> TinyBuild, the developer behind games like Punch Club, Party Hard and SpeedRunners, say that game code marketplace G2A sold $450,000 worth of their products, many of them fraudulently acquired. The ensuing chargebacks put them in hot water with their payment provider and ultimately cost them thousands in lost revenue. Making things even more uncomfortable for them, this all occurred during a window of time that TinyBuild was attempting to formalize a relationship with G2A in order to allow them to sell authentic game keys.
> "Websites like G2A are facilitating a fraud-fueled economy where key resellers are being hit with tons of stolen credit card transactions," Alex Nichiporchik wrote on the official TinyBuild blog. "These websites are now growing rapidly due to low pricing of game keys."
> But the cost of dealing with third-party game code resellers can be significant for game developers and publishers. In today’s post Nichiporchik explains how TinyBuild established a small online store to sell their game codes directly to fans. He claims that fraudsters purchased thousands of codes through the portal, and began selling them on G2A.
>"The shop collapsed when we started to get hit by chargebacks," Nichiporchik said, referring to the process by which credit card processors wipe away fraudulent transactions made with stolen credit cards. "I’d start seeing thousands of transactions, and our payment provider would shut us down within days. Moments later you’d see G2A being populated by cheap keys of games we had just sold on our shop."
Daily reminder: do not buy games from key sites since they hurt the developer. If you want more great games then buy from legitimate retailers!
>>342227993
I'd add add don't use a VPN to buy a game from a cheaper country like Russia or India.
not reading all that
Pure cancer, i would rather pirate than support those sites.
>>342228091
Typical millenial
>>342227993
> retailers
You mean you don't track down the whereabouts of the devs, break into their homes, bruteforce their PCs and retrieve an original copy of the game, after leaving 30 bucks on their work desk?
No wonder PC gaming is dying
>implying his shitty indie game would even get 400k in sales
waah waah
Well, I'm shocked. By the fact that there actually exist people that want to play this shit.
i paid 7€ for battlefield 4 one month ago from a key reseller when it costs 20€ on origin suck my dick
>buying games
Guess you better stop charging triple the amount of the Mobile version when there's no difference in versions if you don't want people using third party sites, then.
>>342227993
Literally communists.
>>342228081
>Don't use a vpn to buy a game for cheaper
Fuck that, I'm not paying £50 for games when I can get them for £20-30. I'm not made of money, what would devs want? Me to buy 1 game or 2?
>>342228091
>prepubescent NEET struggles to read four paragraphs
Your parents were right about you being a failure.
>>342228219
you are missing the point
the important part is (atleast for me) that those keys are bought by stolen credit cards and than resold for cheap, its pretty much money laundering for organized crime of all kinds
i never really thought about that but it makes sense
>>342227993
They key has already been bought and they received money from it. What are they whining about?
>>342228446
It's like you didn't even read
For how big of an issue this supposedly is, I don't see a lot of evidence of it actually working that way. I don't use G2A anyway because it's a possible way to gain control over my account anyway, but still.
>>342228452
>we just buy up cheap keys
Are we having one of those moments?
Something the industry sucks at though is telling the consumers which digital retailers are legit. I don't want to support sites that abuse region pricing or pure fraud to sell cheap keys.
I buy from Steam, HumbleBundle, GreenmanGaming, Gamersgate, Direct2Drive and GoG. I assume that these sites are legit but sometimes i wonder when greenmangaming have new games significantly cheaper than other sites. There industry should really get to informing the consumers about these sites.
>hear about game around release
>seemed potentially interesting
>it's literally twitch garbage
I hope they go bankrupt from this.
Can't give a fuck really. When devs start releasing demos for their games I'll stop pirating and using key sites.
You can buy steam gifts from G2A and Kinguin, Mostly they're games that people saved up from sales and later resell them. I've sold some games that I bought piss cheap from xmas sales.
>>342228549
CJS-CDkeys is decent, usually you get a photograph of the games key from the retail copy they have opened up to get it from. No fraud or anything goes on there just cheap keys from eastern europe or some shit
>>342228549
Seems like there's always some sort of discount coupon for GMG as well.
>>342228452
t. G2A dev
>Sites pop up where you can geat games cheaper out of their control
>Get pissy and start making up bullshit because they can't get 50 bucks for their cinematic walking simulators.
>>342228452
>we
>>342228417
>russian mafia and yakuza launder money by reselling videogame keys
>>342228452
G2A locked my account claiming someone had hacked into it, despite nothing being bought and I could still access my account due to the login cookie still working. When I checked my login history every login was from my computer
They said a "specialist" would contact me, they never did, I'd contact them every week asking when I was going speak to this "specialist". Eventually they told me to make another account
Gee I wonder why G2A would lock an account with €300 of goldmine credit earned and waiting to be spent
This is a lie. G2A does not commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional deals and sales and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342227993
People pay for what they consider reasonable prices, shame they are too retarded to see how fucked the market is for 60 dollarino for a 10 hour game or 40 for a 2 hour walking simulator about feels.
This is a lie. G2A does not commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342228452
Using the ol/' "we" and deleteroonie switcheroo.
>we don't want to beat their price so we'll just insinuate people who buy from them are assholes who stole from us
>>342228417
Is there evidence of this? I noticed the 99% of the time it is some indie studio claiming this shit. Sounds more like being butthurt about it and making false accusations.
>G2A is a scam with credit card fraud infesting it like that one fucked up french cheese
what a fucking shocker, never coulda guessed that
>>342227993
>Create online store that is exploitable
>People exploit it
>"Help I'm being exploited!"
>>342228902
It does happen
Devolver are dicks for deactivating keys though. Even if they key was legitimately bought then resold they will deactivate it
Because apparently reselling things you buy is bad
are we being raided
>>342228895
It's hard to beat literally stealing.
Did you miss the stolen credit card chargebacks?
>>342227993
>don't buy from key sites
>the articles this nigga posted clearly states these keys originated FROM TINYBUILD'S SHITTY SELFMADE INDIE STORE
Yeah no anon, this is at least partially their own fault, those keys didn't come from nowhere, they themselves admitted it was keys from their shitty little shop.
The advice you're trying to give is intended for the devs/game companies, NOT for us. If they'd waited to finalize the deal with G2A for legit keys instead of cobbling together a shop "in the meantime" this never would've happened.
>>342228982
Valve's the only one that can do something about it, but they won't
>>342227993
Welcome to PC gaming: the equivalent of a Russian bootleg economy.
>>342227993
>it's another butthurt indie """"""developer""""" episode
>>342228998
Yes. Ben Kuchera here. We're going to infect all of 4Chan with SJW cooties muhahhhahahSeriously, stop being a paranoid fuck
>>342229045
I'd like to add, I don't use g2a or similar sites nor would I - I prefer to wait for sales on legit stores like Steam, GoG, GMG, etc.
>>342228985
He didn't ask if it happened, he asked if there's evidence of it. Which I personally doubt as well.
>TinyBuild established a small online store to sell their game codes directly to fans
If they don't want to be hit by chargeback they can just pay the fat man 30% per sale
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342228806
Or you can hold off your purchase until the price is right for you. I rarely buy games at launch since few games are worth their asking price but i see no reason to go and get the games through sites like G2A when they most likely will drop in price in the near future.
>>342229162
the same thing happens on other stores
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342229162
Their games are already on Steam
I think Speedrunners was? in the top list of active players for a while
>>342228770
Wouldn't put it above the Yakuza. You do know how Pachinko works since it legally can't be gambling, right?
>do what is in our interests
>don't do what is in your interests
"no"
If those fucking jews didn't overprice their shitty game their wouldn't be any need for sites like this.
>>342229045
They were bought via fraud though
>>342229084
Valve have been doing a lot to stop fraud as there was a lot going on on Steam, if too much happens their payment processors will stop providing services to them and they'll be fucked
They said themselves the trade restrictions on game gifts/dota2 compendiums were to try and stem fraud
>>342229157
Is it really that hard to believe people used credit card fraud to make money from an easy target?
>>342228998
We've already been raided by Reddit years ago, 4chan will never be good again
>>342229045
>Developers aren't allowed to set up their own shop and if they do they are free game to scam and commit fraud against
This is basically what you've just said.
The developer did nothing wrong except maybe make it easy to buy mass quantities of games at once.
>>342229004
Nobody buys from these shady as fuck 'hope the key they give me actually works' websites because they're satisfied with the price listen by the game devs on Steam
>>342229287
this.
they are selling a fucking 25-digit code. that's it. not even in a plastic box with printed art and DVD. fuck off with 60$ digital games
>>342229174
Prices are lowered slower than usual nowadays even during sales, companies are doing everything they can to prevent sales.
Then we have the issue where the game community dies out within a few months because there is zero support beyond launch from the developers.
It's simply not viable to buy full price games at launch and waiting for reasonable price means you have a dead game. I'm not fully advocating buying shady keys is the right thing to do but it's the only option nowadays for most people.
>>342229340
Video games don't get made for nothin
>>342229324
>Is it really that hard to believe people used credit card fraud to make money from an easy target?
That hard being not hard at all? No, obviously not you fucking retard.
I never said I found it hard to believe mate. I would just like some evidence.
>>342229236
triad too man
all those east asian organizations are getting their cut of the videogame market
theyd be foolish not to
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342227993
>G2A sold $450,000 worth of their products, many of them fraudulently acquired
>TinyBuild established a small online store to sell their game codes directly to fans. He claims that fraudsters purchased thousands of codes through the portal, and began selling them on G2A.
So it's either one of those, did they sold it to G2A or did G2A acquired them fraudulently ?
Shit doesnt add up
>>342229390
>It's simply not viable to buy full price games at launch and waiting for reasonable price means you have a dead game.
Stop playing multiplayer garbage and you won't have a problem.
I have to add when you get digital prices rivalling physical copies and even higher without any sort of preorder bonus or collector's version then you know the market is fucked.
>>342229454
They're saying G2A bought them with stolen credit cards. So fraudulent, according to their claims.
>TinyBuild
>>342229387
>years ago
>buy game for normal price
>longass intstruction with tons of artwork, loreand great glue for smelling
>cd
>sometimes soundtrack
where did it all go wrong
>>342229045
The keys were bought from the devs with fake/stolen credit card. The cards were charged back, and then the thief sold the keys to G2A.
I don't see how G2A is to blame, other than being a passive market for thieves to trade in.
It would be like if people were using 4chan to trade CP. Sure, 4chan isn't actually making and trading the stuff, it's just a platform for user content. But at the same time, it isn't allowed to passively allow it to happen either.
>>342229510
Credit cards themselves are fraud. Only debit should be allowed. That way the money deducts directly from an account.
>>342229474
So what you are saying is buy only singleplayer games that you can count on one hand per year release? You do know everything is developed towards online and multiplayer nowadays beyond as said a handful of games.
>>342227993
I did for skyrim because I needed access to the steam workshop but I dont want them to get money
>>342229608
Sounds like a perfect opportunity to work on your backlog.
>>342229326
To an extent, yes. But I mean that in doing so, they knowingly invite potential fraud if they don't take proper precautions, and they're trying to blame a third party, g2a, for it. Note that, despite blaming them now, in the same paragraph it states they were trying to work WITH G2A in the FIRST PLACE, their now-scapegoat.
I just take offense that they're shifting blame to, an admittedly shady, key-selling site that they themselves were "in talks with". It's not G2A's fault by any stretch, they can't verify it any better than the devs' store could have, but when the keys came from THEIR store that may not have been as secure or properly set up, it's not G2A's fault.
>>342229608
>You do know everything is developed towards online and multiplayer nowadays beyond as said a handful of games.
>He only plays western tribbable A trash
I don't know about you but I find enough games to keep me occupied while only playing single player games
>>342229537
>and great glue for smelling
based as fuck
also it started kinda innocent and convenient as a few games were on steam and valve/other devs didn't ask a full retail price for new releases. it was always $49 for a digital copy $59 for physical
now it's $89+ for digital "full" game with season pass meme
>>342229454
the guys that sell on g2a carded shit off the tinybuild store then resold it
>>342227993
I'll go for the cheaper option always.
>>342229717
I'm glad you found yourself occupied with Japanese VN but it's not for everyone.
>>342227993
Memes aside that sucks. I mean those games are cheap as fuck in bundles and in sales, buying from G2A is just being a jerk
>>342227993
Even when they spend actual money, Pcucks can't support the developers. Is it a curse?
>>342229340
There's nothing shady about them and every single keys I've ever bought always worked
Now I dont mind the "shady" reputation, it keep normies away and the system needs fucktards paying 59.99$ on steam to stay alive
>>342229695
There is no proper precautions against people using charge backs. The only thing you can do is disable any keys bought with that specific card once it happens.
>>342227993
>Buying cheap games hurts developers financially
Looks like piracy wins again
Why don't devs just charge less for their games? It's how business works. You need to be competitive.
>>342229790
No, I don't play VNs, only vidja games.
THANKS FOR FREE MARKETING. DON'T FORGET TO BUY OUR GAME FROM OUR STORE. XOXO
Reputable key stores sell scanned in retail keys from Hong Kong or wherever the game is cheap.
If you buy from fucking private Russian key on g2a you are literally retarded
>>342227993
Good, the only way to kill cancerous devs is to buy their games off key sites where they'll lose money compared to just pirating their games.
>>342229818
The good developers are doing just fine.
Notice how it's always the bottom of the bottom, meme trash tier indie devs that are complaining.
>>342229510
>g2a bought them with stolen cards
Nigga what is reading comprehension? G2A doesn't buy with stolen cards, they buy what MAY have been bought with stolen cards under the use of someone else
1) Dev puts up store with games for sale
2) Russian "fraudsters" buy up 100s of keys with stolen credit cards
3) Russians sell to G2A, take profit and run as chargebacks ensue
>>342229474
>waiting for reasonable price means you have a dead game.
If a game you want is dead by the time it comes down in sale, is it really worth your money to begin with? A game that dies rapidly is obviously a shit game.
>>342227993
>it's a pccuck problem
wew mustard my ass
>>342229864
because they still have to make money, commie
>>342229608
>new deus ex
>nier automata
>new god of war
>witcher DLC so long that it might as well be a game
>ni-oh
>final fantasy 15
>doom
>dishonored 2
>mafia 3
>hitman 6
>dark souls 3 (online has always been shit)
>persona 5
>total war warhammer
A FUCKING HANDFUL
>>342229856
There is: don't allow purchases with credit cards ;)
>>342229864
Assuming this story is true, then G2A would just charge less. Unless you sell your game for 0,01$, it's pretty much impossible to undercut G2A.
>>342228390
>what would devs want? Me to buy 1 game or 2?
They want you to buy 1 game for the price of 2
I bought punch club on mobile for $1 and still feel ripped off. Why the fuck would you make a character raising sim where all your stats automatically go down every day?
I buy things from G2A and other sites because they offer prices that I think games are actually worth. Instead of spending 80$ CAD on Doom 4, I can get it for 35$ or so, which is a lot more reasonable for me.
>>342229956
True. Online retailers should only accept stuff like paysafecard or whatever local varieties
STILL surprised hundledundle wont accept PSC
>>342230006
The people who bought Reality: The Game
>>342227993
>If you want more great games then buy from legitimate retailers!
As soon as legitimate retailers reduce their price
thanks pewdiepie
>>342229907
Fine, I don't see how that distinction would matter though. Same shit.
>>342230023
Doom 4 couldn't be made on 35$ per copy though, so basically you would get nothing
>buy from 99-100% sellers from G2A
>never have a problem
>implying G2A sell games
>implying it's not russkis selling their stolen keys with a stolen credit card
>>342228390
That's exactly what they want, for you to buy their game at full prices, hopefully multiple copies and then buy all the DLCs, or else. They don't understand that it's gonna hurt them in the long run and most Denuvo games have flopped, but they will continue to push for this nonetheless.
>>342229167
Part of that is buying up cheap keys from the people committing credit card fraud.
>>342229608
>>342229923
Also forgot xcom 2 and we happy few
15 almost completely singleplayer games that I plan on playing all of them this year
you're fucking delusional if you think single player games don't get made anymore
>>342230102
The Witcher 3 sold on GoG and Steam for 30-40$ I think, plus their DLC and they sold plenty.
I'm not going to pay $60+ for a game I'll only play singleplayer.
>>342229907
its not just "russian fraudsters", stolen credit cards are an market on their own
take a guess what kind of people are involved in it, its basicly the lowest scum from all around the world, drug money, human trafficking, etc
>>342229921
thy sold them for cheaper themselves and they complain about keys being resold for more by not them. typical indie jews in action
>>342230068
The distinction is, legally, huge. It's the different between arresting a murderer or the guy who owns the gun shop that sold him the murder weapon. Arresting the shop owner won't get the murderer off the streets, who would just go to another gun store.
>>342227993
"they bought something cheap that means I lost money!" - millennials on how they think the market works
>>342230193
>I'm not going to pay $60+ for a game I'll only play singleplayer.
You are literally killing single player games. You are responsible for Evolve, Titanfall and MMOFPS.
>>342230207
good. fuck humans
>played GTA V on consoles.
>Think it's very mediocre
>Still enjoy modding gta games and driving around in faster modded cars
>Rockstar and 2k have neglecting pc fanbase by delaying their games on pc yet still charge full price of $60 years later.
>Buy the game on g2a for more than 40% off
>Support Pajeet feed his village
>Rockstar and the 2kjews don't get et a single dime.
A FEELS SO FUCKING GOOD.
I also pirates before but can't bother downloading the shitload of patches for their unoptimized game.
>Do
>make a game
>it's okay, but way too overpriced
>people buy the games in bulk from cheaper sources
>could have just sold the game cheaper and reach a lot more people
greed is a powerful drug
>>342230249
No.
"They bought something cheap which I did not also have the opportunity to buy cheap; this is unfair"
>>342227993
>We lost so much money because they do illegal things!
>We won't press charges tho, mainly because we have no proofs lol
Go to court or shut the fuck up
>>342230207
lmao you make carding seem too sinister
you mean they cost them 450k that they overcharged for their games in the first place trying to rip off people that can afford to pay that much
>>342230246
Not really, the comparison would make more sense with a drug maker and a drug seller, or a thief and a guy that sells stolen shit, both are against the rules. Though I can see that there's a difference legally, in practice it doesn't matter.
>>342230207
Yeah, I prefer to give them money by renting their child sex slaves instead, not through video games.
>>342230317
This desu
This is a lie. G2A doesn't commit credit card fraud, they just buy up cheap keys. They are just simply looking for regional sales and deals and stock up during those, that's why they can sell the games so cheap.
>>342229971
underrated
>>342230272
You failed to see my point that Witcher 3, a solely based singeplayer game, did amazingly well.
the reason we got Evolve/Titanfall/The Division is because shitty companies want to appeal to a large mass while trying to appear hip and cool about it, yet retain no passion in their games.
so they all dropped hard. I didn't buy any of those games, either.
>Buy game from key store
>key already in use
>shit
>email them
>actual live chat with employee within 5 minutes of writing the email
>they apologise
>get replacement key after 10 minutes
>works
even chink keystores have better customer support than Steam
>>342230163
if that was true, they would be closed by now. These stores have been around for years, and Steam already locks fraudolently-acquired keys. Face it, it's just indie devs bitching because they aren't as rich as Notch.
>>342230378
>>342230317
Problem is, there's no guarantee you will sell more copies just by lowering the price.
Example: Anime BDs. They tried lowering the prices on some sample series in Japan and all that resulted was less money coming in. A niche product that is for the most part already reaching its widest possible userbase cannot get money from new users.
>>342230280
good lad. GTA5 is fucking awesome but on my PS3 it ran like fucking horrid shit and when it came out on PC 2 years later I mostly just sped around with real acceleration/top speed mod
Didn't give them money once and if I plan on getting it for online I'll go for G2A, fuck them fuck them fuck them, good games but might as well go bankrupt if they keep pulling shit
>>342227993
>buying indie games
>in the year of MMXVI
how cucked do you have to be?
>>342228417
>be a good goy and pay 40-60 dollers for yo gams
Fuck off
>>342230452
>Buy game from key store
>activate key
>email them
>actual live chat with employee within 5 minutes of writing the email
>they apologise
>get a second key after 10 minutes
>give it to my friend
>works
>>342230443
Witcher 3 is made in Poland. They're cheating on living standards. Only reason they can afford to make the game, that and console sales where the game is 60 bucks+DLC
>we can't disable the keys because it would piss off the FANS
>we can't tell which keys came from stolen credit cards
See this is what I have a problem with. If this is genuine (which I doubt) then there should absolutely be a transaction log with which keys were paid for with which card. When that card does a chargeback you could match it up, disable the key, tell consumer not to buy from g2a
Why hasn't this happened?
>fans
Yeah such hardcore fans that they aren't willing to pay the price you decided on.
this is the exact same shit that went on with the Sniper Elite 2 keys a while back
Then they claimed "stolen" and revoked a ton of keys to get attention for their game which, surprise surprise, was a big turd
They couldn't provide any proof of theft and refused to give any details of the police report they "claimed" they had filed. All the revoked keys were replaced by these shady shady sites for no cost almost immediately (mine being one of them)
Or, and this is a pretty WILD idea, don't allow credit cards to purchase keys from you directly. Only accept immediate payment. Only accept from trusted resellers. Why is this not blindingly obvious?
If your system can be manipulated like this then why don't you CHANGE YOUR SYSTEM
>>342230452
While I agree, to be fair, shit YOU buy straight from Steam isn't ever fucking going to give you a "key in use" error.
>>342230472
Then make a better fucking product.
>>342228091
fuck off then
>>342230472
That's because anime isn't normalfag friendly.
>>342230352
its an economy, that doesnt mean that the people who acually steal the cards/card informations are directly involved in the other stuff aswell, but they interact with them
"dirty" money on itself cant be used regualy so they have to find ways to wash it
you'd have to be a real special kind of retard to pay money to pirate
>>342230573
Make Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare 2 you say? We're already on it!
>>342228770
You do know G2A is involved with the Russian mafia right?
>Developers release games with 1/4 the content of games they made 8 years ago
>Expect me to pay double the price
>Get mad when I use a 3rd party site
kek lmao
Considering devs are now trying to push the 60 bucks meme I'll keep buying cheaper keys
fuck them
>>342230597
A lot of video games still arent either, like grand strategy
>>342230373
No, more like a thief and a pawn shop
>>342230619
Hows pirating denuvo protected games working out for you? Did you like DOOM?
>>342230664
You do know most video game pubs in Japan are involved with the Yakuza right?
>>342230729
okay, the one (1) game that makes sense is doom.
>>342230103
>Russkis sell bad keys
>G2A gets confronted
>"There's nothing we can do, because you won't enter a deal with us" (Code: "We don't want to take the losses for allowing thieves to abuse our system. ")
>>342227993
What if I just pirate them?
>>342230724
I already said that mate.
It's funny that it's always some shitty dev of indie pixel trash game no sane person ever heard of, that is complaining about piracy or "unfairness" of the market.
I wonder why.
>>342230729
You shouldn't even illicitly buy games with Denuvo on them. It only encourages them
>>342230350
It's a striking coincidence that a bunch of stolen CCs were used to buy the games legitimately and immediately afterwards a similar number of licenses appeared on G2A.
They'd have to ask G2A for their list of key providers, because they obviously aren't doing this themselves.
However, because that information would incriminate them (they would have to prove ignorance), they would be smart not to give it up without a warrant.
The dev would need to hire a PI to look into it because police do nothing for cyber crimes.
>>342230564
So? Got a game for $30 that would have been $60 bucks on Steam.
Key was obviously scanned in from a retail copy so it wasn't some credit card fraud either
>>342230838
They don't get shit. They keys are bought with fraudulent cards.
Here's a solution: don't sell your game for less money in the third world, just let the third world pirate like they always did. So greedy you have to siphon up every last bit of potential money even when it's pennies on the dollar, eh, merchants?
>>342227993
You know what this means?
DELAYED DELIVERY IS COMING BACK!
>>342230529
I've even gotten refund from a key seller site, what kind of world do we live in where customer service and refunds are better from legal loopholes than official ones?
>It's another entitled indieshit dev episode
>>342230632
CoD is a good product though. It fits in a large sector of the market, has high appeal among different demographics, good name recognition and is fiscally reliable. It's not an expression of a creator, but it is a good product. If you're in for the money you make a fucking product, if you want to give the world your vision you disregard the very idea of living off it and any money it may bring you is just people's appreciation. Don't make a piece of shit nobody but you likes and then bitch about it not making you enough money. If you want money then you must think in terms of the market.
>>342227993
As a consumer in a free market it is well within my right to go to another shop if they sell what I want for a lower price.
The problem here it seems is some small website not putting in the proper precautions to prevent the usage of dodgy cards to get keys. It is no ones fault but the website that isn't fucked to prevent this.
>>342229324
evidence please.
>>342230913
They're implying G2A doesn't lower prices because of regional pricing, but because of fraudulent cards though.
>>342230882
They probably sold the retail ver to half price books and now some kid who bought it doesn't have his d44m. YOU RUINED HIS DAY
>>342230936
If you want the whole industry to be like CoD then go ahead but I don't.
>>342230837
Because they don't have the money to combat it.
>>342230805
That's like bitching about getting some stolen game from ebay. It isn't ebay's fault unless they partner together to establish what is and isn't stolen
>>342230818
No?
A pawn shop is legal. A guy that buy and sells stolen goods is not.
Or you're the first guy and yes
Inb4 rich jew totalasscancer makes a video complaining about it.
I only use g2a. I couldn't care less if some indie pixelshit company goes bankrupt. I'm not going to pay 60€ for games with 20-30 hours of gameplay.
This is a problem with digital goods.
Solution: Don't sell digital goods.
>>342231005
A pawn shop that sells stolen goods isn't legal. A legal pawn shop is irrelevant in this comparison, because then G2A would've reported the stolen keys to the developer and the devs wouldn't have lost the money.
>>342230925
Official ones have an established clientele and they don't need to worry about losing business. Smaller places actually need to give a shit about their customers because they don't have as many and are closer to going out of business.
Just don't sell games to third world shitholes like russia.
>>342227993
Oy vey goyim how dare you not pay $89.99 for a 20 minutes long "game" with no gameplay! You're not entitled are you goy? Go buy it! Don't buy on sale, don't use keysites, don't get it for free, it harms the poor developers who won't be able to buy their 10th yacht this month!
They should just make their games free to play.
>>342230843
And if they have good proof of that, they can just go to court.
Like every game company that complains and, surprise surprise, never sue G2A and all the other marketplaces.
You can scream all you want, if you don't want to go to court and you don't want to give hard proof for what you say, you have to shut up.
G2A could sue for slander so much companies
>>342231118
And maybe that's where it all went wrong, gaming industry and some developers are too big to fail over a handful of mistreated customers so they can afford it trivializing them.
Most g2a keys are bought by the thousands during sales/bundles and resold for a little bit more, it would be FUCKING RIDICULOUS if everything there was carded and people would take action against them, carding isn't as easy as just finding out someones CC details, getting a steam key and reselling it cheaper.
That being said if their website was actually used by carders its because it was shit and they didn't take any measure to stop them from doing this, steam will cancel your transaction and key if the payment is marked as fraudoulous, why don't they?
>>342231271
I assure you it's not exclusive to video games. That's the nature of almost all business once it passes a certain threshold.
>>342231114
This is where you're lost.
A legal pawn shop, LIKE G2A, can buy occasionnaly stolen goods by accidents, because they don't know it's stolen.
If it's reported stolen, if someone actually fucking sue, they cooperate with the police and give back the stolen items.
You have, and the company have, zero fucking proof that the keys on G2A are stolen, that G2A is aware of that and they even refuse to sue.
Try going to a pawn shop screaming "this was stolen from me! give it back! I have no proof and I won't sue!" and see what happens
>>342230937
how is a website supposed to know that a credit card is stolen? The card holders don't know that it has been stolen until the transactions go through and doesn't go reported as stolen until the transactions have been done.
>>342229971
Sad, but true
>>342231001
Fair point. Something about the system still feels off though. I would have to think about it more before I'm ready to let G2A off completely.
>>342231401
>A stolen item will be permanently marked in the inventory with a red icon
>>342231401
you cant know until the transaction gets chargedback, which is not a problem, you just cancel the key, you lost - N O T H I N G
>>342231401
Then you have some way of invalidating the key given out.
>>342231384
First, G2A isn't a pawn shop. Secondly, if they "accidentally" buy stolen shit they're not doing their job correctly. Thirdly, if they were legal, then there'd be enough time for fraudulent transactions to come to light, which would be reported to the pawn shop before they can sell the "stolen" goods. Fourthly, there would be proof in the case of fraudulent transactions, namely chargebacks, if there weren't any chargebacks there wouldn't be any issues anyway.
This is assuming the claims of the article are correct of course.
>>342227993
Capitalism in action, nigger. If developers don't want me to buy from sites like G2A and Kinguin, then they should start matching the prices I get on those websites.
>>342231210
Let's role-play.
You're ant investigator.
A client comes to you with this amazing coincidence that an equal number of licenses purchased with stolen CCs have also appeared on key resellers within a window of mere days.
They want you to help prove it's not just a coincidence.
What's the first thing you do to earn your salt?
>>342230538
Or maybe western devs should learn to budget their shit and stop spending so much money on overblown budgets.
>>342231767
>What's the first thing you do to earn your salt?
Deploy an ant eater of course.
>>342230729
Yeah it was a very good game, even now it holds really well. Romero level design was top notch, pity he kinda ruined his name with daikatana and all the other shit.
>>342231767
Tell him to hire a lawyer and a statistician.
>>342231574
this. I fucking hate neo /v/.
>>342231689
pretty much
>>342227993
pirated this punch club
shit game
>>342228770
You do know, organized criminals don't really have standards, right? They just want to make money, and they'll do whatever gets them the most. If it's worth the investment of manpower, then they'll do it gladly. It's not like a movie, where they're too Nobre and Honrobuh, to deal drugs or whatever.
>>342230729
Doom? You mean Call of Doomty? The game that bombed recently? Meh.
>>342231767
I head downtown to talk to a local rat, we call him Jimmy the Nose.
He might not want to give up the goods at first, but in the end he'll talk.
They always talk.
>>342231840
>>342231597
you don't think that the administrative cost as well as any banking fees associated with straightening out this is not lost?
And given the reaction in this thread I'm sure you faggots would scream fucking murder if the game dev starting cancelling your keys even if you bought it off of a 3rd party key seller. Easier to blame the victim of the crime I suppose.
btw, that developer's game has been on various cheap places such as humble indie bundle for a dollar.
G2A could of brought a bunch of cheap keys and resell em for higher prices.
>>342231597
>>342231606
Who benefits in this though? G2A and the scammer.
>>342231937
It didn't sell well? I thought it was great for the first half of the game,after that nothing new happens and it gets boring. The MP is garbage of course.
>>342232000
People did that a few times when uplay and origin kicked people out of their 5$ Watch Dogs and Battlfield 4 copies bought with stolen cc infos from Mexico.
>>342231656
Yeah, that's what an analogy is. You're great, keep going.
How do you know the items is stolen? Physical and digital? This isn't fucking oblivion>>342231574
>If they were legal
But they are. That's the whole point. G2A is 100% fucking legal. You want to contest it? Fucking sue them. Stop hiding behind "well, I scream very loudly that they are not legal, so..."
Other marketplace don't use a delay to see if the item is stolen or not. This is like every other physical marketplace that can occasionnaly sell stolen goods without knowing.
>>342231767
go talk to the reseller
they would like to talk to your client and work with them to stop anything happening like this again
your client refuses and goes to the local newspaper instead for no reason
well look like my work here is done
>>342232000
of course, but that will happen no matter what you do, and the only way to stop it is to cancel those keys so carders know your vendor CANNOT be used to wash money.
What's so fucking hard to grasp? No one does this shit on steam except some newly fresh cunt who thinks he will get away with it
>>342232034
yeah obviously, but not a lot of shit is carded there
>>342232108
>You want to contest it? Fucking sue them.
>he thinks he can sue a bunch of chinks
>>342232108
>Other marketplace don't use a delay to see if the item is stolen or not.
Then they're not a legal pawnshop. Thanks for clearing that up. So the analogy of a thief and a guy selling stolen shit both being illegal holds up.
I already addressed the rest.
>>342232181
>wash money
*launder money
>>342232181
>and the only way to stop it is
But when a majority of their business is done like this they have no incentive to be legitimate.
Its not like keys are a physical commodity, the publisher looses nothing from fraudulent purchases.
If they were smart they would just deactivate the keys so they have nothing to sell
>>342231929
Yes and? they deserve to make money too for their hard work :^)
Fuck em.
Some games aren't worth the price tag.
I was happy to pay full price for Witcher 3 and the game showed just how much effor the devs pooled into it.
I'm not paying $60 for Todd Howards new game in the same engine with the same script and the same gameplay with a new shiny layer. Actually I won't even "sample" that for free.
Look at Kingdom. Indie game. Devs never bitched about it. Sold for $9.99. Sold a crap ton and it ran and played well.
>>342229565
>I don't see how G2A is to blame
Half the keys on their site are for sale through illegal means. They are completely aware and alright with this.
Literally worse than piracy, as they are taking money out of the dev's pockets. If you want it that bad, just pirate it.
>>342227993
>Punch Club, Party Hard and SpeedRunners
>>342231001
>It isn't ebay's fault
Actually yes it is, and they're every bit as liable as those selling the stolen goods.
In fact there have been numerous court cases regarding exactly that with stores that specialized in counterfeit goods etc
>>342231546
Ignore the other anon, he has literally no idea what he's talking about. G2A absolutely can be held accountable for who they choose to do business with.
G2A and Kinguin are both part of the same company located in Hong Kong
They can do whatever they want because sue'ing the chinese is impossible even for big global companies and world players.
Maybe devs should start making products worth paying full price for, at a price that reflects the quality and length of the game. I've pretty much only bought games on G2A for the last year because they sell games for what they are really worth.
Remember when GabeN said "piracy is a service problem, not a pricing problem" referring to how people wanted their content instantly 24/7 instead of having to go to the store? Well now we have a pricing problem. No one wants to spend $60 for a game that could be a broken mess with a dead multiplayer, hackers that never get banned and full of extra content you have to pay $5 - $15 just to get the full product.
Look at how Blops 3 and Rainbow Six: Siege skyrocketed in sales and players when they both got $15 starter editions. They started being sold at the price they are actually worth and players welcomes them with open arms because of it. If games started being sold for a realistic price that reflects the actual value of the game they will end up making even more money because more people will be willing to buy it.
>>342232246
>Then they're not a legal pawnshop.
Mind pointing to the law that say "marketplace must always have a dealy to verify if an item is stolen or not"?
Because I don't think it exist, champ. So no, you're still wrong.
>>342227993
So there's no way to deactivate the copies that were fraudulently acquired?
The Chinks are undercutting both the developing and Valve, so they might actually get assistance from the latter.
Fuck are they losing from deactivating them? Teach those shitweasels a lesson, they'll do whatever you let them do and you're fucking delusional if you think the market isn't going to grow from here.
Also if this shit is stolen, how the fuck is it Gray?
>>342232414
And yet companies still actively decide to do business with those Hong Kong companies because they're just as corrupt as the others.
>>342232372
Truly the epitome of game quality.
>>342231001
>>342231546
I have no idea why you think eBay isn't liable for acting as a store for stolen goods but they are.
See >>342232410
>>342232181
You're entirely missing the fact that the vendor has no idea how the keys were purchased. Even if you were to have the keys canceled, the vendor doesn't know this as they only broker the transaction. So for the most part, the criminal still gets his cut and the dev/customer are left holding the bag.
G2A couldn't give a shit about this because they can sit on plausible deniability, still get their cut and to hell with whoever's back they get carried on
>>342232250
I'm not talking about g2a and most people who sell there dont sell carded shit
>China is killing western indie devs
>>342232474
>So there's no way to deactivate the copies that were fraudulently acquired?
There is, but the last time a dev did this for Sniper Elite 3, they got fucking shit on, as people just don't understand that what they're buying is stolen.
>>342232516
hey fuck you, speedrunners was good.
>>342232464
http://money.howstuffworks.com/pawnshop4.htm
This clearly says you're not allowed to handle stolen goods, it's one of the first links on google you incompetent fuck. I don't have a link to the specific law anyway, because I'm not well versed in cross-continental laws, or laws from Russia. But yeah, denial is better.
Handling stolen goods is illegal.
>>342232519
What the fuck are you doing?
>>342232551
plausible deniability is one of those things you say to a court appointed defense lawyer and they beg you to consider taking a plea.
Daily reminder game devs and publishers would LOVE to charge you $80 for a game and another $80 for DLCs and Season Passes, not to mention Early Access.
Fight it, buy from G2A and other key-selling sites. Give a strong signal they WILL lose money if they decide to jew their customers.
inb4 waah the costs go up so they have to charge more
Yeah, I'll take that into consideration next time a game studio located in downtown LA which absurdly overpays their employees (and dumps money into marketing) tells me that.
>>342230117
>They don't understand that it's gonna hurt them in the long run and most Denuvo games have flopped
And do pirates not understand that Denuvo only exists because of them?
>>342232551
Again, dev does not need to give a shit, chargeback happens, you cancel the key. That's what any competent vendor does.
And again, G2A does not rely solely on carding, if they find a vendor that can be used to launder carded money then fuck yeah they'll get involved but they CANNOT RELY solely on that since people will stop buying there if all the keys get cancelled.
Most of that shit is bought by the thousands on sales/bundles
>>342228597
fucking this I used to love demos so much and a lot of them often convinced me to buy games I had no interest in
>>342232448
the problem with digital goods is that they easily lose their value, and devs constantly exploit people with the pricing.
No digital game should cost 60€ EVER. There's no expenses for distribution to cover. There's no physical retailers taking 50% of the cut.
If you buy digital games at 60€ you're being exploited.
>>342232372
>irrelevant dev
>complains the loudest
Poetry.
>>342232637
You're fucking stupid.
There is a great difference between saying "you cannot handle stolen goods" and "you have to verify everytime you have a product in your hand that it is stolen"
You are also completely forgetting that the reseller could have no idea that the good is in fact stolen.
Go back to law school if you can't make that difference
>>342227993
>developer behind games like Punch Club
Yeah he's full of shit.
>>342232350
It's really some mob type shit. Take the stolen goods, sell it for cheaper, undercutting the major businesses, so they have to get i bed with you, in order to compete.
>>342232625
Do it anyway. Fuck em. Chinks and the people they deal with alike are stealing from you, their outrage ain't worth shit.
You lower the price to $30, the Chinks lower it to $15. You lower it to $15, they lower it to $5. You lower it to $5, they lower it to 50 cents.
There's no way to adequately fight these twats on their own terms, it's a digital commodity and all the shits stolen, it's literally nothing but profit for them. Just throw up your hands and stick your dick in their dumbfuck consumers.
