>There's people that legitimately think visual novels have good writing
>>342633448
The only redeeming thing about ZnT was the music.
>>342633448
>there are people that make shitposting OPs with anime imag3s
>>342633448
It's better than books cause it's got pictures.
>>342633817
Someone tell me how I got here~
>>342633941
Seriously ZnT was trash.
It seemed interesting at first but then the mary sue with retarded hair showed up and the show went from 8/10 to -10/10
>There are people that legitimately think books are the only good written writing material.
>>342634153
Books are a sea of dogshit too, but the good ones are league above what's "good" for visual novels.
>>342634136
The CIA cunt that couldn't stop making half assed chess analogies and allegories?
>>342634419
I don't even remember if she was CIA, the bitch with dumb hair.
>>342633448
>why is this vn good
>i-it has good characterization and a fleshed out plot!
>how so?
>...
Well I thought Saya no Uta was good.
Fate is definitely shit though.
Only two I've played.
>>342633448
All VNs have are writing, so yeah it's going to be good, you nerd
>>342633448
Its like you've never run into a fatefag before
>>342633817
>we are the bad guys who blow up everything
>not really though, just kidding
It was such a let down, holy shit.
>>342634992
>Fate is shit
hot opinion
>>342633448
Yeah OP, I beat your Call of Duty games has the best writing ever.
>>342635219
>We set off a nuke in the atmosphere and all that happened was some snow
>We killed off these faggots who barely had any character outside of being pretentious faux terrorists, are you sad yet? The waifu bait is!
>>342633448
>there's people
>>342635306
I think we grew up past the "u lik COD xd" kneejerk response whenever someone says they dislike a video game you like phase.
>>342635240
I love the series and don't regret reading it, but the ending of Heaven's Feel is really the only time I felt like I was having fun with it.
>implying you know what a good writing is
>>342633448
For real what was the point of the white haired bitch? She added nothing to the story.
Of all the 4 vn ive played
Saya no Uta was 2edgy4me
And the first 3 games of Ace Attorney weresuper fun
>>342635657
It kinda depends on the case though in AA games.
>>342633448
Let's be fair here, most of people on /v/ can't recognize good writing at all
We even have obsidian drones who think that MotB has good writing
>>342633448
>there's people that legitimately think that Dostojevskij is good writing
>>342635509
Good writing makes my peepee feel funny
make sure to buy muv luv on steam senpaitachi
>>342633448
>>342635789
What *is* good writing?
>>342635802
He is
>>342635806
Personally it makes my penis feel aroused.
>>342635802
>Dostojevskij
You having a heart attack or something?
>>342635832
It's writing above mediocre but bellow great
>>342635425
Theres still underages on /v/ so no we will never get over that phase.
>>342635831
>$30 for trash I can get for free
you going to recommended Grisaia:Gary Stu adventures next too?
>>342635832
You can tell writing is good if you read it and go "that's some good writing right there"
Typically means the author had a thesaurus next to him and used the most complicated words he could possibly use and always wrote in depth paragraph describing every little detail for the most mundane things.
>>342635454
>I love the series and don't regret reading it
>I only really had fun in one bit
What?
>>342636096
>You can tell writing is good if you read it and go "that's some good writing right there"
That would imply everyone has a sense for quality writing. Or at least, the same one.
They're called nerds, and they're fucking retarded. just look at this board
>VN has too much text for you
>you give up on it and claim it has bad writing
>shitpost on /v/ about it
I think I nailed it.
>>342636095
hahaha grisaia sucks :)
>>342633448
I've always thought many AAA games should just be visual novels instead. It's clearly the direction a lot of companies wanted to take.
Also, to be honest, I spend more time reading about the lore and story of some games than playing the actual games.
I'd prefer a The Last of Us and MGS VN to playing most of the games. I don't care about story in my games unless it's a VN or strict adventure game.
>>342636096
I call that purple prose and that's not good writing.
>>342636182
>has a sense for quality writing
Subjective
I miss when anime censorship was just not drawing in the nips/vag/dick. All the random bright lights and conveniently placed steam clouds just clutter things up and look bad.
>>342633448
but they sure do have perfect waifus
>>342636276
Exactly. Meaning there's no such thing as "good writin", only "writing you enjoy".
I don't read them for the writing, I read them for the plot and characters.
>>342633448
VN are for waifus, and that is my waifu.
>>342634136
ur 100% correct about the mary sue bitch but i think the last two episodes redeemed it enough to make it a solid 7//10
>>342636372
this t b h
>go to /lit/ for good writing
>pedophilia and absurdism
>/vn/ without pictures
well played
>>342633817
and the animation,the eskimo scene at the beggining was really cool to see,the show was pretty good with vehicles in general
>>342636349
Good writing is something I think can be objectively measured.
A writer who ignores to characterize his cast, ignores the value of tension, and can't realize the value in editing a hundred pages from their 400 page book can't become a good writer.
>>342636349
>>342636276
The term good writing means:
- No plot holes or asspulls
- Characters that are developed and drive the story
- Knowing how to pace the story
- Consistency from start to end
>>342636372
I think op was using writing to encompass those things as well, not just prose
>>342636737
>>342636740
>what is an unstructured, non-traditional narrative
>>342633448
>Get a interactive story
>Written to be interesting and have plenty of turns
>There's also music, voices and paced text
What's not to love?
>>342636737
You can't "objectively measure" something that doesn't rely on metrics.
>>342636587
>going to 4chan to discuss things
you come here to shitpost. If you cared about developing your construct of good writing, you'd be burning through a dozen books a week till you could answer that question.
>>342633448
It's the same demographic that likes shit like Infinite and Tlou. They think shit like a few foreshadowed plot twists makes a story good.
>>342636830
One that still satisfies all of those criteria if it's any good?
Undertale is unironically the best written game in my possesion.
Fucking hell aren't there supposed to be dedicated writters in this medium?
>>342637156
>Fucking hell aren't there supposed to be dedicated writters in this medium?
They're "writers" in the same sense video games journalists are "journalists".
>>342637156
Undertale is actually garbage in every way, especially the writing.
>>342633448
>there's
>>342636830
Bad writing
I've never read anything of the like that I would qualify as good. Experimental and worthy of praise, yes. But good writing has structure, ignoring that structure will always put you on the fringe, where most people won't care.
>>342636898
I say you can. A good book needs a conflict, protagonist, and antagonist. If you ignore those rules, It isn't a good book.
You're welcomed to experiment, but all that would be is good sentence construction. It don't mean your book is good.
>>342637156
Never played it, indie stuff turns me off hard, but I heard that the best thing about it is the mechanics, not the story.
>>342633448
>Reading visual novels when westerners have already surpassed gooks in putting anime in prose
>>342635509
i saw this few years ago
what was that hentai anime?
>>342637659
>guy wearing fantasy power armor is fighting a Godzilla-sized lobster
>stops lobzilla's claw from crushing a king by catching it from underneath
Yea Sanderson is animu
>>342633941
Don't do this to me...
>>342637373
They're both wrong, the story is "lol look how meta we are" and the mechanics are "lol look how good this would be if there was a hard mode instead of an easy mode".
The best thing about it is the music.
My mfw when I'll throw myself at writing a VN after I'm done with my current writing project.
Lesbian robots.
Damaged girls.
Kind old men.
Russian oligarchy.Yes, you're a lesbian robot too.Just gotta create it soon, before it will become irrelevant in 10 years.WE'RE LIVING IN THE FUTURE.
>>342633448
her legs were the only reason to watch ZnT
>>342638869
Well writing is about what you want it to be. High culture or low, if you believe that argument.
Just find your audience and appeal to them while doing your damnedest to not be lazy.
>>342637351
Sorry, but you're reading ability is shit if you think plot and antagonists are requirements. Grow up sometime.
>>342639095
My audience is me, senpai. That's how you're supposed to be writing.
Also, I forgot trains. Lots and lots of trains and tundra.
Thanks for taking the time to fill out the captcha for me.
>>342639197
They are requirements for it to be a good book and the lowest requirements for you to have before you can pursue good writing.
It doesn't mean your prose is shit. Ulysses is an experimental masterpiece because of that.
But your book isn't good if it doesn't follow this mold.
Steins gate was really good
how many vns have fluff? just descriptions about the characters activities and surroundings with no humour, valueless conversations etc?
Most of them?
>>342639675
Is it actually?
Every story I read or watched that involved time travel either
>Had a slew of plot holes
or
>Always ended up with the same spouted message of, "Even if you can travel through time you can't fix you problems ;)"
>>342639760
>Most of them
*All
>>342637659
mistborn isok
>>342640365
I thought unteralterbach had very little of that.
>>342640262
Time travel shit always ends up with plot holes
>>342634330
Maybe because most good books have been written 60~150 years ago, aside from being a medium older than fucking dirt. Most video games with any writing whatsoever don't go further than 20 years.
Any good sites to download VNs for freee? Cant torrent where im at.
>>342640969
>Not reading stormlight
>>342635240
Hot as in correct?
>>342639540
>But your book isn't good if it doesn't follow this mold.
This is the most juveline, uneducated opinion posed as fact I've read here in the past week. and I thought /v/ was shit only at discussing video games.
Be serious. How old are you, and how much have you read lately?
>>342642168
You just reminded me I torrented all the chapters years ago and never bothered to even extract the files from the rar.
>>342636096
If you need a thesaurus next to you while writing you're either a pretentious cunt or are unfit to write altogether.
>>342639760
Not many actually. Not the ones I've read anyway, which is kinda sad, because I love these kind of stuff in stories.
>>342637351
>Tristram Shandy is bad writing
Top kek my friend.
>>342633817
I liked the show well enough, but as soon as 6 showed up everything went to shit. The ending was probably the worst part
far side of the moon is GOAT and vastly better than fate trash
>>342640262
It's the exact opposide of that.
It just has a slow start that's all
>>342636349
>Michael Bay movies are well written because people like them
>>342640262
Just as you expected steins gate is garbage
There only few not shit tier time travel vn, and of course this shit isn't one of them
>>342642312
>call me childish
>can only act like a child while replying
Sorry I'm apparently triggering you so much.
24, I've been reading since I was seven, I used to do three books a week but had to drop to two. I've just finished One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich and Ulysses, which is why I mentioned Ulysses since it's fresh on the mind.
Modernism has been a fun movement to follow since I started in late 2015, but I haven't found more than a handful I would call good books. Exceptional experiments and master-crafted prose? Yes, lots of it. But none of it I would call good writing, but from what I understand Modernism wasn't about good plots but rather ignoring all the rules for the sake of it.
>>342642637
I just saw this in my ebook (finished) section but have no recollections about reading it.
Japs are shit writers in general. I have never seen people so reliant on shoving the EXACT same character archetypes into every fucking thing they write.
>>342642028
This although i dont think how much time has passed is an excuse
>>342642028
>video games have only been around for 20 years
Yet they have centuries of examples for how to write dialogue and characters. It's not even the medium. When you got a visual novel, why is your dialogue so awful? Why are your characters so flat?
>>342643670
>>can only act like a child while replying
Are you butthurt friend? I called you out on your terrible,terrible narrow views.
>but from what I understand Modernism wasn't about good plots but rather ignoring all the rules for the sake of it.
If you're half as well-read as you say in your post you'd know not to spout such dumb comments.
>>342644251
pretty much, there's two categories with gook writing
>Cliche rollercoaster you've seen 1000 times
>Subversion and deconstruction of the cliches for the sake of being different while still being as poorly written
>>342643670
>good prose, but not good writing
Literally turn your computer off and stop gracing us with your bullshit pseudointellectual analysis.
>>342644585
>ur dumb
>and stupid!
Sure showed him.
>>342644585
>butthurt
Hardly. I'm just wondering why you're acting so agressive without stating anything of substance.
>more of this anger
If my opinion is so unenlightened, point down the road to knowledge. If you can't do that, then we don't really anything to talk about. Besides me getting down on your level and calling you a faggot or something.
>>342644864
I agree with him, the other guy isn't worth replying to in-depth when he says something as dumb as "This is written well, but it's not good writing because it doesn't have a good plot."
The House in Fata Morgana was a surprisingly good vn. It starts out slow, but picks up quickly.
>>342644852
No.
>>342645121
>not worth replying to in depth
Is this how bait works?
>>342635372
There it is.
>>342645039
>point down the road to knowledge
Stop putting plot on a pedestal it doesn't belong on and think you have the authority to call prose that doesn't focus on it "not good writing". Any English professor or author would laugh you out of the room just like we are.
>>342644251
Maybe because you didn't read actual Japanese literature?
No self respected writer will waste his time writing vn and anime plots
See Lost Odyssey side stories as example of that person who write actual books can do
It's just like voice acting, no matter how much weebs fap on their professionals, they are still mediocre garbage(Souls/Bloodborne, for western localization were hired real actors and for gook ones usual anime garbage)
Why it's so hard for people to understand that talented people wouldn't waste their time on such medium
A story can have good writing, but good writing doesn't necessarily mean a good plot.
Can we settle this now? Story telling and writing are two different things.
>>342635372
>>342633448
>people
>implying everyone around me isn't some sort of android
that's exactly what an android would say
>>342633448
>There are people who think there's good writing period
It's all subjective.
>>342645334
Okay, so good characterization, a strong three act plot, and a memorable conflict with a flesh-out protagonist and antagonist are not objective measures of a book's quality?
Because that's all I said. If a book doesn't have most of those things, I find it to just not be good. Still doesn't make it a bad read.
Apparently I found an opinion to trigger people next time I'm shitposting.
Visual novels are literally Japan's version of "cinematic shit"
Prove me wrong
>>342633448
>bait
lol u r bootyblasted aren't u?
>>342645676
>it's subjective
Transformers
>>342633448
Name any piece of writing more high quality than the plane scene from the batman movie. You literally can't, there's never been a more quotes scripted written.
>there are people that legitimately think 'good writing' isn't a buzzword
>>342645891
Nope. Not at all. If it has all that and isn't written in good prose, it's not going to be a book I like, so it's not an objective measure. Like another guy said a few posts above, you're confusing writing for storytelling and have an ridiculously strict definition for the word "book".
>>342645527
don't forget that no matter how good a story's plot is bad writing will kill it
The same way bad acting and cinematography kills movie even if it has a decent plot
>>342646032
I don't think you know what any of those words mean.
>>342646297
You can't have any of those without good prose too. But a good book to me is the model with execution of all the parts relying on the writer's ability to convey and produce prose with a definable and memorable flow to it.
Ulysses and most of the other modernist novels I handled have read not as books but slice of life through the eyes of a character where the barrier between the reader and character was so thin that it bled through.
It seems a disservice to call that a book to me. As I wouldn't hand it off to anyone by calling it a good book.
>>342646075
>implying RotF had writing
>>342646821
>implying Michael Bay even had a script.
>>342646949
>Plot
>Product placement
>Product placement
>Plot
>Product placement
>Product placement
>Product placement
>Plot
*Remember to add in confusing fight scenes after the plot to thin out budget
>>342647140
>implying he didn't just make the robot fight scenes first and then told his interns to fill out the rest.
>>342646807
Like I said, a ridiculously narrow definition of what a book should be, and a bizarre assumption that if prose isn't focused on forwarding a plot it's somehow lesser and not as good as it could be.
Your opinion on favoring plot is fine, just don't let it restrict things like what you call a book or what all writing should aspire to be, that's just your autism and chances are if you ever share that with others you'll get people acting as bothered as they are in this thread.
>>342647363
If the prose isn't focused on forwarding a goal of any sort then it's less than what it can be.
To me the end goal that should be aspired towards is that good book. But I never discredit experimentation or purposeful abandonment of of these standards I judge.
I just won't see it in the same light.
And when it comes down to it, none of this really matters if your writing is paying the bills till you're in the ground...
>>342645383
There's a handful of anime with real good writing but a vast majority is middle school tier meant for mindless escapism
>>342648538
Name some that aren't:
>Bebop
>Gits
>Lain
>Eva
>>342648538
Name them
>>342648819
Writing is mediocre/bad
They were good because good directors
>>342648819
LoTH
texhnolyze
shigurui
>>342648819
>eva
>bebop
>good
I never really liked F/SN. I think I took it too seriously while playing it. It just felt like a drag.
>>342651762
her anus squelched on me like a vacuum in space
>>342633448
>no vn has ever had good writing
Okay vn master
>>342640262
Yeah I love the story, characters, and feel of it. You should give it a try. If there were any plot holes I missed them.
>>342643363
So then you've played through the whole game?
>>342636096
>Typically means the author had a thesaurus next to him and used the most complicated words he could possibly use
don't do this
using complex/obscure words all the time just makes your work tedious to read
>>342642528
this is just bad advice though
a thesaurus is a useful tool to help your writing be less repetitive
you can only use the same adjective or verb so many times before you start sounding like an illiterate retard who writes at a 5th grade level
>>342637659
>>342638382
>implying Sanderson is animu
Now wait a second, that's preposter-
>kawaii street rat becoming bonafide superhuman badass
>becoming so legendary that you and your friends are religious figures hundreds of years later
>a man whose immortality is so ingrained by his gold strength that he can blow his own head with a shotgun off and regenerate it in mere seconds
>a shapeshifting monstrosity who willfully chooses to be a amazonian titty monster and enjoys it
>a guy who shapeshifts by wearing hats
>men in badass fantasy armor
>men in badass fantasy armor that summon huge swords using dramatic heartbeats
>men in badass fantasy armor that summon huge swords using dramatic heartbeats being one man armies unless its against another user
>elementals being present in the world, but made of concepts/emotions
>armor is powered by dead elemental spirits
>a guy who's so goddamn honorable he literally gets his power from an elemental of honor
>his name rhymes with paladin
>a main heroine whose special power is lying
Jesus christ. Not that I don't love it, but jesus christ.
>>342633448
Nothing has good writing, not even your life, OP.
>>342648819
The Mongatari series and Katanagatari
Kuuchuu Buranko
Tatami Galaxy
Higashi no Eden (from purely the writing)
most of Shinsekai Yori
I agree that most is mindless escapism though
>>342636095
looks like someone can't handle the Juice
>>342636372
This is what I gather from people who read VNs.
Even though a VN is essentially a glorified picturebook, people who read them do not go to them for the same experience they would get from a traditional novel.
They're in it for the characters most specifically, and slightly less often they're in it for an emotional or exciting plot.
A VN is useless without strong characterization. One of the biggest differences between VN writing and novel writing is that the majority of VN writing tends to be dialogue while novels tend to be majority narration.
>>342633448
they are like really short,you can't get the 100% of the story without compressing it/changing it abit so it can fit in a short visual novel.And except that,I believe a book could give a significant more precise edition of the story than a VN.Set aside their story quality ofc.If the story sucks balls,no matter what way you use to publish your story,it will still suck.Also taking into consideration the fact that it is for Japanophile audiences,most of them will be the ones with the retarded fanservice,soooo yeah.
>>342652495
>The Mongatari series and Katanagatari
lol
>>342633817
ZnT really was terrible though and that ending was just downright shit. Lisa was cute and a shit cook.
>>342648538
The vast majority of every medium is garbage.
>>342648819
Everything by Ikuhara, for starters.
>There's people that legitimately think every instance of a medium is of the same quality
>>342652871
they already lost count of the generals
two times at least
>>342644612
Honestly, and even while I like and enjoy the stuff, this is true.
Every japanese story is either a cliche played completely straight or a deconstruction of that cliche. They also use the same premises, over and over.
>>342634136
seriously, it had such a solid plot until they added that dumb bitch.
What other anime were ruined by 1 character that was added/introduced?
>>342652380
>a shapeshifting monstrosity who willfully chooses to be a amazonian titty monster and enjoys it
Sign me the fuck up, is this mistborn or something?
>>342633448
999 was pretty clever.
Apparently the guy has done nothing but rehash the same story over and over, though. Kind of drops it down a few notches 2bh.
>>342652871
I honestly don't understand how you can continuously have a discussion about this game and not get bored
>>342652871
>he thinks thats the actual number
They lost count after the first 2000 and the second lot before they had to start again from #1. I'd say its somewhere past the 10,000 mark by now.
>There are people who fell for writing and reading books
Holy shit you fags literally fell for civilizations oldest me.
>>342652994
Evangelion.
>>342653198
t. uncultured american
>>342653060
They don't discuss the game, that's how. /ksg/ is essentially its own board with its own topics, and is by and large treated as a mini-r9k.
When they're not doing that they produce OC that is often only tangentially related to the game, such as fanfiction.
>>342633817
Watching this with/a/was the only redeeming thing about ZnT
>>342653032
Mistborn's sequel series, which takes place centuries after the first.
>>342633448
>there's people that legitimately think videogames have ever had good writing.
>>342653248
It's natural to resort to memes when you figure out your entire life is a lie I guess.
>>342653390
NieR
Lost Odyssey
Spec Ops: The Line
Mother 3Undertale
etc
>>342633448
>Ace Attorney didn't have good writing
Get that shit outta here
>>342646546
Not an argument.
>>342637659
WHERE'S THE THIRD STORMLIGHT NOVEL
REEEEEE
>>342652495
>Mongatari series and Katanagatari
How?
All I see from that shit is people posting webms of fanservice and characters bending their heads in poses that should snap their fucking necks
>>342648819
Welcome to the r9k
>>342652495
>The Mongatari series and Katanagatari
>>342633448
>There's people that legitimately think animes have good writing
>>342633448
More like Thank You, No Terror
>>342652495
>shinsekai yori
>>342638470
from the city to this frontier
Recommend me a VN better written than Monster Girl Quest
>>342655053
>there are people who only watch uninspired seasonal garbage
>posts American television reaction image
>any authority on quality whatsoever
When you're finished with your Call of Duty match maybe check out Tokyo Godfathers.
>>342654320
in the food bombs
>>342655626
Breaking Bad is unanimously agreed upon to be a masterpiece, and is better than anything to ever come from Japan.
>>342654761
You should probably watch it since the visuals are sometimes fairly disconnected from what is going on or mere allegory that doesn't make sense on it's own and both the dialogue (which is the central part of the show) and character development is great.
https://youtu.be/-jm-xrO2c_0
>>342655792
lol
>>342655870
Weeb faggot.
>>342655626
sauce?
>>342655920
(´･ω･`)
>>342654761
You're right it's pretty much
>muh art
>it's art so of course she's naked
>2depp4u
>>342637156
Only RPGs really need a good, dedicated writer. They suffer horribly if there isn't one. As for everything else, as long as the creative direction is up to snuff, it shouldn't need much in the way of story going on. This is coming from someone who loves vidya stories, and story-heavy games.
A well-constructed setting with good lore is much more important than actual quality of writing. When you write a videogame, you're writing the setting, and hopefully leaving much of everything else untouched.
>>342638869
>My mfw
>>342635802
>Dostojevskij
Jesus fucking Christ, you might not like the guy but don't butcher his name
I liked Sharin no Kuni
>>342655854
>not available in your country
>>342656860
>what is ytd unblocker
>>342652380
/lit/ approved
>>342640262
Well, time travel is one of those things that is always going to get fucked up. The best movie about time travel, Primer, is basically about why you shouldn't time travel.
>>342633448
>clear water hides nipples
>>342633448
>>342633941
>>342633817
>>342634136
>>342638996
>ZnT
What is the full name of this show?
Enough writing crap, waifu time
>>342633817
Indeed
Yoko Kanno can do no wrong
>>342634136
YER KIDDIN
>>342659720
I haven't even played DR2 and I can Maizono in an apron is a fucking cunt.
Celestia has the best breakdown so she's ok.
>>342659623
Zankyou no Terror
>>342660146
*can tell
>>342660146
>I haven't even played DR2 and I can Maizono in an apron is a fucking cunt.
what
>>342654957
>Katanagatari
>bad
>>342660241
>>342660146
Oh you mean Mikan.
It's funny because their personalities are very different.
>>342660283
She looks like Maizono to me for some reason. Probably the hair and sameface.
>>342652495
>no mention of anything by Satoshi Kon
>>342660434
go play SDR2, it's better than DR1
>>342660530
Alreadytorrentedit when it came out on PC. I just keep forgetting to play it like Umineko.
>>342660792
>tfw almost beat the first game, took a break, and came back to all my saves being broken
>>342661348Junko is the mastermindthe Junko that died was her sister Mukurothe mastermind is a bored teenaged girl who caused the apocalypse because she could
>>342661498
I knew all that. It broke right in the middle of the final case withJunko.
>My smartest moment ever was predicting your second spoiler
I don't remember how but everything clicked so naturally then.
>>342661680
>Smartest moment
>Not predictingAsahina'sfaggotry in "that" investigation before the trial
