0% PICK RATE
0 FUCKING %.
duh he sucks
Why is Junkrat so rarely picked?
He seems great.
> overused
This isnt pokemon what is wrong that support classes get used?
He's not good in a competitive environment. His lack of mobility and low health means he's easily going to be rushed down by people who focus on him. While his 50% damage increase is very useful, it's never going to last because people will just kill him dead since he has to maintain line of sight.
>>343675653
He's like a Pharah who dies to everything and his ult can be easily shot down if people try to shoot it.
>Using Smogon tiers
Fuck off.
>>343675653
Not that good outside of defense in pro.
>>343675896
Its not a tier list its a pro tournament pick rate statistic.
In 900 games he was used 0 times.
>no mobility
>health as low as tracer
>Ult so bad it cannot stop a reaper
>healing requires line of sight and has travel time, even then can only heal one and inefficently to mercy.
>attacks have slow travel time
>discord, the only reasin to use him, gets punished by one of the most used tanks in the game i.e. reinhardt.
Gee i wonder why.
WHOLE
HOG
I thought McCree was a top pick in """"""""pro"""""""""" games
>>343676740
He is only picked by some super autistic mcree mains after the nerf. Soldier 76 replaced him.
>>343676150
That's exactly how smogon's tiers are divided you idiot. They are automatically sorted by competitive pick rate
>>343675805
the issue is they are overused relative to symmetra and zenyatta
>>343676559
His ult is pretty badly designed. It's fucked up to make the squishiest character in the game NEED to stand in the middle of combat with a bright ass target on his for it to be effective.
>>343676740
He got nerfed. Before the nerf he would have been in 100% bracket.
When will they fix team tips?
>no support
>they pick symmetra
>no sniper
>they pick hanzo
>no tank
>they pick D.VA
>no builder
>they pick symmetra
Just remove hanzo and symmetra from the game already
>>343676927
>smogon's tiers
>pokemon
Yeah, what should I expect from a kid who hasn't even taking a credential statistics course in university.
>>343676740
Reaper and 76 took his job (or more like McCree stopped taking their jobs) after the nerf.
>>343675653
Ult can be heard coming a mile away, almost the same DPS as pharah, terrible mobility compared to pharah
>>343676961
And the benefit from doing that is so fucking minimal
People can still get headshot and die during his ult, Zen himself can still be shoved away from his team, or his teammates can be shoved away from him and killed
It's probably the second worst ult in the game after D.va's.
>Greater or equal to 100%
>Greater
>100%
>>343677568
greater than 100% means more than 1 on the same team which was common before the nerf
>>343677568
Greater than 100% means more than one on the team
>>343675490
So smogon is doing Overwatch, now?
>>343677470
>It's probably the second worst ult in the game after D.va's.
At lest you can use D.va's ult to prevent overtime or clear out a tob nest.
>>343677568
Double Lucio is a thing on KotH.
>>343676932
The game is designed around ALWAYS having at least one support, as it stands now Mercy and Lucio are the only two remotely useful supports, makes sense that they get picked that much.
Zenyatta was nerfed hard in the beta and never fixed, Symmetra is more of a defense character and has no healing capability.
>>343678330
No fucking shit, captain obvious. What are you arguing?
>>343678330
what if they buffed symmetra's turrets by letting her toggle them between a damage beam and a healing beam
She could turn a control point into a fucking fortress
>>343675653
In a 1-1 he gets beat by the entire cast.
>>343675490
He should be able to give 2 orbs of each kind to enemies/mates.
Would make him a lot more dangerous and viable imo.
>>343678473
That they are not "overused", they are used exactly as much as they should be. Zen is broken and Symmetra isn't even the same role.
>That hard drop off on McCree post nerf
kek
>>343678735
unless youre point blank in a hallway that he just happens to fire first
>>343678651
That sounds fun as hell, make it happen.
>>343678651
The idea of a healing station based support would probably not work, it would either be insanely overpowered or never used because the heal would lack mobility. Healers need to switch targets quickly and there are a lot of abilities in the game that would push heroes off a healing pad/out of range of healing turrets.
Ideally the game needs more pure healers like Mercy that can be useful defensively. What makes Mercy such a well designed character is that she has a counterplay ult that can be used at a nice rate throughout the game. This works great on defense as you have to counter multiple teamfights in order to win the game, offensively you technically only have to win 1 fight to win a point and a push hero like Lucio works wonderfully.
>>343676740
got nerfed.
he used to be high dps that had more health than he should.
now his dps is shit.
The problem Symmetra has is that as soon as the enemy advances, her turrets and teleporter are useless. So she relies on completely shutting out the enemy team. Which if you're doing that, you've already won without needing her.
She needs a new kit entirely desu, or at least replace her ultimate with something that's useful when you're behind. Her shield orb should be given to Zenyatta and replaced with something to help her fight.
So will he get buffed? He feels pretty balanced to me
>>343679995
Just shorten the cooldown on her turrets.
>>343680356
this tbhfam
>>343680218
Yes Jeff said they are planning something
>>343680467
Anything concrete or really just "something"? I guess a movement buff/skill would be nice on him
>>343680569
notjing concrete
>>343679995
her teleporter can make or break a match easily, but her turrets can be killed through walls and her range is so fuck awful
you often can just double up on supports like lucio and mercy and it would likely go smoother. she really doesn't fit into the support role too well.
>>343680218
He should be able to put 4 healing orbs and 4 discord orbs on the team at once
Every active orb reduces ammo count by 2, so if 8 orbs are active he can only shoot 4 orbs before reloading and cannot full charge his blast.
>>343680925
his right click is shit anyways. remake his right click into something defensive
>>343681062
right click for shield orbs, give symettra a dispenser healing station instead of shielding
>>343675490
What do you expect. It's just a bucket of bolts.
>>343680925
>all his orbs can now heal people
>each orb heals 30hp/s
>12 orb heals 360hp/s
>reinhardt around with 24 orbs axing people
>>343681062
maybe right click fires 20hp heal pellets instead?
>>343680925
shooting a discorded target grants health
harmony orb gains a healing aura
Ahh people are finally finding the Blizzard balance.
Enjoy lads.
>>343680218
>He feels pretty balanced to me
That's do to your opponents being shit.
>>343675653
He's chokepoint spammer: the character.
>>343675490
Hes the shittiest character on the game.
Him, d.va and pharah really need a buff
>>343680218
The deal is, his playstyle devolves into "killing opponents faster" with the Discord Orbs
It was a high risk high reward that ends up unfun for the opposing team if the Zen and team are good
Thus he had to be fragile due to the snowbally nature of his playstyle
>>343684561
>pharah
>buff
>With the usage she's getting now
Nahhh.
>>343684561
>pharah needs a buff
she's literally a goddess right now in pro and high level games, especially if she gets pocketed by a mercy
Zen is one of my favorite characters so I'm happy to know that he will get buffed soon.
Wait a minute they're literally called heroes? Lol
>>343684972
No, they're Overwatchers.
>McCree went from being the best Assault Hero to the worst
>>343677470
>D.vas
>Bad
You put that fuck on the cart and you have a free push
>don't even think Zen needs a buff
>he's going to get one anyways
Thanks Blizzard! Now I can stomp people even harder.
>>343675490
Unreliable, like Hanzo. Also ults is easily denied. Pro teams cannot allow either of those in a serious tournament.
>>343685257
>Shitter thinks he's relevant for stopping shitier shiters.
nice game you got there, blizzard
>McCree's legs are now broken
YES.
>>343676150
>In 900 games he was used 0 times.
The fuck are you talking about. This is from Alienware Monthly Melee June
>>343685698
>>343675653
Misclicked
>>343685791
I see you're one of the people I've killed ;)
>>343685791
>this having any relevance on sub 70 level
>Tier list
>In a casual class-based shooter
Well, thanks compfags. Once the tier lists start getting flung around and everybody talks about what pro shitters are doing, it starts to kill a game. Suddenly everybody's either a tier whore or they're not playing the game right or being a detriment because they won't follow the meta.
Fucking competitive retards are cancer. Wish people would just play for the fun of playing.
>>343686753
That's what quick mode is for. Just got out of a match versus 6 Hanzos with people playing Mei and Zenyatta whenever they want. All the autism has moved to competitive mode.
Mercy's damage boost >>> orb of discord
WHERE
ARE
THE
WIN
RATE
CHARTS
>>343687236
Lmao, no.
>>343687236
Yes, damage boosting one person is better than the whole team.
Good job.
>>343675490
This is wrong though, he was picked this weekend in GOSU. It was Grand Finals even.
Who the fuck made this?
>nerf Mccree
>now he's basically worse than other picks
Nice
>>343687524
>6/20 - 6/26
>>343687745
I read that as 20 - 6, thinking it was June 20th through July 6th for some reason.
>>343680569
He said they were waiting to see how the McCree/Widow nerfs affected him. Looking at the attention this 0% pick rate has gotten, they're definitely planning on buffing him.
The problem is that it's going to be difficult to figure out a way to properly buff him. With McCree it was easy, Fan the Hammer was the main issue so they reduced the damage of it, easy. With Zenyatta, design wise he's a bit of a mess. His lack of mobility and health means that you have to play safely at a distance, yet his ultimate requires you to be in the front lines. His right click requires you to hide around corners and then surprise enemies for it to be of use, but if you do that you'll just lose sight of them and drop the discord. And then there's the fact that he's supposed to be a Support/DPS hybrid, which is fine, until you factor in that S76 can output more damage and arguably has an easier time healing his team (as well as himself). Fixing Zenyatta requires a lot more than just fiddling with a few damage values so I wouldn't expect to see a change anytime soon.
McCree scrubs evolved into Roadhog scrubs
>I CAN'T AIM, I MUST HAVE STUN/HOOKS TO BE GOOD. I SUCK MASSIVE COCKS
Wait until they nerf Roadhog next. Then they won't have a crutch anymore.
>>343675490
>Uber
>Heroes picked in 100% or more of sides
What?
>>343675490
>Buff HP to 200, 150 shield
>orbs become semi-permenant, both orbs removed when Zen dies and Discord orb gets removed if the player affected gets healed for 75 damage (a small health pack, 2 seconds of Mercy healing)
>nerf harmony orb heal to 20HP/sec
>nerf discord orb damage boost to 30%, same as mercy's
>allies with a harmony orb heal 20% percent of damage done to an enemy with a discord orb (heal is calculated based on discord's damage boost, but NOT mercy's)
>>343679850
his dps isnt shit its just that he has to actually aim now, before e+m2 was an instant kill reliably on basically anyone in the entire game so a free inescapable kill is going to be picked over a kill that requires skill
>>343688430
Used to be when tournaments didn't enforce the 1 hero limit that people would pick multiple heroes per team thus resulting in over 100%
>>343688256
Increase his Ult gain rate
>>343688430
2 PICKS YOU RETARD
READ THE THREAD
>>343688525
this would make bastion invincible
>>343688259
>longer hook cooldown
>less scrap in each shot, more concentrated spread
>rmb uses 2 ammo per shot, more scrap per shot, wider spread
>>343675490
What happened with genji? I remember people were shitting on him when the game came out
>>343687430
>>343687436
>A consistent buff not better than a inconsistent debuff that can be taken off.
Look at these low level shitters.
>>343688976
The implication was that you aren't playing with retards and they actually kill the person with the orb on them.
>>343688976
Are you placing orbs on tracer or something? Mercy will be targeted just as much, if not more than Zenyatta
>OW competition going on right now
>double winston, double tracer, double lucio
tf2 unironically has more variety
>>343688947
Genji is good if you know what you're doing, 90% of people that pick him don't
>>343688843
Bastion is just a stationary target. Unless he's already got people surrounding him, he's gonna get shit on no matter what. Even with extra heals he's easy to counter. That and he'd have to have the Zen with him at all times to keep discording enemies.
>>343686753
It's not a tier list.
It's a usage list, showing how often the characters are used. It's purely about raw statistics.
Congrats on being that moron who complains about something without even reading it. Here's something you should read:Stop complaining about fucking everything. Even if it was a tier list that wouldn't impact you, you whiny cunt.
>>343689460
Just the highly used tier has more variety than tf2 comp. Not to mention Overwatch doesn't things like weapon bans
>>343688256
>200 hp, 100 shield, 50 armor.
>Harmony now heals target for 20 hps, and surrounding allies within 10m for 10 hps
>When an enemy affected by orb of discord is killed, zenyatta pulses a 10m 50hp heal
He should be the mixture of Lucio's AoE and Mercy's damage boost, all while adding dps. Drawback is obviously no way to prevent/recover from large amounts of burst damage that would just kill players outright.
>>343676927
>all statistical breakdowns come from my autistic pokemon site
>>>/vp/
>>343679608
you could make them generate passive heal auras that don't stack
maybe a slightly weaker version of lucio's heal aura
it'd make it so you could even help heal up flankers that aren't near you and it would give you a reason to not pile them together in single rooms.
>>343679850
>could steamroll anyone, including tanks before nerf
>can steamroll almost anyone but tanks
CHOTTO MATE
>>343689854
Assmad compfag detected.
I hope you know tier lists in general are constructed around who the pros use and how often they win with x character. Tier lists are based on those statistics, champ.
Congrats on being that moron who bases his entire counterargument on pedantry.
The only reason I haven't bought this game yet is because I've heard D.Va is bad. She's literally the perfect waifu. If she want in the game then maybe, but for someone as perfect as her to be in the game and be garbage... I couldn't take that.
>>343691304
Good to hear, this is a game you're not supposed to "main" someone in.
>Zen is so irrelevant that the fat pig man can run wild.
Welcome to the apocalypse.
This game has the fatal flaw of having low player counts and incredibly high impact kills yet the time to kill something is basically the same as CS or COD.
There's numerous instant kills, guaranteed kill combos, along with damage outputs so high you can be killed before you even understand you're being attacked.
This is why the respawn timers are so low, the game ceases to function otherwise but then this leads to another issue with the gameplay that the natural course of people playing it leads to the better team constantly being able to take favorable engagements as enemies stream in one at a time if they were previously picked off one by one. This leads to an endless cycle of dying teammates without a coordinated push unless you're with players that understand this phenomenon and actually wait and "reset" intentionally.
If damage outputs and healing were halved the game would instantly be near perfect.
>>343675490
could you please take this shit to /vg/
This is League of Legends all over again
>>343689460
Just use Reaper you faggot
If they are running away and taking podshots at you then get your fucking healer on site and defend him
Also
>Control on Illios
>Entire team is a premade i got matched against before
>All of them have stars
>No one on my team is past 50
What the fuck, if you are going to match me against a premade give me some teammates who don't blow dick
>can harmony orb himself
>if a hit would kill your hamony orb target, the orb is destroyed and they're left with 1 hp
There, zen is 10x better
>>343691923
>the team with better co-ordination wins
>this is bad
ok
>>343692090
Wouldn't that make him invincible to Pharas and Hanzos?
>>343688596
then why wouldnt i just play as s76 if i wanted to left click especially considering he out dpses mccree at mid and long range even with headshots
>>343691304
if it keeps players like you out maybe she should stay bad.
>b-b-b-b-but killing tanks (and vaporizing the rest of the cast) was McCree's "niche"!
>>343691304
D.va isn't bad. She's average at worst. It's just that Winston for the most part does her job (hit and run harassment, targeting high-value low-health targets) better. Her damage potential is actually pretty high (162 damage per second across seven shots, not including headshots) but she has to be within 8m of an enemy to deal such damage and her big fucking critical hitpoint is right in the enemy's face.
Her ideal playstyle is to Boost in right up on an enemy's face and shotgun them to death, cause some chaos and boost back out six seconds later. Either she flies in with her Defense Matrix up to block interception fire, or if she can get in safely, use the Matrix while in the thick of it, drawing attention and absorbing fire, biding time for her boost to cooldown. If she overextends and her mech goes down, she can still fight and be a nuisance.
I think the biggest issue with D.va not being as good as she should be is that when she starts firing, her movement speed is reduced to almost nothing, making her a very big stationary target. Given that her shotgun is one of the weaker ones in the game (Reaper and Roadhog's shotguns are among the most powerful weapons in the game if they get up close which is honestly much easier for them to do thanks to their abilities than what D.va can do with her own). Letting her be more mobile while firing may be the only thing she really needs.
>>343692213
Of course it is, do you think people actually communicate in online games?
You make your game naturally lead to cooperation. A good way to do that is increase the time needed to kill a player so a fight lasts longer. A longer fight gets more people involved and allows respawning players to catch up with their team.
If deaths are more important timer-wise, people treat dead teammates with a bit more pertinence and are more likely to fall back and naturally coordinate by waiting for their teammates to be back up.
Having better coordination can also be detrimental to players, as landing a full team wiping ability means your enemies are naturally going to be grouped as 6 for the next engagement rather than streaming in 1 by 1.
The low respawn timers also lead to the overtime issue being as big as it is. People are constantly streaming onto the point 1 by 1 extending the timer and dying.
>>343692581
They can one hit him now so that's ok
Gives him a second to retreat and not just die as soon as he leaves spawn, while still being squishy enough to have to be careful in fights
>That one pro team that tried to use Zenyatta in a push this week and had to switch him out instantly after what could only be described as a spectacular disaster.
Can't say they didn't try.
>>343675653
His hard counters (Pharah and Soldier) are really popular picks and he also has a natural disadvantage to other actual offensive characters. It's also hard for him to deal with the various tanks for a variety of reasons.
>>343693023
>zen
>in attack
That's possibly the worst idea since playing genji
>>343693023
>Zenyatta on attack
Doomed to fail.
The only way to survive as Zenyatta is to be in a position where you don't need to move much. That pretty much means he's only good for defense.
serious question here:
why does every game dev fucking blow dick at balancing?
I've never seen a game community that didn't have large complaints about balancing.
is it really that fucking hard to do? do devs not have thousands of dollars to spend on getting their shit right?
Why do people post these lists that only have data taken from a single tournament. Like that has any relevance in early meta.
>>343693835
Every community will argue about balancing because every community will have people who are bad at the game, and it's easier to blame something rather than yourself.
The only way to have a game that's perfectly balanced would be to have every character play the same and for every map to be symmetrical.
>>343688525
>>allies with a harmony orb heal 20% percent of damage done to an enemy with a discord orb (heal is calculated based on discord's damage boost, but NOT mercy's)
This is actually a really cool and thematic idea, and would help set Zenyatta apart more from the other healers. You should post this on the forums or something.
>>343693835
Rock paper scissors is balanced, but it's boring as fuck
Balance clashes with the ideas that make the game interesting, so if we add something that makes the game fun, like say, how everyone likes playing Tracer and dashing around, we need to balance it out with something else, and out of that thing we also make something fun and cool.
And so more ideas get added and more balance is needed, and in the end the game ends up having a few rough patches lick McCree was before nerf or how Double Winston is destrying in pubbies now.
>>343693835
>why does every game dev fucking blow dick at balancing?
have you ever tried to keep a game perfectly balanced anon i doubt it
>>343693835
A game with a bunch of different characters can never be truly balanced if you want the characters to be meaningfully different.
However, internet communities also have no compunction about being absolute shitheads in the name of getting the game to look the way they want it to by using insanely hyperbolic language, so your perception of "large complaints" has a bit to do with that as well.
>>343694038
Its more or less the same with the last 2 tournaments with the exception of the power vacuum McCree's nerf created and who went up in usage to fill it.
>>343693835
Balance issues may not always be obvious if you don't have a lot of time invested into a game, IE something that may not be used very much in a pub may be absurdly broken in comp for a variety of reasons. Developers obviously aren't going to have several thousand hours of playing the game like competitive players do and have to rely on community feedback. However that has its own problems because comp players rarely use low tier characters or non meta strats so they aren't a reliable source of information for anything outside of a competitive environment and the same holds true for pub players. Ideally you should listen to feedback from both sides and try to find middle ground but I've yet to see a developer do this.
>>343695091
Oh yeah also there's no way to really tell how a stat change is going to affect the game without thoroughly testing it first and there's also other things that can't be quantitatively measured like how "fun" a certain mechanic or weapon is. The latter is probably one of the worst problems with overwatch.
>>343675653
Pro play is all about 6v6 team fights. He's got good damage output but Pharah's splash damage triggers instantly and she has better mobility. Using the mine and trap in a 1v1 is helpful but in a hectic team fight you won't get much mileage out of them since you'll constantly be wanting for them during recharge since his rate of fire and reload speed aren't great.
>>343693835
Because when you get to the core of all of this shit
balance is subjective.
Some people could say that zenyatta is fucking op and if enough people beleive it then it might just be accepted like that.
The devs are people too and even spending 5 days a week on the thing they wont be able to please everyone with balance issues
>>343687624
He's a 1v1 character when competitive play is all about full team fights.
>>343675653
because e-sports gut literally everything that is fun about videogames and forces you to min max shit.
>>343688596
He has to be point blank to reliably one shot most characters with FtH after flashbang. Characters like Reaper and other McCrees routinely survive and fuck him up before he can get the other FtH off now.
>>343675490
Zenyatta's in a place where a small buff/nerf can either make the character broken or useless. During the Closed Beta, he was broken, as he could just latch a harmony orb on a reaper/genji and walk away and the reaper/genji would never die, his ultimate charged faster and his discord orb shreaded faster, as well as having 200HP.
Yeah, they overnerfed him but i think a small buff would be since the character is floating, she couldn't trigger things such as widow's spider mine (unless its on a wall) or junkrat's bear trap. for example.
Then do something else like make his health, armor instead of natural health, since he's a robot and everything.
>D.va and Zenyatta are going to get buffed
Now we wait for Roadhog nerf and the game is perfect
>>343675490
Did they really just rip off the tier names from fucking Pokemon? Lmao
Kek, McCree is a fucking joke on PS4 now. Since it's much more difficult to be precise with a controller pretty much every character he could counter totally shits on him now. It's impossible to take down a decent Pharah with him anymore.
>>343693835
Because devs tend to listen to reddit
and reddit sucks shit at video games. So put 2 and 2 together
>>343680218
he needs to be able to discord reinhart through shield
have discord also increase the damage taken by the shield, i'm not sure if it already does that
>>343698723
It's not being incapable of getting off two Fans, it's that even with hitting all your shots with FtH, the stun wears off before the bullets do enough damage to kill Genji and Reaper, before they can use their escape skills (Deflect and Wraithform)
>>343701325
/v/ isn't much better.
I see people here all the time with less than <100 hours in a game act like they're an authority on it.
>>343692759
Finally, someone else gets it.
Too bad it will be brushed over. What's your opinion on the memester players who ignore the tips at loadout and choose heroes detrimental to the whole time, like insta-pick Hanzos for example. Often I see another phenomenon where someone causes a domino effect of choosing a class, and then, for shits and giggles, someone else chooses the same thing as a joke, and then before you know it you have 6 of whatever class.
>>343677654
not the same team, the same game meaning both teams picked them.
>increase his HP by 20-50
>make his orbs last longer
and that's it basically
I quite like the idea of Zenyatta being a high risk/high reward glass cannon, so rather than increase his survivability, I was thinking maybe make his orb of discord increase damage by 66%, and make his basic attacks do maybe 10 damage more.
>>343702171
No because glass cannons are only good if you can avoid taking damage. Zen can't.
>>343675490
>worst character
>best design
>>343702282
This
OW is filled with flanking heroes too who can near effortlessly gib him even if he's trying to hide in the back
>>343685172
Blizzard way should be pure incompetence
>>343685172
Fuck McCree and fuck you for liking him
>>343703507
He's the most balanced character in the game.
>>343704096
Yes, after the nerf
Fuck everyone who says he needs a buff
>>343704320
he's total shit and outclassed by soldier in every way now
>>343675490
I can't wait until some big streamer dominates as someone random like Mei, and then we see them skyrocket it competitive usage. Then /v/ will cry about them being overpowered
>>343704373
Not in close quarters 1v1.
He's outclassed by Reaper there.
I love Pharah, but I sense a nerf coming very very soon for her.
>>343704424
Seagull's pretty prominent, uses Mei all the time, but never whips her out in pro play.
>>343704701
Not for consilefags, where you need the fingers of a pianist to aim properly.
>>343704560
even close quarters 1v1, soldier has a biotic field to shit out, and a 120 damage rocket. you have to actually be completely point blank for soldier to be worse than mcree.
reaper outclasses them both in close quarters, that's a given, he's supposed to.
>>343685172
>the worst
No, that's still Zenyatta.
McCree is just unused because he's no longer a universal powerhouse. As a hybrid mid-range sharpshooter and a point blank squishy killer, he's redundant. 76 and Reaper are more specialized in those fields respectively with better survivability, so they have taken his place. And Roadhog is effectively a beefier version of McCree with far greater range thanks to his 20m hook.
>>343675490
>76
>Not OU
Is this a joke?
A life orb/choice band set is able to work even against most of the ubers
So how do you deal with 4+ Torbjorn's on King's Row?
>>343678330
>>343678651
IMO Symmetra could be buffed pretty easily to make her competitive but not overpowered (and more useful on attack)
E - Shield ability
>Shield gives the standard +25 shield, but also converts 25 of the heroes normal health into shield as well. Essentially, shield would subtract 25 health and add 50 shield. Note: HEALTH only, not armor.
Gun:
>Right click/charge up uses slightly less ammo - but a "forced release" (i.e. charging too long) uses slightly more ammo
>Left click remains as is
Sentry:
>Now immune to splash damage - must be a direct hit. Slightly larger hitbox.
OR
>Can store up to 4 charges instead of 3
Teleport/Ultimate:
>Now has 10 charges instead of 6
OR
>Symmetra can build up to 50% ultimate charge while the teleport is still active
These changes would make her a more useful support when defending, and not "the least useful character ever" when attacking
>>343705857
4 phara's
Hanzo is such a shitty character
>>343685172
We need McCree back
ever since they buried him every game has been full of Tracers, Genji's and Zayras all waltzing around like their shit don't stink
>>343706265
Hanzo mains are such shitty people
Remember, the goal of balance is to achieve even pickrate for all heroes
>>343706359
well i wouldnt say we need old mccree just a mccree that can reliable fuck up tracer, genji, and any other flankers
>>343692746
This
They should severely limit the movement speed decrease (or remove it entirely) and/or give her a secondary fire for longer range - something like Mercy's pistol fire or Soldier's rockets, albeit something weaker, just so she can actually do something at longer range rather than be literally useless
>>343705857
Hope at least one other player on your team isn't a retard and is willing to organize with you, the two of you forming a Reinhardt + Pharah duo to snipe each Toblerone turret.
Alternatively going solo, do the expected corner-peeking and pick off each turret with a couple Pharah rockets, hoping that the other two players on the 4+ Torb team aren't opposing Pharahs, Snipers or the like suppressing you from doing so.
Take out "muh tourette" and the one each Torb is likely to drop immediately afterwards, move on to the next. Pray the rest of your team takes advantage of the openings you're making and don't charge in like idiots.
>>343706464
Anyone who mains any class rigidly and won't switch is a shitty person, with the exception of maybe Soldier 76 since he can fit into any situation. I'd argue possibly Lucio and Zarya too.
I played with a level 200+ the other day who was a Bastion main. He refused to switch off Bastion on KOTH and we lost.He was also using a controller on PC.
>>343693835
Honestly one of the most balanced games ever was TF2 (back before every class has a billion fucking weapons each)
Day of Defeat was also pretty well balanced, but it was never as popular as it deserved to be
>>343706504
Not really. Reinhardt was clearly designed to be one of the most prominently used heroes more universally handy than one like Symmetra who's far more situational.
>>343706718
>Bastion with controller
>>343706593
Old McCree was a mistake but this new McCree is just useless, and as a result a lot of the people he was supposed to keep in check just sorta run wild.
Just change FtH back to what it used to be and add long CD to it. Yes this means that McCree does high damage to tanks again but he can't instantly delete them anymore, and honestly we NEED another hero besides Reaper that actually can deal good damage to Tanks.
>>343707013
>hit 3 times
>loses 160hp
Bastion needs to be fucking nerfed
>>343707158
new McCree is still far better than Soldier for longer range fighting - he can kill Pharah faster and his flash/fan/roll/fan is still more than enough for 1v1'ing anything other than a full-hp tank. Dead-eye is also a guaranteed wipe if you can get the drop on the enemy team.
Just because he isn't overpowered anymore doesn't mean he isn't useful.
>>343707158
>Update
He can kill anyone he is supposed to keep in check just as well as he used to be able to.
>>343707459
except soldier can do it just as better as he can and with half the effort too
>>343707158
Personally I think they should change the flashbang to have a longer stun duration to compensate for the damage decrease. Right now it lasts 0.7 seconds. If you fan after getting the flash off, you're only going to get 3-4 shots out before your opponent can begin to move again. The problem is that characters like Tracer, Genji, Reaper, Mei and Zarya all have abilities they can activate once the flash wears off that will counteract your ability to get any more damage in, and two of those abilities will actually use the rest of your fan against you. If the flash lasted for a full second you'd be able to get the full fan in before they can do anything again.
>>343707459
No, he literally can't. Flashbang stuns for .7 seconds, but theres also a .2 second kickback that stops McCree from firing so you can't start FtH until .5 seconds, which means you only fire 3 shots.
45 x 3 + 25 = 160 damage, and that's assuming the first three shots actually hit (which against smaller framed heroes, they wont). This means that anyone with an escape ability (everyone McCree is supposed to kill) can just mash that and get out.
He's fucking useless and you are retarded to think otherwise
>>343707597
Soldiers Biotic Field alone makes him a constantly better pick than Mcree. A true credit to team.
>>343701745
Not that anon,
Hanzo/Genji/Dva "mains" are fucking cancerous and ruin the game.
But, they'll never change.
Hanzo mains are furry edgefags who think they're leet snipers, even worse than widow mains.
Genji mains are edgy weebs who think they're seagull but suck
Dva mains are waifu fags who think Dva is an actual tank and good for anything other than countering widows and turrets.
>>343676740
he went from making every single dps irrelevant to being okay
he's not unplayable but he got fucking destroyed by that nerf
>>343705782
>using Banded 76 when he has 20 more Base SpAtk
>>343707423
76 doesn't experince fall off until 35 feet. McCree starts getting severe falloff at 18 feet.
For reference, Genji's dash goes 15 feet. And after that it scales harsly, to where at 35 feet he only does 35 damage a shot (70 for headshots)
So, you are fucking wrong as shit and 76 is much, much MUCH better at mid to long range so SHUT THE THE FUCK UP
>>343707209
>35 rounds per second, 2100 rounds per minute
>15 damage per shot out to 35 meters
>525 damage per second
Nah, he's totally fine, Anon.
>>343675490
There needs to be more healers to choose from. I love Lucio, but goddamn Zen sucks and my buddy already plays Mercy. We need like 3 more unique healers and toss Symmetra in Defense.
>>343708053
He's not okay, he's shit.
No mobilty, no survivibilty, 200 HP and limited range. McCree was supposed to make up for all of these drawbacks with raw killing power, only now he has less killing power then 76.
If anyone picks McCree in competitive please report them for Harassment, they are trolling you.
That line of sight "fix" right before release on him was retarded. Should have let it last for 10 seconds at least when losing vision.
>>343704885
Can confirm.
Which is why I prefer Junkrat.
>>343708429
10 seconds is too excessive. I'd be ok with 5 seconds at least.
It also might be a bit OP but I think it should also have that 5 second timer upon him dying.
>>343708227
Should at least have a charge/spin up time before he reaches full damage rather than going 100% straight away
>>343678735
even mercy?
>>343708609
He's already shitty he doesn't need a nerf. Fuck he needs a buff if anything.
>>343708658
I've killed a number of Junkrats as Mercy. Her pistol does pretty good damage and he's pretty soft. If his mine isn't up he's not likely going to win.
>>343708531
Actually, while on the topic, I feel there are only a number of characters on console that are actually viable. Torbjorn is obviously one due to his turret, as well as Symmetra. Characters like Junkrat where you don't really need to be precise are heavily preferred, and snipers are damn near useless, which is the main reason why the hitboxes are so big for characters like Hanzo.
>>343708531
Apparently console aiming for Overwatch is fucked even by console standards? Anyone know why?
>>343709540
Laziness.
>>343709540
Well, in Pharah's case, and most other characters, you need incredibly precise aiming with her, or you'll just miss every single shot, even with her splash damage. First and foremost, Overwatch is made as a PC game that's meant to be played with a mouse and keyboard, and a controller simply can't imitate that. Lucio is a good example of this, considering his ability to wall-ride is incredibly tricky to pull off with a controller, even with the highest sensitivity, mainly due to not being able to turn instantly. It makes characters like Torbjorn incredibly difficult to counter due to that lack of precision, and with Symmetra's turrets, you can be dead before you know it.
The fucking competitive mode is fucking ridiculous with the rules about people leaving
>Teammate leaves the game
>My team is now permanently a man down
>If this is early in the game it's a guaranteed loss
>The game allows me to leave without penalty BUT WITH A LOSS
How the fuck is this fair? Because some guy on my team leaves I'm basically guaranteed a loss?
im the only one who think that the ult of tracer is complety shit?
>>343710326
Also, forgot that snipers are damn near impossible to play with a controller, for the reasons listed above about precise aiming.
>>343709540
Well to me there's this odd lag when aiming that really fucks everything up. It's not quite acceleration to the reticule (even though there is some of that too) but it makes things a pain in the ass.
This coupled with some characters having near non-existent hitboxes (pharah/tracer/genji/hanzo/etc) means it can be really hard to do well with hitscan characters or characters like pharah.
>>343710616
This pic bugs me.
it would be a lot better if they drew Widowmaker instead of tracer.
>>343710386
It's ok. It's perfect for getting one high value target like a Mercy or Reinhardt but it's not amazing.
>>343710657
It's just generally hard to aim in this game on console, perhaps it's due to the lack (At least from what I've noticed) of snapping or an auto-aim.
>>343711408
no there is slight auto-aim, you might be able to tell that if a tracer blinks past your reticle it'll twitch towards her slightly.
A game with no auto-aim or snapping is the entire gears of war series (there's a slight amount of "friction" when overlapping a character's model with certain weapons though), and I could aim perfectly in those.
There's definitely something weird going on, that's for sure.
>>343675490
All of the other rarely used heroes shine in pubs and lower skill games.
But McCree.
The common "wisdom" spouted by shitters since his nerf was "just shoot get headshots lol"
Well if the fucking pros in this game still aren't getting enough headshots for him to be good, how exactly are other players?
Can we all dispense with the fucking fiction that the McCree nerf put him in an appropriately balance position?
>>343711737
He really was hit way too hard by the nerf. I've noticed people stacking tanks a lot more, and I have been failing to kill characters like Tracer/Genji/Reaper with flashbang+FtH more often, as well as been getting off scott-free as those characters when a McCree tries to get me.
>>343711693
I wonder if it has something to do with the typical fast pace of the game. Or maybe it's because of the hitboxes or whatever on the weapons themselves? Some characters are easy to aim and shoot with while others definitely do require some level of precision. Pharah and Widowmaker are probably the best examples.
>>343706834
>Balance
>Demoman and Soldier exist
>>343711737
>>343711983
To be fair though, mcree was fucking unstoppable before the nerf. I can't count the amount of times he killed me instantly as a tank
>get stunned
>he fans hammer, rolls, fans hammer again
>dead
No fucking character should be able to stun and kill a tank in literally 4 seconds
Why are Genji and Roadhog suddenly good. I thought they were bad?
>>343712681
McCree can't shut them down anymore. They were always good but he could negate them most of the time. Roadhog is the new meme, and it's really fucking annoying.
>>343712807
Roadhog seems pretty strong on certain maps, like a Widow Maker who can play offensively.
>>343712807
It's funny how once you nerf one character it unintentionally buffs other characters because they have nothing to fear anymore.
>>343712549
The only real balance issues are Pyro and Spy, since they're both about as useful as a bowl of severed dicks in any high skill leveled gamed.
>>343710368
Even if you do win you get reduced xp.
>>343713117
>Playing ranked
>Enemy roadhog is the biggest fucking pain in the ass, hooking people off ledges nonstop
>Our roadhog is a high functioning retard who literally kills himself over and over, jumping over a ledge and trying to drag someone with him
I'd almost rather have a 5 man team than that shit
>>343714442
Idiots who somehow think a one for one trade (I died to kill them) is beneficial most of the time. Maybe if he's hooking a Mercy of the edge but even then just try to kill her normal.
>mfw coin flip
>>343714573
Ranked gets me so fucking heated with retarded teammates.
>Match is getting into over time
>Die, respawn and try getting to the point as fast as I can
>As I'm getting there I fucking see my teammate ahead, right around the fucking corner from the point
>Instead of getting in there and extending the time limit, he's just shooting at them from afar
WHY ARE THESE FUCKERS PLAYING FOR KILLS AND NOT THE OBJECTIVE IN RANKED?
>>343714805
i.e. Defender wins.
>>343714876
>playing ranked
First mistake
>>343714876
Ranked is even worse on console, considering without a headset you can't communicate to your teammates, and have retards pick characters like fucking Hanzo on attack.
>>343714876
Fucking hell I know that pain
>Attacking on Gibralter
>Faggot picks Widow
>People politely suggest he use someone else
>Nah I'm fucking good as Widow, we'll win
>We aren't winning. Not at all
>Tell him to change
>"Look I'm doing way more than any of you faggots"
>Lose
>Match ends, I have three golds
>Ask him how many he got
>"None, fuck you medals don't show how good someone is"
>mfw
>>343715035
I had hopes that maybe people would play a bit more competitively than pubs
>>343714889
Out of about 30 games I've won as Defender maybe twice, but succeeded almost every attacking round.
I prefer Koth just so I don't have to deal with a coinflip.
>>343715231
I know, I play on xbone. I constantly run into leet pro experts who pick Widow maker on attack and never switch
>>343715265
The community is so fucking shit in this game
>Load into match, no one has picked yet
>I feel like playing x character, select them
>After someone picks the same character
>They refuse to switch
>I now either have to choose between having a shitty stacked character team, or changing to someone else
>>343715405
Weird. I've never lost a defense on Anubis for example. Thankfully I'd get people to agree to stagger our defense on the last point, always holding a person or two back so we can continue contesting the point as needed and don't all get wiped in an Ult storm.
Hanamura point A is literally the most retarded thing ever
>>343715795
All of Hanamura is the most retarded thing ever.
>>343715405
I've only had a few coin flips, but defenders have won every single time
>They set up a torb turret or two at a choke point covering the point
>Bastion behind the turrets, only way to get to him is to go through the turrets
>rest of the team is protecting bastion and turrets, because it's literally EZ mode
Especially with how fucking fast torb gets molten core, defenders have a huge advantage
>>343715795
It would be less retarded if those paths before the gate actually lead past the gate, instead there's just one big fucking chokepoint and a tiny hole that's guarded by everything under the sun
>>343716020
But there's a tiny window in the front gate that some people can go through. That's totally a flanking route right?
>>343715795
Anubis Objective A is worse. All it takes is a Bastion/Torbjorn and a Symmetra to completely shut that objective down.
>>343716338
Not even, the first gate has side holes to go into and past that it's much more open especially for people like Pharah and Genji.
>>343716020
>>343716195
Guys if you go left of the gate, mobility characters can literally walk to the back of the point.
>>343716020
It really fucking bugs me at the amount of dead ends in a lot of the maps.
>>343716682
Which is still pretty limited and isn't going to help much against the Toblerone nest they have on the point with Reinhardt.
>>343716536
It really makes you wonder just how balanced these maps really are. Frankly, in my opinion, they should have just made new maps for competitive, one team always has a hard and strong advantage.
>>343717239
>they should have just made new maps for competitive
Oh no, because that's the first step into turning even more into a shitty no-fun-allowed MOBA.
Imbalance is fine because both teams get a crack at the same position.
>>343706464
>playing comp koth hanzo player refuses to change
I am positive every sniper main are mentally challenge
>>343717356
I think one of the main issue with characters like Hanzo and Reaper is that everyone who plays them is obsessed with getting PotG and nothing else. They don't care if they contribute to the team or even do well, but if they can get that one moment of glory it somehow makes up for them being so shit.
>>343717890
They should remove PotG from ranked play.
