> TinyBuild, the developer behind games like Punch Club, Party Hard and SpeedRunners, say that game code marketplace G2A sold $450,000 worth of their products, many of them fraudulently acquired. The ensuing chargebacks put them in hot water with their payment provider and ultimately cost them thousands in lost revenue. Making things even more uncomfortable for them, this all occurred during a window of time that TinyBuild was attempting to formalize a relationship with G2A in order to allow them to sell authentic game keys.
> "Websites like G2A are facilitating a fraud-fueled economy where key resellers are being hit with tons of stolen credit card transactions," Alex Nichiporchik wrote on the official TinyBuild blog. "These websites are now growing rapidly due to low pricing of game keys."
> But the cost of dealing with third-party game code resellers can be significant for game developers and publishers. In today’s post Nichiporchik explains how TinyBuild established a small online store to sell their game codes directly to fans. He claims that fraudsters purchased thousands of codes through the portal, and began selling them on G2A.
>"The shop collapsed when we started to get hit by chargebacks," Nichiporchik said, referring to the process by which credit card processors wipe away fraudulent transactions made with stolen credit cards. "I’d start seeing thousands of transactions, and our payment provider would shut us down within days. Moments later you’d see G2A being populated by cheap keys of games we had just sold on our shop."
Daily reminder: do not buy games from key sites since they hurt the developer. If you want more great games then buy from legitimate retailers!
>>342227993
I'd add add don't use a VPN to buy a game from a cheaper country like Russia or India.
not reading all that
Pure cancer, i would rather pirate than support those sites.
>>342228091
Typical millenial
>>342227993
> retailers
You mean you don't track down the whereabouts of the devs, break into their homes, bruteforce their PCs and retrieve an original copy of the game, after leaving 30 bucks on their work desk?
No wonder PC gaming is dying
>implying his shitty indie game would even get 400k in sales
waah waah
Well, I'm shocked. By the fact that there actually exist people that want to play this shit.
i paid 7€ for battlefield 4 one month ago from a key reseller when it costs 20€ on origin suck my dick
>buying games
Guess you better stop charging triple the amount of the Mobile version when there's no difference in versions if you don't want people using third party sites, then.
>>342227993
Literally communists.
>>342228081
>Don't use a vpn to buy a game for cheaper
Fuck that, I'm not paying £50 for games when I can get them for £20-30. I'm not made of money, what would devs want? Me to buy 1 game or 2?
>>342228091
>prepubescent NEET struggles to read four paragraphs
Your parents were right about you being a failure.
>>342228219
you are missing the point
the important part is (atleast for me) that those keys are bought by stolen credit cards and than resold for cheap, its pretty much money laundering for organized crime of all kinds
i never really thought about that but it makes sense
>>342227993
They key has already been bought and they received money from it. What are they whining about?
>>342228446
It's like you didn't even read
For how big of an issue this supposedly is, I don't see a lot of evidence of it actually working that way. I don't use G2A anyway because it's a possible way to gain control over my account anyway, but still.
>>342228452
>we just buy up cheap keys
Are we having one of those moments?
Something the industry sucks at though is telling the consumers which digital retailers are legit. I don't want to support sites that abuse region pricing or pure fraud to sell cheap keys.
I buy from Steam, HumbleBundle, GreenmanGaming, Gamersgate, Direct2Drive and GoG. I assume that these sites are legit but sometimes i wonder when greenmangaming have new games significantly cheaper than other sites. There industry should really get to informing the consumers about these sites.
>hear about game around release
>seemed potentially interesting
>it's literally twitch garbage
I hope they go bankrupt from this.
Can't give a fuck really. When devs start releasing demos for their games I'll stop pirating and using key sites.
You can buy steam gifts from G2A and Kinguin, Mostly they're games that people saved up from sales and later resell them. I've sold some games that I bought piss cheap from xmas sales.
>>342228549
CJS-CDkeys is decent, usually you get a photograph of the games key from the retail copy they have opened up to get it from. No fraud or anything goes on there just cheap keys from eastern europe or some shit
>>342228549
Seems like there's always some sort of discount coupon for GMG as well.
>>342228452
t. G2A dev
>Sites pop up where you can geat games cheaper out of their control
>Get pissy and start making up bullshit because they can't get 50 bucks for their cinematic walking simulators.
>>342228452
>we
>>342228417
>russian mafia and yakuza launder money by reselling videogame keys
>>342228452
G2A locked my account claiming someone had hacked into it, despite nothing being bought and I could still access my account due to the login cookie still working. When I checked my login history every login was from my computer
They said a "specialist" would contact me, they never did, I'd contact them every week asking when I was going speak to this "specialist". Eventually they told me to make another account
Gee I wonder why G2A would lock an account with €300 of goldmine credit earned and waiting to be spent
This is a lie. G2A does not commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional deals and sales and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342227993
People pay for what they consider reasonable prices, shame they are too retarded to see how fucked the market is for 60 dollarino for a 10 hour game or 40 for a 2 hour walking simulator about feels.
This is a lie. G2A does not commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342228452
Using the ol/' "we" and deleteroonie switcheroo.
>we don't want to beat their price so we'll just insinuate people who buy from them are assholes who stole from us
>>342228417
Is there evidence of this? I noticed the 99% of the time it is some indie studio claiming this shit. Sounds more like being butthurt about it and making false accusations.
>G2A is a scam with credit card fraud infesting it like that one fucked up french cheese
what a fucking shocker, never coulda guessed that
>>342227993
>Create online store that is exploitable
>People exploit it
>"Help I'm being exploited!"
>>342228902
It does happen
Devolver are dicks for deactivating keys though. Even if they key was legitimately bought then resold they will deactivate it
Because apparently reselling things you buy is bad
are we being raided
>>342228895
It's hard to beat literally stealing.
Did you miss the stolen credit card chargebacks?
>>342227993
>don't buy from key sites
>the articles this nigga posted clearly states these keys originated FROM TINYBUILD'S SHITTY SELFMADE INDIE STORE
Yeah no anon, this is at least partially their own fault, those keys didn't come from nowhere, they themselves admitted it was keys from their shitty little shop.
The advice you're trying to give is intended for the devs/game companies, NOT for us. If they'd waited to finalize the deal with G2A for legit keys instead of cobbling together a shop "in the meantime" this never would've happened.
>>342228982
Valve's the only one that can do something about it, but they won't
>>342227993
Welcome to PC gaming: the equivalent of a Russian bootleg economy.
>>342227993
>it's another butthurt indie """"""developer""""" episode
>>342228998
Yes. Ben Kuchera here. We're going to infect all of 4Chan with SJW cooties muhahhhahahSeriously, stop being a paranoid fuck
>>342229045
I'd like to add, I don't use g2a or similar sites nor would I - I prefer to wait for sales on legit stores like Steam, GoG, GMG, etc.
>>342228985
He didn't ask if it happened, he asked if there's evidence of it. Which I personally doubt as well.
>TinyBuild established a small online store to sell their game codes directly to fans
If they don't want to be hit by chargeback they can just pay the fat man 30% per sale
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342228806
Or you can hold off your purchase until the price is right for you. I rarely buy games at launch since few games are worth their asking price but i see no reason to go and get the games through sites like G2A when they most likely will drop in price in the near future.
>>342229162
the same thing happens on other stores
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342229162
Their games are already on Steam
I think Speedrunners was? in the top list of active players for a while
>>342228770
Wouldn't put it above the Yakuza. You do know how Pachinko works since it legally can't be gambling, right?
>do what is in our interests
>don't do what is in your interests
"no"
If those fucking jews didn't overprice their shitty game their wouldn't be any need for sites like this.
>>342229045
They were bought via fraud though
>>342229084
Valve have been doing a lot to stop fraud as there was a lot going on on Steam, if too much happens their payment processors will stop providing services to them and they'll be fucked
They said themselves the trade restrictions on game gifts/dota2 compendiums were to try and stem fraud
>>342229157
Is it really that hard to believe people used credit card fraud to make money from an easy target?
>>342228998
We've already been raided by Reddit years ago, 4chan will never be good again
>>342229045
>Developers aren't allowed to set up their own shop and if they do they are free game to scam and commit fraud against
This is basically what you've just said.
The developer did nothing wrong except maybe make it easy to buy mass quantities of games at once.
>>342229004
Nobody buys from these shady as fuck 'hope the key they give me actually works' websites because they're satisfied with the price listen by the game devs on Steam
>>342229287
this.
they are selling a fucking 25-digit code. that's it. not even in a plastic box with printed art and DVD. fuck off with 60$ digital games
>>342229174
Prices are lowered slower than usual nowadays even during sales, companies are doing everything they can to prevent sales.
Then we have the issue where the game community dies out within a few months because there is zero support beyond launch from the developers.
It's simply not viable to buy full price games at launch and waiting for reasonable price means you have a dead game. I'm not fully advocating buying shady keys is the right thing to do but it's the only option nowadays for most people.
>>342229340
Video games don't get made for nothin
>>342229324
>Is it really that hard to believe people used credit card fraud to make money from an easy target?
That hard being not hard at all? No, obviously not you fucking retard.
I never said I found it hard to believe mate. I would just like some evidence.
>>342229236
triad too man
all those east asian organizations are getting their cut of the videogame market
theyd be foolish not to
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342227993
>G2A sold $450,000 worth of their products, many of them fraudulently acquired
>TinyBuild established a small online store to sell their game codes directly to fans. He claims that fraudsters purchased thousands of codes through the portal, and began selling them on G2A.
So it's either one of those, did they sold it to G2A or did G2A acquired them fraudulently ?
Shit doesnt add up
>>342229390
>It's simply not viable to buy full price games at launch and waiting for reasonable price means you have a dead game.
Stop playing multiplayer garbage and you won't have a problem.
I have to add when you get digital prices rivalling physical copies and even higher without any sort of preorder bonus or collector's version then you know the market is fucked.
>>342229454
They're saying G2A bought them with stolen credit cards. So fraudulent, according to their claims.
>TinyBuild
>>342229387
>years ago
>buy game for normal price
>longass intstruction with tons of artwork, loreand great glue for smelling
>cd
>sometimes soundtrack
where did it all go wrong
>>342229045
The keys were bought from the devs with fake/stolen credit card. The cards were charged back, and then the thief sold the keys to G2A.
I don't see how G2A is to blame, other than being a passive market for thieves to trade in.
It would be like if people were using 4chan to trade CP. Sure, 4chan isn't actually making and trading the stuff, it's just a platform for user content. But at the same time, it isn't allowed to passively allow it to happen either.
>>342229510
Credit cards themselves are fraud. Only debit should be allowed. That way the money deducts directly from an account.
>>342229474
So what you are saying is buy only singleplayer games that you can count on one hand per year release? You do know everything is developed towards online and multiplayer nowadays beyond as said a handful of games.
>>342227993
I did for skyrim because I needed access to the steam workshop but I dont want them to get money
>>342229608
Sounds like a perfect opportunity to work on your backlog.
>>342229326
To an extent, yes. But I mean that in doing so, they knowingly invite potential fraud if they don't take proper precautions, and they're trying to blame a third party, g2a, for it. Note that, despite blaming them now, in the same paragraph it states they were trying to work WITH G2A in the FIRST PLACE, their now-scapegoat.
I just take offense that they're shifting blame to, an admittedly shady, key-selling site that they themselves were "in talks with". It's not G2A's fault by any stretch, they can't verify it any better than the devs' store could have, but when the keys came from THEIR store that may not have been as secure or properly set up, it's not G2A's fault.
>>342229608
>You do know everything is developed towards online and multiplayer nowadays beyond as said a handful of games.
>He only plays western tribbable A trash
I don't know about you but I find enough games to keep me occupied while only playing single player games
>>342229537
>and great glue for smelling
based as fuck
also it started kinda innocent and convenient as a few games were on steam and valve/other devs didn't ask a full retail price for new releases. it was always $49 for a digital copy $59 for physical
now it's $89+ for digital "full" game with season pass meme
>>342229454
the guys that sell on g2a carded shit off the tinybuild store then resold it
>>342227993
I'll go for the cheaper option always.
>>342229717
I'm glad you found yourself occupied with Japanese VN but it's not for everyone.
>>342227993
Memes aside that sucks. I mean those games are cheap as fuck in bundles and in sales, buying from G2A is just being a jerk
>>342227993
Even when they spend actual money, Pcucks can't support the developers. Is it a curse?
>>342229340
There's nothing shady about them and every single keys I've ever bought always worked
Now I dont mind the "shady" reputation, it keep normies away and the system needs fucktards paying 59.99$ on steam to stay alive
>>342229695
There is no proper precautions against people using charge backs. The only thing you can do is disable any keys bought with that specific card once it happens.
>>342227993
>Buying cheap games hurts developers financially
Looks like piracy wins again
Why don't devs just charge less for their games? It's how business works. You need to be competitive.
>>342229790
No, I don't play VNs, only vidja games.
THANKS FOR FREE MARKETING. DON'T FORGET TO BUY OUR GAME FROM OUR STORE. XOXO
Reputable key stores sell scanned in retail keys from Hong Kong or wherever the game is cheap.
If you buy from fucking private Russian key on g2a you are literally retarded
>>342227993
Good, the only way to kill cancerous devs is to buy their games off key sites where they'll lose money compared to just pirating their games.
>>342229818
The good developers are doing just fine.
Notice how it's always the bottom of the bottom, meme trash tier indie devs that are complaining.
>>342229510
>g2a bought them with stolen cards
Nigga what is reading comprehension? G2A doesn't buy with stolen cards, they buy what MAY have been bought with stolen cards under the use of someone else
1) Dev puts up store with games for sale
2) Russian "fraudsters" buy up 100s of keys with stolen credit cards
3) Russians sell to G2A, take profit and run as chargebacks ensue
>>342229474
>waiting for reasonable price means you have a dead game.
If a game you want is dead by the time it comes down in sale, is it really worth your money to begin with? A game that dies rapidly is obviously a shit game.
>>342227993
>it's a pccuck problem
wew mustard my ass
>>342229864
because they still have to make money, commie
>>342229608
>new deus ex
>nier automata
>new god of war
>witcher DLC so long that it might as well be a game
>ni-oh
>final fantasy 15
>doom
>dishonored 2
>mafia 3
>hitman 6
>dark souls 3 (online has always been shit)
>persona 5
>total war warhammer
A FUCKING HANDFUL
>>342229856
There is: don't allow purchases with credit cards ;)
>>342229864
Assuming this story is true, then G2A would just charge less. Unless you sell your game for 0,01$, it's pretty much impossible to undercut G2A.
>>342228390
>what would devs want? Me to buy 1 game or 2?
They want you to buy 1 game for the price of 2
I bought punch club on mobile for $1 and still feel ripped off. Why the fuck would you make a character raising sim where all your stats automatically go down every day?
I buy things from G2A and other sites because they offer prices that I think games are actually worth. Instead of spending 80$ CAD on Doom 4, I can get it for 35$ or so, which is a lot more reasonable for me.
>>342229956
True. Online retailers should only accept stuff like paysafecard or whatever local varieties
STILL surprised hundledundle wont accept PSC
>>342230006
The people who bought Reality: The Game
>>342227993
>If you want more great games then buy from legitimate retailers!
As soon as legitimate retailers reduce their price
thanks pewdiepie
>>342229907
Fine, I don't see how that distinction would matter though. Same shit.
>>342230023
Doom 4 couldn't be made on 35$ per copy though, so basically you would get nothing
>buy from 99-100% sellers from G2A
>never have a problem
>implying G2A sell games
>implying it's not russkis selling their stolen keys with a stolen credit card
>>342228390
That's exactly what they want, for you to buy their game at full prices, hopefully multiple copies and then buy all the DLCs, or else. They don't understand that it's gonna hurt them in the long run and most Denuvo games have flopped, but they will continue to push for this nonetheless.
>>342229167
Part of that is buying up cheap keys from the people committing credit card fraud.
>>342229608
>>342229923
Also forgot xcom 2 and we happy few
15 almost completely singleplayer games that I plan on playing all of them this year
you're fucking delusional if you think single player games don't get made anymore
>>342230102
The Witcher 3 sold on GoG and Steam for 30-40$ I think, plus their DLC and they sold plenty.
I'm not going to pay $60+ for a game I'll only play singleplayer.
>>342229907
its not just "russian fraudsters", stolen credit cards are an market on their own
take a guess what kind of people are involved in it, its basicly the lowest scum from all around the world, drug money, human trafficking, etc
>>342229921
thy sold them for cheaper themselves and they complain about keys being resold for more by not them. typical indie jews in action
>>342230068
The distinction is, legally, huge. It's the different between arresting a murderer or the guy who owns the gun shop that sold him the murder weapon. Arresting the shop owner won't get the murderer off the streets, who would just go to another gun store.
>>342227993
"they bought something cheap that means I lost money!" - millennials on how they think the market works
>>342230193
>I'm not going to pay $60+ for a game I'll only play singleplayer.
You are literally killing single player games. You are responsible for Evolve, Titanfall and MMOFPS.
>>342230207
good. fuck humans
>played GTA V on consoles.
>Think it's very mediocre
>Still enjoy modding gta games and driving around in faster modded cars
>Rockstar and 2k have neglecting pc fanbase by delaying their games on pc yet still charge full price of $60 years later.
>Buy the game on g2a for more than 40% off
>Support Pajeet feed his village
>Rockstar and the 2kjews don't get et a single dime.
A FEELS SO FUCKING GOOD.
I also pirates before but can't bother downloading the shitload of patches for their unoptimized game.
>Do
>make a game
>it's okay, but way too overpriced
>people buy the games in bulk from cheaper sources
>could have just sold the game cheaper and reach a lot more people
greed is a powerful drug
>>342230249
No.
"They bought something cheap which I did not also have the opportunity to buy cheap; this is unfair"
>>342227993
>We lost so much money because they do illegal things!
>We won't press charges tho, mainly because we have no proofs lol
Go to court or shut the fuck up
>>342230207
lmao you make carding seem too sinister
you mean they cost them 450k that they overcharged for their games in the first place trying to rip off people that can afford to pay that much
>>342230246
Not really, the comparison would make more sense with a drug maker and a drug seller, or a thief and a guy that sells stolen shit, both are against the rules. Though I can see that there's a difference legally, in practice it doesn't matter.
>>342230207
Yeah, I prefer to give them money by renting their child sex slaves instead, not through video games.
>>342230317
This desu
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342229971
underrated
>>342230272
You failed to see my point that Witcher 3, a solely based singeplayer game, did amazingly well.
the reason we got Evolve/Titanfall/The Division is because shitty companies want to appeal to a large mass while trying to appear hip and cool about it, yet retain no passion in their games.
so they all dropped hard. I didn't buy any of those games, either.
>Buy game from key store
>key already in use
>shit
>email them
>actual live chat with employee within 5 minutes of writing the email
>they apologise
>get replacement key after 10 minutes
>works
even chink keystores have better customer support than Steam
>>342230163
if that was true, they would be closed by now. These stores have been around for years, and Steam already locks fraudolently-acquired keys. Face it, it's just indie devs bitching because they aren't as rich as Notch.
>>342230378
>>342230317
Problem is, there's no guarantee you will sell more copies just by lowering the price.
Example: Anime BDs. They tried lowering the prices on some sample series in Japan and all that resulted was less money coming in. A niche product that is for the most part already reaching its widest possible userbase cannot get money from new users.
>>342230280
good lad. GTA5 is fucking awesome but on my PS3 it ran like fucking horrid shit and when it came out on PC 2 years later I mostly just sped around with real acceleration/top speed mod
Didn't give them money once and if I plan on getting it for online I'll go for G2A, fuck them fuck them fuck them, good games but might as well go bankrupt if they keep pulling shit
>>342227993
>buying indie games
>in the year of MMXVI
how cucked do you have to be?
>>342228417
>be a good goy and pay 40-60 dollers for yo gams
Fuck off
>>342230452
>Buy game from key store
>activate key
>email them
>actual live chat with employee within 5 minutes of writing the email
>they apologise
>get a second key after 10 minutes
>give it to my friend
>works
>>342230443
Witcher 3 is made in Poland. They're cheating on living standards. Only reason they can afford to make the game, that and console sales where the game is 60 bucks+DLC
>we can't disable the keys because it would piss off the FANS
>we can't tell which keys came from stolen credit cards
See this is what I have a problem with. If this is genuine (which I doubt) then there should absolutely be a transaction log with which keys were paid for with which card. When that card does a chargeback you could match it up, disable the key, tell consumer not to buy from g2a
Why hasn't this happened?
>fans
Yeah such hardcore fans that they aren't willing to pay the price you decided on.
this is the exact same shit that went on with the Sniper Elite 2 keys a while back
Then they claimed "stolen" and revoked a ton of keys to get attention for their game which, surprise surprise, was a big turd
They couldn't provide any proof of theft and refused to give any details of the police report they "claimed" they had filed. All the revoked keys were replaced by these shady shady sites for no cost almost immediately (mine being one of them)
Or, and this is a pretty WILD idea, don't allow credit cards to purchase keys from you directly. Only accept immediate payment. Only accept from trusted resellers. Why is this not blindingly obvious?
If your system can be manipulated like this then why don't you CHANGE YOUR SYSTEM
>>342230452
While I agree, to be fair, shit YOU buy straight from Steam isn't ever fucking going to give you a "key in use" error.
>>342230472
Then make a better fucking product.
>>342228091
fuck off then
>>342230472
That's because anime isn't normalfag friendly.
>>342230352
its an economy, that doesnt mean that the people who acually steal the cards/card informations are directly involved in the other stuff aswell, but they interact with them
"dirty" money on itself cant be used regualy so they have to find ways to wash it
you'd have to be a real special kind of retard to pay money to pirate
>>342230573
Make Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare 2 you say? We're already on it!
>>342228770
You do know G2A is involved with the Russian mafia right?
>Developers release games with 1/4 the content of games they made 8 years ago
>Expect me to pay double the price
>Get mad when I use a 3rd party site
kek lmao
Considering devs are now trying to push the 60 bucks meme I'll keep buying cheaper keys
fuck them
>>342230597
A lot of video games still arent either, like grand strategy
>>342230373
No, more like a thief and a pawn shop
>>342230619
Hows pirating denuvo protected games working out for you? Did you like DOOM?
>>342230664
You do know most video game pubs in Japan are involved with the Yakuza right?
>>342230729
okay, the one (1) game that makes sense is doom.
>>342230103
>Russkis sell bad keys
>G2A gets confronted
>"There's nothing we can do, because you won't enter a deal with us" (Code: "We don't want to take the losses for allowing thieves to abuse our system. ")
>>342227993
What if I just pirate them?
>>342230724
I already said that mate.
It's funny that it's always some shitty dev of indie pixel trash game no sane person ever heard of, that is complaining about piracy or "unfairness" of the market.
I wonder why.
>>342230729
You shouldn't even illicitly buy games with Denuvo on them. It only encourages them
>>342230350
It's a striking coincidence that a bunch of stolen CCs were used to buy the games legitimately and immediately afterwards a similar number of licenses appeared on G2A.
They'd have to ask G2A for their list of key providers, because they obviously aren't doing this themselves.
However, because that information would incriminate them (they would have to prove ignorance), they would be smart not to give it up without a warrant.
The dev would need to hire a PI to look into it because police do nothing for cyber crimes.
>>342230564
So? Got a game for $30 that would have been $60 bucks on Steam.
Key was obviously scanned in from a retail copy so it wasn't some credit card fraud either
>>342230838
They don't get shit. They keys are bought with fraudulent cards.
Here's a solution: don't sell your game for less money in the third world, just let the third world pirate like they always did. So greedy you have to siphon up every last bit of potential money even when it's pennies on the dollar, eh, merchants?
>>342227993
You know what this means?
DELAYED DELIVERY IS COMING BACK!
>>342230529
I've even gotten refund from a key seller site, what kind of world do we live in where customer service and refunds are better from legal loopholes than official ones?
>It's another entitled indieshit dev episode
>>342230632
CoD is a good product though. It fits in a large sector of the market, has high appeal among different demographics, good name recognition and is fiscally reliable. It's not an expression of a creator, but it is a good product. If you're in for the money you make a fucking product, if you want to give the world your vision you disregard the very idea of living off it and any money it may bring you is just people's appreciation. Don't make a piece of shit nobody but you likes and then bitch about it not making you enough money. If you want money then you must think in terms of the market.
>>342227993
As a consumer in a free market it is well within my right to go to another shop if they sell what I want for a lower price.
The problem here it seems is some small website not putting in the proper precautions to prevent the usage of dodgy cards to get keys. It is no ones fault but the website that isn't fucked to prevent this.
>>342229324
evidence please.
>>342230913
They're implying G2A doesn't lower prices because of regional pricing, but because of fraudulent cards though.
>>342230882
They probably sold the retail ver to half price books and now some kid who bought it doesn't have his d44m. YOU RUINED HIS DAY
>>342230936
If you want the whole industry to be like CoD then go ahead but I don't.
>>342230837
Because they don't have the money to combat it.
>>342230805
That's like bitching about getting some stolen game from ebay. It isn't ebay's fault unless they partner together to establish what is and isn't stolen
>>342230818
No?
A pawn shop is legal. A guy that buy and sells stolen goods is not.
Or you're the first guy and yes
Inb4 rich jew totalasscancer makes a video complaining about it.
I only use g2a. I couldn't care less if some indie pixelshit company goes bankrupt. I'm not going to pay 60€ for games with 20-30 hours of gameplay.
This is a problem with digital goods.
Solution: Don't sell digital goods.
>>342231005
A pawn shop that sells stolen goods isn't legal. A legal pawn shop is irrelevant in this comparison, because then G2A would've reported the stolen keys to the developer and the devs wouldn't have lost the money.
>>342230925
Official ones have an established clientele and they don't need to worry about losing business. Smaller places actually need to give a shit about their customers because they don't have as many and are closer to going out of business.
Just don't sell games to third world shitholes like russia.
>>342227993
Oy vey goyim how dare you not pay $89.99 for a 20 minutes long "game" with no gameplay! You're not entitled are you goy? Go buy it! Don't buy on sale, don't use keysites, don't get it for free, it harms the poor developers who won't be able to buy their 10th yacht this month!
They should just make their games free to play.
>>342230843
And if they have good proof of that, they can just go to court.
Like every game company that complains and, surprise surprise, never sue G2A and all the other marketplaces.
You can scream all you want, if you don't want to go to court and you don't want to give hard proof for what you say, you have to shut up.
G2A could sue for slander so much companies
>>342231118
And maybe that's where it all went wrong, gaming industry and some developers are too big to fail over a handful of mistreated customers so they can afford it trivializing them.
Most g2a keys are bought by the thousands during sales/bundles and resold for a little bit more, it would be FUCKING RIDICULOUS if everything there was carded and people would take action against them, carding isn't as easy as just finding out someones CC details, getting a steam key and reselling it cheaper.
That being said if their website was actually used by carders its because it was shit and they didn't take any measure to stop them from doing this, steam will cancel your transaction and key if the payment is marked as fraudoulous, why don't they?
>>342231271
I assure you it's not exclusive to video games. That's the nature of almost all business once it passes a certain threshold.
>>342231114
This is where you're lost.
A legal pawn shop, LIKE G2A, can buy occasionnaly stolen goods by accidents, because they don't know it's stolen.
If it's reported stolen, if someone actually fucking sue, they cooperate with the police and give back the stolen items.
You have, and the company have, zero fucking proof that the keys on G2A are stolen, that G2A is aware of that and they even refuse to sue.
Try going to a pawn shop screaming "this was stolen from me! give it back! I have no proof and I won't sue!" and see what happens
>>342230937
how is a website supposed to know that a credit card is stolen? The card holders don't know that it has been stolen until the transactions go through and doesn't go reported as stolen until the transactions have been done.
>>342229971
Sad, but true
>>342231001
Fair point. Something about the system still feels off though. I would have to think about it more before I'm ready to let G2A off completely.
>>342231401
>A stolen item will be permanently marked in the inventory with a red icon
>>342231401
you cant know until the transaction gets chargedback, which is not a problem, you just cancel the key, you lost - N O T H I N G
>>342231401
Then you have some way of invalidating the key given out.
>>342231384
First, G2A isn't a pawn shop. Secondly, if they "accidentally" buy stolen shit they're not doing their job correctly. Thirdly, if they were legal, then there'd be enough time for fraudulent transactions to come to light, which would be reported to the pawn shop before they can sell the "stolen" goods. Fourthly, there would be proof in the case of fraudulent transactions, namely chargebacks, if there weren't any chargebacks there wouldn't be any issues anyway.
This is assuming the claims of the article are correct of course.
>>342227993
Capitalism in action, nigger. If developers don't want me to buy from sites like G2A and Kinguin, then they should start matching the prices I get on those websites.
>>342231210
Let's role-play.
You're ant investigator.
A client comes to you with this amazing coincidence that an equal number of licenses purchased with stolen CCs have also appeared on key resellers within a window of mere days.
They want you to help prove it's not just a coincidence.
What's the first thing you do to earn your salt?
>>342230538
Or maybe western devs should learn to budget their shit and stop spending so much money on overblown budgets.
>>342231767
>What's the first thing you do to earn your salt?
Deploy an ant eater of course.
>>342230729
Yeah it was a very good game, even now it holds really well. Romero level design was top notch, pity he kinda ruined his name with daikatana and all the other shit.
>>342231767
Tell him to hire a lawyer and a statistician.
>>342231574
this. I fucking hate neo /v/.
>>342231689
pretty much
>>342227993
pirated this punch club
shit game
>>342228770
You do know, organized criminals don't really have standards, right? They just want to make money, and they'll do whatever gets them the most. If it's worth the investment of manpower, then they'll do it gladly. It's not like a movie, where they're too Nobre and Honrobuh, to deal drugs or whatever.
>>342230729
Doom? You mean Call of Doomty? The game that bombed recently? Meh.
>>342231767
I head downtown to talk to a local rat, we call him Jimmy the Nose.
He might not want to give up the goods at first, but in the end he'll talk.
They always talk.
>>342231597
you don't think that the administrative cost as well as any banking fees associated with straightening out this is not lost?
And given the reaction in this thread I'm sure you faggots would scream fucking murder if the game dev starting cancelling your keys even if you bought it off of a 3rd party key seller. Easier to blame the victim of the crime I suppose.
btw, that developer's game has been on various cheap places such as humble indie bundle for a dollar.
G2A could of brought a bunch of cheap keys and resell em for higher prices.
>>342231597
>>342231606
Who benefits in this though? G2A and the scammer.
>>342231937
It didn't sell well? I thought it was great for the first half of the game,after that nothing new happens and it gets boring. The MP is garbage of course.
>>342232000
People did that a few times when uplay and origin kicked people out of their 5$ Watch Dogs and Battlfield 4 copies bought with stolen cc infos from Mexico.
>>342231656
Yeah, that's what an analogy is. You're great, keep going.
How do you know the items is stolen? Physical and digital? This isn't fucking oblivion>>342231574
>If they were legal
But they are. That's the whole point. G2A is 100% fucking legal. You want to contest it? Fucking sue them. Stop hiding behind "well, I scream very loudly that they are not legal, so..."
Other marketplace don't use a delay to see if the item is stolen or not. This is like every other physical marketplace that can occasionnaly sell stolen goods without knowing.
>>342231767
go talk to the reseller
they would like to talk to your client and work with them to stop anything happening like this again
your client refuses and goes to the local newspaper instead for no reason
well look like my work here is done
>>342232000
of course, but that will happen no matter what you do, and the only way to stop it is to cancel those keys so carders know your vendor CANNOT be used to wash money.
What's so fucking hard to grasp? No one does this shit on steam except some newly fresh cunt who thinks he will get away with it
>>342232034
yeah obviously, but not a lot of shit is carded there
>>342232108
>You want to contest it? Fucking sue them.
>he thinks he can sue a bunch of chinks
>>342232108
>Other marketplace don't use a delay to see if the item is stolen or not.
Then they're not a legal pawnshop. Thanks for clearing that up. So the analogy of a thief and a guy selling stolen shit both being illegal holds up.
I already addressed the rest.
>>342232181
>wash money
*launder money
>>342232181
>and the only way to stop it is
But when a majority of their business is done like this they have no incentive to be legitimate.
Its not like keys are a physical commodity, the publisher looses nothing from fraudulent purchases.
If they were smart they would just deactivate the keys so they have nothing to sell
>>342231929
Yes and? they deserve to make money too for their hard work :^)
Fuck em.
Some games aren't worth the price tag.
I was happy to pay full price for Witcher 3 and the game showed just how much effor the devs pooled into it.
I'm not paying $60 for Todd Howards new game in the same engine with the same script and the same gameplay with a new shiny layer. Actually I won't even "sample" that for free.
Look at Kingdom. Indie game. Devs never bitched about it. Sold for $9.99. Sold a crap ton and it ran and played well.
>>342229565
>I don't see how G2A is to blame
Half the keys on their site are for sale through illegal means. They are completely aware and alright with this.
Literally worse than piracy, as they are taking money out of the dev's pockets. If you want it that bad, just pirate it.
>>342227993
>Punch Club, Party Hard and SpeedRunners
>>342231001
>It isn't ebay's fault
Actually yes it is, and they're every bit as liable as those selling the stolen goods.
In fact there have been numerous court cases regarding exactly that with stores that specialized in counterfeit goods etc
>>342231546
Ignore the other anon, he has literally no idea what he's talking about. G2A absolutely can be held accountable for who they choose to do business with.
G2A and Kinguin are both part of the same company located in Hong Kong
They can do whatever they want because sue'ing the chinese is impossible even for big global companies and world players.
Maybe devs should start making products worth paying full price for, at a price that reflects the quality and length of the game. I've pretty much only bought games on G2A for the last year because they sell games for what they are really worth.
Remember when GabeN said "piracy is a service problem, not a pricing problem" referring to how people wanted their content instantly 24/7 instead of having to go to the store? Well now we have a pricing problem. No one wants to spend $60 for a game that could be a broken mess with a dead multiplayer, hackers that never get banned and full of extra content you have to pay $5 - $15 just to get the full product.
Look at how Blops 3 and Rainbow Six: Siege skyrocketed in sales and players when they both got $15 starter editions. They started being sold at the price they are actually worth and players welcomes them with open arms because of it. If games started being sold for a realistic price that reflects the actual value of the game they will end up making even more money because more people will be willing to buy it.
>>342232246
>Then they're not a legal pawnshop.
Mind pointing to the law that say "marketplace must always have a dealy to verify if an item is stolen or not"?
Because I don't think it exist, champ. So no, you're still wrong.
>>342227993
So there's no way to deactivate the copies that were fraudulently acquired?
The Chinks are undercutting both the developing and Valve, so they might actually get assistance from the latter.
Fuck are they losing from deactivating them? Teach those shitweasels a lesson, they'll do whatever you let them do and you're fucking delusional if you think the market isn't going to grow from here.
Also if this shit is stolen, how the fuck is it Gray?
>>342232414
And yet companies still actively decide to do business with those Hong Kong companies because they're just as corrupt as the others.
>>342232372
Truly the epitome of game quality.
>>342231001
>>342231546
I have no idea why you think eBay isn't liable for acting as a store for stolen goods but they are.
See >>342232410
>>342232181
You're entirely missing the fact that the vendor has no idea how the keys were purchased. Even if you were to have the keys canceled, the vendor doesn't know this as they only broker the transaction. So for the most part, the criminal still gets his cut and the dev/customer are left holding the bag.
G2A couldn't give a shit about this because they can sit on plausible deniability, still get their cut and to hell with whoever's back they get carried on
>>342232250
I'm not talking about g2a and most people who sell there dont sell carded shit
>China is killing western indie devs
>>342232474
>So there's no way to deactivate the copies that were fraudulently acquired?
There is, but the last time a dev did this for Sniper Elite 3, they got fucking shit on, as people just don't understand that what they're buying is stolen.
>>342232516
hey fuck you, speedrunners was good.
>>342232464
http://money.howstuffworks.com/pawnshop4.htm
This clearly says you're not allowed to handle stolen goods, it's one of the first links on google you incompetent fuck. I don't have a link to the specific law anyway, because I'm not well versed in cross-continental laws, or laws from Russia. But yeah, denial is better.
Handling stolen goods is illegal.
>>342232519
What the fuck are you doing?
>>342232551
plausible deniability is one of those things you say to a court appointed defense lawyer and they beg you to consider taking a plea.
Daily reminder game devs and publishers would LOVE to charge you $80 for a game and another $80 for DLCs and Season Passes, not to mention Early Access.
Fight it, buy from G2A and other key-selling sites. Give a strong signal they WILL lose money if they decide to jew their customers.
inb4 waah the costs go up so they have to charge more
Yeah, I'll take that into consideration next time a game studio located in downtown LA which absurdly overpays their employees (and dumps money into marketing) tells me that.
>>342230117
>They don't understand that it's gonna hurt them in the long run and most Denuvo games have flopped
And do pirates not understand that Denuvo only exists because of them?
>>342232551
Again, dev does not need to give a shit, chargeback happens, you cancel the key. That's what any competent vendor does.
And again, G2A does not rely solely on carding, if they find a vendor that can be used to launder carded money then fuck yeah they'll get involved but they CANNOT RELY solely on that since people will stop buying there if all the keys get cancelled.
Most of that shit is bought by the thousands on sales/bundles
>>342228597
fucking this I used to love demos so much and a lot of them often convinced me to buy games I had no interest in
>>342232448
the problem with digital goods is that they easily lose their value, and devs constantly exploit people with the pricing.
No digital game should cost 60€ EVER. There's no expenses for distribution to cover. There's no physical retailers taking 50% of the cut.
If you buy digital games at 60€ you're being exploited.
>>342232372
>irrelevant dev
>complains the loudest
Poetry.
>>342232637
You're fucking stupid.
There is a great difference between saying "you cannot handle stolen goods" and "you have to verify everytime you have a product in your hand that it is stolen"
You are also completely forgetting that the reseller could have no idea that the good is in fact stolen.
Go back to law school if you can't make that difference
>>342227993
>developer behind games like Punch Club
Yeah he's full of shit.
>>342232350
It's really some mob type shit. Take the stolen goods, sell it for cheaper, undercutting the major businesses, so they have to get i bed with you, in order to compete.
>>342232625
Do it anyway. Fuck em. Chinks and the people they deal with alike are stealing from you, their outrage ain't worth shit.
You lower the price to $30, the Chinks lower it to $15. You lower it to $15, they lower it to $5. You lower it to $5, they lower it to 50 cents.
There's no way to adequately fight these twats on their own terms, it's a digital commodity and all the shits stolen, it's literally nothing but profit for them. Just throw up your hands and stick your dick in their dumbfuck consumers.
>>342231937
>The game that bombed recently? Meh.
wew
>>342232630
>Dude youtubers lmao
Nice game you have there.
>>342232691
>he thinks game devs make a high amount of money for their field
>he things LA is cheap to live in
fucking wew lad
>>342232694
And pirates don't play Denuvo games. Games protected by Denuvo not only aren't played by anyone, they're not even talked about, that's the power of Denuvo, no copies stolen, no copies sold
>Spelunky is popular and loved by everyone
>devs never complain about piracy or keysites
>Binding of Isaac is loved by everyone
>no piracy complains either
>some irrelevant shit dev makes boring repetitive shovelware with a far too high pricetag for indie standards
>complains all day about chinks stealing his ''potential millions''
>>342232792
>There is a great difference between saying "you cannot handle stolen goods" and "you have to verify everytime you have a product in your hand that it is stolen"
Not according to the law mate. Having a suspicion is enough for that.
>You are also completely forgetting that the reseller could have no idea that the good is in fact stolen.
It's a fraction of the price most likely, seems plausible.
>Go back to law school if you can't make that difference
I never went to law school, that's impossible.
>>342232256
>the publisher looses nothing from fraudulent purchases.
Hosting costs, administration costs, licensing costs, legal costs, not to mention the huge fucking amount of time....and in turn money it costs you to sort this kind of bullshit out.
Fraudulent purchases are a fucking nightmare to deal with, especially for small businesses.
Grow the fuck up already, the world isn't some perfectly balanced little digital economy in a fucking MMO.
>>342232727
The post you referred to, is already replying to the same posts replied to.
>>342232694
The money loss is almost always exaggerated, and they are making even less money now with Denuvo. Great choice.
>devs still haven't cut off the fraudulently purchased games
>meaning those buyers will continue to support G2A
indie devs proving once again they're the dumbest fucking people on the planet
also, any smart dev would counter this shit by putting on a sale to reap in the big sympathy buckz
>>342232792
>"you have to verify everytime you have a product in your hand that it is stolen"
I never actually said that. You implied I might've said that, but I never confirmed or denied that. I only provided a source for what I said.
>>342232903
Clearly pirates are to blame for all this
>>342231001
>It isn't ebay's fault
They're liable you dumbshit just like how Amazon treats shady sellers.
>>342232410
Nah see I could steal something from your house right now and sell it on eBay before you even realise its stolen.
That's the key part here because they are giving the codes over BEFORE the credit card is revealed to be stolen and charges back.
Then how are you going to deal with it. A cop might track it through eBay and to whoever bought it. Might seize it from the buyer and give them the details of the police case too. But eBay don't have to give back their listing fee you moron. They can't give back the money because they never had it in the first place.
eBay only has to ban that one account. There isn't anything else they are liable for.
What you are talking about
>a store that specialized in counterfeit goods
is just so irrelevant
Please give a proper example to your point because at the moment all you've said is "I'm right and you're wrong"
>>342229967
Never have your shit sold elsewhere or in bundles. Bundles especially
>>342232882
Dlc was fucking cancerous but it was just cosmetic shit used as chemo on a good game that was dying
sell game to russians for .10 shekels
sell game to first world for 100 shekels
someone buys russian game and sells to first world
this is somehow the end of capitalism
>>342231656
Honestly, G2A is a pawnshop.
G2A is the cancer killing videogames.
Because of them i am literally starving to death. Please support my game by buying it on my own site because you pay the most there and please also support me on patreon.
>>342229864
Because profit anon, a product has to go in profit. The options for profit is lower price and high numbers or higher price and lower numbers
>>342231384
its deeper than that, Pawn Shops are required to ensure that they do not receive or traffic stolen goods, by accident or otherwise.
This means that if they were to have stolen goods by accident, the first thing thats going to be checked is what system they have for verifying the legitimacy of transactions and where they fucked up to allow stolen goods.
that's how you lose your license
>>342232945
I'm aware. I read it and agreed with it. I'm deeply sorry for offending your sense of cosmic order and disrupting the balance of your life by quoting posts in an order you didn't predict.
Have my sincerest apologies.
>>342233043
The keys in OP's story were from the publishers own store
>Gmg Gog Gaben humble gala stars groupees
There's a ton of legit sites that even gift games instead of g2a
>>342233006
Pirates are the reason most games have discussions about them, without pirates there is simply less people talking about the games and thus less free publicity
>>342228323
Kek should've waited a month I just got bf4 and hardline for $4.50 a piece.
>>342233260
You're getting memed on
>>342227993
Daily reminder that any dev who is against the reselling of keys is essentially saying that they don't want you to own the games you buy.
Reselling shit you buy is a consumer right. Gaming as a service is deliberately anti-consumer.
Fine then, I'll go back to piracy.
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
Is steam banning games bought and activated (via VLAN for Mother Russia region?
>I never went to law school, that's impossible.
That explains it.
>Not according to the law mate. Having a suspicion is enough for that.
No. Or the US law is really retarded.
I give you, you have to prove that you were not aware that the good was stolen.
Both situations are really different, at least in all the european countries.
>It's a fraction of the price most likely, seems plausible.
You can't do anything with a "seems plausible"
"Well, did he rape her?" "Seems plausible, go to jail"
>>342233004
Yes, I saw that you avoided my point everytime.
>>342233124
Yeah, and the same thing would happens with G2A.
The problem is that nobody is actually sueing.
As long as nobody wants to sue, nothing will happens.
>>342228597
tinybuild provides demos of their games ya know
>>342227993
>sell game at a price consumers aren't willing to pay
>consumers go elsewhere
Free market at work, people don't like feeling ripped off.
>>342233326
Does it count as buying it if you issue a chargeback?
>>342227993
>arbitrary number pulled straight out of the devs ass
Cool story, bro.
>>342233303
Look at this pirate on his high sea
Don't try to make yourself sound more important then what you are.
Devs are inherently anti-consumer. They want to stop demos, piracy, and reselling of games (both physical and digital).
Tell me again why I should support them? For feel good brownie points? Fucking idiots.
>>342233353
>>342233353
>>342233353
this you fucking retards, take a gander at their prices and its almost always 1$ or so above what it was on the most recent sale unless it was in a bundle
>>342227993
i dont give a shit
>>342233441
because they have games and they're also more than 1 person, unlike /v/
>>342233361
its not a matter of suing, thats a civil case.
Its criminal, which means the police get involed and it becomes a matter of locking your ass up or not.
To me, the problem with suing is that its just going to break you finacially. Its expensive, and you're not guaranteed any sort of victory.
Also the law, at least to my limited understanding, doesn't really help against sites like G2A. its why TPB is (or was) around so long, since it doesn't quite fit as someting you can do.How did TPB do against getting sued? It was much higher profile
>>342233353
>>342233462
Except the G2A marketplace, which allows people/fraudsters to sell keys and G2A takes a cut.
>>342228597
it's 2015 moron, you can literally watch a game being played to completion by people who've spent their entire lives playing video games
what more fucking validation would you need? Get the fuck out of with your shitty justifications for stealing
>>342233419
The chargeback thing is a bullshit excuse though.
If that actually happened they could have busted G2A ages ago. It's just third worlders selling their cheap keys.
>>342233441
>Tell me again why I should support them?
For the same reason they support you?
>>342229324
>Is it really that hard to believe people used credit card fraud to make money from an easy target?
>>342228390
>£50
>£
Arent muslims rich because of all that oil money?
>>342233624
So if people sell stolen shit on Graigslist, that's somehow Craigslist's fault?
>>342233361
I assume you tried to respond to me. >>342232915
>No. Or the US law is really retarded.
We were never discussing if the law was retarded or not.
>You can't do anything with a "seems plausible"
It's enough to accuse a seller of knowingly handling stolen goods.
>Yes, I saw that you avoided my point everytime.
That's false.
>Yeah, and the same thing would happens with G2A.
That's assuming they're a legal pawnshop, which clearly they aren't considering they were able to sell keys before they were revoked because of fraudulent cards. Though that's assuming those claims in the article are correct, which I obviously can't be sure of.
>>342228597
>>342232735
You know why they stopped doing demos? Because it had a higher chance of turning people off from the game then making them want to buy it while also driving up cost.
Piracy I would say as a whole has been solved.
The only people who pirate now are either children or NEETs who are incapable of buying games or people who were literally never going to buy the game. They're not lost sales. Both are also publicity machines with nothing better to do so it evens itself out.
G2A and other gray market sites are a more insidious threat.
They're getting business from otherwise legitimate consumers who are just looking for a deal, but in a way that does not support the developer at all.
If they were just looking for the lowest possible price they'd pirate it, but they're not. They believe that they're supporting the developer in a mutually beneficial way when really they're just supporting some random worthless chink (redundant, I know) who's sitting on his ass and farting out fraud.
Denuvo is angry out of touch publishers waving their sticks in the air when these sites are selling the ground out from under them.
>>342233581
>>342233678
kek no valid reasons
>>342233624
I'm not saying it doesn't happen just not as often, most of that shit on there is just from sales
if it was like you guys said and everything was carded there would be so many cancelled keys people would just stop using it, but they don't
>>342233779
Literally the most obvious anti-consumer move in gaming history and yet people brush it off.
>>342233781
How the fuck would you even begin to eat this burger?
Everything would spill out with the first bite.
>>342227993
>buying games
lmao
>>342233763
Craigslist doesn't really directly profit from the sale, they profit from the listing.
>>342233763
Well I'm not going to use a service which is profiting from fraud
>/v/ willingly supports gangs just to get games for slightly cheaper
>>342233441
Are you sure you're not confusing devs with publishers?
>>342228417
>>342227993
I get games cheaper and save, at least, $30.
Not going to stop buying, stay mad, cuck devs.
>>342233914
Try and really compress it I guess? Would fucking ruin it though.
>>342233914
It's a contemplative exercise more than it is a meal.
>>342233042
>eBay only has to ban that one account. There isn't anything else they are liable for.
You mean aside for the "cut" Ebay takes from every transaction?
For whatever reason you're likening everything to petty street corner crime...and that simply does not apply here.
We're talking about business and online commerce.
Any vendor, be it Ebay, G2A etc has an onus of responsibility to ensure they're operating within the letter of the law whilst conducting their business. In G2A's case, if they are taken to court, they are legally required to prove that they've taken all the necessary legal steps and precautions to source keys from legitimate sources before reselling them.
They obviously haven't, as their entire business is built on this shit, but the legal requirement is still there, as is the legal liability.
I really don't know how much simpler I can make it.
http://www.trbusiness.com/regional-news/international/ebay-is-accountable-for-counterfeit/68500
>The European Court of Justice ruled yesterday that eBay can be held accountable for counterfeit goods sold on its website. The ruling came after L’Oréal and other brand owners claimed that eBay should be liable for counterfeit goods sold through its offices
>>342233981
>implying I'm a sad moralfag
Sorry m8, going to get those games cheap as fuck and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
>>342233921
They take a fee for facilitating the sale. They're not actually selling it themselves.
>>342233995
Nope. Just like G2A is at fault for supporting crimes, Devs too are at fault for not standing up for what they believe in. Fact is, most devs don't actually care about consumers.
>>342233427
>Don't try to make yourself sound more important then what you are.
But anon, we pirate bros are a very valuable part of the gaming indistry, we are there to try the game and talk about it on /v/ and countless other forums in the internet, we are there uploading videos to youtube about how fun the games are and spreading the word so paybros get the game.
Things like denuvo only work if you wanna destroy your company
>>342233781
Tell me the mental gymnastics how acquiring a key for a game doesn't support the developer? Do you think they just generate it from thin air? Where the fuck do you think these keys are coming from?
>>342234084
Nah you're just a poorfag who doesn't care that you're fucking the game industry
>>342234086
Yes, I fucking know that, if you look at the conversation tree, you would see that
>amateur game devs on vee & their lackeys mad that communism is coming
LMAO
>>342234202
Exactly, I don't give a fuck because I have moralcucks like you being good boys and buying games legitimately, so i'm going to get legitimate games much cheaper.
Sucks to be you, but keep paying those $60 a pop for me m8.
>>342228390
>50£
Standard's 40£, i can't think of anything other than civ 6 that's 50.
>>342234219
>>>/tumblr/
>>342228323
battlefield only costs 5 usd on origin right now
>>342234197
They steal that shit using credit card fraud. The money is refunded and the keys aren't. The only reason the keys aren't deactivated is the outrage and ostracism that games that have done it - Sniper Elite 3 - went under.
They're in a lose-lose situation.
>>342234197
If you acquire that key without giving the developer anything, or revoking what you gave the developer after you've gotten the key without returning the key. Hypothetically of course.
>>342234139
It's shitheads like you that makes game like Ace Investigation 2 not getting a release in the west.
>Started their own key website to sell directly to their fans
>Surprised when Taiwanese keysellers with fraudulent credit cards buy up the game by the thousands
Oh, so it's entirely their fault for allowing one credit card to buy more than a certain number of keys for the game? Good to know.
First they tried that Twitch Plays Punch Club bullshit so that people could actually access and buy the fucking thing, and now they're bitching that keysellers taking their keys because they sold it somewhere besides Steam? What a fucking shocker.
>>342234338
>They steal that shit using credit card fraud. The money is refunded and the keys aren't
Do you have any kind of proof any of this is happening?
>>342234197
If you had read the thread, you would see that these keys are bought on fraudulent credit cards from certain sites that the devs gave out keys to in order to sell them. The dev never sees a penny and in some cases, the chargebacks actually cost them money
>>342234323
20* if you actually want to play the FULL game
>>342234059
Are you fucking retarded or is this some "bit" that you do? Stolen goods are not the same as counterfeit. Go get your big boy dictionary and have a gander.
g2a aren't being taken to court either and they won't be as they aren't based in the US
I bought Mad Max and Arkham Knight for $10 on release day.
Sorry, but you simply can't compete.
>>342234417
THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TRACKING SYSTEMS TO VERIFY LEGIT PURCHASES FROM FRAUDULENT ONES USING THE SAME STOLEN CARD
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>342233108
If you don't make porn why would you use Patreon?
>>342234421
The fucking article, dipshit.
>>342234421
Well, all of the devs that are coming out against places like G2A etc (see Ubisoft where the keys were bought fraudulently from Origin and then sold). I am not a dev.
>>342233618
Yes, but you do have to sue them to start the procedure.
If nobody alerts the cops, they can't do shit.
My problem with this is that some very big companies with lawyers teams complained about G2A and yet did nothing. This is mindblowing. They have the ressources to sue but they just don't.
The law can help. Look, the megaupload site was shut down hard. Well, it was way more high profile and there was lobbying involved, but it can be useful.
Don't know anything about TBP.
>>342233775
>We were never discussing if the law was retarded or not.
True. That's just my opinion.
>It's enough to accuse a seller of knowingly handling stolen goods.
You're right, so they should sue. Wait, they don't. That's the problem. Yet, they say they are right and G2A is selling stolen goods. That is also the problem.
>That's false.
No. Everytime I brought it up, you danced around it.
>That's assuming they're a legal pawnshop
You're aware that the pawnshop was an analogy and that I do not believe that G2A must respect all the regulations of pawnshops, right?
I assume that G2A is legal and will act if stolen goods are reported and charges are pushed. I do not need any proof for that, they're innocent until proven guilty.
You assume that the claims in the article are correct, for the sake of argument surely, even when they don't want to press charges and do anything against G2A.
This is fucked up.
In any cases, of aggression, rape, thief or anything you want, it's fucked up. It doesn't work like that in a civilized country.
>>342234284
Happens all the time.
Here's the first example I could find.
>>342232625
They may as well, my friend got a revoked key for some game a while back from G2A and they just gave him another after his was revoked.
If your key doesn't work, G2A is legally required to either refund it or give you a new one. You don't even need to spend the $2 or whatever on G2A shield, they have to do so anyhow.
>>342234454
You've completely missed my point, so i'm going to explain it as simply as humanly possible.
Retailers are legally accountable for commodities they trade.
>put game on steam
>no carder even bothers
hard boys, very hard
>>342234532
>>342234549
So they sell the keys without any kind of protection against this, literally allowing the same credit card to buy fucking million copies, then act surprised when some chink fucks exploit this and sell them forward?
>>342234608
>No. Everytime I brought it up, you danced around it.
This is a different issue.
>and that I do not believe that G2A must respect all the regulations of pawnshops, right?
It seemed like you implied it was at a previous point.
>You assume that the claims in the article are correct, for the sake of argument surely, even when they don't want to press charges and do anything against G2A.
>This is fucked up.
I do not see how trying to not fuck up an argument is "fucked up".
>>342234764
>G2A is legally required
>Chink site
>legally anything
laughing conmen.jpeg
>>342234693
>PS4
>Sony's $tore
Not that guy but that's not actually what he was talking about
i saw punch club when it came out. It looked interesting but they wanted like $20 for it. I was interested at around $5. So I torrented it, beat it, and removed its content from my PC.
Now I see this thread. Do I feel bad? Almost, but I WAS willing to pay. The greedy developer wanted far to much from what was honestly the equivalent of a freeware flash game. "People are buying illegal keys for cheap and I'm losing money " wel lower the price of you game you kike. Those keys were bought by people willing to pay for your game. Just not your exorbitant sum
>>342234429
20* if you want to play maps that have literally zero population
>>342234824
Yeah essentially that's what happened. They refuse to cut off the copies bought from those titles too.
They're the most incompetent devs in history. Reminds of those devs a while back who complained a lot. I think it was about steam refunds and how they're 'anti-consumer'.
>>342234824
>protection
>against the selling of a combination of 15 letters
>>342234869
I don't see the difference.
The US store is also a Sony $tore but they sell the game for $60 which is cheaper than £50.
You can easily download it from the NA store instead and save money.
Hell, you don't even need a VPN on the PSN.
>mfw I don't give a fuck about devs crying
>mfw i'm going to keep buying from G2A and there's nothing anyone can do about it
>mfw all the moralfucks ITT mad as fuck about it, crying as they pay $60 for the newest indie game
Cheaper games, and makes everyone assmad, it's a win-win situation.
>>342234974
You know I haven't seen any functional keygens for like the past 5 years, while we're on the subject.
I miss the music those things had.
>>342233630
ITS THE CURRENT YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAR
>>342234972
If they cut off the people who bought the fraudulent keys, the group of drizzling retards who make up the average video game player throw their toys out of the pram because they don't understand. It's bad PR.
>>342229864
Because G2A isn't a competitor or even a bootlegger, it's effectively a fence. There is no way to undercut their prices.
>>342235197
Tough shit then.
>>342235136
Protip: That music isn't exclusive to keygens. They used that music because it could be compressed to ridiculous degrees.
They genre is called chiptunes, and most of it is freely available on the net. Just follow the big dawgs.
>games used to be made by people who love games
>makes good money
>Jews jump on it and turn it in a business first product who cares system
>indie Devs realise they can be millionaires with little effort
2016
>>342234930
Here's what they should have done:
>release this blog post but slightly altered, keeping enough information to make G2A look bad and garner sympathy
>stop all purchases from your shitty fucking distribution site and just put/keep the games on networks already well established like steam/gog/origin
>announce a sale, get the game for $5, cheaper than it was listed on G2A
>cut off all activations through g2a encouraging buyers to get it from official avenues
>enjoy rolling around in millions over a shit game
>>342235136
You have music in game installers.
>>342235158
No it isn't. That's a lame excuse. MANY devs already do this shit and you don't see them with bad PR. Only one dev actually got shit for it, and it was Ubisoft but they're retarded anyways.
I really don't understand this at all
How the fuck do you get keys illegally
Surely you have to buy the keys before you can sell
Either I'm too dumb (most likely) and just don't get this, or this is just bogus claims.
How the fuck did anyone managed to acquire $450k worth of keys without the developers not selling to them.
>mfw I pirate singleplayers
>mfw I buy multiplayers as cheap as possible from sites that scammed the keys
In an economy that's in its very core designed to exploit people to funnel money to the 1%, I exist only to exploit as much as possible
>>342235441
Like the OP article says - they purchase with credit card info that isn't theirs, the money gets refunded to the poor sap who lost the info, the chinks keep the keys.
They're not deactivated because it's a PR disaster or something.
>>342235441
Get a stolen card.
Buy keys with it.
Sell them on G2A before anyone notice.
Profit!
That is what they claim
>>342235441
>Steal credit cards
>Buy keys before they're detected as stolen so it's not blocked
>They're detected as stolen
>Bank revokes all illegitimate purchases
>You have key without paying for it
was complaining on reddit not enough for you Alex?
>>342228902
>buy game cd key site
>use cc like a genius
>next week card suspended
>someone tried to buy games across the country
>luckily i didnt loose any money
>>342235320
>>cut off all activations through g2a encouraging buyers to get it from official avenues
you mean
>cut off all activations through g2a so that every poorfag (who for some reason is able to afford a pc and thinks their time is better spent playing video games rather than improving their lives) and 16 year old in the world gets angry at you, garnering you a massive amount of bad press while giving G2A even more advertising as people tweet #fuck[dev]
Retarded people are already on G2A's side.
>dey gib me cheap games
>dey gib my favrite twitch guy monie
>riot bully dem
>>342235441
This situation is just about incompetence. The devs literally allowed thousands of purchases off a stolen card from their own distribution channel.
In all other situations, keys are gained in 3 ways.
1. Someone buys them at a cheaper price (during a sale, or in a different region), and then sells them on G2A.
2. Someone gets stolen credit cards, buys the games at full prices, and then sells the keys at an extremely low price (this doesn't work out as much as you'd expect, especially since credit card companies who work with distributors love catching faggots with stolen cards)
3. Devs themselves utilize G2A for whatever fucking reason
>>342235550
>>342235553
>>342235583
But then why aren't the keys removed from circulation?
Why don't they just strike the stolen keys as invalid keys?
Here's what I don't get about people who buy from G2A. Why don't you dumb fucks just pirate? Both options fuck the devs out of some money but piracy is way cheaper for you.
>>342234429
i mean if you got premium edition for 7 britbong monies then cool i guess, that's what 14-15 usd?
only $5 cheaper than origin's price
>>342235725
>le bad PR meme again
stop being a fucking baby Alex
>>342235740
Because a lot of games can't be pirated anymore friend
>>342235737
Because that would pop legitimate buyers when they did absolutely nothing wrong.
Their reputation would take a nose dive. Nobody would use their service anymore. They go out of business.
It's not even slippery slope. This is exactly what will happen.
>>342235737
Because Sniper Elite 3 did it and got destroyed publicly for it or something.
But a bunch of anons in-thread are claiming that other devs deactivated the keys no problem.
I don't know. That part of the story the article doesn't cover.
>>342235737
They claim it's what happens.
They can't prove it and they say they can't track which key is illegal and which is legal (kek)
>>342235737
See >>342235550
>They're not deactivated because it's a PR disaster or something.
At the point of noticing, most keys would be in the hands of people that bought them off of G2A. They didn't know they were illegitimate. Deactivating those would result in no refunds for those people.
See Sniper 2 apparently, people didn't like that at all.
>>342235737
Because the last time someone did this it led to a massive amount of backlash and their game failed. And that was only ~7000 keys.
>>342235737
Because they won't usually realise until it's too late. You don't just get lots of lists of CC numbers when someone makes a purchase from you.
>>342235737
Because then they get bad publicity as poorfags riot about how "I payed money for this" because they don't understand how G2A works.
>>342235737
That's what MAJORITY of competent devs actually do. Blizzard, Arenanet, EA, etc. they all do that shit on the regular. Fuck, even antivirus software companies do that shit too apparently.
But that's out of the question for this retarded fucking dev.
Don't buy into the nonsense from fags here saying it's bad PR. THE ONLY TIME it was bad PR was with Ubisoft, and they handled the entire situation so fucking poorly.
>>342235848
>it's a denuvo shill wanks one to the handful of denuvo games episode
>it's a denuvo shill deludes himself into thinking the non-multiplayer-exclusive denuvo games - all of which have flopped - are great episode
>>342235993
Was mostly talking about the multiplayer-focused games friend, not just the denuvo stuff
but it's nice to know denuvo triggers you
>>342235982
>Don't buy into the nonsense from fags here saying it's bad PR. THE ONLY TIME it was bad PR was with Ubisoft, and they handled the entire situation so fucking poorly.
To be fair, I'm only basing that on this thread. Which is probably one of the worst sources for information.
I don't believe there's actually a source that would indicate it either way though.
>>342236067
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you were a shill. It turns out you're merely clinically retarded. My bad.
>>342236152
> It turns out you're merely clinically retarded.
projection is a curse
Who the fuck uses G2A for a fucking shitty indie game? Just pirate it if you're that much of a jew
>>342235872
>>342235878
>>342235892
>>342235903
>>342235910
>>342235925
>>342235938
>>342235982
Yeah but one thing would be deactivating the keys which were already used (which we can argue if they should do that or not) and the other is deactivating the keys that weren't used yet that were stolen.
Maybe they don't have good developer tools on steam to track this shit? (and I'm assuming we're mostly talking about steam here).
Are the $450k worth of keys all used keys?
>>342227993
>the self-serving, lying, narcissistic assholes from TinyBuild getting run out of business
Good, good.
>>342236627
They were sold from their own store
>>342227993
>sell you game at a reasonable price
>this is never a problem
>>342236627
Keeping track of the keys they sold, that's possible. Since most of these are either from bundles or the publisher store.
Keeping track of the keys that were activated, not so sure about that one.
>>342236824
Yes but keys that were activated on steam right?
>>342236912
>Keeping track of the keys that were activated, not so sure about that one.
If not they should lobby Valve to help them out on that front, because that could solve the problem.
>>342236939
Yea
>>342227993
Is this the dev who refused to release his game until it was finished on Twitch by someone he had sent a key to? Yeah, fuck him.
>>342227993
>/v/ermins
>buying games
lol
From what I read you can also fuck the sellers, you can buy a G2A key through paypal and then just file a paypal dispute, and paypal doesn't give a fuck, so it always sides with the customer.
>>342237230
You saying you don't have a backlog a mile long?
>>342227993
It's cheaper
I don't care as long as the key reseller doesn't fuck me over
>>342227993
GRAYED
>>342232735
Don't make a bad game and expect me to pay for it then.
>>342228770
Organized crime is brilliant really. If they could launder money through furries and the MLP community they'd do it and give no fucks.
>>342228323
you must make all the ladies wet !!! !
>>342233630
Fucking this. You idiots make me sick. I'd have more respect for you if you just came out and said "Yeah I'm a cheap fuck who doesn't want to pay for the game", instead of tired excuses like "Eh theres no demo so I have to pirate it to see if I'll like it". Theres is way more than enough info/videos online for you to make an informed decision without a demo.
>>342237412
It's like buying goods. Don't be such a stingy kike.
>>342229818
It's interesting that only on PC does shitty broken trash lose money. Ubisoft and Bethesda are the kings of consoles.
>>342237757
Big difference between watching and playing games anon, not like you'd notice anyways.
>>342233630
>it's 2015
Anon, I have some bad news...
>>342238159
Not like there is any difference in [current year].
>buy from legitimate retailers!
>no definition of a legitimate retailer
Fuck off, retard.
>>342228549
Kinguin is legit too and they are huuuuge
also for GMG use brotes-secret-coupon
>>342237757
>feeling how the game plays isn't important
this is the video game audience in 2016
>>342231689
/Thread
Video games have always been over price. And considering the quality and content we get nowadays, theres no reason why any game, especially digital, should cost more than $30
On top of costing $60, they cut content and try to resell you dlc shit for another $20 or $30. Yeah fuck that. If you have anything like cash shop items or currency, excesive dlc or day 1 dlc, season pass, excessive drm I'm buying the game on a very good sale, key site, used, or downloaded and I guarantee you i wont lose any sleep over it and neither will them. After all, they've gotten rich out of scamming moral/buy fags like the majority of this thread.
>>342238553
Doesn't Kinguin own G2A?
>>342229921
commie?
lowering prices to stay competitive is literally the essence of capitalism you marxist cunt
>>342231689
>match the prices with a site that is entirely profit margin
Dumbshit kikes who don't understand that there's a difference between competition and your shit getting fenced.
>>342238563
This. Especially since even if you were able to find an unbiased gameplay stream, it would mean loads of spoilers, reducing your overall enjoyment of the game.
>>342227993
Where does G2A get thier keys from?
>>342238797
Not sure if retarded or just pretending.
>>342238840
>spoilers
Really? You gotta watch that much of a game before you can decide whether it seems worth a buy?
The first half hour or so should be enough
>>342238918
Not sure if capable of forming a coherent sentence or just resorting to ad-hominem and calling it a day.
>>342238841
As they explain in the fucking OP article and /v/ has about 80 times in the thread, the key resellers purchase the keys from the publisher's site en masse using stolen credit card info, the site gets hit with the chargebacks, the resellers keep the keys.
>>342238980
>I've never played a videogame in my life
>wordswordswordswords
>no pictures
>imageboard
Fuck me sideways and call me rebit
>>342239196
Here you go.
>>342239196
For you, friend
>>342239230
>>342239459
You didn't call me ribbit, also I'd have liked to see this masterpiece of a game that apparently can rake in half a million buckaroos
A transaction was made to obtain that key, and another was made to resell that key. Have fun proving that first transaction was fraudulent, it's absolutely not my problem.
Just avoid devs who revoke grey keys and you're golden.
>>342239762
Punch Club? Punch Club is a piece of shit, dude, it's a fucking mobile management game.
That's not what the thread is about, it's about the gray market and the role of capitalism and PR in deciding the approach to deal with these sneaky chinks. Not a lot of pictures of that.
The way I see it, if I'm buying a game from somewhere like cdkeys then the developer is still getting my money when I would have otherwise pirated it or not played it at all.
>>342240150
Yes, that's the problem. You're a legitimate consumer who thinks he is supporting a business getting duped by sneaky ruskies and chinks.
It saves me money. People can virtue signal all they want and complain that it hurts them, but look outside. Do you see money growing on trees? I've been putting up with bullshit from high-horse indie-devs and the entire game industry for too many years. I'm not going to start caring now.
>>342240359
Just pirate your games then.
>>342240481
Can't pirate online games, anon, but I usually do otherwise. Resellers are the next best option.
What happens if I bought 100 copies on my own legit card, and then chargeback?
>>342240229
I'm not saying it's the best thing for the industry, but those keys are still coming from the developer and whoever is buying them to resell them is still paying for them even if it's for drastically less money than someone in a different country might pay. At the very least I try to buy games from those sites that I'm either not sure about or don't think are worth $60.
>>342227993
I figured I'd give G2A a shot after looking for any evidence of actual credit card fraud; couldn't find much of anything - even asked about it on /v/ and /g/, and there were a bunch of good reviews, so I bought xcom 2 (because fuck paying $90 for a game, $100+ with the 'expansions' holy shit).
About a week later I had $700+ charged to my credit card by some polish guy, I got it sorted out, but I'm definitely never using one of these grey market sites ever again.
Straight up pirating is better and I'll stick with my old piracy-demo / buy if the price is right method.
>>342240578
You'd have to get someone on the other side of the world to use your credit card info to purchase the keys to get your credit card detected as stolen, but sure.
>>342240648
As the OP article states, they're not buying them. At least, not a fair few of them. They're using stolen credit card info to buy the keys en masse, the money gets charged back and the resellers keep the keys.
IE, fair amount of re-seller customers are buying stolen keys.
I've no problem with trying to get BR or Ruskie prices, as much as Valve flips a shit over it. That situation is a legit "compete or fuck off" scenario. It's specifically that a fair amount of keys are stolen and you can't compete with a fence.
>>342227993
Blame Steam for adding taxes
I'm sorry, but those credit card stealing cyka blyets deserve my money more than Konami. $60 for The Phantom Pain is outrageous. They can go fuck themselves. Kojimbo already got paid.
>>342237027
valve does help devs sort it out tbqh, but the devs themselves have to get on it
these devs don't want to solve anything, they're repeatedly stated they won't deactivate the copies
>>342228770
It's actually pretty well known that Konami's ridiculous push for mobile and Pachinko was under Yakuza influence.
>>342228770
That's a really inefficient and trackable way to launder money over the usual "shady restaurant with $700 meals" deal.
If devs didn't fall for the bundle meme and the "on sale" meme, nothing of this would happen. Just to put he game out there for cheap and not sign in on any sales.
They are harvesting the consequences of their own greediness
these are the same guys that talked about their game punch club being pirated and how these are lost sales
>>342241083
don't do it m8
You think you're saving cash and then you get hit with fraudulent charges on your credit card for 50x more than what you saved.
Reminder that if you're gonna buy a single player game on G2A just pirate it instead, it saves the devs the trouble and doesn't give G2A any money.
>facilitate your own game key store for Steam keys, even though your games are on Steam, while WILLINGLY acknowledging that key fraud happens all the fucking time, and giving scammers an avenue to do so, and nobody but dumb "muh drm" hipsters were going to use your store anyway when Steam exists and works
>wooww g2a screwed us :(
indie developers are fucking idiots
>>342241560
uhh but then i don't get cheevos
>>342241496
are they also the same guys who complained about steam refunds
>>342241523
Sorry, should have clarified. I bought the game already from a keysite when it first came out back in September.
In fact I've probably purchased 10 games from keysites. Still nothing.
I love how the gaming industry is one of the only ones on the planet that asks people not to seek better deals.
Games are overpriced as fuck nowadays. I'm not going to give you £79.99 for a game and season pass when I can get it for £19.99. The customers' wealth is more important to them than the publishers' wealth.
>>342240359
get a job you fucking faggot.
>>342234396
It's shitheads like you that make sure games like that don't get made anymore and fall into obscurity because fuck dropping quids on that shit.
When's the last time you saw a thread about Just Cause 3? Or ROTTR? Or Hitman?
You know when I actually started to see threads about LOTR? When it was cracked.
Pirstes consume and purchase on average alot more media than a legitimate one. It's simply budgeting.
Why should I give a shit if EA, Ubisoft, or retarded indies sees any of my money?
>>342241685
PLEASE DON'T LOOK FOR CHEAPER GAMES
PLEASE NO
JUST BUY A DELUXE EDITION AND ALSO ALL OUR MAP PACKS AND ALSO OUR COSMETICS THANK YOU
>>342233630
Because some games are legit more fun if you can play them.
It's hard to understand why a game like RE4 is so much fun and so good if the player cannot directly experience a chunk of the gameplay. Demos are godtier and need to make a comeback. Don't look me in the eyes and tell me the Tanker Demo for MGS2 isn't amazing.
>>342241685
>buying a season pass ever.
>>342237757
Let me guess, you are a big fan of David Cage games and TLOU?
>>342229379
Zach?
>>342241408
>That's a really inefficient and trackable way to launder money over the usual "shady restaurant with $700 meals" deal.
No it's not.
Do you have any idea how long it'd take to launder 450k through a family restaurant?
You'd need half a dozen restaurants and probably a year of turn over, and even then it'd raise eyebrows.
Do you have any idea as to the investment required in purchasing and operating half a dozen restaurants?
It's fucking insane.
Half a dozen chinks on laptops laundering 450k digitally.....fuck it's not even laundering, outright stealing that much in a matter of days isn't even in the same league as "laundering money" through a restaurant. That's mind blowing efficiency, and assuming they use a good spread of credit cards from all over the world almost impossible for any one agency to even deal with.
>The same dev who cried super hard when people were mad and calling his games shit after pulling a retarded "twitch plays" stunt is now crying about keysites
Shockingly, I'm more inclined to not buy this shithead's story.
My country's banks are associated with an online service, created and managed by said banks, that allows you to create a temporary credit card that only allows a couple of transactions, and limits the amount of money that card can spend. It transfers money from your bank account to this temporary account.
You basically create a virtual credit card, with a limit, that's only valid for a transaction. If it gets stolen, it's worthless.
I've been using this for five years. The idea of putting my real credit card number online terrifies me because no one is trustworthy. It's baffling how a system like this isn't the norm, specially because I live in an extremely in debt European country and we already have it for ages.
>>342241696
not an argument
>>342229157
>where is the evidence
You think those key sites selling keys at 70% off are doing it as a charity or as a gift to consumers? I mean, I can believe that, if it weren't for the fact that there are hundreds of them. Why are all generous rich people only interested in gifting game keys, not other goods?
They are multimillion businesses with 24/7 customer support. You could not be making a profit if you weren't stealing those keys in the first place, since they are sold LOWER than the price a store gets them in stock.
On top of that, the biggest sites have an extremely generous refund policy where they'll just you back the money if you complain once.
I'm sure they found a way to replicate infinite money over there in russia and are using it only for videogames... or they are stealing them. It's one of the two.
>>342242764
>You think those key sites selling keys at 70% off are doing it as a charity or as a gift to consumers?
No. That could be possible by buying them locally and in bundles and shit. It's not evidence for this.
>>342242405
Mind blowingly efficient except they have to do it all through Paypal, a third party service that's subject to local laws and regulations.
Not that the Triads or the average chink conman has to even fucking bother laundering money.
>>342235019
>buying from g2a
pleb
cdkeys is where it's at. brazil price > ruskie price
>>342242475
TinyBuild aren't a dev any more, they're a small publisher.
>>342242517
MBNet is awesome
>>342242726
It is. And also a very good one.
>>342229287
Nice fallacy. If they were 50% cheaper, the key sites would still sell them lower since they are stolen goods so they costed nothing.
This is evidenced by the fact that even games sold for $3 get discounts. Any game does. Initial asking price has no bearing over the presence of undersold keys.
You cannot compete with "nothing" other than going the F2P with cash shop cancerous route or locking the game behind DRM online features which ruins every game.
Someone explain to me how 3rd party key resellers cost them money?
TinyBuild's CEO/founder is known to be a whiny faggot so who cares though
isnt this that game that forbided people from buying the game until faggots on twitch finished it?
>>342243216
It has literally been explained about 50 times over in this thread. Try reading.
>>342228985
>Because apparently reselling things you buy is bad
Remember when EA tried to fight against used games with multiplayer passes?
>>342243216
Reseller steals key.
Sells them to people who aren't pirates or nothing.
No money for Tinybuild.
>>342243060
Sell it for one cent, literally impossible to sell it for less than that to American audiences.
>>342228597
YOU FUCKING SELF-ENTITLED PIECE OF SHIT! YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO ANYTHING! FUCKING GOOBLERGOOBERS ALWAYS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THE GAME THEY BUY IS GOOD!
>>342243415
Great, divie up that cent to all commercial parties and explain how they survive making videogames.
>>342227993
Aspiring Game Dev Fag
Like I said, Gray Markets harm game devs
Either pirate the game for free or just buy it retail, don't bother with this halfway solution where you spend some money, but it doesn't help the devs
>buying games is a bad thing
see
just pirate it
then nobody gets the money
>>342233902
>Literally the most obvious anti-consumer move in gaming history and yet people brush it off.
People who play vidya are known to defend anti-consumer practices and even get angry about pro-consumer practices such as refunds
>>342243397
>steals key
Wow, so they're like hackers or something? They literally hack steam?
>>342243534
I would say that pirating is better in this situation, prefer that nobody gets the money rather than a fucking thieving chink.
>>342241685
there are no better deals though
what you talk about is either stolen or russian keys
the first one is simply illegal and you could easily just steal all their games aswell and the second one is only possible because russias economy is in the basement and you profit from that with your strong economy
the second one is illegal in Germany at least, you can't set up a shop here, buy russian keys in bulks and resell them
someone did that and got fined, the reason G2A and friends don't have to face that is because they sit in china
>>342243216
It doesn't, the guy is just a fucking piece of shit jew who wants attention. Just like the first time we talked about this loser.
Does Kinguin or g2play (different site than G2A btw) commit fraud?
>>342243594
Uses stolen credit card to bulk buy keys then when the chargeback is initiated they still have the key.
It's been explained so many times in this thread I don't even have the energy to get angry at you. It's even in the OP.
>>342243415
This kind of solution is why we get all the episodic shit and tiny portions of pointless DLC one by one.
To make it a little less harder to make a chunk of a profit for key sellers, so that they are forced to offer a smaller discount than they could afford compared to a whole $50 release.
You asked for this. Remember this any time you complain about cancer and games becoming shit if you buy keys.
>>342243519
What if I want to harm game devs (like you) for being faggots?
>>342242475
the devs may be faggots but this is true and happens everday
they aren't the first ones to complain about this
>>342243812
Then you're not a lost sale, you're just donating to conmen.
Lost sales are the people who wanted to support the product but got suckered.
>>342230452
doesn't steam support have like 10 people working there?
>>342243519
This.
You are paying for piracy, while making the middlemen rich.
We are headed to a future where G2A and the likes will actually become game publishers, and they will have monopoly over selling games as stolen keys.
>>342242871
>Mind blowingly efficient except they have to do it all through Paypal
I don't think Paypal would factor into it at all for the "chinks" or whoever.
>Stolen cards are used to buy legitimate keys - various banks, and possibly Paypal might be involved once cards are found out, but Chinks have long since sold the keys.
>Keys are sold to G2A, Chinks are paid.
...and G2A certainly wouldn't be using "Paypal" to pay the Chinks, especially given their dubious nature......and i'd also speculate that G2A is potentially even subcontracting or directly involved in such buying practices in the first place, so they're probably well setup to move the finances. So not only is the cost of "buying" the keys a legitimate business cost, but they're effectively buying something they probably stole themselves and reaping all the tax and business rewards.
What a time to be alive.
>>342243216
>>342243636
Buying a game from steam guarantees that the dev games money, 70% if I remember right
buying a game from G2A or similar site, means the dev only got the tiny amount the key originally cost in another country
at worst it's with stolen credit info, then the dev gets no money, though there's something written in the steam EULA about this I think, the key can get shut down
>>342233753
>chador
>chad
>>342243885
But the conmen piss you off more than piracy, so it's a small price to pay. Plus I get my multiplayer
>>342243812
Then at some point you won't get any new video games?
>>342244054
>dev only got the tiny amount the key originally cost in another country
Wow, its almost like its not the key reseller's fault for the key being sold cheaper in 3rd world countries
>>342229287
yeah but you guys want the game for 50% and higher of on launch day instead of waiting 1-2 years
I wonder who really is the greddy jew
just pirate already
>>342244197
Things are priced by regions, a US dollar gets you a lot more in Mexico/Canada than it does in the US
I think they have region locked keys as an option, not sure why people don't use that more
>>342244106
with a cute picture like that you are probably not a thief
>>342244146
Is that a bad thing nowadays?
>>342244330
>indie devs are too dumb to understand how money works
>indie devs are too dumb to region lock keys
>>342243612
No one is breaking any laws by buying from a reseller. I don't know where the keys come from and frankly it's not my problem, it's the publishers.
>>342244456
are you trying to be funny?
>>342244456
There's at least 3 good games released each year
>>342244514
No. I legit want the next crash to happen
>>342244563
Okay, so just retarded then.
>>342244472
>indie devs are too dumb to region lock keys
I'm going to guess there's a reason they don't use region locked keys, it's probably a pain in the ass to set up
>>342242868
>implying stores don't buy games in bundles already
That is how they make a profit in the first place. Key sites haven't found a revolutionary way to legally trade for cheap, if they did, other stores would have followed suit and adapted, since they are all losing a fuckton of cash off it.
They cannot physically afford to. You cannot compete with stolen goods.
The evidence is their existence at those prices they offer. They aren't creators, they are sellers. They are bound by stock prices that are not up to them to decide.
The game is stocked at around 70% the final price, with the cut of the retailer being around 30%. Changes around these figures are minor. When you see a 50% to 90% perpetual discount, that is literally impossible and you are objectively losing money on the business if it were legal.
>buying keys from cheaper regions
That is illegal just as stealing credit cards and chargebacking. Currencies and the worth of the goods need to be exchanged if you buy with a different currency/from a different location.
If you bypass this MANDATORY step, the creator and/or whoever seller playing by the rules is losing money.
The key point being that the creator loses money illegally. I couldn't care less about the stores themselves, even though they have a right to complain.
>>342245121
>buying keys from cheaper regions is illegal
>>342244563
>he thinks there will be a crash when companys like EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard, Valve are still around and their shit gets bought by thousands of people
>>342233779
That is extremely anti-consumer.
>some people trying out the game may be turned off by it
Yes, that is the downside of letting anyone trying out the game. You also have people who would be convinced to buy it on the other hand.
If your overall score is negative, this means your game is not good enough. It doesn't mean "demos don't work". Stop trite shit with no depth to the point where playing a 5 minute demo makes you lose interest in the whole game. This was the real reason why demos have stopped being made.
I dislike key sites but this argument is absolute bullshit and you should feel bad for parroting it.
