Why is Hitman 2016 the worst performing Hitman game?
Why did Hitman fans defend the episodic design decision?
>>344133386
I'm not buying early access episodic shit
Finish the game
Then you'll get my money
>Why did Hitman fans defend the episodic design decision?
Well, they clearly didn't.
>>344133386
You might see a rise in sales when the complete edition comes out.
>>344133553
No, not really. You only get one launch and they already blew it.
>>344133553
>You might see a rise in sales when the complete edition comes out.
I doubt it
Horribly incomplete early access games sell regardless because of good word of mouth
if Hitman 2016 was actually good, people would buy it in droves
>>344133726
But it is good. It's better than good. Only complaint people has is either wonky performance or episodic release. No one is accusing the game of having bad gameplay, well except for a few people whose first Hitman was Absolution and who expected another cinematic stealth game like that.
>>344133386
It sold like shit because there was no DALE edition
1. Sequels often get to suffer through the hangover of the disliked game that came before it.
2. The other games have had a bunch of sales
3. Those are just the PC sales. Which generally sell way less than their console counterpart.
200k sales is not too bad for PC
800k is basically hard limit for PC game in 2016 unless it's gta
>>344134334
>1. Sequels often get to suffer through the hangover of the disliked game that came before it.
Absolution has high user ratings on Steam
>2. The other games have had a bunch of sales
Hitman 1-4 released at a time where Steam wasn't important
>3. Those are just the PC sales. Which generally sell way less than their console counterpart.
*tips console dunce cap*
>>344133386
nobody likes episodes
>>344134493
http://steamspy.com/app/413150
Explain this then
It's even the same price as 1 episode of Hitman
>>344134625
>It's even the same price as 1 episode of Hitman
People don't buy hitman for 1 episode. It's still 60$ game.
DALE
>>344134812
It's kind of the whole point of episodic content
>>344133386
The reason I'm not playing it is the dumb "48 hours only assassinations do it now or do it never"
Oh, so either I buy every episode at full price or I don't get to play that part of the game?
And I already missed out on a part of the game that will never return?
yeah fuck off
>>344133386
no
that would be deserts of kaharak
>>344134949
It's not episodic like HL2 EP1/2, it's a regular game split into pieces and sold separately.
>>344135135
>48 hours only assassinations do it now or do it never
What the fuck?
>>344135135
All they do is unlocking some extra suits afaik and I'm pretty sure they'll be available again once the full game is out.
>>344135213
>it's a regular game split into pieces and sold separately.
Which will be complete shit because they'll under deliver on the games content due to the substandard sales
>tfw the gameplay is really solid
>tfw the game is ruined because of Jewish tactics
>>344135678
Yeah it feels like Square Enix sacrificed this game just to test out a new business model.
>>344135838
post yfw this blunders and FF7 remake won't be episodic after all
I've already given up on the FFVII remake, episodic or not, so nothing but disappointment here.
They're fucking dumb. This isn't the kind of game where you pull this shit. I get it from a business point of view but not for this kind of game.
This is a PC game. Single player game. European developers. Most likely oldish fanbase. Game that requires some patience and intelligence. Replay value.
The last thing you want to do in this case is what they did.
Of course the game also had a classy feel to it with the story/setting/music but that was ruined by Absolution.
>>344136245
> this kind of game.
Assassination maps work perfectly for an episodic release?
>>344135678
>I can buy a small portion of the game for less money, but JEWS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>344136721
Which would be fine if Hitman games were like mana from heaven instead of having largely inconsistent level design
Who knows if future levels will be, you know, GOOD. Hell, how could I trust the Shitman fans who would say the currently released levels are any good?
>>344136016
fuck you
now my eyes are hurting
People just don't like getting scammed/ripped off.
Episodic releases suck or at least the market is not ready for it.
They should have launched the game for maybe half the price with a few levels, and then expand on it with "episodes" who would contain more than 1 level.
That i feel is the only way that people wont feel ripped off, while still paying you for your half assed product.
>>344136918
So instead of this model where if a level is poorly designed you can not buy it and only buy the other ones that are good instead, you would rather have had to buy the entire game for a higher price to get the bad along with the good, or nothing at all.
THE JEWS I TELLS YA
THE JEEEEEEEEEWS
>>344133386
they shot themselves in the foot with the episodic release
i bought the first map and it was pretty cool, but i just can't be bothered with buying any more episodes until they release the full thing.
>>344133386
Why aren't you including console sales?
>>344136591
clearly most former hitman fans disagree with you
personally, i hate the idea of episodic release. when i play a single player game, i want to play the whole game at once. i want to experience the entire story from start to finish.
i certainly do NOT want to start the story and then have to wait a fucking year until they allow me to finish it. fuck that. by that time i'll certainly have lost interest in the story, or forgotten what it was about in the first place. "episodic release" is garbage and i wont ever waste my money on a product that cucks me out of its own conclusion for months.
>>344135135
>>344136245
>>344136918
>>344137162
I wonder if this rhythmic repetition of the same undeveloped points written in a very similar style is pure coincidence.
>>344133386
Well I stopped giving them money the moment they revealed the elusive contracts had a real time limit
Fuck that, shitty game design
>>344137172
>So instead of this model where if a level is poorly designed you can not buy it and only buy the other ones that are good instead
Cause you took the good with the bad and skipped the largely bad levels on a second (or even first) play through?
>>344133386
sounds like they didn't.
>>344137335
Ofc it is not a coincidence, its what the majority of the audience believes. This is also why it failed, or rather than failed it did not do as well as it could.
Again, people like whole games. People will feel like they are getting charged more for less if you will make em pay little by little for levels. Even if you would take super mario and make people pay on a level by level basis, where the end price would be the same, the bundle option would most likely do better. Especially in a series with an already established name.
>time and resources are being spent on Elusive Targets
>if you spend money to unlock an episode, but dont get the change to play during their arbitrary 48 hour window, you are literally throwing your money away
How the fuck they thought this was a good idea is beyond me. Put in a time limit that starts when you take the mission, dont make it you will NEVER get to play that mission just because you didnt have access to a computer in their shitty time frame.
Im not going to gamble my money on content I wont even get to play.
>>344133386
Not every Hitman fan does. I love the game but that was a horrible idea and they're paying for it. Seriously, this isn't fucking Telltale you cunts.
>>344137640
Elusive Targets are literally the reason I'm not ever going to buy or play this game
fuck them, what a retarded idea
>>344133386
>Why is Hitman 2016 the worst performing Hitman game?
Probably because of the episodic format.
>Why did Hitman fans defend the episodic design decision?
I certainly like the episodic design from a design perspective. It would however be a big shame if it ended up being a terrible idea for them sales-wise.
>>344133712
They haven't even released the physical editions yet, mate. They haven't gone on sales either for obvious reasons. In the beginning of 2017, they'll go full marketing and that's when the game will actually launch. There's a reason why they've been so low key right now.
>>344133726
>if Hitman 2016 was actually good
But it is good. It's excellent if you're a fan of the series and want more of it as opposed to a Splinter Cell rip-off like Absolution was.
>>344133386
Denuvo.
>>344134523
>*tips console dunce cap*
Mustard only here, you can go see for yourself. PC game sales are always like 20% at the very best of what they are for consoles.
>>344134625
Stardew Valley is an extremely successful game. Are you also gonna bring up Undertale? What exactly is there to explain? You didn't contradict his statement at all.
>>344133712
Im waiting for the physical copy. So suck my balls.
>>344135135
It'd honestly be pretty stupid of them to not have those levels come back when the game is paid. I love Elusive Targets, but they shouldn't be literally gone forever. You should be able to replay them.
With that said, they aren't really that important at all. They're the equivalent of a daily in a rogue-like.
>>344135357
Source: Your ass
You don't know how the game sold on consoles and you don't know the developer's budget.
>>344137286
because that wouldnt fit the narrative
>>344138051
>>344137640
>illusive targets are the whole game
but theyre not
>>344136245
I completely disagree. It might be a death sentence for them sales-wise and that would be a huge shame, but design-wise, it's actually pretty brilliant.
The levels are incredibly replayable and if you're anything like me, you get like 60 to 80 hours out of one level alone, they're really open-ended, fun to fuck around in, have tons of ways to kill targets and tons of shit to explore and try out. Then there's Contracts, Elusive Targets and Escalations to add more to it.
Despite the fact it's not even half finished yet, I already played more hours of this game than any other game this year. But then again, I'm a huge Hitman fan. My favorite game of all time is Blood Money.
>>344139006
>you get like 60 to 80 hours out of one level alone
Late night shilling
>>344138873
But they are a part of the game that makes me not want to ever touch it
>>344136918
I don't think the level design has been inconsistent enough to be a huge problem.
I certainly agree that Marrakesh, the latest mission, is easily the worst one so far, but even that mission was still pretty damn fun, just disappointing compared to Paris and especially Sapienza, which is really fucking excellent.
You could be right, though, the next five levels could be complete shit. Let's hope you're not.
>>344137286
To be fair to him, we have no idea about console sales, since they haven't released physical editions yet and Sony and Microsoft don't give out those numbers.
>>344139204
Hitman has always been a PC series regardless
>>344137327
>Hitman
>Story
>>344137631
And those people will become a part of the audience when the game actually releases in 2017
>>344137640
>>344138051
I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't make them replayable at some point. Even if it was some sort of DLC Jew scheme. They put money into voice acting, modeling and level design changes for them. It sounds unbelievable to me that those would actually all go to the ether. It would be really stupid of them, in my opinion.
>>344139339
Yes I'm sure the Hitman devs are just biding their time like the Evolve and Battleborn devs
>>344139339
Not really, with the episodic releases you run into the risk that 1 bad episode turns people away from the series.
If you play for a full game, and part of it ends to be shit, you remember the good parts. And judge it as a whole.
If you pay for a few parts, and one of the parts ends up being dog shit, you stop buying the episodes and end up judging the incomplete game.
>>344139045
Well, as I said, you get like 60 to 80 hours of one level alone if you're like me.
I understand a lot of people aren't into replaying levels over and over again. I normally ain't either. But that's always been me with Hitman.
>>344139245
Only in the first game was it PC exclusive. It always had a larger console audience than PC audience from the moment they released Hitman 2, over a decade and a half ago.
>>344139413
I don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about this. You basically have an Early Access version of the game and then you release it when it's finished. That's when they start marketing the game on full force and you get the majority of the audience in.
>>344139440
But a ton of people are waiting for the game to be complete before they play any of it. Those people will judge the game as a complete game because that's when they'll play it.
>>344139663
>But a ton of people are waiting for the game to be complete before they play any of it.
Yep, and those are all sales not going to happen for a looooong time. And they run the risk into the dev putting less and less effort into episodes as interest falls.
>>344139476
Couldn't you have said something realistic?
I think I played like 10-15 hours of Traditions of the Trade in Hitman 1, and that was a mission I fucking loved.
60-80 FROM A SINGLE MISSION is ridiculous marketing speak
>>344138407
> sales
> Its barely been out
Fuck off, pc scum
>>344133386
>People that have no idea what Hitman is shitting on the game since day 1 because of the episodic shit even tho it fits the game AND the game is AT LEAST on par with Blood Money
Gee,anon. I don't know why it flopped
>>344139747
They're surely getting more money than they would be getting if they didn't release the game in Early Access at all and were just working on it. The game would get released in 2017 either ways. Except this way, they get money before that too.
>>344139782
I have 246 hours on Hitman, the game has five levels, but really, two of them are mostly just tutorial levels that you're done with. I must have spent a total of 8 hours on those levels at most.
246 - 8 = 238
238 / 3 = 79,333
Believable enough for you?
Traditions of the Trade is a great level and one of my favorite levels of the series, but the thing these levels have that TotT doesn't is Challenges, Contracts, Elusive Targets and Escalations.
![Pottery_Ghana[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qzqeK3d.jpg "Pottery_Ghana[1].jpg")
>the only one with Denuvo
>is the worst sold one
>>344140021
Its a short term benefit tough.
Is burning down the forest to catch a meal a good idea? Sure you wont starve today or tommorow, but you will in the next months since you just burned down the forest that feeds you.
I feel like this just them rather making less profits in a long run, but keep working on the game with slowly trickling in funds.
I feel that GW 1 nailed this model perfectly. 1 new expansion each year, that funds the next one. And it worked well. And the content was plenty full enough.
>>344140303
You have offered no good arguments on why this will supposedly cost them money in the future.
>>344140251
delete thisi-it was supposed to save PC gaming
>>344140380
Read
>>344139440
The people who stop at episode 4 out of 8 would if they released the full game, bring in twice as much money. Anyone who wont buy all episodes but will buy 1-2 could be considered a loss of potential income, as otherwise he would most likely buy the whole game with it being an established franchise.
>>344140178
Fair enough explanation
>>344140508
Yeah, it's a supposition of yours assuming that there will be relatively more people that don't buy the entire game because of a few episodes than there will be people that give the game a chance for being cheaper when they wouldn't have otherwise.
It's complete speculation and irrelevant. Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. I certainly hope you aren't. But right now, it's just meaningless theories.
>>344133440
You won't even be able to play the game when you get it, unless you are constantly online.
>>344133386
>butcher a full price game in to episodic DLC garbage
>"BUT WHY DID IT FAIL?"
Fuck man, we just don't know.
>>344140758
It's meaningless theories that are supported by the fact that the game as is now, had less sales than previous iterations that released as full games had. The speculation that the game will sell more once a complete edition comes out is a speculation as well.
The only number we actually have is current sales, and that only really tells us that this model was not the best choice.
>rename early access to "episodic platform" and try to get away with it
eat shit squenix.
>>344138407
>>344138647
I checked this thread on a whim and saw these comments about "physical retail."
Absolutely none of the big budget video game retailers in my local area have more than a single shelf dedicated to PC-related physical retail. They only have aisles and aisles of console games since digital downloads have become so commonplace.
I mean, I like in Murrica but I doubt that PC physical retail is still going strong elsewhere.
>>344141164
> I like
"I live in Murrica." So much for the quality of my nation's education when I can't be bothered to proofread.
It will be interesting to see how the "real" launch will turn out. Will all the sales at full price still occur at launch or will the game be old news by then since the hype is dead.
>>344133386
>Why is Hitman 2016 the worst performing Hitman game?
One word: DENUVO!
$hills and shareholders will call me names and defend it ferociously, but it's the only single truth.
Retards tend to forget kike publishers tried draconian anti-piracy measures in the past and people resented it, resulting in shit sales.
It's fun. I'm enjoying it. I tend to play through games very slowly anyway so the episodic release isn't an issue for me.
>>344140882
It doesn't support your argument at all. Not when we know that there are a lot of people that won't buy this game until it's finished.
>>344141164
Hitman 6 is being physically released for consoles as well in 2017.
>>344141402
>>344140251
Oh, now i understand. Didn't knew it had Denuvo. All Denuvo games sell like shit. No one pirates it, no one discusses it, Neil Gaiman was right all along.
>>344141374
I'm no expert, but I think it's a good call to not have this game go on sale any time soon. It shouldn't go on sale until three months after it's actually finished.
But they probably know one way or another way better than they do. They have a sales steam for that shit.
>>344133386
hitman games aren't actually good. it's hours of wandering doing nothing until you figure out where to press x to win. then you're expected to replay the same level ten times. it's fucking boring. I actually preferred absolution to any of the hitman games, at least you actually had some progression and something to do in between the little sandboxes. can't wait to be called a pleb by fanboys now
>>344141543
When is the final episode going to be released? It honestly feels like more people will simply lose interest by the time the final episode rolls around if this takes nearly a year to trickle through.
>>344141612
Oh, I know. It's just that the original sales numbers were taken from Steamspy. I have no doubt that console sales will be much higher regardless.
>>344141489
Information like this will become relevant when:
A) Hitman 6 releases
B) Hitman 6 has been out for three years and had plenty of sales like Absolution
>>344138407
the majority of normies don't know or care what episodic release is. if they were gonna buy it they would've bought it buy now.
>>344141624
> Minecraft's protracted development cycle is the reason why it was so popular
> Not because of its extremely free-form nature that appealed to all ages
It's like he doesn't understand that there's significant overlap between that episodic concept and early access, and early access usually doesn't work out too well for the fanbase. A lot of angry, resentful people.
Shit, even Overgrowth is in this constant zombie state despite all the meager updates in the last year.
>>344141691
I respectfully disagree with your opinion.
>>344141793
The majority of sales for any AAA game happen within 6 months of launch. Anything after that will rarely add up to an additional 10% in sales, no matter how long you go.
At least, that's what most studios and publishers claim.
>>344141845
Actually, the majority of normies still go to Gamestop to buy boxes of games to then download them on their console.
That will only be possible to do in 2017 when the game actually releases.
>PC sales
epic dude
>>344133386
>episodic game
>stealth game
>blunders
good, two birds with one stone - add randomly generated levels and roguelike/permadeath and we'll get rid of most cancer spawning on pcs
>>344141698
Assuming there are no more delays, it will be released October. However, I'd personally guess December.
>>344141973
Do you seriously expect a casual player will have the patience to keep up with episodic release dates so he can wait it out for a year? He's more likely to just forget about it or buy it prematurely.
>>344142052
If they were smart, they'd release it in late November or early December. A holiday boost is the only thing I can think of that will compensate for such an unnecessarily awkward and expensive release schedule.
>>344142085
The marketing for the game has been very low key so far, the average normie is not even gonna remember this game until they start actually marketing for it, again, when they actually release the game in 2017.
>>344141973
only 44 percent of game sales are physical. and with no hype for a re-release the game won't see a big sales boost with a physical release. it's dead in the water mate.
>>344142163
Oh, either ways that's not gonna be when the full game gets released, so to speak, even if it has all of the content by then. The physical editions will be shipped somewhere in 2017. Probably January.
>>344142120
See the post right above yours.
How many casual players seriously bother to note release dates for episodic titles? Hell, I could barely give enough of a crap to keep up with the release dates for The Walking Dead seasons.
>>344142191
Why go with an episodic model then if you're going to deliberately downplay initial release for a later sales boost?
At this point, you're making excuses for a sales model that doesn't even follow its own logic.
>>344133386
>Why is Hitman 2016 the worst performing Hitman game?
Because it's actually good
>>344142248
>only 44 percent of game sales are physical
I think you're mistaken or lying, source me up, please. Note that we're talking consoles and not PC.
It's a shame, because the game itself is damn good. I have about 100 hours, would be more if I hadn't already spend 10 or so in the beta.
Sadly, the always online ruins it for me since I have a really shitty connection. Also, the episodic release model makes me mandatorily replay the level numerous times. With Blood Money I could play once through and then spend hundreds of hours replaying the different levels. This way here a fatigue sets in. Also, Marrakesh was kinda boring. Probably because I just find the mid eastern settings abso-fucking-lutely boring. Sapienza was awesome, though.
>>344142298
>How many casual players seriously bother to note release dates for episodic titles
Precisely why the game is getting released as a full package in 2017, when it will actually get marketed and enter normie viewsight.
>Why go with an episodic model then if you're going to deliberately downplay initial release for a later sales boost?
Because episodic gaming is for the niche Hitman audience that cares enough about the game to want to buy it that way.
>At this point, you're making excuses for a sales model that doesn't even follow its own logic.
The sales model has a really simple logic to it
-Early Access, digital only
-Patch up the game, release levels once per month on average
-Some of the most fanatic audience goes with it
-Finish game up
-Market it and sell it physically
-Now it's selling to normies
>>344142248
http://www.statista.com/statistics/190225/digital-and-physical-game-sales-in-the-us-since-2009/
it's pc and console. but it doesn't matter because all that means is an even smaller percentage of sales will come from console retail.
>>344142379
That's the absolutely bizarre thing about all of this.
I'm confident that the game's not going to sell well, even if the main game is good. The developers sabotaged what could have been a decent game by their bizarre episodic model that turns most people off.
I haven't even looked at the Steam reviews but I'm confident that most of the complaints aren't even about the game itself, but the way in which it's released.
>>344142532
meant for
>>344142330
>>344133386
Maybe they should, you know, actually release a full game instead of episodic shit.
>>344133386
Only 2 reasons why I didn't get the game
>natives from Italy or where ever they're from speaking English
>Jesper Kyd didn't compose the game
>>344142532
>>344142589
What fucking shit website is this? When I try to look for more information, it tells me to pay up.
Impossible to discuss it, break it down and see if this is relevant to Hitman 6.
>>344141489
>>344141952
>>344134523
It's all well and good to say "even Absolution, the worst hitman game, vastly outperforms Hitman 2016!" Pointing to that as proof positive of the low quality of the new iteration but the fact of the matter is that Absolution is literally the best selling hitman in history by a huge margin.
sales are not now and have never been a good indicator of a game's quality, the only thing that sales represent is the general consumer's feeling towards something.
turns out people hate episodic games and always online DRM, who knew. In terms of the actual quality of the game, though, 2016 ranks pretty high up in the hitman canon for me, and depending on what we end up with it's a real contender for my favourite hitman game.
>>344142502
That sort of logic feels unnecessarily risky and unsustainable.
> A backlog of negative community reviews based solely on the episodic model, which an average "normie" will most likely skim through without realising that the negativity is about the release model and not the game itself
> Utter lack of a guarantee that the physical release will spike the game's sales
> The comparative lack of physical retail space for PC games in larger "normie" stores like Best Buy and Wal-Mart (at least in my local area)
> "Normie" players who are confused that a game which they believed was being released a year earlier is now being re-released at full price
The drawbacks just seem to grossly outweigh the possible benefits to me.
We can keep going line by line with these arguments with "greentext->response" ad infinitum, but the sales model just doesn't seem to follow a risk-averse logic. It just feels like it's adding unnecessary risk for problems that could have been mitigated by paying for a cheap quality assurance team and a more elegant, focused marketing campaign.
>>344141374
Who knows if this applies to AAA releases but the general rule for early access indie games is that you have one launch and that's when you first release on EA. The boost in sales from EA to full release is insignificant
>>344142772
Most of us aren't even discussing the game's actual quality at this point. We're just criticising the episodic model, a criticism that you just validated in your post.
I haven't played the new Hitman at all. The only reason why I was interested in this thread is because it's such a classic example of a poor release model ruining a potentially good game for a lot of people.
>>344142862
I don't necessarily disagree with you. It's entirely possible that this will blow up in their face.
It's just retarded to say it's dead in the water or to try to call it a failure this early. We won't know until 2017.
>>344143064
I, personally, agree that it's a little premature to pronounce it dead. I'm just offering my own reasons for why I believe that physical release won't cause the numbers to spike back up.
I just can't blame people for being pessimistic.
>>344142958
>a criticism that you just validated in your post
was I supposed to not validate it?
>>344133386
>episodic
>denuvo
Gee, I wonder
>>344143440
It was a rhetorical phrase meant to reinforce the focus from earlier.
Let's not turn this into a weirdly pedantic thing, guy. It was just a rhetorical fragment.
