How can people seriously think that Morrowind is in any way superior to Oblivion or Skyrim?
Wanted to start playing Morrowind because I loved Oblivion and Skyrim and many people praise it as the best of the Elder Scrolls games.
Made a character and started playing. After fighting like 3 times I realized how fucking shit this combat system is. Why would you not let the character do dmg even if you clearly hit your opponent?
I wanted to start over and since the overall looks of the game was really not too good I started modding a bit of the looks. Wanted to still hold on to the vanilla feel so I didn't mod too much, just so it looks a bit better.
Wanted to play a mage this time since the melee combat didn't really impress me. I chose everything that could contribute to a pure mage in character creation.
In fights still somehow I can't fucking kill more than one enemy without running out of mana.
Is this some kind of joke?
Why would you do this?
The fighters can't hit the target and the mages can't do spells.
Maybe Morrowind excels Skyrim and Oblivion in having more decisions and overall a better rolaplaying experience but god damn it. The actual gameplay is fucking trash.
>>342490474
100% agree
nostalgiafagging at its worst
>inb4 "just intell le mod to make it not shit"
just like you install mods to make skyrim not shit, except that for morrowind you install mods to make it playable
My favorite is daggerfall. Its filled with bugs and requires autism to be played and enjoyed, but I don't go around pretending that it is the best in the series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7u0Ld3fiWg
>>342491306
>*miss*
>*miss*
>*miss*
>*miss*
even though it was clearly hitting, nice gameplay
>>342490474
Base Morrowind's mana system is absolute bullshit, mod that shit to natural regen.
Combat is dicerolls, you'll have to deal with that. Arrow clearly hit? Nah it was actually a shit shot. Swing missed? You done fucked up and you're imagining things. Deal with it, or don't. Think of attacking as a generic "Fight" button on some RPGmaker shit.
>>342490474
Bait right?
If not, surely you can't be this goddamn stupid.
>>342491012
>skyrim
>playable
Speak for yourself normie
It's an RPG
>>342491913
Not an action RPG
>>342491878
>pres attack button on skyrim
>it attacks the enemy
>press attack button in morrowind
>MISS
>Cast spell in skyrim
>spell is casts
>Cast spell in morrowind
>MISS
>>342491847
Oh please explain faggot I would like to here you disprove OP
>>342492059
Even Diablo 2 (that's what action RPG means, right? It's the same as hack & slash?) had attacks that missed even though the animation looked like it hit
>>342490474
I'd pick Morrowind's stat-reliant battle system any day over the later games' haphazard swinging until one combatant keels over.
And I never played any TES games as a kid, so there goes your nostalgia argument.
>>342491913
TES games have always been action RPGs dumbass.
>>342491762
/thread
newfags can fuck off
>>342490474
>an Elder Scrolls game
>focusing on combat
You don't know what you're talking about, kid.
>>342491878
Ah! I forgot
>Press forward in skyrim
>it moves forward
>Press forward in morrowind
>Crawls forward at snail pace
>>342492391
That's why you get the boots of blinding speed.
>>342492391
>playing Breton
>>342490474
Yeah, I could say the same about the combat, but I went in knowing what to suspect from it. Its pretty much turn-based without the turns, which I find it to be the main problem with the combat. Constant staggering is a bitch so always drink Stam potions or get fucked, then while you're getting fucked you'll get fucked more on the ground, and honestly just feels unfair when you cant maneuver to different commands as fast as oblivion or skyrim to prevent that. The whole game as a whole is enjoyable, but if you go into the game with an oblivion and skyrim mindset, you're not at all going to enjoy it. And if so its sometimes feels like a stress test with the combat. Me, I really dont mind. I still like it and honestly would rather play it right now than skyrim. (if only because morrowind is the first game THAT I COULD CHEESE IT LIKE A PRO!)
I love Morrowind bait threads.
It's always the same thing, every single time. "OMG I jus picked dis game up it suuuuck!"
It'd be nice if you guys could try a little harder.
>>342491762
in rpgmaker shit I don't miss one out of 37 times when I attack
the acceptable should be the opposite
>>342492254
You do realize that since Arena you had invisible die rolls in the combat?
Holy shit /v/ fucking kill yourselves you can't into rpgs to save your lives
>>342492513
ok
What is CHIM?
>>342492569
>the acceptable should be the opposite
36 misses out of 37 attacks? sounds like you wanna play XCOM
>>342492597
Fuck you, is what it is.
Dumping old screens because why not.
>>342490474
everytime
>>342492367
And how exactly is one major aspect of the game more or less important than another major aspect?
Combat is the thing you do at least 50% of your gaming time. Who the fuck stands around and talks to NPCs for more than 2 min?
>>342492496
>the game has this crippling fault
>lol, no worries, it includes a shitty item to palliate it, this means the problem is not even there
Also, I have to play blind and pretty much forced to use those boots if I want to get anywhere?
>>342492501
>if you want to play the game don't use this race
I find hilarious how another anon says "its about the lore" and you are now trying to tell me that its my fault some races are unplayable
>this thread
>>342492697
Senpai, I play Fallout 2 and miss way less than in morrowind
I did Knots' guide ages ago but then never really played the game and lost the installation
Should I do the guide again (I know it's not up anymore, but it's archived) or is the overhaul mod good enough by now?
Morrowind is the more complete rpg. i'm sorry the bad graphics and reading hurt your eyes. I would suggest playing the witcher, the rpg sexperiences will cum full circle and it's audio read so you should be able to 'get' into it.
>>342492794
>Combat is the thing you do at least 50% of your gaming time
In Skyrim maybe. Not in Morrowind.
>>342492807
>a hurr de durr having magical items that alleviate a game's shortcoming is bad!
Then pray tell why do youuse Fast Travelin Skyrim?
>>342492830
>>342492779
>nanana I can't hear you you are just a newfag nanana
>>342492908
But you just said you don't miss 1/37 attacks in RPGmaker and the opposite is acceptable
so it sounds like more miss chance makes you happy
>>342493009
If you wanted more TES reaction images you could have just asked.
>>342492505
This
>>342492980
>Ahh yes, we've been expecting you. You'll have to be recorded before you're officially released. There are a few ways we can do this, and the choice is yours.
>>342492980
>a hurr de durr having magical items that alleviate a game's shortcoming is bad
I love that strawman
a game has a problem
There is item that doesn't solve the problem, only alleviates it and you are pretending as if because of that the problem didn't even exist
>>342493026
I'm not even going to rewrite that post because you perfectly understand what I meant and are just trying to nitpick a pointless argument
>>342493271
INTERESTING.
>>342492740
Reinforcements coming through.
>>342492910
don't know how it was before but I followed this guys instructions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVvSiiEbtuQ
turned out way better than vanilla
>>342493271
What's even the fucking point of the default classes? For idiots who are too afraid to pick their own major skills on their first playthrough?
>>342493310
>you are pretending as if because of that the problem didn't even exist
If I was pretending the problem doesn't exist because of the Boots of Blinding Speed, why would I have silently criticised your choice of playing as a Breton?
You don't make a lick of fucking sense, mate.
>>342493120
not him, can you post more?
>>342493509
>>342492569
"rpgmaker shit" is significantly younger than the pen & paper roleplaying systems on which Morrowind is based.
Go back to CoD, babby.
>>342492807
Actually if you use a resist magicka spell 100% for 1 sec, then equipt the boots, you won't be blinded and you still run at 200 speed
Anyone has cool shit to do? I've just finished the main story line and I'm way too overpowered. Can't kill Vivic yet, but any other enemy in the game I one hit.
>With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.
Morrowind isn't everybodies cup of tea. I for one loved it but I get the hate for the combat. Early levels are rough and an absolute grind but to me getting a skill to 100 and it never missing again was extremely satisfying. With everything being skill based it means that while graphically, yes, you did swing a sword through the enemy, game play wise he was able to dodge it basically. So if youre not willing or able to fill in the gaps as to why you're constantly missing then it's probably not the game for you. However if you DO stick with it and go in with a specific build and not deviate from it you'll have a great character that is a ton of fun to play once your stats are improved. Not to sound like an asshole but it's not a game for casuals really and if you started with oblivion or skyrim don't even bother because it will be too different and grindy for you most likely.
>>342493448
pretty much
i never picked the default ones even on my first playthrough i just picked random skills and winged it not know what to expect.
>>342493379
>Morroshits think this is a big game world
Loving every laugh.
>>342493498
what's with the non sequitur?
that's also another problem, some races not being playable. And you have the audacity to pretend that its my fault for choosing breton that I can't play the game properly
>>342493629
I play arena and daggerfall
I DON'T MISS AS MUCH AS I DO IN MORROWIND
I want you to think about that
>>342493636
and how am I supposed to know this?
In no other game i need to do this just to be able to get anywhere
Morrowind actually has the RPG element to the game. Skyrim is simply an Open world action game. You're stats don't matter as much in combat or decision making. Stats in morrowind feel more meaningful and show the reward of having a high stat in the game than compared to Skyrim Oblivion to a certain extent.
>>342493597
don't be like that
>>342493727
>thats the whole island of Vvardefell
>>342493727
You know what the problem with open world games these days is? Obsession with sizeyes yes penis jokes huehue
Morrowind is small enough that most of the shit is still handcrafted instead of throwing you into a boring world with nothing to find like Skyrim
>>342493629
even more, I go on /tg/ and play more pen and paper rpgs than I play videogames
I don't miss as much in DnD than in morrowind
for fucks sake, I don't even miss as much in DARK HERESY
>>342493770
>some races not being playable
Huh? But you can play a Breton perfectly well with Boots of Blinding Speed. And if the problem (yes, problem, Morrowind has problems) of Bretons' natural Speed stat being low is too much for you, you can use the Bretons' other strength - magic, alchemy - to boost it up.
Use what your character is strong at to bolster what they are weak at. You know, kind of like you do in RPGs.
>>342494006
>can play a Breton perfectly well with Boots of Blinding Speed
that's far from perfectly, you cunt
MAGE CAN'T DO SPELLS
HE HE HE
LOOK AT ME
>>342494006
He's obviously talking about silt striders not being playable
>>342492505
Whether you get staggered is determined by your agility. Armor does not help; the stagger roll is done against base (before armor reduction) damage. You'll only get knocked out from low fatigue if you take fatigue damage (from being punched) that takes your fatigue below zero. Also, for reference, zero fatigue multiplies all your rolls by 60%.
It's another of those you had to be around at the time games
Consider that Daggerfall itself was pretty groundbreaking
>>342494103
Don't give a shit about your joke, am just mad about the collectathon open world meme
>>342494139
You know, that IS pretty shitty.
>can't tower over everything like a motherfucker
>can't AEEEEEEEOOOOUUUWWW on demand
Why live?
>>342493958
This is because of the fatigue system. You're rolling dice like in a roll20 game like D&D except your roll is cut by a % depending on how full your fatigue bar is. If you spam attacks you're going to miss a fuck ton, but if you keep your fatigue up you'll wreck shit.
>>342494132
Is this good enough that ask for source?
MORROWIND THREAD
>miss
>miss
>muh combat
>muh lore
>CHIM
>fargoth
>le scum meme
>>342494132
who is that
>>342493856
why do people think that you can't do proper RPG in Skyrim? Role playing is most of the time most dependent on the player. Sure you don't suck entirely with warhammers if you build a mage character but why would I use the warhammer in the first place? Skyrim gives you the option of using various skills and this is basically everything that is necessary for role playing.
The variety of choises and impact of your choises in the world could be a bit better, I give you that.
>>342492807
the game gives you alternatives, if its speed is such a problem to you then make a fast character.
Its your own fault that you can't deal with the fact that the game is an RPG.
The fact that the game doesn't let you do everything you want from the start isn't a bad thing in an RPG, if you think otherwise go play an 'rpg' like fallout 4.
>>342494389
>roleplaying is solely about your combat build
wat
>>342490474
You're absolutely right, Morrowind's early game combat is trash. Things get fun later when you've bulked up and learned all the good spells.
>>342494335
>>fargoth
Step aside. New king's in town.Think you could part with, say, fifty gold?
>>342491712
Do you get this assblasted when you see a character swing and the animation connects with the enemy sprite/model but misses in a cRPG or jRPG? If so then video games are not for you. If not then kindly fuck off.
>>342494458
Oh yeah I remember seeing a video of her
>dat completely fake pseudo-agehao every time
At least she does nice anal stuff
>>342490474
>I've never played an actual RPG in my entire life
>>342493727
That's Stirk. It's not supposed to be a huge island.
>>342493770
>how am I supposed to know that?
By using your mind whem experimenting what is possible.
>>342494298
>This is because of the fatigue system
which is shit and a mistake, you don't even need to explain it to me, I know why it is shit
ah, that doesn't happen in D&D by the way. It doesn't happen in daggerfall or arena either. I don't know why the fuck they put that mechanic in the game but it definitely ruins it
>>342494448
no fuck you because it isn't even that the only problem and I don't need such dedication when other games, including earlier ones, aren't so punishing when you don't create your character perfectly and know what to do from minute 1
Also it isn't only the speed of the game
is the miss miss miss miss with both fighting and magic
>>342494683
>by trial and error
That's called bullshit
>>342494509
This motherfucker right here, the bane of my existence, i went out of my way to come back stronger just to fuck his shit.
>>342494132
>2016
>still posting that tranny on my board
>>342494509
fuck of filthy bosmer
>>342494797
>miss with magic
Now I know you've never even played the game
Morrowindfags are the fucking worst. I'll completely agree that the setting is gold, but
Combat was total ass. The dialogue system was largely canned responses everyone shared, except for some context-sensitive shit that was still repeated, and linear conversation paths when they were an important NPC. I miss immersive features like being able to eat emeralds, too.
Porting the quests and setting to Skyrim would be a straight upgrade.
>>342494450
no but it is most of the time your major trait.
>>342490474
i played this when i was 10 and had a great time absorbing the atmosphere of the game and learning its secrets. combat is but one aspect of this game but if it turns you off that much then you'll just have to go on unfulfilling the nerevarine prophecy for the rest of your life.
>>342494797
what im saying is, you can either make a character that addresses the problems you personally have with the game, you can be patient and level your character until your problems are resolved or you can just accept that older RPGs are not for you.
>>342494389
>Role playing is about choosing your means of causing damage.
Congratulations you've taken the title for dumbest shit I've read about role play mechanics in a Bethesda game award, previous winner was someone asserting that the loss of skills in Fo4 would increase depth by giving time back to the player because they wouldn't be micromanaging skills.
>>342495093
Not that guy but I would call a miscast a miss
>>342495019
No?.… NO? You don't say "no" to me! NO ONE SAYS "NO" TO GAENOR! Oh, don't you think I'll forget this. I'll remember you, Anon, and I'll get you for it. I promise you that!"
>>342495093
miscasts
>savagely beat an NPC with my quarterstaff
>clean, solid hits, again and again that are misses are near no damage
what. the. fuck.
Witcher 3 is closer to the intent of Morrowind than Oblivion or Skyrim. RPG's are about putting you in a world, not necessarily conforming to gameplay conversions that reward your reptile brain at will.
>>342495158
You play the role of Dragonborn in Skyrim, how is that not roleplaying? You can even choose if you wanna be a mage role or a stealth archer role
>>342495238
'~'
*click*
'kill'
>>342495153
>older rpgs are not for you
I love Arena and daggerfall, fallout 2 and every retro jrpg you can think of such as final fantasy 3 on the NES
Don't talk shit
>>342494546
>being this mad
>>342495295
>be a mage
>try to hit things in melee combat with no training
>is surprised he can't hit shit
honestly the way I see the combat is that when you physically aim and connect the attack that's just showing that you're swinging in the right spot. He still has the opportunity to block or dodge your attack, or it could be a glancing blow or too weak to pierce their armor.
>>342495467
somehow i doubt you've played arena or daggerfall longer than 10 minutes
>>342495309
lel. reminds me off that one image where every race turns out as an stealth archer. don't have it unfortunately
>>342495238
say hello to my 40lvl nerevarinethat was the time when i first killed him, fair fight desu but not as hard as as everyone said
>>342495623
This is retarded justification and you know it.
>>342495295
Have the people that shitpost about missing never gotten past level 3? Because past that point I rarely missed at all. Or did they not pick a weapon as one of their major skills?
>>342495747
that is your retarded opinion and you know it
>>342490474
I'll bite.
Combat is dice rolls. You need to keep your fatigue high so you don't get tired, and use a weapon that goes along with your weapon skills. Low fatigue and low weapon skills will make you miss a lot. Also hold down the attack button for half a second rather than rapidly clicking it.
Mage needs magicka restoration potions. Period. So alchemy comes in handy. I don't think magic can mechanically miss (though I could be wrong). You can either fail to cast it due to low skill/fatigue, or the enemy can resist/absorb/reflect it.
You move slow and most NPCs and some creatures move slow. It sucks and there really isn't a reason for it. I just finished doing 100 hours on one character and the whole time I wore the Boots of Blinding Speed.
Also, the cliffracer threat is real. I forgot how bad it was to travel through Vvanderfell after playing for a while. I saved Solstheim for last and my god was there a difference. I mean sure there were packs of bears, wolves and reiklings everywhere, but I could levitate overhead without being chased every 5-10 seconds.
Earlier TES fans consider Morrowind to be dumbed down and a step away from an RPG. To say nothing of how other RPG fans file about TES as a whole.
Just like people who started with Oblivion or Skyrim are quick to defend or look past their many flaws - you do the same with morrowind because it was most likely your first TES and possibly even your first RPG.
For the record I like morrowind, and it was my first, but I admit it's magic system is dogshit, that it's quests are mostly boring fetch quests padded by the terrible stamina system.
>>342495467
>>342495645
>nanana you are just lying
that's the cuntiest move ever
lv 7 only because I started a new game recently
>>342495692
protip: most shit gets reposted on reddit so much that you can just google it
I was happier when 4chan was a sekrit club but oh well
>>342495747
I think its a good enough justification. Wanna explain why its not?
>>342495883
I am sorry, even though you clicked to quote and reply to me, your (You) missed because your shitposting skill is too low.
>>342495797
Why would I play a shit game that punishes my skill and instead slavishly rewards me putting an arbitrary amount of points into a skill? This is why Skyrim is GOAT and Morrowind is forgotten.
>>342495963
>It's magic system is dog shit
It's the best in the series.
>boring "fetch quests" padded by the terrible stamina system
How to show you never played a game 101.
Magic system has 0 flaws, the whole boring fetch quest complaint being laughable on its own is made even funnier by saying it's "padded by a terrible stamina system considering having no stamina in your bar you could still run and do your supposed fetch quests.
Nice bait post, kid.
>>342495797
these people only play for like 5 minutes and get upset that they arent steamrolling everything they come across with their mage spec character, and complain thtat they're missing everything when they have an empty stamina bar and no weapon skills.
>>342493856
Morrowind is the only - and I literally mean the only - game that I can think of which has a fantasy world that feels like it could be a real place. It seems to make sense and be consistent.
Why do I claim that? Multiple reasons:
>Several religions
>Several political factions
>Political invaders/conquerers
>Racism
>Foreigners and natives clashing
>False information
>People lying, people thinking they're right when they're not
>You actually have to make some decisions and can't be the king of everything
>People seem to have ambitions
I mean, the game has flaws, sure, but Morrowind as a world in a game is the best and most coherent fantastical place in videogames I can think of.
>>342496129
Because a game shouldn't 100% ignore player input in favor of numbers alone. This is why so many combat mods rip that mechanic out. It is mentally jarring to dodge enemy attacks manually and carefully land clean blows with full stamina only to be told nothing happens.
>>342496221
>implying skyrim's leveling system isn't horseshit
>implying skyrim's leveling system managed to somehow be worse than oblivion's
>>342492597
It's bullshit spouted by a so-called "God" with no proof of actually existing.
>>342496035
I lost it at the redguard piracy thing
>>342496010
ARE YOU BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO ROLL FOR DAGGERFALL?
How can people seriously think that MSG is in any way superior to MSG2 or MSG3?
Wanted to start playing MSG because I loved Big Shell and Tselinoyarsk and many people praise it as the best of the Metal Gear games.
Made a character and started playing. After fighting like 3 times I realized how fucking shit this combat system is. Why would you not let the character do dmg even if you clearly shot your opponent?
I wanted to start over and since the overall looks of the game was really not too good I started modding a bit of the looks. Wanted to still hold on to the vanilla feel so I didn't mod too much, just so it looks a bit better.
Wanted to play a spy this time since the melee combat didn't really impress me. I chose everything that could contribute to a pure stealth in character creation.
In fights still somehow I can't fucking kill more than one enemy without running out of life.
Is this some kind of joke?
Why would you do this?
The fists can't hit the target and the guns can't do shots.
Maybe MSG excels MSG2 and MSG3 in having more decisions and overall a better rolaplaying experience but god damn it. The actual gameplay is fucking trash.
>>342496402
it's not 100% ignoring your input, its taking all of your input into consideration. It's just being tossed in an algorithm with some numbers and spitting out a result.
>>342494458
what is her name?
>>342496035
we have that for oblivion and skyrim, but is there specific one for morrowind?
>>342494546
In CRPG with a combat system like Planescape or Baldur's Gate that's great but in a First Person RPG were you can swing your sword and shield and all that shit it fucking sucks. The reason D&D games do that is to simulate real combat situations in a turn based system but when you already have a far more realistic control system in place adding that on top just fucks everything up and makes it shit. If you choose attack then roll a die to see if it hits that makes sense but when you swing a sword it hits the guy in front of you but it still says miss because an invisible dice roll failed that fucking sucks ass.
Obviously it's because people value things like the world building, story, lore, character skill diversity and aesthetic higher than combat. (Which has improved in every subsequent game, but is still not particularly good.)
Morrowind is a much better RPG, even if the combat is the worst.
>>342496402
>Because a game shouldn't 100% ignore player input in favor of numbers alone. This is why so many combat mods rip that mechanic out.
Nah, it's players wanting to play it as an action game and doesn't really say anything on its own.
>>342496783
just play in third person then faggot
>>342496402
>Because a game shouldn't 100% ignore player input in favor of numbers alone.
What the FUCK is an RPG?
>>342497004
>you just gonna stand there like a lemon?
>>342496373
that list sounds just like Skyrim. except of maybe
>You actually have to make some decisions and can't be the king of everything
not saying this is a bad thing desu
>>342490474
More attention to detail, better writing/story/characters, more freedom in character creation/role-playing.
Daggerfall/Morrowind are rpgs, Oblivion/Skyrim are action games with rpg elements. Rpg's are getting more obscure these days so it makes sense that kids wouldn't be able to go back to them.
>play morrowind as teen who doesn't pay attention to anything
>somehow able to play the game more effectively than OP
I didnt even realize how items stats really worked until years later playing vanilla WoW up to level 25
>>342490474
Learn how to play the game, mouthbreathing faggots.
>>342494458
>342494458
>>342494621
Name?
>>342497004
If Morrwind was an isometric RPG and turn-based, I would be completely fine with missing if I told my dude to attack. But it's not turn-based and it isn't isometric. It's an action-rpg that unwisely held on to older mechanics.
Morrowind is extremely overrated.
>make Breton character skilled in conjuration
>try ancestral spirit out to see how it works
>holy shit it's a fucking spooky skeleton
>get to first cave
>summon spirit to fight off smuggler
>spirit flies under the stairs and gets stuck, smuggler can't even make his way down the stairs as he's stuck on a rock
I don't expect much and the game still disappoints me every time.
>>342496010
well i can see you play faggerfall, but i still dont understand how you couldnt bear with morrowind past level 5, or just reroll your shitty character for one with better weapon skills
Lots of people can't in this thread can't even take the time to learn what the stats do.
>>342496373
>and can't be the king of everything
you kinda can, the only thing restricted are the great houses, everything else can be joined simultaneously
>>342496373
Don't forget the generic infodump NPCs that don't actually feel like people and stand on the same spot all the time.
>>342497443
Not really because they have skill requirements to progress. You can join, but you aren't getting anywhere unless you just mass train all the required skills.
>>342497356
A first person perspective and controls do not make it an action RPG. Its systems are heavily dependent on statistics, not on player input/skill.
>>342497440
Don't forget bitching about MUH LANGUAGE SKILL when Morrowind came out.
>>342494546
No because cRPGs and JRPGS don't pretend to have skill based aiming.
>>342496221
>Skyrim is GOAT
Now THIS is shitposting
>>342496597
khajit used to look cool
>>342497669
>implying anyone old enough to remember is still alive
>>342497559
given that you have near infinite money whats the problem? I didnt even finish the main quest and I had max rank in the Tribunal temple, imperial cult, mage guild and fighters guild, was working my way up thieves and redoran too
as long as you know what you're doing its pretty easy
>>342494621
sauce
>>342496904
That doesn't change anything thing. The game applies tabletop RPG rules and to combat mechanics ripped out from an action game. Compared to other CRPG's the need to swing your sword your self rather than just doing it continuously on their own adds a layer complication that isn't necessary and is fucking annoying and shits up the game. Not to mention the ability to move out of the way at anytime which again fucks things up in a combat situation with these mechanics.
>>342497579
The fact you aim manually and dodge manually for every weapon in the game, and dictate the strength of blows with stamina, are very blatant action-rpg elements.
>>342498226
so are action RPGs just better RPGs?
>>342496306
How is it bait, all the early level quests boil down to fetch quests which are often random caves or ruins in the middle of nowhere. You can run at full stamina but you need stamina to actually defend yourself, and there's no shortage of enemies on the map to defend yourself against. Unlike complaints about combat (which are overblown) this remains an issue well past level 5.
I'm willing to concede magic as more subjective though.
>>342498339
Action-RPGs and pure RPGs are both good. Games that shittily attempt to do both (first Mass Effect, Morrowind) are awful.
>>342498226
Manual camera controls do not make an action RPG
>dodge manually
You don't. It's dictated by your stats.
>dictate the strength of blows
You don't. You decide whether to execute a quick but weaker attack, or hold the attack button to do a proper attack. EVERYTHING else is decided by stats and dice rolls. Just like in an RPG.
>>342497579
The problem is that the first-person view and controls don't mix well with a system dependent entirely on statistics since the controls put unnecessary emphasis on the player's input and their skill compared to how much the game actually uses that information. That's why it works in something like D&D but not in Morrowind.
>>342498549
ME1 is great, stop lying
>>342494458
who dis
>>342494132
>>342494458
>>342496753
>>342497351
Reverse image search actually pulled through name is Lana Rain.
>>342498703
>I anticipate and literally step back and out of the range of an enemy's swing.
That is a manual dodge. You do it all the fucking time in Morrowind. It is an avoidance entirely based on my input and absolutely no stats.
>dictate the strength of blows
>You don't. You decide whether to execute a quick but weaker attack, or hold the attack button to do a proper attack.
So which is it? You just agreed and explained why I'm right but said that's not the truth.
>EVERYTHING else is decided by stats and dice rolls.
Just like how archery is played entirely like an FPS, complete with trajectory and arrow drop-off, or how all my movement in-combat and my aiming with any weapon in the entire game period is dictated completely by me and nothing to do with the stats?
>>342498771
ME1's combat is garbage. You're a paraplegic that can barely aim at the start and by the end you're an infinite ammo perfect accuracy killing machine.
What you RETARDS don't understand is that Morrowind is an RPG NOT an ACTION RPG. There is no"combat system".
IF YOUR CHARACTER IS SHIT AT FIGHTING (I.E LOW STATS) THEN THAT WILL BE REFLECTED. YOU CAN'T RAPE YOUR LEFT MOUSE BUTTON AND EXPECT TO WIN LIKE SKYRIM.
Morrowind is an non-action RPG! The game is focused on making your character more skilled NOT being superficially focused on the player's mechanical skill(which isn't even a thing in newer games, you just spam LMB). Morrowind KNOWS that the player will LMB spam and the game molds around this fact, arbitrating blocking and not pointlessly making it into a mechanic that no one will use anyways.
The core of the problem is that you are viewing the game through the lens of a Skyrim dudebro that wants a "combat system" to dilute the importance of stats and make it so "dude every hit lands even when out of stamina lmao"
>>342499049
BASED
A
S
E
D
>>342499049
thanks anon
>>342499261
this is some absurd hyperbole
>>342490474
>Made a character and started playing. After fighting like 3 times I realized how fucking shit this combat system is. Why would you not let the character do dmg even if you clearly hit your opponent?
Looks like someone rolled a long blade character and used the short blade on the table during the tutorial.
>Wanted to play a mage this time since the melee combat didn't really impress me. I chose everything that could contribute to a pure mage in character creation. In fights still somehow I can't fucking kill more than one enemy without running out of mana.
Do you know how an RPG works? You probably don't considering you played Oblivion and Skyrim before Morrowind.
4/10 bait, you made type a lengthy reply.
>>342499261
>You're a paraplegic that can barely aim at the start and by the end you're an infinite ammo perfect accuracy killing machine
Even just reading that makes me want to replay it
I fucking love RPG power progression
>>342499101
Once again. Controls don't make an action RPG. The underlying system does. Having to aim your character's attacks at an enemy doesn't change a thing about said attacks being ultimately decided by your character's stats. There's no difference mechanics-wise between aiming a bow in Morrowind or aiming your cursor in, say, Baldur's Gate. It's just a control scheme.
>>I anticipate and literally step back and out of the range of an enemy's swing.
I don't know what mods you are playing, but this wouldn't work in the vanilla game. Vanilla Morrowind had massive melee ranges and stuns on successful hits, effectively forcing you to dedicate to running away if you disengaged from an enemy.
>>342498705
the main point of the first person perspective is immersion, not to just make it more of an action game, i think the dice-roll mechanics stuff comes down to personal preference, i can see how it might be frustrating to some people though but just because it isn't to your taste doesn't mean that its inherently bad.
>>342491712
>*hit*
>*hit*
>*hit*
>*hit*
>"Hmm the enemy still fights and shows no sign of having sustained injury despite having been hit by a greatsword several times. Good thing his healthbar tells me otherwise"
The only difference between a hit and a miss is the animation, sound, and decrease in the "health bar". These are not aspects of gameplay, it's just visual.
>>342498795
lana rain, im glad 4chan likes girls again
>>342499325
That's not the problem at you autist. The problem is when you apply action game mechanics to an RPG system like that it creates a disconnect from between the players actual input and the results and it sucks. And saying there's no combat system is ridiculous, if a game has combat it has a combat system, that shit didn't just fall out of the sky someone made it.
>>342499510
>Spend all the endgame walking around holding down the trigger of my assault rifle. It never overheats and my accuracy is nearly always great, but I can blow cooldowns to tighten the accuracy even more. Also I become invincible at random times too.
>>342499879
fggots and trannies are a vocal minority, just like everywhere else on the internet
>>342500012
top lel
>not going full Biotics team
I have fond memories of stunlocking Saren by making him float everywhere
>>342499950
>it creates a disconnect from between the players actual input
>I never played Wizardry
>I never played Might and Magic
>what the fuck is Arena?
First person perspective with mouse controls (better of worse) has been a thing for PC RPGs for ages. You're only going to feel disconnected from it if you: 1) for some reason fully expected Morrowind to be a modern action RPG, or 2) literally began playing video games in 2007.
>>342498549
>Morrowind
wew
>>342500294
>shit gameplay
>everything else was more or less great
doesn't change my point really. Can't wait for Skywind
>>342491012
i agree too bro
>>342491712
>miss miss miss meme
haha, nah, the dicerolls are fine
its the shitty combat animations which totally fucking kill any immersion
DURRRRR PLASTIC ROBOT FIGHT BIRD NOW
>>342499872
agree 100%, the bloated health bars in oblivion at high levels are way worse than low skill level morrowind combat.
at least morrowinds issue gets better as the game progresses while oblivion's only got worse and worse because of the retarded level scaling.
at least they tried to fix that in skyrim but it still feels like some enemies are just damage sponges.
>>342499629
A control scheme makes a huge difference. Aiming and shooting with a bow manually regardless of how much impact this has on whether or not it hits is extremely different then clicking an attack button and making a roll and it caries different expectations in a players mind as a result. If the game was just a first-person Baldur's Gate it wouldn't be a problem but because it demands that player input for so many purely statistic based actions it creates a big complication between what a player does and what happens in the game.
>be playing morrowind for the first time
>playing a wizard
>get up to some trouble
>town gets pissed, they rush to attack
>avoid first blow, back up, swing my staff
>clean blow to the head
>*miss*
>I follow it up
>*miss*
>*miss*
>some fucking elf fucker uppercuts me for all my stamina and 1/4th my hp
>hit the ground
>my jaw is broken
>town surrounds me and starts to savagely beat me
>panic, go into inventory
>just start clicking
>end up eating an emerald and then dying
F U C K T H I S G A M E
>>342500079
yeah but i've not seen them around here lately and that suits me just fine.
>>342500719
>it creates a big complication between what a player does and what happens in the game
No, it doesn't. Having to aim your character at enemies with the mouse is natural for PC RPGs. What do you want, for the game to automagically aim for you? How would it determine what you want to attack? The player has to have some measure of manual control, but the rest is left to the game's internal system. That's how RPGs work.
>even if you clearly hit your opponent
Except you're not you stupid fuck. You're missing and there is even a sound effect to tell you that. The only problem is that there is no animation to go along with it. I would actually like TES VI to go back to this system.
>>342500762
such is life cunt
>>342501063
thankfully the retards who have this opinion, like you, are in the minority and Besthesda will NEVER EVER EVER go back to Morrowshit gameplay.
>>342499325
Morrowind literally is an Action RPG though.
ALL Bethesda games are shit, period.
They're heaps of crude junk. Everything about them screams bargain bin shovelware.
Graphics (especially animations) are embarassing, gameplay is shallow as hell, plots are bland, interesting characters are basically non-existant and they always hire like 5 voice actors for a game. And they're horribly bugged at release to boot.
These games are modding sandboxes but that's it. But even consoleshits gobble their shit up since TES V: arrow 2 da knee xD
>>342501012
It does create a huge disconnect thou, which is why Morrowind's combat is widely hated and will never be returned to.
>>342500405
>shit gameplay
>Can't wait for Skywind
>playing Skyrim
>swing a sword
>enemy blocks
>no damage
wtf this is bullshit
>>342501012
It does. In Planescape I decide on an enemy to attack and then I click on it to attack. That's the necessary amount of control in that system, the aiming and all that is then done by the statistics. That's natural, Morrowind isn't.
>>342501325
It's not the focus of the game. It's more RPG than action.
>>342501849
Modded Skyrim gameplay >> Even the most heavily modded Morrowind gameplay >>>>>> any vanilla Elder Scrolls experience.
>>342501817
It creates a disconnect for people who expect an action RPG (i.e. who are wrong). And of course Bethesda won't go back to Morrowind's system. Action combat takes less effort (especially of the level of quality Skyrim has) and offers instant gratification to the casual player who doesn't want to play an RPG.
It would have been extremely stupid of Bethesda to go back to the old system.
>playing Diablo 2
>swing at a Fallen
>miss even though I clearly hit
Why are old games so shit?
>>342501998
No amount of mods can fix Skyrimjob.
>>342501147
ofcourse they won't because that kind of system needs statistics to work, and by tes vi there will be no numbers to speak of
>>342490474
It's mostly nostalgia.
If you're a youngfag and didn't follow the incremental improvement of games in the years preceeding it you'll never understand how innovative it was
>>342501012
>What do you want, for the game to automagically aim for you?
>VATS in Fallout 3/NV/4 literally does this and everyone likes it.
Uh, yes. Yes it should automagically aim for you.
>>342501882
>In Planescape I decide on an enemy to attack and then I click on it to attack.
Oh, I see. Because in Morrowind you decide to attack an enemy and then click on them to attack. Then the rest is decided by dice rolls. That's completely different.
Is having to manually walk up to the enemy your issue? Is this really it? Are you upset because your character doesn't do everything by themselves?
>>342502075
You are in an extreme minority of Morrowind players. I am glad Bethesda never wants to appeal to you. Pandering to you would create jarring, clunky trainwreck games.
>playing Skyrim
>whack someone in the head with a warhammer (no helmet)
>takes off a sliver of health
Yeah that's so much better
>>342502440
>Pandering to you would create jarring, clunky trainwreck games.
With today's Bethesda? Damn right it would. You're 100% right.
lads, anyone know a good way to level sneak? im trying to gather funds for training but its slow going.
>be peasant
>never used a weapon before
>get off a boat to a brand new world
>sprint around town for a few hours
>completely exhausted, movement slowed to a crawl
>decide im going to pick up a sword and wipe out a bandit cave
>die
fucking dice rolls
>>342502584
Just leave your character in sneak mode in a room with an NPC for a few hours.
>>342502338
People cannot fathom the idea of having to rest incrementally as you move down a path towards a goal in a video game because they do not physically feel exhaustion. It's their ultimate disconnect from Morrowind, apparently.
>man this game looks fun
>decide to walk to Balmora because I wanna explore a bit
>find a cave after 100 meters
>go in
>it has a ghost
>try to magic it
>all attempts fail
>try to hit it
>lmao can't because not silver weapon
jesus christ what a shit game, can't even scale its opening zone properly
Here's what you idiots don't understand. Dice roll combat is there to simulate real combat. It makes no sense for an enemy to just stand there absorbing all your blows with its huge health pool. They would be dodging, blocking, parrying, tiring you out, being a better fighter than you, etc. It makes sense for you to start weak and unable to accurately hit your opponent until you become more skilled. Any alternative to this is a move away from it being an RPG to being purely a casual action game.
>>342502284
OP here. I know that feel. For this reason I will always consider Gothic being the best open world RPG ever.
Objectively I think it is not that good but nostalgia is a strong power.
>>342503295
>implying Dark Souls style combat wouldn't just be a straight upgrade to even the best implemented RPG combat in an Elder Scrolls
>>342503213
>try to magic it
not enough magic skill
>lmao can't because not silver weapon
I can't hit it with anything m8!! LMAO
1go back get weapon that can kill ghost
2profit
also try harder
>>342503649
>kill
>ghost
What the fuck, how stupid is this game?
>>342503295
There is literally no reason to not have animations for those in a first person game. Kill yourself Morroweenie.
>>342503584
>rolling: the game
I think I'd drop the game entirely if that happened.
>>342503649
>1go back get weapon that can kill ghost
yeah because I can totally afford that
how about not designing a dungeon in the beginning area to be literally impossible when you start out?
>>342503813
I agree, they should have had animations. Morrowind's major flaw. If TES VI had the same mechanics but with smoother controls and better animations, it would be a perfect system.
>>342503649
he's joking mane
also for people who dont know, the first merchant sells silver weapons
>>342503946
>yeah because I can totally afford that
why r u playing rpg if you can't fucking solve simple problem.
>enemy to strong for me
I CANT AFFORT TO GO BACK I MUST KILL HIM NAU
Morrowind is for speedrunning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gON5k2kw3as
>>342504218
taking the bait is my secondary skill
>mfw someone near me says they liked Morrowind more than Gothic 2
>>342504592
[You must rest and meditate on what you have learned.]
>>342505205
>rest
>meditate
You're never gonna maximise your stat gains per level with that attitude.
>>342504780
I have no idea why Gothic and Morrowind end up compared.
>>342505493
what?
>>342490474
>Level 1 character
>Why can't I kick everyone's asses yet?
Maybe Morrowind isn't for you.
>>342505634
This is what I fucking loved about those games
They're open world but everything is handcrafted instead of empty copypaste shit
I will never stop being mad about the current open world trend
>>342505767
>level 1 character throwing full force behind a quarterstaff and striking an elderly townwoman in the head.
>*miss.*
>>342505634
because they were two large scale RPGs released within months of eachother. american audiences seem to laud morrowind whereas in eastern europe gothic 2 is considered one of the best games of all time
>>342505810
Because idea of "open world" is appealing if you apply the same carefully handcrafted principle only on grand scale. This modern "just put collectibles everywhere and give player a GPS to find them" is a lazy man's way out and should be insulting to anyone with a brain.
>>342505880
Level 1 guy after months spent in prison then on a prison ship, possibly holding a quarterstaff for the first time in his life.
And the townswoman is on skooma.
>>342490474
It's a better RPG
Its a much worse game
>>342506120
Is their a mod that makes Morrowind's world even more oppressive and brutal? Like, the townspeople are bitter, violent, and on Skooma, and all bandits are nervous, ruthless, and heavily armored? And you start out as a crippled man?
>>342506120
>never held a quarterstaff in his life
>never swung a piece of fucking wood in his life
>>342506110
Yeah eactly. You can probably go bigger than Gothic 2 and still stay interesting, but everyone i always just like "look our open world is 1.5 times the size of the moon"
>>342506272
>all bandits are nervous, ruthless, and heavily armored?Oblivion at higher levels
>>342503946
>beginning area
Morrowind doesn't have such. The world is filled with content that is consistent with itself and not with player needs or demands. If you paid attention to what the npcs were telling you regarding "little advice" and "morrowind lore", you'd learn the rules of that world first, instead of complaining when it kicks your ass.
>>342506492
Oh I'm sorry bro. I was just joking, I love the idea of exploring and ahving to go back to a cave later
this is now a gothic thread
>tfw games these days don't have the glorious progression that gothic had
>"stay out of the forests or you'll die"
>slowly getting stronger
>when you level up your abilities the people teaching you actually tell you about the skill
>best lockpicking ever
>characters actually have unique stuff to say
>finally getting strong enough to take on bloodflies
>go from struggling against bloodflies to oneshotting wolves
>also motherfucking khorinis in gothic 2
so, so good
>>342505880
so you don't like dice-roll, bfd. do you also hate the combat in KOTOR or have you also never played those games?
>>342506834
>play Risen 1
>have to google the best route so I don't end up missing half the game
>>342506861
KOTOR is amazing. It is turn-based, pausable, and you don't manually aim, nor click repeatedly to hit. It's a proper RPG. If Morrowind had KOTOR gameplay it'd be amazing. Instead it has some shitty weird mix.
>>342490474
I bet you were also disappointed by the lack of physics and dual wielding.
THE LORE MAKES IT GOOD I SWEAR
>>342507076
More like they pull a dick move and FORCE you into joining a specific faction if you play the game normally.
>>342507404
Deja vu...this triggered shitposter again.
>tfw running out of mazte and sujamma within sight of the silt strider
>tfw need to hand in that damn puzzlebox
>tfw greedy bastard that never drops loot
i've been picking up and dropping this hammer for the past minute
