What's the next best loot based ARPG after D2?
Dead genre, just like RTS.
>>344061661
Diablo 3On console
Its pretty dead otherwise.
Diablo 3 is WAY better than 2 at this point. Everybody who disagree either is a nostalgia mongoloid or doesn't know shit.
Path of exile
it's also miles ahead of d2
>>344062016
>Diablo 3 On console
stop this meme
>>344062221
It's much better on console you fucking retard
>>344062173
>>344062181
Don't you guys have some reddit posts to upvote or something?
>>344062173
If you're into a Top Down WoW Clone where all you do is spam cooldown rotations, yeah it's great. But, it plays nothing like the previous two Diablo's.
>>344062221
>PC
>Shittier loot
>Less drops
>Same density's as console
>trading
>Movement feels natural
Its the better version.
>>344061853
Don't forget arena shooters and MMOs.
>>344062173
I played both recently and Diablo 3 is still garbage. Power creep up the ass. What exactly do you like about it?
>>344062527
Arena shooters just got revamped to be hero FPS
MMO's are dying, but not dead.
Titan Quest was amasing beyond belief. If they implemented pvp it would be 10/10
>>344062590
>Power creep up the ass
That's the entirety of the hack'n'slash genre without exceptions.
Torchlight 2 is decent if you don't mind the art style.
>>344062173
>building a character literally doesn't matter
>the game assumes you're a casual fucktard and chooses abilities and slots them for you
Yeah, no.
Grim Dawn bar none
>>344062786
>beat the game on normal once
>character does 60,000 fucking damage
>inventory already completely full of pointless unique and set items that become redundant within a few levels
It's an endless boring grindfest with no goal. Diablo 2 was an boring grindfest too but at least you were working towards an endgame (finding those few rare and powerful items and runes).
>>344062712
>Arena shooters just got revamped to be hero FPS
A fate worse than death.
>>344062791
Torchlight 2 would be great if it has better classes. 95% of the skills are awful.
Path of Exile
>>344063332
Amen.
As if the genre wasn't already played to death with all the different RPG mods on Counter-Strike.
>>344061661
Grim Dawn
Path of Exile
Titan quest
Diablo 3
Torchlight 2
Vaguely in order of quality.
>>344062917
>that underbite
grim dawn is p fun
>>344062834
>not turning on advanced settings
are you new?
Marvel Heroes desu
Ive never found something that equals d2, because of its ability to give you massive power spikes
something as simple as a +80 mana ring can suddenly make a barbarian several time as strong, because you can WW multiple times before running out of mana, (assuming no leech yet) which makes every single fight go much more smoothly
the bottom line is that the longer games get made, the more overdesigned they get, which removes the ability for the player to find OP combinations and enjoy them
blizzard first started overproducing games with War3, where every single unit was balanced on a spreadsheet before implementation
>>344062927
>60,000 damage
>high damage
That is plebe tier damage like lowest of the low. Your average properly geared character will hit in the millions.
>>344062834
Characters do matter because they offer different benefits for group play, you will never see a 4 man wizard group at the top of the leaderboards. The same can be said for all the other classes. Solo is somewhat the same since some classes do better damage than others.
>Slots skills for you.
Do you even know what elective mode is? You can choose whatever the fuck 6 skills you want.
All in all its a decent hack and slash game with lots of loot to get. Like all blizzard games the main fun is the endgame content. The patches have made the game pretty decent but by no means an absolute masterpiece. Odds are all the people shitting on it havent played it recently. There is good build diversity with plenty of ways to play. Obviously to get to the top of the leaderboards you have to play a certain way and use specific items but for the most part, for the average player, you can play however way you want.
The entire genre is terrible skinner box bullshit, almost as bad as MMOs
Lost Ark looks great but who knows when that'll finally come to the west.
>>344064484
>your average properly geared character will hit in the millions
That's bad game design.
>>344064426
seems like you didn't play many games
and also like you didn't get far into diablo if mana ring on barb gives you boner
your war 3 complaint is also pretty stupid
i'll just call you a faggot
>>344064484
>That is plebe tier damage like lowest of the low. Your average properly geared character will hit in the millions.
That's the problem though. I shouldn't be at lvl 60 and doing these huge numbers of damage so early. This is the problem with power creep; everything just scales too damn fast which makes your gear redundant really fast, which means you're just constantly needing to replace your gear with items with higher stats. This detracts from the other unique properties of loot you might want to look out for.
In Diablo 2 you could use Sigon's set for example is useful throughout all of Normal. There is nothing like this in Diablo 3 as far as I know.
>>344064426
When did this "having a balanced game is bad" meme begin?
>>344064705
Key word being properly geared. It takes time to get the right gear and even then, if your character can make big damage you have to balance survivability, knowing how to play certain builds and knowing which types of monsters you can kill in the alotted time (if you are doing greater rifts). An average player can probably do Greater rift 60 to 80 (with 80 being on the high spectrum. A great player who knows the limitations of his character and his build and properly balances damage and damage mitigation can do mid 90's to 100's.
>>344065123
I really like vanilla WoW in terms of damage where everything above 5k is a monstrous hit.
>>344065123
>which means you're just constantly needing to replace your gear with items with higher stats
I thought that's why you played those games
Doesn't eternally looting shit with higher numbers make you fags love a game?
Path of Exile > D2 > D3 > Every other ARPG is garbage.
D2 held the throne for eons, POE has certainly surpassed it now. There is no finer successor than one made by devs who absolutely love D2.
>>344061661
Grim Dawn
>>344065330
People who don't see the problem with this are the problem.
>>344065123
power creep has nothing to do with scaling too fast
>>344065123
Huge number is relative.
Critizising a game because big numbers trigger you is retarded.
>>344065392
In D2 the secondary properties were just as important as the primary ones, and there were many low/mid tier uniques and sets that would be useful for a long time, so it was very rewarding to find these items. One of the lowest tier unique items (Gull) for instance gives you 100 magic find which is always going to be useful. In D3, the only thing that matters is dps and your primary stat (str, sex, int), and you rarely find anything you would want to keep indefinitely because it's constantly scaling.
>>344065606
Where is that graph comparing player health, player damage and enemy health growth in Borderlands 2?
>>344065606
Except that exponential scaling makes perfect sense, otherwise your increase in levels just stops mattering in the endgame
They just needed to scale health accordingly
>>344065123
This is a blizzard loot based game. One of the main points of the game is to get more powerful loot. There are such things as items with unique properties which are essential for certain builds but ideally you'd want one of those unique weapons to be at the highest possible level (A level 60 X weapon that grants a unique property is going to be worse than that same X weapon that has level 70 stats.)
Also in the world of diablo III 60,000 is not a high number by any means. If you think 60,000 is too high then that is a personal opinion. The endgame content makes characters do millions of damage and thats how it is.
>>344065608
Maybe it's the wrong term then.
>>344065620
That's not my argument, read again.
>>344061661
path of exile is the only aRPG that came close to hooking me as deeply as D2 did.
>>344062426
I played D3 for a while and id have to agree, thats what turned me off from it
>>344065878
It's not the number itself that's the problem, it's the scaling. Items become outclassed way too fast because all that matters is the constantly increasing dps number. The fact that you do 60,000 damage at level 60 means you're never ever going to use an item you found a lot earlier in the game. This wasn't necessarily true in D2.
>>344066239
>find unique item at level 5
>it stays the best item throughout the entire game and you never switch it out
Totally sounds like fun
>>344066465
That's not what I meant. The items that last are rare uniques and sets for the most part, which made them valuable to look for, which is why D2 is such a great treasure hunting game. And runes to a lesser extent.
>>344064426
>mana ring a power spike when gold is no problem and you had 4 slot belts that you could fill with mana pots
>play world of warcraft
>have great end game gear all epics in final tier, or close to
>replace with first quest greens from expansion
>>344066674
>a great treasure hunting game
It's the literal same shit, clickspam monsters on the offchance you get a rare drop.
This genre is a fucking Skinner Box in which you do the same shit over and over again expecting a reward that has a 10^-4 chance of happening, it's the fucking same in D1, D2 and D3.
>>344066239
>>344066239
I'm going to say that is bad game design on D2's part. In a loot based game, finding an item early on when you're not even at max level, and that item remains useful for eternity is not good game design.
Granted what you are talking about is certainly doable in Diablo 3, but in order to play at the highest difficulty's which grant the best loot you need to have max level items for proper damage mitigation and dps.
If you want to have an item that grants a certain unique property, get the max level version of it.
>>344066465
It does. Finding a level 15 unique should not be outclassed by a level 16 white common trash. Replacing your good equipment should be a serious and heavy decision.
>>344066903
Sure but all I'm saying is D3 is the Skinner box without the reward.
>>344067016
Finding valuable items was the whole fun of the game though. Without that there isn't even a point to playing, since you're doing the same thing over and over while just slightly upping your dps with samey items.
>>344061661
I've always felt that diablo is really overrated in the loot department and a game like Baldur's Gate 1 or 2 has far more interesting and unique equipment.
>>344066239
the difference is in d3 it takes a couple hours to get to max level and after that you wont keep replacing gear that often.
>>344067103
A level 15 unique item (which I assume you're talking about a legendary item in D3) will last you like 10 levels, a one level above white trash item will never replace a unique item one level below it.
>>344067016
>In a loot based game, finding an item early on when you're not even at max level, and that item remains useful for eternity is not good game design.
Why?
>>344067245
>Sure but all I'm saying is D3 is the Skinner box without the reward.
That doesn't make D2 better, it just makes D2 a more effective Skinner Box.
Both games are trash.
>>344067246
They aren't comparable in any fucking way
>>344067512
Life itself is a Skinner box if you're going to be that picky.
Ragnarok Online is the true successor to Diablo 2
>>344061661
poe is decent, but d2 is still better
>>344067510
Because a max level item should always be one of the best. There's no point in leveled items if some items are good for eternity no matter the level. In that case why have your character level up?
>>344067246
diablo is overrated but lol no to your BG example
>>344067793
there is a point, because you have like 10 slots on your character so if you want to sacrifice one slot for a low lvl item with a unique property, it doesn't invalidate anything
also I fail to see any connection with character lvling, you can have a game where your character levels but loot remains roughly the same whole game.
>>344067824
It's true. Every special item in BG has a description and history tied to it with them often having unique effects. Some weapons you get early on can even be viable endgame instead of the loot treadmill of worthless equipment in many RPGs.
>>344068145
This is now a difference of opinion. In my mind, in a loot based game, a max level item should always be better than one that is at a significantly lower level. If this is not the case then I perceive that as bad game design. You think the opposite.
You can play that way in Diablo 3, nobody is stopping you from using a low level unique item, there are 10 different difficulty levels for a reason and nobody is forcing you to play online. Play however you want the game allows for it, just don't expect people online to want to play with you and don't expect to get the best max level items.
>>344067793
And why have your character level up if it simply means you are required to replace your entire equipment with the exact same things, but with progressively bloating numbers every time? There is no point in unique equipment (below maximum level) if a new baseline completely invalidates anything you've earned.
>>344062390
>>344062472
>Diablo 3
stop this meme
>>344068803
I don't play diablo 3 at all, it's a shit game.
There is absolutely no reason why only max lvl items should be usable in a "loot based game". In fact, the whole idea behind unique items (or legenderies, w/e) is that thay are, you know, unique.
>>344069015
It extends gameplay, it gives people more stuff to find, a reason to grind. Despite what you think there are a lot of people who enjoy that and that is why blizzard continues to do it. Also if you have been paying attention to the recent patches the game has put into place you will notice there is a plethora of new items to choose from, not just releveled versions of the same item over and over again.
>>344068621
nobody gives a fuck about histories
I like BG a lot, but diablos are about optimizing ways to kill shit
BG's items are bland and there are extremely few mechanics you can manipulate.
>>344069229
>doesn't play Diablo 3
>its a shit game, just trust me guys
/v/ in a nutshell
>>344069525
>i just took a dump
>better take a bite to make sure it tastes like shit
you in a nutshell
>>344062016
but Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 are both better than D3
>>344062786
>stacking one stat the whole game
nice game.
>>344066239
You could easily use a Nagelring from lv 40 to 70
PoE is so fucking boring, as is Grim Dawn. Slow, shitty gameplay that's more tedious than D2 ever was somehow. Why is D3 the only modern ARPG that's actually enjoyable to play? If they actually added new content worth a shit past the expansion and hadn't fucked it at launch with all those awful decisions like the RMAH, it might've had some actual legs to keep people playing.
>>344065606
Exponentially scaling damage wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for BL2 having shit drops rates and if it wasn't for BL2's enemy health scaling much faster than damage.
>>344062426
D2 didn't play anything like D1.
>>344071117
>PoE is so fucking boring(...). Slow, shitty gameplay that's more tedious than D2 ever was somehow.
People are funny. Poe community has been non stop complaining for months that the game has gone to shit, because everybody is oneshotting whole screens.
>>344068803
D3
>find a unique item
>item becomes outclasses by a white item a few checkpoints later
D2
>find a unique item
>nice I was rewarded for exploring/killing monsters/using magic find
>get to use the item for a long while
>add the unique to your collection
>keep it around for new characters who need a buff
>motivates you to be on the lookout for new uniques/sets
>>344071727
Why are you focusing on leveling when that basically doesn't matter in D3?
>>344069229
They changed this, they added in an update that gives you an amazing use for legendaries that you might not want to equip because stats are suboptimal. Kanai's cube is probably one of the better updates to D3 because it allowed a lot of the fun builds that were off meta at the time like thorns to actually work.
>>344061661
We should rather talk about all the ones that are better.
>>344069229
>There is absolutely no reason why only max lvl items should be usable in a "loot based game".
Because it's *not like D2*, retard. You hit max level easily and start doing content there.
>>344069094
>344062472
Was shit on PC, but on console its an amazing couch co-op game, fuck off
>>344062786
that's bullshit though. Diablo 3 dev teams idea of progress is to just increase your damage by 500% every few levels because they're fucking retarde.
>>344073209
That's still not a reason retard. Also he wasn't referring to Diablo 3 specifically retard, he said "loot based game" retard.
Retard.
>>344062927
>diablo 2 was no better but at least it gave cause to some of the worst OCD
You really make it sound like that should be mentioned as a positive.
Diablo 2 was the rainmaker for all the games that don´t give you any entertainment but keep people playing by nagging the hell out those autists.
>>344072409
>level cap is where the real game starts
cancer
>>344069513
>diablos are about optimizing ways to kill shit
And literally nothing else.
If you say that you are content with this you admit to being an autistic dullard.
>there are extremely few mechanics you can manipulate.
And now you admit to your own limited intelligence.
>>344073876
there goes more thought into creating one character in path of exile than went into the whole character system of adnd
if you actually spend time theorycrafting builds and item combinations for BG, then you described yourself perfectly
>>344074359
Character building is cancer.
>>344074579
>limited intelligence
>>344074724
Stop describing yourself. 3E went full Diablo 2 with character building and it destroyed the game.
>>344061661
Path of Exile. It's a no contest. It's been dominating since its release and it seems to only get better and better.
Torchlight 2 is the best Diablo 2 successor, but it's still far from perfect and has a fair amount of flaws.
>>344074960
stop embarrasing yourself dndfag, not only are you clueless, but you don't even know yourself what you are arguing
you said BG items > diabloshit, then say character building is cancer
just admit you lost your way on internet and leave, there is nothing here for you
>>344064053
This
h
i
s
>>344062221
>>344069094
As much as I hate Diablo III, I will agree that the console version is actually better.
Also it has one specific enemy that gets stronger the more it kills and can be a challenging one to boot.
>>344062173
>can't trade with other players
>no endgame economy
L M A O
M
A
O
>>344075245
Last time I tried playing it it was laggy as shit. Was that just a temporary thing or is that the state of the game?
>>344076861
Temporary, I haven't witnessed lag in a while.
>>344071545
It was actually very similar.
>>344077787
Said noone ever. Diablo 1 is a dungeon crawler while D2 is a loot grinding hack and slash.
>>344077624
It's actually unplayable for me with constant stuttering. My computer and internet are fine so I don't know what's going on.
>>344062173
Can you play offline? If yes, continue reading, if not, fuck off.
Can you easily trade without a hitch amongst other players? If ye-
Fuck it I know they didn't do this shit, you get the point, fuck yourself.
>>344076564
>no endgame
fixed
>>344077872
t. a 12 year old
>>344065326
Every current Diablo 3 player thinks they are some genius statistician and tactics master.
When in reality they Google some generic build then hunt the items, only replacing them when Google results dictate that a specific green number is better than others.
The game practically plays itself. The difference between you and anyone else is the direct correlation of time played to gear potency.
The thing that made Diablo 2 great and to a lesser extent path of exile, is that you could play forever and never find the pieces you wanted. But you could/can trade the pieces you find to buy the things you want.
Didn't Diablo 3 remove trading? Didn't they make drops class specific? It may have changed, but the fact that they were ever implemented in the first place is evidence that they have no idea what "it" is (it being what made the genre great).
>>344078364
>Didn't Diablo 3 remove trading?
As I recall, they did for any reasonable person's definition.
Last I knew, there was a system in place where you could trade an item with someone who was in the game when it dropped for up to two hours or some nonsense.
At this point it's a single player/console Couch co-op game that also exists on PCs as an always online game for Anti-piracy purposes.
>>344078364
This.
>>344064484
>Your average properly geared character will hit in the millions.
Is that it?
>>344077986
Maybe your hard drive?
Path of Exile scratched the itch that at-release Diablo 3 didn't meet.
D3 loot 2.0 had a lot of good improvements. Late game entertaining enough for me to spend 60 hours on a character.
Grim Dawn is pretty fun.
>>344061661
>>344061661
Grim Dawn was surprisingly good.
>>344061661
>ARPG
You mean hack 'n slash, right?
Probably Icewind Dale.
Did you guys never played sacred or dungeon siege 2?
>>344081363
No the series used to have RPG elements like stat growth and character building.
>>344081664
Played dungeon siege. It was interesting and fun. A merge of bg and Diablo. Online was a completely unregulated mess though
Dead genre
D3 sucked dick
Grim Dawn has really boring combat and shit items
Torchlight also has really dull combat
>>344081671
Not him but that's not what RPG elements are. Roleplaying means defining a character and his personnality though different actions and choices
>>344082579
Rpg game is not a "role" playing, dumbfuck.
>>344083240
>Roleplaying games aren't roleplay games dumbfuck
Spotted the weeb or underage.
>>344083240
>roleplaying games aren't roleplaying
>>344082579
the role you play means you can pick classes and playing style, be a rogue of different kinds, warrior, mage and so on, which is present in Diablo
>>344083884
Okay let's be honest here, how young are you?
>>344084149
I'm not that other anon. Respond to my argument first here >>344083884
>>344083768
>>344083647
Gameplay is way more important in a rpg. You sound like the fat chick writer for mass effect who complaint about too much gameplay and she preferred just a story mode. Yep, pure "role" play.
>>344063417
I really hope we get a torchlight 3. T1 was great, and T2 managed to improve in a few ways but fuck up in others.
It used the same fucking character models but just different posture for the classes. What happened to different models for each class?
Most skills/spells felt weightless, and your character constantly ran making the game feel too flighty.
And your pet always seemed to take too much fucking damage and run away. Rarely happened in the first for me.
>>344062472
Don't forget couch co-op
This and the first one are great, highly reccomend.
>>344084331
>muh one or the other and not both
kill yourself
>>344084479
Forget pic.
>>344084270
It's not an argument bud, it's a false statement from someone who've never actually played an rpg and clearly lack experience. Now go play Baldur's Gate 2, Torment, Pillars of Eternity etc and come back later.
>>344084331
Completely irrelevant.
>>344082579
My favorite rpg is Fable.
>>344084331
>>344084597
He's right.
>>344084743
If we go by "roleplaying = personalities" then Mass Effect 2 is more of a RPG than Diablo and games light on story like Legend of Grimrock. Or maybe we could even add games like The Walking Dead since you do have personality choices there, more than in many games considered RPGs.
>>344084415
torchlight is the shittiest fisher price diablo clone I ever played
>diablow
>path of dogshit
>grim dawn aka reskinned titan quest
The genre has reached a dead end. I wish we could go back to the more atmospheric, adventure/RPG type of game that knows how to restrain itself better like Diablo 1.
>>344061661
D1 > D2
>>344085382
Spoken like a true clueless nostalgia fag
Diablo 1 was fine for it's time, but it's literally boring. If you actually want to play it today you have autism. Also there was nothing particularly atmospheric or adventury about it. I was just really barebonesand shittier version of later games.
>>344085707
Holy shit you're retarded. I'm saying developers should use D1 as a base direction to develop the genre further, instead of D2 and later derivatives.
I wouldn't be complaining about no new games using the similar design paradigms as D1, if I just wanted to play D1.
>>344085707
Fuck you Diablo 1 and 2 are both great.
I bet you haven't even played Diablo HD nigger.
>>344086669
Do you know if there's a version without the gameplay changes? Thanks
>>344085180
>more than in many games considered RPGs.
That's not true though. But walking dead, just like Diablo, only take some specific and limited tropes that define a RPG and build an entire game upon it. Which turns them into their own genre and not actual RPGs.
>>344085382
>knows how to restrain itself better like Diablo 1.
That's a very nice way to describe low budget, outdated and limited.
>>344086669
I wanted to die inside everytime I had to slowly walk through Tristram at the pace of an handicaped snail.
>>344086615
so diablo 1 sucks, but people should use it as a baseline?
nice thinking champ
>>344064053
>grindier than the grindest grind
>cant hate it because the menu sounds are the best in any game ever
>>344087005
Well good for you faggot. The mod lets you increase your walkspeed by percentages.
>>344086669
You right about that, I'm not a retarded faggot that shrinks old game sprites to ant size.
>>344087101
I'm totally going to reinstall Diablo 1 then!
>>344086849
Since we're talking old games, would you also say Wizardry series games are not a RPGs because you don't have personality choices?
also yes, ME2 eclipses games in personality choices, like the ones I mentioned. Is Mass Effect 2 more of a RPG than Legend of Grimrock 2?
>>344062927
>It's an endless boring grindfest with no goal.
Hitting high grift levels.
>>344066465
You actually get to break your level 5 unique now and get their level 70 powers as passives.
>>344086849
>That's a very nice way to describe low budget, outdated and limited.
It's a nice way to say that it doesn't have an insane exponential powercreep where every numerical value shoots into outer space during the course of the game and items that don't roll the absolute perfect affixes aren't trash. Neither does it have challenge almost entirely consisting of random mobs hitting the player for 90% of their max hp, the only way retarded devs can balance the game for autistic skinner box junkies with logout macros.
>>344087683
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry#Development
>Wizardry began as a simple dungeon crawl by Andrew C. Greenberg and Robert Woodhead
>also yes, ME2 eclipses games in personality choices
Not just ME2, you can do some pretty neat things in kotor2 or bg2 or nwn2/motb and plenty other rpgs really
>Is Mass Effect 2 more of a RPG than Legend of Grimrock 2?
It's a dungeon crawler, another of the many derivated genres of the rpg
165 posts about d3 and no one says ros or even the word reaper?
D3 launch and d3 + expansion of pc are completely different animals.
d3 launch is shit, d3:ros is hands down the best ARPG available right now any anyone who doesn't think so is a salty grapes motherfucker who cannot pay to play.
>>344062390
lol
>>344062917
>Grim Dawn
YUP
>>344088262
Dungeon crawlers are RPGs. Do you think only Bioware/Obsidian make RPGs?
>>344088140
Didn't know everyone was forced to play D2 like a minmaxer running bots
>>344088574
We should come up with some kind of term to define those guys who come up in a conversation without reading the previous posts.
>>344088140
another tard who doesn't know what power creep means
>>344088334
This entire thread is about explaining why it's shit. RoS didn't change the fundamental problems with this game, in fact it added to them.
>/v/ suddenly hates Deeblo Two
What happened?
http://archive.is/N5ydG
>>344091485
he should get those moles checked out for skin cancer
