>undead character
>is evil
Damn these rascals daring to cheat death instead of dying!
Well normally you have to do something morally questionable to cheat death, like take someone else's life. If you're directly killing people so you can live longer I'd say you're pretty evil.
>>344216865
moralfag sheeple go home
viva la skeleton
Fuck you, /tg/. "Good" Necromancers are such a tired and retarded concept, yet you Steven Universe-watching faggots keep trying to shove it in everywhere. It's like making good vampires and good werewolves. They're fucking monsters and abominations, but for some reason you have to try to be "clever" and "subvert" it because you read about it on tvtropes and think it's a good idea. Suck my dick, choke on it.
>>344216682
Anyone got the screenshot of the Awakened Skeleton undead hunter, or something along those lines?
I'd be pretty mad too if there wasn't any videogame with fun necromancy mechanics
>>344216997
But I don't like the concept of good necromancers. I've never even seen one.
>>344216997
dude subverting tropes lmao
>>344216997
take your baseless "moral standards" and judgemental name-calling elsewhere, cretin
What are the funnest necromancer games?
>>344216997
Necromancer is not the same as actual fucking undead you imbecile of course a good necromancer is retarded but there is no reason why every lich should be evil.
>>344216865
Warrior: "This man was a criminal, he deserved death!"
>My hero~~
Necro: "Yeah this dude was a criminal so I killed him, i also used some magic to live longer"
>Y-you monster!
???
>>344216997
Why would a hero resurrected as a skeleton against his own will necessarily be evil? What if he was Lawful Good in life and he kept his sanity in death?
>>344216997
Necromancy is simply a means to an end. There's lots of evil wizards out there who use evocation, conjuration, illusion, etc. to do evil upon the world. What's so terrible about a necromancer with a code of ethics? Consensual necromancy undertaken as a sort of posthumous indentured servitude? Or necromancy as a holy sacrament, seen as something of an honor for the deceased?
>>344216682
Just throw a phoenix down at them. Problem solved
>>344216997
Isn't /tg/ all about roleplaying?
Who cares about tropes if the character I want to play as right now is a good guy or not?
Where is it written that "monsters" can't be good guys?
I mean there are evil humans right?
You seem like a horrible person to play with
>>344217820
Well, strictly speaking, just because he's raised as a skeleton doesn't mean his soul is there. It could just be his remains animated by negative energy, which is elementally evil.
>>344216997
>doing something differently is always bad, it has to be this way because i said so
>>344217685
>Warrior
I gave him a quick and clean death as all men deserve
>Necro
His soul is bound to mine in unending torture as long as I live
>>344218008
Suppose his soul was severed from his body and only found its way back long after it had decomposed, leaving only bones? Or his deity intervened to troll the shit out of the necromancer?
>>344218407
if his body is literally powered by evil and spreads evil like its dark side plutonium he now self immolates to spare the world his existence
>>344216865
The idea of a vigilante necromancer could be fun. Drains the life force of criminals to fuel his own holy crusade. Could be good.
>>344216997
Naw fuck you. Nowhere in any rulebook is it written that necromancy and raising the dead is inherently evil. Heck paladins and clerics have reanimation spells out the ass - what's the difference between raising a recently deceased friend and reanimating a long-dead hero? Just some decomposition here and there.
>>344216997
>Any system with measurable morality or morality constants
Good and evil shouldn't be name tags you easily slap on whatever you want you uncultured retard. This is one of the reasons DND Is such a shitty system. It's not because "Wah this class has an evil requirement" it's that measuring morality like that is fucking retarded to begin with.
IN REAL LIFE you can have some guy that is your fucking hero, saves your life and becomes your friend. Then murders your wife a month later because she insulted him and no one insults him. Life is complicated and much more scary than everyone fitting neatly into easily identifiable good evil groups. It's not to say there isn't good, and there isn't evil. It's just not the kindergarten crayon drawing you want it to be.
Stupid shits like you are just the opposite side of the coin of the people you hate. There's one group that wants every character to be a misunderstood person, then there's the retards like you that want everything to be black and white and have no spill over. You're both fucking retarded.
>>344218785
I just want a /tg/ excuse for a friendly skeleton champion.
>>344217836
Nothing, also I remember a setting if anyone can help out.
Where demons invaded the world, there were two nations that survived. A hardcore paladin nation and the others used necromancy to summon their ancestors to fight on their behalf.
>>344218952
Coward spent life's savings to a wizard to revive a lost loved one. Wizard was a dank old hack, and revived him as a skeleton after he died of pneumonia instead.
Dude now wanders the world as a skelebro, righting the wrongs he couldn't back when he was enslaved by the flesh.
How's that?
>>344218838
thing is for every subversion of a concept there need to be at least 10 examples of it being played straight, otherwise you're changing the concept
if every undead you meet is an exception they stop being exceptions
>>344218821
there's a russian author who has that concept for a while in his book series, but the necromancer kinda goes rogue and starts getting hunted for doing some forbidden rituals later.
Dont think it has been translated into english though, honestly surprised since it is available in swedish.
Nick perumovs Keeper of the swords if anyone is interested.
>>344219649
I don't think that's necessarily the case.
You can still play against expectation without needing the constant reminder/proof (especially not in-world) that something is against the norm.
That's kind of the thing about it being against expectation. For example, I don't need to read 10 shitty posts in this thread to find a good one and be impressed by it.
Don't worry guys, I'm a good guy, I would never betray you all (again).
>>344220023
To be fair I'd totally follow the bitch queen if she decided to seccede from the Horde and form a third faction.
Blood Elves would be welcome to join if only the two races could stop hating one another for a minute
>>344219941
thing is you do that to much the expectation will be the exception rather than the norm, at this point you NEED to introduce the norm to avoid the exception from becoming the norm
>>344220023
fun fact: she has been fully redeemed and turned good because waifu status
seriously at this point: worst character in all of warcraft by far
>>344220315
I think it's all about context and scope.
If you're talking about one subset of nerds (/tg/) or even one single rp table/group, then yeah, you're bound to have readily and set-in-stone things based on what those specific people think are cool.
But when you open it up to something sufficiently large (such as the whole of literature, or culture in general), then you can actually have those things like "litches are usually portrayed as evil", and then you can actually play against that.
Trying to play the opposite of what jeff, the necromancer player, always does is kinda boring and vaguely pedantic imo. Thinking about "cool" and stuff on too low of a scope like that is a way to be bored and angry, in a lot of ways, I think.
>>344220246
I just don't know how anyone in the right mind could think she would be a good warchief.
>>344220465
Yeah and supposedly Illidan is going to be redeemed and turned into an angel of light. Next expansion we must be getting Arthas back too. I hope we get Kael'thas redeemed as well.
>>344220698
To be fair, which OTHER Horde faction leader has as much military experience as Sylvanas has?
She's perfectly qualified for the role, problem is she probably couldn't give less of a damn about Kalimdor as a whole and will probably leave the entire continent to burn to keep Undercity safe first chance she gets.
I'm still waiting for the eventual corruption reveal and raid announcement.
>>344220645
thing is fantasy creatures heavily depend on the setting
what you're creating is not a "oh this lich is good" but rather a "oh in this world ALL liches are good"
>>344221094
I'm not bothered about Sylvanas getting it
I'm bothered about her being forgiven ALL HER EVIL GOD DAMN ACTIONS AND EVERYONE WHO TRIES TO GET HER TO ATONE FOR THEM IS AUTOMATICALLY EVIL
its completely and utterly infuriating
>>344221094
How much military experience does Anduin have? The most important thing is that they can be a figure to rally around, someone that everyone respects and feels like they can trust. You can have military advisors to make up for your lack of experience. I see your point about there's not being many other worthy candidates, but at that point its just Blizzard having written themselves into a hole, which I guess I shouldn't be surprised about.
>>344221226
Again, I think there's room for both.
Just because you only experience the one good-litch character, that doesn't mean you can't have the context or the prior bias that the rest are/should be evil.
>>344221470
one good lich is not a problem
problem is if the only undead you meet is that one lich or worse if you meet several undead and all of them are good
and this is my opinion, but just making generally evil character type good to allow cooperating with good pc's is a fairly lazy way to handle it, better roleplay is to be found in useful or even necessary evil
>>344218386
Not my fault if you use shit and outdated techniques
>>344221710
I feel like at this point, you're reacting to individual players having fun rather than the concept they're playing being inherently flawed.
Just because "everyone" is doing something doesn't mean that something doesn't have a basis. And the players you're playing with aren't the whole of the world, setting, or collective unconsciousness of fantasy.
Now, having seen a thing before and being uninterested in the premise, that I can understand. But why not give your friend a chance, and see what story they have to share with you? It may be more than you expected at first.
>>344216682
Most well-written undead characters aren't evil. They're amoral. They've lived so long that it just doesn't really matter, and why should it?
It's hard to take a society's judgment of you seriously when you predate said society and will likely still be there long after it has turned to dust.
>>344216997
t. Paladin
>>344222127
paladin interaction with undead can be reasonable
now druids on the other hand? single undead holding back a horde of monsters? torch that fucker, death's part of life, he's not
>>344216682
Most fantasies play into the trope that a person's mortality is sacred and human's have a mortal soul.
>>344216997
>I-If I say they watch this tumblr show I've never seen i'll show them!!
Fuck off faggot
>>344216997
Werewolves are supposed to be normal people that turn into blood thirsty killers at night and might not even know it. A werewolf is only as evil as the atrocities it commits.
Vampires on the otherhand have had countless portrayls in fiction and roots in different legends. What makes a vampire evil is they need to drink human blood to live, which isn't actually all that evil. Therefore a vampire is usually as evil as you want them to be to the extent a person may even go under a personality change upon turning into one.
>>344216997
>good vampires and werewolves are retarded
Go fuck yourself, they're still sapient creatures with free will
>death
>not part of the natural cycle of life
Look, I'm not interested in explaining to a bunch of 90 IQ cretins why every organism having the potential to live forever could be a fucking problem for an exhaustable ecosystem.
>but le they were le black le leather xD neckromancers r cool af xD
Liches and necromancers are pure reddit tier.
>>344216997
This
>"DUDE WHAT IF *record scratch* *raises paw* *farts* *slips on banana peel* MONSTERS WERE THE GOOD GUYS AND GOOD GUYS WERE ACTUALLY BAD GUYS?"
WOW REDDI- I MEAN /v/, SO SUBVERSIVE
I think Might and Magic had good Necromancers
>>344216997
Necromancers can talk to the dead so they can do necromancy without anything questionable morality
>>344224004
I want to see a vampire freely walk in the sunlight without turning to ash or glittering like a faggot, and if you show me that I want to see a werewolf that doesn't have a forced shapeshift so he has free will of his transformations (not including game mechanics).
What about Neutral necromancers? Maybe they're just specialists in their field who can use their know-how for combat.
>>344226124
Most RPG settings, since most are fantasy version of medieval Europe, the reason why necromancers are evil is because they defile corpses and the wishes of the dead.
>>344226124
Xul pls go home
>>344226347
its interesting how the father of anatomy (in europe at least) literally had to go "The emperor of half the continent is my best friend, I dare you to arrest me" in order to kickstart his research
>>344226347
Don't necromancers have plenty of harm spells as well? Is it unviable to play a necromancer who only raises the corpses of slain foes and destroys them at the end of the day?
I don't really want to be edgy here, I'm just a bit fond of the idea of a necromancer who's more like a surgeon-mechanic of the soul or something.
>>344227140
generally speaking necromancy tends to fuck with people's souls which is a crime far and beyond murder to such a degree performing it on even a mass murdering psychopath is evil beyond compare
>>344227323
Source on that? I thought 'life energy' was different from a soul.
>>344227140
Plenty of settings have subverted "Evil Necromancers" so often, in so many different ways that it is honestly one of the most boring cliches in fantasy table top. I know it strikes many of you as being fresh but its been done almost constantly for the past 30 years in PnP.
>>344226784
>Holy Roman Empire
>1500
>half of Europe
Uh, no? What the fuck
>>344227582
Holy Roman Empire, Spain and a shitload of random territories everywhere on the mainland
it was pretty fuckhuge
SKELETON APOLOGISTS GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>344227810
what are Popeye's stats?
>>344227582
I assure you I'm not trying to offer any fresh takes. I just like the idea of specializing in the interaction of soul and matter as an academic discipline. I guess in something that has as long a history as Tolkien-inspired RPG, there's very little room to maneuver without bumping into clichés.
>>344227874
strength: Maximum
>>344227447
depends on the setting course, but often necromancy tends to be evil because messing with a soul is (understandably mind you) the most evil crime possible
>>344216682
>Betraying the purest waifu
Necromancers and Liches deserve what they get for their ignorance.
>>344216682
Sir daniel isn't evil at all.
