What's the point of debuffs if bosses can just instantly rebuff themselves?
You waste a turn
So that the enemy also wastes a turn
>>344992639
Stalling and make then lose a turn just to rebuff
JRPGs have inherently flawed gameplay.
>>344992784
But matador rebuffs and attacks in the same turn.
SMT 3 is a game of turn economy. you tend to have more actions overall compared to the boss (UNLESS YOUR NAME IS MOT, FUCK THAT GUY) but less offensive capability.
So you can make him waste turns while you attack.
>>344992998
Yesbut you can do 4 moves per turn
Enemy has to waste a turn fixing themselves up so you can plan an attack.
>>344993031
>UNLESS YOUR NAME IS MOT, FUCK THAT GUY
Mot is fucking easy though, once you get past the Fiends the game is a walk in the park unless your fighting a boss named Beelzebub.
>>344993216
Not Matador. He also charges for a special attack and then does the attack in the same turn.
You can buff/debuff in a discrete way so that the enemy won't care about cancelling them.
Or like others say, you waste one of your 4 turns using a buff/debuff, so that he wastes one of his 2 turns cancelling it.
>>344993304
That's only if you debuff him fast enough. Most of the time he'll just use dekaja and then follow up with magaru or an attack. Ive only had him charge and then andalucia once in my fight and I still won because media with Uzume makes the fight 10 times easier.
>>344993298
I beat him first try during normal but when I played hard he kept beast eye'ing and nuking me to death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIjVvnO5lgM
>>344993298
>Bumble fuck into Beelzebub because I sure as hell didn't expect the boss to be in that shit hole
>Take him out first try
He's not that bad, since by that point in the game your team should be pretty beefy.
Matador is the easiest SMT3 boss/miniboss/whatever it is.
I've had more problems with fucking Dante and Thor.
>What's the point of debuffs if bosses can just instantly rebuff themselves?
You make 'em lose a turn, genius.
>>344993581
It just depends on how long it took you to get there and your levels.
If your underleveled and he starts up the Death Flies you get fucked up.
>>344993678
>tfw DMC fan
>mfw getting combo'd to death by Dante while he does animations of his actual games
I didn't even know who to root for in my first encounter with him.
>It's a "can randomly kill 3 of your party members and beat the shit out of you while you waste 3 turns getting them back" episode
>>344992639
if rebuff only puts them back to their neutral state after a debuff than you at least stopped them from buffing up.
If a buff completly overwrites a debuff instead of the two balancing each other out, than it's just shitty game design.
>>344994115
Honestly on that fight I didn't bother reviving my dudes when they went down.
After they died I killed the boss solo with a Fire Shotgun and copious amounts of Beads.
>>344994026
I was more like ''I just wanted to get inside the Mantra base, stupid Dante...''
>>344992639
Smt you have 4 moves, so as long as you are using your other 3 moves wisely it's fine
>>344992639
Matador only rebuffs if you debuff him too much. If you stay at -2 he never casts dekaja.
>>344994702
I mean Red Capote.
>>344994368
Not necessarily. In fact I consider the opposite to be good game design in some cases, especially if they can all stock up.
For example if the buffs have a turn limit, then you or an enemy can have a 3 turn rakukaja, a 1 turn sukunda and a 2 turn sukukaja. That's an interesting mechanic that encourages you to gamble with different decisions, such as if you want to cancel those debuffs or if you want to extend your buffs.
>>344992816
you could nitpick that philosophy into literally any genre
>>344992639
What's the point of debuffs if bosses are just immune to everything and everything else dies if you sneeze on it?
>tfw when bosses aren't immune to everything you just need to know which debuffs correlate to which stat and customize yourself accordingly if you're going to use them in a particular strategy
>>344992639
Why do debuffs even exist at all? When buffs exist there is no need at all for debuffs.
>>344995712
Variety.
And if you don't want variety then you might as well just play a game where you just spam attack to win.
>>344995712
Because having +4 Attack and the boss having -4 Defense is soooo satisfying. Them numbers.
>>344995712
If you can change party members in combat debuffs are better than buffs since the party member you change in won't carry over the buff of the previous character.
>>344992639
>not realizing that you can make them waste a turn if you force them to rebuff
strats man strats
>>344996656
Why not just use the same amount of turns to go +8 attack?
>>344996731
This is the one scenario I see it useful in, but in plenty of RPGs you can't swap party members mid-fight.
>>344997185
>Why not just use the same amount of turns to go +8 attack?
Well I was talking about SMT here. Buffs and Debuffs cap at +4 and -4 respectively.
>>344997185
SMT can only go up to +4.
>>344996987
how are you not wasting a turn casting the debuff then?
>>344997271
>>344997286
I'm talking more from a developer standpoint, you could remove debuffs entirely and raise the buff cap to 8 and you'd have the exact same thing.
>>344997185
Buffs and debuffs are both cool, if you find them to be redundant then you should play something like Etrian Oddisey which makes a good use those and even has specific body part binds. Megaten still uses them well though.
The advantage of buffs is that they give a huge boost to your strong allies and allows your weakest allies to stand a chance.
The advantage of debuffs is that they affect the enemy, so if your allies die or you switch them, the enemy will stay debuffed.
>>344996987
good one nigger
you get a bib and no children
>>344997457
It adds a bit more complexity. Sometimes a boss has only the ability to remove buffs from you and can't take debuffs off. You figure that out mid fight and exploit that, changing up your strategy,
Also debuffs stay with the boss, whilst if an ally dies and you summon a new one that ally doesn't have the buffs.
you guys are acting like fog breath/war cry don't exist
>>344997185
Enemy will procede to null your stats and or fuck you up.
>>344993216
What plan? the plan to debuff him again.
>>344995712
They have different applications and strategies.
Boost a single party member's attack and only he will do more damage to any enemy.
Decrease a single enemy's defense and every party member will do more damage to that one enemy.
>>344992816
Nah, just garbage like SMT
SMT faggots constantly have to bring these shitty games up because they are trying to make them look popular
They aren't, because they are dogshit games for edgy teens who just turned atheist
>>344997439
>>344996987
then having to re-debuff so still a waste.
>>344998147
>debuff defense
>attack with charged party member
>boss' turn
>waste a turn removing debuff
>>344998371
buff
self destructor
>>344998371
if your normal attk does 1000 dmg
and your charged attk does 1700
Y not attk 2x for 2000 instead of debuff.
>>344998197
>Boost a single party member's attack and only he will do more damage to any enemy.
Party buffs are a thing.
>>344996987
How is that strategy when the boss only wastes one turn to rebuff while you are potentially wasting up to 3 turns to debuff him again.
>>344998429
bring never self destruct in
>>344998884
cast paladin bubble X3
buff fuse
debuff
curse
>>344998531
because games where charging isn't shit will boost by 2.X not by 1.7. And you're still forcing the boss to blow a turn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roJgXRcQWBU
a turn later
>>344998371
This.
When I play on hard mode and happen to be underleveled, a good ol' buff+debuff+charge attack strategy help me to kill bosses before they wipe out or leave my entire party on the verge of death. Which feels both fucking satisfying, and helps me to level up twice or even thrice in a row.
>>344992639
His agility is damn high.
He wastes a turn re-buffing and you have a higher chance to land that dank lunge.
>>344997457
Because I want to rush underleveled by making him hit like a wimp.
Also all that does is remove a shitton of spells from the game.
>>345000228
>Charging a matador with max agility on a debuffed group while spamming andalucia
CRITICAL
CRITICAL
CRITICAL
lol
turds
whats the point of turns when the enemy has infinite turns
MISS
miss
miss
MISS
>>344998215
Persona has the same system you idiot.
