So we all agree that pic related requires a small nerf, and that the following characters require a small buff:
>Zenyatta
>D.Va
>McCree
>Mei
Anybody else I'm missing, or is this the definitive list?
>>343615572
I think that Mercy's ult should be stoppable. it's not, which is dumb. If she presses Q, people will get revived, regardless of if you kill her the exact frame she does so.
Lucio's needs him to land to work, and while Zenyatta's is instant, it can be worked around by moving the zenyatta away from the group
>>343615771
I think it should just have its charge rate upped.
Attach to a Pig taking damage, and you'll have it in an instant.
>>343615572
Never talk shit about my waifu again. Mercy is fucking perfect okay?
>>343615953
That's the problem anon, she's too perfect. She has to be given a handicap or everyone else just can't compete.
STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT THE GAME UFKINF AUTISTSMOS AND POST MORE LEWD MERCY
>>343616239
>no (You)
Here's your (You).
>>343615572
No, Lucio needs a nerf, but for some reason he'll never get one
>>343615572
I agree. As annoying as Mei is, she's just not that good. McCree got nerfed a little too hard. I think increasing the speed on fth shots would solve it. The stun is so short that the heroes blizzard specifically said hes made to counter can get away before dying because all six shots didnt go off fast enough
They did say they're buffing D.Va and will look into Zenyatta. I dont know how the could buff Mei without breaking her but hopefully they think of something.
>>343615572
>Mcree needs a buff
No. And honestly I'm fine with Mei being shit tier. She's fucking annoying to play against and I hate having to hear her annoying voice when she's on my team. The less I see of her the better.
I honestly think that if they were to nerf Mercy in any way, then she'll go the way of the dumpster and every team will always just run Lucio instead of always running Mercy. She needs to a lot of changes to keep her still on par with Lucio but less reliant on her Ult.
>>343616751
If her ult charged slightly slower itd be okay. my issue with her is the fact that dje can have that ult every minute if she really wants to, maybe even faster.
>>343616041
She does have a handicap. The moment people see a Mercy they gun for her to ensure she doesn't heal/revive people.
It's like when people see a Bastion, they instantly become top priority for elimination.
Blizzard made the problem of putting healers in an fps, which since TF2 we know completely centralizes the meta around them because theyre fucking broken.
If you nerf them they are either still OP or useless and cannot be truly balanced.
Theres nothing they can do about it now that the game is out, the balance is eternally fucked.
>>343616864
But that's just it. Her ult charging so fast and being so powerful is the only reason people use her. Nerf that and she's relegated to the trash right next to Zenyatta because Lucio heals way better and has stronger utility + extra DPS and meme environmental kills.
Damage boost doesn't do anything significant on any hero that doesn't use an automatic weapon. She has to switch weapons to defend herself. Her mobility is reliant on teammates. Her heals telegraph her position to everyone. She's bad in every way except for her Ult.
>>343615572
Zenyatta and D.va do need a buff, but McCree and fucking Mei? Are you fucking retarded?
>>343617394
Mei needs a buff, she's literally trash.
Maybe not McCree though. He is pretty bad right now though
>>343615771
>Mercy's ult needs to be stoppable
It'd be redundant.
>she is stationary for three seconds in the vicinity of enemies
>>343617459
Mei needs a rework, as she is she will never be good without being horribly broken. Shes a "Shit or OP" type of design
>>343617459
Sounds like you just can't play with those two.
>>343615572
All mercy needs is a delay when her ult is triggered. Instead of it activating the same time you press q. You can literally jihad heal your team
>Mercy rezzes you right as rip-tire goes off and you all instantly die again
That Junkrat got potg too, chat was fun to watch.
>>343615572
Just change the ult, the game revolves around rezzing people which is not fun at all.
I'm also fine with McCree and Mei less viable than others, it leads to a better and more diverse meta.
>>343615771
>Has to dive into front lines to rez downed teammates
>Stands idle for a good 2-3 seconds while animation is active
>No guaranteed survival if opposing team is in position to ambush revived teammates
You could make the argument that being able to rez behind cover is a bit OP but I hardly think Mercy is in need of any kind of nerf.
>>343617786
Mei has some amazing and clever uses, and I think she's totally fine. She's not absolutely worthless, but she's not overpowered either.
>>343618030
>5 guys die
>Mecry pops ult but dies
>Enemy team is still at half health or so
>Think they give a shit about a mercy at that point.
She should be able to get stunned out of it like death blossom and tank configuration. Her rez is is OP in support land. The TF2 community would had shat themselves if the Medic could do what she does, but shes enough boner fuel for everyone so they defend their wiafu.
OP isnt off on the buffs besides McCree. Id replace him with Bastion because they only way that fucker is useful is if you have an entire team dedicated to the idea of keeping it alive, which is stupid. Hell nerf his turret form but give the guy an alt fire in recon or something. An actual tip in game stated that it is smarter to go into turret 1v1 then recon. Half of his skillset is thus useless even by Blizzard tip standards.
>>343615572
I'd be pretty happy to hear Zarya getting a nerf. If you're mildly good, two zaryas are invincible
I have seen people say you cant kill her when she is rezzing, This is wrong, i have been killed several times with it
cutting off the ult voice line as i die with no one getting revived, You can absolutely die during her ult though you
have to see her and get her quick.
>>343617598
Mei's like one of the least picked heros in comp. She's trash.
>>343618636
Fuck, i just woke up and fucked up that paragraph.
>>343615572
Increase casting time
People being revived can be damaged
Healing decreases to 25hp/s from 50hp/s in combat, with a 5 sec cool down
>>343615572
pharah and zarya need a nerf plus the bug change that makes zarya even more op
>>343615572
the rate at which her ult charges needs to be slowed
>>343618875
>all the characters that can be extremely good in hands of a good player should get nerfed
This thread looks like blizz forums with all the crying and the moaning. Just nerf everything and make this game as slow as fucking tf2 and be done with it.
>>343619086
here's your (you)
>>343615572
yeah wow
>>343619197
What was the point of your reply, you fucking mong?
>>343619086
zarya full charge doesnt go away on her right clicks and pharah does more damage then junk rat with being much harder to kill. mercy pocket pharah is where it is truly broken. There is literally a pharah on every team since they nerfed her counters of mcree and widow maker.
>>343616041
no that's dumb
they should make the weaker heroes stronger
mercy is fine as is and it'd be dumb to change anything
>>343619086
This, ask yourself before you give ideas for a nerf if when you get killed by this character or they are supporting the enemy team, do they feel broken, or are they just being played highly skilled opponents. I never thought much of pharah but if you face someone who can predict shots they can carry the entire game, I will never forget the name of one i faced just because of how good they were, Same foes for Zarya, a good player can manage shields, hold points and just harass the enemy.
>>343619268
Pharah's still easily countered by a sniper though.
>>343615572
Nerf Lucio first.
>>343618441
Well first off, the odds of all 5 players dying AND Mercy surviving long enough to pop her ult on all of them are astronomical. You'd be lucky to get off 3 revives before everyone jumped on you once the front line was broken. Plus, it's a tactical error on the enemy team's part to leave her alive for that long without harassing her or just flat out killing her before she would be allowed to Q.
Second, even if a Mercy did happen to be in the perfect spot to revive her entire team, she'd still have to get through every line of defense to do it, and by that point the enemy team should already be in a position to initiate another team fight by the time they all get up, not to mention it's usually important to conserve your ults when that happens because a Mercy usually implies having to fight the same enemy more than once and working with your team to eliminate them accordingly.
Genji needs a nerf. His ult is too powerful.
>huge range
>huge hitboxes
>huge dmg
>duration too long
>>343615771
Had a mercy revive us only to be in prime spot for a bastion to just gun us all down. It's not that great man.
>>343615771
Her charge rate needs to get lowered, and she should be in line of sight of allies to revive. No more reviving through walls if Zenyatta is apparently overpowered if his balls work through walls
>>343619330
snipers are not in the meta and sniper counters are
soldier 76 is the like the only standard counter but she still is abusive to him especially with mecy pocket which you see in any high level game
>>343618774
>>People being revived can be damaged
They already can't move. It's not rare to have a shitty Mercy that revives you in the middle of the enemy team just because she has her ult up.
>>343619268
Pharah can still be killed easy by mcree, soldier and genji.
McCree definitely needs a buff, the nerf was too much and rendered him useless there's no reason to pick him unless you enjoy playing him but that's for faggot not us hardcore competitive pros.
Also, Mei needs a buff? The fuck you saying she has her own niche and fills it will.
How would you buff her? If your IQ is at least in the high double digits you can do great with her.
>>343619380
i kind of agree I am getting so sick of genji mains
>>343615572
Honestly I would be scared to see zenyatta/d.va buffs
They're weak but they're already annoying as fuck
>>343615572
Remake Zenyatta ult. It doesn't fit the hero at all.
You are a long range support who wants to stay as far away from harm as possible with 0 fucking mobility, and then you have an ultimate which is just "lol go hug your team faggot". After the ult expires, you are fucked unless you perform a team wipe, and you cant even place orbs while using your ultimate.
>>343619569
>>343619380
His ult also charges way too fast.
>>343619526
not with mercy pocket
>>343615572
They're not going to nerf mercy just because shitters like you get upset when someone you were fighting gets healed.
Her revive is fine. If someone dies they were in a situation and when they rez they will be in that exact same shit situation again. Learn to time your shit for when the immunity wears off.
Tracer should be louder for the enemy.
Reaper's shotguns should have a shorter drop off range
>>343619662
Kill mercy first then.
>>343615572
>nerfing mercy
>not nerfing lucio
Come on now
Also McCree and mei are literally, undisputably fine
>>343615572
Mei's hatred comes from being an unkillable annoying cunt with freeze, whereas her being shit comes from the fact that she brings very little to the team. The best way to change these is to change her self-freeze into one based off of Winter Wyvern's Cold Embrace.
Cryo Freeze: Can be targeted on allies. Stuns ally for the duration (4s), and heals them for 200hp. They are considered to have Armor for the duration. Longer cooldown (15s or so).
There, Mei is much more useful as a team support and defence, while the Offense characters are no longer crying because she no longer has an absolute deterrent.
>>343619706
mercy is farther away in safety making more of a damage fall off not to mention she has a much skinnier character model and the rest of the enemy team doing their shit
what rating are you to make this judgement?
>>343619483
If those nerfs go through then no one would pick Mercy and everyone would just run Double Lucio again.
Did you guys even play the beta before shitposting?
>>343619761
If you think mccree is fine after the nerf you must also have to hyave someone tie your shoes for you.
I'd say make the Q non-instant, like 1/4 to 1/2 second windup time; it can be interrupted if stunned or killed before it goes off.
>mercy nerf
yes
>D.va buff
yes
>Zenyatta buff
yes
>McCree buff
he's fine as is
>Mei buff
bait
>Play Tracer
>Flank
>Kill their Mercy and the rest of her team doesnt even notice
>Do this over and over and over and over
She's good in pro play because of the coordination but if she gets nerfed because of that you'll probably just never see her outside of tournaments again.
>>343618636
I've killed her BEFORE her voice line came through, before she even started the animation from my perspective. It can't be interrupted.
>>343615572
Mei's trash and probably needs a buff, but I cant think of how to buff her without making her OP.
A rework might be needed here
>>343619828
Then go Tracer and *teleport behind her*
>>343619380
You wot nigga.
He exposes himself completely to make use of the ult. It's a high risk skill, need a high reward.
Plus I love hooking Genjis right when they jump in with their green sword.
>>343619380
No way, Genji's ult might actually be the worst in the game.
>>343615572
Mei needs bigger damage with no stun. Shit is annoying
>>343619843
Doubles should be removed anyways, without question
>>343620072
He is so mobile and hard to hit that only really good players actually kill him.
>Nerfing Mercy
>Before nerfing Lucio or buffing Zenyatta
I'm sure the obnoxious Luciofags would just love seeing him being picked all the time, 100% of the time again, but there's a reason why Mercy was buffed. If you nerf Mercy back to her beta version, everyone would just run double Lucio on every fucking map again.
>>343620061
how is tracer a counter? since when can she teleport? Do you know her damage falls off dramatically from range and pharah being in the sky is far range?
Reaper doesn't need 250 health.
He plays like an off tank that cheeses everyone.
200 health and he's perfect.
>>343620090
>worst
Everytime you hear him he kills 3-4 people.
>>343620202
the fucking shoot him you dumb nigger
>>343615572
>Mercy loses 10% ult charge on death
Fixes her being able to rez people immediately off spawn on defense and other shenannigans. If its going to be instant and non interruptable along with charging as fast as it does, it needs a downside.
>D'va can move full speed while shooting
Done
>Mcree fan damage changed to 70 damage for the first 3 then 10 for every subsequent bullet including the roll-fan combo
Allows him to actually counter genji, tracer and other flankers but makes him significantly less powerful against tanks and those being healed directly.
>Lucio AoE heal has an actual distance that matters
Shit is far too liberal with how far you can be away from him to get the effect.
>Mei ult can be shot down
She'll never be comp viable, might as well make pubs less painful.
>Zenyatta harmony orb lasts 5 seconds before returning, and he gets a speed boost while both orbs are out and about
QoL change so harmony actually feels worth a shit and makes him a better healer, while the double orb setup provides him with some mobility to actually survive things
>Tracer's dash goes on a collective cooldown when she uses all of them up, so if she uses all 3 she has to wait 9 seconds before she can dash again
Fixes the issue of her being borderline unkillable, and slippery at all times. Punishes people who abuse them and actually allows some counterplay from heroes that otherwise stand zero chance.
Only other thing I'd do is disable hero stacking in comp, its something pros can't do, its something that shouldn't be allowed in any competitive sense. It makes perfectly fine characters like Zarya complete horse-shit to deal with.
If you disagree thats fine, but I think these are all fine changes that don't ruin anyone.
Roadhog and Zarya are the only ones who need nerfed. Hanzo needs the hitboxes on his arrows reduced so I guess that'd be a nerf too since most Hanzo's cant aim for shit and still rape everyone.
D.va, and Zenyatta are the only ones who need buffs.
>>343620156
She's a counter because it's literately her job to woosh past the tanks and harass the backline.
Whether you can actually do that EFFECTIVELY or not is entirely up to you and your hand-eye coordination.
>>343620135
Thank you.
>>343619843
Of course they didn't.
Mercy used to have a startup before the Revive kicked in. It never worked, she was always killed before it got through.
They then made the revive instant, but Mercy is still a stationary, idle, squishy target, likely out in the open for the enemy to destroy for three seconds, denying the recently revived teammates from any healing in the same location they were just killed seconds before.
Mercy is perfectly balanced. That she and/or Lucio are pretty much mandatory 100% of any game to make a strong winning team is just par for the course in a game with any sort of healing.
>>343620139
>obnoxious Luciofags
Thank god I'm not the only one that thinks this.
Zenyatta fags are dellusional but at least they try. Mercyfags just wanna help their team.
Luciosfags just in it for the Sick plays.
>McCree gets hard nerfed so he can no longer kill anyone with FTH
>Tracers running rampant
>Genjis running rampant
>Reapers running rampant
>Roadhogs running rampant
Blizzard listening to /v/ was a mistake.
why doesnt genji have any armour
armour is all he is
>>343620302
I'm a Lucio main, but I hate it how every time you have a healer thread they just barge in and go
>LOL MERCY SUCKS LUCIO IS THE BEST HEALER
>LOL WHY PICK ZENYATTA WHEN YOU COULD PLAY LUCIO
Like, come on guys. Really?
>>343620272
are you retarded?
pharah is not backline she is in the sky where tracer does no damage
>>343620331
>Blizzard listening to /v/
Yeah right, nobody professional even knows about /v/, the "scary 4chan butthole of the internet" reputation scares them off and they go back to scouring rebbit for balance changes.
Make d va's ultimate not pass through walls.
>>343620382
Because it's flimsy ass paper-thin Japanese steel on top of wooden blocks.
>that feel when worker bee mercy
>flying around healing everyone and everyone
>team mate died? no problem you get a rez
>offense can't kill the genji trying to kill me? No problem I'll shoot em for you!
>You spamming shots at the enemy? let me buff you so they die to a single explosive!
Mercies greatOn a good team
>>343620260
The only thing to tweak with roadhog is his hook, I'm tired of getting hooked when in turning a corner just to be pulled back into the fucking wall his chain is clipping through.
Otherwise he's Fucking easy to deal with, more than five feet away? Congrats you countered him.
>>343620464
it doesn't
>>343620429
I was talking more about Tracer vs. Mercy but if it's a Pharah we're talking about, try Widowmaker.
Pharah may be strong but her 200 health is no match against skillshots. McCree's ult can pick her AND a tailing Mercy out of the sky pretty effectively as well.
>>343620464
And make her already useless ult even more useless?
>>343619380
You spelled Hanzo wrong.
>>343620127
Mei's damage / stun is fine, they need to remove the slowdown to aiming. At the moment Mei can just orbit a player whilst spraying and you can't turn enough to do anything before you freeze.
Keep the movement slowdown, drop the aiming slowdown.
>>343620486
its the 20 tick rate and how the system favours the initiator
>>343620331
no
blizzard listens to the general and reddit.
Both of which are fueled by butt hurt and feelings, and if you say something that the majority feels is rightLike mccree being OPyou're getting a one way ticket to the top of the discussion.
That and blizzard looks at the numbers. Like that's all they look at. You tell them a map is broken and they'll say "well half of the games result in a loss with both defense and offense".
It's crazy.
>>343620486
Heres how to fix the hook
>Nerf roadhog in some form
>Hooks go through solid objects
>>343620543
youre not paying attention to my point. first off mercy is always in the sky with pharah so she has a big damage fall off at range.
I mentioned earlier that snipers are the counter but they are out of the meta and only work in certain maps with certain players. In the meta now there are way too many sniper counters like tracer and winston to deal with when widow is nerfed. mcree is nerfed. Nerf all her counters and leave her alone.
>>343620240
This, they are so brain dead when they ult.
They just think about the sick play and they can't see the danger of the GIANT FUCKING HAMMER COMING AT THEIR FACE.
>>343619380
The only problem with Genji is his mobility, shooting him is like trying to catch a fly with chop sticks. His deal is mobility ala Tracer reduce his health or cool down his jumps.
>>343620464
caugth one
>>343620490
>>343620664
>Hooks go through solid objects
...
what?
>>343620608
>you're getting a one way ticket to the top of the discussion.
Upvotes are the worst thing to happen to internet forums.
Prove me wrong.
>>343619896
Just aim better. Flashbang and headshot.
>>343620729
Now you can't complain about him hooking you behind walls, because it's a feature now.
Imagine pulling supports with a hanzo thing, or doing some forsight shit where you predict them running behind a wall.
Would be glorious.
Or just introduce a hero that can shoot through walls
Is there a reason why sometimes Roadhog hooks people into unusual spots (behind him, to his side)? Are the hook targets holding down a movement key? is Roadhog moving too erratically? Just lag?
>>343620156
He was talking about countering Mercy.
And a good Tracer absolutely rapes any Mercy. Actually, a good Tracer rapes pretty much any =<200HP hero so if you have a Mercy hiding in the corner waiting for her LE EBIN POTG REVIVE Tracer can easily kill her.
>>343620723
Jumping in general should slow people down. Everytime I see people jumping around in the middle of a fight, I could vomit.
>>343620703
Then it's up to your teammates to make sure you can do your job effectively without being harassed too much.
This is a TEAM game. You have to work with your buddies to secure victory. I get what you're trying to say, but just because that one guy "countered" you doesn't mean any one character is OP or UP, it just means you're not getting the support you need from your team.
>>343620769
>just aim better
Wow I guess zenyattas fixed.
Guys we fixed zenyatta!
You just gotta aim better!
>>343620703
>first off mercy is always in the sky with pharah
Then a Widowmaker or S76 will kill her in under 5 seconds every time she decides to fly.
Are you sub-rank 50 by any chance?
>Roadhog in the game
>Gets a kill every 6 seconds
>B-but he's a walking ult charge
>B-but he's slow
>Just stay at range xD
>>343620331
I said this would happen, and nobody in my crew believed me.
I don't even want to play anymore because there's a Tracer in every fucking game, and even a mediocre one is nearly impossible to killon console
>>343620928
>bastion in the game
>gets a kill every second someone walks infront of him
That's what you sound like anon.
Git gud.
>>343620928
Sounds like you're a right shitter, m8.
>>343620813
i am talking about mercy pocketing pharah. in this case she will be high in the air in which tracer is useless because of huge damage fall off.
>>343620873
I get headshots with Zenny frequently.
Toss out that discord orb and you can kill Reinhardt or Roadhouse with little effort.
Mercy raining justice? Discord and kill.
So yeah, just aim better and keep your orbs on point.
Lrn2Harmony.
>>343620874
i am rank 60. there is a reason why you see pocketed pharah in every pro game
>>343620970
>Be a Lucio/Mercy main
>If the enemy team has a good Tracer, I basically spend half the game dead unless I have a pocket Roadhog/Reinhardt sticking to me
I'm not even having fun anymore.
Her ult should be stoppable. That's all I think needs to happen.
>>343620809
Was trying to figure it out myself and I got no real answer whatsoever. Your movement doesn't seem to matter, they just sometimes land somewhere next to you and make you mad. Really hoping for a fix here, this shit is not only annoying but can cause a loss potentialy.
>>343621006
>Shoot 2 rockets at Bastion, he dies instantly
>Shoot at Bastion at all
>He either has to sit there and die while not moving or go out of turret form and be useless
>Shoot Roadhog at all
>It tickles his 600 HP, half of which can be almost instantaneously healed back every 8 seconds
>If he goes around a corner can't follow him because he'll one shot you
>Hook on a 6 second CD and can bend space-time allowing you to just throw it in the general direction of people and receive a free kill
>Ult can mow down the entire enemy team
You sound like a Roadhog player.
>>343621102
I fucking love Zenyatta and spend most games on fire with with him but if you don't think his amazing squishyness is a problem you are wrong.
>>343621080
Once again, she is then countered by S76/Widow. If she on the ground, she is countered by Tracer. Genji can counter her to an extent in both scenarios.
You don't seem to understand class dynamics in this game, so I'll just assume you're rank 40~ or something.
>>343621141
>>343620970
>>343620331
>Only counter to a good Tracer is literally outplaying her or getting lucky because she can actively choose to avoid her counters
Same goes for Genji, a good Genji is a fucking nightmare to deal with.
They fucked up Mcree very hard.
>>343621102
bruh I thought like you once. I thought, maybe I just need to aim.
Nah, it's not an aiming thing when a 76 can blow you up just by rightclicking you.
You PHYSICALLY cannot kill some of these guys fast enough because of the discord travel time and the projectile fuckery.
If they were to fix him, maybe remove the damage buff for zenyatta and just give him flat damage increase
HEROES NEVER DIEfor a price
Can we just ban snipers in ranked? It seems like very fucking match I lose is because of some useless shitter that picks either Widowmaker or Hanzo, thinking they're hot shit and proceeding to do fuckall the entire match.
>>343618441
>>Think they give a shit about a mercy at that point.
How low is your MMR? People always ask about where the enemy Mercy is.
>>343621203
>Remove the thing that makes him unique and insanely powerful
Fuck off, you just confirmed your idiocy.
>>343615572
>McCree needs a buff
I don't think you have been paying attention. He's better than before.
>>343621181
>roadhog hooks someone
>zarya, mccree, pharah, junkrat anyone stop him by fucking with his combo
>hes now useless and will feed ult for the enemy team, while any other tank would be able to at least shield or back off
This is a very exploitable weekness, you just need to explot it.
I'm going to sleep, keep me posted champ.
>>343616605
The thing that makes him OP is his mobility and if you nerf it you break him, you basically need to re-design him completely. That's the problem with shallow characters like Lucio or Roadhog.
>>343621208
poor girl
>>343615572
>So we all agree...
This is the /v/ version of "We need to talk," or "This needs to be said"
>>343621242
>Be rank 59
>My entire team is sub-55but somehow the enemy team is the underdog
>Tell my team to to flush out the Mercy before trying to kill with Zarya ults
>They never do and always go for kills to pad their KDA like dumb dogs
>We lose
>"Wow, that enemy Mercy is just too good!"
AJSKHDLAHBVASJDLASIOJNC
>>343621263
no stupid, remove the damage buff FROM ZENYATTA. like all of his damage is increased but everyone else benefits from discord instead.
Fuck I'm tired, zenyatta does 135 damage without discord and his allies still benefit from it but he doesn't.
>>343621298
Haha yeah. You're right dude. Everyone on the enemy team will always be there every time Roadhog hooks someone to interrupt his left click.
Fuck off Chodehogger.
>>343615572
>lowest winrate
>needs nerf
Nice.
>>343621181
Nigga are you for real?
The only thing you got right is his hook is wonky as fuck.
His ult wipes out a team, give me a break it pushes you back for fuck sake at worst you're off the objective for a tick otherwise he's pissing in the wind.
>>343621276
>Fan nerfed from 420 damage to 245
>Better
What?
>>343621365
Now that the dust has settled...
>>343621390
crazy how hes almost designed to counter lonewolfers.
Swap Zenyatta's ult with Mercy's. Change his HP to 200, and allow his orbs to have unlimited duration so long as the target remains in the line of sight (if they leave they still have a 20 sec duration).
Allow D. Va's shields to heal her when she absorbs damage, maybe boost her damage output a little bit on targets that are farther away or give her an alt fire that allows her to deal with them
No idea on McCree or Mei.
>>343621184
I think he's fine. Don't get over confident. I make mistakes all the time thinking I can push up and getting fucked, but that's my own fault.
The orbs don't have damage fall off and with your discord you can pick players off from quite the distance.
Hang back and heal from the sides. Just don't be in open spaces too long or you will drop your balls.
I wouldn't mind a health buff but I also don't think it's completely necessary right now.
>>343621329
You could at least nerf his damage, his basic shot deals fuckload for a support and doesn't have any additional condition like others.
>>343621441
N-no
sorry
>>343621458
I always hang back in never leading the charge unless I ult for a push.
Give him 25 more health and rework his harmony orbs, I love him but you do not pick him to be the sole healer.
>>343621502
They already did
His damage is pitiful.
>>343621406
>>343621440
Yeah, I'm done arguing with you guys. He's going to get nerfed so I'm sorry you won't be able to abuse him for much longer.
There is a reason almost every top streamer plays him a lot or has switched to playing him a lot. And there is a reason there are at least 2 of them in every game.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
>>343621441
>Swap Zenyatta's ult with Mercy's. Change his HP to 200, and allow his orbs to have unlimited duration so long as the target remains in the line of sight (if they leave they still have a 20 sec duration).
So basically make him as retarded as he was during the beta, reverting the reasons why he was nerfed. Okay.Holy fuck you're dumb. Zenyatta got an HP and orb nerf because you could 5 man stack Zenyatta and literally melt through the enemy team with no effort at all.
>>343621419
FTH will most more than likely still kill you because your character is not strolling through the park after a pic nic. You have more than likely been shot already by at least a couple of stray bullets.
On top of that the delay penalty to start reloading after FTH has been decreased to practically zero. In other words Mcree is even more of a killing machine than before for the people that still play him.
>>343620257
Most sensible post in the thread is ignored.
>>343621576
They play him because they nerfed mccree and hes finally viable.
>>343620873
Zenyatta's issue isn't damage output (it is mediocre anyway).
Zen's issue is that he's a shit Support.
Harmony is sub-par healing. Zen has zero mobility options so he can't keep up to those in need nor does he have any staying power so he can't maintain healing in the thick of a fight.
Discord doesn't indicate itself to allies, yet it is easily broken by the target enemy since he IS given an indication.
>>343621441
>Swap Zenyatta's ult with Mercy's. Change his HP to 200, and allow his orbs to have unlimited duration so long as the target remains in the line of sight (if they leave they still have a 20 sec duration).
What the flying fuck are you smoking
That's ridiculously overpowered
>>343621576
Yeah I never play roadhog actually prefer Dva for tanks but I rarely tank to begin with.
You are a shitter, it's time to accept that.
Her ult charges ridiculously fast. That is indisputable. And if teams actually bothered protecting their Mercy, she would be gamebreaking.
>>343621681
The problem is that zenyatta needs to use discord for himself. he needs to shoot it at the targets hes killing instead of discording key targets.
>>343621618
Nigga are you high?
Prior to the nerf he flat out killed everyone but tanks in one fan, now he literally cannot kill anyone with 250 HP or above, nor can he kill a Genji in a fan as well.
>He's better if they took shots before he fanned
Jesus christ.
The delay isn't even worth talking about compared to the 840 damage he could pump out before and the 500 he does now.
He is and I hate to use the word because meme, OBJECTIVELY worse now.
>>343621681
Zenyatta doesn't need to keep up with his team considering neither of his abilities or his basic attack have any distance penalties. The only thing I'd buff are his orbs at this point.
>>343621708
He never played the beta, ignore him.
>>343621441
>swap ults
That doesnt work tho. Big lore no-no pal. See, Mercy draws on western myth and resurrection's pretty big there, even her back story had her reviving condemned characters, whereas zen is pretty much white guy buddhism and so he doesnt care about reviving the dead, only transcending reality, he's more selfish. Can't be done
>>343621618
I don't buy that, inbetween fth people are going to react either escape or countering.
The fact is after the nerf his role has been thrown out the window because he's not good at it anymore rendering him moot.
>>343621793
This. I haven't seen ANY McCree reliably kill Tracers or Genjis anymore - they always seem to slip away and then just go back to fucking up our backline a few seconds later if not just outright killing the McCree after.
McCree is fucking useless now - there's a reason why pro teams rarely pick him these days.
>>343621208
>thickfags
>>343621425
At least that usually prefaces an inquiry about opinion. I fucking hate when someone makes a thread and then says their definitive, overly specific opinion is shared not just by everyone, but is also fact.
>>343620551
>nerfing hanzo ult
That's even more retarded than nerfing Genji
>>343621860
>Buddhism
>Selfish
What the fuck am I reading?
>>343619380
I agree that it lasts too long, but the biggest problem is everyone panics when he ults and stops shooting him.
Her Rezz should require a line of sight or reduce the range of her rezz.
It's bullshit how she can stand to the wall inside their own spawn at Point 2 in Anubis and revive the entire team.
>>343621970
Only insofar as the self is the root of the world
>>343621618
Also the biggest issue is the spread with fth it's there and fucks you up, maybe some players can land all six shots every time but that's the amazingly low minority.
>>343619380
>Not just going Roadhog and hooking him every time he calls for Eugene
>>343622142
>That pic
kek
I enjoy playing Reinhardt when Genji goes full weeb. Slapping his asshole feels great.
>>343619380
>play Overwatch 20 hours a day
>spend weeks mastering hardest, most ineffective class in the game: Genji
>shit on one guy
>he bitches for a nerf on 4chan
If you think Genji is OP you have never played him. Dragon blade is the only way you can reliably get kills on him and it is still one of the worst ultis in the game. If you get killed by a Genji you deserve it because either you suck or he is amazing.
>>343620331
McCree certainly needed a heavy nerf, he was just unstoppable at release and made playing a Tank the most awful thing in the world, but yes they did overcorrect him a little bit.
I liked the idea the other anon had of buffing his 1st few shots of FAN then making the last few really weak.
>>343615572
Mercy doesn't need a nerf at all honestly. At best she should not be able to rez in spawn, but thats it.
Mei doesn't really need a buff either, though she doesn't need to be nerfed as hard as other people say neither. She mostly just needs a small nerf that lets people return to speed/unfreeze a tiny bit faster when not under attack however.
The rest I could see needing buffs though. McCree's job has become a thousand times harder, but his damage only needs to be upped slightly so he can handle Genjis and Tracers with ease again. Zenyatta needs a health buff definitely and Dva needs something to make her a bit more viable.
>>343620257
These are all horrible except for the idea of having Zenyatta's orbs give him a buff when both are out.
I see too many Zenyatta players not using one or the other. For him to be effective discord and harmony both need to be out.
>>343621793
Mcree is objectively better against squishies. He could kill them with a single FTH before and he can kill them with a single FTH now. This is a fact. And now his FTH reload delay is shorter.
As far as tanks go they are built to take damage. That is what they are there for. To take up shots for the team. This is also a fact. That is why it is highly likely they will be at less than 100% when encountered thus leaving them vulnerable to a single FTH.
Now let me take things a step further regarding tanks since we have already fully established that Mcrees patch is a true net buff against sqishies.
Tanks have very slow attack speed because they are tanks. Combine their already slow attack speed with the significantly reduced delay of having to reload after FTH and Mcree is now STRONGER against tanks than before because he can now reload faster than a slow tank can attack.
The only outliers are middle of the road characters like soldier but the lower FTH damage output can be mitigated significantly by the fact that Mcree can keep attacking them non stop with FTH without being vulnerable because his clip is empty for a significant amount of time.
>>343622441
>Healing Orb increases his health
>Discord Orb makes his speed faster
>>343622441
How exactly are any of those terrible? None of them are ridiculous at all.
>>343622442
>and he can kill them with a single FTH now.
Good luck with that.
>>343619380
His Ult is just a worse version of Bastion's though
>>343620257
Appart from the D'va suggestion which would make her broken as fuck, the rest is of higher than usual quality. I especially like the Mercy idea (maybe even go to 20%? 10 she will heal back in few secs) and Zenyata. You know what's up anon.
>>343622442
>They swing slow so he can reload faster to kill them!
>Whereas before he would literally dumpster them in a second with no need to reload.
>>343622586
D'va thing was more a shot in the dark. I'm of the opinion that she needs buffs but I have no clue how or what they should be. If she gets better in any significant way she becomes either a turbo-winston or turbo-tracer.
Thanks though, tried to think of changes that wouldn't gut them while retaining what makes them good.
>>343620284
Sensible post. People forget if she's doing a massive rez she almost always dies instantly, leaving the team with no healer.
Contrast this with Lucio's ult that essentially makes him and his team invincible for a few seconds while he heals any damage he received before he used the ulti, and he gets to hang around his team healing, dpsing, and annoying the fuck out of people.
Mercy's ult is almost better used when an important target like a tank goes down. A good team will never let Mercy get away with a 4-5 res (unless it's a lucky Junkrat ulti or something) and it's almost a wasted gesture at that point since they're all going to die again anyway, starting with Mercy.
>>343622441
You're on of those people who can only see opinions other than their own as invalid, are you.
>>343620543
>deadeye on a Pharah and pocket Mercy
One of these days I will do this, and it will be amazing.
>there are people who are unironically suggesting to nerf Mei
Why do you want to make one of the worst characters even worse?
>>343622807
>play against a team post mcree widow patch that think because they got nerfed they can abuse Pharmacy
>Shot 4 assholes out of the sky with deadeye
Wish I was recording it.
>>343615771
False. If you dont get through half her animation you do not rez people. Happened last night. I see 3 dead while in a black hole. I press Q, hear the sound, but no rez.
>>343622638
Before the patch Mcree was easy pickings for Rein because he would be totally defenseless after his FTH because there was a delay before reload.
>Mcree FTH
>Rien drops shield and breaks his skull because he's reloading
That delay is no longer there.
>Mcree FTH
>Rien drops shield and winds up
>Mcree unloads a full clip into his face
How come the NPC can Discord a Reinhardt with his shield up but players can't?
>>343620257
The only good changes here are the ones to Mcree and the harmony orb lasting longer. The speed buff might be ok if it isn't major, though I don't think it's necessary. D.va does need a buff but I'm not sure if having her retain full speed would be too good or not.
Mei nerf is retarded.
Lucio nerf is unnecessary
Tracer being difficult to kill is her only strong point and definitely doesn't need to be nerfed.
Mercy ult does not need a nerf, as many anons have explained in this thread.
>>343622860
It'd be nice if they could buff her while also making her less annoying to play against
Hearing that freezing sound and knowing there's nothing you can do for the next few seconds but wait for death is not a fun experience
>>343622971
No, Reinhardt would be fucking dead in the first interaction. No need to reload.
Mercy is good if she's with a good team. She sucks if you are in a bad team. If people scatter or push too far, you cant heal them. If they are behind walls, you cant heal them.
Sure the rez is the most powerful ult in the game, but while she can rez everybody, characters like Reaper, Zarya or Junkrat can KILL everybody. She's a counter to their ult.
I can see why rezzing 3 person can be annoying, but mercy is a tall while lady for a reason. She's defenseless. And she's a easy target. And she cant gain Ult % if she cant heal people.
That's why Roadhog is Mercy best friend.
How bad would if be if Reaper taking souls prevents Mercy from rezzing them?
>>343623026
Lucio has a 100% pick rate at high tiers of play so he needs a nerf, this one is sensible.
Mei was directed at OP's post about her, honestly I could care less. I just don't care for ults that you can't interact with in some way.
Tracer at high levels of play is absolutely broken, she is more survivable than the rest of the cast along with pumping out significant damage. With her main counters nerfed she has no real downsides at all.
Mercy ult is fine in its normal applications however its complete bullshit when it comes to defender side spawns, being able to literally rez your team through the spawnrooms wall is some serious bullshit and needs a change.
>>343622860
Mei core abilities are alright. The sniping is too strong though. She can no scope people way farther than she should be. Make her icicles arc like Hanzo or something.
>>343623206
Horrible. It would be a direct counter and make everybody pick a Reaper and just make people pick Lucio instead of Mercy.
>>343623206
That would be an oddly specific character interaction, and a buff Reaper doesn't really need.
>>343623301
Yeah. Reaper does not need a Nerf, but he really does not need a Buff.
>>343622971
A good Rein can block an FTH and even a Tracer bomb.
Not a lot of people know how but there is a way to do it.
It is Mcrees second attack with no delay that kills a good Rein now. Not the first FTH.
>>343623218
>With her main counters nerfed she has no real downsides at all.
Honestly 150 health is still a pretty big downside, even with her dashes and recall. A well placed junkrat bomb/mine, roadhog combo, phara rocket, helix rocket etc. can still fuck up her day.
I do think Mcree as a hard counter should return though, which is why I was ok with your suggestion for him.
>Lucio has a 100% pick rate at high tiers of play so he needs a nerf, this one is sensible.
He's insanely good, but I don't know if that necessarily makes him OP. I don't find him frustrating to play against whatsoever, so I think it's fine that his support potential is godly.
>Mercy ult is fine in its normal applications however its complete bullshit when it comes to defender side spawns, being able to literally rez your team through the spawnrooms wall is some serious bullshit and needs a change.
I can live with her not being able to ult from spawn. Nobody should be able to do that anyways.
>>343615572
Who in their right mind doesn't think Mei is as close to being OP as you can get without a actually being OP?
The last thing in the world Mei needs is any kind of buff.
>>343623897
People who aren't shitter faggots. Mei's low-tier at best, probably shit-tier overall.
>>343624397
You know nothing...and I don't even like Mei. That bitch has one of he best ults in the game.
>>343624573
It does almost no damage by itself, can be easily avoided if you just move out of the way, and Mei alone can't deal enough damage to kill off an entire frozen team.
Mei's ult is mid-tier at best, and it's the only ok thing about her aside from building a wall.
>>343615771
It is currently stoppable. I played a match as mercy last night, hit Q, she started saying her ult line and it locked me into the animation, at which point road hog hooked me and cancelled it.
>>343624573
Not really. It's a long freeze, but if nobody is there to kill people stuck in it, nothing happen. It's Zarya tier. Good but not the best.
>>343624656
I'd argue it's even worst then Zarya's since there's a significant lag time between the voice line ringing out and the freezing starting. While Zarya's is almost instant.
>>343624775
Yeah. And Zarya is great for any AOE or Reinhard.
Mei need you to go around picking them.
But it does make a whole part of a point dangerous for a longer time.
I think they should increase the damage of Mei's icicle secondary fire on Frozen targets. That or give her an ice-pic for a melee weapon that instakills frozen targets.
Her whole thing is she's supposed to be Overwatch version of a Pyro. But against tanks in particular, even if she gets the drop on people and manages to freeze them, they'll unfreeze before she can land the third headshot required to kill them- and probably instantkill her. And if they have teammates you're 100% fucked.
If Mei ambushes you then you should be dead. No questions asked.
>>343624656
Zarya's ultimate is shit tier. Those caught in it are still able to use all of their abilities and weapons. If any tank is in there, they just put up their shield (Winston, Rein, D.va) or bodyblock a lot of damage (Roadhog, Zarya) and quite easily defend the rest of their team from a lot of harm. At any time, several other heroes like Tracer can just escape the Graviton Surge or simply fight back.
Junkrat's trap is more effective than Zarya's Ult as it disables most ability use, the snare lasts equally as long and he can throw one out right after the current one is set off. It may require them to step right on it, but this is a game where every map is a series of chokepoints and doorways.
In comparison Mei's ultimate is far more effective - it has an equally large if not larger radius of effect, enough to cover the entire surface of all except the widest Control points in the game. Those lucky enough to escape (no, it's not that easy, the radius is so wide and the slowdown so quick that only those near the edge are going to escape by "just walking out", you'd need a high mobility skill on hand to get away). The slowdown and the freeze time last longer than Zarya's black hole.
As a teamwork tool, since they're not all bunched up when frozen, everyone can take their time to aim and headshot each enemy as opposed to shooting at the mass of targets bouncing around inside the little black sphere.
>>343625197
Dumbest shit I've ever read and I main mei for defense
>>343615771
zen's is actually a teeny tiny bit longer than mercy's
practically instantaneous but there is a very very VERY slight delay
the only reason i've noticed is because i play those two exclusively
>>343621174
I think it may have something to do with extra momentum. Someone had noted it happened more frequently when a Lucio had been speed boosting their hook targets.
>>343618636
If you saw that it was probably fucked netcode. Mercy is uninterruptible.
>>343615572
My Opinion isirrelevant but:
>Mercy needs at least 2 seconds in which rez can be cancelled by death
>Zenyatta needs his right click to be changed to something that mitigates damage or adds avoidance
>D.Va needs her movement speed increased while she shoots
>Pharah needs 50 of her health replaced as Armour
>Roadhog should swing his hook round one before he throws it (around 0.5 second delay)
>Zarya's shield should create less charge on damage but last a second longer
>Mei should be able to ski across her M1 fire for a slight movement speed increase
>Hanzo should be deleted from your game if you have a lower than 50% accuracy
Last two are obvious, but there it is. Come at me /v/!
>enjoy playing as Mei
>how I feel most of the time.
Ice to meet you.
>>343625197
>I want to break the game
No friend, you are wrong.
>>343626862
Mercy main. Can be interrupted you fucking twat.
>>343625504
>Zarya's ultimate is shit tier
Your opinion shows how bad you are at the game.
>>343626975
>Some kek picks mei
>casts wall under you/in front of you at the start of the game
>casts wall on doors just as you're about to go in fuck some nigga up
>casts wall at random just in general
Man, bad players of most other characters you can just ignore because at least they don't get in the way, but bad Mei players are the worst.
>>343627016
So thats where Pharah attaches the leash when its time to pocket-heal, I see..
>>343627325
>be Soldier
>active Ult
>friendly Mei walls the enemies off
Every time.
>>343627110
Zarya is vastly overrated and her abilities are shit.
Once you get over the hype of how "good" she is with these recent weeks of competitive meta experimenting with her, you will see that she doesn't do anything well. Like Bastion, Zarya is only good if the enemy team is retarded.
Just pick Winston if you want to drop a barrier where the WHOLE team can use it as well as being a better harasser, or Soldier 76 if you want to actually do high damage right off the bat from further than 15 meters and can support the WHOLE team with a 200HP heal equivalent to Zarya's 200HP bubble on one person.
Hell, Zarya is so shit that I willingly shoot at her bubble just to break it faster than the 2 seconds it is up and still outdamage her with most of the cast.
>>343627325
Good thing I don't do that. I usually all off a ton of areas, or try to wall people away from others. Playing to my strengths as Mei is what I do best. My only issue is groups which I cannot really handle without my Q.
Sym could do with a buff, something to make her more viable on anything other than 1st point defense, of course she's great on 1st point defense but not great on anything else.
What I'd like is a reduction of the activation time for turrets, they take ages to get going as they are an it's hard to get them going in the heat of battle.
Rework her shields in some way, like up the shields up to 50 but make allies lose them when the Sym dies. Or something that I thought of was, you drain power from enemies with sentries and her gun, once you drain enough you can put this on allies for 100 shields. 100 shields would be huge, but also again you can make it so Sym loses it when she dies if that's too overpowered.
>>343627443
Not even a little. A good Zarya can carry a team, it's ok that you don't understand how she works, but her high damage and survivability are unmatched. If you think you can't get charge just because people are aware of how your hero mechanic works, you are bad at playing Zarya. If you think her team abilities arn't useful, you are bad at playing Zarya.
>>343627981
Not the same Anon but he's right, just shoot her, even with her shield up, put some pressure on her and she can't do anything, she has the lowest HP of all the tanks and can't stand pressure at all.
>All this bastion hate
I think he's still a worthwhile hero in defense. I'm 64 and he's excellent when the opposite team is light on flankers. The key is to always change positions and to quickly disengage from turret mode when the enemy tries to take you out. Nothing stops a push faster than an unexpected Bastion attack from an unexpected angle.
>join in "competitive play"
>7/10 games my team has zero focus, I'm the only one trying to play as a team
>playing reinhardt means I'm always alone and my team runs away from my shield
>playing support means everyone's always running away from me
>no one ever turns around, enemies walk past them and they don't even attempt to turn
>get placed at 46 for something out of my control
>next match
>we have a hanzo on attack
>absolutely zero pushing power because of it
>lose
>now defense
>Again I'm the only one who can turn around
>lose, moved down to 45 because of something out of my control again
This is why ranking is a bad idea
>>343628223
Well if you are trying to solo the enemy team as her then guess what? You are a bad player. Same goes for any hero. It's a fucking Team game, and Zarya fits nicely into her roll as a frontline tank with one of the most useful team Ults https://youtu.be/o_L3y4nTTYM?t=341
If you understand how to play her you can take a lot of pressure off your team mates. If you are using her shield like Reinhardt's shield you are doing it wrong. It is used purely for reaction, or damage boosting. Did you know if you stand in front of a Hammer down and shield when it drops it stops the wave getting past you, effectively negating the entire ult? You can pop a shield on a friend for the same effect, this also includes uses like negating the slow effect of Mei, and cancelling out Junkrats Tire. TLDR; Zarya is an amazing hero choice.
>>343619483
her building charge is almost entirely out of her hands though.
>>343615572
>Mercy
Revive has a smaller radius.
>Zenyatta
????
>D.Va
Smaller head hitbox.
>McCree
Fan hammer does 55.
>Mei
????
>>343622860
a good mei player is brutal and will win any one on one.
But she becomes at best ok in most other situations, and is annoying in all of them
>>343619626
Or the easier solution would be to increase is movement speed and give him a double jump. Now his mobility/evasion has been dramatically improved, which both offsets his low health, and without having to rework his ult.
>>343629420
>Zenyatta
>???
See >>343629509
>>343629463
>will win any one on one.
Against Reinhardt and Roadhog?
She doesn't have the DPS to kill them before they smash her face in.
>wreck the enemy team so hard that they rage quit
So how exactly Zenyatta a bottom tier hero? I'm genuinely curious.
I've been playing with my friends recently who just got the game, so the people we're playing against are low level and kinda bad. If I play Zenyatta against them, I often get 20+ kills with about 5 deaths. (Not saying I'm good, just highlighting how bad the people we're playing against are.)
Is that why he's not good at higher level play? Because he's only good to get kills against people who don't know any better, and can't easily do actual support things like healing?
>>343629687
>bastion player with a pocket rein and mercy
You don't have any right to talk
>>343619337
this
>>343629595
Yeah, I could get behind that.
>It's a OP doesn't know how to deal with a character so it has to nerfed episode
I think Zens healing orbs shouldnbe line of sight to attach but should stick on the teamate forever, its not like there that good
>>343615572
Why are Blizzard game fans the biggest nerf-crying shitter retards in existence?
This is why I don't play Blizzard games anymore, well one of the many reasons, but still. You idiots will cry nerf at anything, and Blizzard caters to retards like you.
First you came for Widowmaker, who was fine. Now you're coming for another one of my characters, who is also fine.
If only you retards could realize how wrong you are but you wont because Blizzard caters to retard whiners so you use that as validation.
Good thing I didn't pay money for this piece of shit game and had it bought for me instead. Less remorse for dropping it like the piece of shit game that it is.
>>343630645
should be*
>>343615572
>buffing the immortal god of duels
fuck off mei player
>>343627016
You clearly haven't been paying much attention.
Shitty connection and >20 tick can make it seem like it but once the game recognises the ult has been popped it's going through no matter what.
>>343618668
> Playing comp
Here's your problem.
Give seperate buffs/nerfs to comps and pubs.
>>343630645
>he doesn't know
>>343629969
Zenny's not really a BAD character, he just has no way to stand out in a team right now. His healing orb is very useful, and with discord, his damage output over range is really high.
However, the combination of shit movement, mediocre ult, and squishiness leaves him with no really big role to play in competitive matches. The most his ult can do is stall. Lucio's is the same, Granted, but after Lucio ults, he can continue to perform other actions and the entire team can split up. Zenny's ties everybody to one position and he can't do anything else while the ult is going, and because he's so squishy and slow, if a team targets him he'll spend half the match just crawling back to battle.
So, teams opt for Lucio instead and just depend on offense heroes for the damage.
>>343615572
I think your buff list is spot on, but there should be more added to the nerf list.
>reduce range on torj turrets
>reduce range on junkrat grenades
>reduce Lucio health, armor
>>343630656
> Why are Blizzard game fans the biggest nerf-crying shitter retards in existence?
It's TF2 fags moving to Overwatch. Do you guys remember all the shitters nerfing everything in TF2?
>>343630656
The Smash community is 20x worse in this regard, but you're right though.
>>343619784
>whereas her being shit comes from the fact that she brings very little to the team.
I disagree. I think a Mei can give a defending team a significant advantage if she's being competent and the team responds to that.
1) chocking pathways with wall
2) freezing reds approaching point (and an offensive character can clean up the icsicles if she's freezing a lot of them)
3) ulting when 3+ reds are charging the point
>>343630656
Nope. Bungie.
Bungie ruined Halo and set a precedent throughout a lot of games of taking anything that's strong and turning it into shit rather than making everything else better.
>>343615572
Time for some trivia
The medic in Tf2 literally makes people invincible. The medic himself and whoever he chooses are unable to die for a short duration. OH WOW so broken right. Years and this invincibility hasn't been patched! You should be able to kill them guys!
Fucking crybabies
>>343632061
Ubercharge was also lost on death and took a fair bit to charge
McCree is fucking useless now
I mean seriously, who the fuck wants to play Ambassador Spy? Because thats all he has now.
Mei and Hanzo do the "stand far away with an unscoped rifle" thing that the default click does on Mcree
if you have an opinion about mei that isn't gut her like the fat hog she is then you don't care about ever actually having fun in this game.
>>343621329
Then reduce the area for his healing. All a Lucio does is speed to get into the fight and then heal all the time.
Put incentive to swap stances.
Maybe have both special on seperate cooldown so you want to be swapping them so a special is always up. Either healing or speed.
But he does need a nerf of some kind.
>>343632192
Fan hammer just needs to be buffed back up a little bit. I don't know why they felt the need to drop the damage so severely. McCree should still be able to bust people up at close range. It was just a little too easy for him to shred tanks before.
>>343632380
55-60 per hit on fan.
So punish low health for letting him get close but not enough to insta kill a tank.
>>343632129
You are correct, but I'm more speaking to how you literally can't stop an uber charge in progress and with a good team its arguably one of the best tactics in the game.
I'm not going to give some long breakdown for internet points but just throwing it out there there's more sides to this whole thing and despite the "competitive mode" overwatch is fairly casual and people need to chill out. Game's only been out for a short time and all I ever see is crying and about the medic no less.
>>343620423
Because it's true.
Lucio is so busted that you have no reason to pick Zen and unlike Mercy he always works.
>>343632467
He should be able to kill tanks just as good as Reaper
He's the alternative to reaper
Like Phara is the alt to 76
>>343632467
>instakill
>punish
Yes him going back to one shoting 16/21 characters is great.
>>343630792
you're flat out retarded
>>343632706
What? Pharah and 76 couldn't be more different.
>>343617067
>nu Spongebob
>>343632706
>alt to character
>also murders that character
seems balanced
>>343632806
76 and Phara = A mob A dps
Reaper and Pre-Nerf-Mcree = C mob A dps
Lucio and Genji = A mob C dps
Tracer = A mobility B dps
Roadhog = F mobility A dps
>>343615572
>pic related requires a small nerf
No, what we require are more healers that are worth picking other than her and Lucio. Her ult is balanced by game circumstances and by the fact that she's fragile with no defensive abilities and the highest value target in the game. It's like people want to balance based on imaginary scenarios where Mercy revives her entire team who died instantly in the same spot while not being raped by enemies along the way, the actual games doesn't work like that and any res beyond 2 people is quite rare, while ults that kill 2+ are extremely common.
>Zenyatta
Yes, should be buffed. His survivability for sure and maybe even his healing. He heals for like half of what Mercy/Lucio heal with his ult included, that pretty much doesn't make him a viable healer.
>D.Va
Yes as well, something needs to be done at the very least about her meka's headshot hitbox
>McCree
I don't think so, he's all about precise aiming and the flash is still pretty much a death sentence for lots sof characters
>Mei
Eh, maybe, depends on how. I don't think she should do more damage or something like that.
>>343632706
Pharah is the alternative to Junkrat if anything.Zenyattais the alternative to Reaper
>>343632806
ecks dee
>>343632908
the amount of DPS doesnt make them similar its just their amount of DPS soldier and reaper (both A dps but) have very different targets and heroes they are good at killing
>>343633171
>horizontal mobility vs vertical mobility
>automatic vs semi-automatic
>hitscan vs projectile
>suppression ult vs destruction ult
>area healing vs area clearing
Do you think Mercy likes ficki ficki?
>>343615572
>buffing mei, dva and mcree
nigga what are you smoking
>>343622971
What are you talking about? If you rolled, you didnt have a delay on the FTH reload.
You could just outright melt rein or any other tanks.
>>343632908
>reaper
>C mob
How exactly?
>Zenyatta
Heal someone with Harmony and it heals him. If someone with Discord is damaged he gets a small amount of armor. Buffs his survivability a bit while requiring him to use his abilities smartly. Make his ult Harmony and Discord everyone in line of sight instead of a 100 HPS heal but make him vulnerable. The aforementioned Harmony and Discord mechanics apply during ult.
>D.Va
Make her cannons ignore damage resistance from armor. Shrink her critbox.
>McCree
Bring fan damage back to how it was, put a 4.5 second cooldown on it. The problem was not damage, it was being able to doublefan via combat roll.
>Mei
Cut the cooldown for ice wall in half but lower the health for each pillar to 200. It's less powerful but she can use it more, which gives it more utility while being less annoying to play against.
And give the following nerfs:
>Roadhog
Make the hook immobilize instead of a full stun, so characters with escape abilities can use them, forcing Roadhog to pick his targets better.
>>343632958
Pharah is the alternative to tracer and genji
She is a flanker designed to disrupt the enemy team.
If you're playing her like Junkrat you're vastly under using her.
>>343632317
There's no reason to mess with stance swapping right now, smart Lucio play is about knowing when to boost, ideally you shouldn't always be in healing stance.
I always say that his nerf should be reduced passive healing and buffed amp healing to compensate so that he needs to pay a lot more attention than he currently does.
Maybe even tweak the CD of amp.
>>343634558
Her purpose is area denial and AOE damage
>>343615572
No, if anything Mercy needs an E ability that helps her survive, right now she is a punching bag with no real way to stay alive. The main issue right now is that the game only has 2 supports and only one of them is a healer/defensive oriented one. Lucio is great but he can't solo support on the defensive side, Zen is a total mess right now and isn't useable at high level.
If you nerf Mercy you kill the defensive side in every map, her ultimate HAS to charge fast or else you'd literally never get to use it, it would become so precious that you would have to save it instead of being able to use it liberally. Defensively you have to hold off 8-10+ teamfights per game and without something like revive you have no way to fend off suicide rushes by the offense. The attackers could dive in and kill 2 people and that's enough because the attacking runback is 1/3rd what the defenders have, all they would do is respawn and win the ensuing 4v6 teamfight.
Mainly people think Mercy is OP because the game is designed around having her in nearly every lineup. The way you fix this is by adding more supports, not nerfing the ones that exist.
>>343615946
Attach it to D.Va and it's up instantly. Though I don't think she needs a nerf, but I'm biased, I only play mercy.
>>343634508
A nice soft buff for Zenyata would be the ability to attach the Harmony orb to teammates through walls.
Does my fucking head in chasing after people behind cover or looking for medkits when everyone but me has mobility enhancements.
>>343634508
Removing doublefan would make McCree even worse, even if the damage was returned to what it was.
Honestly, fixing McCree is as simple as raising the damage on FTH by 5 points. That would bring a lot of his shots to kill back up to what they used to be without him being able to just crush characters that have any damage already on them.
>>343615572
>Thinking any one of them need a nerf.
You know who REALLY need to be looked at?
Tanks.
Reinhardt is the only balanced tank at the moment. Every single fucking comp game has AT LEAST 3 tanks per side. D.Va and Winston especially can just instant transmission to your support, rape the shit outta em, then instant transmission back.
That's what competitive has come down to, killing the support then ulting the enemy team. The best people to do that are tanks with a huge HP pool.
Even though its most likely far too late to redesign 2 characters.
>>343634951
>Removing doublefan would make McCree even worse, even if the damage was returned to what it was.
It'd make him worse against tanks, but upping the damage would let him reliably kill the people he's supposed to kill.
>>343634772
>With no real way to survive
>Can literally fly a million miles away out of everyones effective range.
So what do you think they'll do to Zenyatta? Based on what they've said they'll almost certainly be doing something to him, and it will probably be a buff.
But what is wrong with him specifically? He has weaknesses like low health and poor mobility but they exist to counter his strengths and improving them too much is probably something they want to avoid.
>>343634738
>aoe damage
You must play a mean Pharah anon
>>343635237
See: >>343630982
As for what exactly to fix, I don't know. Mobility would probably be the simplest improvement, though.
>>343635237
Buff mobility and nerf discord.
>>343635658
>>343635237
Please no
>buff zenyatta
>now he's too powerful
>he gets nerfed too hard
>now he actually is garbage
>>343619896
This translates to: "I'm a salty bitch because I can't get easy kills anymore"
Shut the fuck off
>>343635237
someone suggested give him a speed or -dmg buff based on how many people touched his balls
>>343615572
Mei's fine, and Zenyatta's fine. The others, yes.
>>343636071
Not him, but now he can't kill people he's supposed to kill if it's a full HP situation. He was always meant to 1shot squishy flankers such as Genji and friends.
>>343636007
They need to buff him otherwise nobody will use him. A buff should be based on the player's skill at using his abilities well, but that would likely require coding new mechanics from scratch instead of changing a variable or two. What they're more likely to do is just give him another 50 health.
>>343635221
>Can only fly to teammates, very easy to not have a safe target to fly to
>Flying doesn't increase your defense or make you invincible, still take damage from anything that hits you
>Flying makes you move in a very straight line, easy to target
It's not going to help you against most attackers, 76/Widow get free shots on you, Tracer/Genji/Winston can all just jump back on you at your new location, Roadhog can still hook you, Pharah can easily predict your flight path.
Try playing Mercy and see for yourself, shes frustrating to play.
>>343636375
That's the last thing they should do.
>>343636375
But people DO use him, just because the bad players don't use him doesn't mean he's not used, Zenyatta is LITERALLY perfect right now and anything they do to him will either make him over powered to under powered.
>>343636375
They've already had him at +50 health and dropped him to his current hp. If they buff him it might be movespeed
attack speed buff would be hilarious
>>343615572
Mercy ult needs to take longer to charge.
McCree either needs a bit more health or some change in abilities.
Zenyatta is too strong, nerf shield.
Remove Mei healing when she puts herself in ice.
>>343619784
Mei is a support character and exists to CC, block paths, and hold the point for an extended period.
The only thing she needs buffed is her alt-fire. The damage falloff is way too fucking high.
>Cryo Freeze: Can be targeted on allies. Stuns ally for the duration (4s), and heals them for 200hp. They are considered to have Armor for the duration. Longer cooldown (15s or so).
Literally a shittier version of Zarya's shield.
>>343619896
McCree is fine if you actually know how to aim. Watched him pick apart teams in GOSU yesterday.
>>343636642
That's Zarya, Zenyatta is the robot healer
>>343636642
>Zenyatta
Zarya*
>>343636642
>Mei
do not remove it just halve it or something
>>343619380
no, it's trash, unless you run into retard compositions without a single tank
>reinhard
>just autoattack twice, genji should be dead
>zarya
>shield the guy he's trying to kill, spam rmb, ded
>roadhog
>just combo like usual
>d.va
>yeah that one could be a problem, but who plays d.va as a tank anyways
>>343632916
>>Zenyatta
>Yes, should be buffed. His survivability for sure and maybe even his healing. He heals for like half of what Mercy/Lucio heal with his ult included, that pretty much doesn't make him a viable healer.
He's not supposed to be a terrifically viable healer. He's supposed to be reasonably proficient at doing multiple things at once. Having him be an incredible healer on top of dealing good damage and debuffing would be super lopsided.
>>343618636
>>343627016
Same person
Mercy's ult is instant, the animation comes after the ult procs.
>>343636891
It needs to go, too often she gets away with putting herself on ice, and as soon as she's out she walls. And by doing this she's taking attention away from the rest of her team, but you can't turn your back on her because she'll just fucking freeze you to death. Fuck the healing.
Man. /v/ is TERRIBLE at balance.
Remove Discord completely as an ability. Instead it becomes a passive: all enemies hit by a normal attack take extra damage for 1 second. Doesn't stack, being hit repeatedly resets the duration.
>>343634957
There's so many fucking characters that counter tanks. You're retarded as fuck.
>>343637220
how about let her ice block be destroyed with enough damage like her wall
>>343637391
That would be good. I don't know why it doesn't work like that.
>>343637220
Half the healing, make it so she can't cancel out of it, and freeze her cooldowns while she's in it, so she can't get wall cooldown while in statis.
>>343637342
No, that's horrible, and it makes Zenyatta seem like he's doing even less.
>Tracer and Genji
nerf their damage and/or health
>>343637465
When she uses it on herself can she see around her? Or is she blinded?
>>343634957
If your support gets killed by a Dva you have a shit support.
>>343615572
You obviously don't play Mercy much. You're literally a bullet magnet and always the main target....
"Guys will you check behind and above ffs!"
"Justice rains from above!!"
The end.
>>343615572
Mercy is fine cause she has almost no offensive capabilities. her pistol does nothing.
>>343615572
Anyone who cries for buffs and nerfs is just a pissy baby who cries when he dies. Git fucking gud.
>>343637570
I think she should still be able to see around her. I think a possibility here though would be to keep her in first person view, and lock her vision to whatever is directly in her first-person FoV.
Mercy's ult is the only thing keeping her in the game, tbqfh. She's inferior to an even halfway competent Lucio and if they buff Zen they could easily break him.
>>343637737
When I started playing I thought she was completely blinded which I think would be fair, and then muffled sounds around her. As it stands she really does have too much power.
>>343636891
>>343637220
>>343637465
>>343637737
>>343637815
Jesus fucking Christ /v/. Mei is trash, and yet you want to nerf her. Unreal.
>she really does have too much power.
Fucking embarrassing.
>>343615572
Mei doesn't need a buff at all. She is bullshit.
>>343637539
"Seem" is irrelevant, "actually is" is what matters.
Or maybe refluff it so Discord is the primary attack and "Orb of Destruction" buffs an ally's damage while in line of sight, but that'd make him too similar to Mercy.
>>343637896
She does.
>>343637732
I think Dva should get a buff, because I feel bad when the enemy team has one. They're basically down a player.
>>343637738
Her ult comes up way too often though. You can kill an entire team, watch it res, and kill it again moments later, only to have it res again. If she is getting max charge the entire time, she can cast 3 times in roughly a minute. That's not fucking right.
>>343637978
She needs the ability to exit the mech manually, as her pistol is pretty good for taking turrets/bastions down at range on some maps. the mechs damage is pretty useless at range though.
>McCree can't even duel a Reaper anymore
>but is M1 is decent so he doesn't need a small buff
Wew
>>343638162
but, she has almost no offense
can only heal one person at a time
is weak as fuck
requires a team mate for decent mobility
and you are a key target on the field
Mercy's ult is just fine when everything else about her is factored in.
>>343637932
Zenyatta doesn't need a nerf, he folds like paper. His Orb of Discord only effects one enemy at a time, his Orb of Harmony does minimal healing on a teammate, and his base attack has travel time. He has typical mobility, and therefore no advanced evasion. Put him 1 v 1 against any character in the game, and he's very likely to lose, unless the person playing him has great accuracy, and the person he's against can't aim worth shit.
>>343636519
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OKmtjRwMew
>>343637948
She is a literal non-entity in mid-to-high level play. D.Va, who is generally regarded as borderline useless by almost everyone, is picked more often because has at least a single use.
Mei is trash.
>>343615572
By far the biggest shitters in this community are people that somehow think Mercy needs to be nerfed.
>>343638515
At no point did I suggest Zen should be nerfed.
>mfw no one shit talking my nigga
>>343638430
She's not weak as fuck, she has fine mobility, although inferior to Lucio. It needs to charge slower, that's it.
lucio should be able to blow back a single projectile with his alt fire desu
>>343617786
It's just that now McCree doesn't counter the poeple he's supposed to counter because they can just use abilities to get away before they die. So now he counters nobody, and since this game is like 90% counterpicking, there's no reason to pick him ever. I think he should at least be able to do the 250 damage to kill reaper in 4 shots + flashbang, so reapers can't just wraith away 100% of the time when fighting McCree.
>>343638545
So what are some solutions to the D.Va problem?
The way I see it, she's basically the Heavy from TF2, yes? So what works for him that isn't working for D'Va. She has a little too much damage fall off, not enough mid-range damage?
>>343638769
No, git gud with it and knock the character off instead.
>>343638162
this is why mercy is a fucking high priority target. kill her over any other character
>>343638820
>The way I see it, she's basically the Heavy from TF2, yes?
You're fucking retarded.
>>343638842
i do that all the time, doesnt really work once you get into higher level play and people dont hang out around ledges like retards though
>>343638637
And yet you're trying to break Discord and make him much less effective, are you not?
>>343638769
He can blow back projectiles. I've deflected both Road Hog's hook, and Hanzo's arrow.
>>343638937
Are you functionally illiterate? Words have meanings. Understand them.
Mei
-M1 no longer fucks with sensitivity
-M1 takes an extra 0.5 seconds to full freeze
-Cryostasis can be broken and has 500hp
+Ult arms faster and can be held down to show where it's going to land
+Frozen targets take extra damage
+M1 can hit multiple targets
+M2 has a 0.5 second slow
+Wall has a slowing aura around it and when combined with M1 makes them freeze 2x faster
Mei in her current state can't get flat buffed without being overpowered, her annoyance factor is down to her fucking with your sensitivity, extra freeze time from M1 alone makes it so you have room for counterplay however she should really gain the ability to be a team disruptor
Thoughts?
>>343638883
How so? When she spins up her weapons, she slows to a steady march. She's effective up close, and her damage drops off as the spread increases at distance. That is very much like the Heavy.
>>343617786
>McCree and Mei being weakened makes for a more diverse
CHEERS LUV
TAKING THE POINT
CALVALRY'S HERE
>more diverse met
GENJI IS WITH YOU
GOOKSPEAK
>DIE DIE DIE
I hate what the game's become without McCree being just a tiny bit stronger and I fucking called it
>>343615572
>>343615771
make her ultimate have charges up to 5.
lose 1 upon death, can't get lower than 2 charges
>>343639036
Are you not the one that proposed breaking Discord by removing it, and having his base attack apply additional damage for a 1 second duration, without stacking? That sounds very much like a nerf.
>>343620179
Do you want to buff Mei that badly? Because right now, he's one of the few offense to reliably kill her in close range
>>343639125
Does Heavy have a method to close the distance against literally anyone every 5 seconds? No? Does Heavy have a method to ignore all damage in front of him for 3 seconds? No? Then you're fucking retarded and need to go back to TF2 instead of assuming everything there applies here just because one mechanic is only slightly similar.
wow its people wanting little mac nerfed all over again...
>>343638648
they only thing they could change about him that wouldn't be overboard is increase his reload speed to 2 or 2.5 seconds to reduce efficiency of spamshitters
>>343615572
Roadhog heal should have start up to it where it can be interrupted. It doesn't have to be long, but it shouldn't be an instant free heal.
Mei should be able to ice slick the ground for a speed boost to her and allies who travel on it.
There, now she's useful for competitive.
>>343639104
There is no point making he Cryostasis breakable, that negates the purpose of having it in the first place. And with 500 health, it would be easier to just wait for her to exit it before laying into her again. And buffing her ult? That's fucking nuts. If anything, it needs a nerf. It should just detonate in an AoE around her, rather than tossing out like a grenade.
>>343639293
200 hp would not make him any different when fighting Mei
If Mei gets the freeze off before Reaper can kill her, he's dead, nothing changes if he has 200 hp because she is still going to do the same thing
>>343639257
>Discord can now be applied to up to 3 enemies at once and applies automatically instead of having to be applied manually
>this is a nerf
>>343639356
Clearly, I was talking about that one firing mechanic, you fucking dipshit.
>>343639460
I really don't think it needs a nerf, its pretty useless right now, you can be in the center and walk out before getting frozen
However I do like the idea of it being an AoE that follows her
>>343639539
That's nice mongoloid, but characters have more than one mechanic and all of them need to be considered together. You can't say "change this one thing to be like my favorite character from my favorite Orange Box game!" without considering how it'll be affected by the character's other abilities.
>>343638820
D.Va is nothing like the Heavy.
Her problem is that she's not better at anyone else with what she does, and she's a giant walking Ult battery for the enemy team.
Her guns have massive fucking falloff, but don't do good DPS for how risky they are to use, they do nearly half the DPS Reaper's do.
Her Defense Matrix is a really shitty version of Rein's shield that's only good at eating a few ults and Bastion.
Her Flight is only good for getting around with, because she can't fucking shoot while it's up for some reason. It does too little damage when she collides with someone, and the knockback is unreliable or useless in a lot of situations.
Her Ult is the worst in the game by a country mile, requiring her to give up all of her abilities and become a 150hp little girl for 6 seconds. The bomb itself almost never kills anyone and due to most objectives having cover right in the middle of them, it can't even clear a point 99/100 times. It's also coutnered by every shield ability, Mei's wall, and any kind of Knockback can push it to a useless location. On top all of that it has the longest charge up time in the game, almost 50% higher than the next closest up.
>>343639125
>>343639539
The biggest difference is that D.Va is a short range character that does meager damage, whereas the Heavy is the highest DPS class in TF2.
They should really just remove the speed reduction entirely.
>>343620331
>roadhogs running rampant
That's a good thing you little twat. Mcree was never meant to be a Tank counter, that's reaper's job
>>343638648
I find him to be the new McQueer nowadays. Broken utility to damage ratio also with his knockback mine + trap. I wouldn't feel safe about not receiving nerfs if I were you.
pls don't nerf my boy lucio
>>343639895
I don't even know why people want to nerf him, really. I find he's acceptable as long as they don't nerf the other healer into uselessness.
HOW DO YOU COUNTER THIS MEME
>>343619954
This.
>>343639534
That isn't even remotely close to what you said.
>>Remove Discord completely as an ability. Instead it becomes a passive: all enemies hit by a normal attack take extra damage for 1 second. Doesn't stack, being hit repeatedly resets the duration.
That is a nerf, bro. Applying 1 second of Discord effect to any enemy you hit is a nerf. Unless you have god-like aim, and your teammates are spot on, any enemy you hit is going to suffer the debuff for an inconsequential amount of time, especially if you're trying to hit multiple targets to try simultaneous debuffing. His current Discord is more effective than this dodgy-ass "solution". This is a nerf.
>>343639889
>mfw thought of them needing the trap
>>343639889
Nerfing****
>>343640031
Double Reaper
>>343640031
Reaper, Roadhog, Zarya.
>>343640209
Killing a meme with a meme. Classic strategy.
>>343640031
Reap the weak
>>343638648
he should take damage from his own mine. if pharah takes damage from rockets, he should as well.
>>343615572
>Mei
>Buff
You're a funny guy. I like you.
>Mei
>buff
Are you retarded?
>>343640031
1 reaper
I'm not calling out for nerfs or anything but does anyone else really hate reapers
they just waddle over and three shot you
>>343640425
He already takes damage from his own grenades, Pharah has Jump Jets, and that's literally his only mobility skill you fucking neanderthal.
>>343640497
They have no real hard-counter characters right now except Roadhog, even then some Reapers can pre-emptively Wraith away and just 3 shot you once it's done. McCree needs to be buffed *slightly* so he can E+RMB again.
>>343640425
No way, he uses them to launch himself. I rather him hurt himself on his own ammo.
>>343639710
>The biggest difference is that D.Va is a short range character that does meager damage, whereas the Heavy is the highest DPS class in TF2.
And that's the problem with D.Va. She's a tank. Not in the sense that her class is "tank", like Reinhardt or Winston... I mean literally, she drives a fucking walking tank, and it does shit for damage, and has no range. Her play style is jacked to fuck in comparison to her conceptual premise that she was given a mech suit to combat Omnics, primarily Bastion units. If she's going to be this giant, cumbersome, slow moving target with a large crit box, she needs better mid-range capabilities. That's why I compared her to the Heavy, because that's exactly what she is: a giant, slow moving target with the biggest crit-box in the game. With that in mind, her damage output is just fucked in comparison.
>>343640618
i dont see how it doing about 20 damage stops it from having utility for mobility? he shouldnt be able to just detonate a mine point blank in his face when tracer or another character closes in on him with no consequence.
>>343639534
It is 100% a nerf. Discord as is literally cannot miss even from across the entire map on a moving target despite being a projectile and is guaranteed active for at least 3 seconds. It also doesn't have any reload time, or require directly hitting an enemy with a projectile attack that is manually aimed two times in a row to get any benefits.
>>343615572
>mei buff
no
>Mcree buff
No, they finally got him where he needs to be. I've never seen a more deserved nerf than what he got recently.
>D.Va
yes
>Zenyatta
They just buffed Zenyatta by nerfing Widow's bodyshot damage. The only problem I had with the character was the noskill one shot bodyshots. They've fixed that. Zenyatta does pretty nuts damage if you can aim, his debuff is powerful as fuck, and you can compete with Mercy for raw healing if you pay attention and put yourself in good positions. Everytime I play this character I get 3-5 gold medals, and I'm not even good.
>>343640660
Not him, but he needs a nerf to his mine's damage. Like I said in my other post, his utility to damage ratio is retarded.
>>343640461
>>343640462
Shitter hivemind
She is easily the weakest character in the game apart from Dva
>>343640843
They only need to buff McCree so he can E+RMB Reaper, Genji and the "I have a survivability spell as a flanker" friendos.
>>343640786
>i dont see how it doing about 20 damage stops it from having utility for mobility?
>he shouldnt be able to just detonate a mine point blank in his face when tracer or another character closes in on him with no consequence.
These two statements are contradictory. If giving it damage does not reduce its mobility (which is does and you're retarded but that's another issue) then it wouldn't reduce his ability to mine your face. But in reality it would reduce both, which means he's now basically defenseless and completely useless the moment anyone gets line-of-sight on him.
>>343640031
By ignoring him and shooting his team. Dumb ape can't do shit.
>>343639779
And what about the other three, faggot?
>>343640843
>They just buffed Zenyatta by nerfing Widow's bodyshot damage. The only problem I had with the character was the noskill one shot bodyshots. They've fixed that. Zenyatta does pretty nuts damage if you can aim, his debuff is powerful as fuck, and you can compete with Mercy for raw healing if you pay attention and put yourself in good positions. Everytime I play this character I get 3-5 gold medals, and I'm not even good.
Basically this. Golds shooting out the butthole, literally on fire the entire match after the first 10 seconds.
>>343641012
ice wall still good
regeneration invincibility icicle is still good
health is decent
freeze ray still good
icicle launcher still good
ult is mediocre
she's a great character.
>>343641012
Mei doesn't need a buff because it would make her more toxic to the pubs and it wouldn't change MMR games. Same reason why things like Bastion and Torbjorn won't probably get buffed.
Also, I can't wait for the day where I can peek-and-shoot a Torbjorn turret.
>>343640618
It's one of the most braindead things in the game though. It has too many utilities possible shoved into one tool.
It does 120 damage, hits a large area rather than a specific spot, can be detonated midair after being thrown, can be arced, acts as a remote bomb that attaches to surfaces, knocks enemies around significantly, and knocks him away from enemies significantly (while not hurting him).
It's easier than a melee for x4 the damage along with fucking with the enemy's ability to aim at you or close the distance due to it launching the both of you away.
>>343641012
>She is easily the weakest character in the game apart from Dva
Zenyatta.
>>343641040
If they buff his Fan for some characters they have to buff it for everyone. I guess you wouldn't have noticed if you played no one but McRee, but there was nothing more maddening than losing to Mcree every single time he hit you with that fucking flashbang. I don't know if Blizzard thought it was difficult to peg people with that stupid fucking ability, but one simple, fast projectile and you immediately get a free kill on anyone who isn't in the tank category, and you could always just flashbang, fan, roll, fan to kill them almost as easily.
what if they make Rainhard´s Charge directional?
It would be far more versatile if you could reach high ground charging up
>Mercy
.5 second wind-up time for her Rez.
>D.Va
Firing no longer slows her down
>McCree
Extend flashbang stun duration so that Genji takes enough FtH bullets to kill him dead before he can just pop Deflect and faggot-skip away.
>Mei
lol
>Zenyatta
100 HP
100 Armor
Harmony Orb now has an added passive of healing Zenyatta for a % of the damage done by the person who has Orb on.
CHARACTERS THAT NEED NERFS:
>Lucio
>Mercy
>Soldier 76
CHARACTERS THAT NEED BUFFS:
>D.Va
>Zenyatta
>Symmetra
>>343641305
I don't play McQueer now or back then, but his job is literally to one shot flankers who aren't tanks. I don't think it's healthy for the game, but in the long run that's how he's supposed to be balanced.
>>343621208
What the fuck is wrong with this poor woman. Did she do this with surgery? Why is she so disproportionate.
>>343641181
>Mei is fucking awful against premades
>In a team game
Yeah, she's really shit in general, though just cus she stomps lowbie pubs she shouldn't be buffed
Face it some time in the future she is going to be buffed/reworked for the better because people will click that she has nothing to give to a team other then excelling only in 1v1's something that Reaper can do better
Stop this, just go to the general
>>343641621
You can filter them
>mccree
lol are you serious
hes still a god at mid to long range
>>343641602
I think she needs a rework, but Blizzard will probably take the lazy way out and probably buff Mei and friends, thus making solo Quick Play hell 75% of the time (arguably Competitive solo).
Zenyatta fix: he can fly now like pharah, but with no limit. Speed is unchanged.
>>343641942
>fly in the air
>shot down by widow instantly
>>343632509
Pyros can puff away ubers.
>>343641358
I can agree about the buffs. Lucio and soldier are fine though.
Mercy needs nerf on that ult.
what they seriously need to do is nerf the vertical range of reaper's ult. no reason he should be able to kill everyone when he's 30 feet up. the animation looks like it should be a mostly horizontal attack
>>343636975
He doesn't need to be an incredible healer, nor does he need to be as good as Mercy or Lucio (despite that his ult heals while theirs does not), just a bit better than he is right now, since there's essentially no reason to pick him, his healing is weak and slow, he is fragile and Discord is hard to maintain because he needs LoS.
Maybe at least his Harmony orb if not both could be reworked to have a minimum duration above the out-of-LoS fade time. As in, the orb lasts at least 10s or until the target is out of LoS for 3s. He could use a bump up to 200HP anyway, he doesn't do anything so amazing to justify his utter shit health.
>>343642201
Wraith form is OP as fuck.
>>343617786
The game has become pure shit without McCree though. Like ever since he got nerfed into the dirt we have no one outside of Winston that can reliably counter Tracer and Genji, and no one outside of Reaper that can actually deal good damage to tanks.
This is really not good for a few reasons. Reaper has become fucking mandatory in competitive because they run 1 Hero only and everyone has double tank now because why the fuck not you can only have one Reaper still.
>>343636519
Which is why he is literally 0 picked in comp games, right?
Just because you can piss on level 18 pub rando teams doesnt mean he holds a fucking candle to any other character in the game.
Reduce Mercy's ult charge to 0 whenever she's killed. She can get it stupidly quickly as it is, and it would keep teams from being fucked over when they kill her first, wipe the rest of her team, like everyone's supposed to, but she can just walk from the spawn and rez everyone before their respawn timers finish.
as someone who actually plays zenny boy
>remove healing orb
>make his health 250
>when discord is applied zens speed is increased and target is slowed
he will never compete with the other healers anyway, and the whole reason he is kept the way he is is because he can do everything
>>343641942
Best zen fix is to remove los requirements. Tag the other teams mercy with a discord orb til one of us dies. Seems fairer, at least.
>>343642539
This idea plus discord does a small amount of damage over time.
>>343641808
STOP SPOUTING THIS FUCKING MEME
HIS M1 IS LITERALLY A GIMPED VERSION OF 76'S UNLESS YOU ARE A GOD WITH 75% ACCURACY
EVEN THEN YOU ARE A 76 WITHOUT THE MOBILITY, BURST OR ULTILITY
NOW FUCK OFF
>>343638531
>>343642389
Tournaments are actually the worst way to judge viability of something.
Over the years I've seen countless things come up as "bad" while not actually being bad, in fact they were often fantastic, but more often than not these things were considered bad because they weren't being used in tournaments.
In a tournament no one is set out to play their best, they're set out for the easiest victory.
Lets say X G T and R are easy to use, in the last patch G got changed that you have to be a little more aware of your surroundings, G is no longer tournament viable because X T and R don't require you to be more aware of things than you already are.
G is still just as strong as it was before, but now it's been classified as garbage because it's no longer picked at tournaments, the reason why it's not picked doesn't matter, what matters to the fans of the tournament is if it's picked or not.
In the end, Zenyatta's tournament pickrate is meaningless, people don't pick him not because he's "bad", but because Lucio and Mercy are much easier to play.
>>343619526
Also D.Va. You can knock her out of the sky, then usually do a fair bit of damage and get the kill if you land near each other. You can even eat her ultra with the shield if you fly straight for her with it up.
>>343642626
So you Discord somebody and they eventually die unless they have constant healing? Not only that, but you negate all shield and natural health regen so Symmetra, Zarya and Mercy are extra double fucked? Nah, that is broken as all shit.
>>343642665
what is better utility than fucking flashbang you dumb fuck? a guaranteed stun on anything in the game.
>>343642423
Your Mercy can res too, it's not like there are actual healer options in the game.
>>343642853
Not him, but McQueer's role was to 1 combo kill squishy flankers even if they have the likes of Deflect and Wraith Form. Sure, his stun is good, but now it doesn't matter when he can't do his job correctly anymore.
>>343643052
but he still does? flashbang and headshot kills tracer instantly. fan does 200+ damage.
>>343642675
Are you actually retarded or is this bait?
I can't even tell.
>>343642853
Or you can just go Roadhog whose hook also stuns but has
Better Range
Lower Cooldown
More time on the stun
Pulls you towards your team so even if you fuck up on the follow up your team kills them for you
Now again, FUCK OFF
MCCREE WAS BROKEN ONCE BUT NOW THAT MEANS HE CAN NEVER BE BETTER THEN SHIT TIER EVER AGAIN?! SHUT THE FUCK UP
>>343643241
yeah dont forget
>huge billboard sized target that feeds the enemy ults in 5 seconds
>>343643149
>having to headshot a small bouncy target even while stunned is fine!
>never being able to actually kill a Reaper, Mei or Genji before they pop their defensives is fine LMAO
Or you could just go Roadhog/Reaper and actually kill them
>>343643163
>NOI!!!! NO NO!! DON'T SAY THINGS I DON'T LIKE!!!!!!!!!!
Too bad, I'm going to keep saying it.
Tournaments are a terrible way to judge the viability of heroes. >>343642675
>>343641190
>character that rewards skillful playing
>I have no idea how to change characters and counter him
>he should be nerfed
pic related, it's you
>>343643149
If you think that you might want to get informed, my friend.
>>343643339
>Ult buildup matters when everyone on their team is dead or having to run back to the objective every 20 seconds
here's your (You)
Mercy's ult has been the most retarded thing since the game's inception, and it still is. The only people defending it are butthurt Mercy players who know their shit waifu will actually be balanced and take some actual fucking thinking to play when they give that shit a cast time and a much slower charge time.
"Oh hey, my team just got their asshole torn out by three different ults because they're retarded and deserve to lose. Good thing I don't have to do anything and can stay out of the fight so I can come in after, press Q, and revive my entire team to full and give them brief invulnerability too. Hahaha, look at that, we destroyed them because their ults were all down and they were hurt. Please upvote me I worked really hard!!!!"
Mercy players are buttplug wearing faggots who think they're not playing literally the most broken and easiest fucking hero in the entire game.
Calling it now, watch her get rightfully nerfed and all those autists never play her again, and they all flock to Lucio, the next best easymode healer.
>>343643472
Not him, but Junkrat is literally a braindead version of Pharah.
>>343643446
I cant believe how bad you guys are, holy fuck
>>343615572
Nah Mercy is fine.
Lucio is broken as fuck though, barring damage amp he effectively does everything Mercy does better with even more added utility and damage.
The only difference are the Ults but they ultimately function in the same manner, Mercy's is "fuck everybody got bodied better reverse this" and Lucio's is "Oh shit they trying to body us, better ult and prevent everyone from dying".
Sure, you won't survive a full Zarya Ult into Pharah or Reaper Ult unless Reinhardt is stuck is the gravity well but the enemy team has to spend their entire wombo ult combo to kill a few members of the team.
>>343642675
Tourney players leverage their skill in the game with chara that give the best return on investment in the match theyre playing. They never, ever, thought once that zenyatta could contribute anything.
They dont pick based on ease you fucking tard.
YOU KNOW WHO NEEDS A GODDAMN NERF? JUNKRAT'S TIRE.
NOT EVEN JUNKRAT, JUST THAT FUCKER'S TIRE. IT'S A GODDAMN TIRE, YET ITS INCREDIBLY FAST, INCREDIBLY AGILE, CAN TURN ON A FUCKING DIME, CLIMB UP WALLS, DOES SIX-HUNDRED FUCKING DAMAGE SO IT CAN ONE-SHOT LITERALLY ANYBODY IN THE GAME AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HAVE THAT DUMB AS SHIT LUCIO ULT, AND THE RADIUS OF THE EXPLOSION IS TOO
DAMN
BIG
They just need to bring back FtH's damage to what it once was (70 a shot) and add a large, signifcant cooldown to it.
That way he can combo 250 HP classes at close range like he is supposed to, and he can deal high damage (but not instantly lethal) damage to tanks.
Yes we need someone else besides Reaper that can actually fight a tank at close range. Everyone and their mother runs double Tank now because of the fact that Reaper is the only one that can really shred them, which is bad.
>>343643487
i dont even know what you're saying
thats literally the facts of the matter my man
Mccree is just baddie repellent as evidenced by this retarded stance you have
>>343620257
>mercy
Decent idea, but I think a better option would be to start revive hp at half for all revived characters, increasing to full as mercy completes the animation
D.Va
Full speed on d.va guns with infinite ammo is way too strong. Maybe buff her speed while shooting a bit, but damage falloff is a bigger problem.
>McCree
Interesting idea, but I think increasing the damage on the fan just slightly is an easier and more reliable option to implement. He's still not a tank killer but can kill the weaker classes more reliably.
>Lucio
Yeah, he's pretty damn strong now. Nerfing mercy pretty much requires lucio to be nerfed
>Mei
This would make it useless in 90 percent of situations unless you give it a shitload of hp. Mei's fine as is
>Zenyatta
Pretty good idea
>Tracer
Pretty good idea
>>343643737
>"They pick based on ease"
>"They dont pick based on ease you fucking tard."
Maximum retard
>>343642675
Holy shit shut up
>>343629687
nice dude bastion
>>343643864
How is return on investment in a situation ease? Did you read, or is this shit posting?
>>343643698
>Lucio ults
>Ah, okay, we'll just wait 3 seconds and do the exact same shit we were doing
>Mercy ults
>Oh look it's an entire fresh full-health team with invulnerability
Yeah man, Lucio's ult is totally as good.
>>343643787
Shoot it.
>>343643787
I just want it to end prematurely if you kill Junkrat. That would keep people from using it to make a suicidal push with little to no downsides.
>>343643821
>>343641463
He can't combo Genji, Reaper and friends to death because he doesn't have enough damage anymore.
>inb4 "wat if their not ful healf!!!"
>>343643821
you have literally never played McCree since the nerf have you
There is no point to him, everything he does either 76 or Roadhog does much, much better.
There is a good fucking reason why McCree dropped down to just in front of Zenyatta for lowest pick in comp play you chucklefuck
>>343643737
zenyatta would be picked every time if he could stay alive for the discord, tanks are running rampant right now with no counter at all, discord shreds them very quickly. the problem is he has too little health and no mobility or survival skills to deal with it, and it makes him too risky to take.
>>343616751
Mei needs a rework. If having her in the game makes it less enjoyable for everyone then it's bad game design. She's not a huge issue and could use a small buff, but it should be a part of a reworking of her abilities
>>343643934
>Holy shit stop being right, I don't want to feel bad!
>>343643964
There is LITERALLY no other way to this say, you are asking me ease is not maximum return on investment in a situation.
>>343642675
>g had a change that required more effort, which means by necessity they were made worse to require this change in outlook
>just as strong as before
You are a fucking retard.
>>343644016
DID YOU NOT READ MY POST, NIGGA? IT'S AGILITY MAKES IT DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT IT
WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN A RIP-TIRE FALLS FROM THE SKY ON YOUR STUPID ASS AND EXPLODES FROM 10 METERS AWAY AND DOES 600 DAMAGE TO YOU
WHAT YOU GONNA DO WHEN YOU'RE WALKIN AROUND AND THIS FUCKING TIRE TURNS AT A 90 DEGREE ANGLE TO MEET YOU AT A CORNER AND BLOWS OFF YOUR FUCKING LEGS WITH 600 DAMAGE
>>343620552
This would be perfect
>>343644145
>ye ol' health and mobility meme
>completely ignoring the rest of his kit and how he's meant to be played
He only became "bad" because his orbs don't stay forever anymore, his health and mobility are 100% fine
>>343644242
>strawman
>>343644191
Is english your first language? Or are you this retarded for real?
>>343644091
classic /v/, just keep on hammering your wrong uninformed points until everyone gives up.
>>343644191
Not him, but ease is not the same as return on investment. Return on investment can include things with little ease as long as the reward is large. Case in point: Zarya, and what the star system is supposed to represent.
>>343644415
>Can't win the argument so I'll call him names!
I'm glad you admit that I'm right about Zenyatta.
>>343644276
Literally anything but the tire should be nerfed. Shit like this is probably why people disregard Junkrat being OP.
>>343644361
Its not a strawman you fucking idiot. You literally say g had a change that requires more situational awareness. WHY WOULD YOU NEED THAT UNLESS YOU RECEIVED A NEGATIVE CHANGE??? WHICH LITERALLY MEANS YOU CANT BE AS STRONG AS BEFORE?
I am glad no one, ever, will take you seriously.
>>343644191
>What character, played at high skill levels, would be best in this situation?
>The answer is literally never 'Zenyatta'
>B-but he's fine, all pro players are just shit at him!!!!
You are fucking retarded
He does only okay damage on his own, has no health, no mobility, a shit ult, and shit healing
Discord is his ONLY useful tool and he can't fucking stay alive to take advantage of it because of the above
Zenyatta is fucking garbage as he is right now. You're not some magician and the only good Zen player on the planet because you can beat pub players with him.
>>343644518
Dont waste your time on this joker. He's just shitposting for fun.
>>343643990
>He thinks reactive medicine is better than preventative medicine
>>343644276
I shoot it a lot, but if I could shoot it every time it would be a shit ult. I also play D.Va usually so a direct hit doesn't kill me, just the mech. So I sometimes just eat it to save my team.
>>343644440
>uninformed points
I think you are the one that's informed, friend ;)
>>343644518
>trying to change the subject
>>343644587
You misrepresented my argument in an attempt to make it easier to attack, it's called a strawman, and you're still trying to do so
>>343644642
Go back here >>343642675 and read my post, understand why that reasoning is wrong
>>343644361
>meme
but thats literally the problem?
this thread has really enlightened me to how stupid you guys are. its like you look at the comp pick list and dont put any thought as to why certain characters are actually picked.
>>343644838
Then elaborate, please. To justify your ridiculous fucking scenario, how can g be changed while, in your own words, "being just as strong as before"?
>>343644174
Yeah, because Bastion, Junkrat, Roadhogg and others are such a pleasure to play against, right?
>>343644361
The problem with perma-orbs is it encourages a Zen player to only peak out to toss an orb and then turtle behind a wall to avoid being killed. Players should be rewarded for using their entire kit well, so a buff to survivability of some sort should be better to a player is able to use his entire kit more actively. The best would be something like "if both orbs are active, his health becomes armor" because it encourages a player to keep his skills active as much as possible.
>>343644838
>G has been made worse, but this somehow means he's just as good.
No, your entire line of thinking is flawed.
>>343644835
>Competitive picks always looking for the easiest character
Whoa someone call CNN
>>343645180
>Bastion, the easiest character in the entire roster by an enormous margin, is second least picked
Try again, retard.
Need to nerf that faggot toblerone. Turret requires scrap to upgrade.
>>343645346
c. console player
>>343645180
>It's easier to win with good characters and harder to win with bad characters.
Shit, this might need a 60 Minutes report.
>>343645346
Nah. They need to nerf his turret's reaction so peek-and-shoot is possible. Otherwise he feels "balanced". *Maybe* nerf his ult, but that's it.
>>343645286
Anyway, back to the original point
Mccrees easy mode crutch was removed, nobody feels like learning him for real at the moment. He'll even out eventually because hes still fine.
>>343645620
It's not learning him, they nerfed him slightly too hard. His entire existence revolves around one shotting non-tank flankers, but now that role has been removed from him since most flankers have a survivability spell that counters his last 2 bullets.
>>343644882
>but thats literally the problem?
Except it's not. It never fucking has.
Zenyatta was borderline OVER POWERED when his orbs didn't have a line of sight requirement, his movement and health was NEVER a problem back then and it's not a problem now, his problem is his ability to keep his orbs on people.
>>343644935
>>343645036
Zenyatta's only change between being insanely good and being "the worst hero" was adding line of sight to his orbs, he's just as powerful as he's always been, the only difference now is that bad players do even worse with him.
>>343645036
>Players should be rewarded for using their entire kit well
And they are right now, BUT retards refuse to accept that they might be bad at something, so they demand change until Zenyatta is ruined.
>so a buff to survivability of some sort
Zenyatta. Has. No. Survivability. Issues.
You. Are. The. One. Who. Has. Trouble. Surviving. With. Zenyatta.
Stop. Blaming. The. Tool. For. The. User's. Actions.
>>343645763
Literally the fix is to give his RMB enough damage to do enough damage to one shot Reaper at 4 shots. There, he's fixed. >>343645620
mercy is in a good spot
zenyatta needs buff
d.va needs buff
hanzo needs rework (useless hero unless he gets a random headshot he never expected to get, this should not be how a character functions)
symmetra needs buff
mei needs buff
>3 weeks ago
>REEEEEEEEEEEE MEI IS OP OMFG NERF THIS SHIT
>now she needs a buff
you people are so bad at this game.
>>343645890
The orbs are never reverting back to how they were
They're gonna update around the LoS orbs, its just how it is. permanent orbs on flankers was too retarded.
>>343646006
Mei needs a rework. Buffing her wouldn't affect the higher MMRs and it would make public games even more toxic.
Symmetra is ok, please god don't buff her.
Hanzo definitly needs a rework.
D.Va/Zenyatta do need minor buffs, yes.
Mercy could use something like if she dies she loses all ult charge, but to compensate she charges it slightly faster. I might be extremely wrong here, though.
>>343645763
Just add only five more damage to his fan. That should be enough to stop tracer being able to E her way out
>>343646140
And that's a good thing.
Leave the rest of him alone, just play around with how his orbs work
>>343646180
He can 1 shot Tracer still with a well placed headshot. It's every other flanker that's the problem for McCree.
>>343646180
>>343646315
Wanted to add, his RMB needs to do 225 at 4 shots to do its job correctly considering Flashbang does 25 by itself.
