Heavy vs. Pyro Update
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Looks like day 2 of the update leaked. So, I can count on you to support The Heavy, right? I'm assuming you're not a brony/furfag.
>>344080976
Heavy, hands down.
>Do you believe in magic? In a young girl's heart?
>>344080976
>F2Players would all go pyro
>>344080976
>not Heavy vs Scout Update
>still no Engineer vs Medic Update
Pyro doesn't need a fued
>>344080976
People still play this?
>>344084104
I stopped playing Overwatch and went to TF2 purely because I like to switch back and forth between weapons when I walk to the objective and Overwatch has too many 1 weapon characters
>>344083914
It's just a set-up to their rebalancing.
>>344080976
>implying I don't play pyro for the purpose of burning bronies and furries
>>344084309
That's an extreme amount of autism
>>344084104
"I like playing 16v16"
Trump and Hillary?
>>344084496
That's ironic.
>>344080976
do heavies and pyros really have any trouble with eachother?
>spy vs sniper: instakill class vs a mainly stationary class
>soldier vs demoman: both explosive-based classes battling to get explosive-based loot
what do these two have in common
Don't taunt me OP, I got excited for a second.
>>344084903
Terrible classes that would benefit greatly from a rework, or at least a lot of balance changes.
>>344084903
>what do these two have in common
see>>344084462
Heavy and Pyro are the two classes really in need of a healthy rebalance. They're both kind of terrible.
>>344084903
I guess they are both only useable at close range
Vote Pyro. A competent Pyro is way more useful to his team than a Heavy.
>>344084903
heavy has trouble with circlestrafing pyro
pyro has trouble getting close to heavy
>>344084864
fire existed before fursuits and mlp
>>344085380
literally the dumbest thing ive read all month
>>344084648
more like add or something
>>344085403
>heavy has trouble with circlestrafing pyro
hard-countered by mouse sensitivity
>>344085684
heavy mains are idiots. What do you expect?
>>344085380
When is the last time you've played this game?
A heavy who sits on the cart of a payload map is a way bigger threat than a pyro at any skill level.
>>344085635
>>344085845
He's right, you know.
>>344085635
Maybe not way more useful but as a pyro mainyeah, you read it righti focus on support, extinguishing teamates like no tomorrow and covering engies and f2p who don't know how to remove a sapper.
>>344086012
He's not.
>>344085635
>>344085845
Okay, I'll concede that it sounds dumb. I'm biased because I main Pyro almost exclusively.
BUT:
Spychecks
Fire extinguishing teammates
Reflecting Soldier's and Demoman's projectiles
Backburner ambushing
ducking behind cart and protecting/pushing
protecting Engie's constructs
destroying their Engie's constructs
separating Uber-Medics from their Ubers
ect
...
It's about utility. Pyro has more than Heavy.
>>344084981
but it's true, that image was found in the day 1's html
>>344086580
Well, I guess I can't argue that the class that has essentially become the utility class has more utility skills than the mobile turret class.
>>344086790
>mobile
Barely.
People still play TF2?
I want a super shotgun.
running shotgun on heavy is underrated
>>344086580
Thats why there's different classes
Heavy is good at giving and taking damage, pyro is good for, well, not that
It's clear that these two were chosen because they both fucking suck from a competitive standpoint, but let's discuss what Valve could actually be planning to do in order to fix them.
Heavy:
>reduce minigun damage up close
>increase minigun damage proportionately at medium-to-long range
He'd still do the most damage to things like a foot in front of him, just not as much. In exchange, the fall off wouldn't be so dramatic
i cant wait for these masked fucks getting mowed down
>>344086580
only a bottom feeder pyro could be more helpful than a bottom feeder heavy, with any semblance of skill, heavy is better by far with supportas far as with the current balance
>>344087154
>What is Tomislav
>>344087261
Good point.
>>344086580
>destroying engie buildings
Is this ever actually viable? Teleporters and dispensers go down easy as fuck from half the classes, and you'll never get close to a sentry to hammer it without a uber, distraction, or spy. And if you aren't defending with the Homewrecker, aka generally not close enough to be attacking enemy buildings, powerjack is superior.
>People voting for Heavy
>When Pyro is undeniably a weaker class
>>344084309
HOLY SHIT i KNEW something was off about overwatch for me and i couldn't figure out what but this is fucking it. god damn. it felt like something was missing like gotta keep that apm flow going. thank you anon thank you.
>>344087321
But maybe every minigun would become tomislavified, and then the tomislav becomes something else entirely. Like it fires just one bullet per shot (instead of 4) but it's very accurate and does more damage. Dunno, just spitballing.
>>344086790
>>344087137
>>344087240
I believe that both are valuable classes in a server, but in choosing between the too utility is actually more important than tanky turret
>>344086580
>Spychecks
Spy has lots of counters to pyro, scout deals with spies more often than pyro does
>Fire extinguishing teammates
Medic already does that
>Reflecting Soldier's and Demoman's projectiles
Aiming lower to the ground as either class counters this
>ducking behind cart and protecting/pushing
Isn't that heavy's job?
>protecting Engie's constructs
Again another thing heavy does better
>destroying their Engie's constructs
>Pyro countering engie
>separating Uber-Medics from their Ubers
The only thing pyro has going for him
Pyro needs buffs, badly
>>344087369
Fire anon, fire. Bad placed buildings are easy and quick to destroy and M1 all the way down is also viable.
>>344087436
>which is better
>pyro of course, he has a bunch of great utilities
>-because the worse one is getting new item a la gunboats
>wait, hey no, pyro is awful
I'm expecting this to be a central theme of this update
>>344087648
Maybe in pubs where the engineer is more or less on his own and placing buildings badly but when you've got an entire team protecting him and his gun (most notably a sniper) getting close enough to even try isn't really going to happen
>>344087154
The only thing heavy needs changed is no rampup, thats it. He is not a bad class and even in his current state is a good defense pick.
The same cannot be said for pyro who has a giant crippling bug list and poor weapon design across the board.
>>344087547
If your team has a good backbone, a heavy is a great choice. It's a class that's very dependent on good team support, and excels when supported.
But most the timeI'd just pick soldier or demo instead, heavy is awful
>>344087913
>bugs
like what?
What weapon could theoretically be given to either a la Gunboats that would be a significant help to either?
>>344080976
>Supporting le friendly don't shot me hovy xd
>He doesn't belive in magic
>>344088093
speed shoes for heavy
>>344088051
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EqUMvk3dpO1gLQLmUaHn7DyLrK-dj3qnPzz8Mb21-vw/edit?pageId=112306468662436496390#
>>344088093
mobility is the name of the game in tf2.
post staranges
>>344087906
also heavy on the other hand does a surprising amount of damage to buildings thanks to Tough Break, and a well positioned tomislav can spell death for an engineer caught with his pants down
>>344087598
>Spy has lots of counters to pyro, scout deals with spies more often than pyro does
Yeah
>Medic already does that
But who extinguish medic? Checkmatenot really, but you can extinguish a lot of teamates by pressing a single click
>Aiming lower to the ground as either class counters this
Reflect =/= shooting stickies
>Isn't that heavy's job?
Yeah
>Again another thing heavy does better
Can't remove sappers with a sandvich pal
>Pyro countering engie
B-but...
>Pyro needs buffs, badly
More than buffs, a rework, but yes.
>>344088093
Shotgun.
Which is why I want Pyro to win because Heavy don't need that shit.
>>344088457
How would another shotgun benefit the pyro?
>>344088453
>Reflect =/= shooting stickies
???
>Can't remove sappers with a sandvich pal
If the engie is dead the sentry is fucked regardless.
Homewrecker is a pointless weapon.
>>344088557
FIRE BULLETS!!!!1!!
>>344088557
Something new and shiny could help the rest of the player base by distracting them from the flare gun/reserve shooter
>>344088457
Hold on now
Heavy doesn't have a single secondary worth using other than the Sandvich.
Shotty/Flare/SS are all fantastic secondaries.
>>344088557
Pyro needs all the damage he can get.
Meanwhile a Heavy using anything but Sandvich is wasting his second slot.
>>344088658
>If the engie is dead the sentry is fucked regardless.
Ive managed to protect nests, but yeah is a minor chance
>Homewrecker is a pointless weapon.
I dunno anon, is my stock choice mostly, but at your favor, i switch HW and Powerjack all the time at middle of the gameit bugs me a lot
>>344088849
I don't really think that answers my question.
Basically the argument is that the pyro deserves new weapons for the sake of weapon and the heavy doesn't deserve a new secondary because of the sandvich
The crude, muscular Capitalist vs The psycho, female killer
I wonder what they based this on, hmmmm?
>there are disgusting little babies who won't vote for Heavy
This isn't even close to all the other "wars" TF2 has had, this isn't a battle between two offensive classes who do their jobs well, this isn't between two supports with very specific roles, this is between a big man with a big gun and a little baby man with a kitchen lighter.
I know in my heart that there are enough Pyro mains that'll shit their asbestos-lined jammies if Pyro doesn't win, but I hope it's a close match for Heavy's sake.
>>344088098
>being a baby
>>344080976
>Voting for heavy
>LE PYRO IS FURY XDD
Kill yourself, pyro has been so shit for so long, heavy is also shit but he can pub stomp pretty easily. Pyro desperately needs any kind of buff he can get.
>>344089070
Hi hoof, fellow hoovy main! /)
Pootis POW xD
>>344089070
This is really important to notice. Pyro is my fav class but i prefer heavy to win and have a real buffy weapon, i mean, is one of the most iconic faces of tf2, it desserves a bit more love.
>>344089060
>female
reply
Let's be real here. I don't think valve is doing another gunboats
Are we expecting both classes to get buffed regardless, or is it only the winner? God knows both desperately need it.Will it be rigged again?
Mmm, I can smell the shitstorm already. I love having things to argue about on /v/.
>>344089664
They're gonna be buffed, both of them.
The War is just framing the update and hype generation
>>344089664
>rigged
Soldier still shits of n Demo, get over it already
>>344090209
Everyone knows that the Demomen had more soldier kills, the only reason soldier won was because of the propaganda contest.
What would a game with gunboat demomen be like, anyway?
>>344090389
Hell.
The Demo has the booties now, which are just as good for sticky only madman as the gunboat would reasonably be.
>>344090389
Not very different, most soldiers these days roll shotgun or conch
It'd be easier to sticky jump sure but you'd be without pipes and the rocket/sticky jumpers exist so it's not really a big deal anyway
>tfw basically only played Pyro for a long time
>can barely play other classes
>my gameplay has slowly been getting worse and worse as Pyro gets nerfed
How do I start getting gud
>>344090389
Not too different from Sticky Jumper Demomen, really. Less effective if anything. I think the Gunboats fit Soldier better.
>>344090716
drop pyro, pick up sniper or demo
>>344090716
Play something else
The nerfs aren't making you worse, you are
>>344090716
what nerfs
>>344090716
Try to get a secondary main, and try to play other classes sometimes on pubs.
>>344090716
Play Medic or Soldier. They're both easy to get into.
>>344088158
They want to buff afterburn. Are they insane? Pubs will be in chaos.
>>344090716
>pyro gets "nerfed"
>degreaser babies are so shit that they cant play stock pyro
>It's been six fucking years and people are still asshurt about mlp
Will we ever see anything on the scale of mlp ever again with this much staying power to make people upset?
>>344091023
>Medic
>Easy
He's one of the hardest to play and requires the most gamesense. You have to know what's always going on at every moment to know when it's a good time to heal, shoot, uber, etc. You're also the most targeted player next to spies.
However, he's one of the best classes to play (other then spy) on how to learn to play other classes, because you get to watch people as you heal them, and learn new tactics.
>unbalanced casual class shooter with a focus on larger team fights
>competitive mode being anything worth getting excited over
>>344091317
If you can follow heal order and you know how to flash uber you are already better than 99% of pub medics. He isn't THAT difficult.
>>344091394
This thread isn't about competitive mode.
>>344091317
>medic
>not easy
hiding behind a better player doesn't take skill friendo
>>344090716
Play Soldier. It's almost just as braindead to get kills with, but at least you suffer from much more mobility problems which makes you have to think a little more, and teaches you the importance of correct rocket jumping and health management.
If you wish, start rocket jumping in pubs with Gunboats, but once you feel you can jump minimally decently, switch out of them and equip the Shotgun, so you learn health management, and the Shotgun will teach you some hitscan and ammo management too, since you are encouraged to switch out from your rockets whenever an enemy is weak and can be finished off with the Shotty because of how slow rocket reloads can be in the heat of the moment.
Having done that, get started with Demo and Scout. Demo will transfer rather well together from Soldier, but you will need to have much better prediction to hit pipes, and Scout will teach you all the hitscan you need from the game and when to disengage from battles.
Once you get a good grip out of all those three classes, then I'd say it's good to move on to whatever class you feel you like the most. That's not to say you can't play said class when you are learning the "core" classes, but rather to not quite main it until you have the hang of the game.
>>344091394
there's gonna be matchmaking for 6v6 and 12v12
>>344091564
Babysitting your entire team does
>>344091618
>>344091317It's been a while since I last played, so I forgot to mention that I actually play Medic fairly often too
I can't rocket jump at all though, it's ridiculous.
>>344080976
>tfw unabashed heavy main
>but that peace sign pyro is cute
Damn pyro. You getting too kawaii for this shit.
>>344091790
If you can get the crouch timing right (practice practice) everything else is cake
>>344091790
Hug right wall, crouch jump shoot in one flick. This should be something you can do instantly without thinking.
>>344091727
That doesn't change anything
>"maining" anything in a game that isn't a fighting game
jesus christ
>>344091790
>I can't rocket jump at all though, it's ridiculous.
Everyone feels that way at first. If you have the Rocket Jumper, equip that and join any Valve server, and just fuck around with it close to your spawn and away from the action. It's very unlikely someone will come to kill you since most people on those servers are incompetent, so you'll have all the time to get accustomed to rocket jumping you want. And it doesn't make you feel lonely as if you did if you just started an offline match, so I guess that's a pro too.
I like Pyro.
>>344091967
This is my favorite meme.
>>344091967
If you want to get anywhere in comp you have to stick with one class. Soldier, demo, and scout all take hundreds of hours to be proficient with and thousands to master.
>>344092123
you have no clue what you're talking about
good luck getting into a competent team knowing only a single class
Is the item server down for anyone else?
>>344092223
Yes, seeing pubshitters whining because they don't have their crutches is pure bliss
>>344091301
undertale
Please don't fucking nerf this
>>344092193
That is literally what every team does though? Scouts have to offclass occasionally but defense classes don't take any time to learn at all. Players generally stick with one offense class.
>>344092441
>assists: the gun
can't stand using it
>>344092084
Thats a bitchin Pyro
>>344092403
But it's already fading, OW is the new memegame all cool kids play
>>344091790
Jump and crouch, shoot the floor behind you, then use A and D to steer in the air. Release W while you're in the air or it won't work. It's that easy, mate.
>>344092193
Maining doesn't necessarily involve distancing you from all classes but one. It just means you put more priority into learning one of them over the others. You can be a good Sniper/Demo/Medic/Whatever, and still call yourself a Scout main if you have the most hours and most experience on Scout.
>>344092441
its already been nerfed to oblivion why would valve nerf it again
>>344092441
I don't see why they would to be honest.
The gave the damage resist to natacha and brass beast because they were terrible.
>>344092537
Then why do the bronies and little kids still play TF2?
>>344092513
>fuck you scouts
>fuck you demoknights
>fuck everything with 20% dmg resist
>>344092441
Am I the only one who misses 300 ammo Natasha? I found it way more useful.
>>344092717
Because they are not cool
>>344090716
>main pyro
>still good even after nerfs
>>344092718
Demoknights deserve every ounce of suffering they get, fucking waste of a slot
>>344092916
Imagine how many new explosives demo could have today if not for that stupid class
>>344092749
Maybe if you play 24/7 turbine.
there are no fucking ammo packs on that map jesus christ I hate turbine
But otherwise, it was bland and not really notable. Ammo in tf2 isn't that rare. A single medium ammo pack already gives you back half your ammo reserve
TF2 thread?
Okay, just a question: the Sandman is a straight upgrade right?
>>344084752
One side is a highly educated man that people like to see as dumb due to his simple vocabulary.
Otherside is a batshit insane murder who feels no remorse.
It is scary accurate.
>>344092996
I play on really low sensitivity so I go for long range chip damage frequently. I burn through ammo extremely fast.
Item servers down for anyone?
>>344093008
>minus hp
you tell me
post heavy and pyro loadouts
>>344093163
me too, it's probably for rebalance/new items
>>344080976
>UFO
Is it finally happening after all these years?
>>344093008
Not really. I still think that one bat that gives you a triple jump is the best one. Losing max health just for a stun that doesn't even last that long unless you hit from super far away. Using it with the Flying Guillotine is fun as hell though.
>there are people on /v/ right now that main Pyro
truly a sickening thought
>>344093231
can't because >>344093163
>>344084903
Easiest classes to play
>>344092797
So you're saying you'd rather have bronies and kids play your game.
Is this the level the TF2 community has reached?
>>344092441
I don't see how they could make it worse.
It's fucking criminal that it's not viable since it's the most beautiful sounding gun in the game.
Stock just can't compare to that BRRRRRT
>>344093008
No scout needs all the health he can get.
However it lets you do dumb shit like stun a medic pushing into a point and waste all his uber or hard counter heavies which is why it's not allowed in comp.
>>344093008
If -15 health is considered a straight upgrade, then yes.
>>344093230
It's banned in comp for a reason
Stun is cancer and even valve regrets putting it in the game
>overwatch comes out
>blows the fuck out of tf2
>tf2 literally trying to copy overwatch's match system and leveling system
the pathetic death cries of a dying game.
>>344080976
>I'm assuming you're not a brony/furfag.
why do they all gravitate towards pyro
I just want to burn things and I'm lumped in with these degenerates
>>344093616
Yeah but it's by definition not a straight upgrade. Solemn Vow was a straight upgrade until recently.
TF2 comp is a joke and will only have a small sense of balance if the only weapons allowed are the stock ones.
>>344093782
Because W+M1 doesn't take any effort.
>>344093741
You mean like OW copied CSGO's matchmaking and leveling system?
>>344093498
>it's an effective tool in the hands of a skilled player
>banned in comp
Color me shocked. Why are competitives such whiny babies?
>>344093858
no weapon bans
no class limits
i mean, it works in overwatch right? :)
>>344093896
>Implying Heavy takes more skill
>>344093896
It doesn't even get any result unless the enemy team was lobotomized
>Only play Medic
>Stuff like this will never happen for my class
>>344092441
>using this on demoknights
>>344093782
Because pyro doesn't have a defined personality or identity past "faceless goon who likes to burn people and is depicted as cute"
It's super easy for furfags to project onto
>>344093968
Because with a dedicated medic around the health penalty is a non-issue and any midnight would just be 4 scouts shooting balls at the medics
>>344094072
shut the fuck up you're already a pussy ass bitch for "maining" medic in a shooting game.
plus MTM was one of the best updates of the fucking game.
>haven't played in months
>everything I liked playing with got "balanced" into oblivion
>don't really want to play with the "balanced" toys
>but still miss TF2
I miss my cannonballs.
>>344094112
>use natacha
>absolutely ruin the day of enemy demoknights, pyros and scouts
>>344093968
Because stun is fucking cancer. Being able to stop a class from being useful at all and turning them into an easy target for an easy kill, all with the simple press of M2 where aiming the ball isn't even a challenge, is fucking stupid.
>>344094020
Heavy requires has to have his crosshair on enemies to kill them, pyro doesn't. Heavy gets punished for bad positioning, pyro doesn't.
>>344094034
So your average pub then?
>>344094114
>old pyro
>actually insane person who uses homemade weapons, wears odd things because he's nuts
>new pyro
>wacky mmph man who sees rainbows and acts like a goofy retard
Flanderization is real and I watched it happen
>>344094219
I feel ya man.
I used to run baby face blaster clitacola bostan basher and fuck people over with bleed damage at incredibly hihg speeds.
Now if the server hiccups I'm fucked.
>>344093163
>complaining about itemservers being down
Fucking keep it that way, I want vanilla tf2 all day every day.
>>344094072
>only playing a single class
>thinking of any class as "your" class
stop playing wrong
>>344094472
>actually insane person who uses homemade weapons, wears odd things because he's nuts
>wacky mmph man who sees rainbows and acts like a goofy retard
And the difference between these two is...?
>>344094219
Loose Cannon is still OP as fuck what are you on about
If you mean the longer fuse from many moons ago then I miss it too.
>>344094219
Valve's decision to nerf the Loose Cannon was pretty retarded, yeah.
>>344084903
Nerfed into the ground by whiny shitters or otherwise near useless against anyone with half a brain. They both need buffs or reworking.
>>344094619
tone
>>344094219
Kill yourself
>One shot medics and do consistent 150 damage just by knowing the max range
>Knockback twice as strong as airblast and can't be reflected
>Projectile big as a cinderblock and hard to see
>>344080976
>Heavy vs. Pyro
Heavy. Not even a contest.
>>344084903
It's an excuse for everyone to try the new buffs both classes will get
>>344094714
It actually can be reflected, but all it does is kill the momentum and make it blow up at your feet, which is equally stupid
>>344094373
Then don't go out in the open like that or run a counter Sandman Scout on your team.
If you get balled from across the map you deserve to be stunned. Stun isn't cancer, what's cancer is the fun-ruining compfags. Anything in the game should be fair game. If it's overpowered then nothing stops the other team from switching to it as well. Now both teams are equally overpowered, which is to say both teams are even again.
>>344094841
That's what I meant. I'm secretly hoping valve let's pyro reset projectiles in this update so you don't blow yourself up anymore.
>>344080976
>He's not going Heavy
I mean, there's objectively no reason a pyro would ever win against a heavy. Right?
What if instead of a weapon for the winner, the loser gets a complete rework instead?
So where do I vote? Heavy needs them votes. I want more of a reason to play as him.
>>344094978
>circlestrafing
>>344095000
That's a terrible idea just because both of them need reworks.
>>344094978
Yes
>>344095089
Is a heavy unable to move his mouse?
MY FEESTS THEY ARE MADE OF STEEEL
RUAANN RUAAAAAANN EYEM COHMING FOR YOU
I LIIIIIIIIIIIIVE
RAAAAAAAGHGGH
>>344095138
He can't turn as fast as a circling Pyro with his minigun spooled, can he?
>>344094619
>what's the difference between a man who wraps an axe in barbed wire and a man who shoots rainbows
>>344094927
>Don't go out in the open
>In FUCKING 6s
Fuck off. You're just another shitter mad he can't use his crutch. Go learn how to fucking DM and you won't need to stun people to kill them.
NEW FUCKING MAPS
>Sunshine
fuck yeah
>Metalworks
fuck yeah
>Swiftwater
fucking HL players are dogshit
>>344095138
Even if he can, his bullets all have to hit the Pyro. But the Pyro doesn't really need accuracy for his flame.
>>344095217
no.
turn speed is the same
>>344094978
Unless the heavy happens to be near a cliff or approaching train, yes. Or, the pyro has a corner to duck behind and spam flares from.
>>344095272
You know they didn't disable the Axtinguisher, right? You can still use it.
>>344095217
There is no limit on turning speed.
>>344095087
If it's anything like last time you better get your ass in the game and start mowing down those baby men right now
>>344095087
>vote
if its anything like the original WAR!, you have to kill the other class as the class you want to win
>>344094927
>lol just run the same thing as the others to counter it who cares about variety
Then you have the game turn into a complete snoozefest where one team is using the exact same things as the other because they need to counter each other, and switching away from it means deliberately putting yourself and your team at a disadvantage.
It's a shit mentality.
MEDIC AND SCOUT GORDBORTS WHEN VALVE?
>>344095397
and like the war update it'll be rigged from start to finish.
>>344095325
>four bullets fired per ammo used
>fast rate of fire
>hit scan
As if heavy needs accuracy either
>>344095275
You're just another shitter mad that someone picked a different weapon and ran wild all over you.
Go back to your no items/fox only/final destination boring shitfest.
>>344095384
1.Axtinguisher is shit
2.The problem is that they keep pandering to the furfags/bronies
http://www.strawpoll.me/10685181
http://www.strawpoll.me/10685181
http://www.strawpoll.me/10685181
http://www.strawpoll.me/10685181
>>344093231
This has been my set for years, I see no reason to ever have to change it.
>>344095427
Never.
Valve and Weta cut ties
>>344095423
One team is ALREADY using the exact same things as the other because of babbies like you whining that stock is the only stuff that's fair.
>>344095549
>muh furfag/brony pandering
ITP: Shit that never happened outside of the Meet the Pyro video
>>344095654
;_;
>>344095397
It's going to be different, Valve doesn't want 12 v 12 Heavies and Pyros
>>344095561
I made this for christmas last year and apparently kept it on because I never ever play pyro.
>>344095521
>that someone picked a different weapon and ran wild all over you
So what you're saying is they only won because of their gun and not because they were actually more skilled. Sounds like a crutch to me. You can stop posting and go back to cp_orange now.
>>344095392
>>344095397
So it's all for nothing because they'll say "well heavies made a 'kill pyro bots' server and their kill now don't count" again?
>>344095797
Shit that doesn't sound good.
>>344095427
>>344095654
>>344095709
>>344095780
THEY EVEN HAD CONCEPT ART OF THE SCOUT AND MEDIC ITEMS ON THE WORKSHOP
I'M SO ANGRY
>>344095784
If contracts are anything to go by then it'll only track valve servers
I can see it now, $6 campaign pass and the rewards will all be cosmetic hats/weapon skins
The winner gets some exclusive medal they'll never wear
>>344095797
>banny still trying to stay relevant even though nobody pays attention to tf2 comp
>literally 4 teams went to dreamhack
pathetic
>>344095289
>sunshine
It looks like a re-skinned version of Process
>>344080976
should have been scout vs heavy but whatever
>>344095874
You only have to buy a contract ticket for the heavy, or for the pyro... or both! 19.99 each!!!!
Competitive mode should either be
Stock weapons only o
or
VERY limited selection of non-stock weapons along with stock , obviously.
Cosmetics allowed.
>>344095797
>It's an actual election
>Whoever wins gets buffed to the point of being ludicrously overpowered for a day until the announcer smacks them and then reworks both classes
>>344096012
scout doesn't need a rebalance.
>>344095782
They were more skilled. They stunned you from across the map and you allowed this to happen because you're bad.
>>344096001
PUBBIES GET OUT
G
E
T
O
U
T
>>344095676
That's only because Valve has been so shit at balancing their game, you mostly have either underpowered weapons that no one uses because they are shit, or overpowered weapons that need your team to equip it if the other team runs it too. There have been few true sidegrades, and guess what: those are all allowed in comp, like most of Medic's mediguns, most of Soldier's secondaries and some of his melee options, and a few things for Demo and Scout. Stock has been left as the default choice because it's the least situational, but you still see teams running weapons off-stock, or even offclassing. Sniper is a popular choice for breaking a stalemate on last, a choice that would go down the fucking toilet if you allowed the Sandman to exist, thus increasing the likelihood of the game staying in that stalemate.
Try again.
>>344095884
they even made the models for them (for the cosmetics at the very least)
but someone had to screw it up.
>>344096143
How different is it then?
2nd and 3rd caps look largely the same with the middle point being raised.
>>344096210
>344096210
blame grodbord himself. he wanted more money before allowing valve to put it ing ame
Heavy:
>Mostly balanced, could use a buff, but fills his role well
vs
Pyro:
>Literal joke class, underperforms in every possible regard except igniting spies which doesn't matter because any competent player can spycheck without fire and instead of igniting spies will just outright kill them
>oh and I guess they're relegated to sentry cucks now?
Show some pity for Pyro, the forever-underpowered.
>>344096134
>Just dodge the fastest smallest projectile in the game xD
>>344096381
>heavy
>good at anything except last point tanking
kek. let me know how many heavies you see in true comp
>>344096381
shit class since QTF and never gonna change
Wait Heavy vs Pyro is real?
eh?
>>344096381
The funniest part is that Heavy counters Pyro rather well unless the Heavy is so braindead that he lets himself get ambushed. It's not like Demo vs Soldier at all, where both classes weren't counters to each other.
I think this is going to be heavily lopsided to the Heavy, especially because a Heavy with a pocket Medic becomes even more powerful against a Pyro with a Medic of his own. And god knows, a good Medic will always stay with the more powerful classes than with a Pyro.
>tfw I'm genuinely excited to play TF2 with the reworks
I missed the B2P phase, because I was still a halo fanatic, I missed the peak of f2p before it really REALLY went to shit, and I've only played in the remnants. There's going to be so many people that play the comp mode, both overwatch refugees and poorfaggots that can't afford overwatch, AKA literally free mmr. I'm so excited to play soldier and scout again, hopefully the potential Heavy rework isn't awful, I love heavy
>>344096381
not to mention every single class having a way to instantly get rid of fire and the flamethrower dealing so little damage it might as well be a squirt gun
>>344096381
>Heavy
>Not underpowered
He certainly fulfills the role of being a giant walking target well
>>344096409
When it's coming from across the map then yeah. You might as well be saying sniper is OP and should be banned because his hitscan weapon is infinitely fast. You don't have to "dodge" anything. I'm not saying to see it coming and get out of the way, I'm saying to stop having such piss poor positioning that you can be hit by one across the map. Hey what do you know? That's exactly what you should do when there's a sniper on the enemy team. Not have garbage positioning where they can get a huge line of sight on you.
You're bad. Just stop posting.
>>344096645
>tfw started downloading tf2 again when I saw this update announced
I haven't played since the EotL update
Darwin's Danger Shield nerf
fucking
WHEN
>>344096754
Sniper can't do anything else, Scout is the strongest combat class in the game.
>>344096859
literally never. Enjoy dying while I survive with 7 hp. :)
>>344088416
>1 posthumous kills
fucking harcore
>>344088416
>falling for the orange jew
you turned tf2 into cancer
>pyro vs heavy
>winner now has grenades and can bunnyhop
imagine the shitstorm
>>344097354
>pyro being able to use his incendiary grenades
i just came a bit
hopefully there will be new weapons
>>344096381
No pity for Pyro, ever.
It deserves everything it's gotten.
I just wanted a summer update with a hawaiian shirt...
I've been waiting 3 years for it.
>>344095931
FUCK this will probably be exactly what happens.
>>344098110
Good news anon
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Doc%27s_Holiday
>>344085173
This. Heavy just isn't fun to play against and is brain dead easy. Pyro is basically countered by all other classes. A rework would be great.
>>344084903
both easy as fuck to play
>>344092513
>assists: the gun
That's not a bad thing.
Natascha make heavy somewhat useful at long range instead of being completely useless. That's the main draw.
It is also useful for wrecking certain cancerous play styles (demoknights as well as scouts who think they are gods because they get up right in your face and spaz out making them hard to hit)
It might only get you mainly assists, but Natascha is a teamwork gun. I don't use anything else
>>344087445
>not jumping and spamming melee
>>344084903
They're both fucking useless in competitive.
>>344097540
Seems likely enough, but I hope they're earnable in game so I don't have to deal with the absolute fuckfest that is trading.
What are things that always happen to you that you hate in this game?
>Play medic
>Scout with no health stands next to me for one second giving me no time to fully heal him
>He runs off and gets killed
>Blames me for it
>Soldiers and Demos that jump away when I'm healing them
>Other medics that won't overheal me
>That one fucking spy that no one on my team notices even after I tell them about it a million times that keeps trying to kill me
>Kill him myself then team complains about me not healing them
>Soldier gets mad at me not pocketing him/not giving him crits
>>344080976
>Meaningful content updates to TF2
Hold me /v/.
>>344099270
>Have Uber
>Every uberable class runs away from me like they can't fucking see the 100% on their screen when I heal them
>Either end up dropping the Uber or having to use it on a useless class just to save myself
>>344099270
teammates not getting on the point
>>344099270
>join a Valve server
>3 snipers and 2 spies on my team
>>344096848
I'm downloaidng right now, pretty pumped desu
>>344096536
Isn't heavy limited to one per team in comp. I'm pretty sure if comp could they would run whole teams of heavies because heavies get stronger the more you have on your team.
>>344099270
>Other medics that won't overheal me
>>344093782
>everyone just focuses on the cutesy shit
>even Valve seems to have forgotten that it only happens in his head, and that as far as anyone else can tell he's basically Jason Voorhees with a flamethrower
Pyrovision was a mistake.
>>344099586
>Have uber
>Want to flash multiple players
>Nobody pushes in with us even after wiping 3/4th of their team
>>344099270
dying and having to suffer through the agony that is spectating my teammates
>>344099270
>only person really stopping the team from capping
>get killed by a sniper
>respawning in 20 seconds...
>>344095797
It's going to be some bullshit where you have to buy a pass to participate, isn't it?
>>344100939
comp has a paywall to keep the kis an russians out
if you are already premium you only have to give up your phone number an you can play for free, otherwise its ten bucks
like the goo ol days everyone goes on about
NEW WEAPONS FUCKING WHEN???
I want something innovative and outside the box in terms of use, its been fucking ages since we got something interesting and I swear to fuck if they bring in a new wave of skins with this update im gonna be pissed.
Pic related; this weapon provides the most fun ever when you get good with it, I've got 14k kills on mine and it feels fucking incredible when you can take on multiple people at once with a fucking shovel.DONT FUCKING NERF IT YOU SCUMBAGS, YOU ALREADY MADE IT SWING SLOWER THAT'S ENOUGH
>>344099985
>they're all at the bottom of the scoreboard too
>>344099270
>manage to kill off a huge portion of their team and keep them from getting to the front lines
>perfect opportunity for my team to cap and move up
>they don't
>>344101369
Shit, thats great, I forgot the fucking pic
>>344084737
What does that even mean?
>>344101293
I was talking about the Heavy vs Pyro war but
>only have to give up your phone number
>otherwise its ten bucks
Oh boy, more phone bullshit. They can bugger off asking for my number, they don't need it.
>>344084903
see
>>344085023
>>344085173
>>344094670
>>344094827
>>344098829, except i'd say rather than both getting upgrades right away this will be a repeat of the original WAR! update where there really are major new mechanics at play (gunboats/demoknight). So, in a few years after this WAR!, either Heavy or Pyro will be a radically different class to play (or have a radical new 'subclass' option), and the other will have a major new 'staple' weapon.
>>344096981
>play hightower
>opposite team has a quickscoping sniper with godly aim ripping my team a new one
>I'm bad at sniper and hitscans in general, but something has to be done
>pick DDS and dominate him because apparently he doesn't have enough brain cells to charge his shots
>after a while another quickscoper joins
>dominate both of them and only target them because they attack me 1v1 and give me plenty of time to heal up before engaging the other one
>half an hour later (becase no one ever caps on hightower) they FINALLY manage to kill me due to either accidental or deliberate teamwork, double-tapping me
DDS is so broken it's ridiculous, I almost feel bad for using it to compensate for my complete lack of aim
>>344103023
The original set bonus thing was a lot better, just fun pissing enemy snipers off in more ways than one.
>>344099270
>the fucking medic on our team only heals one guy instead of trying to keep the whole team overhealed
>>344099270
>Everyone on my team either has a gibus or tons of tacky cosmetics that are painted in an extremely garish color
Fucking hate that shit. It still hurts that Valve gave up on maintaining a consistent artstyle in favor of shoving a bunch of garbage items into the game.
>>344103576
>medic is a pocket
>his patient gets a 20+ Killstreak
>his team still loses
Bonus points if the patient is a gunboats soldier.
>>344103576
That's fucking infuriating and I'm not even sure why they do that. Even when their butt-buddy dies, they'd rather stand around being useless rather than heal somebody else.
>>344101293
Nigger premium costs like 50 cents, however much a weapon from the store costs anyway. What are they trying to pull?
>>344103576
>>344104070
I fucking hate when other medics do this. I main medic, and while I think it's always good to have a pocket you can jump to if shit goes bad, you should always be healing everyone.
I've noticed that soldier mains get really pissy if I don't only heal them/pocket them. They always expect me to follow their dumb moves and to use my uber/crits on them. Soldier mains are the fucking worst egotistical faggots ever.
>>344098296
But I wanted one for scout...
I already uninstalled and crafted all of my hats together but I'm excited to see what will hopefully be new weapons
>>344104331
Don't forget that rouble's value dropped A LOT over the past two years, so now they essentially have to pay more than twice as much; _ ;
>TF2
You guys know that it's 2016, right?
Post your Heavy/Pyro loadouts.
>>344104815
>it's [CURRENT YEAR] guys, stop doing things i don't like.
>>344105251
I don't play pyro much, but cart pushing heavy is fun whenever it happens.
>tfw tf2 pulls valve out of debt from the csgo and dota suings
oh wait it also has gambling :/
>>344105251
I like this pyro look
>>344105251
I'm working on an inferno cop outfit for pyro but i only have the law at present
When does Comp go live?
>>344094573
What if my class ismedic?
>>344107250
wait a minute, how'd you get zarya in tf2?
source on this leak? or is this a joke and I'm retarded?
>>344108497
https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/news/22674/mymday1.png
If you replaced the 1 with a 2, you would get Heavy vs. Pyro
They removed it
>>344105251
"Let us fight like gentlemen"
>>344099270
>you aren't allowed to cap on hightower
>cap anyway
>tears
every time
It's nice that they're updating the actual game again, but honestly I'd rather they release the last chapters of the comic.
It's been almost an entire year now.
>>344109556
MOTHERFUCKING THIS. I WANT TO SEE THE END OF THE TFC STORY GODDAMNIT.
I'm honesty more interested in this
>leveling stat
What did they mean by this?
>>344109556
ITS A BIG RUSE TO RELEASE THE COMIC
>>344109749
false sense of progression autism
>>344109749
Seems to just be a regular ranking system.
It really does remind you that TF2 is a 9 year old game.
I still remember the shitting /v/ had when Meet the Pyro finally came out
>Do you believe in magic~
>Overwatch starts competitive
>TF2 suddenly bursts out with 'w-we're competitive too guise!'
pretty pathetic tbch familia
>>344109556
how can this comic have such good panels, and then such cancer such as soldier >>344109834
>>344109749
from what I can tell it's just autism points and doesn't mean anything
I just hope they don't get rid of regular quickplay, lord knows their matchmaking is always dogshit on release
>>344109834
Soldier a best
>>344109912
Wasn't Competitive TF2 in the works before Overwatch even came out?
>>344109917
>major plot point between two main characters vs side gag
you tell me
>>344110079
every soldier panel is cancer
>>344110042
yes
>>344110042
unofficially since 2008
officially since tomorrow
>>344110121
you are cancer
>>344110203
that's what I'd expect someone who like soldier to say. in fact that's probably what soldier would say if you called him cancer. probably the worst thing to happen to tf2 since meet the pyro
>>344109912
This has been in development long before Overwatch released, blizzcuck. Way to make yourself look like a retard.
>>344080976
Can someone tl;dr the new shit?
>>344110314
commie detected, got an eagle stuck up your ass?
>>344110415
matchmaking is releasing soon, probably this week
new shit to announced soon if any
>>344110042
it all started with one little idea that got taken too serious .
Man, I really hope they don't make Pyro viable again. My favorite class becoming garbage is what motivated me to stop playing. I don't want to start dumping time into TF2 again.
>>344110415
For the low low price $10 (or your phone number) you can use matchmaking.
>>344110572
do NOT give your phone number to steam. been getting random sales calls ever since they got my number. they are selling your data.
>>344110572
Why do you care about your phone number being out?
>>344110645
I haven't. Post proof faggot.
>>344110569
>My favorite class
>pyro
>becoming garbage
so much wrong with this post.
yiff in hell furfag.
>>344110645
My anecdotal evidence states that I've not got any more than the standard amount of junk calls after giving Steam my number, therefore cancelling out your claim.
>>344110661
I'm always suspicious of people who want my phone number
>>344110572
Where was this said? I couldn't find anything about having to pay for matchmaking on the page.
>>344110892
Enjoy that schizophrenia
>>344110927
I'm not sure, all I know is that it's apparently free if you already have a premium account before the update. It's probably a pay wall that's going up after it releases in order to discourage hackers, like why CS GO still isn't f2p.
>>344110927
http://www.teamfortress.com/meetyourmatch/faq/
It's in the FAQ
>>344110927
http://www.teamfortress.com/meetyourmatch/faq/
basically there's a $9.99 lifetime pass if you don't have a phone number linked to your Steam for whatever retarded reason
>>344110962
Schizophrenia?
>>344080976
>he isnt voting for heavy
>>344111186
I do wonder why Valve wants people to link their numbers so badly though.
If this panel is true, why haven't Saxton Hale and I'm guessing Mags lost all their power yet?
>>344111439
BRs and Russians with their throwaway accounts always cheating and trying to steal passwords
>>344111439
Russians with throwaway accounts ruin everything.
>>344111439
I'm not implying that Valve is an angel of a company but it does make sense to use phone numbers, as a new number is much harder for the average person to get rather than a new account, thereby discouraging hacking. Also, it's harder for Russian hacker #24255 to get into your account if they need your phone physically in order to do it.
>>344111462
plot armor
>>344111462
>rather suddenly
guess
>>344111670
Oh yeah, I'm retarded. The Australium-sucking robots, right? Or are you implying that Saxton stole all their shit?
>>344111793
both, but The administrator, not Hale
>no auto-balancing
thank you jesus
>>344112170
>lose 1 point
>half your team leaves
>won't get new people
one cancer for a new form.
>>344112170
Arguably the best thing to come out of this update, literally half of my games I get autobalanced within the last 2 minutes or so and end up losing.
>>344112235
I'm assuming slots will be filled from new people joining, or at least I'm hoping that's how it works.
>>344111271TURN OFF THE GAME CONSOLE
>>344112324
>Now, instead of jumping randomly into an in-progress game, you'll be matched into an unranked 12v12 game with players of similar skill.
I'm not hopeful by that wording on the website
>>344112456
I'm sure you'll have the option to, like MvM
>>344110415
>matchmaking and pass time are out of beta (asteroid and cactus canyon are still in beta though)
>quickplay is turning into matchmaking lite; no more autobalance or "drop in/out"
>three community maps, CTF gets cucked once more
>>344080976
what if im a brony and support heavy anyways?
>>344112718
Then you can fuck off because you're definitely not welcome.
>>344112539
fuck quickplay man. i just want community servers to be alive again
also the three maps added are pretty good, except swiftwater. that map is cancer
>>344112909
i dont know why you fucking weebs think you're some how better that furfags/bronies
>>344113240
What makes you say that I'm a weeb? Defensive much?
>>344113240
>want to fuck animals
vs
>dont want to fuck animals
hmm
Yeah but wheres the new comic
>>344114235
EVERY
TWO
MONTHS
>>344098829
Technically they're not useless, they have very clear, well-defined uses that they always get picked for.
It's just that
>Heavy's unlocks that make him viable offensively are banned because people find them un-fun to play against, so he only gets used on defense
and
>Pyro's only use is denying Ubercharges on last point holds, which only takes up about 8 seconds out of each match
>>344115409
>unlocks that make him offensively viable
Just GRU and EN right?
>>344116706
Tomislav too
>tfw Halloween restrictions
Fuck you too, Valve.
>>344116706
GRU yes, the eviction notice I can't imagine anyone ever using because no fist heavy will last 10 seconds in a non-retarded environment
>>344116803
I always thought that 6v6 was really fucking ban happy. They banned Soda Popper, didn't they?
>>344116897
In all 6v6 leagues, yes
>>344116849
>halloween stuff restricted
>festive trash allowed year round
>>344116861
Eviction Notice is now like GRU-lite, you get something like a 15% speed boost and a damage vulnerability while they're out, not a mark for death. Plus, you get a speed boost if you manage to hit someone with them. I prefer them to GRU because if you get caught with your pants down you still have a fighting chance instead of being stuck taking minicrits for a couple seconds.
>>344116849
Honestly Valve should just say "fuck it" and go full out at this point because it's not like the all season hats are any less weird.
>>344116897
To be fair the Soda Popper is a nightmare for explosive classes
>>344117124
oh yeah, forgot about that. GRU made worthless without even touching them
>>344117380
The speed boost is still much better on the GRU though, they're the higher risk/higher reward option. I'd say EN is best for general use and the GRU is best for rolling out from spawn.
>>344116706
Sandvich is another problem
Normal 6s game
>Scout gets a meatshot on medic but dies
>Roamer goes apeshit and kamikazes into the combo and potentially gets a drop
6s game with heavy pocket
>Scout gets a meatshot on medic but dies
>lolololol free medium healthkit
>Roamer tries to bomb and gets filled with bullets
Phlog is love
Phlog is life
>>344116849
>But you can wear banana hats and christmas trees on your head!!!!!
Valve is fucking stupid.
>>344117848
good, soldiers getting to suicide the medic with much less difficulty than it takes to airshot them isn't fun
>>344118306
Too be fair a heavy is already the best counter to a bomber other than a b4nny-tier demo man, it's kinda insane to have an extra buffer of HP for the medic too.
>tfw i main Heavy
>tfw i want him to win
>tfw he probably wont because of pubs and shitters
This is suffering
>>344119086
a lot more pub shitters go heavy than pyrot. pub shitter, he's also much stronger in pubs than pyro so they'll have an even easier time of it
>>344118306
>with much less difficulty than it takes to airshot them isn't fun
You let a scout get close to your med as pocket, this is the consequence. You have a shotgun there's no excuse.
Are they patching in a time machine? Otherwise, I can't see how anyone could be excited about a TF2 update. The game will still be filled with jews, furries, and BRs.
omfg both of my most hated classes fuck this game
>>344085023
What is every class except Demo and Medic
>>344086580
>main pyro almost exclusively
>>344093008
only straight upgrade left in the game is Third Degree
what you're describing is a functional upgrade, and Sandman doesn't fit that category either.Boston Basher and Ubersaw do.
Sandman does need a nerf, but there are times when you would definitely want to use stock Bat over Sandman for the extra HP.Meanwhile, there is never a time when a skilled Scout on a serious team would pick Bat over Basher, and there is never a time when a sensible Medic would pick Bonesaw over Ubersaw.
>>344116897
Like if seeing every team using a soda popper in fights is going to be interesting. Even when I think that the people who decide wich weapon to ban or not are very slow catch up with weapong changes every time and update hits, some weapons rightfully deserves their ban for variation's sake, for as contradictory as it might sound. Also, is not like we need to see even more tunnel visioned retard trying to go after a medic pic 1/4 second after they spawn, that's already bad as it is with retarded roamers and some scouts.
>>344080976
Watch the pyro buffs be simply removing him from the game. Thanks b4nny.
>>344123674
B4nny says he's team Pyro (because he wants new changes for him)
>>344096001
You're not wrong, it's basically a worse Process, with one of the worst last points of any 5CP map
6s players latched onto it because they wanted something different to look at, but also wanted a familiar layout so they didn't have to relearn everything
>>344096536
>>heavy
>>good at anything except last point tanking
>kek. let me know how many heavies you see in true comp
competitive players ban GRU because Heavy is actually viable to mid with GRU+Sandvich and they don't want to play against that shit because it makes the game less fast paced
if GRU and Sandvich were allowed you'd likely see Heavies used, even on offense, in pretty much every game
>>344084648
for you
>>344123739
I'm not going to trust a man complaining about how op the air blast when fucking up every air blast he tried on stream and generally being even worse than your typical f2p pyro
So how do they fix Pyro. More health and a lot more damage on the regular flamethrower?
>>344116897
Person who replied to the person you replied to here.
Soda Popper is actually legit slightly OP. It lets Scout basically fly, avoiding all splash damage on the ground for long enough to kill someone, and it's got better Damage Per Minute than the Scattergun does.
>>344124110
with no class limits it ain't so scary with 2 demos.
>>344085403
Yeah, it's so hard for the XBOX 360 community. Using a controller kind gimps some of the characters and it'd be good to see something for the console crowd.
>>344121309
Literally what is wrong with Scoot and Solder?
Even Spy is about as good as it can get for a stealth based class in a multiplayer game.
>>344124509
I think in order to make it offensively viable you'd need to give it an entirely new Flamethrower focused on mobility. Pic related would be nice- something harder to use, but making you go faster or even fly.
Then it needs bugs fixed. There are bugs holding back its usefulness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Az-g0YIIpk
Also I'd like to see the Flamethrower cone narrowed and lengthened, so it takes a little more skill to aim to train on a dodging enemy, more akin to a lightning gun, while being more effective.
I would buff Afterburn's damage on the stock Flamethrower. Apart from airblasting, Pyro's original niche was meant to be afterburn, being the DoT class. Yet, afterburn is ridiculously easily extinguished, and does shitty damage (takes 10 seconds to do 60 damage, which is less than a single melee hit). So, I'd buff afterburn damage from 6 damage per second to 8 per second (same as bleeding) on Pyro's stock Flamethrower.
I'd also give the Backburner a new buff: -60% self-damage taken. Detonator jumping is Pyro's most skilled movement technique, but it costs too much HP per jump to be viable. Doing this would make both weapons more useful and give Pyro a more skillful way to play.
Finally, I'd rework the way Spy's cloak flickering works. Currently if you hit an invisible Spy with bullets or explosions, you reveal him for 0.5 seconds. As a buff in Gun Mettle, Valve made duration of damage over time effects, such as afterburn, reduced while Spy was invisible. I'd shift that buff: cloak flicker now only lasts for half the time (0.25 seconds), but the afterburn reduction from Gun Mettle would be removed. Thus, Spy would be buffed slightly against all classes, and Pyro would become the most vital class for really rooting out an invisible Spy (though the other classes would still be capable of it, it'd be harder).
>>344094219
>playing with anything but stock + kritz
any class do whatever pyro can, better even
any class can spycheck
medic can extinguish teammates.
engi can unsap stuff
demo can wreck the shit out of the enemy engi
and you wont need to deny ubers if you don't have a shit team.
I used to play in a 6s steel team as a medic, and we had a hl branch, but they had 8 players and they would draw the pyro from anyone from the 6s team, he's useless, can be outdone by anyone, and all he is for is reflecting shit
B4nny says the War update is not based around a frag counter. He says it will work well with matchmaking.
>>344127790
Airblast can deny soldiers, demos, and all ubers.
>>344128083
>Airblast can deny soldiers, demos
Even the best pyros don't have perfect prediction skills
>>344127790
>steel team
>>344128212
It's easy to do unless they're right in your face, and even then you can at least buy time since they have to stagger shots so keep from being too predictable.
Plus, nothing is more effective at extinguishing then a pyro, same with spychecking since everyone will see the person ignite rather than you just shooting wildly at some wandering engie.
>>344084903
Heavies destroy Pyros.
Heavies aren't really in need of a rework; they are fine as they are. It is a class that relies quite heavily on positioning, that's all. You can't expect to just go out like a moron, with that movement speed, and expect to just mow down everyone. You have to know the flow of the game and be there. One step ahead.
Pyro is fine, too. Only bad players think he's either broken or in need of a buff -- notice that's always the overriding opinions, it's one of those two. There's never one real opinion.
>>344084104
Does an overwatch player HAVE to fucking comment on a tf2 thread?
You're like the vegans of gamers
kys faggot
>>344098829
>heavy useless in competitive
thats retarded
youre retarded
>>344099270
>lenny faces
>"peaceful sandvich" heavies
>team doesnt contest the point
>pyros
>>344128845
the flamethrower is literally broken and has been since the game's inception
>>344129347
not even
>>344129528
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXUw8F35bs
>>344129878
delete this
everything about pyro is overpowered
>is invulnerable to afterburn
>can give players afterburn effect
>can push enemies with airblast
>can extinguish team members with airblast (which now gives you health boost)
>is fast
>decent health
>can break sappers
>can set people on fire at almost any range with flare gun
>crit galore
im sure theres more
>>344129878
im not watching this
>>344129985
>>344130159
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BFm82SFsYs
>>344099270
>team mates who behave like enemy spies because they're stupid and new
>heal target spamming shots at someone on the other side of the map while two scouts murder me
>bumping into a cloaked spy while I'm fighting another two spies
>pyros who don't feel like extinguishing me
>team splits up instead of rallying around the only medic
>kamikaze spy who sees my low health and runs at me head-on while flailing his knife wildly
>enemy team is a well-coordinated unit while my team is too timid to leave our spawn
>medics who treat the medi gun like it chews ammo
>teleporter exit facing a wall
>engineers defending the wrong point on defence
>engineers defending the spawn on offence
>pyros who don't feel like spy checking
>snipers who refuse to temporarily switch class while they're being spawn camped
>team mate grabs a medkit while I'm healing him
My main problem always was that there's virtually no players on any good maps. 99% still plays orange/2fort and will that change? this is my casual jam. I don't think anyone can take an rng heavy game like this seriously competitive wise.
>>344089070
H-how do I vote?
>People that vote Pyro
>>344131857
>voting heavy
haha friendly hoovy!!
>>344129878
>>344130293
>game is nine years old
>this still happens
hell id vote pyro just to fix this shit
>>344101293
>if you are already premium you only have to give up your phone number an you can play for free
Cancer
>>344084903
Heavy doesn't like burnt sandvich
>>344104424
>I've noticed that soldier mains get really pissy if I don't only heal them/pocket them.
Christ this.Another safe indicator is the guy having an unusual autistic hat.
>2016
>not playing Street Fighter 5
Kys casuals
>>344129991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuDqNLgVHv8
>>344095678
Yes and that's all it took for every faggot to latch onto him.
Anyway shitposting aside, how do we fix these classes?
>>344129991
Like if afterburn is hard to deal with.
Airblast got nerfed and is an annoyance at best in comparison to what other classes should do. I still think it should not exist but just because of it's concept of being annoying and silly.
That can only make other pyros even weakers against eachother, and again, is not like you don't a shiton of ways to extinguish yourself or others. And even when you can get some health, what are you going to do with it if your movibilty and damage is shit and you need to be hurt to notice that it exist. It is something that helps pyro but it does nothing but helps you reach you max hp.
His speed is 300hu/s, equal to spy, sniper and engi. Nothing fast about that and the weapongs that give mobility to him remove either his already low hability to deal damage or his health plus the damage.
THe sappers makes him more of a utility class and a bigger counter to an already weak class. Not going to deny that is usefull.
with a 2s cooldown and it's not hard to dodge anyway.
I did not undertand the crit gallore thing, unless you are talking about the phlog. And if that is what you mean, good loock aproaching somebody to even think about dealing damage without access to airblast.
>im sure theres more
Yeah, the massive ammount of bugs he has
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EqUMvk3dpO1gLQLmUaHn7DyLrK-dj3qnPzz8Mb21-vw/edit?pageId=112306468662436496390&pref=2&pli=1
>>344131527
is that a guy
https://www twitch tv/b4nny/v/76677467?t=3h52m42s
New weapons confirmed
This is from another thread, but I'll post here if the other person is here and for the sake of argument.
>>344134169
>Damage dealing is his job he makes opening for his team to work off of. Also since the radius nerf in high level play demo has been doing less DPM on average than soldiers and scouts. If he didn't have utility with sticky traps he would be underpowered.
His spam and damage would not be needed if classes like the scout would not be so strong in the first place. I understand the changes of the radius but he still can deal more than decent damage due to the ammount of ammo he has and some chocky areas/maps.
>>Stickies should work like the LnL and deal less damage against building or something
>And turn every game into a 6 engie stalemate? Demo has to exist to deal with sentry spam.
That was I typo; I tried to say deal more damage to building, that's why I used the LnL as an example.
>>344134234
Pyro needs his bugs fixed and either
A. Buff degreaser and make him about comboing again
B. Buff afterburn and make him a debuff support class
Heavy needs his rampup removed altogether, GRU needs another downside so he can't use them to run to mid then never take them out. FoS needs the switch exploit fixed. I honestly don't know what to do about the sandvich.
Sniper needs his bodyshot damage dropped to 125, longer reloads, and shouldn't be able to get headshots at close range. His secondaries need to be nerfed hard to line up with the SMG.
Scout needs slightly wider scattergun spread. A lot of his unlocks need work.
Demo is fine for the most part, LNL needs reduced player damage for how hard it fucks over engineers. Demoknight needs to stay in the trash.
Medic needs crossbow nerfed, ubersaw nerfed, syringe guns buffed, and remove his self healing bonus on hurt teammates. He wins games just by existing he should not be that powerful.
Engineer wrangler is still a bit strong. I'd actually like to see the repair penalty removed but at the cost of it not working with the RR so splash can still kill him. Minis need their old build rate back but remove the knockback so they aren't so fucking good at air control.
Spy's fire resistant items and DR needs to go. He shouldn't be able to ignore his hard counter nor should he be encouraged to be as obvious as possible. As for buffs I'm not really sure what but he definitely needs a lot of them. Maybe buff revolver spread and his health to 150? Fixing bugs would help a lot too, disguise kit isn't very reliable and reloading while disguised is very difficult for no real reason.
Soldier needs a lot of his unlocks nerfed.
>>344135306
>if classes like the scout would not be so strong in the first place
How exactly is this related to demo? This has more to do with overheal and there being no other real long range indirect burst damage class. No other class can do his job, soldier can't hit players behind cover and can't detonate his rockets. Not that I'm saying scout isn't a bit too strong but I don't think that's the issue here.
>he still can deal more than decent damage due to the amount of ammo he has and some chocky areas/maps.
That sounds more like a map problem and not a demo problem. Obviously if you're playing on shit like dustbowl demo is going to be overpowered. That is not to say chokes should be gotten rid of entirely, they need to exist so scouts can't just walk all over teams. Good map design is key here to strike a balance between chokes and open areas.
Demo's ammo is not an issue either, sticky sniping he needs all 8 to do any significant damage and to be able to get sticky traps out fast enough that when retreating he can put them down before scouts catch up. Ammo management is one of the hardest things to master as a demo as any invite demo main will tell you, he has the longest reloads of any class in the game.
>>344135409
>>Sniper needs his bodyshot damage dropped to 125, longer reloads, and shouldn't be able to get headshots at close range.
Stopped reading there
>>344135306
>That was I typo; I tried to say deal more damage to building, that's why I used the LnL as an example.
I think engies are a bit too strong but the changes should be applied to engineer and his unlocks, not demo. Don't fix what isn't broken.
>>344136138
>oneshotting 5/9 classes for shooting them in the foot is totally fair guys.
>>344092084
wow edgy
Can we all agree that TF2 becoming F2P was one of the key factors to it being unfun? Double goes for it becoming entirely community content dependent.
>>344136249
>get your foot blown off
>ye i still got this
>>344136667
>bringing realism into tf2
>>344136531
It went F2P because it was losing a lot of players. F2P honestly brought the game back to life after it almost died, even if a lot of the people that came along with the update weren't the best.
And Valve have always been community dependent. TF2 was just a remake of a mod from Quake, Dota 2 is a "sequel" to a WC3 mod, Portal is game based on a more realized indie game idea. Half Life and Left 4 Dead were their only original games.
>>344136787
>that was my point
>>344134924
>The pyro gets an entire new weapon slot
>Its a Gas can and Matches
Welp whos ready for pyro to either be useful and bullshit or completely worthless like its always been ?
>>344135409
Even when I don't like the idea of the damage you can deal with bodyshoots right now, changing it too much would make Medic really fucking strong. Maybe changing things like the rate of fire or something similar could a little bit better.
>>344136053
How exactly is this related to demo? His damage is high and even when proyectiles are harder to aim than hitscan weapon, especially when you need to charge them first, if the fastest class is weaker, dealing damage to it is going to be less relevant as a demo since the slower classes can still be spamed/attacked. If classes like the scout were weaker, him not being able to deal too much damage as they try to approach would not be that bad, especially because the scout is an overall good class. You could change it so you can increase the base radius of the stricky the more you charge it, incresing his chance to deal damage from distance at the cost of reducing spam, that is really boring to fight against.
>That sounds more like a map
Yes, and is not like the maps in this game are laking in choky areas anyway. Also, what class would is better in areas that are not chocky at all? the class that would be nerfed so it's not a pain in the ass deal with: the scout again. That's why I put those 2 togheter.
And for your last part, on top of what I've said before, I will add that if you change his spammy playstyle you could work around his "problem" of ammo manangment. Cont,...
>>344128956
They have to justify their shitty purchase
>>344137041
>changing it too much would make Medic really fucking strong
Sniper can still kill medic in 1 headshot that hasn't changed. Anything other nerfs should be applied to medic himself.
Being able to kill someone by landing ONE bullet anywhere on the body with no counter play is dumb game design period. Especially with how quickly he can shoot and relocate, avoiding his sightlines argument doesn't hold because of this. Plus he's just cancerous in general, trashy players gravitate to him like flies to shit and waste slots because he's a no risk high reward class.
Of course, Heavy is the best class. Hands down.
The important question is what is YOUR favourite loudout to use for heavy?
Natascha for support fire and dat slowdown
Dalokohs Bar for mini medkits for my teammates on the fly
And the good ol' fashioned fists for the time calls for it
>>344135409
The scatter spread is the same as the shotgun. Increasing it would mean too many other classes would outrange it. The primary of scout is the scatter and you are comparing it to secondaries.
>>344136053
>>344137041
The problem with demo and the ammo is that he is constantly spamming and trying to be as far away as possible to the enemy, so things like grabing dropped ammo boxes is not a good options to him, and you can't stay relevant in the fights if you are constantly looking for ammo boxes, so if you can change his spammy playstyle while keeping his defensive capabilities and also letting him be a good sentry counter, you could fix that. Spam is simply not fun to play against and is one of the main reason why you can have only one demo per team in 6s.
>>344136167
The problem with engies is that when you see them in alternative settings, the difference in what makes him powerfull is completely different. I'm not saying that it's impossible to nerf the engie without making it usefull, because maybe I don't get the whole picture of the game or i am simply stupid, but the problem is how do you make sentry nest less effective without creating a situation where having only one is goint to be a terribly weak strategy/alternative.
Maybe there is somethinn obvious that I'm seeing, but it seems easier to change everything else that find a way to make sentry nests less powerfull while not making them terrible when used alone or in comp.
>>344080976
heavy 4 lyfe
>>344137454
I use a christmas lights stock minigun, the chocolate bar and the fast running gloves.
>>344124691
FaN is fun, but it kinda sucks. The damage you sacrifice for mobility is so crap.
>>344137041
>His damage is high and even when proyectiles are harder to aim than hitscan weapon
Why is this a problem? You want medic to not be too strong, somebody has to be able to outpace his overheals.
>dealing damage to it is going to be less relevant as a demo since the slower classes can still be spamed/attacked
You're looking at this as if demo needs that damage for scouts, no that's not the point. Demo needs damage because overheals exist. Without medics games drag out because players don't have health to waste attacking. Same kinda thing with demo if he didn't exist the game would also be dragged out because each team would stay in one giant group around the medic on opposite sides of the map and wait for somebody to overextend because focus fire would be the only way to reliably get kills. Also it would make comebacks much more difficult without sticky traps to stop team momentum.
>Yes, and is not like the maps in this game are laking in choky areas anyway
Which is why almost every comp map now is community made. This is being fixed with their inclusion in stock rotation.
>Also, what class would is better in areas that are not chocky at all?
Scout, heavy, and sniper. Scout excels in open areas.
>>344137508
Scatter also does more damage than the shotgun too. It doesn't make much sense for a short barreled shotgun to be just as accurate as the regular one.
>Increasing it would mean too many other classes would outrange it.
That's the point, scout's difficulty comes from getting in close without taking damage. As it is right now his spread is way too accurate where the meta at high levels is to just not get in close at all and do consistent 60 damage from complete safety. This is why scout is considered the strongest class.
>>344091301
Undertale, Steven Universe, homestuck
>>344137912
Soldiers who can rocket jump correctly destroy the open area because barring sticky jumps no one is going to move faster than them and their starting HP is already 2nd highest. A soldier can get to any point in an open area better than almost any other class, faster, and still have HP to spare from a single jump.
>>344080976
In the current game the match up is probably like 90:10 Heavy.
>>344138131
It does more damage because it's a primary.
Also real world logic kinda doesn't play into this. Just balance. And, from a balance perspective, a primary typically should probably be stronger than a secondary.
>>344137445
You can't always have enought room to land a headshoot, especially not if a medic knows you are watching he will try to be protected. And as I said, I think his bodyshoot damage is really fucking strong, even if it takes 8 seconds to fully charge one it still is going to be fucking bullshit to die by one, but you could change things like lowering the bodyshoot damage of regular sniper rifle and make the Machina deal enought to kill a medic to compensate. You coul still kill a player but with downsides. The damage he can deal in terms of damage per single shoot and rate of fire need a rework but without making him useless. And people picking is something that I have no idea how to deal with because they can stay in spawn all day long trying to get headshoot from there of fighting other snipers. He need to be atleast good against medics and heavies but without being bullshitingly good that the whole match consist of killing the sniper before trying to do anything at all.
>>344138381
B4nny says the update won't be based around a frag counter. There won't be 12v12 heavies and pyros. It will work well with matchmaking.
Why do people still play TF2 when Overwatch exists?
>>344138590
>bring up tf2
>a blizz shill shows up
like pottery.
>>344138225I like all of those things
>>344137536
>The problem with demo and the ammo is that he is constantly spamming and trying to be as far away as possible to the enemy
I assure you that is not the case, demos WANT to be as close as possible so they can m1/m2 and annihilate people without charging but if he dies his team cannot stop their advance so he has to be extremely careful not to overextend. Sticky sniping is not easy to do and calling it "spamming" is just ridiculous. If a demo is close enough to just spam stickies your soldiers and scouts need to jump in and punish him for it.
I don't really get what you're trying to say in the second part. You want demos to get closer? So basically another soldier? What's the point of that?
>but the problem is how do you make sentry nest less effective without creating a situation where having only one is goint to be a terribly weak strategy/alternative.
Don't? Engineer exists to counter scouts, not entire teams. An engineer should not be able to hold by himself. What should be done is buff his minis so he can deal with scout spam outside of last and nerf level 3s so they're not so frustrating for anything that isn't demo.
>it's the Heavy update all over again
>6 Heavies on a team
>Nataschas, Sashas and other shit galore
Pyro's Crits of Flamethrower deals less damage than regular Minigun damage of Heavy and on a worse distance with huge fall off, if it's Pyro v Heavy then Pyro has already lost.
>>344138308
>Soldiers who can rocket jump correctly destroy the open area because barring sticky jumps no one is going to move faster than them and their starting HP is already 2nd highest.
Scouts absolutely shit on jumping soldiers. A scout on high ground is the most terrifying thing in TF2.
>>344080976
How is TF2 these days now that all the retards fucked off to Overwatch?
tf2 is so shitty nowadays
u log in and you're face is blasted with loads of bullshit on the screen
then u get in game and u got killstreaks, u got gay ass dance taunts, u got these fucking broken ass weapons that are not fun to play against, u got this fuckin gay ass gun skins bullshit that throws u off on telling what weapon the other person is usin
its not even tf2 anymore imo unless ur playin a vanilla server
>>344092441
>have a medic on you
>have effectively 563 health when revved up
>enemies can't kill you
>slowdown bullets mean that enemies can't run away
holy shit what was valve thinking
>>344138760
Level 3 aren't really strong, they have the same fire rate than level 2 and rockets hardly hit on a distance.
>>344138436
>It does more damage because it's a primary.
So what? Does that mean we shouldn't balance primaries?
>a primary typically should probably be stronger than a secondary.
And it is, I'm not saying the scattergun needs a damage nerf just that scout has to get closer if he wants to do serious damage.
>Also real world logic kinda doesn't play into this
This has more to do with balance, scout is undeniably too strong in his current form.
Reducing his accuracy not only makes him balanced also makes logical sense ingame.
>>344138678
You're the cancer killing online communities.
>>344138969
here's your [u]
>>344139024
That's not the point, I'm saying regular sentries in general are too hard to deal with because of unlocks like the wrangler, short circuit, and rr. Their role is to stop flanking scouts and waste a bit of uber time, not to be a brick wall to the attacking team.
>>344137912
He is spammy and boring to fight against. You can keep his damage without creating a spamfest if you change they way the radius/damage of the sticky launcher works so you give him attack power without ruining his defensive/sentry destroyer capabilities.
I'm not limiting his idea of damage just for the scouts, just that they are the more relevant in terms of getting close with their movibility/overheal and how much damage they can deal once they are close enought. The slower classes are going to be easier to hit with his weapons get more damage to them and airshoots are going to be as hard as always if you get fucked in a situation like that. You can keep the concept of him being a damage dealer without creating a spam fest.
And yes, I know Valve maps sucks, but not everything is around comp game, pubs can always exist along them so I was going with ideas towards a more neutral result in terms of playing comp and pubs.
Yeah, and sniper are not going to die by a demo just like now, and heavies are slower and easier to hit, and yes, scouts excels in open areas and that's why i talked about them when I mention what is one of the most relevant class to attack with spam or attacks from far away. Scout is simply really strong and if he is weaker, not being constantly spammin like now is not going to be THAT crucial.
>>344101369
>>344101493
Nerf on the Market Gardener was perfect.
>Needed a downside to not be a straight upgrade in no random crit servers.
>Slower swing speed doesn't effect people who were actually good at gardening.
>Slower swing speed fucks up babies who use the B.A.S.E. Jumper.
>>344138131
I'm telling you from experience. Mid range 60 damage isn't that far. It's damn close. At that range you're going to be in harm's way from everybody and everything barring a couple classes. However if people avoid those close range meatshots, I can tell you it's because at close range scout is gonna get fucked by a lot of shit since a meatshot is in fact, less than 125. So if they don't cooperate because they just want to be stubborn (I can't imagine WHY) or hit detection while you are both moving decides that regardless of where your cross hair was that flawless meatshot is 16 damage, they move, turn around, and you are dead due to melee critical, out damaging you at that range anyway, are a soldier and face explode you for a much bigger meatshot and survived both your initial meatshot and the splash damage that one shorted you, or a teammate of theirs killed you as they rushed in to save their teammate before you could get one meatshot in. The long and short of it is: when everything goes perfectly smoothly and goes your way, scout is great. When there's a hiccup, low HP means low margin for error. Classic mistake:. Failing to accommodate for Murphy's law.
>>344139237
I barely noticed the swing speed but anything to shit on base jumper shitters is good in my book.
>>344139140
>sapped by spy
>blown by soldier
>blown by demo
>sniped by sniper
>destroyed wirh ubercharge
It's extremely easy to deal with a sentry, if you ever find yourself thinking of it as a 'wall', it means that either your team is retarded ot the enemy team is defending it extremely well.
![15133B626B062CD0ABC9902B1276613808B99E6F[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/C9pPOmE.jpg "15133B626B062CD0ABC9902B1276613808B99E6F[1]")
I played a bunch of TF2 before OW came out and ended up playing almost exclusively Heavy. I hope he wins, and I think he'll win in a landslide DESU.
Here's an autistic SFM thing I made with my loadout.
>>344105251
>>344138486
>but you could change things like lowering the bodyshoot damage of regular sniper rifle and make the Machina deal enought to kill a medic to compensate
Then everyone would just use the machina without giving it other serious downsides. No not being able to fire close range is not enough.
>but without making him useless
He is crazy strong in the current meta and hasn't been touched since release. I don't think it's unreasonable for sniper to get some nerfs, everyone else has had their share now its his turn. We don't play on dustbowl or 2fort anymore he is way too effective on todays maps.
>He need to be atleast good against medics and heavies but without being bullshitingly good that the whole match consist of killing the sniper before trying to do anything at all.
Heavy I agree but killing medics should be more difficult than just bodyshotting him. I don't think 125 is unreasonable that's enough to make him a very easy pick for the roamer or flanking scout.
>>344138909
Depends. Some rocket jumping soldiers go straight up and down and are easy pickings. Others laterally move faster than even full speed bfb scouts and are far enough away that there's little the Scout's loadouts can do.
>>344105251
>mfw another player uses the Brock Samson full outfit
I know the vest isn't part of it but it's the closer we can get, nice
>>344139273
>Mid range 60 damage isn't that far
Bear with the shitty picture but consider that from the spawn door to the opposite wall scout can still do 40 damage. That's pretty damn far for a "short range" class. Most scouts will stand around the second hay pile and do 60~70. That gives him plenty of room to react to anything you throw at him. Then add in props and uneven terrain and scout becomes a menace.
You can throw anecdotes around all you want the fact is he is the strongest DM class. He dominates 6v6 meta. This is not up for debate, unless you think you know better than the best players in the world.
>or hit detection while you are both moving decides that regardless of where your cross hair was that flawless meatshot is 16 damage
Lan conditions this isn't as much of an issue. TF2's hit registration in general sucks but that's not a reason to buff classes, everyone has to deal with it.
>When there's a hiccup, low HP means low margin for error.
That doesn't matter if he doesn't get hit in the first place and has constant overheals.
>>344138760
I never tried to imply that he should be positioned like a sniper, just not as close as soldiers and scouts so he could simply grab dropped ammo boxes from the ground. Spammin in the sense of creating more dps by a high fire of rate instead of slower, more precise/consistent shoots.
I don't want demos to get closer since that is his weakness, just changing they way he has to deal damage or play in general. I don't want to reemplace anybody nor be a weaker/stronger version of something else, just keeping his defense while not being so spammy but still being able to deal damage.
>Engineer exists to counter scouts, not entire teams.
Yeah, that's the theory, but is not like a mix of 3+ sentries are not going to shoot at you just because you are not a scout. A group of engies can be a fucking bitch, especially if they know how to play and are babysitting the sentries with rescue ranger/wangler, but it's easier to buff the counter of the engies than weaking him, otherwise if you have an engy alone he could end up too weak against a little bit more of cordination. His unlocks are really strong but you can either nerf them a little bit to not fuck up engies who are alone or buff his counters. Engies in pubs are a fucking wall, but that does not mean a engy alone should have no options or be to weak as a cost to that.
>>344139441
>Others laterally move faster than even full speed bfb scouts and are far enough away that there's little the Scout's loadouts can do.
That's really only true for rollouts, going for high speed pogos is not consistent and wastes a lot of potential dps and health.
>>344139387
>sapped by spy
Shotgunned or wrenched.
>blown by soldier
wrangler or sc
>blown by demo
well yeah but demo counters engie anyway.
>destroyed wirh ubercharge
sure but now you're bringing in multiple players. 2v1 engineer should obviously lose.
>>344139869
I don't know what to tell you I've seen plenty of soldiers do these kinds of rocket jumps from single jumps, not a rollout. Totally just whimsically decide to go sanic speed with little sacrifice to HP, not that it matters when you can go from on medkit to the next. Just seen it plenty of times from both sides. Soldier blasts off and is gone. Pew. Ya know? No pogo required.
>>344139424
Yes, I too think he is strong af especially in settings like hl, that's why I was talking about him in terms of after nerf/balance change. Even when bodyshoot are shit as hell, the only think I came up with was adding damage falloff to body shoots and if you want less of that (like going with the machina with less damage falloff or the higher damage when fully charged) you are going to be always at a disavantage. That's the only thing that could fuck up a sniper enought so a match does not turn around him, also not making it turn around the other sniper who killed him, and also a veeeeeeeery risky chance of trying to keep pub player out of that class or atleast take more risk (using the machina would fucked them against other sniper that can aim and the damage fall off of bs could force them to get out or switch classes, but I highly doubt it could work because you could just slow the fight between people who would never get out anyway or just create a bitching factory). If you add something like taking more time to scope, that does not change the ammount of damage they can deal after waiting a bunch of seconds, and if you change his dmg on bodyshoots, medics can be a fucking bitch to deal with. He is hard to balance and I don't if you want to hear ideas because it's getting too long and the thread is about to 404.
>>344138914
uh, tf2 is the free2play garbage here, son
>>344139157
>You can keep his damage without creating a spamfest
Demo cannot spam without putting himself in serious danger, you can't take pub experiences and say they are reasons to nerf.
If a demo has poor positioning any scout or soldier is going to jump in his face and fuck him up. Killing the demo is just as important as dropping the med, he cannot afford to be that aggressive.
>if you change they way the radius/damage of the sticky launcher works
They already did and his DPM has dropped significantly. He is already beaten by soldier and scout in damage you cannot justify it going any lower.
>just that they are the more relevant in terms of getting close with their movibility/overheal and how much damage they can deal once they are close enought
Scouts do not do enough to break overheals without meatshots and no scout worth his salt is going to do that because being close enough to land meatshots means eating rockets. He cannot replace demo. He also can only focus one target at a time, scout does not have demos crowd control.
>but not everything is around comp game
Valve is trying to change that.
>pubs can always exist along them so I was going with ideas towards a more neutral result in terms of playing comp and pubs.
Pubs are never going to be perfectly balanced, no amount of changes is going to fix that because being able to stack classes and having 12 players on shitty chokepoint filled maps makes balance nearly impossible. It is a miracle it is not as bad as it is.
>love the reserve shooter on soldier
>fucking hate it on pyro
>if it gets nerfed pyro shitters will cry but soldier will be less fun
>if it gets buffed it'll be even better on soldier but make me hate it in pyros even more
>>344139781
That's still pretty danger close senpai. Close enough that you are still putting yourself in harm's way. High risk. High reward.
>>344140191
>I don't know what to tell you I've seen plenty of soldiers do these kinds of rocket jumps from single jumps
Even ctapping soldiers can only go so far, to be fully out of scout range most soldiers will do a wall jump to get more height. As for speed you have to have a wall to jump off of which limits how high you can go and even that isn't so fast a scout couldn't hit him. He has a hitscan shotgun and soldier is a giant target.
>>344140457
>That's still pretty danger close senpai. Close enough that you are still putting yourself in harm's way. High risk. High reward.
Then you don't know what you're talking about and have never played against anything other than pubbies. A scout at that distance is nearly unkillable. That's like the same distance from one healthkit to another on process and you're telling me a scout couldn't dodge a rocket from that far away? what are you smoking?
>>344140435
They should remove it from the Pyro and give the Pyro something similar.
>>344140516
Not sure on the technicals, senpai. Just know what I see on a fairly regular basis. Wall jump or no, soldiers have no trouble outpacing scouts when and where they want, if they have the space. Harvest and badwater jump to mind with seeing this kind of supersonic flight. Often see soldiers get past the sentry nest by that large rock cairn that usually goes up because they go so fast they only take just a little damage. sucks being on the other end of it because they can spawn camp something nasty. Being on the giving end means easier to push and attack that sentry as a class that normally wouldn't.
>>344140319
It does not to be lower, just different when you want to mix how many times you need to shoot in comparison to how damage you can realistically deal. And I'm not limiting everything around pubs, that's why I said in the last thread that there is NO WAY in the current state of the balance of the classes to touch a single one of these main ones (scouts, soldiers, demos, medics and snipers) without changing the rest because they are powerfull alone but are needed to counter the others since they also are strong. So nerf what makes demo weak (over heal, people positition themself without taking a lot of damage, etc), nerf what makes overheal strong (damage of other classes), or buff the rest to create variation. That's why I said you either nerf those classes and create a slow passed gameplay or buff the rest to catch up for a faster one without being retarded. And again, I don't want any class to reemplace anybody.
I understand that pubs can change, but it's possible to do it in such a way that you can create variation in the gameplay, and you basically have two groups right now: (soldier, sc, demo, medic, and sp) and the rest. Untill we can see how future game are going to be like, there is not much to say about how the gameplay is going to be affected. Right now the balance of the weapons and classes turn around the idea of what class/weapon you MUST use to not give your enemy an advantage instead of creating different strategies in the matches.
>>344140435
literally just reduce the clip size from 4 to 3 like it used to be before they buffed it and she'll be roight
>>344139805
>just not as close as soldiers and scouts so he could simply grab dropped ammo boxes from the ground
If he wants to grab ammo boxes from corpses he has to be as close as soldier and scout which puts his life at risk. What you're saying doesn't make any sense.
>Spammin in the sense of creating more dps by a high fire of rate instead of slower, more precise/consistent shoots.
That's exactly what sticky sniping is, charging those shots drops his DPS A LOT especially with falloff.
>just changing they way he has to deal damage or play in general
Why? How? I don't understand what this supposed solution of yours is. I don't see how you could possibly change demo in any way without fundamentally changing his role in the team. He needs blast radius for crowds, he needs range to force players out of position, he needs a large ammo count for sentries and heavies, and he needs high damage to cut through overheals.
>Yeah, that's the theory, but is not like a mix of 3+ sentries are not going to shoot at you just because you are not a scout
Yes but you should have options. In a 1v1 anything other than a scout should have a fair matchup against an engineer. 3 engineers should only need 3 people to blow them all up, etc etc.
>A group of engies can be a fucking bitch
Yes which is why I'm saying he needs a nerf?
>but it's easier to buff the counter of the engies than weaking him
But he's strong against the other classes too, that is the issue and buffing demoman won't fix this. This is not fucking overwatch skill always takes precedence over class selection. If you're not that classes counter it should go either way depending on who is the better player.
>but that does not mean a engy alone should have no options or be to weak as a cost to that.
And I'm not saying he is, you still see teams using engineer all the time in 6s and he doesn't have wrangler or rr there. He wastes uber and stops backcaps and he doesn't need any unlocks to be effective at this.
>>344141102
That is why i said that his problem with managing ammo is that they ARE NOT in the same position as soldier. I highly think that you are getting confused between what I've said earlier, what I said in the old thread and also that I think you are talking with another dude along me. I will cut this message here because this is about to 404, i will read the rest later.
in other words, the changes I suggested would help be more viable in terms of usefullnes on attack and ammo.
>>344140627
I think the issue here is you believe that, scouts in the air have invulnerability. this is untrue, ya know? After the second jump, they're kinda set where they are going. Believe it or not that's not a lot of room to dodge a rocket as you might believe. unless LAN flawless ping environment. Bit that's not really realistic. That's really close enough in a close space where if you floor shoot the scout should be hit ya know?
>>344140293
>the only think I came up with was adding damage falloff to body shoots and if you want less of that
that's fine but I'm more of the belief that the long range class should be weaker at close range instead of having an effective range limit. If you flank him and get in his face sniper should be a free kill for anyone.
>using the machina would fucked them against other sniper that can aim and the damage fall off of bs could force them to get out or switch classes
Okay so you want the machina to be able to bodyshot but sniper has to be closer? I'm fine with that. Sniper being completely out of harms way and still being able to oneshot is what is most annoying about him.
>but I highly doubt it could work because you could just slow the fight between people who would never get out anyway or just create a bitching factory
If they don't switch off they're not being effective which is fine with me, F2Ps don't deserve free kills just because they're too lazy to do anything else. There is no other solution other than removing sniper altogether which I would like but we both know isn't going to happen.
>>344141102
Just a quickie one if you manage to read it. What I suggested is helping create more damage per sticky the more he charges his sticky before shooting so he can create damage with shoots that are easier to land than constant fire rate.
And again, I don't like to repeat myself too much, but I'm highly sure that you are confusing my concept or I'm expresing myself like shit because if I adress your points I'll basically need to write everything. Your conclusions are totally different to what I said and I could quote myself on that.
