Why is he so fucking shit?
He is a wasted slot like Hanzo, Zenyatta and Genji. It's a guaranteed loss if someone picks his ass.
>>344643952
at this point they might as well just make his right click a cone that does 40 damage per shot of ammo in his right click but is impossible to miss
because retards walking into his flashbangs were complaining and he got blizzarded
>>344643952
LOL are you like rank 40-50 or some shit genji is legit. mcree is not a top pick but he can work if you can land those left click headshots at mid range
>>344643952
he still shits on tracer and reaper if you arent garbage. you just cant go solo anymore because you have no escape and flashbang doesnt get you free kills anymore
>>344643952
>has a combo that's all but guaranteed to kill any character that's not a tank
>gun can challenge enemies at close or long range
Also
>Genji is a wasted slot
I think you're just a retard playing with other retards.
>>344644171
You are retarded. He could kill tanks with his fan. Now he is still strong but no tankkiller anymore.
They need to nerf hanzos scatter arrow now. Because it's the same shit.
>>344644474
he can't even kill reaper during a flashbang anymore, barely kills 200 hp heroes
>>344643952
They fucked up the nerf. Should've put a short cooldown on fan instead of lowering the damage. Now he can still doublefan tanks almost as well as before but he can't deal enough damage to kill a good Genji or Reaper before the stun wears off.
>hurr hurr just stop being shit
hurr hurr stop playing against shitty Genjis and Reapers.
>>344644595
the only way a genji or reaper can survive the fan is if your not close enough or miss one of the shots. so yes get good, shitter
>>344644927
The stun ends before you can kill them, dumbshit. Reaper can wraith away, Genji deflects the rest of the shots into your face and then swift strikes behind you. Stop playing against shitters.
>>344644927
>"I don't know any of genji or reaper's abilities please fuck my face."
>>344644474
Ain't that ATTACK heroes are supposed to do? Now he is just fucking shit
>>344645032
do you even aim for the head
>>344643952
>genji is a waste of a team slot
You suck at overwatch.
>>344645520
>flash+headshot = 175
>0.5 sec per shot
>stun still ends before second shot
Stop playing against shitters.
>>344645032
your retarded. if you land every single shot from a close enough range they will die before they can use those abilities. did you even ready my response?
>>344643952
I assume you're no higher than rank 50.
I still see him plenty at average rank 70 matches that I play, and he's really effective.
Of course you need to know how to aim and left click, so he's not gonna see much action at the low tier brackets because nobody can hit the broad side of a barn in there.
>>344645683
Flash + headshot is 165.
He's still good for people who can land headshots, but he does need a nerf to actually be worth to pick over soldier.
He's the most fun to play as though.
Fan the hammer nerf was needed but they should've buffed his lmb to make up for it.
>>344645732
Do you even play the game? Stun ends before you can.
>>344645754
Flash is 25, headshot is 150, both are 175.
>>344645863
Headshot is 140, if it was 150 he would be so much better.
>>344645863
LOL your fucking retarded. go in a game with a friend if you have any and test it. when your at point blank it can kill a reaper or genji.
>>344645952
Flash is 25, Fan is 45 per shot.
You need 4 hits at close range to kill a Genji. You need 5 to kill a Reaper. You're not going to get more than 3 before the stun duration ends. Play the fucking game against players who aren't shitters
>>344646109
if your not preaimed at the person and already shooting when the stun starts then your not good enough to play mcree
>>344645863
headshot is 140
>McREEEE is dead
>KOTH match against 2 Tracers and a Genji
>>344644474
>mcree is strong
>hanzo needs a nerf
What's it like at rank 30?
>>344645520
Fan the hammer can't crit, newfriend
>>344649021
I fucking hated double McCreee every other match but this isn't any better.
The simple solution would be to just disable stacking. NOBODY thinks it's fun to play against a team stacked with annoying character, and personally I don't like playing with them either. Blizzard is stubborn about it claiming it adds strategy, but I don't see it. How is it more strategic having fifty tracers zooping around than having a team of diverse heroes each having different roles?
>Bad enough to be and outclassed in every way by other heroes (76 and reaper)
>Not bad enough to warrant Blizzard's attention for a buff
McCree is going to be stuck like this for a while isn't he?
>>344643952
He cant rape tanks anymore and his dropoff is fucking crazy, 6 bodyshots to kill a 200hp hero.
Dude has been replaced by Roadhog and Reaper.
RIP Mccree
>>344649330
they still working on dva so of course he is.
A simple, small LMB buff would go a long way for McCree without overdoing it. Just to make him a definite Reaper counter.
>>344649464
No, they just need to buff his Fan by 5 damage and increase his stun to 1 second.
>>344644536
Sub 60 detected. It's called a head shot retard.
>>344649668
doesn't kill them, but a good McCree should shoot them once before flashbanging anyway
why didnt they just make fth do less on tanks?
no one else, just tanks?
is that too hard or something?
>>344649730
True. McCree is in a bad spot but he has his uses. He is a good defender to stop OT cheese and shut down a healer.
>final point on anubis
>me in attacking team
>enemy team panics switches to mass dva
>game goes on for 10 more minutes
they need to fix overtime holy shit.
>>344649924
That's pretty much how I play him, I go for Mercy/Lucio and hunt for Reapers. I go for Tracers too but her blinks makes it a pain to land a flashbang on her too often.
>>344649751
How do you define a "tank"
Why would you give a hero a gun that deals less damage against some randomly defined target
no other damage works that way, what you're describing is supremely unintuitive
there is no long range hitscan offensive hero.
mccree should be that with a get out of jail card for close combat since he has no escape.
they just need to reduce his damage drop off.
>>344644536
you are fucking retarded
>fan does 45 per shot
>Reaper has 250 health
>6x45=270
please PLEASE SHOW me your rank so i can laugh at you
>>344649751
>>344650139
Actually armor-health removes 5hp (iirc) from each hit so multihits are less effective. Maybe they could rework this system somehow to balance it more.
Lets give the demo man infinite ammo, a sticky bomb that forces people in place, explosive jumping that deals no self damage, and on top of it why don't we just give the demoman a giant, drivable explosive he can use around corners.
>>344643952
Overnerfed like fuck. Thanks OW communtiy for being salty faggots and forcing that kneejerk nerf.
>>344649973
I say just remove it, it takes too fucking long.
At least just in quickplay
>>344650232
because reaper just has to spam shift to enter wraith mode before the last two shots come out, mccree will never kill him in time unless the reaper suffers from lag
>>344650232
flashbang stun isn't long enough for the whole 6 shots.
also hitting them all is basically random.
>>344650216
Good call.
Increase flashbang duration to 1s and remove his right click.
>>344650232
Stun last for .7 seconds, you can only get 4 fan shots off, 180 damage.
And even then Reaper can just wraith form away, grab a health pack, and blast you twice in the face.
Mccree a shit
>>344650279
He DID need a nerf, they just ignored the fact that they should buff his LMB when doing so. It's kinda ridicilous how much damage he shat out with his FtH at mid range, even against groups. FtH->side roll->FtH could demolish anyone defending the payload and the entire meta revolved around him. It was bad design, it needed to be nerfed, but again they should've buffed another aspect of him to compensate.
>>344650236
You could make his attacks deal more damage to armor, but not all "tanks" in the game have or use armor.
He'd still do the same damage to Zarya or Roadhog, for example.
They should just increase his headshot damage. McCree should be about being good at aiming and not plowing any hero you manage to throw a flashbang at. Roadhog is balanced because aiming the hook can be tricky, but McCree's Flashbang is a huge AoE in front of him that's basically impossible to miss.
>>344649751
>>344650139
>>344650236
>Apply buff to everyone in "Tank" category
>This includes Zarya, whose health pool isn't actually that great & only tanks by way of absorbing everything via barriers
>Zarya can no longer be killed because the very few shots that can seep through the tiny gap when Barrier's down do no fucking damage to her
Yeah that's smart
Zarya's barrier can absorb an entire D.va ult facefirst, the last thing we need to make Zarya even more broken is make it so yet another character can only charge her endlessly and never kill her.
>>344650216
>there is no long range hitscan offensive hero
S76 kinda fills this roll if you just shoot in bursts
>>344649225
If a team stacks multiple heroes then it forces the other team to switch to accommodate and counter. Removing hero stacking shitcans this strategy, and thus removes skill and decision making = bad.
>>344650276
A good junkrat is a pain in the fucking ass, I will admit
But if you can't counter him with at least half the cast you just fucking suck
>>344650514
You could always tone down the shield, ya know.
>>344650232
>implying you can get off all 6 shots before the stun ends
It only works if you shoot someone a couple times first before doing the flash+fan combo, but why bother doing that when you can just go Roadhog and hook+M1 kills every non-tank instantly, plus you have more health and a self-heal with no meaningful drop in mobility because McCree's roll has shit for mobility.
A good player can do decently as McCree, the problem is why bother when Roadhog does literally everything except mid-range hitscan better than McCree does.
- Return fan damage to 75 per shot with a 4.5 second cooldown on fan itself.
- Make Roadhog's hook interrupt+immobilize instead of stun.
McCree is buffed back to being useful, he can't doublefan tanks anymore, Roadhog gets a slight nerf that still lets him do his job but he has to be pickier with his targets instead of spamming his combo on everyone, McCree fucks over everyone that Roadhog can't.
>>344644437
>has a combo that's all but guaranteed to kill any character that's not a tank
had*
>>344650549
you're not wrong.
but mccree in the hands of a good player should be like widowmaker, where you don't want to be in his line of sight.
like seriously, i think if he did 75 damage no matter the range i think he wouldn't be broken.... granted maybe reduce his fire rate a tiny bit.
ofcourse soldier can kill shit at longer range but really he is a mid range character, like Mccree right now.
>>344650684
but that's her entire schtick. that'd be extremely stupid
>>344650691
Yeah pretty much this, even if a player is amazing at landing shots and never miss they'll be far better using heroes like Roadhog, Widow or Soldier to a better effect right now.
>>344650514
Regardless of how good of an idea you think this might be, it will never happen for a simple reason: it's not intuitive to the player.
This is why people on /v/ would make shitty game designers. You want to give one character in the game an attack that only deals bonus damage against heroes of a specific "class"? That's very weird, and exists nowhere else in the game. How would you tell players about this? How would they even know? Even if you told them, people probably wouldn't understand what a "tank" is and isn't.
There are much more intuitive ways to buff McCree. You guys are talking about some really hamfisted ideas. What's next, McCree deals bonus damage against heroes that are purple? McCree deals bonus damage against female heroes?
Come on. When they do end up buffing McCree again, it will be some small numeric change to his damage values or cooldowns, not some hamfisted change like what you guys are describing.
>>344650760
It's already overpowered. Not only does it absorb damage, but it empowers her weapon AND prevents CC effects. They could easily tone it down without making it useless.
>>344644536
>barely kills 200hp heroes
>barely kills 13/21 heroes
I'm playing the worlds smallest violin for you here
>>344643952
I like playing him even though I get my ass kicked.... I must hate myself
>>344650738
Fuck that, how are you going to make a character that's a god at both close and long range?
unbalancable.
Mccree should just be a midrange character with a stun and roll for when shit gets wild.
Put his fan on a cooldown and make his stun last 1 second.
>>344650959
It's literally all she does.
Other than her shields she has no utility, mobility and without charge she does no damage.
At least her shields take skill to use and have counterplay. Unlike something like hook.
>>344643952
>Genji
>Wasted slot
The fucks wrong with you
>>344651108
Tracer is better
>>344650627
There isn't skill and decision making in hero stacking, though. The counter to it is almost always hero stacking the counter to that class, which removes skill and decision making from the other side.
It's also just the correct answer almost every time.
>>344651024
what are you talking about? removing his damage drop off does not suddenly make him godlike in close range.
he's pretty shit in close range.
right now he's just a shittier soldier 76.
Mccree needs to be the long range offensive hitscan character.
>>344650216
There's not supposed to be a long-range hitscan attack hero because attack heroes are supposed to be mobile and close the difference to attack from mid or close range. Pharah and S76 can attack from long-range to bust a turret or Bastion, but are less effective. Long-range is more for defense heroes. McCree's problem as an attack hero is he has no effective mobility or defensive options. Combat roll is shit for mobility and has no iframes; it's purpose is to close the distance when you're already mid-range so you can follow-through with an immediate fan or headshot. Stun is too short to be an effective defensive option; it's mostly used to set up a fan or free headshot for damage. He's the shittiest attack character when it comes to what attack characters are supposed to do.
>>344651246
Or soldier needs to be nerfed because he's broken as fuck right now
ALRIGHT GUYS FAN FIXED
>Deals 65/55/45/35/35/35 damage per shot
still kills weak heroes like it's supposed to, doesn't kill tanks. Overall damage stays the same
hire me blizzard
>mcree can stun then kill tanks
>OP PLS NERF
>mei can chain freeze and kill tanks
>SHE DOESN'T NEED A NERF JESUS GIT GUD
>>344651278
well no, why can't there be a longer range offensive hero?
widowmaker used to be a pick on offense before the nerfs.
there's nothing wrong with making mccree effective at long range, because if someone gets real close to him he is probably fucked and can't do much about it.
>>344651482
nigger mei doesn't come even close to killing tanks, she can headshot you one when you're frozen
>>344651323
>nerf the most balanced hero in the game
>>344650932
Welcome to anon discussing videogames.
they should have bumped his stun time back up to balance out the fan nerf
its pretty easy for someone to mash their panic button and get out after the stun ends
>>344643952
Nice meme.
>>344651610
Pharah and Soldier 76 should be the 2 characters they use as a base of comparison when balancing the other heroes.
I just want a Damage Over Time class. Something with Fire, or poison. Anything that slowly drains peoples HP
:^) You could make it even more fun by having it drain health directly and no Shield/Armour
>>344650932
>This is why people on /v/ would make shitty game designers
you're not wrong because they keep posting shit like:
>>344650738
>>344650216
>>344651610
>a hero who's good at every situation ever is balanced
if anything he needs a complete rework. He doesn't fit a game like this, he's just a stereotypical fps guy not a hero with a role
>>344651753
Its called aiming. Just keep your crosshairs on the enemy and over a few seconds they die.
>>344651346
The problem with fan wasn't that one fan killed tanks, because you couldn't kill a tank in one flash+fan unless they were already hurt. The problem was you could very easily doublefan to kill tanks AND kill every non-tank in one flash+fan. Now you can't kill a non-tank in one flash+fan or flash+headshot unless they have 150 health or don't have a mobility or defensive skill (so no to Genji, Reaper, another McCree, Mei, Pharah, Mercy if she can shift, etc.) but you can still doublefan every non-tank except D.Va, and you can doublefan D.Va if you stun her first.
>>344651493
I'm just saying what Blizzard considers "attack" and "defense" heroes. Yes, Widow used to be a pick on offense but her role was to mostly stay put and snipe, which is the exact same as her role on defense. Attack characters are supposed to be mobile and close the distance. If McCree specialized in long-range hitscan he'd be a defense hero because of what Blizzard considers for classification.
>>344651858
howd i maek girl characterz if not boobie nakedd? ?
>>344650691
I agree with the balance to this post except for the numbers. Imo, giving McCree the ability to melt anyone again is still too much. Like, only needing two shots from FtH to kill Genji, Tracer or Zenyatta is too strong, when flashbang > headshot still works just as well with less reaction time.
If I were to balance McCree, it would go;
- Fan the Hammer damage to 60-30, add 6 second cooldown OR reloads from roll don't allow FtH for 6 seconds
- Increase basic attack range to 25-40, increase minimum damage to 40 (Or 38, for double headshot squishies)
These would help weed the shitters from good players, while make him more viable than now and less deadly than release.
>>344651753
DOT is fucking cancer.
Maybe have a vampire type class with one ability that slowly drains your health if you're hit by it.
Something like Widow's trap where they take 75 damage over time.
>>344651753
Didn't Blizzard already state that they don't want to add any more DoTs? Widow's mine is the only exception since they removed the bleed effect from genji
>>344651179
Genji kills turrets though, tracer sucks dick at that
That being said, Torb is shit, so thats not really a factor.
Genji's still good though. Probably best off just playing whatever one you're best with if you haven't gotten gud with Tracy yet
>>344651753
necormancer support
drain enemy life to fuel some other abilities to heal allies
could be some talon asshole that swiped mercy's shit and turned it all evil
>>344652008
Got a feeling Sombra is gonna be a life stealing support going off what blizz teased on twitter
>>344651858
>>344650738
>>344650216
>Rule 63 image
>Of the character they're saying should be literally unbeatable at any distance in an equal skill matchup
Opinions thoroughly disregarded
>>344652119don't crush my dreams like this, anon.
>>344651996
A tracer that can manage her blinks and get headshots is a nightmare, with Genji it mostly comes down to if he can jump and do his combo at close range.
>>344651919
who the fuck cares about the classifications?
and yes sniping vital targets on attack or killing people to eventually break their defense seems like a good idea to have on a offensive hero.
Hell, Mccree isn't very mobile to begin with, i bet noone at blizzard cares about the classifications.
and buffing mccrees long range capabilitys isn't really turning him into a sniper it just makes him less shit at longer ranges.
>>344652008
Reaper isnt edgy enough for you eh? Now every role has to have somebody for the shadowthehedgehog crowd?
>>344651875
when nobody else is a stereotypical fps guy it's still a niche you dingus
>>344651935
The point of combat roll is to use it to close the distance and then immediately fan after. He has an entire highlight intro showcasing this. 4.5 second cooldown after a fan works because it's the time it takes to reload and fire 6 shots normally. 6 would be too much.
While stun+fan could potentially melt any non-tank pre-nerf, the thing with McCree is doing so pops all his cooldowns and he has zero mobility besides his shitty roll, so he's extremely vulnerable. If you fuck it up, don't ambush someone or aren't in a 1v1 situation then he's ass. He was supposed to be a one-trick pony, the problem was the doublefan.
>>344651875
>he doesn't fit the game because I want CoD normies OUT
He's a well rounded offensive hero that excels at mid range combat. He's literally the character which others are based around with their niches.
I was watching Gods from Luminosity pubbing last night on Twitch.
He was maining Soldier but then this one team started to get the best of him so he switched to Mcree and won.
That'sounds why you morons don't design games.
76 was designed on purpose to be super normie tier. The same as Reaper.
They are the base design that all of the wacky characters are contrasted against.
i miss TF2s shotgun.
i want another shotgun character.
preferably with lucio wallriding. i bet that could be fun.
All these Genji main naruto weebs in the thread getting butthurt cause he called their favorite character bad... Please don't pick genji even though you love naruto.
>>344652431
I see your point about the time it takes for the shots and I agree. But I specifically said "reloads from roll," so that way he can still close the distance to FtH someone's face in. I know the double fan was the problem, but removing it completely just makes him as garbage as he would be broken in terms of burst damage. With the range buff, he could do some sort of work while always having the option to flank or rush with FtH, provided he reloads prior, also assuming we're talking about my roll nerf.
This way, he can't kill a shitty Zarya or one off cooldown, or any 150 in two shots, but allowing him to be able to take down everyone under 300 while having him not able to instantly get back up to do it to another person. This way, when he goes in, he goes ALL in. The buff would allow him to be able to team fight and defend better, while also having him be able to harass harder from more distance than in their faces, compensating for losing double fan. I mean for Christ's sake, this man holds a revolver that has damage over range, but shuriken thrown by hand has no drop off? Cyborg or not, that doesn't make sense in my book.
Thoughts?
>>344653092
Probably because he was countering problematic heroes. OW is mostly about strategy.
>>344646630
Not the guy you are responding to, but you can't start shooting before the entire throwing animation is done.
>>344643952
He just got overnerfed a bit, fan shots should do 15 more damage.
He should be a squishy killer if thats what he was meant to be, but his damage was retarded making him the best hero to kill both Tanks and Squish, along with barriers
The real shame is that the character is fucking boring whether hes overpowered or shit
The problem is that Blizzard has no idea how to balance around what the character is supposed to do. They outright said in the patch notes, he's supposed to vape squishy flankers and he was being nerfed because they didn't want him vaping tanks. Well he can't vape squishy flankers anymore besides Tracer. If they want him to be able to kill Genji et al. but also think his current damage is fine, then they should nerf Genji et al. down to 150 health so he can reliably kill them. Additionally, doublefan still kills every tank except D.Va and she dies if you flashbang her first, so they failed at that part as well. An effective buff and/or retool needs to consider that his intended role is to reliably kill squishy flankers without reliably burning through tanks.
>>344654486
>pubs
>strategy
Pubbing OW is all about the team you get stuck with. Even just one player not pulling their weight even in a non-competitive setting can spell defeat, even if the rest of the team is on point.
>>344656745
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you use the word "vape"
>>344643952
More like Blizzard is fucking retarded and can't balance, they should of nerfed the dmg from 70 to 50 on FTH. Blizzard can only make characters OP or UP because they love the FotM gimmick as it keeps retards eating their shit up, like WoW.
>>344644474
>Now he is still strong
No he's not. He's a wimp, flashbang is 100% of his toolkit right now and his role in a team is to be the guy who switches to Reaper or Soldier 76.
>>344643952
>GENJI IS BAD
OP is a faggot shitter is not a meme, what the hell.
>>344643952
His ult is too binary. It is either super OP or super shit. Needs a complete rework.
>Junkrat is a defense hero with a lot of mobility and a passive that forces you to be in the middle of the fight
>Mccree is a offensive hero that is great for killing flankers and is barely mobile
I will never understand this shit
