied, no need for baiting or being mad.
>>345090312
Good response dumbfuck, you sure showed that guy who actually provided valid opinions
>>345081092
Seems like standards were much higher back then than now.
Comparing these games to what's been coming out lately makes them as if they're a gift from some divinity.
>>345082035
Honestly though, the current love of Wind Waker kinda upsets me because it's clear people only like it for the graphics, music and atmosphere NOW.
The game has meh dungeons and sailing is awful.
I still maintain that FF10 is the last great FF game. Despite the lack of a worldmap, the locations still allow a good amount of exploration and has the airship to simulate a world map experience.
>>345090234
>bland visual designs
>virtually no lore
Are you serious?
>>345088835
No he still hates it last time I checked.
>>345090138
Yes XIII was so bad it made him appreciate VIII more.
>>345090234
>bland visual design
>ugly locations
>bare bones enemy design
X had many problems but the visuals were not one of them.
>virtually no lore
This is just flat out bullshit. X had plenty of world building and history. Most of the problems come from the main plot itself.
>unchallenging/no-strategy-required boss fights
Welcome to Final Fantasy.
>>345081092
I would have liked MGS2 more if it wasn't so self-important.
FFX had great combat, graphics and music, everything ranged from meh to awful.
Never played Super Mario Sunshine.
Wind Waker's sailing was cool at first but got old after a while. I gave up at the Tri Force hunt.
>>345090451
No he didn't, he spouted a bunch of untrue bullshit
>>345094958
Stop being assmad 10babby
>>345081092
they have the most obnoxious fans
>>345081092
Because at the time they were all follow ups of very successful and popular games, but each had jarring changes added to them
>FFX
No world map
>Mario Sunshine
Legitimately not a good game
>MGS2
Raiden
>Wind Waker
Toon link
>>345084310
>wanting rehashes instead of originality.
>>345081092
The Big Shell is boring.
>>345081092
Those are all Japanese games, that's why the ocean is featured in all of them.
The reason they were hated on is because the were AAA (relative to the time) games that dared to be experimental in regards to what fans expected from the series. For all the whining we do about games being generic and derivative these days, we kinda deserve it for shitting on unique games back when we used to get them on a regular basis.
>>345083448
>FFX
Very well received, regarded as weird garbage now
>Super Mario Sunshine
Well received, regarded as wonky and the weakest 3D console Mario now
>MGS2
Tons of hate for not featuring Snake beyond the demo portions, plot was laughed out of the room. Considered ahead of its time and a strong contender for peak of the series now.
>Wind Waker
Went from "cartoon Zelda? HA" to "fuck this game, I want muh grimdark OOT/MM Link" to "hey, this was actually really really good!" to "eh, it actually was good but also kind of overrated".
>>345084106
>MGS2 played exactly like MGS1
u wot m8
How, seriously, HOW can people like Final Fantasy X? The dungeons were literally, L I T E R A L L Y a line. The most insulting was when one section was literally a straight fucking line. How can people accept this? The sphere grid system is amazing, and so is the OST, but fuck that shit when the dungeons are so fucking bland. Seriously, one line. Anyone who loves FFX should kill himself.
>>345081092
I'm pretty sure almost everyone loved FFX at release but have only started to notice it's flaws in hindsight. Still a good game though.
>>345098952
If you really wanted to b8 you should have said it's better than the Tanker.
>>345081092
FFX - lack of engaging characters/plot. The fully voiced aspect of the game was a huge thing at the time and was fucking awful. Just watch the laughing scene and try not to cringe. Also no compelling villain past Seymour.
SSMS - fairly well received actually. Personally hated the fludd (as a "character" and mechanic), awful voicing, and stripped down actions/jumps from SM64. Gameplay progress is literally dependent on cleaning shit up in the game...
MGS2- Taking Snake out of the drivers seat. No one knew of Raiden's existence til this thing landed. Not nearly as intereting as Snake. Annoying gf as help. Boring structure of Big Shell. One villain is a literal Vampire and is called Vamp. Another is a mopey emo. The inspiration was lacking and many people were left baffled by the sharp left turn that happens late in the game.
WW- literally cause it's cel shaded. No one was expecting it given the portrayals of the series leading into it. I don't think any of the images at the time did it any justice. At launch there wasn't a strong video presence on the internet. When I played it at a friend's house my skepticism was washed away. There are mechanics that should've been revised (wind changing all the time to sail, triforce hunt's tediousness).
>>345084310
You wanted Mario 65? You eat glue, son?
>>345084310
>we
>>345101235
Nobody played FFX for the dungeons dum dum
>>345081092
Can't say I hated MGS2 but after playing Snake Eater I can't go back to it.
>>345105025
I'm sorry to hear that.
>>345095051
Except saying there's no lore is an outright lie you retard
>>345082534
but Galaxy IS trash
>>345103707
>Just watch the laughing scene and try not to cringe. Also no compelling villain past Seymour.
idiot confirmed
>>345103707
>and stripped down actions/jumps from SM64
What the fuck are you talking about? Mario has an ass load more moves/jumps compared to SM64.
>>345081092
All patrician games of true philosophers atheists and pot smokers
>>345081092
X is the best Final Fantasy
Sunshine is the worst 3D Mario not including the atrocity that is 3D World, but still fun
Metal Gear Solid 2 is the best Metal Gear, arguably better than the 1st but it's close
Wind Waker is like middle of the road Zelda. Not the best but not the worst. In terms of 3D ones it's better than SS and MM but not as good as TP and OoTI always noticed that WWfags are huge MGS3fags, as well as being Earthboundfags. Is this accurate?
>>345081092
Mario Sunshine is not that good though. Okay at its best. I'd say Mario 64 is much better in every regard.
WW was unfinished and had a terrible pacing near the end. Very great gameplay, graphics and OST.
MGS2 story was a shitty, convoluted mess. Gameplay is gorgeous.
Final Fantasy X drastically changed the franchise formula from a traditional RPG to an interactive movie with RPG battles. The linearity still hurts but it's a great game after all.
>>345081530
No, it's not. It still holds up today pretty well, it aged like a tasty wine.
Sunshine has enough GAMEPLAY, DESIGN and CONTROL problems that cannot simply be overlooked.
>>345105718
as a true atheist philosopher who enjoys some weed every once in a while i can confirm this
>>345103707
>lack of engaging characters/plot
So nothing new for the series then
>>345081092
>Sunshine
Some people didn't like the water thing. I don't know what else people could've hated on, this was the best Mario game at the time and still is to this day.
>Wind Waker
Very different from previous installments and the kid-friendlyness triggered some people.
I don't give a shit about the other two.
Wind Waker broke the world record of preorders at the time. Unheard of in a console that was in last place.
How would you know if they were hated on or not you welp? All you have is /v/'s hearsay and sites that collected negativity. You could do THE SAME THING today by collecting all the Breath of the Wild jelly posts from here and Neogaf. WOW, MUCH ANGRY, VERY HATE.
Lurk moar OP. You're still too young to be on /v/
>>345085550
>Godwin's Law
Holy shit this is accurate
>>345106394
>wind waker
>has the ending boss strike transition into a rolling jump stab to the skull
>Zelda gets bitch slapped for shooting arrows
>Little sister is kidnapped right in front of you
>Link is hit in by a weird fairy
>Zelda gets bitch slapped for shooting arrows
People complained about the graphics. If that shit was made to look like OoT or TP, they would be singing it's praises till the endo of time, bitching about sailing all the while.
>>345106687
>>345085550
You are both Straw Men incarnate applied to video games.
Linearity/nonlinearity is a fundamental part of video games right from the beginning with Donkey Kong, then Mario Bros. then Super Mario Bros., until finally Zelda opened the floodgates. If it weren't for nonlinearity you wouldn't be playing video games right now because the industry would be appropriately lifeless like your parents think it is.
>>345106330
X actually is pretty engaging but derails into standard FF tropes mid part.
>>345107108
>Linearity is bad meme
>Literally defending bad game design and padding because of the illusion of exploration
>Pretending it's impossible to explore a linear setting
You people are insane
>>345107175
Agreed, but people like to pretend the others games aren't just as guilty if not more so
>>345100559
>Wind Waker
>experimental
Wew lad
>Final Fantasy X
It was the XIII of its era. They removed the world map, exploration, and towns, and a lot of people wanted the classic ATB system. The wacky clothes also turned a lot of people off, and the voice acting was terrible, even for the time.
>Super Mario Sunshine
Super Mario 64 revolutionized gaming by being the first competent open-ended 3D platformer, and people were still demanding those types of games. They wanted SM64-2, with more courses and more variety in the environments. Instead they got an entire game of tropical levels and less courses than before, with a gimmicky watergun instead of more moves for Mario. Couple this with the fact that the GameCube was the first Nintendo system not to launch with a Mario platformer, and at the time it was like Nintendo was just rubbing salt in people's wounds. They wanted the next step in platformers, as every Mario previously had brought; instead they got Mario 64 with less variety and a super soaker.
>Metal Gear Solid 2
MGS1 set a new standard for "cinematic experiences" in video games and was one of the first games where you really felt like you were playing a movie. Solid Snake was a witty, suave action hero that everyone wanted to be. The game was advertized with Solid Snake right up until release, when it pulled the classic bait-and-switch and gave you Raiden, a whiny pretty-boy who looked like an N-Sync reject that no one liked.
The bosses are way too out there and nowhere near as cool as Foxhound. Instead of a telekinetic soldier driven mad by his own powers, we got a fatass on rollerskates. Instead of a sexy, deadly sniper assassin, we got a B-movie vampire. The objectives are no longer cool shit like sneaking through a base, they're disarming bombs that are tediously placed, shooting down mines and drones, and a timed underwater escort mission.
>>345107385
wew lad that you're dumb enough to think it's not.
>>345107685
Making Mario into an RPG is experimental. Making Metroid into a first person shooter is experimental.
Making OoT-but-on-a-boat is not.
>>345107537
The twist at the end almost makes the suffering of going through the rest of the game worth it, but even that can't redeem how horrible the gameplay is, and the fact that you aren't supposed to like Raiden doesn't make playing as him any more enjoyable. Kojima making the player suffer through an unenjoyable game in order to use that to his advantage at the end may have been artistically commendable, but as a video game, MGS2 is thoroughly unpleasant to play.
>The Wind Waker
People went batshit crazy for Ocarina of Time and loved it to pieces. They loved playing as Adult Link and traveling through a Hyrule that felt like it had a dark past and history, as hinted at in dialogue throughout the game. When Majora's Mask came out, many were disappointed that the focus shifted from dungeons to sidequests and NPCs, but people loved that MM managed to be even darker than the original thematically and aesthetically. This trend of grounded fantasy worlds with a dark history lurking beneath the surface seemed set to continue due to the Space World demo Nintendo showed of an Adult, Ocarina of Time style Link fighting Ganondorf.
Then they showed off Wind Waker.
The graphics, to many, looked even worse than the N64 games, due to a complete lack of realism. Gone were the believable fantasy worlds of Hyrule and Termina, and here was the exagerrated, oversaturated, flat-looking Great Sea. The dark tone of the previous games was brightened up considerably, and there was a common perception that Nintendo was making the franchise appeal more to kids, as hinted at through comments from Miyamoto himself.
>>345108178
When the game finally released, much of the Great Sea was completely empty, and sailing from one silo of fun gameplay to the next on this vast sea of nothingness took far too long. Once you hit the halfway point the game begins to feel downright unfinished, sending you on a fetch quest across that empty overworld for an arbitrary number of shards instead of treating you to the kind of advanced late-game dungeons you'd be going through in prior Zelda games by this point.
Wind Waker wasn't what anyone wanted or expected, and was an unfinished, deeply flawed game that failed to even be in the ballpark of people's expectations for the next step in the Zelda series.
Why the fuck do/did people like ATB anyways? It was just annoying.
>>345082084
>limited mouvement
what? movement was improved from MGS to SOL
>>345108376
ATB in general is terrible. It is inherently worse than real time or full turn based, and encourages mindless button mashing
>>345108376
The old games had moments of great narrative like when that spiky hair man ended up in a wheelchair, really made up for it.
>>345083186
>FFX
still pretty good, I think it was linearity that people didn't like
>Sunshine
still fun, but never really a perfect follow up to 64
>MGS2
People were surprised and angry but it holds up in just about every way and is more fun to play than MGS at least
>WWI always like Wind Waker, ever since I played the demo that came with my gamecube
>>345081092
Sunshine and Wind Waker got flak for not being 1:1 sequels of N64 titles, you will never hear a proper argument as to why anyone hates them. Just a lot of nonsense about how they don't "feel" as good at platforming/combat/etc. or how they didn't live up the immense impact their predecessors did.
Fact is they are straight up better than what came before.
As for FFX, it suffers from some serious plot and pacing issues particularly around the middle. The early game does Tidus' fish out of water bit quite nicely and the end game isn't bad, with a few last minute missteps, but squeenix completely bungled the a huge chunk of the game right about when Sin drops you off in the desert.
>Ffx
>hated
>>345109292
>Unfinished Waker
>better than what came before
>>345109292
No, WW gets flack for having an empty ocean and missing the potential of what it could have been. It has few dungeons, and the few that are there aren't very good. Same with the boss fights.
>>345110046
>Same with the boss fights.
How is running in circles from rolly-polly lizard and feeding him bombs a better boss fight than using your grappling hook to Scorpion pull a giant lava parasite and drop a dragon's ass on it's head?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMynbf-5kb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U76lotSF9Ac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPCnKuU-OIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnlI36cyLDQ
Damn, look at all these awful reviews.
Sure was a lot of hate here.
>>345110278
>they repeat the whole LOL DUH ROCK HIT GOHMA IT'S EYE WENT SILLY LOL tail pull cut scene exactly, three times.
>>345110278
First of all you picked the worst WW boss as your example
Secondly I'm not even comparing it to OoT, which has good fights like Phantom Ganon and Bongo Bongo. I'm talking in terms to the series at large, especially TP which has consistently great bosses. WW doesn't have a Stallord
>>345106326
Fun fact: Thomas Pynchon praised MGS2 and FFX in the book "Bleeding Edge" You guys are in good company.
>>345110394
>getting game reviews from LITERAL commercial bumpers
>>345081092
>FFX
No idea honestly, not really into FF myself to know.
>Sunshine
Fludd gimmick,Yoshi dying to Water, and Bowser talking.
>MGS2
Bait and Switch
>Windwaker
Most people and probably still do, hate it's art style.
I'm surprised no one brought this up for hated 6th gen sequels
>>345111096
People didn't start pretending to hate it until after 5.
FFX was very linear to the point some felt it was less like an adventure and more like a guided tour with battles thrown in. As well as being a cutscene-heavy game with very questionable writing and cutscene direction
Sunshine was blatantly rushed out the door to give Gamecube owners something to play.
Wind Waker was the same as Sunshine, but with the added burden of having a more lighthearted tone when fans were expecting something "epic" like the spaceworld demo.
Nobody wanted to play as Raiden in MGS2, and the story could feel pretentious and messy by the end.
That probably sums it up, I'm not saying I agree with any of it but that's the consensus in my experience.
>>345111096
Did people really hate it at the time? I was 11 at the time so I didn't pay attention. It's legit my favourite game of all time.
>>345082084
Nobody who liked MGS hated MGS2 for the cutscenes, it was mostly Raiden.
>>345111141
Even then I remember a lot of people liking 5 until 6 and Revelations came out and pissed off everyone
>>345108376
Me, I thought it was interesting. FFX's battles feel like they take way too long. At least ATB battles were shorter.
>>345082534
>X was mostly liked, it was just 7 fanboys who wanted something more dark, edgy, and brooding. X was too bright.
Have you played the game? It's the darkest in the series. It's main themes are loss and death.
>>345081092
I used to lurk some game forums back when ffx was new thing and over there the general consensus was that it was a solid 8/10 game with tidus being the worst side of it.
Having played it through just now I have to say there is nothing wrong with tidus. Its Yuna's terrible VA if anything that ruins it.
>>345112049
Between her poor attempt to replicate the quiet speech style of her Japanese counterpart, and the attempts to lip sync, Yuna suffers the whole game
>I. Have.
>Becomea. Summoner.
>>345081092
These are all the best games in their respective series.
>>345081092>I'm 19 so I honestly wouldn't know lol
Fag.18 here.
All these games had flaws but if more and more games released now had just a few of the good elements these games did, I would be buying more games.
>>345081092
FFX was bad, MGS2 was bad but interesting, SMS was mediocre and so was Wind Waker.
Fuck off.
>>345112934
What's a good game then
>>345113035
he probably likes mgs v and ff 13
>>345113287
What? FF13 is just FF10 but worse.
>>345113035
Dark Souls
>>345113336
And yet 10 was the closest FF got to being a good game
>>345113835
The point remains that there is no reason for someone who dislikes FF10 to like FF13.
>>345113835
>Obligatory mention of FFV
>>345113904
I have a friend who does, and I know people out there doProbably because like all things it was their first
>>345113287
Not him but I think the older FF's are much better than FFX. Yes that includes VII.
>>345081092
FFx removed a lot of things because they were too expensive to make otherwise
Mario sunshine was a downgrade compared to m64, with a smaller fighting moveset, and it just felt like a rip off
mgs2 cucked us with raiden and was overall a pretty boring game after the tanker episode
windwaker was also a cuckmove by nintendo because they showed us a twilight princess type techdemo with realistic graphics and people went nuts, then they chose to go with a retarded gfx style. Also 80% of the game is sailing so the world was even emptier than z64 which was a downgrade to lttp in almost every way
>>345114129
VII is for fags but at least it's better than VI.
>>345081092
Honest answer:
Codemonkeys simply developed new water physics and every dev wanted to show off
>>345114645
I'll agree with this. VII at least deserves some of the praise it gets, VI is genuinely overrated and no where near the best FF, let alone the best jrpg ever made
>>345114990
Is Gen 6 the water gen?
Didn't know that people hate ff10. Or is this a 4chan thing?
>>345115357
Plenty of people dislike FF10 for plenty of valid reasons.
>>345081092
MGS2 and FFX are pretty horrible, get some taste newfaggot
>>345115357
It's one of the most polarizing games I've ever encountered. Second only to Tales of the Abyss
>>345081092
I played FFX and all metal gear solid games for the first time this year
MGS 2 was excellent though a clone of the first game. Not inherently bad but not original enough for me to give a fuck. 1 is far superior.
FFX, played two months ago, is grindy bullshit garbage. If I couldn't cheat and skip the tedious horse fuck I would not have finished it period.
Wind Waker was cartoony compared to the supr srs N64 ganesm and finally Sunshine wasn't Mario 64.
Sadly, Sunshine is far better than most Mario games in retrospect, only topped by 64 and maybe the Galaxy games.
They really, really, really need to make another Mario game that plays like that classic N64 game.
>>345111096
it's amazing but it's not a Resident Evil game
Wind Waker was too easy and kiddie, but still a good game
MGS2 is retarded like the whole franchise, but if it's your thing go ahead
Super Mario Sunshine is not very good
FFX hmmm, I remember that game being critically acclaimed on release
>>345082534
>The problem with Raiden is he is a pretty anime boy, and is inexperienced,
Raiden was a former child soldier trained using Solid's memories (via VR).
>>345111096
see
>>345083448
RE4 had some of the best reception of any game ever from reviewers and gamers alike.
Personally I always thought it was overrated though.
>>345115893
>MGS 2 was excellent though a clone of the first game. Not inherently bad but not original enough for me to give a fuck. 1 is far superior.
Anon, you didn't get it.
MGS2 is SUPPOSE to be a clone of MGS.
The plan was to recreate a Shadow Moses type situation for the new "Snake" at least until things went fubar.
>>345116026
>anime picture
we know you dont get it
>>345115893
>MGS 2 was excellent though a clone of the first game. Not inherently bad but not original enough for me to give a fuck. 1 is far superior.
You don't get it.
I hate the game but seriously, you don't get the point of it.
>>345116353
>we
He's right though
>>345116326
it's also supposed to be a shit copy that's making fun of the fanbase
Wind Waker and MGS2 were hated on for dumb, superficial reasons. They're pretty good, but still have actual flaws that are now talked about instead of "NOT MUH SNAKE" and "CELDA".
The criticisms of FFX and Sunshine were valid then and valid now, as they both have some significant issues.
>>345112049
there is literally nothing wrong with Tidus, he is retarded just to give an excuse to characters in the game to explain background, world building and game mechanics to him, the alternative is ff13 where you need to read an encyclopedia which is outside of the game's story just to understand what the fuck is going on
>>345116579
he could be death destroyer of worlds and still be a whiny faggot
>>345115893
>FFX, played two months ago, is grindy bullshit garbage. If I couldn't cheat and skip the tedious horse fuck I would not have finished it period.
This post is full of fail
>>345116872
Flynn's VA is god tier and Raiden is nothing close to whinny or a faggot
>>345116841
Switch FFX and WW and your statement becomes correct
>>345089548
Extremely linear gameplay that doesn't even pretend to let you explore or discover things on your own. This leads to shitty sidequests when you can't backtrack to explore areas until late in the game, and even then it's pretty restricted because none of the earlier areas were designed with secrets and exploration in mind. Yes, this is a big fucking deal for a jrpg.
>>345107108
What the fuck? Do you even know what Elite is?
>>345117196
>doesn't even pretend to let you explore or discover things on your own.
Literally a lie
>This leads to shitty sidequests when you can't backtrack to explore areas until late in the game
So why is X regarded as having the best post game in the series?
>Linearity is a big deal for a jrpg
Says who? It speaks volumes that the best games in the genre are more linear than the weaker titles that pretend to be open. Fuck off
>>345116668
I can see why you'd say that, but Kojima has a habit of reusing themes in the Metal Gear series
>novice agent stumbles into deep shit
>killing your mentor
>child soldier
>a system/group manipulating events
>someone named Emmerich being a fag
>>345117535
>Literally a lie
Literally not. The game doesn't "open up" until the final stretch. How long do you have to play before you're even allowed to backtrack?
>So why is X regarded as having the best post game in the series?
It's not, except by the same idiots who think muh high level hunts! makes XIII not shit when you hit Gran Pulse.
>Says who?
Anyone without shit taste.
>It speaks volumes that the best games in the genre are more linear than the weaker titles that pretend to be open.
I sure as fucking hell hope you don't think X is the best in the series.
>Fuck off
I can only assume that X was your first (and probably only) FF game, otherwise you wouldn't be pretending it was so good. Now run along and don't come back until you're over the age of 18.
>>345117160
>Raiden is nothing close to whinny or a faggot
no idea how could you listen to those codec calls with Rose without cringing
betting my money you're a fag yourself
>>345117196
Not really considering FF never had good exploration or dungeon crawling.
>>345117535
>It speaks volumes that the best games in the genre are more linear than the weaker titles that pretend to be open.
There's a big difference between being linear and being a corridor. In earlier FF games there was still a sequence to do things in, but at least you had an overworld to walk around in and give everything a sense of scale, towns to visit and complete sidequests in.
>>345117846
>I steamroled through one or two old FF games with a guide and pretend they aren't better than X
Ok.
>>345117853
This guy gets it.
>>345106221
The controls work like a dream but the levels that mess that up are total crap
>>345117571
it's a bad copy of the fist game that even breaks the fourth wall and straight up makes fun of the main hero
it's a fuck you to people that wanted superspy Bond like in the previous MGS games and it's hard to believe it wasn't intentional
>>345117846
I hate people like you who just try to ignore their favorite games faults and pretend like every other game was the same. FFX has noticeably worse level design than the other FF games, quit being a lying sack of shit.
>>345117826
>How long do you have to play before you're even allowed to backtrack?
you can backtrack at almost any point all the way back to besaid island. This way you can get jecht sphere and valefor second limit without having to fight dark valefor.
>>345118247
>at almost any point
Bullshit. There are a few points in the game where you can run back in essentially a straight line to pick up a couple things which is incredibly tedious, and even that ability is frequently locked out by game events. Compare this to old games where you explore different parts of continents and can explore radially, and get more mobility the more you play via increasingly mobile vehicles.
You have to be actually insane to pretend X allows for any more exploration or backtracking than any other numbered FF game outside of XIII.
>>345117826
>if I say X was his first and only FF I win the argument right?
The openess of a game doesn't mean shit
X is definitely the best post game, but keep being a contrarian
>Obligatory shit taste strawman tactic
How is the final fantasy with the best gameplay not the best game in the series? I don't even like FF, the series is mediocre compared to it's peers, yet X is the closest it gets to being a good jrpg. FFags are delusional and don't care about gameplay, clearly. And even besides that, the characters, world, music, and visuals of X are all great and arguably some of if not the best in the series.
Come back when you get some real arguments shitpost kun
>>345118648
>Wandering around an empty overworld is considered exploration
You aren't exploring anything
>>345118648
>bullshit
I'm not the original guy but other than bevelle and besaid island you can definitely run all the way back to besaid if you so want to. It's not even as tedious as it sounds because you can get no encounter later on, and run through a few long areas with chocobos, then use the boats from luca.
>exploration or backtracking
FFX is linear but it has plenty of exploration and you can backtrack if you want to.
>>345081092
Because back then, those games weren't as good or as revolutionary as their predecessors from the PS1/N64 era; in fact several of them in your pic included new elements that pissed off their fanbases and had right or position to be implemented in said IPs in the first place. The biggest red-flags being Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker.
>>345090662
Nah, it's more like the average /v/-goer here had WW as their first Zelda, so they wouldn't understand what kind of quality they were missing out on beforehand.
>>345106221
I think the controls are perfect. The Mario games have never felt better to control since then, so I don't know what you're going on about.
The only legitimate complaints are the blue coins and shadow Mario levels. People complain about the levels, but I think they're great, especially the theme park and noki bay.
>>345119235
i meant other than bikanel island my bad
>>345118861
>The openess of a game doesn't mean shit
>Freedom of exploration doesn't mean shit in an rpg
Except it's one of the cornerstones of the genre, and you're a fucking idiot.
>X is definitely the best post game, but keep being a contrarian
No it doesn't, not at all. You were just used to being choked for the whole game that getting a little freedom so you could fight a few superbosses with high HP seemed fun.
>Obligatory shit taste strawman tactic
I think you meant "Obligatory complaint about a logical fallacy that I don't actually understand the meaning of." What is it with idiots on /v/ and their obsession with misusing terms they don't understand as if it gives them legitimacy?
>How is the final fantasy with the best gameplay not the best game in the series?
Because it doesn't have the best gameplay.
>I don't even like FF, the series is mediocre compared to it's peers, yet X is the closest it gets to being a good jrpg
We get it, you have incredibly shit taste.
>The characters in X are great.
Wow, you actually had me going for a while.
>>345119081
>empty overworld
Because optional dungeons and special towns with unique item shops and lore, or chocobo farms and other things like that don't exist, right?
>>345119235
>If you get an item to stop encounters there are points in the game where you can run in a straight line back to the beginning
You're not really selling anyone on the exploration with that.
>but it has plenty of exploration
Not really.
>and you can backtrack if you want to.
Completely linearly, only at certain points, and the only way to not want to kill yourself while doing it is while equipping something to stop battles.
>>345119235
>FFX is linear but it has plenty of exploration
Welp, that's all I needed to hear. People genuinely believe this crap? I'm done.
>>345119527
>It's a cornerstone of the genre
So why are the good games the ones with less focus on it? You keep spouting this like it's some truth when in reality you've only convinced yourself that it has to be, grow the fuck up.
Please tell me how any combat system in any other final fantasy is better than X's. It's well established that X has the best gameplay. But please keep flailing. Trust me, shouting "you have shit taste" at someone is the best way to get your point across, it doesn't make everyone in the thread laugh at you at all anon
>>345082534
>Wind Waker was hated for the same reason of OoT.
How to spot the underage.
OoT was never hated back then. It was hyped as fuck and even then it still managed to blow people's expectations out of the water.
>>345119527
>He's getting this heated
Did X rape your parents or something anon? What happened?
>>345119981
It's the same fucking gameplay as the rest. The only thing that changed is the order of attacks. ATB and FFX are just as good if you aren't retarded.
>>345119528
>If it's liner you can't explore it
>The other FF games aren't linear
People genuinely believe this crap?
>>345119528
the main storyline plays through in a linear manner but there are side locations you can enter if you so want to including but not limited to
>searching for hidden chests
>searching for ultimate weapons
>defeating hidden bosses
>unlocking hidden summons
>hidden minigames
in locations such as
>remiem temple
>omega ruins
>baaj temple
Or do these not somehow count. The hidden bosses alone give the game multiple tens of hours worth of gameplay.
>>345119527
Honestly, just close the thread if you can't argue like a normal human being. All you've done is greentext a bunch of different lines and say "no, no, you're wrong, shut up, i'm right" to each one.
>>345106221
>a tasty wine
>>345120290
>pretending not to notice how different the levels are from FF1-9 to 10
Either you didn't play the old FF games or you are retarded. FFX levels are literal hallways. The old games were not hallways by any margin.
>>345119993
Seriously, who the fuck hated OoT? Almost nobody, except a few contrarians claiming nothing would ever top LttP.
>>345120197
ATB is literally garbage that encourages mindlessness and spamming the attack button. CTB is actually engaging and at least slightly tactical. To say they are the same is like saying an FPS is the same as a third person shooter because they both have cross-hairs and shoot things. It's practically the same thing right? The perspective makes no difference!
>>345120497
You're right about one thing, X has detailed environments that are enjoyable and worthwhile to explore, something that was missing from previous entries. I've already posted my FFVI saves, but I guess I've only played X right?
>>345120550
>ATB is literally garbage that encourages mindlessness and spamming the attack button
Wat. You must have never played any old FF games. Also I recall mindlessly spamming attack during 80% of my FFX playthrough. And no your analogy is fucking stupid. FFX only changed the way turn order was handled it uses all of the same spells.
>>345120746
>X has detailed environments that are enjoyable and worthwhile to explore,
You are delusional. But okay if that is your idea of good exploration then that is on you.
>>345087390
Not him, but MM is the fucking definition of "overrated" and MM fanboys are by far the most annoying fuckers alive.
>>345120760
>Also I recall mindlessly spamming attack during 80% of my FFX playthrough.
Don't lie. You'd get to Seymour Natus then immediately get crushed.
>>345117846
>I have never played FFIV
>or V
>or even I
>but I'm going to talk about them anyways
>>345120760
>only changed the way turn order was handled
Except that's not true at all. The party system is completely different, allowing subbing in on the fly, as well as heavily incentivizing planning moves ahead of time and manipulating the turn order. Plus you have all of the sphere grid. I feel like X is the only FF where I didn't spam attack all game
>>345120981
How is walking a sprite on an empty overworld good exploration? Why is walking through a more detailed environment bad exploration?
X fags are on a roll this thread
>>345120528
Underage faggots. I can't think of anyone who played OoT on release and claimed it was bad.
>>345121179
>Seymour Natus
One boss near the end of the game makes it so much better? The other FF games have the same shit happen.
>>345121192
I wasn't talking about the world map alone, the acual levels were more infricate, just look at shinra HQ. It is way more satisfying to explore than anything in FFX.
>>345118861
>I played the shittiest, most braindead of the SNES FFs that threw away EVERYTHING that made old FF good so I know exactly what FF used to be like!
>>345121631
I loved OoT the first time I played it but I got less and less tolerant of its flaws each time I replayed it.
>>345081092
Only really played X out of those four.
While not a terrible game, I personally really dislike it.
1. It's a hallway simulator throughout most of the game.
2. Once things open up, you have to grind insane amounts just to gain access to the optional stuff.
3. ridiculous side quests in order to obtain the ultimate weapons that could drive you insane.
4. Story is fucking stupid.
5. Almost all of the main characters are lifeless plot devices at best.
6. Dub was unbearable, and really enforced the lifelessness of the characters.
>>345121181
I have played them and the exploration and sidequests are mediocre. Play a classic western rpg.
>>345121984
>I have played them
Clearly not.
>Play a classic western rpg.
I grew up on Ultima, Wizardry, and Fallout. You can fuck right off.
>>345121573
what do you mean by that
Why are people here so much more passionate about the games they hate than the games they like?
>>345084310
What are Twilight Princess and MGS 3 & 4?
>>345122192
The games I hate universally fucked up a series/genre I really liked beyond repair.
>>345121775
Shinra HQ is ok, and I admit I was focusing on VI and earlier in my arguments, like how I would say exploring caves and dungeons in those is not as good as the level design of X. I think there is a point to be made about VII though. Personally I wan't that into Shinra HQ but I see where you are coming from, and I like a lot of the rest of the town designs and dungeons of VII. I feel like that was where the spaces started to become actually populated and detailed, like all of Midgar for example.
>>345090234
>virtually no lore
>getaloadofthisgoycam.exe
>>345081092
Color was so 1998, so all future games had overpowering dullness to their palette. MGS3 has an overwhelming piss filter, twilight princess was all green, that ff spinoff with the edgelord was dark, as were DMC1-3. Ironically, western games were more colorful than Japanese games in 6th gen.
>>345122410
Name 1(one) series this has actually happened to.
>>345122410
Which is why XV will be the most open game in the series?
>>345086526
Because it'd be easier to port them to Wii U, which they did. Plus having 4 Zelda remakes on a handheld is oversaturation, especially when the Wii U is starved for games.
>>345103707
>watch laughing scene and try not to cringe
Confirmed for not playing the game.
>>345108178
MGS2 isn't unpleasant to me at all, though. I think it has the best gameplay and a lot of the best level design in the series.
>>345122192
People feel the need to put other games down in order to verify their love for their favorite. Especially within it's own series. You can't like them all and there is no in between!
>>345122410
Sounds like you're close minded, hate change, and/or got left behind
>>345122616
Ultima.
>>345122497
What games were more colorful than okami, jsrf, killer 7, gitaroo man to name a few
>>345122430
Exactly, that's all I was saying I didn't dislike FFX but I was dissapointed with the level design.
>>345122793
>Sounds like you're close minded, hate change, and/or got left behind
I guess I should congratulate you for being horribly wrong on all three accounts.
>>345081092
>What the fuck was the gaming community thinking back then when these games were being hated on?
>Sunshine
What? Other way around, that game's dick was sucked endlessly and had 9s and 10s all across the board. It's only later that people realized how god awfully shitty and lazily made it is, when they took off their nostalgia glasses. Fuck's sake 43 out of the 120 shines are red/blue coin-related and the game thinks that making you clean shit up (a chore) is entertaining. Also the game handholds your every jump thanks to the hover mechanic. Not to mention is buggy as hell as shown by cases like pic related.
The only good parts are ironically the few FLUDD-less levels, i.e: the ones without the game's main gimmick. Sadly they're too few and short.
>>345123116
Your statement implies otherwise but if you say so
>>345110394
Wait. Toonami is back?
FFX wasn't hated on release.
>>345118112
MGS2 is pretty distinct from MGS1, though. There's overlap in general concept and some callbacks like another cyborg ninja, getting captured, etc. But in terms of general game design and what the player actually does for most of the game it's a pretty different experience. It's just self-aware about what it reuses and wants the player to notice the overlap.
>>345123296
It was divisive ever since it came out.
>>345119981
>So why are the good games the ones with less focus on it?
Because this is wrong, you fucking idiot. Spouting you shit opinion over and over again won't trick anyone into thinking you're right. The only FF game X is better than is XIII, and that's not saying much.
>It's well established that X has the best gameplay.
No it's not, not in the least.
>>345084632
That same anon, going to reply to all.
X WAS dark, but on the surface does not appear that way. It's like telling someone Madoka magical girl is a dark show, and they just watch the first episode or two. Seriously anon.
>>345085390
Again it was based on appearance, not game content. Most people couldn't get past the differences in visuals.
>>345116026
I know you aren't that dumb, I'm aware of Raidens backstory, 2 is even my favorite MGS. Again like with X people based it on the surface.
>>345119993
And if you bothered to look, I corrected it here >>345082658
Which I meant to say people disliked WW for the same reason of FFX.
Really the moral of the story here. Newcomers, and fans alike are too quick to judge things that are different, especially when it is visually so.
Like fuck, for all we know Metroid 3DS game could be awesome, you never know. That's another people are being far too quick to judge on, while yes I am in the camp of not being excited because it doesn't really look like Metroid to me.
>>345081092
Wind waker was toon link garbage after seeing the tech demo. Sailing seas that blend into a monochromatic sky gets boring. Mgs2 was shit because it forced raiden and to play as naked raiden for an hour or so. The ending was good but raiden is a whiny bitch and mgs4 killed its themes of vr mission. Sunshine fluid system was trash and didn't play like m64. FFx was linear garbage compared to ff 6,7,and 9
>>345123391
>Spouting you shit opinion over and over again won't trick anyone into thinking you're right.
The irony is too much
>>345123352
I can agree it's intentionally shitty
>>345120408
Go ahead and point to a single real argument that I didn't directly respond to with a real refutation.
Protip: "This game is the best because I say so" isn't a real argument, no matter how much you want it to be. But please, by all means continue to sidestep me pointing out that older FF games actually had exploration and sidequests that didn't involve walking backwards in a straight line until you reached the end game.
>>345123606
Do you enjoy being a hypocrite?
>>345123296
>>345123368
It was never "divisive" or "hated" except by people like you who spend most of your time actively looking for things to hate. Final Fantasy X was and still is one of the most critically acclaimed games in the whole series, alongside VI and VII.
I like these threads where people talk about 4 different game series at once. I don't know why but it's comfy.
>>345121192
>Get quick attack
>Spam quick attack until literally everything dies
Great combat.
>>345123582
But it isn't shitty at all. What's shitty about it?
>>345123391
Why are you this bitter over an objectively shitty series?
it was the first generation of games where jaded late teens were visible on forums with their extensional crisises of how they're no longer kids everything sucks the world is going to hell and nothing is how it used to be
>>345123695
No, plenty of people loved it and plenty of people hated it. It has been this way since it came out.
>Muh critics
They loved it, they're always paid to love Final Fantasy.
>>345123741
>Spam attack until everything dies
Great combat
I can do it too
>>345123606
"Because it doesn't have the best gameplay?"
"We get it, you have incredibly shit taste?"
"Wow, you actually had me going for a while?"
"Not really?"
Are those real refutations in your mind? "This game is shit because I say so" isn't a real argument either.
>>345123580
>Small vocal fanbase of Xfags are pretending it's the best game in the series
>Everyone else laughs at them
You're a small step above XIIIfags, don't pretend your opinion is worth anything.
>>345123685
So that's a no? Didn't think so.
>>345123854
Because some of us have actually played through all of them.
>>345123391
>The only FF game X is better than is XIII,
You mean II, VI, VII, VIII, and XIII, which isn't saying much because all of those games had absolutely terrible gameplay.
>>345123983
X is definitively the 2nd most popular FF though, that's not even based on critcs, that's sales
>>345123989
You did it first though anon. If anything, the guy you replied to was showing he can do it too. You made fun of your own argument.
>>345124097
I should hope so after 5 releases.
>>345124034
I asked which real arguments did I respond to with a one line insult. None of those were in response to a real argument. No, "It has the best gameplay because I'm a shit eating retard" is not a real argument.
>>345081417
>Sunshine was rushed and wonky.
I don't even know where to begin with this criticism. Sunshine is fun as hell while managing to not be a rehash, it's everything that everybody should have wanted.
>>345123989
That doesn't even apply to half of the FFs out there. I, III, IV, and V will all fuck you over for trying that.
>>345123989
Once you unlock quick attack, almost anything can be destroyed by it. Go pick up FFIV and try spamming nothing but attack in any dungeon you're not 20 levels too high for and let me know how things work out for you.
>>345124074
Damn. That's impressive bait.
>>345123828
it's a comedy take on Shadow Moses with a faggy protagonist, soap opera dialogues, aliums and a fatso on rollerblades
Sunshine had fewer levels than 64 and it had too much padding. Also the voice-acting was shit.
MGS2 complaints were basically "muh snake".
Wind Waker complaints were basically "muh cartoons". Also the Great Sea just felt really empty.
>>345124391
But that soundsfun
>>345124330
It's not bait. VI and VII are the two FFs directly responsible for "mash attack to win" levels of braindead gameplay because they require even less from the player than the fucking easymode version of FFIV.
>>345124619
>It's not bait.
I feel bad for your caretaker.
>>345124330
Explain how the gameplay is worse than II and VIII
>>345124174
Alright, fine. Here's some real arguments.
Final Fantasy X has great gameplay because instead of focusing on rushing you to make quick decisions through an active flow of time, it encourages decisions made long in advance. This comes through in battles like Seymour Natus, where if Natus and the mortibody get actions one after the other, they will petrify and then shatter one of your party members, so you need to manipulate the turn order in order to avoid that situation.
The characters in Final Fantasy X are great because they all have distinct personalities and motives. Tidus seems dumb because he's just been forcefully dropped into a world he has no understanding of- so he needs to ask everyone what's going on not only to affirm himself, but to affirm the player. Yuna has an incredible weight on her shoulders, and goes through the first 20 hours of the game without telling the person she ends up loving most that finishing their journey would kill her. Wakka has to struggle with the religion he's been following for his whole life being a sham, and having to work with a race that he believes indirectly caused his brother's death. There is a lot of character development there if you stop focusing on how much you hate the voice acting.
Your move.
>>345124391
>it's a comedy take on Shadow Moses
MGS1 doesn't have anything as goofy as Fatman, but the games on the whole maintain a similar action-thriller tone. MGS2 only really goes off the rails for the Arsenal Gear bit.
>faggy protagonist
What a criticism.
>soap opera dialogues
Just like MG2 and MGS1, then.
>aliums
The Patriots are ambiguous in origin, but being alien isn't really implied.
All of your reasons are pretty superficial.
>>345111096
>People hating on the best game of all time
>>345081092
>I don't blame people for hating FFX though. I like that game, but it's pretty fucking weird
you're alright, OP
i got the FFX collection for 15 hours and now i have it stuck on my backlog :/
i don't outright dislike it but the writing is so bad and the emphasis on magic water basketball is annoying as fuck
>>345124459
>Sunshine had fewer levels than 64
>fewer levels
And a ton of stars in 64 were filler stages with either face-slappingly easy or monotonous objectives
>100 coin stars
>this shit right here
>>345118861
>15 months in a year
>>345125058
>Here's some real arguments.
Oh I'm sure these will be fantastic.
>Final Fantasy X has great gameplay because instead of focusing on rushing you to make quick decisions through an active flow of time, it encourages decisions made long in advance.
You're trying to make checkers sound like chess. The ATB added a sense of urgency that was good for the game, and you STILL had to plan moves out by figuring out how quickly enemies would attack or what could trigger counters. All the turns system in X did was add training wheels and take away the work involved in figuring out attack rate on your own.
>This comes through in battles like Seymour Natus, where if Natus and the mortibody get actions one after the other, they will petrify and then shatter one of your party members, so you need to manipulate the turn order in order to avoid that situation.
That's a great one battle example. I'll now bring up the computer boss with the regenerating orbs in FFIV that requires you to time attacks based on how he regenerates and counters. Same idea, but without the training wheels. You sound like you just suck at making decisions on a timer.
>The characters in Final Fantasy X are great
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. The characters are a joke, and no amount of mental gymnastics or talking up the "super deep and dark story below the surface!" will change that. This rant reads like that idiot who wrote a copypasta about what Lightening did in XIII, and thought that simply saying "These things happened" would make people think she was a good character.
>>345125058
I appreciate you picking up the torch anon, fight the good fight brudda. I'm gonna go play some #FE. See you tomorrow 4chan. Very entertaining thread
>>345125671
Timing wasn't an issue in FFIV and V because their ATB would freeze while animations played.
>>345125671
>he replies to every single point with an insult and goes "no it wasn't lol, this game did it better because i say so"
Well, I tried.
>>345126268
That's still more involvment in timing than X had.
>>345126330
0/10
You didn't try at all.
>>345126382
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.
>>345125671
Why do people shit on the characters in X, when they're better than the rest of the series? Tell me all about how great of a character Celes is, seriously
>>345081092
Super Mario Sunshine is a mediocre 3d platformer desu
there is absolutely no weight to the movements of mario which is actually bad for a platformer and makes the game piss-easy
the gimmick was okay tho and was very fun
the level-design was atrocious(needed actual arrows to show the players the way towards their goal)
FFX is THE best example of a cliche JRPG
>>345125253
whatever Raiden, I need scissors 61
>>345126519
>FFX is THE best example of a cliche JRPG
You must not play a lot of jrpgs
>>345126439
If you think the characters in X were any good, it's because you think the plotpoints that dictates what happen to them (He wasn't real the whole time!) makes for good characters. The actual characterization, dialog and interactions were all extremely bland.
>>345126457
Are you the same idiot who keeps insisting that X is universally regarded as the best in the series on all fronts? The characters in X are only better than characters in XII by virtue of having any personality at all, and XIII because XIII is pure garbage from top to bottom.
>>345126382
You're not mistaken, FFIV has much better combat than X's does, but the reason for that has nothing to do with timing.
>>345126382
Reply to my II and VIII post I double dare you motherfucker
>>345126696
So you avoided the question again by throwing an insult at X's characters instead of saying why any of the other games do characters better. I'm still waiting for how deep of a character Shadow is
>>345081092
FFX- fucking Tidus. combat system was good and I didn't mind some of the other characters but Tidus just sucks any enjoyment out of the game for me.
MGS2 - fucking Raiden. Cover art featured Snake,and in the first mission(and demo too if remember right), you played as Snake. lots of people were expecting to play as him though the entire game, but were given Raiden instead. He's probably redeemed himself after MGS5 and Revengence, but when MGS2 first came out, he sucked some serious ass in comparison .
WindWaker- May have been the art style. I'm not sure many people 'hate' the game, but zelda fans were expecting something more realistic for the Gamecube. During e3 2000, Nintendo showed this tech demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIa79bTDuV4&ab_channel=xXWolfricXx
and we got windwaker instead.
Mario Sunshine- haven't played it, so can't say. heard it's incredibly difficult though. One of the harder 3D platformers out there.
have no clue why people didnt like wind waker or mario sunshine
sunshine is the best 3d platformer ever made, the world is more full of life than any other mario game, the exploring is awesome, the turbo nozzle and rocket nozzle are great fun, sliding on your belly is great fun
also no idea why people think the sailing in wind waker is bad, but maybe thats cuz ive never played a sailing simulator, for me it was awesome to see islands in the distance and go exploring
i also love the little side quests on the random islands
>>345126906
Guy is just baiting at this point
>>345126971
man that video was hideous, im so glad we got wind waker instead
i do think its funny that we have the smash melee sounds in there
>>345127107
He's been baiting all thread and everyone has been laughing at him tbqh
>>345126697
>but the reason for that has nothing to do with timing.
The point was that despite people claiming that X did something amazing with turn order, the older games had similar turn management, but it was just behind the scenes and required more thinking instead of just giving the player a list that they could read. Enemies and players attack in sequence once the ATB system was introduced, and the player needs to figure out which actions can manipulate that, as well as plan for which order the enemies attack in. That isn't something that X does well.
>>345126856
II was fine. People just blow it out of proportion because they like to pretend that you HAVE to min-max the game by attack yourself nonstop. If you play the game without that, it still plays a lot like I, which while not amazing, is still decent. The only people who complain about VIII are the ones that were too stupid to junction and tried grinding, then got their asses handed to them, or the ones that looked up a guide online and then thought it was too easy because they knew to junction 100 water magic to attack at the very start.
>>345126971
>Smug anime weebshit meme
I'm not going to read whatever retarded shit you just post. Fuck off.
>>345126906
>You avoided the point about the characters in X being shit by explaining why the characters in X were shit
Are you actually retarded? I'm blown away by how stupid Xfags are.
>>345127285
Still waiting family
>>345127175
>Haha, yeah bro
>Us three circlejerking retards with shit taste sure showed him by screaming that X is amazing and everyone loves it!
Meanwhile, reality disagrees.
>>345114067
FFV is funny, witty, has great pacing and likeable characters and has the best use of job system in a mainline FF game.
How is this not everyones favourite FF?
>>345126696
You still have yet to give a single reason that X's battle system or characters are at all bad without going "well, this game does it better!!" If you've played every game in the series like you claim, you should be well aware that comparing them to each other is like comparing apples to oranges.
>>345127179
>the older games had similar turn management, but it was just behind the scenes and required more thinking instead of just giving the player a list that they could read.
You could argue that the battle system didn't require more thinking, it was just more obfuscated and gave you less information to work with so it only seemed more deep and complex.
>>345127414
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.
>>345106221
Mmm. Doesn't stop me from thinking 64 is one of the most mediocre fucking 3D Marios. Call me a contrarian, but I far prefer Sunshine.
>>345127414
>The reality where X is the second most popular FF disagrees
Alright
>>345127414
>>345127535
Actually, never, mind, I WILL dignify it with a response. So far, much more people are disagreeing with you than agreeing with you. And please don't try to claim you're multiple people, it's really obvious when you can't stop yourself from calling people retards for no good reason.
>>345127395
Still waiting on what? X had bad characters. They had no real depth outside of a few big plot points. Their dialog and interactions were just bad, and the voice acting didn't help. VII (while a bit edgy) was at least interesting to see how Cloud was messed up in the head and why, and how the mystery unfolded. VIII had Squall and the memory loss gang in that zany world, where their conversations with each other actually mattered. The older games had some blank slate characters because they weren't focused on characterization (better than bad characterization) and then you had characters like Ricard or Ridya that were better on their own than the entire cast of FFX.
>>345127535
>You can't say that X is a worse FF game by pointing out that the other FF games do it better
You're stupid.
>Relying more on memory, speed and strategy just makes it obtuse, not more complicated.
Definitely stupid.
>>345127694
>The first game that released on the PS2 sold a lot so it's the best!
The stupidest.
>>345127838
>The 3 FFXfags are all here sucking cock!
Wait a week, make an FF thread aimed at no one game in general, and see how many people think X is the best. I dare you.
>>345128004
wew lad
3D Mario sucks, 3D Zelda sucks (mostly), Metal Gear Bullshit has always been crap and pushed by Sony fanboys, same goes for FF which is a horribly designed JRPG that should've died out with 4th gen. The only reason any of these games are pushed as OMFG TOTAL GEM GUISE is because of console war PTSD.
>>345128004
>IX autist this mad that people like X
lmao
>>345128004
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.
>>345127003
There's no life in that shitty horrible plot. Galaxy makes it look like a masterpiece though
>>345119993
What other games have had such insane hype and actually lived up to it?
>>345127535
>You still have yet to give a single reason that X's battle system
Most of the game has 0/10 difficulty, which ends up wasting X's theoretically good battle system most of the time, characters are poorly balanced against each other at best because if you don't have Mix or a multihit overdrive you end up being pointless in comparison to the characters that do, the ability system isn't as good as it should be because Quick Hit obsoletes everything else and the post-game ends up being about it.
X's battle system is great in theory but its issues make it a lot worse than it should be.
>>345128146
Who the fuck even brought up IX?
>>345128357
Wow anon, that's really clever! By repeating what I said (despite that I backed up what I said with specific examples) you've taken focus away from the fact that Xfags are literally retarded and their "standards" for liking the game boil down to them saying you're not allowed to compare it to anything else.
>>345128004
>It was a IXfag the whole time
I forgot that IXfags despise Xfags, now those whole thread makes sense
>N-n-next time, WE'LL be the majority in a thread on 4chan, then that will prove my favorite game is the best and yours is shit!
Make a IX hug box tonight if that's what you need anon, clearly the bullying in here was too much for you. This is coming from someone who likes IX
>>345128004
All of that is completely subjective. How does Wakka have less growth than any character in VII or VIII?
>>345128717
>Post brings up VII, VIII, I, II and IV
>No where does it mention IX
>"HAHAHA fucking IXfags! BTFO!"
Seriously, how fucking stupid are you?
>>345128508
This guy right here. You're alright. I love X, but you've actually made some good points, so I'd much rather debate you about it than Mr. Chucklefuck over there. I will say though that most of the issues you've brought up, especially with Quick Hit and the importance of multihit overdrives, only apply to endgame. As for the 0/10 difficulty, I think a lot of anons can attest to having to watch the Yunalesca cutscene more times than is at all necessary. Seymour Flux is also pretty notorious as a hard boss. It is true though that if you take the time to grind, most battles can become a cakewalk.
>>345128701
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.
>>345129013
>How does Wakka have less growth than any character in VII or VIII?
Because you can't point to any serious growth he has through actual interaction as opposed to just saying "His premise was X who became Y so he's good." Why can't you understand the importance of good characterization?
>>345129109
>You brought up the same point, but I need to pretend that it was different because you weren't mean to me like the other anon
Is that your way of admitting you're an idiot? I accept your apology.
>>345129109
>As for the 0/10 difficulty
Most of the time, not all of the time.
>>345129319
How is the difficulty anything different from previous entries
>>345081092
>This thread was a ploy to test which fan base was the most autistic
>FF fans prove once again to be the winners
Some things never change
>>345081417
Sunshine has to be the best 3d mario game
>>345090662
>>345119298
Fuck both of you, I grew up with LTTP and the 64 Zeldas and I loved Wind Waker too.
>>345129245
Dude has a character arc, just because there isn't an hour long section dedicated to his angst doesn't mean otherwise.
I'm genuinely at a loss here. Do i have to point out cutscenes?
>>345129992
>Dude has a premise and a conclusion
>It doesn't matter than everything in between leading up to it was hollow with poor dialog, as long as the resolution happened then he's a good character
Ok then.
>>345115705
Abyss is just bad.
>>345129446
I-V are difficult pretty often and after that, FF is almost never difficult outside of optional content.
>>345130153
It's not hollow because you say so, his arc is pretty consistent and well written
>>345115705
That's not FF8.
>>345130260
If by bad you mean amazing then sure. One of the greats no doubt
>>345130354
It's not hollow because I say so, it's hollow because it's hollow. Being consistently lacking doesn't make it well written.
They were sequels to games considered legendary and they all took radical changes from their predecessors, either story-wise, mechanically wise or thematically wise.
>>345130472
You're argument is "I don't like it so it's bad"
>>345130153
>Everything leading up to it was hollow with poor dialog
Subjective.
His 1 scene at al bhed home and the conclusion at Yunalesca was objectively better done than Squall's mess of an arc.
>>345130459
30fps on the overworld.
>>345082534
So much b8 in one post
>>345130703
No, my argument is that his character lacks any interesting dialog to chronicle his change throughout the story that leads up to the big change that you're pretending in and of itself justifies him as a good character.
>>345130714
Perfect example. Ignore the entire arc, point out the resolution and pretend it's good.
>>345130810
How does that make the game not fantastic
>>345130851
Are we going to pretend he doesn't utter racist remarks and practice his religion the entire game?
>>345131079
Shit plot
>>345130153
Scene where Wakka finds out Rikku is an Al Bhed. He's initially completely abhorrent to the idea, to the point where he half-jokingly calls Auron an Al Bhed too for letting Rikku come with them. Later, when the Guado attack Home, Wakka ends up comforting Rikku after seeing that they're in constant danger as well.
Scene where the party finds out the lift in the Monk's Passage of the Bevelle Temple is machina. It's only a couple lines of dialogue, but it's still important in its own way and really brings the point home that Yevon is an inherently hypocritical organization.
When Wakka finds out Luzzu was the one who convinced Chappu to enlist and punches him in the face, for a moment he feels like he's accomplished something by doing so, but quickly calms down after remembering that nothing could bring Chappu back, and that Luzzu was likely going to die in battle.
There are tons of little moments that challenge Wakka's faith in Yevon, and just because I don't illustrate each individual one doesn't mean they didn't happen.
>>345130851
I'm not gonna write essays about Wakka, man. You're grasping at straws if you believe it has the worst characterization of any FF.
>>345131254
The plot is one of the best in video games, that's why it's so good. You can't take the games biggest pro and pretend it's a con
>>345131220
Are we going to pretend that being a muslim with a hawaiian accent makes him a good character?
>>345131264
>just because I don't illustrate each individual one doesn't mean they didn't happen.
No, but there not being many and almost none of them carrying any emotional weight means he's a bad character. I'm actually shocked that Xfags are deluded enough to think that he's an interesting character or has interesting development.
>>345131470
>You're grasping at straws if you believe it has the worst characterization of any FF.
Nice strawman. Point me to where I said that.
>>345131526
It makes him a better character than most of the other FF characters, absolutely. Let's be real, the bar is not that high in the first place
>>345131610
>It makes him a better character than most of the other FF characters
No it's doesn't. The casts of II, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII and IX were all better by miles.
>>345131526
Oh, for fuck's sake. At this point you're just going "nope, not enough examples, and those examples aren't emotional or interesting because I say so." Are you even a real person?
>>345131703
That's pretty subjective but you're welcome to think that
>>345081092
Never hated any of those games. Wind Waker was just disappointing, but I never hated it. Mario Sunshine is just okay. MGS2 is a damn fine game and Final Fantasy X is alright for what it was. Still cheesy as fuck and a little too linear, but I enjoyed it.
But hey, >opinions
>>345131865
>Are you even a real person?
I'd ask you the same, but given that you're pretending Wakka was a good character I already know the answer is no.
>>345131883
>That's pretty subjective
Not in the slightest.
>>345131982
>writing isn't subjective
Yes it is
>>345132069
>Standards in writing don't exist and everything is subjective so I can't be wrong
Probably my favorite of all memes.
>>345131480
>The plot is one of the best in video games, that's why it's so good. You can't take the games biggest pro and pretend it's a con
>Luke cuts his hair
>He magically becomes a new person
>>345132212
The only memer here is you
>>345132257
Stop being so subjective.
>>345132246
>Magically becomes a new person
Did you even play the game? His change is incredibly gradual
>>345132313
You first
>>345132369
>His change is incredibly gradual
>Did you even play the game?
I know you didn't.
>>345132467
But I'm subjectively being objective.
>>345132595
You're clearly being objectively subjective
>>345132594
Dang, you really got me anon
>>345132718
Is it that hard for you think of a single actual reason that Wakka isn't a bad character without going "He was racist at first?"
>>345131982
>I'd ask you the same, but given that you're pretending Wakka was a good character I already know the answer is no.
Sorry but that little "even in death ya" was some of the hypest shit in videogames, it's like you ignore thematics and just focus on some dumb shit.
>>345132846
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be4on-jxHKw
>>345082534
>SS
>Super Mario Sunshine
>SMS
>Mario Sunshine
>MS
>Mario SunShine
>MSS
>SunShine
>SS
Oh I get it, that's retarded though.
>>345132868
You first.
>>345132894
>was some of the hypest shit in videogames
Oh, you're 14. That makes things clearer.
>>345132923
What a great ending
>>345132984
I'm not going to dignify that with a response.
>>345133119
I'm not going to dignify that with a response.
>>345133154
But you subjectively just did.
>>345133201
I'm not going to dignify that with an objectively subjective response.
>>345133201
No I'm objectively the subjective guy
>>345132212
But most of the time in a professional work, the writing is going to be on form even if you don't personally like it.
Subjectivity can be a difficult concept because it suggests that nothing can be shit.
Stuff can be shit but, not due to someone's tastes.
>>345133320
What a coincidence, I'm subjectively the objective guy!
>>345133007
Well I'm gonna be a mature 14 year old and agree to disagree, this is just pointless.
>>345133275
>>345133320
>>345133445
>>345133470
>>345133562
You're all subjectively retarded.
>>345133781
Are you being objective with me right now
>>345133781*objectively retarded
https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=ffx+rating
Like it's impossible for some of you to have the maturity to just say "That doesn't appeal to my tastes at all." instead of "That game was garbage you're an idiot for thinking it wasn't. Everyone else in the world is just stupid."
![I like [game].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HPUda8Q.jpg "I like [game]")
