>The only successful MMO in the past 6 years is a WoW clone
>And It sucks dick
How to revive this genre?
>>344604793
>is a WoW clone
Can you tell us how HW is a "wow clone"? What features makes it to be a clone?
Inb4
>I-it has dungeons
>Y-you can jump
Not even the gameplay is similar.
>>344605413Holy trinity
>>344605413
Anon, please. You can bait better then this.
>>344605668
Like 99% of RPG games? Even Dragon Age Origins has the holy trinity.
>>344605775
Indeed.
>>344605668
Even tabletops have holy trinities in some respects, there is literally nothing wrong with having holy trinities it keeps you from dealing with shitheaps like gw2.
>>344605830
You don't play a lot of rpgs do you?
>>344604793
>How to revive this genre?
Bring back the sandbox MMO.
>>344605413
>relevant pve content releases once a year featuring 2 dungeons to repeat every day 5 for days of the week, a raid consisting of 4 boss fights, and some large party dungeons developed so that your little brother's playmate could beat it blindfolded
>gameplay consisting of optimal damage 'rotations' that are repeated exactly the same in every fight and the only difference in gameplay comes from dodging what the boss throws at you
>a gear treadmill with only linear progression
>a class system with only linear progression
the game is fucking bad
Make it a smaller more contained experience and make it a sandbox. Alternatively burry the genre entirely and never make a new one again
>>344607427
That's how the game was in 1.0 before it was considered "a wow clon". So...what's your point?
Yeah it has the MMO base. It doesn't make it a WoW clone. The gameplay and content is diferent enought.
>>344607427
>>relevant pve content releases once a year
>relevant pve content releases once a year
Well it's been 1 year since HW was released and we are on 3.3
Meanwhile...in WoD.
>>344605413
>Can you tell us how FF14 is a wow clone?
*I* can't personally since I have never made a game before, but yoship can tell you how it is one. :^)
>>344605413
hehe
>>344604793
>successful
>5 million copies sold but has only retained 400k-600k during its entire lifetime
>base game literally goes for $5 every week and it's been in two bundles already
>>344607934
if i recall, raids are released every other patch in ffxiv... so that's still 2 raid tiers to each game no? either way it's inexcusable for either game. they're both fucking garbage
Oh look, it's this thread again.
>>344604793
It really does suck when you know the full context and thus know that the genre could have been so much better, but the "massively successful" ones are the worst that the genre has to offer.
WoW's popularity is not because lel SO GUD EPIK GAEM! but because of circumstances that were a perfect storm situation to make WoW the standard, sadly, in the budding genre.
It is a very important fact that the meme sometime you hear spouted in MMORPGs >Wow was the first MMORPG
is indeed not true.
With Ultima Online building a player base for Everquest and then Blizzard joining the MMORPG fray with their own game at a time when people were starting to get tired of Everquest COMBINED with their legions of Blizzardrones from all their other games indeed making their (the blizdrones) first MMORPG WoW.
So this massive player-base inevitably lead to more snowballing a la TV commercials bragging about 10 million players and YOU TOO THE NORMIE CAN JOIN IN ON!
Skip forward a few years, now, when you have WoW starting to die and people get bored of it finally and looking to still play MMORPGs, they bandwagon onto the next "most popular" MMORPG "of the time". Again we have another perfect storm situation since the game also brings a legion of Final Fantasy fans, and including many FF11 fans (although often FF11 fans complain that FF11 is better).
Personally, even though I have played a decent amount of FF14. I will FULLY admit I would have touched or certainly not played it as a long if it didn't have the Final Fantasy settings/theme/chars in it, because the game as a game is absolute trash. Graphics are great, char customization pretty damn good, but the gameplay is atrocious, especially with a modern MMORPG still using tab-targeting makes it really boring.
>>344605413
>using warrior, the one and only really complex class with a complex rotation to claim the entire game isn't casual trash
Try making that kind of graphic/chart with ANY other class and it won't look 2deep4u no matter how hard you try.
>>344610081
Most DPS and DRK are more complex than WAR.
>>344605924
but machinist is a shit class
>>344610081
>warrior, the one and only really complex class with a complex rotation
lol wut
I play warrior because it's so simple and easy. Dark Knight is more complicated and MP management can be very annoying and fuck you up big time, and it's still not as good a tank as WAR.
>>344610246
>DPS
>ever complex at ANY level in any game ever period
Sure
>DRK
Granted I haven't played it yet, I heard it is "complex" but somehow I doubt it is bad as all the tryhards make it out to be :^)
>>344611770
Compared to all the other classes, it is. No one is saying FF14 as a whole is a complex hardcore MMORPG, but for what it has, warrior is the "hardest" but that hardest isn't very hard compare to other games.
Hell, FF14 is tab-targetting, so it already loses most need for skill.
>>344609773
Why hasn't any MMO perfected tab targeting.
>tab target
>targets enemy across the map instead of the one hitting you
>>344612413
>ever complex at ANY level in any game ever period
>Sure
>thinks ff14 warrior is most complex class in the game
You are an idiot
why can't you faggots in both groups ever shut the fuck up about each others game
>>344612413
>ever complex at ANY level in any game ever period
How to spot someone who hasnt played any melee in 14
They woulldnt make SAM a Tank right
R-Right?
>>344612646
>>344613134
>DPS is HARD FOR ME!!! WAAAAAH!!!
Looks like some people need to git gud at playing video games. :^)
>>344612413
>>ever complex at ANY level in any game ever period
And you think WAR is the most complex.
lmao
>>344613241
>thinks ff14 warrior is most complex class in the game
You are an idiot
>>344612597
There's options for that if I remember right. Look through the key binds, there's a lot of things that aren't assigned.
>>344613241
no one has said its hard, but its harder than wow dps.
you're just an autistic fag who thinks everything has to be complex as hell
>>344613289
>>344613365
>>344613468
Retards that can't into context.
No wonder you are bad at even simple DPS classes in MMORPGs
>>344613289
Complex compared to facerolling yes, it is. And if you can't understand this, you are indeed retarded.
I've ALREADY said it but since retards can't into "hard reading", I'll repeat for idiots: Literally no one said Warrior was complex or hard compared to ALL other games. It is objectively more complex though compared to other classes in FF14 and ONLY within FF14 is the discussion.
Objectively speaking, it is more complex compared to certainly dps since Warrior is a tank. If you can't grasp this simple concept than you are fucking retarded and no wonder you play DPS.
>>344613365
Not an argument
Why didn't you propose another class that is "more complex"
Oh yeah, you can't
>>344613468
The context IS within FF14 and FF14 ONLY but since clearly you are too retarded to follow context you made the retarded comment you just made ;^)
Keep it coming boys; I love making people look dumb.
>>344612413
Play blm you tank shitter.
>>344614451
Boy, someone is mad that he can't into WAR.
Couldn't get into it. The combat felt too floaty. The leveling experience was a complete chore. All I saw in the environment were people running in straight lines to the next Fate.
The leveling is an absolute bore. Quest consist of /emotes, kill 12x boars, /emote, watch cutscene. Everyone is a c@ girl. The capital cities are separated by zones so it doesn't even feel like a city. Invisible walls everywhere.
I don't understand those bullshit pictures that they post against WoW.
>let's take tab target combat
>but give them 30 buttons
>wow complex game, it's better than WoW!
No it's fucking not, suffers from the same boring shit WoW does. At some point it just becomes a chore and comes to muscle memory. I don't give a shit about move weaving and combo attacking, give me interesting content. The enemies you fight are a complete chore and don't provide a challenge at all. You just press your predetermined rotation. There is no actual interaction with the enemies. I only got my WAR to 43 so I can't make any judgement about the endgame. Call it better than WoW all you want, it's just another turd with a different color of paint. But also this is like my opinion. I can see why people like it but I want something new.
>>344614451
>The context IS within FF14 and FF14 ONLY but since clearly you are too retarded to follow context you made the retarded comment you just made ;^)
I bet you havent even cleared nidhog ex as a dps let alone done it with more than 1k dps... keeping a high dps while dealing with mechanics is what makes figths hard... if not, then get out and play some hardcore game alone
>>344615641
>>344615641
>>344615992
Post more boob jiggle, any game is fine. My dick demands it.
>>344604793A MMO dying doesn't mean it wasn't successful.Look up MMO business practices and you'll see that it's milked until it dies then they move on. An entire industry is built around this.TOR is a standard success ever since it went F2P
>>344610081
Warrior is one of the least complex level 60 rotations, it's not even the most complex tank rotation since DRK is more complex. WAR is just used more often because it performs better than DRK because of shit balance
>>344613191
It's been a tanky job in every FF game so probably.
I just started A Realm Reborn like last month and I am lvl 32 currently. The story is cliche and generic and it isn't giving me that "Final Fantasy" adventure feel that I have been craving so for long. Does Heavesward fix that? Heard it takes upward to 60 hours to finish the main story.
>>344616949
ARR story is not 60 hours to finish on its own if you rush through it (make sure you use all your leveling roulettes on one class if you want to rush the story). The story is typical FF fare with better world building up to the end of 2.0 (when you beat Ultima Weapon). The story leading up to Heavensward is pretty good and the happenings right before Ishgard are pretty great.
I don't see how you can say it's cliche and generic when it's an FF game, they all are the most cliche and generic JRPGs around.
>>344616949
Literally better storyline at level 10 in FFXI than there is in that whole fucking game. Sat through the whole thing being able to guess what was going to happen next.
Zzzzzz
>>344616949
Become interesting at like 2.4 then shit again at 3.1.
I still don't understand why nobody just makes a 1:1 copy of burning crusade with updated graphics.
>>344617198
I am talking Heavesward taking up 60 hours by itself. How long would take me to reach the end of the latest story line quests?
>>344617371
well if theses fuckers ever played FFXI when it was literally what every person bitches about wanting in the dayy and age but back then called too hard ex
earn your maps
no tutorials
weapson skill combo system that you actually have to time your attacks with your party memebers for optimum damage.
and armor swapping that actually had meaningful effects
can de-level from death fighting things you shouldnt
and actual challenging expansion CoP being one of the best expansions in any mmo ever for forcing you to use your brain aand not your level to when fights, then SE would have tried harder to remake that rather than say fuck it you slow weebs can have water down mechanics and eat this shit up
>>344610081
>Warrior
>Complex
The Fisher class is literally more complex than Warrior
>>344608514
>if i recall, raids are released every other patch in ffxiv... so that's still 2 raid tiers to each game no? either way it's inexcusable for either game. they're both fucking garbage
But trials are released every patch as well as other content. FF14 only tryhards care about the raids.
>>344616949
Late 2.0 -> end of 3.0 story is godlike. Binding Coil story is neat if you played 1.0 at all. The rest is kinda meh.
The biggest problem with FFXIV is the dogshit itemization and that there's like 5 relevant stats and only 2 pieces of gear for each item level.
Would guys recommend the private servers for FFXI or just buy it on steam?
>>344618857
I really don't care about end game stuff. How long would it take to reach the final main-story quest line? Let's say I play 4 hours a week on average.
I just want to know if I could finish it before University starts in a month.
>>344618897
id just buy it on steam for all expansions, get the private server if you wanna try how it was years ago which isnt bad but you have a cut off point between players who like the old style pre Abyssia and the remaning players who didnt give a fuck about abyssia making all the old end game armor sorta obselete
>>344619104
its very quick if you have a friend clearing your first job to 50 gets you through 2.0 release and if you have a friend to play with and take healer or tank job( or take them yourself) you que up in story mode dungeons much faster and now you can try them with under the required amount of people i believe
>>344619150
Which one can I mostly solo? Never played XI before btw.
>>344612413
>Granted I haven't played it yet, I heard it is "complex" but somehow I doubt it is bad as all the tryhards make it out to be :^)
Yeah it can be pretty rough, and dps can fuck your shit by pulling early or whatever, but you have an mp management rotation, a high damage rotation, a threat rotation, and a rotation that you use when you aren't using DA.
It's not like super complicated, you can pick it up pretty quickly, but between two damage ticks to keep up, 3/4 rotations and cycling cooldowns you can juggle also cycle in and out of grit in order to get one of your better damage buffs.
>>344619331
Sadly, i don't know anyone. Might as well marathon it for the next couple of weeks and see if i can clear it all.
>>344607934
>That's how the game was in 1.0 before it was considered "a wow clon". So...what's your point?
You never played 1.0 before Yoshi came
>main scenario roulette still broken
>still cant watch cutscenes and do the fights, you get to pick one or the other
why wont they fix the finale of their game? its kind of a big deal
eve is the only mmo worth playing
>>344619498
Because putting long cutscenes in the middle of multiplayer content is fucking stupid
listen i have been playing warrior since 2.0 came out, the most "complex" thing about it is keeping either or both debuffs up and using your stacks in the right way for the current mob group
other than that it is kinda simple
>>344619498
You can watch the cutscenes in your room/house/inn room
>>344619346
ffxi you can solo pretty much by yourself now that they have records of valor which basically gives you a set of monsters around your level to beat for a chunk of exp but mainly just que for parties after level 10 when you have a handle of your jjob >vulkrum dunes >20 qufim> no sure what the new level area is for here but once you up there exp is easier to get in a party but you can solo all the story content by yourself now because they released the level caps on the old stuff but id do CoP at 30 since it defines the game really and being over leveled kills the challenge. everything else once you hit 75 as a NIN,WAR,RDM or blue with competence you can solo or be a smn and kite the shit out of it since you health is gonna be huge at 75
>>344620195
But then their out of context anon their meant to be watched in the dungeon in conjunction with the fights
>>344605924
That is sad, but wtf would you need all those skills for in a 2.5 gcd game?
>>344620413
>But then their out of context anon their meant to be watched in the dungeon in conjunction with the fights
If you really care that much be sociable enough to make friends in the game that will run it with you. Ya know it's compulsory to use duty roulette
>>344620272
Thank god i can solo it. You got me pumped, anon. Gonna start it next weekend hopefully. Any class you would recommend that can hold me till end game? Also, this might seem like a broad question: But what makes this game "SO GOOD!"? I want to finish it because it is the only Final Fantasy game i did not finish. What exactly am i in for?
>>344620572
>Get 8 friends together or you cant experience the ending story in a FF game
Remind me again why they put in duty finder and put main scenario on a roulette??
>>344621103
>Remind me again why they put in duty finder and put main scenario on a roulette??
If you're just gonna be retarded I'm gonna stop answering you.
It's for people who don't understand that they're playing an mmo that's meant to you know, go out and play with people instead of being forever alone.
>>344621225
That's what the duty finder does for you anon
>>344620696
glad to hear it
starting as warrior if you want to get all your combat skills capped fast
go monk if you like fast paced damage but your not as atanky as a war
rdm is great jjob to level for mid-late content but youll be bored at early levels
blm is always wanted for anything
BLU/NIN/DNC these are the best jobs for dps aside from drk
blu you have to fight monsters and get hit by there sig moves multiple times to gain the move
nins bounce shadows to main tank and have the fastes dps melee in the game
dancers are just fun i cant really explain it past that
smns are the fuck it im done with trying to strategize just kite it til i can think of something job for soloing and are pretty much self sufficient once you have alll your summons though you have to go on quest to unlock them in solo fights at 20 which requires you to build up fame in each nation through quest grinding which sucks
for me the draw was always:
exploration was always a mystery since you had to get up cp or find a way to get a map to an area as a reward.
each job system is unique in playstyle nothing rreally ever overlaps aside from pld/runfencer and they are different enough to not seem like your playing the same job
the story is actually really really deep except for Treasure of aht arghan
weaponskills chains in the game are great once you get them down and the Magic burst makes it so mages arent left out in importance
the raid modes are all great but can get hectic
you can mix and match jobs/sub jobs to make your own playstyle though most people really only try 1-3 different combinations on most jobs.
sub jobs in themselves really open up a world of possibilities and functions
your armor effects how your spells work and macros matter when swapping during skill chains to optimize your efficiency.
doing random quest actually rewards you with spells you otherwise wouldn't unlock such as sleep 2 etc
when you hit 75 youll feel like a god for a bit til you hit abbyssia.
>48k eso for 240 relic
What were they thinking?
>>344622252
Saved. You are a fucking saint, anon. Thanks!
>>344622352
the relic is pretty much used for padding patches at this point.
>>344622252
the music for every area is memorable
boss fights are challenging and intuitive the little things make you really appreciate detail such as when you fight dragons standing on there front legs stops them from flying and if your behind them they used tailswipe which normallly one shots anyone dumb enough to be back there without warnning.
the mini dungeons introduced in TOA are some of the funniest unique missions ever
you can create your own mini dungeons
it has a pokemon battle Colosseum mode
story progression is a really satifying thing and alot of it comes just from how challenging it can be, used to be up til 3am in the moring trying to finish promy runs and dynamis then it became nyzul isle and salvage
>>344621103
>put in duty finder and put main scenario on a roulette??
Because forcing people who have already done it to do it again for a reward is the only way newer players will finish it
>>344605413
It's the exact same themeparked linear as fuck quest chain bullshit where everything is instanced so every casual baby can be a champion too instead of enforcing actual competition. And there's even no fucking pvp outisde of a shitty arena nobody cares about so all that you do is go through your linear themepark ride where absolutely nothing you do throughout the journey matters at all, then you reach the max level so you start doing the exact same fucking dungeon grinding for an arbitrarily higher gear score so you can do the same fucking dungeon to get higher gear score ad infinitum for no fucking reason at all whatsoever. This game is a boring piece of shit that has fucking nothing to do, it's the most redundant game ever. And only when you reach the absolute maximum level will you even bother comunicating with other players because you don't need to party up with fucking nobody throughout your """""journey""""", so it's essentially a single player shitfest with mute people running on the background. And even if you feel like going through some shitty scripted dungeon that plays out the exact same everytime, you can do so through a tool that will automatically assemble your party. Great massive online experience you have there.
You see, MMOs are all trash right now because there is no longer a sense of adventure. Everything is instanced, party making is automated, you don't have to actually talk to people to get shit done and there's no sense of risk/reward. You have a dead-set path in front of you and you CANNOT deviate from it one inch. Just keep following your linear quest chain like a mule and that's it.
They casualized this genre beyond salvation by listening to all the non-fans who always cried about how they have 5234908752930 jobs and 492380570 children at the forums because things took some effort to get instead of being handed out to you in a silver platter and FFXIV is the incarnation of all that is wrong with this shitty dead genre.
>>344622891
That's really all its ever been
>>344623874
damn man we just like chillin in trade chat fuck
>>344605413
You know, if playing FFXIV has made me realize anything it's that i prefer a priority type of system over set in stone rotations. With the combos, all the OGCD button bloat shit etc. in FFXIV you literally go on suicide watch the moment you mess up even once, because EVERY single skill is designed to be pressed at an exact moment, DOTS last exactly as long as it takes your rotation to rotate back around when you're supposed to refresh etc.
Hit one button wrong and everything goes to shit and it takes 1 minute to recover. It's really just no fun, especially when sometimes boss mechanics make it extra clunky to perform your rotation. Dragoons Geriskogul is probably the most cancerous designed shit i've ever seen in an MMORPG
>>344625698
I'll never see the problem people have with dragoon's rotation, specifically with gierskogul. It's pretty easy if you think about it like a full rotation is about 10 seconds, and gierskogul basically cuts off a full rotation's worth of "safety" for your BotD.
Anyways, isn't Bard a "priority" based rotation? I haven't leveled it much but I've read someone explain it like that.
>>344622352
I'm hoping they add some other way to get Umbrite. I don't mind if I have to do more beast tribe quests, maps, aquapolis, or even Palace of the Dead. I just want more options than grinding 48k eso
>>344626302
Have they actually needed any parts of the relic? I remember seeing threads and posts all the time when they did with ARRs relics but haven't really any for the HW ones.
>>344626832
>needed
Meant nerfed
>>344626904
They nerfed the Crystal phase for HW. They also made it easier with how quickly moogle tokens pile up at max rank. The crystals were the only actual nerf with the increased drop rate.
I want an MMO with good combat, is that so hard? Hell id take ffxiv with GW2 combat rather than the tab targeting trash ff is, and GW2s combat wasnt even as bad as some faggots make it out to be.
>>344625698
>prefer a priority type of system over set in stone rotations. With the combos, all the OGCD button bloat shit etc
Play BRD then.
BRD and MCH are basically polar opposites from a rotation standpoint. One has a lot of snap judgments needed w.r.t prioritizing one gcd over another, the other is just playing out variations of the exact same combo in cycles of 1:30.
>>344606186
>Bring back the sandbox MMO.
People have tried. It doesn't work. Customers aren't going to hang around asking for parties when the easier options exist.
>>344627034
Those moogle quests are the bomb, ez crafter leveling and the heap of tokens you get cut down the work on the worst step of the relic (well, 2nd worst now that umbrite is a thing).
>>344628252
>mfw getting 2 or 3 quests that don't even make you craft anything
>>344604793
>How to revive this genre?
Stop making meme action shit and bring back open PvP.
>>344618630
>only tryhards care about the raids.
Anon, I can't even draw up a metaphor to show you how dumb this statement is.
>only tryhards care about content
This is as retarded as it gets.
>>344628496
Action combat can stay just make it good, like TERA but better
>>344628828
GW2 combat - if it wasn't for tab targeting - would be a great example of combat mechanics.
Encounter design on the other hand...
>>344605924
Jesus, did they gut hunters that much in legion? I was raiding in mop and the first half of wod, and i remember using at least 2 and a half hotbars.
TOUCH THE DEMON INSIDE ME SLAYER OF GOBLINS
>>344631281
Oh I'll touch that demon alright
*unzips dick*
>>344632027
>>344629169
GW2 would have been good if Anet wasn't so obsessed with catering to casuals and removing any and all depth and competitiveness
>>344605668
Cause Wow invented that?
This is what Blizzard fags think
>>344632084
>>344605924
Wow just WOW!
>>344632183
>>344632242
>>344632305
>>344632385
Is it worth getting into FFXIV at this point? I enjoyed my time with the trial but I'm really put off by having to buy it like a full game and then pay a sub on top of that.
>>344632461
>>344632508
Wait for sale or free week, desu. That humble bundle a while ago was selling FF14 for a buck. You can do most of the story in a month if you NEET out, can decide to sub later.
>>344632540
>>344632634
and then the old elezen had enough of balmung's shit and killed himself
>>344616949
The story is bad and never gets good, don't listen to what anything anyone else says.
It's also impossible to follow if you actually want to play the game, since everything is locked behind tedious story quests that do nothing but test your patience, so if you're like 80% of the player base you'll just skip the cutscenes once you have the gist of what's going on, since they're all the fucking same static shot of 2-4 people talking and emoting at each other over whatever maguffin of the patch is destroying the world or what the fuck ever.
>>344622352
To make you use roulettes to keep the game alive and prevent people from exhausting the paper thin content each patch adds in the form of gear lockouts and absurdly long grinds doing the same thing you've been doing since the game came out.
>>344620538
they have off GCD abilities that you use inbetween the 2.5sc,A monk in my statics GCD could be reduced to under a second if I rememberto fill in the gaps.
>>344632721
I get why people type out their actions bit that shit makes me cringe hard. I don't think RPing is that bad [spoiker]ERP is cancer and those degenerates need to be shot on sight[/spoiler] but narrating every action you do is annoying.
How is BDO?
I thought it was doing pretty good
Never played it so I'm thinking of getting into it
>Watch videos of others playing XIV
>They're constantly pressing the ability while it's cooling down
Yamero.
>>344622352
to make you feel extra awful for needing a catch up mechanic
>>344610081
>WAR
>COMPLEX
lol no. War is the easiest melee class of the game.
>>344637134
>hit a couple oGCD skills quickly
>one of them doesn't register
MASAKA
>>344636634
don't get your hopes up, m8
>>344637134
In WoW I had to create a macro for my hunter so I didn't receive the "YOU CAN'T DO THIS AT THIS MOMENT" error every second.
>>344638340
Or you could've spent 3 seconds googling it and installed ErrorFilter.
>>344633118
ADD detected
