This is probably going to be the first expansion im not going to get.
The leveling was great, but its over too quick, and the end game is literally WOD 2.0 I.E
>repetitive dungeon grinding
>resource grinding
>Professions are still RNG shit, they just replaced garrison wait times with extreme node farming, and you still need your weekly grind of obliterium to upgrade them
>everyone gets one 'artifacts" completely missing the point of why the Legendary cape/ring was shit
The classes are fun at first, but then you're pretty much stuck in the trinity once again, except with classes being more dynamic and interesting, they're also restricted, which means if you're not a tank or a healer, you're screwed for slots if you're not BiS DPS.
>>342813924
>caring about WoW at all past Mists of Panderia
The game went downhill after MoP. Honestly, still the best WoW expansion to this date.
Don't bullshit yourself, you know very well you will pick it and you will enjoy it, no matter what.
'tis a curse, anon.
No game rules forever, my son
I haven't logged in for months, so I don't have to do any of that shit
feels good, and yet I suddenly feel the urge to resub the past week
They're full on retarded, now they reduced the available max camera distance console command because retards who didn't do it were at a disadvantage
>hmm maybe just allow the camera to go to the actual cap with the slider
>nope, just reduce the whole fucking thing
>>342813924
>his is probably going to be the first expansion im not going to get.
>He got Pandaria
>>342814319
shut the fuck up you retarded faggot
>>342814819
>reduced the available max camera distance console command because retards who didn't do it were at a disadvantage
What disadvantage?
>>342815128
You could see further around your character with the console command
>>342814995
>not getting MoP
>not getting the second best expac behind TBC
>>342815128
Have you not seen many raid encounters lately?
There is so much fucking ground fire and adds 5x your sizeits hard to see a god damn thing
You also have PVP where being able to see more is a major advantage, imagine league of legends if it had dota 2's view distance.
>>342815173
>>342815128
It's basically the same argument idiots make for locked FoV
>>342815173
But that's an advantage
>>342815274
OP here
The last 3 expansions were shit.
MOP especially so thanks to LFR
Why? Because end game progression was pushed aside for mindless grinding for pointless ilvl, fuck that, give me my adventure back.
>>342815312
Yeah it is, and retatds who didn't use it are supposedly at a disadvantage. Which is why they reduced it to the slider cap.
>>342815387
lol
>>342815387
Speaking of camera, what ever happened to that console friendly "dynamic" camera they were adding in.
>>342813924
All I have done in the beta is roll or transfer 1 of every class to see the class halls.
Some classes got really hosed compared to others. Warlocks, for example, get a fucking amazing intro quest and class hall, and hunters get hot garbage. I mean, its actually embarassing how shitty hunters stuff was.
So far, the best class halls and intro quests are easily
Druid
Warrior
Warlock
And the really shitty ones are easily:
Hunter
Rogue
The rest were okay, I guess. Monk was pretty meh too actually but at least the intro quest wasn't COMPLETELY phoned in like hunter and rogue were.
>>342815582
The action camera? No idea, I think it's still there.
>>342815375
You make it sound like the game hasn't been a grind for better gear since literally Vanilla.
>>342815116
Wow, you sure showed me.
>>342815673
It always has been, but they also had progression, and they didn't reset your progress every fucking patch to basically 0 with welfare gear.
I mean I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who went through mythic highmaul when it litterally did nothing to progress them.
Legion is going to be the best xpac since Wrath, bringing WoW back to the better days, and with the movie/xpac combo there is an influx of new players and returning players, bringing life back into the world. Stay mad faggots, the game is great again, you can't stop it, and you will never get your official vanilla servers.
>>342815849
Except the end game is shit still
>B-but my mythic
Still shit
>>342815387
With this logic they should disable all addons since not everyone uses every addon there is
>>342816087
Not gonna lie, I fucking hate what DBM and gearscore did to this game.
>>342816253
I agree, with DBM you just look at timers and all the shit it adds to your screen instead of the game. Gearscore was/is just on a next level of stupidity.
Just do what i've been doing.
On my hunter I equipped a level 1 bow and I camp leveling areas, as I see level 100 or so players start attacking a mob, I peg them with 1 damage, which causes the level scaling to happen and now they're getting raped by a level 110 and not even realizing it.
>>342816464
That doesn't happen
>Blizzard removing the CameraDistanceMax console command
>Says it's because the people who use it have "A competitive advantage" over those who don't
I'm looking forward to not being able to see anything when playing melee against giant ass bosses
>>342817232
Have fun raiding as melee
>>342814319
>panda fag
The game wasnt worth playing after LK. And even LK wasnt even as good as it could have been.
>>342817358
What kjind of retarded addons are this?
>>342815849
>baiting this hard
anon plz
>>342817358That's why Blizzard introduced the character outline option
>>342816032
Hurr durr you faggots who havnt beaten the game on mythic/heroic/arbitrary reskin cant say jack shit about the game not being challenging.
Have you even mythic Archiomone with 2 drakes and Heroic garrosh with 20 jizz demons dude?
CHECK MATE NOST FAGS
>>342814319
>still the best WoW expansion
>Pandaland
WEWCOME OUTSIDAH TO GRORIOUS PANDARAND!
PREEZ HEWP ABOUT TEN SOUSAND PANDA PEASANTS FIGHTA SMAWW RAYMAN RAVINGA RABBIDOS
OHHH, WHATA BIIG WEPON YOU HAVE OUTSIDAH, FOW SOMA ONE WHO COME IN PEACE -- OH! PREEZE DEFEND US FROM OUR OWN FUCKING NATURAL WILDLIFE WE SIMPLY CAN'T DO IT OURSELVES! YOUR ANGER HAS UPSET THIS LAND THOUGH!
Fuck pandas, and fuck their land
>>342813924
>repetitive dungeon grinding
What the fuck did you ever do dungeons in WoD for? Ashran gear was the best pre-raid gear you could ask for, you had zero reason to do dungeons, aside from achievements.
>>342818947
Agreed, cool scenery but fuck the people.
Also I wanted to be a mogu
>>342813924
>probably
;^)
>>342818590
Just something that works in the beta I suppose
>>342818947
I got sick of the chinese architechture and music during the first fucking zone, didn't even get a character to max level that expansion.
>>342815276
I think that they should somehow reduce the shit on the screen in raids. Sometimes you really can't see for shit.
>>342820309
Later leveling was fine but fuck the first two zones
>>342815849
Not him, but nope.
Warlords were supposed to save WoW.
Fool me once...
I hardly bought Warlords. I'm not even the least tempted or interested in Legion.
That ship has sailed.
Blizzard had one final shot and they blew it!
I feel bad for the people that work at blizzard making the art, designs and music. They are the only people putting effort into the game and improved over the years. Everything else is trash
>>342814587
I see...only ASSFAGGOTS...before me...
>>342820451
MoP leveling was the by far worst leveling experience I ever had, even if they put a lot of effort into the world with finding random stuff and the mini bosses. And that coming from someone that leveled every class during cata to max level. It was such a step back
>>342820776
The moba hype is also on a massive decline. The /vg/ thread lost like half their people to overwatch. The viewer numbers on twitch are also half what they used to be, in addition to bad balancing and the new queue system everyone hates outside dirty casuals. It's the same as WoW. They even introduced a cs:go/tf2 like chest and keys system you can buy system to milk it before it dies just recently
>>342821474
Just because people finally realized league is bad doesn't mean that games like dota 2 are suffering.
Also there are a new wave of MMOs coming out in the next 1-3 years that are using classic MMOs like EQ1, DAOC, and UO as a template to build upon instead of being shitty WOW clones.
I myself am pretty excited to see where Brad McQuaid's game goes.
>>342820734
They're also the staff that people keep praising.
Can anyone explain the issues with the current WoW? I recently started playing it because thanks to the movie the battle chest is cheaper than a dinner, I'm having fun just running through dungeons and grinding that way but I imagine it gets really boring
>>342822069
In short, the current game is totally different from what it once was and it pisses the old players off
>>342822069
The vast majority of people unhappy with WoW are all veterans who happen to really dislike the direction they took the game. If you look a little harder, you'll find all your answers.
Probably the most notable among all complaints is that, back in the day you had to either advertise in LookingForGroup or Trade to try and get a group going for a dungeon, or of course find a good solid guild that you meshed well with, and run with guildmates. In modern WoW, they've... well, basically gutted most if not all sense of community by cutting out any and all need for doing such things.
Because of the LFG and LFR, everyone can find a group for stuff in absolutely no time, and everyone will be able to see every raid and raid boss, albeit a very casual watered down version of it, in LFR. While in theory this sounds good, and generally it sort of IS a convenience because it could take up to an hour or longer to find a group if you pugged in LFG/Trade back in the day, add onto that the hour or several hour dungeon run (Depending on the dungeon, Blackrock Depths took so fucking long, but holy shit was it fun.). However, you no longer need to even know where a dungeon is on the map, because LFG just ports you straight into the dungeon with people it found for you, and of course dungeons nowadays are incredibly easy and seem like nothing compared to what they used to be. All of this mixed together sort of killed off what most saw as a pretty immersive and wondrous part of... well, just the game in general. And they aren't wrong.
Dungeons themselves are much much much easier in modern WoW too. Back in the day you used to have to utilize CC that several classes provided in order to incapacitate a mob or two in a single pull to cut down the amount of damage the tank and group took. This also made certain classes more desirable in dungeons/raids, along with other things of course, but nowadays it's pretty much just "get in there, kill shit, get loot, yay ur done".
>>342823007
Don't forget that with the need for advertising in trade on your own server gone you are less likely to make new friends with people you would otherwise be seeing all the time.
>>342822069
I'm not one to root for faggot e celebs but Preach put it well a few years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rd0-zVIBVo
>>342822797
>>342823007
Can't say I don't understand the issue, I guess as a complete newfag I can hardly see the bad parts until endgame or something
>>342823281
You start seeing them the second you log in on a brand new character
>no danger in the world whatsoever, you one hit every mob and you'll never run out of resources
>no group quests, you solo everything so minimal social interaction
>dungeons were made piss easy so you just blast through with aoe without any kind of strategy, some classes can even solo the dungeons at their level
>with the dungeon finder you're grouped up with a bunch of randoms from other servers who you'll most likely never see again
>because of that no one ever says a word so it feels like you're playing with bots
Just to name a few
>>342823136
Preach is all about raiding, he doesn't care about the many things that keeps raiding remotely interesting, he just cares that raiding isn't accessable so he can make money off of being a world firster.
You even remotely talk about the shit that made raiding a rewarding experience in the first place, the economy of consumables, enchants, gems, buffs, nope, fuck that, just raids thank you, talents, gear customization, all that has got to go, he's still whining that you can't change your talents on the fly in legion without a ridiculously expensive item or go to an inn.
He's right that the game should be difficult, but the game should be difficult from a baseline, gear should be scarce but beloved, but right now, gear is pointless, raids are boring and repetitive, and quests are grindy as fuck
>>342823281
You're new. You won't have the same issue. Any issues you have will be completely different, so you're lucky in that sense. Sucks you won't know the joys of finally getting a group together for a dungeon, heading out to the dungeon's meeting stone and waiting for someone else in your party to meet up with you so you can start summoning the rest of your party.Then some fucking prick AFKing somewhere in the time it took for you to make it out to the stone without saying he's actually going to be AFKing, so the whole group is stalled for another fucking 15 minutes before this asshole gets back and simply says "sumon pls".
>>342823116
Yeah, my girlfriend and I talk about it all the fucking time, but you legitimately do not even need to find a guild on your own server anymore. You seriously don't. All you have to do is go into Custom LFG and get into raids this way, and eventually you'll be geared and experienced with the raids that way, then just work your way up, as people even pug Heroic and easier Mythic fights. You truly only need a guild for, at best, the rest of the Mythic fights you cannot clear in a Custom LFG group. So you can effectively clear the majority of content with complete strangers, and never once are you pushed into finding a guild, working your way into a core group, spend week after week with the same people working around each other and getting a feel for how you guys play together just to get shit done and whatnot.
>>342823469
Group quests are bad in todays WOW desu, unlike before where level 60s were generally running around doing things and were more then willing to help, or people were leveling alts, it was fine, but with 100, soon to be 110 levels of content and 90% of the players at the end game, the leveling experience being a group focused one is kind of a bad idea
Really though, this stems from the problem that ever expansion makes old content obsolete so people aren't rerolling, or running around in old zones to begin with.
>>342823901
Group quests would work just as fine if the player mentality was what it used to. Today it's just max efficiency in everything and "fuck off you're in my way" kind of thinking. There's still plenty of people leveling alts but most of them just spam the ridiculously easy dungeons for xp. That as well would be fixed with the absence of LFD.
>>342821474
overwatch is a moba. sorry you had to find out this way.
>>342823802
Pretty much, I joined a social guild that raided normal and stayed there but the progression was painfully slow so I started pugging Heroic on the side and cleared all of that before we as a guild even killed Archi normal.
It's a slow step in the right direction that Mythic Dungeons are replacing Heroic as the dungeon content to do.
>WoW is so dead and gone for you and your golden days were so long ago now that you play purely out of nostalgia with a friend
if she hadn't begged me to play with her i wouldn't have bought MoP.
it's so weird, playing that game. PVP and PVE ain't what it used to be.
you used to have a chance to instantly kill someone back in the day, think about that for a second.
imagine taking a pizza and taking all the cheese off the center and putting it on the crust, then aligning the pepperoni carefully along the crust, the middle of the pizza would just be pizza sauce.
that's what Blizzard did with WoW. center of the game is all grind and then the outer teenie tiny bits of the game get all the focus and development, with little space to work with.
>>342822069
Dont waste your money on Blizzjews. Go find an old private server somewhere. Kronos or something.
>>342824662
At the very end of Wrath, I watched a Druid and Paladin duel in the Underbelly for 40 minutes straight one night. A single duel, 40 minutes.
... And nobody won. One of them eventually just logged off because neither could kill each other. Resilience was a mistake.
>>342825256
Druid and pala duels have always been like that
>>342818947
the klaxxi were cool.
>>342825294
>this
I was one of those holy paladins that fought resto druids regularly.
Druids were immortal, and even when there was some sort of danger they just ran the fuck away in travel form. Shit was frustrating as hell.
I fucking hate druids, but especially resto druids.
>>342825421
>2 paladins duel
>melee hits once every three seconds
>occasional judgment
>praying for SoC proc
>low hp, heal
>repeat
>>342823281
They aren't real problems, they're differences of opinion, that's why you don't understand them. They are being portrayed as flaws and serious issues when they're nothing of the sort. Never take anyone at face value when they try to explain the "problems" a game has, always read into what they're saying. Sometimes, there are real problems, like graphical glitches, crash-to-desktops, incredibly crude assets, etc. Other times it's just things like "the game is too hard/easy" or "I liked thing, thing is gone or changed, I like game less on principle".
>>342825575
The aggressive paladin usually lost first because he would run out of mana by consecrating and shocking.
Paladins without mana were fucked. They had no real way of getting it back.
>>342825294
>levelling a ret paladin mid-WOTLK on the Sen'jin pve server
>waiting for bangalash to spawn in STV(he was still elite)
>a horde druid shows up
>well, I got time to kill
>flag for PvP
>sure enough, he attacks me
>spend the next half hour fighting him
>eventually, his much lower levelled warrior buddy shows up, they both start attacking me
>bangalash spawns, mid-fight
>get a consecrate down, tag him
>the warrior peels off and starts killing him, not realizing I have the tag
>he dies fighting bangalash
>get the last few hits on bangalash, finally manage to get lucky with some crits and kill the druid
most satisfying duel I've ever had.the next day my paladin's name got flagged and I had to rename from Phalluss
>>342825630
>like its an opinion why WoW is shit now
Seriously, who the fuck are you trying to kid here? We all know that killing the community and sense of progression destroyed the game.
There were other factors that didnt help but they were the main ones and old players overwhelming agree on it.
Its not like we're discussing abstract fucking art here. We know exactly why WoW is shit now.
>>342822069
Hey man dont listen them. Keep playing as long as it's fun.
The fags in here are just whining because they fell in love with a specific periode of the game - And that's fine, I too like older WoW.
But that's our problem, not yours. Have fun mate.
Oh and dont fucking advise a new player to find a vanilla private server. That's like buying your kid a toy that you would want to play with, but not what your kid wished for.
>>342823802
>you legitimately do not even need to find a guild on your own server anymore
That's a nice way of saying "I'm fine with waiting six months to almost a year just to clear things people had done within the first few months". If you don't want the guild/raid experience, that's cool, but don't pretend you're getting anything like it from pugging farm bosses and getting carried. Some people do only care about epix, I despise these people. They crept in during Wrath and slowly poison guilds by dropping out whenever they get bored and/or all the shit they want. Blizzard actually did us all a favor by making the various tiers, because it shuts these people the fuck up. There's almost always something else you could get, even on farm bosses. I guess that's why you're finding groups to carry you.
>>342825869
There's a game in the works for us old fucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oNVecHjiJI
>>342813924
haven't gotten an expansion since cata
loving life ever since
don't get tricked into thinking you need WoW
it is just something to fill the void of your time.
>>342823007
>Dungeons themselves are much much much easier in modern WoW too.
You know what I find hilarious about this? When you do timewalking you will face the biggest retards who just stands in the fire
>>342814587
>muh daddy issues the story
I hate how Metzen fucked everything up. Fucking assblasted faggot.
>>342825869
Oh look, it's the kind of guy I was talking about. No, no one cares how YOU PERSONALLY feel. The community didn't die because of LFG, progression is still here, none of these things went away, things about them just changed, which, in YOUR OPINION, is for the worse.
You're right, we're not discussing "abstract art", we're discussing a game, which has many functional components and opaque design decisions that all have purposes and results, one such result being how YOU FEEL. Now we're back to how you feel, and I have to remind you again that I don't give a shit how you feel. Your feelings are abstract, but want to know something concrete? The game isn't destroyed, it's still there, people play it to this very day, just not people who are you.
>>342815849
>with the movie/xpac combo there is an influx of new players and returning players, bringing life back into the world.
yeah dude i love leveling a character and every dungeon group having a tank and healer that have never run the dungeon before
it's even better when it happens every single fucking dungeon for 90 fucking levels
t. 92 druid, 16th alt
>>342813924
I'm with you on that one, they still haven't learned at all. Still has:
>garrison bullshit in any form
>time gating, because martha can only play 2 hours a week and she should be at the same level as you
>artifact shit being the worst part of the legendary questlines, being handed something for free takes all the fun out of it
>power fantasy in an mmo AGAIN
>classes dumbed down even more
>same awful content/raid plan as WoD
>still no new bgs
>>342814319
MoP was great but it had a shit drought and some other flaws, it was on par with WotLK but inferior to BC
Hopefully Legion will end with Sargeras entering Azeroth and fucking everyone's shit up resulting in the re-origination of Azeroth and a reboot of the game without the retards currently running it.
>>342826589
>power fantasy in an mmo AGAIN
This is my main gripe to be honest
>Greetings, commander
EVERYONE is the fucking commander
>>342826589
>reboot of the game without the retards currently running it
You really think this? They are 100% already working on the expansion.
>There are people who never got to see the original Ravager
The proc effect was so damn fun to watch
So sad they didn't keep the proc on the version that replaced it in pandaland
>>342813924
You guys wont be happy with anything. Legion is the best expansion since WoTLK. Not as good as WoTLK, but...it's something.
>>342826739
Leveling a Shaman using Ravager was fun. Procs fucking everywhere.
>>342826589
Its time gated so neets aren't blasting through everything, that way they can't whine and ask where the content is when they still have shit to do. If they could without time gates they'd raid for a bit them cancel sub till next patch
>>342826756
>better than pre nerfed cata
I don't think so also overall WoTLK was extremely shit. Literally cut content and rehash the expansion with the worst story rape in they entire franchise.
>>342825869
>which has many functional components and opaque design decisions
Poor decisions such as the ones I mentioned. We saw the cause and effect ourselves. You dont have to tell me its my fucking feelings that are causing me to say this. I seen the nosedive the game took after several "opaque design decisions"
>The community didn't die because of LFG
What did it die from then? If you think its still there then youre in some sort of denial.
>progression is still here
What kind of progression? Blaze through LFR in a day or two and beat the game?
>The game isn't destroyed, it's still there, people play it to this very day, just not people who are you.
Its at an all time low since Vanilla. Half the players are chinks.
How can we be completely objective if there arent concrete metrics? We dont have to fucking be because we were there and know what damaged the game the most.
Suck more cock Blizzdrone. You're fucking delusional. You're the type of cuck cunt that killed the game for the rest of us.
A fucking devils advocate white knight apologist. Absolute scum.
>>342826723
Enemies tough as nails
No equipment power creep
Finite resources
Lots of stats to manage
No in-game maps
No flying or instant teleports to make the world irrelevant
Open dungeons (not instanced just for your party)
Specialized classes
I just hope people discover the game so it's not just me playing
>>342826080
They already made one for all you annoying fucks, it's called Wildstar. Turns out that players crying for that type of MMO didn't actually want it.
>>342826818
>Windfury dropped by shaman in group
>Charge in as arms warrior
>Turn into a living hurricane
Alliance would never know such joys
>>342826915
But Wildstar was nothing what I wanted. It was a shitshow of crap on the ground and limited keybinds with an absolutely awful attempt at humorous writing.
>>342826915
They didn't want those gold req atunements and when the devs finally got rid of them everyone was gone
>>342826756
>anything with LFR/LFD
>Good
How about no, you just don't get it.
Note: I always thought there should have been better solo content, especially since professions kept getting shittier and shittier as years went on, but to turn raids, the one thing that should be LOTS OF PEOPLE FIGHTING BIG ASS DRAGONS into solo optional garbage, while the rest of the game was turned into "hard mode" of that same content, the game went to shit.
The only good things to hpapen in recent years are hard quests, like Green Fire, and thats pretty much it, Legion's end game seems to be doubling down on everything wrong with the game, namely being grinding with no goal.
You can't be the best on your server if your server is dead, you can't be best in the world because people who do it as a job get there first, you can get amazing gear because everyone else gets it too, or will next patch where you have to start over.
Its not the destination, its the journey, but new wow's design is about blowing the journey in less then a week, then expect you to grind for the sake of grinding.
>>342826820
With mythic+ and raiding not being opened at launch those neets are going to blast through it anyway because there's nothing else to focus on.
>>342826461
New players, the horror.
You retail fags should be blessing your lucky stars that the movie brought in fresh blood. Because legion sure ass hell won't.
>>342827272
You have artifact power and the new daily system. Like it or not you will have to use the class hall.
NEW CLASS HYPE
>>342826324
>daddy issues
where?
his relationship with his father was great, they loved each other
Arthas just wanted to protect Lordaeron at any cost, the cost of killing Mal'ganis was his soul, so he became edgy
but it wasn't a daddy issue story
>>342827272
Considering that there is no progression and blizzard knows it, of course there won't be any progression, just artificial gating.
thats why I wait until the end of the expansion, buy it on discount, play through the story content, and quit thenERP in goldshire on a trial account, they're better writers then metzen
>>342827496
I'm unironically hyped as fuck.
How are Mages and Warlocks looking in Legion?
Just want to be a fucking wizard again man.
>>342827496
>destroyed what warlocks are (an already lame class to begin with and you take out there cool shit? )
>it's just rogue again
Listen, I've always been a fan of don't roll rogue, we're full fuck off. But demon hunters make as much sense as necromancer
>>342827715
Mage is mage. Warlocks are looking pretty cool though.
>>342827715
Terrible just like the rest of the expac.
>>342826326
>The community didn't die because of LFG, progression is still here, none of these things went away, things about them just changed, which, in YOUR OPINION, is for the worse.
>>342813924
>"The Emerald Nightmare — The first of two introductory raids, The Emerald Nightmare finally makes its appearance in World of Warcraft. We climb into the tree itself and cross into the reality of the Dream, as opposed to the dungeon where we are just at the roots of the World Tree. While here, we will see glimpses of the Emerald Dream. Part of the raid involves pursuing Cenarius and the raid will culminate in the battle with Xavius."
Sounds kinda fun?
>>342827512
Yea it was retard the TFT story was never about his father yet they forced that shit in WoTLK. Instead of Arthas and Ner'zuhl becoming a new being. They forced this shit le Arthas is holding back the Undead and he was totally not evil plot.
>>342813924
>This is probably going to be the first expansion im not going to get.
Sadly this is also the case for me.
Actually I got them all but with wotlk something else happened - although I bought it, only played for 3 - 4 days until I quit it. The game felt changed and shitty. Then I joined mid cataclysm and ... even tho I played 1 month It was fucking horrible - worst stage wow ever went to.
Then Pandaria was hella-fun and WoD finally managed to make me not give a shit about wow anymore. ( Although leveling in WoD was memorable )
ITT: muh community faggots
it's almost amazing how every single one of you always mentions the upsides of having no LFR/LFD, with "muh immersion" and "muh community" being at the forefront, while never devoting nearly as much time to talking about the downsides of the exclusion of said systems
>oh man, our tank just left because he had to go pick up his brother just after we killed the first boss in mana tombs
>healer, can you hearth back to shattrath and start recruiting?
>15 minutes - 1 hour of waiting
>you either find a tank or more party members leave
>when you finally find a replacement, you feel the need to finish the dungeon fast after all the time you've waited, instead of taking your time to finish it for "muh immersion"
>2 hours later, you've finally finished the entire dungeon
i don't like modern WoW very much, but if you're one of the cavaliers proudly advocating for the removal of LFR/LFD (maybe LFR can go), then please consider going to fucking kill yourself, because chances are it would spark an outrage where people would complain that no LFD isn't convenient enough, just like how they complained that having no flying mounts in draenor was not convenient enough
>>342813924
Legacy servers when
>>342828097
fuck off, nobody here shares your factually incorrect opinion
>>342828097
b-but at least in that 15-60 minutes of waiting we actually got to talk to our remaining group members!
>>342828184
how about you try refuting it instead of responding with a blank statement, faggot
>>342828097
I agree. I've played since vanilla and while LFR is cancer LFD are great. Mythics still require you to find people so people have nothing to complain about.
>2016
>still playing WoW
I played Everquest for 12 years but at one point I realized I had to move on. The past can't come back, just let go and remember the good times.
>>342828097
i was never a community fag, i liked pugging 5 mans a lot though.
the old days were just better. you could zone out and pvp because people were outside. you could queue up for BGs and then just afk out whenever because no AFK penalty.
you can't do that anymore because of LFG.
what LFG killed is more detrimental than what it fixed.
>oh cool i can finally find a group for that pointless 5 man now and do it 20 times in one day, awesome, fun
>>342828217
there's nothing to refute, you intellectually inferior piece of shit.
>>342828097
I agree, I don't have time to wait for others anymore, I'm not a teen so my free time is valuable, waiting for an hour for a q, mainly heal or tank is unacceptable. flying is fine only after they've finished leveling and seen the zones. PS fuck this faggot >>342828184
>>342828285
>Mythics still require you to find people so people have nothing to complain about.
holy shit lmao
>>342828359
Get him fido!
>not playing on kronos
>giving money to blizzard
кeкc
>>342828097
It's not our fault you're a retarded mongoloid who never made friends. That thing only happened in the first 20-25 levels. After that you made friends that you'd do instances with regularly.
>>342826863
The community didn't die, your ability to make connections with other people died.
>>342813924
>>342813924
Can't waitttttt
I won a Legion beta key, and it's actually pretty good. Quests are top notch, zone design is beautiful, music is great. Don't know how it'll hold up in the end.
>>342828459
>friends are offline, can't do dungeons
Wowee such a great argument champ.
Fuck off im not sitting in a capital city begging people to come tank or heal.
>tfw banned for 4 months
Do you think Blizzard will relent and unban me when the xpack hits if I ask nicely?
>>342828443
I've tried kronos in the last 2 days, it's full of retarded kids of both horde and alliance side.
Literally cancer, alliance compared to horde has gold selling bots spamming day and night the chat and even more cringe texts in global chat.
Literally people are autisitc and refuse party invites for quests where kills are shared, they rarely speak and lose interest in social activities once their goals are reached - literally retail drones in vanilla experience..
>>342828097
how about bot playing on a dead server
>>342814587
The instances that launched with ICC are still the best dungeons in my opinion, in terms of fun and lore.
>The first time running from The Lich King.
wew lad
>>342828560
Yea it is the best World of Warcraft expansion please buy it.
>>342828459
i did make a few friends (though i started playing in early BC so people searching for 1-60 dungeon groups were a rarity, at least to the best of my memory; but even then you can't rely entirely on a group of friends to always be there for you to piggyback on and say "hey can you come and tank/heal this dungeon real quick"
in the end, it's an inconvenience for someone
>>342828384
>I agree, I don't have time to wait for others anymore
>I
>I
>I
The argument is that the game is ruined, not whether there exists an individual on the entire planet that believes these changes are positive, there obviously are, i.e you and a few others. But the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of wow players dislike the changes of recent expansions, this is a FACT
>>342828560
>Don't know how it'll hold up in the end
This is exactly how I felt about WoD when I was in the beta. And it definitely did not hold up at the end game. I was even part of a mythic guild and it took sheer willpower to show up to the raids. I can only do some many "instant death" raid mechanics before I start to lose my mind.
>>342828586
How did u get banned?
>>342814729
fucking same, since i saw 7.0 on the ptr i just want to sub again, been clean and sober for 8 months
>>342822069
>Can anyone explain the issues with the current WoW?
Don't listen to any of your replies except this one. The real reason is that we all lost our friends/guild that we used to play with, and there is no going back.
We will never have our old raiding guilds back where everyone had fun raiding and was just shooting the shit.
Plus making new friends/guildmates is hard. Especially when most of us are on now dead servers since everyone always stacks on high population servers.
>>342828097
That's why you make a list of people you group with and friend those who are reliable steadfast players that aren't prone to disconnecting and don't fuck up.
the introduction of LFR meant raids had to become easy enough on their base level challenge to reward retard pugs that can only manage basic strategies, this introduced dungeon difficulty which in turn caused blizzard to not release raid content but caused them to try to satisfy the community with just 2 raids repeated 4 times through difficulty sliders.
Literally the biggest problem with WoW is all its longevity community features are out, there's no reason to talk to anyone on your server because you can just LFD and group with crossrealm randos you'll never talk to again after that 1 run.
This is what killed the longevity of the game in favour of getting in as many casual retards as possible and pandering to them to the point where any reason to play the game seriously goes out the window.
>>342828443
Kronos is overpopulated and the community is fucking retarded, everybody competes for questmobs you have to kill nobody groups up and everyone acts like an autistic meme spouting retard. I've seen your /vg/ threads and trust me they're a bigger reason to avoid kronos than any scripting problem or latency issue they might have.
This game started to die mid Lich King
>>342828779
I did some minor botting when the ban wave hit.
>tfw I get a 6 month ban but my friend who's a hardcore commercial botter (sells gold for money) got away scot-free
>>342815791
>Muh 1%
>Muh poopsock
No body cares. Either they can make the content accessible to the majority of the player base, or they can just not make the content. It makes no sense to make content for a ludicrously small percentage of the player base.
MAX LEVEL CONTENT
Vanilla
5 dungeons (these are substantially larger than BC dungeons and onward)
7 raids (55 bosses total) Raids had one difficulty level
7 world bosses
3 battlegrounds
Limited max level quests mostly related to attunements or reputations
Many long rep grinds available but for limited rewards
Also had the AQ gate opening world event
Burning Crusade
16 dungeons , heroic mode available for each
9 raids (52 bosses total) Raids had one difficulty level
2 world bosses
1 battleground
2 new races
Dailies introduced. These quests don’t vary and were related to reputations. Other quests were mainly attunement related
Quite a few rep grinds available
Wrath of the Lich King
16 dungeons, heroic mode available for each
9 raids, naxx and onyxia’s lair were rehashed (54 bosses total) Raids had two difficulty levels
0 world bosses
3 battlegrounds
1 new class
Lots of dailies available, slight variations in the ones you could do
Quite a few rep grinds available
Introduced the achievements system
Introduced legendary questlines
Cataclysm
14 dungeons, heroic mode available for each. 4 dungeons were rehashes
6 raids (30 bosses total) Raids had two to three difficulty levels
0 world bosses
2 new races
3 new battlegrounds
Lots of dailies available including ones for professions, variation was more significant
A handful of reputation grinds available
Introduced archelogy
Revamped the Vanilla zones with new quests and changes to the geography
Introduced Transmogging
Continued with the legendary questlines
>>342828865
No, you wont.
LFD and LFR would work much better if they were just for your own server. Server merges would take care of the dead servers so they still have a decent pool of players.
>>342828846
>>342828587
i have never visited the /vg/'s threads to much but until now i had a completely different experience,people grouped up with me and weren't obnoxious.
>>342828975
Yeah, you're probably right. Still worth a try though.
>>342828959
Mists of Pandaria
9 dungeons, heroic made and challenge mode available for each. 3 dungeons were rehashes
6 raids (42 bosses total) Raids had three to four difficulty levels
15 scenarios, 6 heroic modes available
9 world bosses
2 battlegrounds
1 new race
1 new class
A handful of reputation grinds available
Lots of dailies available, variation was about the same as Cataclysm
Introduced the universal legendary questline
Introduced pet battles
Introduced a special rare hunting system
Warlords of Draenor
8 dungeons, heroic and challenge mode available for each. 1 dungeon was a rehash
3 raids (30 bosses total) Raids had four difficulty levels
4 world bosses
1 battleground
Lots of dailies available, variation a little higher than Cataclysm
Introduced garrisons with a special garrison questline and invasions
A handful of reputation grinds available
Continued with a universal legendary questline
>That odd feeling when Mists of Pandaria had the most high end content
>>342815591
How's Paladin? Also I figured hunters were getting good shit, with the FPs and inventing a new faction.
My problem with making friends today is due to the change in internet culture. Everyone is a fucking meme spouting annoying idiot and I haven't even had trade chat on for a year now.
>>342829028
I got told to fuck off when inviting people to kill a quest mob that drops a quest item for everyone in the party.
then later I got put on ignore for inviting this mage that constantly fireblasted mobs to tag em but then expected other players to kill the mobs, we were in a group of 3 and he refused to join party 4 times, then he died and he put all of us on ignore while spamming /y
Ninja looting in 5 mans I have encountered in 3 out of the 6 runs I've done on kronos so far
when your population is that high the amount of retards you get also increases exponentially
>>342828846
>Literally the biggest problem with WoW is all its longevity community features are out, there's no reason to talk to anyone on your server because you can just LFD and group with crossrealm randos you'll never talk to again after that 1 run.
that's an extremely corrosive mindset to say the least, because provided the people who got paired with you in LFD/LFR aren't bots or speak english, you can almost always incite some kind of discussion
sometimes i don't even have to try; i open up with "hey folks how's it going?" and two party members will carry on from there
of course, there's the point where you might come across as overly social, but speak truthfully; have you ever even tried to start a proper conversation with the people who get grouped up with you in LFD?
>>342829064
>Raids had four difficulty levels
Why? Always thought this was stupid. Just do a normal for "LFR" content and a Heroic for progression groups.
Do they still do 10 and 25 man stuff? Is that the reason for four? Last played in Wrath and I can't even remember that shit.
>>342823007
This is why I'm excited for Legion and Mythic dungeons.
>>342829374
That's nothing compared to the number of sub-difficulty levels challenge mode offers in Legions
>>342829374
Wrath introduced 10-man and 25-man of the same raid.
Bc introduced 10-man raids with Karazhan and Zul-Aman
>>342829071
holy is better, ret is almost like WOD with a couple of more skills, prot is dumbed down like every tank
>>342829470
you mean the mythic+?
I hope it isnt just a raw increase of health&damage for mobs
>>342824174
Okay. Just like Age of Empires is a MOBA, right?
Blizzard hates competition
Blizzard hates gratification
Blizzard hates fun
>>342829374
>just do a normal for "LFR" content and a Heroic for progression groups
Normal is normal, LFR is "I just want to see the story" mode. The gear is literally worse than dungeons and doesn't look as good as any of the other gear. If you have a problem with LFR then you're just splitting hairs, it's literally 100% optional.
>>342828681
show me some census data or any sort of proof, or look up the word fact :^)
>>342829482
Nigga you didn't even answer my question, I'll just google it.
>>342829470
Yeah that sounds stupid.
>>342829368
>I think chatting in a LFD/LFR creates a community.
Kill yourself
>>342829374
At the moment it's like this
Looking for Raid, Normal and Heroic which caps at 25 players but scales from 10-25 players. The other difficulty is Mythic which is specifically designed for 20 players.
>>342829651
In legion LFR is going to be giving tier sets
>>342829368
yes but the point is there's no motivation to do so. I've played wrath every 5 man I did through LFD tool was a mindless zerg fest with literally nothing being said except for the occasional tank/healer bitching about pace. In cataclysm I experienced mainly the same thing.
I always try to start a conversation with a simple, "hey there" which got no response followed by the tank chain pulling 5 pack so everyone could AOE down everything for free with wellfare t10 (wrath of the lich king)
the only communication I got in 5 mans in cata was "sheep square, fear diamond" and that was all the interaction people had.
The point is there is no incentive or reward for socialising with those crossrealm in 5 mans, it used to be that you would profile yourself in 5 mans and the way you acted/performed, the way you profiled yourself back then would increase your chances for getting into say premade battleground groups (for honour grinding) or it would get you into raiding guilds.
Now there's no need to go through all that since you can just PuG raids, I pugged ICC all the way up to lich king heroic, and ICC heroic wasn't exactly the the most impressive dungeon besides heroic lich king everything was a bit of a pushover.
>>342829752
not at all what i'm saying
i notice a lot of people say that "LFD/LFR drained all of the community out of the game", but they never mention how they themselves try to go out of the way to socialize with other people
>>342829790
That aren't at all equal to Normal, Heroic or Mythic.
>>342829778
I feel like normal should be removed. Heroic should be for softcores, mythic should be for serious raiders
>>342829573
There's all sorts of crazy modifiers but generally they are based around health and damage
>>342829850
no but chatting to people you are likely not to see or talk to again because of them being on a different server means that there's 0 chance for any sort of community to arise from LFD/LFR
>>342829854
If its got a good bonus it normally outdoes pieces with higher ilevel
>>342829810
you raise some fair points, especially in regards to the lack of incentive to make a name for yourself, and although it might never revert to that state, there's a chance crossrealm is going to be brought down a notch because of how many people are abusing it to realmhop
>>342830076
you might hit it off with a person in a LFD and add them as a battletag friend; i haven't met a lot of people that way beyond making 2 battletag friends
>>342829881
I agree with this, actually just make it like FF14, Their progression seems like Heroic > Mythic with Boss/Normal being side content/alt way of getting gear.
I think my beef is instead of making 4 difficulties for one raid they could make 3 raids that matched the same difficulties + be able to look like you have god damn content in your game instead of the same boss fights 4 times with additional content.
>>342830179
If the stats now are anything to go by, dungeon gear is still better. It's just so that LFR people can have their interesting effects, it's still abysmal gear for any tier beyond LFR.
>have warden faction
>still cant get their armor for my night elf warrior
reeeeeee
>>342829790
That's not true. Actually, LFR gear is going to be lower ilvl than Mythic 5-man gear and titanforged world quest gear, so there's going to be even less reason to bother with it, outside of taking in the story and lore.
>>342830361
Seriously? That's retarded.
>>342830361
Warden class confirmed for next expansion then
>>342830361
>keeping the remotely interesting armor designs for NPCs
Well it's blizzard, so what do you expect?
>>342830520
To be honest I wouldn't mind this. I mean what are some future classes they could add? We already have summoner/death themed classes with DKs and Warlocks so any kind of Necromancer is out. We have 4(4!) leather classes now with DH so anything with leather is also out of the window.
>>342830252
The effects can still be incredibly good, warrior t18 4p was insane, and paladin 4p was also pretty good. Raw stats don't neccessarily mean its better.
>>342830648
More mail classes please.
I'm tired of getting ugly hunter sets and having to resort to shaman armor to look somewhat appealing.
>>342830410
I've been watching every beta build and looking for new items, no sign of it.
WoWhead database just lists some standard faction rewards under them. A nice looking tabard and a warden-inspired owl that looks neat, then some generic gear or whatever, MoP/Cata style.
I understand getting the 3d cape and shit might be a bit much for one armour set that would only look good/make sense on one race/gender combo but fuck. WoD had an over-saturation of human/orc armours
so, any old school MMOs coming out?
>>342830621
>>342830621
>keeping the remotely interesting armor designs for NPCs
>Blizzard gives the option for players to have the armor
>GG BLIZZARD NO PLAYER OR NPC IS UNIQUE ANYMORE
The grass is always greener huh?
>>342830235
Yeah but there's not really like a crossrealm chat function you can use to keep your pug grouped up, really at this point they should consider cross realm guilds so people who mainly find people through LFD/LFG can group up together more regularly.
But even then back in the day a lot of the game was based around you socialising and getting into communities, the game itself was based around it with group and elite quests being sprinkled throughout your lvling from 1-60 and even from 60-70. This forced many players to group up and even in the early stages of the game you'd probably be pushed into a lvling guild or a social guild of some kind which would become your part of the community.
Really I just want legacy servers because I know WoW now is a completely different game than what it used to be and I want that old game back, I don't think many players playing retail now and enjoying it would care for the vanilla experience but vice versa I also think many players that would want the vanilla experience really don't care about retail WoW anymore.
>>342813924
I'm still bewildered that people are playing this since WotLK. I stopped after BC with no regrets.
What a joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdAgCrH76oo
>>342827715
Fire mage and Demonology are pretty fucking good. Affliction, Arcane and Frost are also good. Destruction is disapointing.
>>342830702
>ugly hunter sets
This bothers me. How fucking hard can it be to make a decent looking hunter set? They're always the worst looking tier sets.
>>342830773
>GG BLIZZARD NO PLAYER OR NPC IS UNIQUE ANYMORE
No one gives a shit if NPC have unique armor or not you deranged Blizzdrone.
>>342830847
What's wrong with destro?
>>342830954
I don't know the specifics but apparently destro became an "RNG shitshow"
>>342830812
>recruit a friend
>2 rare and expensive XP potions
>full heirlooms
Not sure where you're getting that.
>>342830773
wardens have been shoved down our throats in this expansion, we've also seen plenty of them in the 4.2 patch in the firelands daily hub and maiev herself is back for illidan's dick.
Limiting the armour to a certain race/gender and then providing a horde alternative for say...Forsaken. Would be reasonable
>>342813924
I'm not finding many of the specs fun, they went on and on about class fantasy yet some are now devoid of any flavour at all. Monk is boring a fuck, everything that made it interesting and different has been removed. With the exception of bear tank none of the thanking specs feel good or fun. Shadow Priest could have been fun until they added a long ass cast time to voidform making the super clunky. Copied over my rogue and went through the spell book several times hoping to find something fun to press.
Even if the leveling and content is awesome I can't see me lasting very long with this expansion as class design is a fucking joke. Even idiots should be insulted at the uninspired simplification.
>>342830812
Just grind a month to level in one day.
>>342830917
A lot of it stems from some fabricated vision of the art director (or whomever is in charge of the concepts for class sets) and the obsession of excluding every single hunter set from having a full-faced helmet.
Not even joking, a lot of the sets from WoD would have been pretty passable but they're so insistent on having that awkward gap from your nose to your chin which doesn't fit at all. I mean, there's a reason why hunter t4-t5 (I believe it's called demon hunter) is among the most popular hunter sets.
>>342831060
Take away the XP bonus and 1-100 still only takes roughly a third of the time it took to powerlevel 1-60 at the end of vanilla with insanely efficient questing.
On top of that, they never even had to leave the starting area until like L90.
>anon figures out MMOs are terrible
great thread, op
>we need to keep people playing for the whole expansion
>make it so they need to grind for 6 months to max their weapon! besides going every 2 hours back to a table so you sent followers to missions!
>>342831205
Actually grind more than a month - they also had heirlooms... a started would have to grind for 3 month to get on that level, if he's really good 1 - 2 months.
So that he could level a character in 5 hours.
Alternatively just get raf without potions, heirloom and shit and level to 100 in 3 - 5 days of few hours invested daily.
I mean you could even without heirlooms reach 90 in a less than 10 hours.
That's how I leveled all my alts - rafed myself and dual boxed.
>>342830812
>Level to 100 in 5 hours*
>Oh but we spent hours upon hours farming gold and exp potions, but that doesn't really count, does it? :^)
>>342831254
They stacked the exp buffs to be almost 10x normal exp. That and they had a lot of heirlooms and other stuff to put out a lot of damage.
What kind of playstyle will tank Demon Hunters have? Im gonna stick with Brewmaster monk but im curious
>>342831385
Thing is using real money you can bypass that - either buy level boost directly or buy gold from blizzard or Chinese sellers ( they sell muuuch cheaper ).
You can use gold to buy heirlooms and potions.
So all it takes is credit card really and you can do it from scratch in one month every single class on level 100.
Or in one day if you're rich and buy a level boost for each.
>>342831385
i leveled my last dk in 4 days
i did it FUCKING queuing to pvp
no pots or gold used
>>342826080
You expect me to go from WoW to this hot garbage?
At least WoW looks good jesus christ
>>342831689
>that pic
i have to bring it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWlH8PTijzA
>>342831205
>>342831359
>>342831385
>>342831530
See: >>342831254
Say just for sake of argument it takes twelve times as long for a new account, that's still less than 3 days /played time, and you still don't need to leave your starting zone until 90.
>>342831689
Demon hunter, in all its 3.. sorry, 2 specs is designed to be the easiest class by a longshot. It is just there to let new people pick the game up with a 100 and join the endgame. Both specs are insultingly easy and have no depth what so ever.. even compared to shit like Ret.
>>342813924
>I'm not going to get the latest expansion for "things people that quit have been saying for years"
Why didn't you listen when we told you?
>>342828817
>most of us are on now dead servers since everyone always stacks on high population servers.
This is almost the crux of the issue. There's literally no reason to stay on your own server, it's simply better to be on a bigger one.
It's sad, I miss when there were genuine little communities.
>>342831530
So it took them a bit less than 5 hours with 10x XP, that's still nothing. Let's say you're alone and don't have any gear, maybe you'll spend 70 hours to get to 100. It took me 2 months in vanilla to get to 60 with 8 hour days and another month to get the gear for MC.
>>342828097
I'd be okay with LFD if you needed to actually find / be at the dungeon to queue up. Why not just make it selectable at the summoning stone outside of every instance?
>>342831851
Wtf - what's your point, In two of my posts you selected - I was not even comparing anything with vanilla.
>>342832259
Point is that leveling in WoW has become a bad joke.
>>342831917
Ok but what kind of playstyle will the tank spec have? Blocking based? Dodging? Self-heals?
>>342822069
you still gotta pay 15/mo to do the same content for 14 months straight zozzle
>>342831689
You generate soul fragments that heal you. Then you consume them using pain when you need it. You also have demon spikes, Empower brands and fiery brand on a short cooldown to smooth out damage and Sigils that are really useful to control mobs. Meta is, unsurprisingly, pretty fucking powerful. They are pretty fun once you get the hang of it.
>>342827272
they're gonna level every alt, collect every treasure, make lots of gold, collect more gay secret mounts, explore achievement, trust me, those neetkuns never stop then continue their weekly transmog runs
>>342832337
Why because it doesn't take 3 - 6 months for a normie to reach 60 instead it takes less time allowing a window for normal life?
>>342828097
forreal, you also had to spent at least 300 hours real time to level in vanilla, nigga it took me like 6 months and I hit 60 and joined a guild and half the guild doesn't have an epic mount, I leveled a druid too, so I was destined to be a HEALER FOREVER UNTIL AQ40 CAME OUT
>>342821760
>Guy who fucked up Vanguard, was too pussy to man up and attend his staff's parking lot firing, and got demoted
Have fun with that.
>>342830520
>Legion introduces Demon Hunter class
>"All right heroes! With the new demonic threat we're facing we need to employ the help of the Demon Hunters we once imprisoned!"
>Next Expansion introduces the Warden class
>"Okay heroes we fucked up. Demon Hunters coming back was a bad idea. We didn't realize nothing had changed between them being imprisoned and us releasing them. Want to be a Warden?"
>>342832717
Lil' bit like a DPS tank like monks it sounds like. Might check it out but i cant bring myself playing an elf
>>342832971
Unfortunately the "low level" content is designed for certain levels in mind and entire zones become flyover country. By increasing the leveling speed, you're diminishing exploration and adventure by focusing on speed.
It took those normies 3-6 months but they have probably gone to EVERY zone by then just to have enough quests. Their experience is ideal.
>>342830361
Would wear in a heartbeat and it fucking hurts that it's not there. Race specific transmog gear would be great.
>>342833062
>forreal, you also had to spent at least 300 hours real time to level in vanilla, nigga it took me like 6 months and I hit 60
Do you legit have blackouts or something?
>>342833560
What are you trying to say?
>>342832971
Vanilla took somewhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, and that was highly dependent on someone's ability to multitask quests.
Now it takes less than a week for anyone and has next to nothing to do with player skill - just don't be so retarded that you wipe out your own team in instances.
>>342833776
3 weeks for vanilla, one week for wod. Sorry, not all of us are Neetkuns
>>342833062
>you also had to spent at least 300 hours real time to level in vanilla
Joana leveled a Troll hunter from 1-60 in 6 days 20 hours /played time - ~164 hours. Powerlevelers managed to get consistent sub 8 days before him though.
>>342813924
Sounds like you want to play wow that's not wow.
>>342827737
Demon hunter has absolutely nothing in common with Rogue
>>342833776
Not just skill. Class and spec also made a huge difference in how fast you could level. Want to level as a holy priest well enjoy wanding shit to death. If you had friends to help also made a huge difference. Playing on a PVP realm also could slow things up, some days Stranglethorn could be a war zone and you could be trying to level there all day but get sod all done.
>>342833921
>hunter
>mage
easiest shit to level. Try leveling a "feral druid" to 60 and not knowing the perfect quest route by a speedrunner. Doing instances and random quests that made you go all the way to arathi highlands. Keep is mind we're talking about everyone who is playing vanilla for the first time. Shut the fuck up with this world record shit, go take an argument class because you're pretty much saying "ha this fag beat zelda in 10 minutes, why does it takes you 24 hours nerd"
>>342813924
You are going to buy it, otherwise you wouldn't have made this thread.
You are uncertain, but all the bullshit /v/ is spewing right now in this thread makes you go
>Oh but /v/ is so fucking bullshit, I love WoW and it makes me happy, I'm gonna buy Legion.
Then you end up crying in the corner for being such a stupid faggot.
>>342833282
Imagine vanilla wow with instant level 60 boost in store that gives nothing except gold - no armor, no anything - just level.
It would satisfy everyone.
>>342834265
That's a stupid idea
>>342815375
>MOP especially so thanks to LFR
Literally all they need to do is make LFR as hard as Normal and not teleport people to the instance.
The LFG system is better than its ever been but nobody ever uses it
>>342834197
>mage
>easiest shit to level
Warlocks are the only other class that really managed to be on par with Hunters.
Hunter > Warlock >>> Mage > Druid ~ Paladin ~ Priest ~ Warrior ~ Shaman > Rogue
>>342833776
You are right actually to level in a normal manner ( 1 - 3 months for few hours of gameplaly daily ) all it took was a somehwat plan for zones to acess at specific levels, a basic knowledge of map and travel system - and the ability to multitask quests.
Because it's tricky, you get 2 quests in cave - spend 15 minutes to clear it, when you get out you get two more quests in the next camp to kill a single mob at the end of the cave, all that could've been covered if you had a habit of checking the whole zone for quests before starting and carefully reading together all quests texts and trying to picture a plan.
I really want a non-toxic vanilla server... is there any other except kronos? Will blizzard eventually make legacy servers?
>>342834265
tfw you didnt want to level an alt because it took fucking forever so then you found about private servers saving 200+ hours of grinding just to play one other class FUCK THAT
This is one reason why I didn't understand how WoW was popular. You couldn't experience other classes, now we can talk shit about gw's instances and no free movement, but I enjoyed being able to play all classes at max level in pve and pvp
>>342834132
>Playing on a PVP realm also could slow things up, some days Stranglethorn could be a war zone and you could be trying to level there all day but get sod all done.
I loved that desu.
My first character was a NE rogue on a pvp server, and dealing with Astranaar horde raids was half of the fun.
>>342834352
How would it affect you?
It would make me and many others to play it again - if a legacy server is released.
Otherwise a huge chunk of adult playerbase is instantly gone.
Or forever stuck at leveling and probably will quit before reaching level 50
It adds nothing to economy, it only allows some players to enjoy the game, and just creates a higher player base.
>>342834395
People just use it to hop, really annoying. Or as I'm seeing a lot of now, as a billboard to sell raid boosts for lazyshits who find trying all to troublesome.
>>342813924
Why would anyone discuss this?
I am at a loss, seriously.
It's the SAME FUCKING SHIT REPACKAGED AND SOLD TO YOU, AGAIN, TO GET YOU TO KEEP PAYING
THEY STOPPED INNOVATING LONG AGO.
Jesus FUCK STOP BUYING WARCRAFT EXPANSIONS, OR THEY'LL KEEP MAKING THEM SHITTY AND REPETITIVE SINCE YOU BUY IT.
>>342829573
Think rifts in D3
AKA you just get blue packs with spinning death circles
RIP Horde
574-634
>>342834574
>Otherwise a huge chunk of adult playerbase is instantly gone
You think only kids played the game when it originally came out?
>>342834454
Because leveling an alt is part of the fun, you get to play and experience the class over a wide variety of zones. End game is supposed to be a small part of that character, so you can create more new characters and enjoy their playstyle over others.
>>342834574
If they release Legacy Servers with "instant 60," I won't be playing. Defeats the whole fucking purpose of a vanilla server.
>>342834635
Obvious photoshop and the quality of text (shit tier, even for neo-blizzard) and the way it was placed in the box made it even more obvious.
>>342816464
Youre so full of shit. That literally does not happen ever in this game.
>>342832190
Thats how it was in vanilla
Hint, no one used meeting stones in vanilla.
>>342834635
>midriff covered
fucking dropped
>>342834742
Umm anon...
>>342834730
I don't get it - why won't you play? Because you got emotional? Because others would have a way to play?
>>342834645
I was a kid back then 80% of people I interacted with were either kids or teens / young adults in college with free time.
[1. General - Westfall] [Chucknórris]: Anyone seen the defias messenger?
>>342834635
Why is sylvanas' belly button covered? This is gross.
>>342834837
He's a dumb troll - of course he speaks like that.
>>342833875
Vanilla content lasted longer? Hold the presses!
You forget the fact that even normies enjoyed vanilla WOW, only 6% of the active playerbase actively raided, and less then 20% ever reached max level with a main before BC came out.
And no one bitched either, it was fun to explore the warcraft universe
are you guys ready to play gears of warcraft when legion hits?
>that camera distance
>>342834879
Because instant 60 ruins the entire fucking game.
>>342834667
No the fuck it isn't, leveling in Guild wars could take 15 hours each or 3 hours if you got boosted. Vanilla WoW 200+ hours of boring ass grinding, another plus was playing PTR just like right now, I get to try everything at max level
[1. General - Westfall] [Legolashunterdk]: yes i just killed him, enjoy your long ass wait
>>342835046
Yeah, you're not the target for Vanilla... Sorry. Go play another game, because Vanilla WoW is not for you.
>>342835046
>I want to play all the characters at max level so I can repeat 40-man Molten Core and Onyxia every night forever.
There's more to the fucking game than that, anon. That's what new WoW has totally lost.
>>342835046
>Vanilla WoW 200+ hours of boring ass grinding
>doesn't understand that the best part of vanilla was the pre-60 content anyway.
>>342834989
That's because it took too long you retard. That's why people didnt' get to experience endgame. "more content" lemme run SMC 20 times bruh from 38-42. Let's run WC 20 times as well hyuk hyuk. Shit was a grind dont kid yourself. Oh snaps you're in Silithus and Ungoro, literally 10 quests in each area. hmm how can I hit 60, just grind silithus elementals. Wow muh content
>>342835179
Old WoW had the social aspect, sure but leveling was absolute garbage
>complaining about muh social aspect
>literally every launch of the new expansion is the only time you can experience this
>>342834423
>paladins
>not hilariously easy
>>342835340
>but leveling was absolute garbage
Bye bye.
Vanilla is not for you.
>>342835327
>"more content" lemme run SMC 20 times bruh from 38-42. Let's run WC 20 times as well hyuk hyuk. Shit was a grind dont kid yourself.
>running instances over and over
If you were actually doing such retarded things then you were completely responsible for making a grind out of the game. There were oodles of different questing regions available that added to the lore of the world and felt immersive.
Sounds to me like you're a late-joiner who ins't even able to comprehend what WoW was like prior to its current form of instance-spamming.
>>342835327
>endgame
What endgame?
Two or three raids at first from really dedicated 40 man groups?
"Endgame" is a stupid bullshit concept that needs to die.
The entire game was fun, and not just repeating raids nightly for gear.
>wanting to talk to random strangers in your LFD/LFR about your boring, meaningless day
Join a guild for that, faggot.
>>342835640
I only did that if I wanted a specific item from the dungeon. Cruel Barb and Illusionary Rod say hello.
>>342835608
top kek
>>342835640
Most people never played Vanilla WoW. I'm sure half the babies in this thread are 15-17 years old and play current WoW or picked up WoW after Wrath.
They're unable to comprehend how it was.
>>342835640
I got the seeker achievement the moment wotlk came out. Did I forgot to mention I did everything possible in each area to level? Dumbfuck thinks I only did instances. There was no instance spamming after SMC
>>342835763
>if you ain't dicksucking the guild leader you dont get invited to any guild
fuck that
>>342835805
Shouldn't you be spending time with your wife and children instead of playing MMO's, grandpa?
>>342835327
>Running dungeons more then once to level
No one did this, ever, except for horde on PVP servers since they could do it to 45 and never touch a contested zone
At most you would do your quests and maybe run it a few times to get a choice piece of gear, like cruel barb on a rogue, or the mail armor from SM that was BiS for warriors even after they got plate.
>>342835925
Shouldn't you not be a stupid fucking child and realize talking about things you didn't play/don't understand is retarded?
>>342835638
And I'd never go back to it just because the leveling was that horrendous
>>342815591
The warrior class hall fucking sucks. It has absolutely nothing to do with warrior warcraft lore. It rides on the lazy assumption the player knows what valhalla is IRL rather than put any sort of effort into an actual engaging area. Some sort of barracks or war camp or gladiator arena or a billion other things would have been better.
>>342835930
When he said "running dungeons to level" I instantly knew he had no clue what he was talking about.
>>342836025
That's fine, enjoy your new WoW. So much more fun hahahaha!!!
>repetitive dungeon grinding
>resource [tome] grinding
>Professions are still RNG shit, they just replaced garrison wait times with extreme node farming, and you still need your weekly grind of obliterium to upgrade them
>everyone gets one 'artifacts" completely missing the point of why the Legendary cape/ring was shit
So, its FFXIV?
>>342836046
And the guards are straight out of fucking Age of Sigmar
>>342835973
Shouldn't you not be getting butthurt over a video game, manchild?
>>342836046
>tfw hunters get a cozy hunting lodge all the way up a huge fucking mountain
pretty fuckin satisfied desu
>>342823007
To be fair, Blizzard brought back hard heroic dungeons at the start of Cataclysm, but the response was so overwhelmingly negative that Blizzard nerfed everything.
It was a fun couple of months, being forced to CC every pull made the dungeons carry some weight.
I blame WoTLK for making every dungeon an AoE rushfest GOGOGOGOGOGPULLPULL
>>342836068
It is actually a lot more fun to play than Vanilla was but as I said the social aspect went into the bin
>>342835930
Are you joking, it was the norm. Not only the norm but required to get certain missions done.
>>342830648
Steam Warrior
Plate Armor class, wields guns off-hand, one-handed swords/axes in their primary hand.
Alternate form is a shredder (or similar), for tanking.
>>342826326
Yeah, his opinion and about 10 million other people that jumped ship after those changes, you fucking moron.
Burning crusade was the GOAT, nothing was fun about grindy vanilla, each spec was shit for viability, pvp was unbalanced, even if you had tier 3 as a healer you would get asssraped because no mitigation, no unified city, unique quests, no flying mounts for real adventures
>>342836439
It's not an adventure if you just fly over everything
>hop on PTR
>Try Paladin for the first time
>find Ret to be fun
>everyone talks about how retardedly easy it is
>now I feel bad for enjoying it
>>342836542
Just lie and say you've played Ret since BC.
>>342826326
Uh. No.
Having to use meeting stones and chat is like booze. Its an icebreaker that makes people to talk, which leads to actual MMO gameplay.
LFG removes that.
This is as simple as math. It isnt even a question of opinion. LFG did kill the community.
>>342836253
Not their fault
Cata dungeons weren't even that hard too.
The problem was the fucking cancer that Dungeon Finder + Difficult dungeons causes.
When Dungeon Finder was introduced in Wrath, it was well received mainly because everyone knew the dungeons already and just wanted to get them fucking over with for their daily allowence of raid quality badges, and even then everyone bailed when it gave you Hals of Reflection or occulus, which should have been a good indicator that Dungeon Finder should not be used for hard content.
When Cataclysm launched and the dungeons were hard, most Dungeon Finder groups were more ready to jump down eachothers throat rather then help teach the newbies how to do a boss or a pull or CC and such, instead tanks became rare as fuck because they avoided LFG like the plague, and when they were in an LFG they used gearscore addons and the fact that they could hold a group hostage or let them find another one for an hour to vote kick people they deemed unworthy of their time.
Dungeon Finder has been, and always will be cancer, thank fucking god that there will not be a dungeon finder for mythic dungeons and any future dungeons of Legion.
>>342822069
You wont understand unless you played the game pre-MoP. Too much stuff has been changed for the worst, too much to list.
>>342836046
Fucking this.
I don't want to be a special snowflake. I don't want to be a legendary hero. I just want to be a grizzled everyman war veteran with a big axe. But I guess the powerlevel scale for raids is way too ridiculous for that now.
Just give me something like the argent rootin' tootin' fightin' hoedown, but specifically for angry dudes. Like the old berserker stance quest island, but big.
Chosen one bullshit in a MMO was a fucking mistake.
>>342836504
its not an adventure if you cant reach specific spots from running up a hill, then finding out you took the wrong path then running up anther path then finding outo its the wrong fucking path, then you fall and die, waste another 5 min running to your body, you fucking rez and youre in a pickle at a lower area and the only to get back up is to run another 3 minutes to the only ramp in the fucking gorge, fuck mobs everywhere keep dying, rinse and repeat
>great adventure
>>342836439
burning crusade was shit famq vanilla was the best stay butthurt because you never played real vanilla.
>>342836690
It's sad how true this is. I've always been a casual player and a tank, and when I joined up in late BC I was always incredibly excited to tank a dungeon. By cata, when dungeon finder had found its peak, it just felt like a chore.
A videogame should never feel like a job.
>>342828473
Not that guy, but I came back to WoW when WoD went on sale last fall. The game was terrible, but more to the point I noticed it was nearly impossible to interact with people. It's obvious the game doesn't require you to interact with anyone to do anything anymore, but even if you try to anyway just to be social, by this point the WoW player base has been socially engineered to never interact with one another because the game never requires them do. I did all the raids and tried in each one to spark up convo in chat, nobody ever responded. Leveled an alt and did the same thing, maybe one out of every 30 tedious dungeon grinds someone would say something. I couldn't test it out in the world because there's nobody fucking there.
So no, sorry, everyone didn't suddenly become socially retarded overnight. The people playing now are the next wave of WoW players that probably started after the group finding horseshit was implemented and to them this is how it's always been. You can play 1-100 and do everything last thing the game has to offer without every speaking a word to another person. In an MMO that's fucking inexcusable.
>>342836780
Yes, that is an adventure
>>342836669
>Having to use meeting stones and chat is like booze. Its an icebreaker that makes people to talk, which leads to actual MMO gameplay.
^This.
It's not complicated. Having to meet up at instance entrances instead of LFG is analogous to having to meet up with others IRL instead of having a skype chat.
>>342836669
right here retard, making groups was frustrating as hell back then, sure you talked, but you talked about how idiots left and joined
>>342828097
>>342836781
3 60's in vanilla, 100 days of play time
>>342834525
>This
but tarren mill defense squad
I even used to go back at 60 to help, because I was helped by 60s when I was questing there.
>>342836780
That is an adventure. There's adversity. It's a process. Things happen.
"I got on my flying mount and went there" is fucking boring. When the worst thing that happens is a mob aggroed and then you took off again to deaggro it, it's not fucking interesting.
Wgat class should I play if I want to make large chunks of HP disappear?
>>342836942
If efficiency is your only priority and being social means nothing to you then you may as well pick up an actual drug habit.
>>342836834
It was because they were intensive and actually doing one as a tank always gave you a sense of accomplishment. When that one item that you'd been looking for, dropped, you were also one step closer to being a raid ready tank.
It was all just a slower, harder but much more rewarding experience.
Now it's just
>Enter dungeon
>Bladestorm the shit out of everything and take a glance at the meters if someone needs kicking
>AoE the whole shit down if not
>RNG drops don't add excitement whatsoever
It's a farming simulator now. Before it felt like a difficult game.
>>342837121
A different game because WoW characters are fucking invincible and PvP is slow as shit.
The problem with modern MMOs is that they're more about 'convenience' than actually having fun.
The problem with that mentality, of course, is that 'convenience' means "How quickly can I gain currency?", which leads to impersonal and borderline sociopathic gameplay.
>>342836901
>>342836942
i feel that this anon's post
>>342832190
would be the perfect middle ground, as it would decrease the amount of people nonchalantly queueing up and group together the people that genuinely want to do that specific instance
>>342837226
For the sake of cross-realm groups? I'd be okay with that, I guess. It would be better to just have a server with a high enough population though desu.
>>342837191
It doesn't even need to be difficult, just engaging. Give me different things to do than the same rotation all the fucking time, have different mechanics in 5-mans, puzzles even.
I know raids incorporate different mechanics all the time, but small group content was my shit, and they killed it. It feels like MMO developers don't even know how to do small group contentr anymore.
>>342837204
There are no other good MMOs. I just quit XIV after 2 years.
>>342836342
Only if there is a gun + shield spec.
>>342837426TORexists.
>>342837883
How is it? Never played.
>>342838028
really good single player campaigns for all but 2-3 of the classes
decent raids
pvp is eh.
>>342837883
TOR is only really good for the class campaigns, and even then it's sometimes mediocre; maybe you'll find some enjoyment in doing pvp, I don't know.
"Hey Mike! glad I could get a hold of you soon enough, you're not seriously considering legacy servers right? Good, good, just make sure to keep the hype simmering, now listen, I know its gotta be tough on the team to no longer be top dog in the MMO industry where you cant even report sub numbers, but look at your player base, they'll defend you even if you openly supported hitler! Just keep those whales playing and paying and we'll go places Mike, we'll go places, just remember, no content, we can't afford to pay you to make content"
>stuck playing this shitty game for another 11 years because mmr boosting pays too much dosh
>>342837204
not in Legion.
>>342814319
>Caring about wow after its peak in WotLK
Litterly kek.
>>342838160
Pretty accurate, Agent is tops with Consular at a long second
>>342832437
DH tanks are parry focused and have burst healing, compared to the DK's sustain over time
>>342839064
>not sith warrior
>>342839064
>a long second
what did you even mean by this
>>342838160
>tfw I coop with my friend
>I pick Imperial agent and it's bretty gud
>he just has to go on ghost buster missions
He was far more invested in my story than his own. That game should've been developped as a big SP/Coop game imo.
>>342839173
>making your slave watch as you fuck skanks
Die beste.
>>342828097
>do 5 mans with my guild and friends
>do raids with my guild and friends
>only thing LFD ever added was ability to find a group way faster if no guildmates/friends are on
>don't ever use LFR as there is no point to ever do it
The people who want LFD/LFR removed are just autistic. If you removed LFD/LFR, even more people would quit playing. Those features mainly cater to people who don't have much time to invest in the game.
If a player actually does invest time, they naturally gravitate towards joining a guild and doing regular dungeon/raid groups with them. IE the same shit players have been doing since the game came out over a decade ago.
cata was a lot of fun as a shadow priest
those shadow clones were neat
>>342836046
It should have been Frey island.
>Just want to play Rogue
>Everyone gets these cool as fuck order halls
>Get a shit-filled sewer
Feel like they're trying to tell me something here
>>342831689
Vengeance incorporates traits from several of the other tanking specs
Cleaves off soul fragments and then uses them to heal (or consume for certain abilities) like monks have spheres. Its main resource is spent to use on a healing ability similar to WoD death strike (heals based off of AP, not damage taken). Has low cds on its tanking abilities and lower base mitigation so it has to use the cds pretty effectively.
Also the only other spec in the game now that can "mass grip" like blood dks can.
>>342842580
>dks have same place they always have had
Granted its much better than the shitty rogue hall, but still not that exciting.
Would've been sweet if we could've taken up part of Icecrown Citadel
>legion will have no raids at launch
>emerald dream and suramar will be released like highmaul and brf
>probably will follow the wod model again will only get one more raid
Yeah sounds good
>>342844445
Not to mention they've already cut another zone.
At least we get this expansions Tanann/timeless isle out of the gates when we het 110, sucky that its a generic linear questline as part of an 'attunement'
I see people out in the world, talking in groups, and other social shit all the time when I play. You all must be some unlucky souls.
>>342844727
What zone and link to where they said they cut it.
>>342828048
I actually liked that plot. Most people dont see it though.
>>342847071
yeah, they also made ner'zhul a dindu in the books.
MoP was the best expansion. This is probably going to be 2nd best. Your loss.
I can't wait for the new expansion of FFXIV now that Heavensward ended.
>>342848568
MoP was so good because it came out between two worst expansions of warcraft.
Cata destroyed the old world and filled it with ebin new memes.
>>342826915
Vanilla was more than just 40 man raids and attunements. Why do people keep saying this? Wildstar didn't die because of its raiding. It died because its goofy, childish, and wonky to play.
>>342846621
Thal'dranath
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/5771-Legion-Developer-Q-A-Ion-Hazzikostas
Why would anybody still care about WoW? Nobody fucking even acknowledges it anymore, the community is gone, there's nothing left but addicts and Chinese. TB is gone, Penny Arcade is gone, this game is dead and done.
The people who still play this are worse than Second Life players.
>>342848848
I couldn't even get to level 20 because of the insufferable writing and I hated their "action combat" with only a handful abilities available at once
>>342829517
Hunter feels super lazy. They basically drop you in this backwoods lodge after 10 seconds of exposition and say "A LEADER IS YOU". I mean, if you like the idea of a backwoods lodge with a couple small camps around it, good for you, but the actual quest that leads up to it is easily the most phoned in out of any class. Rogue is a shitty sewer, but at least the lead in for it has some effort put in.
>>342844727
>>342849127
Cut is a disinfo word used to make them look bad. They are not removing the island. They are changing its theme to something else. The concept of Thaldranath will have been played out by the latter half of the expansion so they just said "Were gonna rename it and make it something not Nelf/Demon themed." This isnt a sky is falling scenario yet.
>>342849614
Just like Farahlon huh
>>342849754
Except they never said that about Farahlon.
>>342849614
>Trusting anything ActiBlizzard says
>Ever
Fuck off cuck.
Anyone who says they'll keep playing for the story is retarded.
>hear illidan becomes an archangel of the light
>assume it's just bullshit because that's the least illidan-like thing they could do
>look it up
>it's actually real
>>342849614
>place that was the home of Nelfdom
>not night elf themed
shiggy
>>342849919
Its not about trust. I've predicted every move since Cata. I wasn't hyped for Warlords at all and was right. I can tell when they are going to remove a feature based on how much attention they give to it, and Farahlon wasn't even mentioned/shown past the first day on the map unlike Thal which is being widely discussed by the actual staff/
>>342850061
Nothing in Legion looks like it's supposed to.
>>342850402
Its almost as if technology and ideas had to be limited at that time period for that genre and that making an MMO requires not making ugly shit for people to look at.
>>342822069
I don't know if you're still around but I'll tell you what I think since I was in a similar position with WoD. I started late MoP (after having only played a little in vanilla since I couldn't afford the sub at the time) and I was genuinely enjoying the game up to the WoD release since there felt like so much to do.
I went in to WoD excited and had a lot of fun doing the leveling and initial dungeons, but the transparency of the gear grind and the lack of anything to do outside of increasing your ilvl and garrison crap wore on me so fast I didn't last two months into it before quitting.
If you're having fun, continue to do so and don't let other people tell you not to, but don't be surprised if a lot of what people are saying happens to you once you actually reach the endgame. I don't think the problems are only apparent to jaded veterans, hell I even had a lot of fun on Nost and now Kronos despite never having played vanilla properly.
>>342813924
Quit half way through cataclysm, never been back, no regrets.
>>342850804
If they can't keep everything looking like it's supposed to look back when it was first made, why should we trust anything they say?
>>342814332
For that is your fate, anon. The fate of the cursed.
>>342850953
Shouldnt=/=Cant. I sure as fuck hope they wouldnt make Suramar look like that. You guys are just looking for things to complain about now.
>DK class hall is Acherus the ebon hold
>Well I was expexting that but it docked to Icecrown citadel in Northrend is pretty cool
>They move back to the eastern plageulands
I mean fucking why! At least move it to the broken isles like dalaran.
>>342836860
This. Played for a week in WoD because I got a free trial, and it was only worse than when I played Pandaland for a week because of a free trial.
>More likely than not everyone you meet are not even on the same server thanks to merging
>cross server players have no incentive to interact with others beyond pulling the next pack of enemies in the dungeon
>guilds have become automated-invite guild-perk machines, no one talks in those either
>>342851662
But thats literally what they do?
>>342852476
Yeah I looked it up there, silly me it has been a while since I played legion.
Darion is the last horseman too.
>>342850804
My problem with Legion's shit isn't a quality thing it's a continuity thing. They took what's supposed to be a barren, abandoned ruin that's been sitting at the bottom of the ocean for tens of thousands of years and cut all the ocean shit that WC3 had. All the ruins in Legion look pristine and clean and what was some shitty ruin that had long since been sacked for everything of value is suddenly a massively important place despite nothing being there any more. Also the not-Tauren and Vrykul who decided that it was their promised land even though it's been sitting at the bottom of the ocean and was only raised like twenty years ago ingame which is apparently enough time for both to form massive civilizations.
>>342851662
Last I checked Acherus was floating between Salaran and the tomb of sargeras on beta. Did they change it?
>>342852625
It was what anyone could've expected, a lot of qq about it not being Tirion though.
The only thing I don't like about the whole thing is us not having any control over our player character in the matter. Our PC commands Darion to assault Light's Hope Chapel. I had more hope for player choice after seeing the unholy artifact quest where you either convince the priest to help you or beat him into submission.
>>342853179
>a lot of qq about it not being Tirion though
Only because Paladins bitched and moaned about it like they do everything else.
>>342853323
Please, do you really think they changed it because of the paladin whining? It being Darion was clear from the start.
>>342853471
Is the beta open yet, or still invite only?
>>342853471
Other than the fact that datamined quests had you raiding Light's Hope to steal Tirion's corpse and raise him, yeah, it was totally supposed to be Darion all along,
>>342853687
That would have been retarded. It's bad enough he gets punked by some random demon so Luvztospooge can have an Ashbringer.
>>342853687
Them failing and it turning out to be Darion was the plan from the start. Darion had a follower entry early in beta already, Tirion never had one.
Tirion actually being the 4th was never a thing.
>>342853682
Betas have never been open after the vanilla one.
Prepatch will probably be July 19th, expecting announcement with the PvP Q&A this week to announce Season end.
>>342854281
Meant to ask if there's a PTR for Legion.
>>342854524
PTR for prepatch is up right now.
>>342854164
There was never anything confirming who was the real fourth horseman except for the Tirion quest, Darion having a follower has no relation to that,
>>342854101
Guldan is hardly some random demon.
>>342854838
It actually does because each class only has 7 followers. If Tirion had been added it'd have been 8.
>>342854587
does pre-patch get rid of brawler's guild? i still need that stupid paper covered rock which i've been grinding for months with no luck...
>>342855014
Yes, Brawler's guild is gone.
What artifact skin are you going for anon?
>>342828137
i imagine Blizz will just do the pristine server idea
highly highly doubt they've been in constant communication with the guys from Nost, that's probably just mike telling them "say you've been meeting with us or we'll sue you back to the stone age"
>server that eliminates all xp increases
>including heirlooms and flasks
>removes WoW tokens and RAF
>it's more like the Ironman Challenge except you can die
>>342854896
I guess Gul'dan has been juicing and getting a sweet red tan since last we saw him?
>>342854587
>go check
>ineligible due to maintanence
Damn it.
>>342855838
Unless they tune the gear and stats to not two shot every mob on any class then the xp cuts won't fucking matter and the wow token thing won't matter unless they remove tokens from the whole game.
>>342854896
Gul'dan, what a card. Look at him go.
>>342856181
That's obviously Gul'dan wearing a Jailer Zerus mask.
>>342826080
>>342826872
holy shit, thanks for introducing me to this game bros
i already got a massive hard on for it, i just really really hope the monthly fee isn't gonna be too expensive
>>342834449
There's tons of smaller close knit ones,but the jump in player population is like night and day from Kronos to random server
>>342835640
>oodles
Opinion discarded
>>342850402
None of the maps in WC3 look like their WoW counter-parts.
>>342828653
>stop liking what i dont like
>>342856040
>>342856181
That's just the demon guarding him. Tirion was defeated and drained of his strength by Gul'dan during the Broken Shore scenario.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqpdm4Tg5k
It actually looks as if he dies, but apparently the demons recovered him from the fel pool, still alive.
>>342855838
The whole nost thing has been a quiet long term fuck off.
>Shut down server
>Everyone loses their shit
>Oh fuck
>Don't worry guys we are talking to the nost guys for ideas
>Months go by
>Still talking
>People stop caring and move on
>Year gone by
>No one cares anyone
>Ok guys fuck off.
>>342857801
Gul'dan has been juicing up though.
>>342857305
he raises a fair point though. Yes it was more efficient to AoE grind to get to level cap, but the entire levelling process was a journey. Going from one place to another on an adventurous journey to defeat the big bad was worth it alone
>tfw ywn go on an epic quest to kill morbent fel and save Darkshire.
>>342850804
Almost but not quite.
They made all the vanilla stuff awesome and similar to the RTS, so go back to eating shit you dumb shit eater.
>>342855636
Whirlwind Axe.
>>342858148
Do they just bring in their kids to design these characters or what?
>>342858384
Sometimes.
>>342858285
Are you serious? Entire zones were completely in contradiction to the maps in WC3.
>>342858148
reminder that this isn't Gul'Dan, but some alternative dimension version of him
reminder that everything that happened in WOD was in an alternative dimension and therefore completely pointless and a waste of time
blizzard really went full retard after killing off arthas, why can't they just make new villains up instead of butchering the lore to recycle old villains?
>>342858916
Because people STILL bitch nonstop about MoP.
>>342859063
MoP is completely out of place in Warcraft.
>>342858912
i disagree
the maps are a little tweaked to make it better suited for the game, but overall the RTS ones are similar to the wow ones
but most importantly the architecture, the characters, etc. it was 100% true to the RTS
if you actually played those games you'd know what im talking about
>>342859248
MoP had a great atmosphere but I agree it really was out of place for the Warcraft franchise.
>>342858916
Well, technically he found Illidan, who had consumed the skull of prime timeline Gul'dan, so it's possible he absorbed the power and memories of prime universe Gul'dan through Illidan by now.
>>342850402
The broken isles were so beautiful in frozen throne.
>>342859480
>Alt Guldan is stronger than original Guldan
>Oringianl Guldan's Skull was a powerful artifact that could be used to open portals and shit
>Illidan absorbed original Guldans skull and become super powerful
What is stopping Illidan absorbing this new stronger Guldan's skull and becoming SSJ2 Illidan.
>>342850402
>>342860374
at least blizzard cannot retroactively make their games worse.
>>342860374
Everything pre-WoW was various levels of decent and good.
>>342860696
I liked how vanilla looked, especially the models. Tt's definitely better than the Pixar vomit they're pushing now.
>>342861090
WoW itself isn't too pixar like.
overmeme on the other hand is.
>>342861090
Played Warcraft since the beginning and I disagree. I'll take the new models over the previous eyesores.
>>342861248
The player animations are definitely pixar, everything looks bouncy and weird and all the facial animations are extremely exaggerated.
>>342861090
Yeah. Also the things there weren't so over-designed like in WoW and didn't have needless bits and shit.
>>342860374
>>342860673
>>342860696
Suramar is one of the prettiest zones they ever made in WoW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlXJJoXW2qM
what hall druids get? Please dont tell me its fucking moonglade
>>342861717
This still won't save WoW no matter how pretty it will be.
And to be frank,it does look pretty.
>>342859248
It was a bunch of WoW unique characters going at it, which is exactly what the guy I responded to seems to think would be a well received idea.
>>342861402
pixar doesn't have a monopoly on cartoonish features.
>>342849259
TB said he wants to come back / and is excited for Legion though
>>342862685
He seems to stay away from WoW.
>>342862543
But I hate it and everything I see that even slightly resembles it triggers me, WoW is dead forever ebcause Blizzard ripped off Pixar right down to the Pixar-face.
>>342862543
But Blizzard is clearly trying to emulate their style, especially for Overwatch.
>>342860528
What do you think will happen in the final raid of Legion?
>Avatar of Sargeras is fucking everyone up
>Queue LK fight 2.0
>Tirion Stormrage consumes the second skull and by the powers of the fel light he wrecks the Avatar
>"There must always be a Gul'dan" says Illidan Fordring before crystalizing himself again
>>342849259
>giving a shit about what some guilds and some ecelebs say about a game
>>342862870
I kinda got their reasoning for exaggerated animations during the character remodels, them wanting to sell the cartoonish aspects of it.
>>342862923
overwatch is engineered from the ground up to cater to a wide variety of gamers.
>>342863040
This
Ecelebs have shitty opinions and say shit to gain more YT clicks.
>>342863209
e Celeb chatter is an important metric for popular games.
>>342862923
Retarded argument
Thats like saying Eva is stealing from howls moving castle because they are both anime.
>>342863087
>>342863345
TF2 has a similar cartoony style but it's different enough to stand out, Overwatch isn't. If we lived in a bizarro world where Pixar was releasing those Overwatch animated shorts nobody would question it.
>>342861985
The Dream Grove.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pyZ_mQIoUo
>>342863287
No it is not, In the end it is there shitty opinion just like everyone elses shitty opinion. Let me guess you buy games based on if ZP says it is ok right?.
>>342863087
Cartoony is cancer, Warcraft was once serious and awesome, now it's memes and kiddie shit and rolf Dreamworks face and caramelldansen.
>>342831020
http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=77220/mastery-chaotic-energiesMastery: Chaotic Energies
Requires Warlock (Destruction)
Requires level 78
Your spells deal a random amount of additional damage, up to 24%. Damage you take is reduced by a random amount, up to 5%.
>>342814332
>they always come back XD
Not after WoD
>>342863828
People said the same shit in WoD beta as they're saying about Legion beta.
>oh man all this content is great can't wait for more in the full release
>>342863642
>Warcraft was once serious
Because referancing monty python is grim dark amiright.
>>342863597
no, I don't know who ZP is, and I generally play RTS games and a few older FPSes.
Warcraft was always a little goofy and hammy. Yes, blizzard went all the way and turned it into a meme factory, but it was always goofy from the start
>stop poking me!
>>342863642
I've been a Warcraft drone since WC2 and I never considered it to be serious. It was definitely grittier, as was everything else in the 90's, but it was always cartoony. It's still serious, the art direction is just a lot softer. Makes sense as an MMO, since it's trying to appeal to more people.
The mouse cursor not being a severed hand should have tipped people off that WoW was going to be lighter on the gore than the previous games. There's still violence, it's just not as excessive.
>We Want The Diablo 3 Audience: The Expansion
>>342863642
Agreed here. If it was at least similar to Battle Chasers in terms of aesthetics, and was still serious, then it would've been OK.
Now look at it.
>>342864108
Poking units doesn't count lad.
>>342858148
>Gul'dan's power fueled by his own skull
>>342864108
It wasn't super serious but I think TFT did a pretty good job of showing characters in shades of grey which is something Blizzard forgot how to do.
>>342830648
More race specific classes could be interesting, like a gadgeteer class that shoots rockets for goblins and gnomes. Theoretically they COULD make necromancers unique enough. Priests are caster Paladins and Demon Hunters are melee Warlocks so we should be able to have caster Death Knights as Necromancers too. Summoning, Bonemancy and Poison/Blood would fit the theme fine.
>>342864320
They need to bring back class racials like Priests used to have. A spell like Avatar has no place being used by fucking elves.
>>342864219
>wants grim dark in a game where a running joke is people turning in to sheep.
Some how i can tell you play a DK or a warlock with names like "darkoverkill" and "slicer"
>>342864289
>TFT did a pretty good job of showing characters in shades of grey
No it didn't. Everyone's motivations were painfully obvious, because they constantly said out-loud what their motivation was. Nobody couldn't see Arthas turning evil coming.
>"LET'S JUST GO IN THERE AND KILL THE BEASTS" - Arthas in the first chapter.
>>342864626
That was RoC not TFT you mongoloid.
>>342864108
More dignified than referencing Homestar Runner.
>>342864626
Arthas did literally nothing wrong prior to picking up the frostmourne.
>>342864626
well the orcs were stealing his people and sacrificing them to demons. He was well meaning if a little hotheaded.
>>342864625
I don't want grimdark you twat. I want my WCIII era WarCraft...with Thrall not being green Jesus and with Daelin being wrong.
>>342864792
>hiring mercenaries to burn down his ships
>then killing said mercenaries
the culling was, at least, arguably the right thing to do, but that was straight stupid.
>>342864626
>>342864873
He did sort of turn that way when his horse died. but with that locked away in a book made years after the game even matter?
The Wow hate circlejerk is unreal lmao if you don't like it then do not play if you miss a certain xpac go play a private server they are free lol
>>342864957
>does not want green jesus
>perfectly fine with green moses
Let my people go!!!!
>>342865004
oh yeah, that was pretty mean too
>>342865283
More like green Spartacus...minus the I am Spartacus thing.
>>342863979
>>342863828
I really enjoyed WOD and thought it was the best leveling experience. Honestly I just pay for the new leveling and to see whats going on. I always get around 30 or so hours of play time and that is a good deal for 55$
>>342865664
>tfw play total war games.
>literally unlimited hours of gameplay
man, I have been spoiled
>>342865664
>I always get around 30 or so hours of play time and that is a good deal for 55$
By the standards of shitty modern AAA games sure. You can get WC3 for like 20 bucks and even though it's well past its prime you can still get tons of play out of it between the campaign, regular play against bots or other people, and customs maps.
>>342865453
Bulshit he even shares Moses origin story.
>basket found by poeple not of him
>raised as one of them
>found his true people
>let my people go
>lead his people in to desert
I don't get why people are ok with this bible allegory but then suddenly not ok with another.
>>342834635
Oh boy, Literally Hitler 2 is now in charge of the horde. Didn't we just go through a huge arc about putting someone like that in power?
Let me guess, the Horde is still gonna be treated like a bunch of dindus regardless?
Just make them a villain faction and get it over with. The Tauren still being a part of the horde is not enough justification for them to still not be the evil faction.
>>342865967
Also Go'el is hebrew meaning "to redeem". Since he basically redeems the Orcs.
>>342865990
Orcs have always been warmongering retards loosely held together by a powerful leader. As soon as Thrall left and Garry took over and started shaking things up they split apart.
>>342834635
the horde was dead when thrall was no longer warchief
>>342864320
The Tinker idea has been around for a while, but seeing as Engineering is a profession and hunters can tame mechanical pets in Legion it's no longer feasible.
Unless they remove engineering and mech pets the way they removed metamorphosis from warlocks to create DH.
>>342866197
>Since he basically redeems the Orcs.
And then he leaves the Horde under Garrosh.
And the latter under bad writing and character development turns into Orc Hitler.
Pretty much screwed himself over with that part, making so that the Orcs would now go and try to redeem themselves even harder.
>>342866369
Garrosh was a great leader, his only mistake was not being friends with Sylvanas, the only other great Horde leader.
>>342865990
Lets not pretend the alliance shit don't stink my friend. Garithos did share sentiment with a lot of humans and a lot fo humans are still racist as fuck to even there alies.
>>342866478
Blizzard has established with Legion that they are not past completely changing a class or spec in order to make another, see Demonology and Demon Hunters.
>>342813924
This is a max level Demon Hunter's bars. I want to like DH so much but they shat the bed.
There are even talents where you REMOVE the '1' button for a FUCKING PASSIVE. AND IT WAS JUST BUFFED.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
>>342866571
>Garithos
was rlght
>>342865283
Thrall was actually well-characterized in WC3.
His writing was level-headed and filled with attempts to both appeal to his heritage and find a new path. He looked up to Grom too much but character flaws are good. His whole motive was finding a new land it wasn't really his fault that Lorderan refugees followed him and that Daelin went WC2 mode.
It's just literally everything that's followed 3 has steadily made Thrall one of the most unlikeable characters in Warcraft. He is the definition of a Mary sue and it was only till that elemental plot where Metzen gained a sense of awareness and wrote about Thrall suffering and owing up to consequences for his actions.
It just took years of bad writing to get to that point.
>>342866528
More like wasted potential caused via bad writing and badly done character development because the people in charge didn't know what to do with him.
>>342866870
Garithos was retarded, elves suck but if you have an army of them ready to die for you the last thing you do is tell them to fuck off.
>>342866571
don't you talk shit about based Garithos
>>342866734
They want the MOBA audience now while Vanilla WoW wanted the Everquest audience.
>>342866993
he told them to hold the line.
they became besties with demon worshipping naga
>>342866905
>years of bad writing
Wasn't Thrall just absent mostly? With only in Cataclysm getting some really bad stuff because of the world shaman aspect empowerment thing?
>>342867084
but vanilla WoW was even simpler than Legion
Warlocks spammed 1 button for raiding you tard
>>342866734
They did that with nearly every class. Arms in Legion is literally:
>hit Colossus Smash
>hit Mortal Strike
>hit Slam until Colossus Smash is off cooldown
>repeat
I am not exaggerating at all.
Like there are MULTIPLE people who had to review that design and go "great, good work, perfect, three buttons is fun."
WHAT.
>>342867218
he told them to stay behind and fix some useless observatories and then took all their backup. all they did with the naga was take their boats which they needed to defend themselves.
>>342867084
I don't see how having more than 4 spells and are not bound to QWER makes it a MOBA. The ability pruning is excessive but calling it a MOBA is retarded.
I played a BLM in XIV and had all these spells, but most of them were useless and only served a purpose for level syncing in low content areas. There's no fucking difference between lightning 1, 2 and 3.
>>342867472
>useless
>provide valuable recon
pick one.
>>342867027
I can talk shit about him, Garithos was a nobody who got jumped up to power because all the good ones had died at that point. Shit if Lothar had been alive Garithos would be scrubbing toilets in stormwinds dirtist pub.
>>342867603
>observatories provide valuable recon
>kael uses valuable recon to kill undead before they kill him, undead are also a threat to garithos
>garithos gets mad because they moved away from the spot he told them to stand
i feel like im the only person who is hype for legion
>>342867639
if lothar was alive, the orcs would be dead.
>>342867775
>have defensive location
>attack an army that grows larger the more they kill
>>342866571
It is two completely different things to be racist (around elves, watch yourselves) and wanting to literally exterminate/subjugate everything that's not like you.
Alliance is more of the former, while the Horde has been the latter since Cataclysm.
>>342834635
does she become warcheif in the pre patch for legion or what?
>>342867904
>attacking an enemy force you found that could go after you or your allies at any time is a bad thing
>implying that matters since he won
>>342868054
shit happens, vol'jin goes missing.
sylvannas takes the mantle.
>>342867806
Funny i seem to remember Doomhammer smashing his skull in.
>>342867972
IF that was true what about Jaina" the horde breaker" Proudwhore
>>342867639
Literally best warcraft hero after Uther, you inhuman scum.
