>first game was an innovative masterpiece that invented all-new mechanics we've never seen before in brand new context
>the next 4 games don't innovate jack shit
Why? Can't FromSoft make something original again?
>>342135312
>first game was an innovative masterpiece
Yes, Kingsfield sure was.
>the next 10 games don't innovate jack shit
You are correct.
>>342135806
Kings Field didn't invent the iconic online mechanics, anon.
>King's Field in 3rd person
>innovative masterpiece that invented all-new mechanics we've never seen before in brand new context
Bruh
>>342135981
But it did invent everything else in the games.
>>342136162
I don't think King's Field was third person and had more unique animations for a player character than any game previously.
King's Field IV was better than any Souls game and Bloodborne.
>>342135312
>Can't FromSoft make something original again?
fuck that
Shadow Tower Abyss sequel when
Bloodborne brought some new things anon.
It's DS3 that rehashes shit from 1 and bloodborne
>>342136284
You are right.
But it did have the enemies you have fought and the weapons you use as well as pretty much the exact same story.
The souls franchise is a spiritual successor to kings field and the more bells and whistles they keep taping on to it won't retroactively change that.
>>342135981
You think Dark Souls invented online VS?
>>342135312
Dark Souls is actually closer to how melee-oriented action games in the 3rd person origenally worked in 3d environments. For instance Onimusha. What seperates Dark Souls from such games as that is the stamina bar which was already down in several monster hunter games.
People in this thread have obviously never actually played Kingsfield or Shadow Tower.
Those games play like actual ass.
because it was a great game and we wanted more of the same
why is that an issue?
DaS 2 tried to better itself but Miyazaki just ignored it completely and pretended it never happened. DaS 3 felt like one step forward and one step back.
>>342135312
Because Sony and Japan studios designed the game
>>342136768
>we wanted more of the same
They couldn't even accomplish that
>>342136594
>Bloodborne brought some new things anon.
Not really. It was more innovative than the other sequels, sure, but overall almost nothing about it is unique. The biggest changes were some very specific combat gimmicks which hold no relevance to anything outside of Souls clones. Stuff like the online mechanics was basically machine-copied regardless of how much sense it made in that setting.
>>342137156
i quite enjoyed every souls game. granted, ds2 was a bit weak, but i still enjoyed it
>>342135312
>all-new mechanics we've never seen before i
this is bullshit
i love demon souls but it is bullshit
>>342136162
King's Field is slow garbage. You people need to stop this meme that King's Field was the first true Souls. Souls took some ideas but overall it's very unique compared to that dead King's Field franchise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5KvrbZvmMw
Morrowind has better combat than this shit. MORROWIND HAS BETTER COMBAT!
Anons, kings field is fucking shit and doesn't actually play like the souls games, I never understood the comparison
>inb4 20 answers calling me a retard
it sure is difficult being right where there is so little justice
>>342138018
Excellent. Can you inform me of the game that came up with the death and respawn system, the shield-heavy melee combat, the single button swap between 1/2-hands, the online message system, the online players randomly invading your world to kick your ass, and so on?
>>342135981
phantasy star online did
>>342135312
Daily reminder that only DeS, DS and BB are canon
DS2 and DS3 are shitty spinoffs
>>342136712
>retards in charge of understanding the difference between Demon's Souls and Dark Souls
>>342136162
>>342136826
wtf?theres countless ds2 references in ds3
>>342135312
>>the next 4 games don't innovate jack shit
because it's still a part of the same series why would they change it like American Mario 2
>>342136826
>>342139695
Anyone else feel like Dark Souls is stronger when the games aren't connected at all
I fucking hated all the callbacks to previous titles in ds3, it was literally a "greatest hits"
>>342135806
>LE Kingsfield was great meme
fuck off edgelord have you even played it? its trash
granted that it influenced DS but all these faggots coming out of the woodwork claiming it was "the original dark souls" need to stop
>>342139932
ds2 did it worst, it even had ''grossly incandecent'' written on a item description, and a fucking shied with solaire painted on it. and theres also the broken statue of ds1, come on, thats literally retarded, what a broken statue is doing untouched in a place that have nothing to do with the original place from ds1? and its even broken in the same way and the pieces are in the same position
>>342137297
The rally system can be used in literally any game. You could even put it in shooters. It's a bigger deal than people realize
>>342139932
The callouts to Demons in 3 were some of the most egregious I've seen in a video game. Like, why does the Storm Ruler exist? It makes no sense as its own lore in 3, but it can't be the one from the Demons either, so it's just retarded.
>>342136092
>What is Tenchu.
>Various normal attacks in running, rolling, and other non-neutral states.
>Stances.
>Canned backstabs.
>Weapon blocking.
>Belted items (including firebombs, lures, etc).
>Enemies are retarded but dangerous due to high damage.
The gameplay is practically lifted from Tenchu dog, with in a coat of Kingsfield paint.
>>342140110
They're pretty fun games to be honest. Great atmosphere.
>>342135312
>Demon's Souls
Invented the unique online interactions
Invented the stamina bar being the crux of all action
Invented the Souls currency system
>Dark Souls
Invented the brand iconography
Invented the limited Estus healing system
>Dark Souls 2
Invented the widest range of weapon types, attack styles, power stancing and best PvP in recent non-MMO video game history
>Dark Souls 3
Invented...uh...the skill ba- no, Demon's Souls had that...
Invented Anor Lo- no, Dark Souls had that...
Invented a wide ranged of- no, Dark Souls 2 still had more...
>>342135312
Demon souls was a one trick pony. They then produced the same game over and over. You should not be surprised it isn't anything new in this shitty industry.
>>342135981
>iconic
Hahjahahahajahahhahaha
Fucking halal mate.
>>342140598
>Bloodborne
Best Weapons
Best Atmosphere and best example of Lovecraft in any media outside of Literature
Hardest without a doubt
Best waifu
Best soundtrack
I understand why /v/ shits on it though, simply because it isn't on PC and honestly I wish it was so PC cucks would stop shitting on it
>>342135981
Hmm? Forced PvP? Well, I played that in Diablo 2, so there's that.
>>342140910
Blood borne was really short. Not much longevity 8/10 at best. No replay value.
>>342140910
BB had shit for builds and replay value compared to the other games
>>342140449
I was pissed when I found the maiden in black.
>>342140910
>hardest
It had the hardest beginning but the game becomes really easy once you understand the mechanics. Probably my second favorite after Demon's.
>>342140910
>Hardest without a doubt
Bloodborne is my favorite in the series but it's by far the easiest game.
>>342141049
>>342141106
totally agree with those points
I always lose interest in a game after at most 80 hours or so
Ill never understand people who sink hundreds of hours into souls games
>>342140910
Bloodborne isn't a Souls series game.
>>342135312
What was innovative outside of online? The combat was just non-cuhrazy Japanese action game combat.
>>342135312
It's like you never played a single armored core game.
fucking neo /v/
>>342141212
So why are we also discussing Demon Souls
Even when Miyazaki says it has nothing to do with DS it still counts literally because it has "Souls" in the title?
>>342140910
"Best" is entirely subjective and irrelevant to this thread. We're talking about what each game INVENTED.
>>342141334
>So why are we also discussing Demon SOULS
Like dude are you fucking nuts
>>342140598
>implying Soul Games invented that shit
nope, there were other games doing that (except the iconography)
>>342141106
>All the other Souls games.
>4 basic stats plus mixed stat builds with a few gimmick builds.
>Use 1-2 moves and one stance the entire game.
>BB.
>4 basic stats plus mixed stat builds with a few gimmick builds.
>Use shit tons of moves and constantly swap stances.
There is no game play variety in Souls, it's quite limiting due to how shitty the movesets are.
would like a Demon Souls Remake for PC
don't care about BB
>>342141212
BB plays almost identically to the Souls games, literally the only thing that differentiates it is that dodges have a different animation and you have a gun, and even that serves effectively the same purpose as parrying. The only reason it isn't just called "Blood Souls" is probably because of the possibility of some kind of legal issues between Sony and Bandai-Namco.
Vagrant Story, you guys.
They've been doing this shit since Armored Core first came out and only now people are complaining?
>>342135312
DeS and BB were the only real innovators in the series
>>342141852
So you're saying it uses almost identical mechanics to Dark Souls therefore it's Dark Souls even though it has absolutely no relation in narrative and all of the finer points of said mechanics are actually different
Sure I guess Xenogears and Chrono Trigger are the same series too huh
>>342138230
So this is what all the 90s kid talk about. Thank god the Xbox 360 was my first console.
>>342142081
Demon's Souls and Dark Souls have absolutely no narrative connection and yet people lump them together as the "Souls series" because they're essentially mechanically identical aside from a few "finer points." I don't understand why that's outlandish to do for Bloodborne just because it doesn't have the word "souls" in the fucking title.
>>342135312
because the souls meme's magic lives on, and they make huge bucks on it.
>>342140598
>Invented the stamina bar being the crux of all action
>What is Monster Hunter
>>342135312
console controls limit possible gameplay combinations, all demon's souls did was go back to the roots of what gaming is (abusing the hell out of a game engine is a legitimate skill and the game is based around that premise, you git gud as you play, unlike 98% of games where you hold forward and press a without the slightest chance of fail)
I wouldn't say they've been innovative, in fact the changes they made in dark souls 2 are dropped for 3, which is hailed as a masterpiece for copying 1
>>342142375
>THE CRUX OF ALL ACTION
Big monsters don't have stamina bars.
Little monsters don't have stamina bars.
Only the player character has a stamina bar.
In Dark Souls, everything has a stamina bar, or at the very least a set stamina amount that works the same way.
>>342142296
this
I've never played either game, but I assume both games are precisely the same mechanic wise, so it wouldn't really matter which I played to experience that sort of gameplay. They don't differ enough outwardly for me to even differentiate between them.
>>342142402
This, Dishonored drives me up a fucking wall
>>342140449
Anon, I was more just sad that the yhorm fight was a gimmicky mess than I was that the storm ruler was there.
>don't use storm ruler and he's 20 literal minutes of tedium that could three shot you at any moment if you fuck up.
>use the storm ruler and he's suddenly made of paper. There is no winning
>>342142081
>no relation in narrative
>he doesn't know about the visions Aldrich had
Boy
>>342139110
it's not the first, but even the first LoZ had death / respawning system
heavy meele combat: any early rpg
>>342135312
>Bloodborne isn't innovative
Stopped reading there, closed thread, shut off power from breaker and start hitting my wife in the face with my open hand
>>342143150
How exactly does it innovate?
>>342136594
>Art change
>No shields
>More diverse move sets
>Reduced stamina usage
Not really.
>>342143252
>no estus
>fast paced combat that doesn't rely on shielding up
>brand new universe with no ties to demon's and dark's universes or rehashed bosses
>trick weapons
>firearms
>blood and miscarried babbys
>randomized dungeons
>>342135312
>no pc release
I'm triggered.
>>342142887
He dreamt of water, big deal.
>>342135312
We want more of the same, since it's perfect.
>>342143252
Have you heard about Hunter Tools?
Or maybe about Trick Weapons?
Or maybe about Blood system?
>>342142493
the monsters do have stamina, mong
I only really liked Demons and Bloodborne.
There is something off about Dark series, it's the movement it feels floaty.
Anyone else feels the same?
>>342135312
mfw OP claims Demon´s Souls as the original of the series and everyone starts bitching about Kings Field.
My god
Everything that defines the Souls series started in Demon´s Souls. and that defining elements are not 3rd person dungeon exploring, melee combat, hard bossess or high difficulty, for fuck sake. That core elements can be see in TON other games. Is like saying: KINGSFIELD DIDN´T INVENT NOTHING, GOSTHS´N GOBLINS IS THE ORIGINAL SHIT!
Making up a game revolving around harvesting souls, dying and being a ghost, being summoned by other players or summon dead players, seeing the last fucking moment of the life of other players while walking, reading notes around the place made by other warriors...That´s what Demon´s Souls put over the table, and that´s what From is doing over and over again since.
>>342144820
I liked DaS3 more than Bloodborne, partly because it actually felt like a sequel to DeS more than anything else.
>>342143639
A used PS3 costs fucking pennies, man
>>342145041
I'll go for that, I guess.
>>342135312
Bloodborne. However, I do want to see DeS remastered for PS4.
>>342145283
Do it. Although it may feel a little clunky after playing later entries in the series, DeS is really good.
Reminder that other than soul memory and shit map design DS2 has the most well designed and varied combat that was actually monitored by the devs to keep it balancedExcept for buffing katanas 4 times
>>342145676
Turns out it's as dirt cheap as I expected in my shithole of a country. I think I'll just wait to ps3 titles to be emulatable.
>>342140330
Funny, playing Doom and I realized a lot of that combat feels like Bloodborne. If you get hit the best way to get health back is to attack an enemy and take it from them. Probably was not inspired by BB but definitely created the same engaged type of combat.
>>342140110
To his point though the primary aspects of Demon's Souls single player are all layed out in the kingsfield series, so in that aspect it's not "innovative".
But I'll give you DeS is a thousand times better put together than KF* even if it isn't the inventor of its ideas.
Asynchronous Multiplayer in a real time environment is objectively a big deal though, and that's all DeS.
>>342143574
>no estus
How is going from the objetively superior estus system back to consumable healing items that you have to farm for, innovation?
>fast paced combat that doesn't rely on shielding up
Removing all playstyles but flippy fast dex man is also not innovation
>brand new universe with no ties to demon's and dark's universes or rehashed bosses
Not really innovative either
>trick weapons
I'll give you that
>firearms
They're just ranged parry tools
>blood and miscarried babbys
>randomized dungeons
Not innovation
The only Souls game after DeS that innovates is DaS, it introduced bonfires and the whole estus, humanity, kindling system, all combined in an interconnected world. Which is why classic Souls will always be better than nu-Souls
>>342136617
It improved on King's Field in every way. All the games do improve on the ones before, they just don't always improve a LOT. Dark Souls 2 took a few steps backwards but it introduced a lot of new great ideas. Dark Souls 3 got rid of the bad ideas.
Bloodborne went out on a tangent by changing the setting and it was amazing because of it.
>>342139110
Ignore them, some people just don't think and would rather go with what their gut tells them than their logic.
>>342140449
Are you pissed the moonlight greatsword exists in King's field, demon's, dark, and bloodborne too?
>>342141141
>I was pissed when I found the maiden in black.
But you didn't find the Maiden in Black in 3. You found fire keepers.
>>342148940
Only when it's awkwardly forced in, ala Bloodborne DLC. Most of its appearances don't matter or don't draw special attention to it, so it works fine.
>>342149420
Man you're the most anti-fun person I've met.
